So the erase command is only a issue for us, as a locksmith, within the 93 series chips. The others you mentioned like the 95 and 24 series should be a safer read due to the lack of erase command. It will help in the decision to read in circuit or not. This is very good info, Thank you
Rotated SOIC will be labeled in the package with letter "X". Example : 93LC66A (labeled in package) is the common one we find. Whereas 93LC66AX (labeled in package) is the rotated SOIC. Hope this helps. Nice video.
Thanks for the information. If you can read the part number and there are suffix characters which follow you can determine what device parameters (speed, temp range, package, etc.) the characters represent from the device data sheet. Different manufacturers may assign different suffix characters for different parameters. Always check the data sheet to be sure.
I believe you are correct however with multilayer boards with plated through holes pin arrangement should not be an issue. It would only make sense with inexpensive single or double sided boards (brown phenolic) without through hold plating such as a consumer product where cost is the primary concern.
Thanks for the video (and you others; you're really cranking them out!). I recently saw an old post on a locksmithing / cluster repair forum where somebody asked if "shorting out the crystal" would be sufficient when reading/writing to an EEPROM while in circuit. I didn't understand what the point was, which is why I clicked on your video hoping you might shed some light. While you didn't answer that question, you did answer many others that I didn't know I had. So far I guess I've been very lucky and the only issues I've had have been poor connections due to conformal coating and mixing up wires from the programmer to the chip due to my own ineptitude. Anyway, my question is about the crystal (which I assume means the quartz oscillator). Does shorting the crystal comment make any sense to you? And if so, how would it help? Once again, thanks for taking the time to make the videos and sharing your knowledge.
The crystal is an external component which sets the operating frequency of the processor. If you short the crystal the processor will not run. It is an option to prevent processor interference. It does not prevent processor loading. The reason I did not address shorting the crystal is that there are many types of crystal packages; some are easy to identify and some are not. Also sometimes the function of the crystal is internal to the processor package and cannot be shorted.
I’m seriously considering ordering your automotive kit #2 for our repair shop. However, we have a 2000 Subaru outback with a bad PCM but I noticed there is no EEPROM on the board. Would this EEPROM be integrated with the microcontroller?
It's possible but unlikely. If the vehicle is a 2000 it's unlikely that the eeprom is integrated with the microcontroller. Look closely; it may be an eeprom in a non-SOIC package. Perhaps an MSOP or TSSOP part.
Well, I think everything on board is SOIC. There’s only two chips that resemble an EEPROM and one is located near the microprocessor and the other one is on a different part of the board. The problem is the numbers don’t seem to give me any clues when I do a Google search. The chip near the microprocessor says 5223 across the top line and then 0Z1 across the bottom line. The other chip says 5233 across the top line and 0Z8 across the bottom line. They’re both 8 leg SOICs. It’s very confusing because it’s difficult to find information on these chips. I really do enjoy your videos though. I think this would be a very cost-effective way to repurpose these salvage yard computer modules.
Our kits do an excellent job of cloning a defective module into a salvage unit. If you wish, send a photo of the assembly ( I need to be able to read the part numbers) and I'll try to help. Send as an attachment to our email (arlabs@fuse.net).
Hello, I have a question. What are all the EEPROM chips that you can read In Circuit "Safely" without causing any damage to the Eeprom chip and what are all the EEPROM Chips that are preferred to read Out Circuit (De-Soldering and reading on Bench with tool designed to read out circuit. I know many in the field read in circuit with clip and many times cause damage to the data. So to summarize my question, what eeproms can you read in circuit without worrying about loss of data and what eeproms are meant to be read out circuit for safety on not losing data in circuit. Thank you for sharing & God Bless
There are three families of serial eeproms commonly found in modules. These are the 93 (microwire), 25/95 (SPI) and 24 (I2C). All can be read in-circuit as long as the programmer creates a suitable environment based on the assembly design. To directly answer your question, the 93 family is the most unforgiving when attempting in-circuit access. This is due to the possibility of the part executing an ERASE command due to data collision.
@@andromedaresearchlabs7826I have ar32 going to read a 93cl66 chip from alarm module would u say reading in circuit with ar32 is safe or hit or miss better to remove eeprom?
@@andromedaresearchlabs7826 ok will do .. from the comments prior u said 93 chip capable of erasing itself incircuit and best in circuit I’m assuming you probably meant with other readers ? Just don’t want to scramble data on this chip since I have no way of recovering but I’ll try those setting
@@automotivediagnosticsrepai9006 The difference between in-circuit and out-of-circuit is that if the processor runs at the same time as the programmer you may get data collision which may corrupt the part. That's why we lower the voltage to the part. It prevents the processor from running while still letting the eeprom to function.
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for your time and effort.
So the erase command is only a issue for us, as a locksmith, within the 93 series chips. The others you mentioned like the 95 and 24 series should be a safer read due to the lack of erase command. It will help in the decision to read in circuit or not.
This is very good info,
Thank you
Yes, the 93 series parts are the only family which includes an erase command.
Excellent tutorial. You are one of a kind. Thank you so much 🙏
Thanks. Glad you found the information helpful.
Rotated SOIC will be labeled in the package with letter "X".
Example : 93LC66A (labeled in package) is the common one we find. Whereas 93LC66AX (labeled in package) is the rotated SOIC.
Hope this helps. Nice video.
Thanks for the information. If you can read the part number and there are suffix characters which follow you can determine what device parameters (speed, temp range, package, etc.) the characters represent from the device data sheet. Different manufacturers may assign different suffix characters for different parameters. Always check the data sheet to be sure.
The reason they would want to rotate pins is because of restricted or inefficient board design, I would think. Or to mitigate crossing traces
I believe you are correct however with multilayer boards with plated through holes pin arrangement should not be an issue. It would only make sense with inexpensive single or double sided boards (brown phenolic) without through hold plating such as a consumer product where cost is the primary concern.
Thanks for the video (and you others; you're really cranking them out!). I recently saw an old post on a locksmithing / cluster repair forum where somebody asked if "shorting out the crystal" would be sufficient when reading/writing to an EEPROM while in circuit. I didn't understand what the point was, which is why I clicked on your video hoping you might shed some light. While you didn't answer that question, you did answer many others that I didn't know I had. So far I guess I've been very lucky and the only issues I've had have been poor connections due to conformal coating and mixing up wires from the programmer to the chip due to my own ineptitude. Anyway, my question is about the crystal (which I assume means the quartz oscillator). Does shorting the crystal comment make any sense to you? And if so, how would it help? Once again, thanks for taking the time to make the videos and sharing your knowledge.
The crystal is an external component which sets the operating frequency of the processor. If you short the crystal the processor will not run. It is an option to prevent processor interference. It does not prevent processor loading. The reason I did not address shorting the crystal is that there are many types of crystal packages; some are easy to identify and some are not. Also sometimes the function of the crystal is internal to the processor package and cannot be shorted.
I’m seriously considering ordering your automotive kit #2 for our repair shop. However, we have a 2000 Subaru outback with a bad PCM but I noticed there is no EEPROM on the board. Would this EEPROM be integrated with the microcontroller?
It's possible but unlikely. If the vehicle is a 2000 it's unlikely that the eeprom is integrated with the microcontroller. Look closely; it may be an eeprom in a non-SOIC package. Perhaps an MSOP or TSSOP part.
Well, I think everything on board is SOIC. There’s only two chips that resemble an EEPROM and one is located near the microprocessor and the other one is on a different part of the board. The problem is the numbers don’t seem to give me any clues when I do a Google search. The chip near the microprocessor says 5223 across the top line and then 0Z1 across the bottom line. The other chip says 5233 across the top line and 0Z8 across the bottom line. They’re both 8 leg SOICs. It’s very confusing because it’s difficult to find information on these chips. I really do enjoy your videos though. I think this would be a very cost-effective way to repurpose these salvage yard computer modules.
Our kits do an excellent job of cloning a defective module into a salvage unit. If you wish, send a photo of the assembly ( I need to be able to read the part numbers) and I'll try to help. Send as an attachment to our email (arlabs@fuse.net).
Hello, I have a question. What are all the EEPROM chips that you can read In Circuit "Safely" without causing any damage to the Eeprom chip and what are all the EEPROM Chips that are preferred to read Out Circuit (De-Soldering and reading on Bench with tool designed to read out circuit. I know many in the field read in circuit with clip and many times cause damage to the data. So to summarize my question, what eeproms can you read in circuit without worrying about loss of data and what eeproms are meant to be read out circuit for safety on not losing data in circuit. Thank you for sharing & God Bless
There are three families of serial eeproms commonly found in modules. These are the 93 (microwire), 25/95 (SPI) and 24 (I2C). All can be read in-circuit as long as the programmer creates a suitable environment based on the assembly design. To directly answer your question, the 93 family is the most unforgiving when attempting in-circuit access. This is due to the possibility of the part executing an ERASE command due to data collision.
@@andromedaresearchlabs7826I have ar32 going to read a 93cl66 chip from alarm module would u say reading in circuit with ar32 is safe or hit or miss better to remove eeprom?
@@automotivediagnosticsrepai9006 We do an excellent job of in-circuit reading. Set the ASERSM1A to LV-3.6 for best results.
@@andromedaresearchlabs7826 ok will do .. from the comments prior u said 93 chip capable of erasing itself incircuit and best in circuit I’m assuming you probably meant with other readers ? Just don’t want to scramble data on this chip since I have no way of recovering but I’ll try those setting
@@automotivediagnosticsrepai9006 The difference between in-circuit and out-of-circuit is that if the processor runs at the same time as the programmer you may get data collision which may corrupt the part. That's why we lower the voltage to the part. It prevents the processor from running while still letting the eeprom to function.