It have a lot of sense and just by knowing how fast he was, there is no way on argue it. I just do sim-racing for now, sure I will be trying this technique later today.
I have done it instinctively for years on the road even before I knew Senna drove that way (I always get told I drive a car like I stole it). It helps me balance the car better and by stabbing the throttle, you reach the limit of adhesion back under control, back over the edge and back under control, also you are on flatout throttle earlier.
I always raced karts this way. To me it just felt natural and more responsive. I'm no Senna though! JPs telemetry trace is telling. Senna's blippy throttle progression, if you fit a curve to it, probably exceeds JPs throttle progression and that's where he makes time. For me I think the mechanism somehow changes the hysteresis characteristic of the tire very dynamically as he maintains mid corner speed and builds it through the exit. Would be interesting to compare and contrast Schumachers technique in similar era cars!
4 года назад+73
As you watch documentary on Senna when he was with Williams he is talking about inconsistencies with a car, that it understeer and oversteer during a corner. Probably his technique stopped working with new cars, what do you think?
“The normal technique on corner entry is to keep as smooth as possible,” explains Takeo Kiuchi, Senna ‘s Honda race engineer of 1990-92. “But Ayrton would use the throttle to put more torque through the tyre and change the yaw, a little bit each time. This way he could get a better trajectory before the apex without as much steering. When we did our simulations, usually the actual time a driver set was slightly slower than the simulation; with Ayrton, he was nearly always slightly quicker. That was because we couldn’t model what he was doing with the throttle and how it affected the car.” -motorsport mag 2004
@@Sandouras Firstly, I'm sure Ayrton Senna was extremely experienced and understands how his car behaves in order to do this, he wasn't doing it for shits and giggles. He found a way to make it go faster that was not documented much anywhere at that time. Everyone was learning the conventional way to go smoothly on the accelerator. He was blipping that pedal like an inclining PWM function as shown in the video. It's like a smoother average of an incline in a way maybe (see average of PWM function versus average of a curve, maybe like a sine curve or something at each point in time, not the total). I would like to say it is more linear in the changes of acceleration, which is useful in a corner with the centrifugal acceleration that is happening and the rolling differences of the tires, it does need something smoother. Now, you said something about destroying tires. Senna wasn't destroying tires. If to destroy the tire, I think the wheel would be spinning as he is doing this technique wrongly, which stated in the video, it would be slower. But the fact that he was faster, he was doing this technique perfectly. So, general physics would say if he was faster then his grip was good. If we look at the signal he was giving to the accelerator, it looks like an inclining PWM function, that in itself is already hard to do by a human, in such short amount of time. There is a good portion of how much blipping is too much or too little, so I think he was doing it perfectly. I mean he was beating Alain Prost by a huge amount in those days, he must be doing it correctly and I wouldn't need to question his technique. He definitely found the solution and we are looking at it right now realizing his technique which is his approach. About the turbo car thing, I think he did learn it then, but I would argue that he did not start off his skills being in a turbo car, he most likely learned them through karting in rainy days. He was definitely not a specialist in a way, he drove every single race car fast. We always like to think that way, because ultimately human beings are really good at specializing. Senna once said this. “And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.” (Ayrton Senna, 22 years old) . I'm quite intrigued to his approach to constantly actively and abstractly think through racing. He used the pedals like instruments. He never settled to what was the status quo or fall trap to style. He was constantly pushing the envelope and actively thinking which makes him come up with deeper solutions. When he finished pushing that envelope and he realized it was his own ideas regressing his goals, he looked again like a feedback loop to newer approaches of what was unprecedented to achieve something nobody that could achieve. When he realized there was not one ultimate approach, and by looking at something deeper that nobody dared to try, perfecting it, then that made him the god of racing.
@@Sandouras - in short, the end defied the means. First off, he wasn't holding a drift... it was just enough slip to gain a couple degrees of rotation in the turn. I would say the difference in tire wear was not only negligible, but may have even preserved the leading edges by decreasing the sideloading on exit.
That reminds of a Nigel Roebuck quote: "If you see Prost driving a Formula 1 car, you'd think you could do it yourself. If you see Senna driving the same car, you'd abosolutely knew you couldn't".
I admire the rivalry between the two. Raw talent versus the operating mind, smooth vs strange, aggressive vs conservative. They both mastered their respective driving styles, putting them in the same car made for an unreal era of both F1 and racing altogether.
@@maximum.p I beg you not to make this thread another flame war between the factions of Senna and Prost. The question of "who is the best driver" ever is already controversial enough, but I think history has told both driver's stories well enough. Prost won more through less risk, and Senna will forever be remembered for his once-in-a-century talent.
@@sibeksibowski2126 My 1950's sports car had that, traction control, abs, stability control, you name it. Senna is famous for overtaking 5 cars in a lap, I passed 4 in one corner in the wet. Senna is also famous for colliding with other drivers..
Yeah that what i think too, that that was Senna’s version of TCS. I use to do this technique in Gran Turismo when i play online and yes i can get out of a curve much faster.
Rubber generates more net grip in stick-slip mode - well known. Senna probably heard this from someone and tried to make use of it. But I'm pretty sure the tractive force would need to change many times per wheel revolution to optimise the effect. So, theoretically, he could have been faster if the throttle had been pulsed much faster.
@@danielfaria4949 watch some of his interviews, a few times he is asked why he loves the rain and he said I don't, I hate it, but it is my job as a racing driver to be able to race in any condition.
You can´t be faster than the machine that can make you move faster. You can take it to its absolute limits, wich is what senna did. The other drivers where near the 95%
@@andrepduarte Exactly, Audi S1 drivers like Walter Röhrl did exactly the same in order to keep their cars under control, because that Audi would break traction in almost every gear on tarmac stages (it didn't matter that much on gravel or snow, because then it was always sliding). You can see ample video's of Röhrl's feet dancing on brake and accelerator and still having to correct with the steering just to keep it going in a somewhat straight line.
This sounds almost like ABS in reverse. Rather than rapidly tapping the brakes to decrease stopping distance, he was tapping to get constant feedback from the car/tires and be on the very knife edge of traction at all times. This is why he was such a wizard in the wet, he was able to find the absolute limit of traction and keep the car right at that limit longer than most if not any driver ever.
Some other legendary drivers would go over the limit to intentionally make the car slide slightly to make the car turn more, so that the car is lined up with the exit earlier...meaning accelerating out of the corner earlier and more aggressively.
Hello Driver61, here's what Honda's Takeo Kiuchi said about the Senna throttle blipping technique: "He had a way of jabbing the throttle that people thought was all about keeping up the boost pressure of the turbo engines. Maybe it started that way but he was still using it even with the normally aspirated engines..He would use the throttle to put more torque through the tyre and change the yaw, a little it each time before the tyre stalled and slid. This way he could get a better trajectory before the apex without as much steering. He was the only driver I ever saw doing this."
Simon Stiel I get the feeling he turned the car with the rear tires instead of the front. Similar to the rally drivers rotate their cars. And I have a feeling his early carting days may have been where he started, as mentioned in the video.
A technique for racing your fastest is to rotate the car by late trail braking creating oversteer at the Apex and exiting with slight countersteer to correct trajectory under full throttle.
Exactly, more of a rally technique. The fellow in the video gets it wrong by saying he did this while exiting. You can hear from Monza it was only on entry.
@David Mc not only he donated a large part of his fortune... The Ayrton Senna Institute managed by his sister helps a lot of poor children until today.
@@FF-jf8yg You do know the Season Senna died Schumi won the World Title and he said that if Senna didnt died he would be the Champion instead of him.. Senna was using a Worst Car, Unsafe and not even Senna was Upset about the Williams-Renault, The Boss of the Team said the same "Car is bad". With all those things he had a chance to win against the Cheaters Benneton team (Schumi Team). And that Team was almost perfect.
@@FF-jf8yg No! Actually last week was released a study that says that Senna is the faster driver of the last 40 years! They compared the difference between the 1st and the 2nd of all races and Senna had more time between than Schumacher or hamilton or nobody else! Even Schumacher said on a video that senna is the number one f1 driver ever :)
Would Senna have been faster if he drove like everyone else? Michael Johnson was asked a similar question about his unconventional sprinting technique. His response? "If I ran like everyone else, I'd be back there with them".
Right? Such a silly question, I see this all the time, someone does something different than the norm and succeed, and instead of saying he succeeded becacuse of that, they say, if he did it the normal way he would succeed even more, that's just bullshit. He succeeded because he was different.
I think the question was about driving the newer F1s when they didn't have the turbo anymore, because his technique clearly had an advantage for driving cars with turbo.
Senna também seguiu na poeira de muitos pilotos! E não percebia nada de afinação de chassis para a corrida. Correu muitas vezes com o carro de reserva de Alain Prost (que também aprendeu com Niki Lauda) - Que foi o piloto que melhor dava os dados aos Eng.s que construíram o MP4. Quantos anos correu o MP4? 10 anos!
@@parcidiooliveira9943 Senna e o Dale Earnhardt Sr da Nascar eram farinha do mesmo saco, mesma tecnica, corriam com tudo, eram mestres da Intimidação, e ainda se respeitavam mesmo sendo de categorias diferentes. E por pena e ironia, ambos se foram da mesma forma. Se o Senna tivesse vivo e seguido o que ele tinha em mente graças a politicagem maldita da F1 que tirou ate Nigel Mansell por dois anos com ele vencendo na Indy, em 96 ele estaria nos EUA correndo pela CART/Formula Mundial e Talvez a NASCAR pela Penske, Graças ao Emerson Fittipaldi e o Dale Senior que admiravam ele.
Senna feels the traction all the time, he knows the full car behavior, the tires, the engine, and himself as one piece, all together. We miss him as a hero. Regards from Brazil
Man! this is exacly what i think and why i admire him. Even tho in actual days his skill is not so important and he would probably lose to some top level drivers nowadays. He was still probably the best overall and complete driver cause with this tecnique doesnt need any systems incorporated. He was also a very great tuner. And when you are the best without any systems and helps you can be spetacular on anything even if you are not the best on some specific cars. What i mean. Maybe Senna would be slightly slower in actual cars than the top drivers, but he would stomp them in old cars without driving assistances.
My thoughts also. It is very common to hear drivers drive like that on paved ovals. I did it in an over powered Mustang. However it's not smooth and rarely fast. Sena was a master. In SCCA drivers school they introduced us to the concept of "puller" vs "pusher." The manner in which we react to G loading while gripping the wheel. Do you push the wheel or pull it. They told us it didn't seem to matter which style was used, and most drivers don't even realize which style they use until they think about it. According to them 80% of drivers are pullers. They then added, "However Sena and Mario Andretti were both pushers." indicating there may be something to the pusher style. I payed attention on track and could immediately tell I am a puller.
As someone who done a similar technique my entire racing career, it's because the blips are short enough, that it enables you to feel out the limit of traction. For me this started as a karting technique for finding grip on slick racing surfaces, in the wet, and works just as well in the dry. It's not really something I have ever thought about until now, but if you do lose traction, because of the pedaling, you don't generally lose it for long, and it generally doesn't wildly affect the car other than to give you more rotation. The less responsive the motor, the longer the chops can be. Because if you look at the comparison of his data vs the test drivers, you can just see how much sooner he is able to find where the limit of grip is and is able to use the throttle. Just my two cents as someone who just naturally started doing this.
Bro I just did this on my debut ride and race in open category rental karting race 2 days ago! I'm very glad to say that i managed to gain higher revs and exit speeds thru every mid corner while moving onto the straights... BEST PART IS I started LAST on the grid and won first place 😂🎉
Here is what I think he did. When you are feathering the throttle to not lose traction, you are most of the time under the threshold of spinning the tire. And in case you spin the tire you lose a lot of time regaining traction. The tires will grip more with a little speed higher compared to the tarmac. I think this way, you can be more consistent if you have a fast foot as Senna did. You don't overspin the tire a lot and hence can be faster than smoothing into the accelerator. I have never raced an F1 car and is just my theory from SIM racing so this could be as reliable as my Timmy Hilfiger watch...
They use this physic in motorcycle racing and engine design. Yamaha Tenere has a trick 270 deg crossplane flat 2 cylinder engine. The 450 deg crank rotation gap where there was no combustion allowed the tire to regain grip after ''slipping'' having a burst of power from the successive 270 deg combustions. Usefull especially in offroad. You could go further with this thinking in that offroad motorcycles run less cylinders for this reason, sacrificing possible power output from a 4 cylinder engine. Low end torque plays in this also. The strait plane twins would actually have a bigger ""no combustion gap'' of 540 deg, but I suspect the excess vibrations and balancing issues killed this engine design and rendering it obsolete.
from a motorcycle's perspective on a slippery surface, you can squeeze the throttle on and off quickly and frequently to get a better feel of the grip on the rear tire and then to point to the direction you want to go. the same technique can be done on a cart around a corner. maybe Senna developed this technique as he progressed through different cars and race divisions and already perfected it when he got to f1.
Even the drift king uses the blipping but in an opposite way. Imo senna was using the blip to see the edge of traction and keep it there. Where DK uses it to keep the sticky tires on drift cars from locking up and getting full traction.
I've been looking at this (and listening to it) for years and I'm always amazed at how many things are missed in these analysis. What I see is that 1- He releases the brake long before the apex (and switches his right foot to the throttle, he actually reaches the apex ON the throttle. Clearly seen on the NSX video) 2- Most of the blipping happens BEFORE the apex (between the brake release and the apex) 3- On fast corners, by the time he reaches the apex he applies full throttle (most times even before the steering wheel is straight) 4- On short corners he is already full throttle on corner exit (as opposed to the 2nd Spoon at Suzuka, for example) 5- He doesn't always do the blipping at the same rate/speed. He instinctively adjusts it to the amount of grip at that given moment. 6- Seems to me he blips at a more rapid rate on fast corners, but during a shorter amount of time and he doesn't lift completely. The blip happens between 60-100% throttle. 7- On slow corners (Check Monaco or Montreal hairpins, or La Source at Spa) he blips between 0-40% throttle and usually continues blipping well into the corner's exit depending on how tight the exit is.
When I raced Mini-Z RC cars, which were basically miniature go karts, some time ago , I was with some locals that were world cup drivers. I watched them drive. They would pulse the throttle. They set their chassis to understeer so much you can't even go around the track without skidding the tail. They called it point and shoot. They pulsed and braked around the corner. Use the pulse to shift the weight back and forth and position the car towards the exit, then full throttle down the straight. Pulse turned out to be the fastest way around. I tried the smooth corner, nope, too slow.
"He instinctively adjusts it to the amount of grip at that given moment." As Martin Brundlle said in the Senna Top Gear episode: "he had a God-given talent that i haven't witnessed anywhere else, a sixth sense of where the grip was before he turned into a corner."
@@sugarnads you sir have no idea what Senna represents in Brazil, he wasn't just a fantastic driver, he created charity intuitions to help poor children in Brazil out of his own pocket, which still exists today and his sister still manage, he had charisma, passion and always made sure to carry the flag when he won, that is why when he died the entire country cried. Piquet and Fittipaldi were excellent drivers but arrogant ego centrists and had done nothing to the country in terms of charity, having said that, Senna is the biggest hero in Brazil, even greater than Pele.
I get you like the guy, but "proud of your country" for what? You didn't do anything to help the guy, don't try to steal Senna's achievements as if Brazil in general had any merit in it. It was Senna and his team, including mentors and even sponsors.
@@trinidad17 Im brazillian and I completely agree with you. It's cool to have a driver or a great sportsman from your country, it may give you motivation or you can like him because you share the same culture but "being proud" doesn"t make any sense.
I wouldn't say that every genius is crazy. Take Albert Einstein, for instance. He wasn't crazy, however, his mind was at a level it redefined what it means to be sane.
@@mzxrules - Judging from what I see on talk shows these days that wasn't him being crazy, that was him just again being way ahead of his time. Now there is a wonderful story, almost certainly apocryphall but who knows. One day, the great man came down very late for dinner and others had already given up on him and eaten. He looked at the table with the dirty dishes and said "Oh I'm sorry, I have forgotten that I already ate". With that, he turned around and went back to his work. So yeah ........ 😆
@@sam21462 That is a full crap of comment my dude. Crazy by in itself is a stamp that you are way out of deviation in your society standard.... as well a genious too. If back then he was not in society standard and has those euphoric and "way ahead of time" thinking, it is indeed being "special". Peasant call it crazy! Stop denying it that he is indeed "crazy" during his time! Even in today's standard he is a bit off!
@@slothypunk - So which "society standard" (Whatever that means as there is no "standard" in societies.)? Should we judge him by his Jewish heritage and against the other Jews around him? Should we judge him by his nationality? I mean he certainly seems pretty sane when compared to the Nazi movement all around him (before he bailed on the "society standard" of his home country). Should we use the physics community of the world as the benchmark for his "society standard"? Which "society"? What "standard"? In truth, there is no such thing as "society standard". Feel free to prove me wrong. Why not start with defining for us what is the "society standard" for Americans?
If he’s already “pulsing” the throttle through the corner, I think he’s better prepared to let off when he’s losing traction as he feels it happening. He’s already clearly in a different league than even other F1 drivers in terms of his reflexes, so I think he’s feeling the edge of traction and that dictates what he’s doing with the throttle pulses. Given his unbelievable ability in the wet in F1 cars with no traction control, I don’t think he’s upsetting the car in any way with his technique. The lack of grip in the rain would expose that flaw if it were true.
You clearly know nothing of racing. Only casual fans or people who don't know anything about racing think it's cause of reaction times. It's about the feel and the technique used. Some guy who has insane reactions isn't going to be some crazy good driver, lol, this is such a myth that I cringe when people think drivers are fast because of reaction times. Reaction times are important if you suddenly get the car snap out on you or something like that but you don't need superhuman reaction times to be Senna or Schumi or Alonso or Hamilton, you need incredible feel and talent (talent comprising of many different traits but superhuman reactions is low on the list). Most drivers on the grid will have similiar reaction times. The top drivers don't have miraculous reaction times compared to the other drivers throughout the grid, they have great feel and skill and technique.
@@vincer9960 you completely lost the point of his comment, he didnt say that he was better because he had better reaction, he just said he had crazy good reaction times, go ahead and read it again before roasting someone over nothing.
If I was a driver currently qualifying on pole at monaco and Hamilton was my team mate, I might use a related idea at mirabeau to make sure I didnt lock up and bring out a yellow flag.
Ahh yes. And Prost beat him consistently. Even when honda were giving senna better engines. The only reason he won the championship in 88 was a retarded points system. Prost scored 2 more race wins and about 20 points more than him that year. But the point system handed the title to mr argybargy. And winning a title by deliberately taking out the only person who could beat you? Should have been banned for life. What a hero. Dangerous to everyone around him. Even SENNA acknowledged that Prost was a better driver than him. You dopes. You think driving like a lunatic is admirable. Its repulsive. He did shit thst anyone else would have been black flagged for. Him and that other knuckledragger villeneuve used to get away with idiotic passes. Jim Clarke tho. Fkn legend.
I just came here to express my deep love and respect to Ayrton Senna. He was one of the truly illuminated ppl in this world. He will be forever missed.
He was my idol as a kid, his fatal crash happened when I was 10 years old. I will never forget when my father came into my bedroom to tell me the news right after he had heard on the radio that hehad passed at Imola.
Absolutely amazing. I have always been fascinated with Senna’s driving. His technique is different, and unorthodox. But, man did he make it work! When you watch him in qualifying mode, it’s like he was truly a part of the car and a man almost possessed. He could have easily won two or three more championships. For me, F1 has never been the same after we lost him. I still miss him😢
So true about him in qualifying mode - in fact most of my super favourite memories of him come from qualifying ; sometimes I knew not even *him thought he could make it (he used to comment before) : and even though - he made it 🔥
Yes, this is very true and in reality, Ayrton officially should have won the F1 World Title 4 times. In 1989 Ayrton was disqualified in the final race (Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka) because Ballestre benefited Prost, where both crashed and Ayrton went on to win that race by overtaking Nanini, in the very last corner after having been 50 seconds behind because of the crash and subsequent pit stop. He would have been champion but after getting the 1st place. he got disqualified after the race ended. So Ayrton really won 1988;89;90 and 1991. And would have surely had another 2 or 3 championships before retiring.
I raced karts for about 10 years as a child into early adulthood, and I always (naturally) used the same exact technique. Nobody ever taught it to me as a kid, I just found that it worked and I was able to find traction where others weren't. Where they slid all around the track (especially on wet days) I managed to somehow make the kart stick better while quickly tapping/vibrating the throttle, and to this day I do the same thing in road cars. I've never been in a crash so I don't think it's dangerous, but I'm not really sure why it works either, I just know it does... It's a feeling, an instinct, and it's actually saved me before while aquaplaning. I'm sure Senna felt a similar way about it.
I knew a couple of drivers who drove like that, along with short jabbing of the steering when they were driving very fast thru corners on the road in the seventies. [This was in the Caribbean where we could get away with things like that:-) ]. Anyway I always thought that it was a precaution to keep the car unsteady in the corner to be able to change direction for unexpected stuff such as, bumpy surfaces and potholes, parked vehicles etc. Sort of like split step in tennis (sort of). I now think differently after seeing this.
The trick to survive aquaplanning is zero inputs during aquaplanning, if you know where the puddle is, do what you need (turn, slow down, build speed) BEFORE hitting it. Blipping the throttle on a puddle is not going to help in any way, it can only start to build up yaw due to uneven water levels on both sides. And the trick to be a good driver in open roads is to NEVER get anywhere near the grip limits.
2nd try. It's all about settling the vehicle, keeping weight on or off the rubber that matters at the time. Idealy saving tires with smooth inputs will prepare the car for "what's coming," vs reacting to what's happening. Senna seemed to keep the difference between the two smaller than I've ever seen if that makes sense. Amazing, to pull that off in those turbo stick shift monsters back then...sometimes add rain 😲
It's weird. I just learned to do it over the years of regular road driving too and found that, even on regular roads, but especially in the wet, the car felt more balanced.
Sennas magic was that he could take the car over its grip limit, causing wheels to slip, something that other drivers will lose a lot of time on. Senna however could dance the car through the curve with little to no time lost. His brain started forming these neuron bridges at age 7, creating a unique brain that by chance was controlling a naturally fast and agile, but also top trained, body. Unique man, he had no conscious technique, the perfect driver created by many biological coincidences. We will not see his like in our lifetime, the greatest driver and a great human being.
I saw Senna many times doing telegraphy with the engine and also notice his attention to get and modify ratio transmission from throttle pedal to the butterfly valves - was nice to see and hear. I remember when he asked after a lot of telemetry analysis modification in one Monza GP. than Saturday made and incredible and best lap time with circuit still in old configuration with 2 Lesmo bends done from 6 to 7th gear. Thanks to remember this peculiarity of this grate driver for me the best one with the best F1 cars of all time up to now.
A small flaw in the descriptive in the video: most of the weight transfer is NOT the result of the car pitching or squatting from suspension movements. The majority of the weight transfer is the result of balancing forces on the free body of the car with acceleration forces acting on the center of gravity. Even with with completely stiff suspension, there is still weight transfer to the rear when accelerating.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. Also he concludes that the speed of the blipping is so fast that it wouldn't have time to create pitch (and therefore weight transfer), so didn't upset the car, but then says if Senna did it in a modern car it would cause aerodynamic problems because it WOULD create pitch and would upset the car!
Exactly. The car pitches or squats BECAUSE of the weight transfer, not the other way around. Any time the car accelerates/decelerates or changes direction there will be a corresponding weight transfer regardless of whether the car has compliant suspension components or not.
I was about ten yo when this first happened: it was my second time trying go karting with my dad and his friends. At a certain point of the race, I lost my conscious of what I was doing, I was just racing, trying to make the best in every corner. Sure thing I was a kid among adults, did finish second last and there's no way I can ever compare mine skills with his. But the point of losing conscious is so real... nowadays I still go karting, and I just keep trying to beat my own lap times and overtaking drivers ahead, losing track of reality by entering that "driving frenzy". I wonder if that's more common that it seems.
An older comment now, but deserves a reply; I read an article a while back where a guy said he borrowed a cherry picker, to watch qualifying from above the fence, at 1 of the corners in Canada (From memory). He said every driver but Senna lifted for the corner, Senna took it flat out. After quali he was in the pits and Senna saw him, and recognised him, and said "Hey, you're the guy in the cherry picker". I think time really did slow down for him, when he was driving fast, somehow, in his mind
Man, I miss waking early in Brazil every Sunday to watch this man race as a kid he was my hero. Far out I don't think we will ever have someone on our sports like this man again. I hope his legacy is kept alive forever.
Don't use God's name in vain by saying Goddamn or even Holy Cow or OMG. Ur Breaking the second commandant!!!! Repent n believe!!!! In Jesus!!! He will surely forgive you 🙏!!!!!
but thats usually the case for every fast driver (and I don't mean exceptional fast like in terms of senna I mean just basically racedriver).... if you react you are not fast.. reaction is always slower then actioning (is that a word? )... otherwise you would be driven by the car... which is always a bad situation :D even just driving on the road... you act.. the car reacts... the thing is to do the right actions so the car react in the way you want...
"That reminds of a Nigel Roebuck quote: "If you see Prost driving a Formula 1 car, you'd think you could do it yourself. If you see Senna driving the same car, you'd abosolutely knew you " couldn't". POR DAVI MOURÃO
@SgtCrikey No shit. Do you expect 80-90's style of cars to last forever ? World usually tends to change as well as F1, so no wonder why cars look like Terminator. It's all due to technical progress.
@@thirdasian8541 I love the todays cars as much as every other F1 car, each has their own reason to be the best of its year. For todays car, it just amazes me how chaotic and strange the aeoro makes the cars, especially the bargeboards. I would lie if I would say I truly enjoy the current racing, without the L, V, M pair, it is alright to watch, but in general we had better years. The old cars are just maniaks and require balls of steel to drive. Driver rather would die by an impact into a tree than to burn. I also think both cars are hard and very difficult to drive in their own ways.
My theory is he was accelerating earlier and with more force but whereas a consistent application of throttle would put the car into a slide if it was too early or too forceful, a blip would only slide the car a little, giving feedback as to where the limit is but also, as a by product, helping rotation on an oversteery car which he definitely preferred.
Controle de tração natural meu amigo. Era talento puro. Eu tive o prazer de ver isso de perto. Natural traction control my friend. It was pure talent. I was pleased to see it up close.
Would have loved to see him race against Schumacher . Schumacher did the same technic to get some light oversteer on his cars to get faster around the corners.
I saw Senna drive in person several times. He was the greatest driver...ever! He would adjust very quickly to the kiddie cars in F1 they have these days and be at the top. It's misguided to say or infer otherwise. In the turbo age the fuel injectors would go to high pulsewidth to dump some fuel between shifts (200-300ms) to keep the turbocharger spinning at peak rpm. This is the backfire one sees in the old films. It was by design.
I would say, it's more of a test of the grip, every time he stomped on the throttle, he would get a feel of, if the car was having enough grip for him to floor it.
when he stomped on the throttle the car loses traction on the rear, so he basically could drift the car to a specific direction that he wanted and make the corners much, much, much faster
My take is that it is something rally drivers do all the time while cornering translated in Senna's F1 driving style 1 to keep the car in its power band 2 to break and add traction to rotate the car in the corner
it looks similar to using oscilation/vibration. If properly applied this might give more power or more grip in certain conditions. Though it's mainly theorethical ... except air intakes using standing wave and Senna dtiving style. Both seem impossible science fiction and both happen on a very rare ocassions.
Dear Driver61, you are looking for the horse while riding on it... The blip throttle technique in a corner allows to INcrease the AVERAGE speed midcorner WITHOUT running the risk to go over the limit with the rears for TOO LONG. The latter will end in an oversteer situation that will cost cornerspeed/laptime and could even end up in an oversteer that cannot be corrected anymore (crash). It is much harder to be ON the limit with increasing the throttle smoothly all the time throughout every corner again and again, because in XY% of the cases you will go over that fine line and face more or less oversteer. Senna's technique allowed the rears to regain full grip just in time a few times during the corner when there was no driving power on the rears at all. The same can be said of the frontwheels. When giving throttle intermittently, at the moment you give much throttle the rears (that do not steer and are always standing straight) want to power the car straigh ahead which pushes a car more into an understeer situation. However, when dropping off the throttle, this understeerfactor is completely gone at once, causing the frontwheels to "fully bite" again in the tarmac, causing the car to steer around with much more ease and 100% 'pure rolling' efficiency again. These two effects added up made Senna faster in a corner while sparing the tires because the tires were NOT driven on the limit all the time taking a corner. In the intermittent times he was off throttle he spared tyres, both front and rear. There was even a third factor. What Senna did can also be seen as "intermittently lifting" IN a corner instead of only lifting (and coasting) before a corner (which, as you know, saves fuel). When you are using less fuel on average than your competitors during a race, then you can start with less ofc, making you lighter and thus faster during the WHOLE race... To sum it all up: Senna was able to maintain a higher (or the same) corner speed as his opponents while running less risk to break out with his rears, at the same time sparing his tyres AND saving fuel. In his youth he found out that "it worked"... and never changed his driving style, no matter in what car/engine he was driving because the above mentioned factors work with EVERY car and EVERY engine (but when driving a turbo engine with a turbo lag, there is even that 4th advantage indeed). So now you've got the whole secret explained for free. What do you think it's worth? Kind regards, Barend PS if you want to know more, send me a private message
I don't race full sized cars, but I race high down force model cars and I've been doing this for years on corner exit, it's my way of finding the limit of the chassis, I rarely correct the car with the steering, I tend to pick a line and find the limit with the throttle pedal, the stabs at the throttle are so fast it's like ABS and once you know the chassis will hook up you just plant it, it's like a constant search and feel for the moment when traction can be fully planted, rather than smoothly applying the throttle, the car is gradually and smoothly transferring weight to the rear despite the erratic pedal inputs, because the chassis just can't react fast enough to such short transients, it's like how digital audio works, if you increase the sample rate enough it's indistinguishable from an analogue signal and it just flows. Hard to explain but I think anyone who is in the habbit of doing this understands how to extract performance from it, but probably can't explain why it works.
ruclips.net/video/RCI6IcUjSx0/видео.html here is a video of a very famous RC racer practicing this technique on the type of car I also race, and you can clearly hear it.
I do this sometimes especially on tracks with less grip. It gives me more feedback on what the car's grip is at that very moment. Maybe it helps rotate the car a little more in some cases? It also keeps my brain very active reducing brain hesitation and thus fewer mistakes.
Senna, Fangio, Clark, Ascari, Shumi, Surtees, Moss, Hawthorn and others... these guys could drive anything very fast and would all be at the top in today's cars.
Mind that he helped develop active suspension in the lotus team in spite of his mastery of taming car reactions. Active suspension helped him win his first at Monaco 1987 without any tire change and saving his hand muscles.
Before the B-spec racer was released in 1994, the Williams, was undriveable and found a way to take that car to three pole positions on a trot against the traction control of Benetton that year.
@@sennalotus12 I believe the Benetton didn't have a traction control that year, Michael Schumacher mostly uses left foot braking and cause of the light V8 Ford engine on that Benetton, the car became more nimble than the Williams
Senna was, without doubt, a uniquely gifted driver. If I recall correctly, Alan Jones the Australian former F1 World Champion used a similar technique when cornering or through chicanes. He referred to his throttle technique as “feathering” and it obviously brought him F1 success 🏎
Really interesting. It was like what my dad taught me in reverse, so to speak. He'd been a rally driver, and while I had a driving instructor to get me through my test, he and Dad arranged that Dad would teach me how to actually _drive._ Aaand he decided that taking me on roads he rallied on was a 'good thing'. (It was terrifying. In a Datsun Laurel, 2 lt, no power steering, I was a 17 yr old girl, couldn't see over the steering wheel... It weighed 1.75 tons IIRC. Lots, anyway.) Because a number of those roads didn't have good traction, or any, slamming the brakes on was not recommended. So he taught me how to blip the brakes rapidly if I needed to slow in a hurry, whilst smoothly but quickly getting down the gears - he taught me to actually slow using the gears out of preference to the brakes, which is a top idea in rain and ice! I still blip the brakes rapidly if necessary - sadly I'm relegated to driving autos now. I hate them - and rarely have I ever had the back slide out (once on ice, in an auto, and once when aquaplaning at 70mph on the motorway when I was 17 - those sorts of moments you don't forget!). In fact I didn't notice that my ABS lightbulb broke between the last two MOTs because I'd seen it come on once (the ice 'moment' - it was fine, just had an interesting corner on a country road lol) in about 8-9 years. Not bad in over 35 years of driving ;-) As for Senna - well, he could do anything and make it work. Though my inclination is to say smoother is faster (Prost was as smooth as anything and let's be honest, he wasn't exactly snail-like, was he?), my experience with control in braking makes me think he might have been onto something with the engines of that time. They were more mechanical than electronic like they are now. Keeping the level of fuel burning high might well have kept the engine working at its peak? That's well past my knowledge, so that's only the slightest guess. More likely it was just a habit... Or... did he do it to see if others would copy him? Knowing he _could_ make it work because of all of those years doing it, and also knowing it would _take_ years of practise to get it right? He wasn't beyond playing head games! Great vid - thanks!
This is an amazing story about your dad. Mine was a mechanic on a Modified's race team in Connecticut, he had us on his lap when we were 3 on the way home from the post office. Him on the pedals, my sister or I on the wheel :) Love racing dads!
My theory is that blipping the throttle allows him to go on an off the grip limits. Most drivers driving on threshold leaves a bit of room because breaking traction cost you a lot more than leaving a bit of overhead. In the ideal world threshold driving always wins but track conditions are never ideal and feedback is limited, so it pays to go in and out of limits if you react quickly enough, particularly, Senna is even faster in poor conditions like wet tracks and street circuits (eg Monaco) so I think the method of allowing him room to recalibrate constantly gives him more feedback and closer to the limit especially in conditions that offers poor predictability and feedback.
I think the reason he taught you to blip brakes is because that car possibly had no ABS. Now you shouldn’t really do that with a modern car equipped with ABS as it will still let you steer.
Having watched Senna so much as a child, and hearing those blips, I thought that was normal and I do it in the simulator to this day, not quite as aggressively but I definitely blip it.
Something I don't think you mentioned is the interplay between these bursts of accelerator and steering input. In most of the longer onboards from Senna, where you can actually study his driving over multiple laps, you can see that on the majority of occasions when he 'stabs' the throttle, he also turns into the corner (adding positive lock). Two reasons why this might be an efficient technique: 1) it induces a little bit of understeer from around the apex through to corner exit, and 2) provides feedback through the steering wheel as to when the car will be able to accept more throttle input. The small amount of understeer is helpful because it preserves rear tyre life and can allow the car to accept more throttle without bursting into oversteer (one interesting detail is that Senna really rarely had exit oversteer. unlike quite a few of his peers, which seems to be a combination of this technique with car setup). The feedback through the wheel (i.e. the increase or decrease of weighting based on the available grip when he 'stabbed' the throttle) could've given him an edge as to how early he could get on the throttle, especially in low traction situations (e.g. damp/wet weather or with rear tyres that were past their best).
You can actually see GT and Rally drivers use this technique now. One variant is to oversteer slighly before corner apex (aim towards vector at apex), regain rear grip then understeer to apex and out of apex.
Unlike Gilles Villeneuve who had lots of oversteer on corner exits. Would had dreamed to see those two in the same team for sure, just missed out by two years .....
A técnica de Senna em fazer o punta-taco suave, mantendo as altas rotações, deixando sempre o motor “cheio”, era incrível! Imagine essa técnica na chuva, onde ele era o “rei”!!!
Muita verdade! Muitos perguntam, "Como que ele, ou outros genios da sua era, teriam ido hoje em dia..". Pra mim, o Senna teria ajustado o seu estilo, tatica, etcetera, e ainda seria mais rapido que o resto. E obvio que se eles dariam um carro MUITO lento que faria diferenca, sem duvida, mais com carros iguais, o talento e o instinto do Senna era genial mesmo..
On snow and Icy roads this works great too. Works in petrol cars and EV' s, with and without tc / stability control. Kept me out of trouble for > 20 years.
He is basically acting as a PWM controller for the throttle, on average his throttle is open more than others, trouble is it's difficult to control and do consistently. I think you are right, the suspension dampening won't allow the springs to react to fast enough to the blip. But I also think sometime he did it to induce oversteer/understeer to put the car where he wanted. I highly doubt a driver as strong as senna wouldn't kick a habit that was holding him back.
It looks and sounds like Senna is "fluttering" on and off the throttle rather than "stamping" on and of the throttle. A fluttering foot would make more sense.
@@zapa47 well basically from what I could gather (I'm not technically smart), he would basically mash the throttle (gas pedal) on and off throughout the corner so that the cars weight would shift back and forth thus giving he's car more grip throughout the corner + he could take the corner faster + he gets less turbo lag when he exits the corner (I think)
@@dariusguinds6667 It wasn't impactful enough to shift weight. He did it with naturally aspirated cars so no turbos to spool. It was a possibly early childhood habit used for finding and staying on the (traction) limit. His own form of throttle/traction control.
i do it when karting, i only have access to very low power shopping mall garage indoor karting, its hard to make power and it's also slippery (not tarmac, kind of a polished concrete) so the worst of both worlds, it's hard to describe but you kinda feel the need to blip the accelerator, very instinctive --edit-- trying to get the rear wheels a degree or 2 sideways, just to help pointing the front better, but not letting the kart spin or oversteer (too much? is 2 degrees considered oversteer already?) obviously to be able to (and feel the need to) do this on F1 is amazing
Esses karts de estacionamento de shopping são f*da! Mas tem uns que são de asfalto, e assim mais tração. Eu acho que você deva ter apontando na direção da resposta certa: ele manteve a técnica da época do kart. E continuou funcionando durante toda a carreira dele.
Ayrton was a friend. I am technical and not a driver (although I wish and had much time on carts with big front porches, being 6'6"). I was not part of racing or the network of racing, but I will say this: AS was a student of the moment. He thought about every aspect of every car and track put beneath him. I do NOT think he would EVER have carried prior-tech (meaning cars, tires and track layouts and conditions) applications of his technique (his body movements, from head to toe) into any new scenario. He would not have ever let "habit" be a part of his day. You know, one of the things I get emotional about in telling folks about A is HIS STUDY ETHIC. If you told him that a soccer ball had camel leather all of a sudden, he'd study kicking it differently and new shoe possibilities. He did not carry prior technique into new paradigms of engine and tracks. He thought-out everything. Don't take my word for it. Ask Mika. If you want to know why he did this, put it in this paradigm: A genius doing something that you can't fathom. He would have eliminated it if it hadn't served him.
Something I found from trying to modulate the throttle like senna did is that it induces oversteer, he's revving the engine to pretty high RPMs and likely inducing just the right amount of wheelspin in the back wheels to push the front tires around. It's extremely difficult to do but there were a couple corners I managed to get it just right and it is definitely faster.
i also blip around the corner. it helps maintain revs for more aggressive exits. and more importantly it is to counter understeer and maintain better grip. blipping helps to drive the head into the direction you're turning, bit by bit you can feel it, and maintaining optimal rpm for the exit with the right timing. micro slide grip slide grip slide grip actually balances the car better around corners. i saw many japanese racers have this technique too. but f1 is a different beast.
I think he did it for three reasons, one was to throttle steer through the corner and always test the car to see what he could get away with. And second, was a form of traction control. Some of these cars had so much power you had to modulate the throttle to avoid wheel spin. And third, habit. It worked for him in karting so he kept doing it, he couldn't stop.
He might have used it to rotate the car a little more (those older cars would take more rotation). I doubt it was to test the limit of the car - all those drivers were already on the limit. Thanks for the comment!
Hi Johnny agree with you we were taught this when racing formula cars. Couldn't imagine doing it in the cars he drove. He was drove with great intuition as all through greats do. Having such a 'feel' for the car allows for his driving style to constantly search for the limit of grip.
@@michaelsaia7413 Mike, It was an honor to share a car with you and have so many laughs at Bertil Roos. Great times. I look forward to getting racing again soon. Let's try to do another Enduro! Get that money!
I was unaware that Senna did this! My dad always drove fast like this! And I guess I picked it up from him too. For me it always seemed to allow me to go through corners at a higher speed as long as you use really short bursts. I also feel it allows me to make better and faster corrections while I'm turning.
Yes. By passing back and forth quickly over the car's limits, he would know exactly where those limits were. Much like the introduction of the so-called Big Bang engines on 500cc GP motorcycles, which enabled the riders to feel the limit of traction on acceleration.
I do this with the steering. It's probably bad. I kind of "blip" the wheel, looking for grip, and when it's there I know I can apply more lock. I'm not too fast tho
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
What's your take on this technique?
It have a lot of sense and just by knowing how fast he was, there is no way on argue it. I just do sim-racing for now, sure I will be trying this technique later today.
I have done it instinctively for years on the road even before I knew Senna drove that way (I always get told I drive a car like I stole it).
It helps me balance the car better and by stabbing the throttle, you reach the limit of adhesion back under control, back over the edge and back under control, also you are on flatout throttle earlier.
NO TRACTION CONTROL. Check 93
I always raced karts this way. To me it just felt natural and more responsive. I'm no Senna though! JPs telemetry trace is telling. Senna's blippy throttle progression, if you fit a curve to it, probably exceeds JPs throttle progression and that's where he makes time. For me I think the mechanism somehow changes the hysteresis characteristic of the tire very dynamically as he maintains mid corner speed and builds it through the exit. Would be interesting to compare and contrast Schumachers technique in similar era cars!
As you watch documentary on Senna when he was with Williams he is talking about inconsistencies with a car, that it understeer and oversteer during a corner. Probably his technique stopped working with new cars, what do you think?
Senna was a keyboard user at heart)
Winner of the top comment!
Take my like
This thought was crossing my mind as I watched the vid lol
Best. Comment. Ever.
Take my like and sod off somewhere far away from me...
So basically the man had anti lag, abs and traction control all in his right foot.
yEah! And he was a lefty!
And also active suspension
Yes 🤣
And adaptive damping aswell as variable valve timing
Sanchez King I think that was in his hands
“The normal technique on corner entry is to keep as smooth as possible,” explains Takeo Kiuchi, Senna ‘s Honda race engineer of 1990-92. “But Ayrton would use the throttle to put more torque through the tyre and change the yaw, a little bit each time. This way he could get a better trajectory before the apex without as much steering. When we did our simulations, usually the actual time a driver set was slightly slower than the simulation; with Ayrton, he was nearly always slightly quicker. That was because we couldn’t model what he was doing with the throttle and how it affected the car.” -motorsport mag 2004
Didnt he DESTROY the tyres this way?
eight v I read the same and actually he could run the car faster than the engineers were modeling it under a classical driving style
@@Sandouras Firstly, I'm sure Ayrton Senna was extremely experienced and understands how his car behaves in order to do this, he wasn't doing it for shits and giggles. He found a way to make it go faster that was not documented much anywhere at that time. Everyone was learning the conventional way to go smoothly on the accelerator. He was blipping that pedal like an inclining PWM function as shown in the video. It's like a smoother average of an incline in a way maybe (see average of PWM function versus average of a curve, maybe like a sine curve or something at each point in time, not the total). I would like to say it is more linear in the changes of acceleration, which is useful in a corner with the centrifugal acceleration that is happening and the rolling differences of the tires, it does need something smoother. Now, you said something about destroying tires. Senna wasn't destroying tires. If to destroy the tire, I think the wheel would be spinning as he is doing this technique wrongly, which stated in the video, it would be slower. But the fact that he was faster, he was doing this technique perfectly. So, general physics would say if he was faster then his grip was good. If we look at the signal he was giving to the accelerator, it looks like an inclining PWM function, that in itself is already hard to do by a human, in such short amount of time. There is a good portion of how much blipping is too much or too little, so I think he was doing it perfectly. I mean he was beating Alain Prost by a huge amount in those days, he must be doing it correctly and I wouldn't need to question his technique. He definitely found the solution and we are looking at it right now realizing his technique which is his approach. About the turbo car thing, I think he did learn it then, but I would argue that he did not start off his skills being in a turbo car, he most likely learned them through karting in rainy days. He was definitely not a specialist in a way, he drove every single race car fast. We always like to think that way, because ultimately human beings are really good at specializing. Senna once said this. “And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.” (Ayrton Senna, 22 years old)
. I'm quite intrigued to his approach to constantly actively and abstractly think through racing. He used the pedals like instruments. He never settled to what was the status quo or fall trap to style. He was constantly pushing the envelope and actively thinking which makes him come up with deeper solutions. When he finished pushing that envelope and he realized it was his own ideas regressing his goals, he looked again like a feedback loop to newer approaches of what was unprecedented to achieve something nobody that could achieve. When he realized there was not one ultimate approach, and by looking at something deeper that nobody dared to try, perfecting it, then that made him the god of racing.
@@Sandouras - in short, the end defied the means. First off, he wasn't holding a drift... it was just enough slip to gain a couple degrees of rotation in the turn. I would say the difference in tire wear was not only negligible, but may have even preserved the leading edges by decreasing the sideloading on exit.
@@superheaton I didnt mean to dispute a legend or his driving. I was merely wondering how this didnt ruin his tyres.
A constant battle for grip, always at the limit. Forever remembered as the number one. The most spectacular racing driver ever.
Great description of him, underrated comment.
Always remember him at Adelaide just spinning like a top.
This must be it; purposefully sensing where the limit is by taking the car a bit over it for a split second at a time.
That reminds of a Nigel Roebuck quote: "If you see Prost driving a Formula 1 car, you'd think you could do it yourself. If you see Senna driving the same car, you'd abosolutely knew you couldn't".
I admire the rivalry between the two. Raw talent versus the operating mind, smooth vs strange, aggressive vs conservative. They both mastered their respective driving styles, putting them in the same car made for an unreal era of both F1 and racing altogether.
therein lies the reason why Senna was the faster one.......
Lol yes
@@fabiobalenzano6439 Prost scored more points than Senna during their common time at McLaren, you seem to ignore that.
@@maximum.p I beg you not to make this thread another flame war between the factions of Senna and Prost. The question of "who is the best driver" ever is already controversial enough, but I think history has told both driver's stories well enough. Prost won more through less risk, and Senna will forever be remembered for his once-in-a-century talent.
Inventor : Let me introduce you to traction control
Senna : Here's my foot
Exactly. It's so simple.
It's his traction control
@@sibeksibowski2126
My 1950's sports car had that, traction control, abs, stability control, you name it. Senna is famous for overtaking 5 cars in a lap, I passed 4 in one corner in the wet. Senna is also famous for colliding with other drivers..
@@barrierodliffe4155 Haters gonna hate.
@@Proudtiagoleite
I know these Senna fanboys really are very sad and hate the best driver of his time, the one and only Alain Prost.
Senna traction control system. Pushing his car to the limit.
Yeah that what i think too, that that was Senna’s version of TCS. I use to do this technique in Gran Turismo when i play online and yes i can get out of a curve much faster.
I actually do this on a curve on dirt rally. I play on keyboard 😂😂 thats how i go tru corners without flying to gods know where
Same here...i do it in gt sport and f1...it just feels faster and so natural...like having more control of the car and being one with it
My thought aswell, when you compare the premise of his technique and TC they are practically the same.
Rubber generates more net grip in stick-slip mode - well known. Senna probably heard this from someone and tried to make use of it. But I'm pretty sure the tractive force would need to change many times per wheel revolution to optimise the effect. So, theoretically, he could have been faster if the throttle had been pulsed much faster.
Senna's car dancing in the rain is something out of this world.
Cuz he practice more than any others under rain condition
@@danielfaria4949 watch some of his interviews, a few times he is asked why he loves the rain and he said I don't, I hate it, but it is my job as a racing driver to be able to race in any condition.
Actually very worldly
In summary, Senna was faster than the car itself.
In Ayrton Senna world, the car couldn´t react in time, not the driver.
You can´t be faster than the machine that can make you move faster. You can take it to its absolute limits, wich is what senna did. The other drivers where near the 95%
100% he would out shine the car just how Ken Miles would. Once in a generation of drivers.
=)))))))))
@@Tegneaufreak sure you know more about the car and racing than Sena. Sure m8
He's controlling rotation with throttle and brake, he's almost creating his own stability and traction control.
This is the bread and butter of rally driving, not exactly a genius move
@Skylor Skipworth
My thoughts exactly, he was doing then what is now electronically managed.
@@andrepduarte Exactly, Audi S1 drivers like Walter Röhrl did exactly the same in order to keep their cars under control, because that Audi would break traction in almost every gear on tarmac stages (it didn't matter that much on gravel or snow, because then it was always sliding). You can see ample video's of Röhrl's feet dancing on brake and accelerator and still having to correct with the steering just to keep it going in a somewhat straight line.
I also thought it was some form of traction control
Senna was also a rally driver before f1
I love reading all the comments paying respect to this unique man. Miss him so much.
This sounds almost like ABS in reverse. Rather than rapidly tapping the brakes to decrease stopping distance, he was tapping to get constant feedback from the car/tires and be on the very knife edge of traction at all times. This is why he was such a wizard in the wet, he was able to find the absolute limit of traction and keep the car right at that limit longer than most if not any driver ever.
Some other legendary drivers would go over the limit to intentionally make the car slide slightly to make the car turn more, so that the car is lined up with the exit earlier...meaning accelerating out of the corner earlier and more aggressively.
@@tylerdurden3722 Driver*
@@tylerdurden3722on dirt or gravel or snow track YES it helps.
But on high grip surfaces, it wears out the tires too much.
I think this is what Senna was doing. Completely agree with this statement.
If you're not driving on the edge you just won't be going fast enough.
Hello Driver61, here's what Honda's Takeo Kiuchi said about the Senna throttle blipping technique:
"He had a way of jabbing the throttle that people thought was all about keeping up the boost pressure of the turbo engines. Maybe it started that way but he was still using it even with the normally aspirated engines..He would use the throttle to put more torque through the tyre and change the yaw, a little it each time before the tyre stalled and slid. This way he could get a better trajectory before the apex without as much steering. He was the only driver I ever saw doing this."
Simon Stiel I get the feeling he turned the car with the rear tires instead of the front. Similar to the rally drivers rotate their cars. And I have a feeling his early carting days may have been where he started, as mentioned in the video.
aaah I think that's it! Makes total sense!!! Thanks for the quote!
A technique for racing your fastest is to rotate the car by late trail braking creating oversteer at the Apex and exiting with slight countersteer to correct trajectory under full throttle.
Exactly, more of a rally technique. The fellow in the video gets it wrong by saying he did this while exiting. You can hear from Monza it was only on entry.
Add in Keichi Tsuchiya. Same technique used in his AE86 glory days. Manual traction control on corner entry.
25 years after his death, Senna is still a reference in terms of piloting technique
LOL... there is much more secrets about senna driving technique than just right foot bip...
@@FF-jf8yg lol what a moron hahahaha
@David Mc not only he donated a large part of his fortune... The Ayrton Senna Institute managed by his sister helps a lot of poor children until today.
@@FF-jf8yg You do know the Season Senna died Schumi won the World Title and he said that if Senna didnt died he would be the Champion instead of him..
Senna was using a Worst Car, Unsafe and not even Senna was Upset about the Williams-Renault, The Boss of the Team said the same "Car is bad".
With all those things he had a chance to win against the Cheaters Benneton team (Schumi Team).
And that Team was almost perfect.
@@FF-jf8yg No! Actually last week was released a study that says that Senna is the faster driver of the last 40 years! They compared the difference between the 1st and the 2nd of all races and Senna had more time between than Schumacher or hamilton or nobody else! Even Schumacher said on a video that senna is the number one f1 driver ever :)
Would Senna have been faster if he drove like everyone else? Michael Johnson was asked a similar question about his unconventional sprinting technique. His response? "If I ran like everyone else, I'd be back there with them".
Right? Such a silly question, I see this all the time, someone does something different than the norm and succeed, and instead of saying he succeeded becacuse of that, they say, if he did it the normal way he would succeed even more, that's just bullshit. He succeeded because he was different.
Nathan Carrille Music yep yep
Nathan Carrille Music period.
I think the question was about driving the newer F1s when they didn't have the turbo anymore, because his technique clearly had an advantage for driving cars with turbo.
Jonathan Palmer - when he said ‘I raced against Ayrton for 6 years’
He meant ‘I followed in dust for 6 years’
It's incredible that they were even in the same race. Senna was worlds ahead.
@@metube9541 there’s a lot of good drivers, some great. Only a handful in Ayrton’s vein, and he was at the top of them
Bad karma didn’t kill Palmer though
Senna também seguiu na poeira de muitos pilotos! E não percebia nada de afinação de chassis para a corrida. Correu muitas vezes com o carro de reserva de Alain Prost (que também aprendeu com Niki Lauda) - Que foi o piloto que melhor dava os dados aos Eng.s que construíram o MP4. Quantos anos correu o MP4? 10 anos!
@@parcidiooliveira9943 Senna e o Dale Earnhardt Sr da Nascar eram farinha do mesmo saco, mesma tecnica, corriam com tudo, eram mestres da Intimidação, e ainda se respeitavam mesmo sendo de categorias diferentes.
E por pena e ironia, ambos se foram da mesma forma.
Se o Senna tivesse vivo e seguido o que ele tinha em mente graças a politicagem maldita da F1 que tirou ate Nigel Mansell por dois anos com ele vencendo na Indy, em 96 ele estaria nos EUA correndo pela CART/Formula Mundial e Talvez a NASCAR pela Penske, Graças ao Emerson Fittipaldi e o Dale Senior que admiravam ele.
The iconic loafers and white socks - the secret to Senna's speed!
Ha, maybe that's what we all need to try! King of style.
They're mocassins, you amateur.
@@kiranbabu3426 I'm part Eskimo... those are NOT mocassins, chump(seeing as we're name calling). XD
@@19MacRazy yeah, they are defo loafers. ideal for driving, flat sole
@@daneszhuncho Right?! I rock a pair on the ol' sim rig. Great alternative when one is too cheap for proper racing boots! ;b
Senna feels the traction all the time, he knows the full car behavior, the tires, the engine, and himself as one piece, all together. We miss him as a hero. Regards from Brazil
Apropriately coming to the conclusion of god llike qualities....
Senna è foda
Brazillians miss him too...
pure genius..
Man! this is exacly what i think and why i admire him. Even tho in actual days his skill is not so important and he would probably lose to some top level drivers nowadays. He was still probably the best overall and complete driver cause with this tecnique doesnt need any systems incorporated. He was also a very great tuner.
And when you are the best without any systems and helps you can be spetacular on anything even if you are not the best on some specific cars.
What i mean. Maybe Senna would be slightly slower in actual cars than the top drivers, but he would stomp them in old cars without driving assistances.
So basically, he was using traction control before TC became a thing
My thought also.
@Anthony Suarez Yes
Traction control computers modulate the throttle up and down in a similar way on corner exit.
My thoughts also. It is very common to hear drivers drive like that on paved ovals. I did it in an over powered Mustang. However it's not smooth and rarely fast. Sena was a master.
In SCCA drivers school they introduced us to the concept of "puller" vs "pusher." The manner in which we react to G loading while gripping the wheel. Do you push the wheel or pull it. They told us it didn't seem to matter which style was used, and most drivers don't even realize which style they use until they think about it. According to them 80% of drivers are pullers. They then added, "However Sena and Mario Andretti were both pushers." indicating there may be something to the pusher style. I payed attention on track and could immediately tell I am a puller.
Yep, and if you look at the curves and his feet once he feels the traction he wants he floors it and keeps it down.
As someone who done a similar technique my entire racing career, it's because the blips are short enough, that it enables you to feel out the limit of traction. For me this started as a karting technique for finding grip on slick racing surfaces, in the wet, and works just as well in the dry. It's not really something I have ever thought about until now, but if you do lose traction, because of the pedaling, you don't generally lose it for long, and it generally doesn't wildly affect the car other than to give you more rotation. The less responsive the motor, the longer the chops can be.
Because if you look at the comparison of his data vs the test drivers, you can just see how much sooner he is able to find where the limit of grip is and is able to use the throttle. Just my two cents as someone who just naturally started doing this.
Amazing how much more condensed and valuable your input is than this video. Thanks!
Bro I just did this on my debut ride and race in open category rental karting race 2 days ago! I'm very glad to say that i managed to gain higher revs and exit speeds thru every mid corner while moving onto the straights... BEST PART IS I started LAST on the grid and won first place 😂🎉
well done bro senna would be proud
Actually Senna said it in an interwiew. He used and adapped kart technique to his formula1. The interwiew is here in you tube.
Here is what I think he did. When you are feathering the throttle to not lose traction, you are most of the time under the threshold of spinning the tire. And in case you spin the tire you lose a lot of time regaining traction. The tires will grip more with a little speed higher compared to the tarmac. I think this way, you can be more consistent if you have a fast foot as Senna did. You don't overspin the tire a lot and hence can be faster than smoothing into the accelerator. I have never raced an F1 car and is just my theory from SIM racing so this could be as reliable as my Timmy Hilfiger watch...
Ayee love your content bro !
They use this physic in motorcycle racing and engine design. Yamaha Tenere has a trick 270 deg crossplane flat 2 cylinder engine. The 450 deg crank rotation gap where there was no combustion allowed the tire to regain grip after ''slipping'' having a burst of power from the successive 270 deg combustions. Usefull especially in offroad. You could go further with this thinking in that offroad motorcycles run less cylinders for this reason, sacrificing possible power output from a 4 cylinder engine. Low end torque plays in this also.
The strait plane twins would actually have a bigger ""no combustion gap'' of 540 deg, but I suspect the excess vibrations and balancing issues killed this engine design and rendering it obsolete.
from a motorcycle's perspective on a slippery surface, you can squeeze the throttle on and off quickly and frequently to get a better feel of the grip on the rear tire and then to point to the direction you want to go. the same technique can be done on a cart around a corner. maybe Senna developed this technique as he progressed through different cars and race divisions and already perfected it when he got to f1.
Even the drift king uses the blipping but in an opposite way. Imo senna was using the blip to see the edge of traction and keep it there. Where DK uses it to keep the sticky tires on drift cars from locking up and getting full traction.
So... Senna was forcing slip angle as much as he could?
I've been looking at this (and listening to it) for years and I'm always amazed at how many things are missed in these analysis.
What I see is that
1- He releases the brake long before the apex (and switches his right foot to the throttle, he actually reaches the apex ON the throttle. Clearly seen on the NSX video)
2- Most of the blipping happens BEFORE the apex (between the brake release and the apex)
3- On fast corners, by the time he reaches the apex he applies full throttle (most times even before the steering wheel is straight)
4- On short corners he is already full throttle on corner exit (as opposed to the 2nd Spoon at Suzuka, for example)
5- He doesn't always do the blipping at the same rate/speed. He instinctively adjusts it to the amount of grip at that given moment.
6- Seems to me he blips at a more rapid rate on fast corners, but during a shorter amount of time and he doesn't lift completely. The blip happens between 60-100% throttle.
7- On slow corners (Check Monaco or Montreal hairpins, or La Source at Spa) he blips between 0-40% throttle and usually continues blipping well into the corner's exit depending on how tight the exit is.
Well said, thats why he is the greatest....
.
Indeed
When I raced Mini-Z RC cars, which were basically miniature go karts, some time ago , I was with some locals that were world cup drivers. I watched them drive. They would pulse the throttle. They set their chassis to understeer so much you can't even go around the track without skidding the tail. They called it point and shoot. They pulsed and braked around the corner. Use the pulse to shift the weight back and forth and position the car towards the exit, then full throttle down the straight. Pulse turned out to be the fastest way around. I tried the smooth corner, nope, too slow.
"He instinctively adjusts it to the amount of grip at that given moment."
As Martin Brundlle said in the Senna Top Gear episode: "he had a God-given talent that i haven't witnessed anywhere else, a sixth sense of where the grip was before he turned into a corner."
A craftsman that mastered every aspect of his instrument.
Simplistically pure, especially considering the technology involved nowadays.
Died before i was born and still makes me proud of my country. What a legend :'^)
You should be prouder of piquet and fittepaldi.
They didnt deliberately crash into other drivers.
@@sugarnads you sir have no idea what Senna represents in Brazil, he wasn't just a fantastic driver, he created charity intuitions to help poor children in Brazil out of his own pocket, which still exists today and his sister still manage, he had charisma, passion and always made sure to carry the flag when he won, that is why when he died the entire country cried. Piquet and Fittipaldi were excellent drivers but arrogant ego centrists and had done nothing to the country in terms of charity, having said that, Senna is the biggest hero in Brazil, even greater than Pele.
@@kerketj I am Brazilian,and that is all true.
I get you like the guy, but "proud of your country" for what? You didn't do anything to help the guy, don't try to steal Senna's achievements as if Brazil in general had any merit in it. It was Senna and his team, including mentors and even sponsors.
@@trinidad17 Im brazillian and I completely agree with you. It's cool to have a driver or a great sportsman from your country, it may give you motivation or you can like him because you share the same culture but "being proud" doesn"t make any sense.
Now imagine doing this during a rainy day in Monaco. Every genius is crazy and he was.
I wouldn't say that every genius is crazy. Take Albert Einstein, for instance. He wasn't crazy, however, his mind was at a level it redefined what it means to be sane.
@@sam21462 Einstein not crazy? the dude wore shoes without socks!
@@mzxrules - Judging from what I see on talk shows these days that wasn't him being crazy, that was him just again being way ahead of his time. Now there is a wonderful story, almost certainly apocryphall but who knows. One day, the great man came down very late for dinner and others had already given up on him and eaten. He looked at the table with the dirty dishes and said "Oh I'm sorry, I have forgotten that I already ate". With that, he turned around and went back to his work.
So yeah ........ 😆
@@sam21462 That is a full crap of comment my dude. Crazy by in itself is a stamp that you are way out of deviation in your society standard.... as well a genious too. If back then he was not in society standard and has those euphoric and "way ahead of time" thinking, it is indeed being "special". Peasant call it crazy! Stop denying it that he is indeed "crazy" during his time! Even in today's standard he is a bit off!
@@slothypunk - So which "society standard" (Whatever that means as there is no "standard" in societies.)? Should we judge him by his Jewish heritage and against the other Jews around him? Should we judge him by his nationality? I mean he certainly seems pretty sane when compared to the Nazi movement all around him (before he bailed on the "society standard" of his home country). Should we use the physics community of the world as the benchmark for his "society standard"? Which "society"? What "standard"?
In truth, there is no such thing as "society standard". Feel free to prove me wrong. Why not start with defining for us what is the "society standard" for Americans?
Now I understand why the modern F1 divers when asked after watching a replay of senna's car dancing around the track all say "I can't do that"
If he’s already “pulsing” the throttle through the corner, I think he’s better prepared to let off when he’s losing traction as he feels it happening. He’s already clearly in a different league than even other F1 drivers in terms of his reflexes, so I think he’s feeling the edge of traction and that dictates what he’s doing with the throttle pulses.
Given his unbelievable ability in the wet in F1 cars with no traction control, I don’t think he’s upsetting the car in any way with his technique. The lack of grip in the rain would expose that flaw if it were true.
You clearly know nothing of racing. Only casual fans or people who don't know anything about racing think it's cause of reaction times. It's about the feel and the technique used. Some guy who has insane reactions isn't going to be some crazy good driver, lol, this is such a myth that I cringe when people think drivers are fast because of reaction times. Reaction times are important if you suddenly get the car snap out on you or something like that but you don't need superhuman reaction times to be Senna or Schumi or Alonso or Hamilton, you need incredible feel and talent (talent comprising of many different traits but superhuman reactions is low on the list). Most drivers on the grid will have similiar reaction times. The top drivers don't have miraculous reaction times compared to the other drivers throughout the grid, they have great feel and skill and technique.
@@vincer9960 you completely lost the point of his comment, he didnt say that he was better because he had better reaction, he just said he had crazy good reaction times, go ahead and read it again before roasting someone over nothing.
@@Loammello2 i concur
@@vincer9960 You singled out the fact he mentioned reflexes lol. You then mention about technique when Myles already was talking about the technique
If I was a driver currently qualifying on pole at monaco and Hamilton was my team mate, I might use a related idea at mirabeau to make sure I didnt lock up and bring out a yellow flag.
Senna and Jim Clark where just grandmaster in F1. No one could touch them. Taken from us too soon Rest In Peace you master 🙏🏽
Ahh yes. And Prost beat him consistently. Even when honda were giving senna better engines.
The only reason he won the championship in 88 was a retarded points system. Prost scored 2 more race wins and about 20 points more than him that year. But the point system handed the title to mr argybargy.
And winning a title by deliberately taking out the only person who could beat you? Should have been banned for life. What a hero. Dangerous to everyone around him.
Even SENNA acknowledged that Prost was a better driver than him.
You dopes. You think driving like a lunatic is admirable. Its repulsive.
He did shit thst anyone else would have been black flagged for. Him and that other knuckledragger villeneuve used to get away with idiotic passes.
Jim Clarke tho. Fkn legend.
The most naturally talented.
@@sugarnads lol
@@sugarnads i think you need to chill a little bit
@@sugarnads He just gave Prost his revenge for what he did to him the year before, on the same conditions and same track.
It was EPIC.
Senna was pure talent and my all time favourite F1 driver !
I just came here to express my deep love and respect to Ayrton Senna. He was one of the truly illuminated ppl in this world. He will be forever missed.
He was my idol as a kid, his fatal crash happened when I was 10 years old. I will never forget when my father came into my bedroom to tell me the news right after he had heard on the radio that hehad passed at Imola.
Absolutely amazing. I have always been fascinated with Senna’s driving. His technique is different, and unorthodox. But, man did he make it work! When you watch him in qualifying mode, it’s like he was truly a part of the car and a man almost possessed. He could have easily won two or three more championships. For me, F1 has never been the same after we lost him. I still miss him😢
So true about him in qualifying mode - in fact most of my super favourite memories of him come from qualifying ; sometimes I knew not even *him thought he could make it (he used to comment before) : and even though - he made it 🔥
Awesome choice of words...and "possessed" is spot on lol
Yes, this is very true and in reality, Ayrton officially should have won the F1 World Title 4 times. In 1989 Ayrton was disqualified in the final race (Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka) because Ballestre benefited Prost, where both crashed and Ayrton went on to win that race by overtaking Nanini, in the very last corner after having been 50 seconds behind because of the crash and subsequent pit stop. He would have been champion but after getting the 1st place. he got disqualified after the race ended. So Ayrton really won 1988;89;90 and 1991. And would have surely had another 2 or 3 championships before retiring.
His speed was entirely down to his loafers.
Don't forget the white socks.
I raced karts for about 10 years as a child into early adulthood, and I always (naturally) used the same exact technique. Nobody ever taught it to me as a kid, I just found that it worked and I was able to find traction where others weren't. Where they slid all around the track (especially on wet days) I managed to somehow make the kart stick better while quickly tapping/vibrating the throttle, and to this day I do the same thing in road cars. I've never been in a crash so I don't think it's dangerous, but I'm not really sure why it works either, I just know it does... It's a feeling, an instinct, and it's actually saved me before while aquaplaning. I'm sure Senna felt a similar way about it.
I knew a couple of drivers who drove like that, along with short jabbing of the steering when they were driving very fast thru corners on the road in the seventies. [This was in the Caribbean where we could get away with things like that:-) ]. Anyway I always thought that it was a precaution to keep the car unsteady in the corner to be able to change direction for unexpected stuff such as, bumpy surfaces and potholes, parked vehicles etc. Sort of like split step in tennis (sort of). I now think differently after seeing this.
The trick to survive aquaplanning is zero inputs during aquaplanning, if you know where the puddle is, do what you need (turn, slow down, build speed) BEFORE hitting it. Blipping the throttle on a puddle is not going to help in any way, it can only start to build up yaw due to uneven water levels on both sides. And the trick to be a good driver in open roads is to NEVER get anywhere near the grip limits.
2nd try. It's all about settling the vehicle, keeping weight on or off the rubber that matters at the time. Idealy saving tires with smooth inputs will prepare the car for "what's coming," vs reacting to what's happening. Senna seemed to keep the difference between the two smaller than I've ever seen if that makes sense. Amazing, to pull that off in those turbo stick shift monsters back then...sometimes add rain 😲
A big thing to do with a KT100 with a multi plate wet clutch....
It's weird. I just learned to do it over the years of regular road driving too and found that, even on regular roads, but especially in the wet, the car felt more balanced.
Imagine being able to HEAR someones driving style.
Duckhead Gaming unlike someone talking about it?
Today they even record the opponents sound to analyze
I can't imagine not being able to......
Sennas magic was that he could take the car over its grip limit, causing wheels to slip, something that other drivers will lose a lot of time on. Senna however could dance the car through the curve with little to no time lost. His brain started forming these neuron bridges at age 7, creating a unique brain that by chance was controlling a naturally fast and agile, but also top trained, body. Unique man, he had no conscious technique, the perfect driver created by many biological coincidences. We will not see his like in our lifetime, the greatest driver and a great human being.
I saw Senna many times doing telegraphy with the engine and also notice his attention to get and modify ratio transmission from throttle pedal to the butterfly valves - was nice to see and hear. I remember when he asked after a lot of telemetry analysis modification in one Monza GP. than Saturday made and incredible and best lap time with circuit still in old configuration with 2 Lesmo bends done from 6 to 7th gear. Thanks to remember this peculiarity of this grate driver for me the best one with the best F1 cars of all time up to now.
A small flaw in the descriptive in the video: most of the weight transfer is NOT the result of the car pitching or squatting from suspension movements. The majority of the weight transfer is the result of balancing forces on the free body of the car with acceleration forces acting on the center of gravity. Even with with completely stiff suspension, there is still weight transfer to the rear when accelerating.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. Also he concludes that the speed of the blipping is so fast that it wouldn't have time to create pitch (and therefore weight transfer), so didn't upset the car, but then says if Senna did it in a modern car it would cause aerodynamic problems because it WOULD create pitch and would upset the car!
Aahhh I see a fellow engineering collegue ;)
Correct. Simply put: Throttle increases weight at the rear and braking really increases weight to the front.
Correct the only reason there is pitch change is because of the weight transfer
Exactly. The car pitches or squats BECAUSE of the weight transfer, not the other way around. Any time the car accelerates/decelerates or changes direction there will be a corresponding weight transfer regardless of whether the car has compliant suspension components or not.
Senna: I was no longer driving that car consciously...........
I was about ten yo when this first happened: it was my second time trying go karting with my dad and his friends. At a certain point of the race, I lost my conscious of what I was doing, I was just racing, trying to make the best in every corner.
Sure thing I was a kid among adults, did finish second last and there's no way I can ever compare mine skills with his. But the point of losing conscious is so real... nowadays I still go karting, and I just keep trying to beat my own lap times and overtaking drivers ahead, losing track of reality by entering that "driving frenzy". I wonder if that's more common that it seems.
@@markitagens Happens to me everytime i go karting.
An older comment now, but deserves a reply; I read an article a while back where a guy said he borrowed a cherry picker, to watch qualifying from above the fence, at 1 of the corners in Canada (From memory). He said every driver but Senna lifted for the corner, Senna took it flat out. After quali he was in the pits and Senna saw him, and recognised him, and said "Hey, you're the guy in the cherry picker". I think time really did slow down for him, when he was driving fast, somehow, in his mind
@@timjohnun4297 Always on the limit. He made the car dance as said on Top Gear.
@@markitagens you can find a lot of research on this state of consciousness in the context of different sports if you search for "flow state" :)
Man, I miss waking early in Brazil every Sunday to watch this man race as a kid he was my hero. Far out I don't think we will ever have someone on our sports like this man again. I hope his legacy is kept alive forever.
Omg that McLaren sound was so majesctic!!
Don't use God's name in vain by saying Goddamn or even Holy Cow or OMG. Ur Breaking the second commandant!!!! Repent n believe!!!! In Jesus!!! He will surely forgive you 🙏!!!!!
@@joshuapere997 stfu
@@joshuapere997 I... Honestly don't care. Humanity is long gone.
Yup....gotta love those 1.5ltr v6 turbo Honda engines 🤣👌👌
@@joshuapere997 he said oh my gosh
Seems a bit like a human traction control system
Instinct, talent and genius.
All 3 beyond close analysis.
Senna don't react to the car, the car has to react to senna
but thats usually the case for every fast driver (and I don't mean exceptional fast like in terms of senna I mean just basically racedriver).... if you react you are not fast.. reaction is always slower then actioning (is that a word? )... otherwise you would be driven by the car... which is always a bad situation :D
even just driving on the road... you act.. the car reacts... the thing is to do the right actions so the car react in the way you want...
He is actually the best driver in history of f1.
Have U seen the Senna movie he could have retired & still be here Senna read his Bible & said no I'm addicted and can't stop 🙏
*Jim clark has entered the chat*
He's the reason i got hooked on f1 as a child...
Lol
Agrees with Noah... what’s that Jimmy?
I really wanted to be Ayrton Senna when I was a kid. He was so cool.
you can still do it , believe
IMO: The reason he did it as a kid was because the karts were two stroke - keeping the RPM up was same as keeping RPM up in turbo.
Keeping it on the pipe.
Hmmmm...no. Karts that Senna raced were single speed direct drive.
shooter7a have you driven a kart? Keeping the RPMs up carrying corner speed is most important with something with low horsepower and single speed.
@@Don-vv8ct only if there was a clutch with a high lockup rpm
Good one lol
"That reminds of a Nigel Roebuck quote: "If you see Prost driving a Formula 1 car, you'd think you could do it yourself. If you see Senna driving the same car, you'd abosolutely knew you " couldn't". POR DAVI MOURÃO
I love that decade of F1. It was all about perfection, pure driving skills, sheer power and SOUND. Today its so boring to watch..
@SgtCrikey And making multiple adjustments of of the brake bias and other things every lap.
@SgtCrikey No shit. Do you expect 80-90's style of cars to last forever ? World usually tends to change as well as F1, so no wonder why cars look like Terminator. It's all due to technical progress.
@@thirdasian8541 I love the todays cars as much as every other F1 car, each has their own reason to be the best of its year. For todays car, it just amazes me how chaotic and strange the aeoro makes the cars, especially the bargeboards. I would lie if I would say I truly enjoy the current racing, without the L, V, M pair, it is alright to watch, but in general we had better years. The old cars are just maniaks and require balls of steel to drive. Driver rather would die by an impact into a tree than to burn. I also think both cars are hard and very difficult to drive in their own ways.
Yeah, I stopped watching some yrs ago. Its absolute a bore these days.
I agree 100% today’s the cars are automatic don’t need a driver” at Senna age really needed a “Pilot”
My theory is he was accelerating earlier and with more force but whereas a consistent application of throttle would put the car into a slide if it was too early or too forceful, a blip would only slide the car a little, giving feedback as to where the limit is but also, as a by product, helping rotation on an oversteery car which he definitely preferred.
Controle de tração natural meu amigo. Era talento puro. Eu tive o prazer de ver isso de perto.
Natural traction control my friend. It was pure talent. I was pleased to see it up close.
Caramba! Parabéns cara, queria ter a sua sorte 😄
Que legal cara, eu não tive essa sorte
Isso daí deve ter vindo da época do Chevette carburado a álcool.... Kkkkk
Você é abençoado de ter visto ele correr de perto, eu que nasci anos depois de sua morte, só fico encantado com os vídeos de longe
Estava la e foi lindo.
Senna wasnt just a very fast driver, he's the fastest driver ever for me.
Would have loved to see him race against Schumacher . Schumacher did the same technic to get some light oversteer on his cars to get faster around the corners.
@@hortaufmichzuabonnieren326 shummy was behind him when he crash in Imola
@@royoroz Because Senna with a better car got the pole. But in races, with a slower car, Schumacher was better.
@@bestopinion9257 I mean, in 94 Senna DNF in the races. That Williams was totally unreliable after it got all its systems butchered.
@@RafitoOoO I mean Scumacher was faster. Look the races.
I saw Senna drive in person several times. He was the greatest driver...ever! He would adjust very quickly to the kiddie cars in F1 they have these days and be at the top. It's misguided to say or infer otherwise. In the turbo age the fuel injectors would go to high pulsewidth to dump some fuel between shifts (200-300ms) to keep the turbocharger spinning at peak rpm. This is the backfire one sees in the old films. It was by design.
Non-car guys: Nooo, I don't want to go to Brazil!
Cultured people:
I would say, it's more of a test of the grip, every time he stomped on the throttle, he would get a feel of, if the car was having enough grip for him to floor it.
I think you're right.
best comment. and this is why he would come out faster. he wasn't "guessing" like the others
when he stomped on the throttle the car loses traction on the rear, so he basically could drift the car to a specific direction that he wanted and make the corners much, much, much faster
My take is that it is something rally drivers do all the time while cornering translated in Senna's F1 driving style
1 to keep the car in its power band
2 to break and add traction to rotate the car in the corner
it looks similar to using oscilation/vibration. If properly applied this might give more power or more grip in certain conditions. Though it's mainly theorethical ... except air intakes using standing wave and Senna dtiving style. Both seem impossible science fiction and both happen on a very rare ocassions.
God made him capable. Senna was a genius. May his soul rest in paradise.
🙏❤
I say Senna, Mcrae, and all the departed racing drivers are just happy up there racing and talking bout cars.
Senna had a built-in human abs/traction control system!
Dear Driver61, you are looking for the horse while riding on it...
The blip throttle technique in a corner allows to INcrease the AVERAGE speed midcorner WITHOUT running the risk to go over the limit with the rears for TOO LONG. The latter will end in an oversteer situation that will cost cornerspeed/laptime and could even end up in an oversteer that cannot be corrected anymore (crash). It is much harder to be ON the limit with increasing the throttle smoothly all the time throughout every corner again and again, because in XY% of the cases you will go over that fine line and face more or less oversteer. Senna's technique allowed the rears to regain full grip just in time a few times during the corner when there was no driving power on the rears at all.
The same can be said of the frontwheels. When giving throttle intermittently, at the moment you give much throttle the rears (that do not steer and are always standing straight) want to power the car straigh ahead which pushes a car more into an understeer situation. However, when dropping off the throttle, this understeerfactor is completely gone at once, causing the frontwheels to "fully bite" again in the tarmac, causing the car to steer around with much more ease and 100% 'pure rolling' efficiency again.
These two effects added up made Senna faster in a corner while sparing the tires because the tires were NOT driven on the limit all the time taking a corner. In the intermittent times he was off throttle he spared tyres, both front and rear.
There was even a third factor. What Senna did can also be seen as "intermittently lifting" IN a corner instead of only lifting (and coasting) before a corner (which, as you know, saves fuel). When you are using less fuel on average than your competitors during a race, then you can start with less ofc, making you lighter and thus faster during the WHOLE race...
To sum it all up: Senna was able to maintain a higher (or the same) corner speed as his opponents while running less risk to break out with his rears, at the same time sparing his tyres AND saving fuel.
In his youth he found out that "it worked"... and never changed his driving style, no matter in what car/engine he was driving because the above mentioned factors work with EVERY car and EVERY engine (but when driving a turbo engine with a turbo lag, there is even that 4th advantage indeed).
So now you've got the whole secret explained for free. What do you think it's worth?
Kind regards,
Barend
PS if you want to know more, send me a private message
5:15 Karts have weight transfer just like normal cars. Weight transfer causes suspension displacement, not the other way around.
I don't race full sized cars, but I race high down force model cars and I've been doing this for years on corner exit, it's my way of finding the limit of the chassis, I rarely correct the car with the steering, I tend to pick a line and find the limit with the throttle pedal, the stabs at the throttle are so fast it's like ABS and once you know the chassis will hook up you just plant it, it's like a constant search and feel for the moment when traction can be fully planted, rather than smoothly applying the throttle, the car is gradually and smoothly transferring weight to the rear despite the erratic pedal inputs, because the chassis just can't react fast enough to such short transients, it's like how digital audio works, if you increase the sample rate enough it's indistinguishable from an analogue signal and it just flows. Hard to explain but I think anyone who is in the habbit of doing this understands how to extract performance from it, but probably can't explain why it works.
ruclips.net/video/RCI6IcUjSx0/видео.html
here is a video of a very famous RC racer practicing this technique on the type of car I also race, and you can clearly hear it.
@@ukwan You're right, he's the RC version of Senna!
Cool! Would you say it's easier to feel that moment where the car has full traction with this stabbing method than with progressive input?
always did this on videogames too, I thought everyone did it.
I do this sometimes especially on tracks with less grip. It gives me more feedback on what the car's grip is at that very moment. Maybe it helps rotate the car a little more in some cases? It also keeps my brain very active reducing brain hesitation and thus fewer mistakes.
Senna, Fangio, Clark, Ascari, Shumi, Surtees, Moss, Hawthorn and others... these guys could drive anything very fast and would all be at the top in today's cars.
Shumi ? Who is it ? A new Japanese guy ? :D
Imagine how dominant he would be if he was driving the Williams for 1993, with those active suspensions, abs, TC and things
Mind that he helped develop active suspension in the lotus team in spite of his mastery of taming car reactions. Active suspension helped him win his first at Monaco 1987 without any tire change and saving his hand muscles.
@@ragyoo2857 Yeah, I do remember that...that's why he was legend, in almost any cars
Before the B-spec racer was released in 1994, the Williams, was undriveable and found a way to take that car to three pole positions on a trot against the traction control of Benetton that year.
@@sennalotus12 yeah..Ayrton's famous whopping big gap qualifying had also disappeared, this time he got pole but by just the smallest of margin
@@sennalotus12 I believe the Benetton didn't have a traction control that year, Michael Schumacher mostly uses left foot braking and cause of the light V8 Ford engine on that Benetton, the car became more nimble than the Williams
Sennas do a tcs with his feet. Gain traction with this shortly blips
Throttle blips and loafers. 👍😎🏍💨
YEET
Thank you for remember Senna legacy. He was a genius and made our Sundays mornings awesome!
This is the best explanation I’ve ever heard. It’s easy to understand for almost anyone! Great job
Senna was, without doubt, a uniquely gifted driver. If I recall correctly, Alan Jones the Australian former F1 World Champion used a similar technique when cornering or through chicanes. He referred to his throttle technique as “feathering” and it obviously brought him F1 success 🏎
I use his footwork technique in my go kart racing for around 5 years and it's actually effective. Got alot of respect for his talent love from uk🇬🇧 😁
Looks like I'm not the only one who uses Senna's throttle technique xD
Senna: "How much air can the turbo pull in?"
Mechanic: "Air? Ton."
Senna: "Yes?"
That wasn't good at all.
Seriously pathetic.🙂
@@Tailspin80 Haters gonna hate
@UCmgTkBtGt_nkcj_eUd-PZBw The humour is in how contrived it is, not how funny. IMO.
@@Lu1998Bu whatever. Can’t believe you’re getting so excited defending a crappy joke.
Really interesting. It was like what my dad taught me in reverse, so to speak.
He'd been a rally driver, and while I had a driving instructor to get me through my test, he and Dad arranged that Dad would teach me how to actually _drive._ Aaand he decided that taking me on roads he rallied on was a 'good thing'. (It was terrifying. In a Datsun Laurel, 2 lt, no power steering, I was a 17 yr old girl, couldn't see over the steering wheel... It weighed 1.75 tons IIRC. Lots, anyway.)
Because a number of those roads didn't have good traction, or any, slamming the brakes on was not recommended. So he taught me how to blip the brakes rapidly if I needed to slow in a hurry, whilst smoothly but quickly getting down the gears - he taught me to actually slow using the gears out of preference to the brakes, which is a top idea in rain and ice! I still blip the brakes rapidly if necessary - sadly I'm relegated to driving autos now. I hate them - and rarely have I ever had the back slide out (once on ice, in an auto, and once when aquaplaning at 70mph on the motorway when I was 17 - those sorts of moments you don't forget!). In fact I didn't notice that my ABS lightbulb broke between the last two MOTs because I'd seen it come on once (the ice 'moment' - it was fine, just had an interesting corner on a country road lol) in about 8-9 years.
Not bad in over 35 years of driving ;-)
As for Senna - well, he could do anything and make it work. Though my inclination is to say smoother is faster (Prost was as smooth as anything and let's be honest, he wasn't exactly snail-like, was he?), my experience with control in braking makes me think he might have been onto something with the engines of that time. They were more mechanical than electronic like they are now. Keeping the level of fuel burning high might well have kept the engine working at its peak? That's well past my knowledge, so that's only the slightest guess. More likely it was just a habit... Or... did he do it to see if others would copy him? Knowing he _could_ make it work because of all of those years doing it, and also knowing it would _take_ years of practise to get it right? He wasn't beyond playing head games!
Great vid - thanks!
This is an amazing story about your dad. Mine was a mechanic on a Modified's race team in Connecticut, he had us on his lap when we were 3 on the way home from the post office. Him on the pedals, my sister or I on the wheel :) Love racing dads!
My theory is that blipping the throttle allows him to go on an off the grip limits. Most drivers driving on threshold leaves a bit of room because breaking traction cost you a lot more than leaving a bit of overhead. In the ideal world threshold driving always wins but track conditions are never ideal and feedback is limited, so it pays to go in and out of limits if you react quickly enough, particularly, Senna is even faster in poor conditions like wet tracks and street circuits (eg Monaco) so I think the method of allowing him room to recalibrate constantly gives him more feedback and closer to the limit especially in conditions that offers poor predictability and feedback.
I think the reason he taught you to blip brakes is because that car possibly had no ABS. Now you shouldn’t really do that with a modern car equipped with ABS as it will still let you steer.
For racing and some driving condition's, Engine Braking is good.But Brake Pad's are cheaper then a clutch. for everyday commuter driving
Having watched Senna so much as a child, and hearing those blips, I thought that was normal and I do it in the simulator to this day, not quite as aggressively but I definitely blip it.
Something I don't think you mentioned is the interplay between these bursts of accelerator and steering input. In most of the longer onboards from Senna, where you can actually study his driving over multiple laps, you can see that on the majority of occasions when he 'stabs' the throttle, he also turns into the corner (adding positive lock).
Two reasons why this might be an efficient technique: 1) it induces a little bit of understeer from around the apex through to corner exit, and 2) provides feedback through the steering wheel as to when the car will be able to accept more throttle input.
The small amount of understeer is helpful because it preserves rear tyre life and can allow the car to accept more throttle without bursting into oversteer (one interesting detail is that Senna really rarely had exit oversteer. unlike quite a few of his peers, which seems to be a combination of this technique with car setup). The feedback through the wheel (i.e. the increase or decrease of weighting based on the available grip when he 'stabbed' the throttle) could've given him an edge as to how early he could get on the throttle, especially in low traction situations (e.g. damp/wet weather or with rear tyres that were past their best).
You can actually see GT and Rally drivers use this technique now. One variant is to oversteer slighly before corner apex (aim towards vector at apex), regain rear grip then understeer to apex and out of apex.
Unlike Gilles Villeneuve who had lots of oversteer on corner exits. Would had dreamed to see those two in the same team for sure, just missed out by two years .....
I have been knowing this driving style as "the telegraph". Switching between understeer to oversteer as my father taught me.
6:23 mans driving in loafers
*driving shoes
@@jej7488 nope, those where loafers all right, that was from his test lap on a NSX, and he was in "civilian clothes" or so to speak.
He was simply the greatest F1 driver ever, had a sence of grip and way of handling that has never been seen before of since!
He was actually trying to get the most of the grip. Every driver is doing this naturally but maybe not in such way
A técnica de Senna em fazer o punta-taco suave, mantendo as altas rotações, deixando sempre o motor “cheio”, era incrível! Imagine essa técnica na chuva, onde ele era o “rei”!!!
Muita verdade! Muitos perguntam, "Como que ele, ou outros genios da sua era, teriam ido hoje em dia..". Pra mim, o Senna teria ajustado o seu estilo, tatica, etcetera, e ainda seria mais rapido que o resto. E obvio que se eles dariam um carro MUITO lento que faria diferenca, sem duvida, mais com carros iguais, o talento e o instinto do Senna era genial mesmo..
His brain just overlap everyone else in racing understanding.
Fantastic
Imagine the engineer asking senna "so, do you want oversteer or understeer?" "YES"
"Why not both?"
On snow and Icy roads this works great too. Works in petrol cars and EV' s, with and without tc / stability control. Kept me out of trouble for > 20 years.
He is basically acting as a PWM controller for the throttle, on average his throttle is open more than others, trouble is it's difficult to control and do consistently. I think you are right, the suspension dampening won't allow the springs to react to fast enough to the blip. But I also think sometime he did it to induce oversteer/understeer to put the car where he wanted. I highly doubt a driver as strong as senna wouldn't kick a habit that was holding him back.
Senna was the social outsider in the F1 circle. The drivers were secretly in awe of a talent they did not understand.
Perfect line.
Ayrton Sigma
The greatest formula one racer, period 👏
It looks and sounds like Senna is "fluttering" on and off the throttle rather than "stamping" on and of the throttle. A fluttering foot would make more sense.
Well done video, very well explained. You have a new subscriber. MustangMedic likes.
So what was the technique about? I got nothing from this video.
@@zapa47 well basically from what I could gather (I'm not technically smart), he would basically mash the throttle (gas pedal) on and off throughout the corner so that the cars weight would shift back and forth thus giving he's car more grip throughout the corner + he could take the corner faster + he gets less turbo lag when he exits the corner (I think)
@@dariusguinds6667 It wasn't impactful enough to shift weight. He did it with naturally aspirated cars so no turbos to spool. It was a possibly early childhood habit used for finding and staying on the (traction) limit. His own form of throttle/traction control.
i do it when karting, i only have access to very low power shopping mall garage indoor karting, its hard to make power and it's also slippery (not tarmac, kind of a polished concrete) so the worst of both worlds, it's hard to describe but you kinda feel the need to blip the accelerator, very instinctive --edit-- trying to get the rear wheels a degree or 2 sideways, just to help pointing the front better, but not letting the kart spin or oversteer (too much? is 2 degrees considered oversteer already?) obviously
to be able to (and feel the need to) do this on F1 is amazing
I only drove a Kart once and it was about 16 years ago! I did the exact same thing as it would help on every corner. :)
Esses karts de estacionamento de shopping são f*da! Mas tem uns que são de asfalto, e assim mais tração. Eu acho que você deva ter apontando na direção da resposta certa: ele manteve a técnica da época do kart. E continuou funcionando durante toda a carreira dele.
Basically he had traction control in his right foot.
This is nothing like a traction control system. Jabbing the throttle like that is not reducing wheelspin.
@@ilferrari you are right, he is doing that to prevent understeering.
I use the throttle like that sometimes when i play simulator.
I want to try this at games, did you actually notice any difference
@@ros3m4ries depends in wich situation but yeah sonetimes i manage to get more speed through corners
I feel that too and I used this a lot on gran turismo 4, it makes corners easier to turn
@@Acthu69 yeah
Ayrton was a friend. I am technical and not a driver (although I wish and had much time on carts with big front porches, being 6'6"). I was not part of racing or the network of racing, but I will say this: AS was a student of the moment. He thought about every aspect of every car and track put beneath him. I do NOT think he would EVER have carried prior-tech (meaning cars, tires and track layouts and conditions) applications of his technique (his body movements, from head to toe) into any new scenario. He would not have ever let "habit" be a part of his day.
You know, one of the things I get emotional about in telling folks about A is HIS STUDY ETHIC. If you told him that a soccer ball had camel leather all of a sudden, he'd study kicking it differently and new shoe possibilities. He did not carry prior technique into new paradigms of engine and tracks. He thought-out everything. Don't take my word for it. Ask Mika.
If you want to know why he did this, put it in this paradigm: A genius doing something that you can't fathom. He would have eliminated it if it hadn't served him.
That’s how i drive when using my keyboard to control my race car in Assetto Corsa
Something I found from trying to modulate the throttle like senna did is that it induces oversteer, he's revving the engine to pretty high RPMs and likely inducing just the right amount of wheelspin in the back wheels to push the front tires around. It's extremely difficult to do but there were a couple corners I managed to get it just right and it is definitely faster.
Damn looks like the way I input throttle in F1 2019 on my bad sensitivity controller
XD
I can't breathe
i also blip around the corner. it helps maintain revs for more aggressive exits. and more importantly it is to counter understeer and maintain better grip. blipping helps to drive the head into the direction you're turning, bit by bit you can feel it, and maintaining optimal rpm for the exit with the right timing. micro slide grip slide grip slide grip actually balances the car better around corners. i saw many japanese racers have this technique too. but f1 is a different beast.
I think he did it for three reasons, one was to throttle steer through the corner and always test the car to see what he could get away with. And second, was a form of traction control. Some of these cars had so much power you had to modulate the throttle to avoid wheel spin. And third, habit. It worked for him in karting so he kept doing it, he couldn't stop.
He might have used it to rotate the car a little more (those older cars would take more rotation). I doubt it was to test the limit of the car - all those drivers were already on the limit. Thanks for the comment!
Hi Johnny agree with you we were taught this when racing formula cars. Couldn't imagine doing it in the cars he drove. He was drove with great intuition as all through greats do. Having such a 'feel' for the car allows for his driving style to constantly search for the limit of grip.
@@michaelsaia7413 Mike, It was an honor to share a car with you and have so many laughs at Bertil Roos. Great times.
I look forward to getting racing again soon. Let's try to do another Enduro!
Get that money!
I see where Jolyon Palmer gets his analysis genes from.
Only Jolyon is much better than his father.
I was unaware that Senna did this! My dad always drove fast like this! And I guess I picked it up from him too. For me it always seemed to allow me to go through corners at a higher speed as long as you use really short bursts. I also feel it allows me to make better and faster corrections while I'm turning.
"he was almost mystic" - o melhor de todos.
Never even watched f1 but was deeply affected by this great mans death, Much like when Brocky died.
More akin to TC than ABS, I think. Very interesting video, and some great footage of Senna.
I think he did that to feel the car reactions.
I paused the video to find this comment. I can't stand him talking about bullshit. he probably knows nothing about cars.
@@gerbaxchannel2328 he makes many valid points, he's presenting theories. Some of these may not be true or maybe all of them are true.
Yes. By passing back and forth quickly over the car's limits, he would know exactly where those limits were. Much like the introduction of the so-called Big Bang engines on 500cc GP motorcycles, which enabled the riders to feel the limit of traction on acceleration.
he was finding the limit of adhesion
I do this with the steering. It's probably bad. I kind of "blip" the wheel, looking for grip, and when it's there I know I can apply more lock. I'm not too fast tho