I mean, you could say the nba was always looking for 6’9” skilled players who could handle, were athletic, and could play 1-5. Magic literally played center in the finals his rookie season when Kareem had to sit and it ended up being one of his most iconic games. Then the nba was like “nah we’re good” for 30 years
Yea i remember those guys used to be called "tweeners". Stuck in between positions. Not really a 4 but not really a 3 either or plays like a 3 but is built like a 4 and shoots like a 5 lol
I don't think they stopped looking for them, I just think the talent pool exploded, but they were still going for tall players who were obviously skilled like Penny Hardaway. Plus, big guys stopped wanting to play like big guys and started wanting to play the perimeter so their skills started to expand. Ever since I've been playing, very few big guys actually want to play the post
The NBA has all types of players, but it's whatever type of player that, for whatever reason, breaks out as a superstar that ends up getting treated as a novelty. For instance, when I started watching basketball in the late 80s, short players were trending, mainly because of Spud Webb who'd won the slam dunk contest. at 5'6 tall.
@@athirdwhy9734 I mean yeah, that’s similar to like Nate Robinson, or maybe the new IT, they were kind of novelties but also productive players. I mean I think their conversation was more about constructing a winning roster. Most teams that were building championship rosters weren’t trying to build around micro guards like that though.
Man, I just love hearing actual players discussing these things. It's really different from guys like Stephen A. or Skip and Shannon. Like KD said during this podcast, it's the place where players can really talk about basketball. None of those drama nonsense that big stations really bank on.
100%. And I would say I like JJ's the best. A lot of people love All the Smoke and Richard Jefferson's too. But this is more my speed. Cool there's so many options to hear from players.
Stretch four is basically what the 5 does now. Idea of a stretch big was so that you could still play in the post. Nowadays the four is a taller / more athletic 3 or a 3.
@@lancey8366 ya 3 and 4 are so similar nowadays its barely any difference only thing i would say is i want my 4 to be a bit stronger than the 3 and i want the 3 a little faster. So like PG13 and Kawhi, though PG is taller he is not as strong so Kawhi plays the 4 more than Paul does. Usually the 3 helps with defending guards while the 4 helps with guarding bigs. Imo a perfect NBA team has 3 wings on the floor at all times, i would always have a sf playing the 2 if my 5 isnt 7ft or taller.
@@lotuslife3239 u made a great point but imma just correct u at 1 thing When kawhi n pg are on the court they're actually 2 n 3 with a stretch 4 morris or batum Pg has always been a natural 2 guard but he switches when they play small ball
@@Johenz Na, it’s dead. Basketball is now positionless. We have Point Centers, Point Forwards, Power Guards etc. You name it, there’s a player with that skillset. The game is just that diverse/skilled.
@@ifheavenwashuman woah power guards? List one of em cuz I can’t think of a single one it’s either point forwards like luka or stretch bigs like KAT, do you mean devin booker maybe? Idk I never hear power guard before
@@mattpassos5689 Power Guards as in super aggressive/physical guards. Russell Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, Gilbert Arenas come to mind immediately. Even Harden can be used as an example.
I was In shock when I first started seeing Amare and Duncan shooting 3s towards the end of their careers you can tell that was the shift of the nba for the PF position
I think Lamar Odom preceded Draymond... He was 6'9" could play the 3-5. Handled like a gaurd and was an above average playmaker. I thought he was the piece that made those 2008, 2009,and 2010 Lakers versatile and hard to guard.
It's Hard too belive sometimes that KD has been in the League since 07, also Lebron and Westbrook and a few other guys. I was in 4th grade when KD came into the league and I have been out of HS for 6 years now that's crazy.
It's more or less dead when we're talking about stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson, Omri Casspi and Ilyasova who were big men with one job: shoot. Now we got either uber-athletic 4s who can get to the basket, shoot, and dribble like guards. Hell we even got former guards like DeRozan playing the 4 nowadays
Yesterday, I was watching a lineup of Seth Curry, Kyrie, Patty Mills, Bruce Brown, and Kevin Durant run over the Knicks. That's 3 guards 6-3 and under, 6-5 Bruce Brown, and a small forward in Kevin Durant.
Everyone had that friend growing up who was huge but wanted to play like a guard. Coach told him to get in the paint. But if he grew up handling and shooting he'd be twice as dangerous
Lmao, remember the days when you had a 6’11 power forward next to a 7’ center? And you had 6’10 SFs like Tim Thomas, Rashard Lewis, Keith Van Horn, Hedo Turkoglu? 6’8/6’9 was considered undersized for the 4? It was wild😂
Looking back to the 2007 NBA Draft- Greg Oden was the last of the back to the basket Dominate Big Men being drafted 1st overall. What Oden accomplished playing at Ohio State was remarkable.
Stretch 4s have been around longer, Robert Horry was a stretch 4 for the Lakers when they were winning their championships in the 2000s Cliff Robinson was a stretch 4, Detlef Schrempf, they didn't take as many 3s but their role was to space the floor
Kevin is in nba since 07. But up to now he is the kind of that future players that teams looking for. Its crazy how special he is.. The unicorns of all unicorns.
2:50 This is a good point, especially off the back of KD point out everyone's gone from grinding in the midrange to orchestrating catch-and-shoot-3s. It's not necessarily that the players are universally better, but now that everyone is training to be as good from 3 as they used to be from the mid, suddenly everyone is scoring 30-40% more from those extra 3s alone.
Thank you for bringing up Draymond's changed role frim wing to interior, and his improvement over time. The ignorant always want to pretend that all Steve Kerr did was steal the team from Mark Jackson instead of changing the game
Same here. idk why Mark Jackson hasn't had a new head coaching job yet but that Warriors team when Steve Kerr took over wasn't the same team that Mark Jackson coached. That player and ball movement drastically increased and it even showed in their AST to FG ratio.
You missing that draymond didnt know what type of player he was and GSW had a 20pt 10reb guy in David Lee. Draymond was considered a sf but he subbed in mainly to play along side or for David Lee. He was already doing that with Mark Jackson. Kerr instead took out the big man and had david Lee playing center until he got hurt. This team was already made
good job bro .... you can't blame them,they just watch nba highlights & then acted like they know everything ...... yeah,mark jackson favored playing harrison barnes more than draymond green ..... it was steve kerr who unleashed green & played him what he is now .... & it worked for them .... been watching nba as a kid since 1989 ...... I saw how good isiah thomas is & I saw the real 🐐 michael jordan won his 1st ring to his last .....
I'll never forget the moment when Coach Nurse put a lineup of Banton, OG, Barnes, Siakam, and Boucher vs the Heat this season. And they WON. They have some insane wingspans. #TorontoPterodactyls😆
As many in the comments have said, in today’s NBA, the stretch 4 has morphed into a stretch 5. Even centers who never shot 3s like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Valanciuanas, Marc Gasol, etc learned to stretch the floor and made the stretch 4 “obsolete.” If Ryan Anderson or even skinny Rashard Lewis played today (being 6’10) they would be playing the 5. The 4 is now basically another SF.
Shard would still be a stretch 4 tho. He wasn't slow like most plodding stretch 4s. He was the original 3man playing the 4. Not sure what jj means here
4 generally is a big wing. You got versatile 4s like Siakam and John Collins who are still 4s but yeah, that position is a big forward. Not the traditional back-to-basket types.
The level of talent has increased so many players come in the league with a diverse the stretch four is still around somewhat but the game is more revolved around position-less players that can play/guard 1-5
Dirk showed the world that a 7 footer could shoot the ball. That's why centers are shooting 3's now. And teams had a horrible time trying to figure out how to defend him.
The only thing Mavs were lacking was another big man who could shoot as a center and space the floor for dirk, already had a complete squad but I don't think even Kobe would defend that if a center shot the three. The ideal center would shoot, shot block / get offensive rebounds and play defense. Shaq wouldn't be able to guard that in that final.
Interesting that the guys really credit Draymond with setting the example of how to play modern small ball. It's crazy to see the impact that first Warriors championship team had on the league
well he's def not 'extremely" fidgety". I work in the healthcare field. I seen "extremely" fidgety. He's not even close to "extremely". But yeah he'll probably never gain weight due to his metabolism and genetics
Defensive schemes also helped the undersizes big. Slow traditional bigs can be blitzed during double teams. If that big has low IQ and court awareness, the possession would likely end up in a forced shot, turnover or bad play. So the traditional unskilled big became obsolete and a target both on offense and defense. ImHO
These students of the game, who are good and great players in their own regard bring a new element of understanding for the audience and make the game more interesting. Thank you
I would say the stretch 4 could be utilized in today’s game. Most teams play small, so playing big can be beneficial. For example if KAT played power forward it would allow him and the big playing next to him to dominate the board’s and lock up the paint. It would also allow KAT to post up on smaller players, whilst having a guy in the paint who can grab boards. The only issue with this play style is the possibility of bad perimeter defense and slow defensive transitions.
You just saw that if you watched this season. Both kat and golbert were out matched in speed. And it'll open the three ball. If the warriors are consistent in the road, they'd destroy the wolves at home. Over all it just didn't work for the wolves and the nuggets still beat them 4-2. Nuggets did have enough size though
Also if kat is guarding the three and gets beat trying to catch up to a guard/ forward attacking the rim, golbert would leave his man open supposedly and that's like an easy bucket if you're big hunny.
Stretch 4s like the Ryan Anderson-types got phased out once the Warriors started their run a few years ago - along with the post-up 4s like Zach Randolph, David Lee & Lamarcus Aldridge. You basically had to either be able to move up & play the 5 or play on the perimeter like a wing. Some guys like Ibaka made the transition well, while others like Blake Griffin quickly fell off. Most people won’t give him credit, but Draymond really changed the 4 position.
I don't know why Blake fell off. It's not like he was incapable of that transition. In fact, he made one of the most impressive transitions I've ever seen. He was playing like a lebron type player in Detroit fir a season before he fell off. He went from a pick and roll funking 4, to a ball handling passing and 3 point shooting 3. And did it WELL. And THEN he became terrible.
I dont think itll be all 6'9 players at once, i personally want a regular PG height out there like curry and a true rim protector and paint beast. The 3 "wing" postions will forever rotate. KD is my favorite player but i dont need 10 KDs out there tryna hoop against eachother. Teams with different play styles should be the norm, makes it more entertaining.
I was actually the originator of small ball like 15 years ago as a 19 year old playing NBA Live or 2k lol. I loved playing guys like Gallo at the 4 and dudes like Faried at the 5.
The philosophy of filling a team with skilled 6'9" players isn't something new. That was Pat Riley's philosophy during the Showtime era Lakers. They just happened to work it around Kareem
Dirk is the pioneer of all these shooting bigs now. Kd turned it up a notch. Now everyone's doing it. They have to thank Don Nelson for that. He was open to the idea of a 7-footer playing on the perimeter. He was the mastermind. That's why Dirk was my first idol, he was really different at the time. I like him coz he's one of a kind. Of course there's a lot of shooting bigs now.
The league needs dominate force. Not embiid because he shoots more than he posts up. Like a real dominate big man. But the way these generation of players are coming out, we’ll probably never see that. Unless someone decides to go against the grain.
@@NV_Tensa Embiid post up as much than he shoot, also posting up doesn't mean you can't shoot while doing it and that's what Embiid does just like Ewing and Robinson was able to shoot middys too. Jokic is dominant back to the basket but he is an balkans bigs which means that he is more complete than traditional bigs
There are dominant back to the basket bigs rn as we speak. They’re just more skilled and complete offensively. They can work from the perimeter but when they get to the block they’re still a problem.
Anyone who's created a character in 2K has thought to themselves "Why isn't the NBA exclusively athletic 7 foot guys who can dribble, shoot, and guard well?". If there were enough guys like that out there, I think that's what the NBA would become, just like they said. If the US ever gets youth training programs on par with Europe, it's not farfetched.
That's why they did wrong to Thon Maker. He's this type of player. Not a center. It's a shame that with his skill, agility and drive he got fooled by coaches after the Milwaukee Bucks. Most coaches still don't know what to do with most of this players. They're still afraid of playing them to their strengths and rather play them to the traditional positions and playbooks. Even the awards for all NBA teams gotta stop with the positions and award the best players. This year is the perfect example. Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, KD and one of Luka, Morant or LeBron should be the 1st team.
in 2006 there were 16 pf/c in the top 40players in scoring. a month ago i looked it up again. this year there was 6 in the top 40 scoring......6!!!!!!! its a g/sf game now!
@@v2huhroon That's one team though. Also, they have no real center, and of those 6'6" - 6'8" forwards that they have, I'd say only like 2 of them are skilled enough to handle guard duties.
Joker, Embiid & Giannis are so damn skilled for their size. The handle they have and touch around the rim is amazing. If your almost 7ft tall your expected to have some finesse or else you'll be out of the league quick
Are you new? Did you go back into the archives? Back in the Bubble? This podcast is why I know that anyone who thinks the bubble championship was fake or easy is a casual.
lmao IDGAF about the bubble! What a strange comment. Did I even mention "the bubble"? No. Is it a crime to re-listen to old pods of players I respect & whose opinions I value? Get that hate out of your heart
@@EJ-jw9ow? Sorry? I wasn't trying to imply that you did.... That's just back when this version of the podcast started. I was wondering if you listened to it back then or went back to is all. The conversation with players back then was amazing. I'm pretty sure we agree about the pod, didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't....
It amazes me.. seriously amazes me that as good as these guys are, they can’t even see the last two championship teams won playing big lineups. A center, 2 PF, SF, ball handler
All it takes is for a franchise to have identities again. Everybody wants to shoot hella 3s only because GSW made it popular. The position don’t matter as long as you can hit 3s & defend. Every year it seems a franchise has a new system to conform to the new players they get rather than players getting with the program of that organization. I believe a team that has good perimeter defense, slower pacing and traditional positions can be successful today
Slow teams exist today, miami philly and boston are slow half court teams, the main problem with stretch 4s are their inability to defend the pick and roll. You cant just sag off the handler today and call it a day.
@@markpagtama7954 can't speak for miami cause I haven't seen them play but philly and boston have ball dominant players. Lot of their offense is their stars getting a shot they want. From what I'm hearing, miami is the only team out the three that's close to having an identity and that's really just from culture. Correct me if im wrong on that. 4s and 5s in general cant gaurd a smaller quicker player. That dont mean Im not gonna pick up Kristaps Porzingis on my team if I have the chance and need him. And I wont put a 3 in the 4 place just to say they can put a body on anybody. If that's truly a player skillset like ben simmons, then fine. But everybody is not like that. There's a flaw in every type of lineup or style of play
@@yoitmeree thats ehat theyre talking about in the podcast, instead of playing a guy like kristaps in the 4 you put him in the 5 because youre going to play a team with someone like kd in the 4 thats going to abuse your defense.
@@markpagtama7954 If they wanna do that, that sounds like the interior d would get softer. KD size can put a body on a 4 but that's straight post work for that 4. How long could kd put effort in low post D and still be efficient offensively before getting gassed or foul trouble? Now I know its a double edge sword, cause kd is gonna torch whoever is in front of him. This is the same problem GS had during they championship era(before kd). Small ball & can shoot the lights out. But they never had a good C and teams that played big exposed that defense. Majority of the league tried to copy them and lost because they tryna play GS game rather than play to their strengths. You're gonna lose that matchup one way or another vs draymond if you try to put a smaller guy on him that doesn't typically play frontcourt just because he's small for his position. To me postionless basketball is just fancy term for my team is lacking in a certain area. I'm rambling. I'm not in the nba, so what do I know
@@yoitmeree thats the thing they dont have to, play small, get the ball in transition fast, abuse the slow 4 in half court. Dare the other team to outscore kd on the 4 with a low post player. Its just not possible.
The game will keep expanding to 5 people who can shoot 3s, but eventually a dominating center will come that will change the game again. Its happens in every sport, basketball just happens to be a little slow in this instance. But in tennis you see pretty regular changes from power, speed, or technical skill sets.
@@kuhfusskatsadventures Faulty comparison. These guys are the best of the best of the best at something. To get here they've had to obsess about basketball. Live it, breathe it. All consuming. Not the same as some Joe Shmoe clocking in for a 9-5 to put food on the table for his family. It's a safe bet that nearly all NBA players love/enjoy basketball. They might not like the travel, talking to the media, rehab, etc but rest assured the core game of basketball is their life's work and they love it.
Invented... stretch 4s was one of the reasons I liked the 90s Sonics so much, Schrempf, Perkins and Kemp, could all shoot 3s, Kemp more 18 foot jumper and all could post up.
I somewhat disagree with the 6’9 take. The little guy will always have a spot in the league. You need speed and shiftiness. The bigger the player, the slower. Guys like Lebron & KD can move, but not like Ja Morant or Trae Young. Even big guards with speed like Lonzo & Lamelo can’t guard the little guys
its true that they are shifty as hell, but they will also be a defensive liability. boston had defensive liabilities for years with IT and kemba, but now they just put Smart at the 1 and they could use their length and good team defense to counter the smaller guys
They’ll always have a spot buy that spot will begin to diminish if they can start finding more 6’9-6’10 guys like Ben Simmons with good defensive instincts and athletic ability to match quick little guys
I think The Process, The Joker, and The Freak are showing that this is not true. It's just this era. Like everybody started running the West Coast offense until Baltimore was like f%&@ that let's go punch everybody in the mouth. At some point you are going to get a very skilled "Shaq" and then everybody is going to look for that.
Who over 21 watches the nba anymore. It’s an elite level aau game. Sprint down . Pick and roll. Fire it up in 10- 12 seconds. Run back on defense. It’s like watching someone play madden on rookie mode
When dirk sfirst started out he used to be able to run from coast to coast and shoot over anyone.. Its just that peopel remember him as, the guy that do postup and shoot the one legend fadeaway..
The numbers in the NBA are definitely inflated now days. The raw stats you can generate if your talented enough is just insane. If you just looked at the stats you’d think Booker was prime Kobe, Joel was Shaq, Lebron and derozan were at their peaks, and Jokic is the goat. Not to mention Luka putting up damn near 30/10/10 lol. It’s a joke, not to say they all aren’t great players and extremely talented in their own right. But the league has changed a lot.
The NBA needed the Dream Team to help start the trend of making basketball a global game.. every year the talent pool increases and eventually you will have a large enough global talent pool that you will see bigger more athletic kids coming into the NBA from a global scale
K Got It : Stretch four is basically what the 5 does now. Idea of a stretch big was so that you could still play in the post. Nowadays the four is a taller / more athletic 3 or a 3. Ross Sherman: It feels like the stretch four just got here. But JJ is right: the stretch four has already died out. Man, I'm old. 4heavens8k : Basketball is now positionless. We have Point Centers, Point Forwards, Power Guards etc. You name it, there’s a player with that skillset. The game is just that diverse/skilled. Like these comments :)
I don’t think the traditional starting five is dead but basketball is definitely evolving to being versatile if ur point guard u need to be able to slide to the shooting guard and play off the ball and create ur own shot. Small forwards should be able to switch to the four and obviously the center spot is strictly the five unless u can space the floor from midrange to the three
it's never going to be all 6'9" guys on the court. because then there's no size advantage that either team has. if every player or at least starter is the same height and similar weight...
Agree. If you are all 6'9", then the 6'2" and 6'5" guards would have an easy job to break defenses as bigger players have harder time to cover shifty and skilled guards like Ja, Curry and Dame.
That is because instead of the roles of the 4 and 5 being interchangeable, the roles of 1, 3 and 4 have become a lot more interchangeable. E.g. Luka Doncic, is he a small forward, a point guard or a power forward? 5's can now shoot and play-make like Embiid or Jokic. So the future of the league is going to be 4 Lukas and a Trae Young per team
G-Magic G/Kobe F-Bron F-Dirk C-Hakeem Only reason I put Dirk at the 4 so he can space out the paint for Hakeem and Hakeem at center since he can defend the paint from Giannis.
I won’t even use Magic and Bron & I’ll use guys in 1 era. This is a 7 game series. G - Chris Paul G - Kobe Bryant F - Tracy McGrady F - Tim Duncan C - Shaquille O’Neal
Draymond didnt start that. Don Nelson did it. Then D’antoni with Shawn Marion and Amare playing the 4-5. And Shawn Marion played way better than Draymond. And then Miami with Bosh Manning the 5 and Bron manning the 4.
I wouldn’t say Marion or Bosh were primary ball handlers though. And both were amazing defenders but idk if they were better than draymond guarding the 1-5. He was one of the best interior and perimeter defenders in the league. I also don’t think Marion was “way” better than draymond. Both played much different roles but I’d say draymond played his role better personally. Other than curry he was the most valuable player to that warrriors team. We saw it this year even when he went down to injury the warriors sucked.
I mean, you could say the nba was always looking for 6’9” skilled players who could handle, were athletic, and could play 1-5. Magic literally played center in the finals his rookie season when Kareem had to sit and it ended up being one of his most iconic games. Then the nba was like “nah we’re good” for 30 years
Yea i remember those guys used to be called "tweeners". Stuck in between positions. Not really a 4 but not really a 3 either or plays like a 3 but is built like a 4 and shoots like a 5 lol
Also magic was usually put on the worst player on defence guards to fast for hom and bigs dominated
I don't think they stopped looking for them, I just think the talent pool exploded, but they were still going for tall players who were obviously skilled like Penny Hardaway. Plus, big guys stopped wanting to play like big guys and started wanting to play the perimeter so their skills started to expand. Ever since I've been playing, very few big guys actually want to play the post
The NBA has all types of players, but it's whatever type of player that, for whatever reason, breaks out as a superstar that ends up getting treated as a novelty. For instance, when I started watching basketball in the late 80s, short players were trending, mainly because of Spud Webb who'd won the slam dunk contest. at 5'6 tall.
@@athirdwhy9734 I mean yeah, that’s similar to like Nate Robinson, or maybe the new IT, they were kind of novelties but also productive players. I mean I think their conversation was more about constructing a winning roster. Most teams that were building championship rosters weren’t trying to build around micro guards like that though.
Man, I just love hearing actual players discussing these things. It's really different from guys like Stephen A. or Skip and Shannon. Like KD said during this podcast, it's the place where players can really talk about basketball. None of those drama nonsense that big stations really bank on.
Lol if you haven’t you should watch mark cuban destroy skip on his own show, they act like clowns sometimes
@@LokTar_Ogar93 I've seen that and felt secondhand embarrassment for Bayless.😂
100%. And I would say I like JJ's the best. A lot of people love All the Smoke and Richard Jefferson's too. But this is more my speed. Cool there's so many options to hear from players.
And that's why this has 600k views. Meanwhile there are 30 sports talk shows on cable right now with 200 viewers
Draymond can’t handle the ball like Lamar
Stretch four is basically what the 5 does now. Idea of a stretch big was so that you could still play in the post. Nowadays the four is a taller / more athletic 3 or a 3.
Honestly the 3-4 to me is the same exact position. Just two forwards that you want to guard at least 2-4 if not 1-5. And that can score anywhere
@@lancey8366 ya 3 and 4 are so similar nowadays its barely any difference only thing i would say is i want my 4 to be a bit stronger than the 3 and i want the 3 a little faster. So like PG13 and Kawhi, though PG is taller he is not as strong so Kawhi plays the 4 more than Paul does. Usually the 3 helps with defending guards while the 4 helps with guarding bigs. Imo a perfect NBA team has 3 wings on the floor at all times, i would always have a sf playing the 2 if my 5 isnt 7ft or taller.
KD is a stretch four
Who is The best Stretch 1
@@lotuslife3239 u made a great point but imma just correct u at 1 thing
When kawhi n pg are on the court they're actually 2 n 3 with a stretch 4 morris or batum
Pg has always been a natural 2 guard but he switches when they play small ball
It feels like the stretch four just got here. But JJ is right: the stretch four has already died out. Man, I'm old.
died out? nahhh thats all the nba now
@@Johenz Na, it’s dead. Basketball is now positionless. We have Point Centers, Point Forwards, Power Guards etc. You name it, there’s a player with that skillset. The game is just that diverse/skilled.
@@ifheavenwashuman woah power guards? List one of em cuz I can’t think of a single one it’s either point forwards like luka or stretch bigs like KAT, do you mean devin booker maybe? Idk I never hear power guard before
@@mattpassos5689 Power Guards as in super aggressive/physical guards. Russell Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, Gilbert Arenas come to mind immediately. Even Harden can be used as an example.
@@mattpassos5689 Anthony Edward is a power guard
It was an amazing decade for the 4. Dirk, Webber, Duncan, KG, McDyess, Rasheed, Amare, Jermaine ONeal, Gasol, etc...
I was In shock when I first started seeing Amare and Duncan shooting 3s towards the end of their careers you can tell that was the shift of the nba for the PF position
@@marcocano8399 neither of those guys ever really shot threes, they made a midrange game for themselves, but never stepped back those few feet
Also Chris Bosh
@@gkdunch Dirk shot plenty of threes in his career.
@@joshuajones2115 i didn't say anything about dirk
I think Lamar Odom preceded Draymond... He was 6'9" could play the 3-5. Handled like a gaurd and was an above average playmaker. I thought he was the piece that made those 2008, 2009,and 2010 Lakers versatile and hard to guard.
Great call! I agree !!
Elite defender when he wanted also! Prime Odom was a matchup nightmare
@@chill5709 Smart player as well.
@@chill5709 Smart player as well.
Don’t forget the matrix, same kind of mold as these guys
It's Hard too belive sometimes that KD has been in the League since 07, also Lebron and Westbrook and a few other guys. I was in 4th grade when KD came into the league and I have been out of HS for 6 years now that's crazy.
Yea but he was only 18-19 then
@@jacktowntrey7414 damn I thought he was 30 when he got drafted
Lebron been in the league since I was 3 and I have been out of HS for 4 years now 😅
@@mattpassos5689 😂😂
@@jacktowntrey7414 Yes but KD is a rare player. He has been in his prime for over 10 years that's rare for a NBA player
It's more or less dead when we're talking about stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson, Omri Casspi and Ilyasova who were big men with one job: shoot. Now we got either uber-athletic 4s who can get to the basket, shoot, and dribble like guards. Hell we even got former guards like DeRozan playing the 4 nowadays
@Jim Brave majority of teams don't post up period. Especially power forwards. It's not 2004 anymore dawg
Yesterday, I was watching a lineup of Seth Curry, Kyrie, Patty Mills, Bruce Brown, and Kevin Durant run over the Knicks. That's 3 guards 6-3 and under, 6-5 Bruce Brown, and a small forward in Kevin Durant.
Evan Mobley is the archetype for the future
@@ProdByCAV0 yep the days of the zach randolph-david west type of 4 are long gone.
@@ProdByCAV0 it’s not the fact that it’s 2004. Nobody is built like 6’10 260 of all muscle
Everyone had that friend growing up who was huge but wanted to play like a guard. Coach told him to get in the paint. But if he grew up handling and shooting he'd be twice as dangerous
John Walker III from TSU is the next version of KD
maybe not back in the days, but in today's game for sure.
Me😭 I’m 6’9 I could be in the league but all I got is a turnaround jump hook lmao
High school coaches make you play center if you’re 6’3+ when those niggas should be guards.
@@GHXST_O1 Thats all u need son
i can listen to Kd talking basketball whole day
KD is the best
Facts
Lmao, remember the days when you had a 6’11 power forward next to a 7’ center? And you had 6’10 SFs like Tim Thomas, Rashard Lewis, Keith Van Horn, Hedo Turkoglu? 6’8/6’9 was considered undersized for the 4? It was wild😂
That’s the era I came up in. I miss those days.
Don’t miss those days…. Lewis was a 4 on that Orlando team that went to the finals.
Even drik played as a sf for a period at beginning of his career
@@MrFrankello I remember that lol That’s because it was so uncommon and weird for pf’s to shoot 3’s
The raptors current tallest player is 6'8
Looking back to the 2007 NBA Draft- Greg Oden was the last of the back to the basket Dominate Big Men being drafted 1st overall. What Oden accomplished playing at Ohio State was remarkable.
Can you imagine a heathy Oden & Brandon Roy?? I’m my opinion, that looks like another Shaq and Kobe like duo
Steph curry’s first all star game was Dwight Howard’s last that was the moment for me
deandre ayton was number one overall, joel embiid was gonna be number one over all...... tf
He avg 15/9 and 3 blocks it was good but remarkable might be pushing it plus they didn’t even make it to the elite 8 that year
Ayton was drafted 1st overall just a few years ago lol
Best NBA pod out right now, you can tell guys respect JJ and it feels just like a conversation. Great job guys (u too Tommy🤣)
Tommy represents us fans! Lol
"exotic offenses"
🤣🤣
I didn’t know it was a thing until now.. But I think JJ and KD just came up with it on the spot 😭
Stretch 4s have been around longer, Robert Horry was a stretch 4 for the Lakers when they were winning their championships in the 2000s
Cliff Robinson was a stretch 4, Detlef Schrempf, they didn't take as many 3s but their role was to space the floor
Toni Kukoč was a stretch 4 in the NBA, but before that he played SF in Europe, even guard on some occasions. Basically KD before KD.
Detlef and Horry was crazy.
Kevin is in nba since 07. But up to now he is the kind of that future players that teams looking for. Its crazy how special he is.. The unicorns of all unicorns.
Facts on facts
2:50 This is a good point, especially off the back of KD point out everyone's gone from grinding in the midrange to orchestrating catch-and-shoot-3s.
It's not necessarily that the players are universally better, but now that everyone is training to be as good from 3 as they used to be from the mid, suddenly everyone is scoring 30-40% more from those extra 3s alone.
so much knowledge in one conversation for real
fr you could tell
@@tcsnakeyes5 Yeah they dumbed it down for y'all.
The 2 dudes with no experience had no Intel cause the the basketball IQ in this conversation is so high. Quality conversation
Thank you for bringing up Draymond's changed role frim wing to interior, and his improvement over time. The ignorant always want to pretend that all Steve Kerr did was steal the team from Mark Jackson instead of changing the game
Same here. idk why Mark Jackson hasn't had a new head coaching job yet but that Warriors team when Steve Kerr took over wasn't the same team that Mark Jackson coached. That player and ball movement drastically increased and it even showed in their AST to FG ratio.
FACTS!
You missing that draymond didnt know what type of player he was and GSW had a 20pt 10reb guy in David Lee. Draymond was considered a sf but he subbed in mainly to play along side or for David Lee. He was already doing that with Mark Jackson. Kerr instead took out the big man and had david Lee playing center until he got hurt. This team was already made
good job bro .... you can't blame them,they just watch nba highlights & then acted like they know everything ...... yeah,mark jackson favored playing harrison barnes more than draymond green ..... it was steve kerr who unleashed green & played him what he is now .... & it worked for them .... been watching nba as a kid since 1989 ...... I saw how good isiah thomas is & I saw the real 🐐 michael jordan won his 1st ring to his last .....
Love the jargon JJ throws out where you can see Durant light up to it. It’s like they’re speaking their own language. Great insider podcast
I'll never forget the moment when Coach Nurse put a lineup of Banton, OG, Barnes, Siakam, and Boucher vs the Heat this season. And they WON. They have some insane wingspans. #TorontoPterodactyls😆
As many in the comments have said, in today’s NBA, the stretch 4 has morphed into a stretch 5. Even centers who never shot 3s like Brook Lopez, Vucevic, Valanciuanas, Marc Gasol, etc learned to stretch the floor and made the stretch 4 “obsolete.” If Ryan Anderson or even skinny Rashard Lewis played today (being 6’10) they would be playing the 5. The 4 is now basically another SF.
yeah but the 5 still has to stay a 5 while being skilled. Still have to anchor the defense
Shard would still be a stretch 4 tho. He wasn't slow like most plodding stretch 4s. He was the original 3man playing the 4. Not sure what jj means here
4 generally is a big wing. You got versatile 4s like Siakam and John Collins who are still 4s but yeah, that position is a big forward. Not the traditional back-to-basket types.
@@Chronz Shard played poor defense. I do wonder how he would adjust to this era. That said, he would be a killer off the bench in this era.
KG was SF his rookie year 😂
The level of talent has increased so many players come in the league with a diverse the stretch four is still around somewhat but the game is more revolved around position-less players that can play/guard 1-5
Dirk showed the world that a 7 footer could shoot the ball. That's why centers are shooting 3's now. And teams had a horrible time trying to figure out how to defend him.
KG came before Dirk
The only thing Mavs were lacking was another big man who could shoot as a center and space the floor for dirk, already had a complete squad but I don't think even Kobe would defend that if a center shot the three. The ideal center would shoot, shot block / get offensive rebounds and play defense. Shaq wouldn't be able to guard that in that final.
@@BoosterGoldEarth6dirk a way better Shooter than KG
Naw Dirk Was before KD
@@omcritzy 2011 Tyson Chandler proves that false. We just needed a competent physical center
Interesting that the guys really credit Draymond with setting the example of how to play modern small ball. It's crazy to see the impact that first Warriors championship team had on the league
I love NBA Basketball so much...
Been a JJ fan since the clipper days.
KD is NBA royalty.
JJ: I’m not gonna name names…
KD: why not?
Lmaoooo
This was my favorite interview... Its smooth.
Warriors made teams realize who was playable and who isn’t, when tall uncoordinated 4s had to guard KD it literally made them unplayable
Even before kd was there. WhTs the point of having tall interior shot blockers if teams launch 3’s over your heads the whole game
Iso those goofy guys in space and they’re nothing. That’s what Kd helped bring
I miss the old school way of play. I miss the post up game and traditional bigs.
KD is extremely fidgety, its incredible. That man will never gain weight even if he wasn't a professional athlete.
well he's def not 'extremely" fidgety". I work in the healthcare field. I seen "extremely" fidgety. He's not even close to "extremely". But yeah he'll probably never gain weight due to his metabolism and genetics
@@macabree5856 exactly
@@macabree5856 Wow! I cant even imagine what extremely fidgety would look like. Crazy!
@@zfk1000 you’re wrong
As a mid range lover and Carmelo guy 0-1:15 made me appreciate Melo even more. Love these talks man. Such good insight
Carmelo was a traditional small forward can guard some 4s but in today’s nba he’s a 6’8 four
Defensive schemes also helped the undersizes big. Slow traditional bigs can be blitzed during double teams. If that big has low IQ and court awareness, the possession would likely end up in a forced shot, turnover or bad play. So the traditional unskilled big became obsolete and a target both on offense and defense. ImHO
Smart take
Agreed. Also the rules now reward facing the basket.
I love how his videos starts right away, no wasting time with some ish
Wow the knowledge they dropping proves there are definitely levels to this ish😂😂😂, salute for the 🔥 content!
That was the best interview of the channel
You need to get dirk on the podcast
These students of the game, who are good and great players in their own regard bring a new element of understanding for the audience and make the game more interesting. Thank you
LOL jj 😭😭😭😭 3:58 “what does he do”
Hi JJ Redick. I like the way you give a voice to NBA players in a very authentic way. Keep it up!
I would say the stretch 4 could be utilized in today’s game. Most teams play small, so playing big can be beneficial. For example if KAT played power forward it would allow him and the big playing next to him to dominate the board’s and lock up the paint. It would also allow KAT to post up on smaller players, whilst having a guy in the paint who can grab boards. The only issue with this play style is the possibility of bad perimeter defense and slow defensive transitions.
Reading this is nuts now because you basically predicted the twolves getting Gobert
Damn you knew exactly what the twolves were gonna do lol
You just saw that if you watched this season. Both kat and golbert were out matched in speed. And it'll open the three ball. If the warriors are consistent in the road, they'd destroy the wolves at home. Over all it just didn't work for the wolves and the nuggets still beat them 4-2. Nuggets did have enough size though
Also if kat is guarding the three and gets beat trying to catch up to a guard/ forward attacking the rim, golbert would leave his man open supposedly and that's like an easy bucket if you're big hunny.
Love this channel-real talk about the game not the bs regular sports talk about this guy or that guy wanted it harder.
“I’m not going to name them.” But I will put a picture of Dirk on my thumbnail 😂
I could listen to these 2 talk Basketball 🏀 all day!!!
The Orlando magic glory days…shard and hedo
Stretch 4s like the Ryan Anderson-types got phased out once the Warriors started their run a few years ago - along with the post-up 4s like Zach Randolph, David Lee & Lamarcus Aldridge.
You basically had to either be able to move up & play the 5 or play on the perimeter like a wing.
Some guys like Ibaka made the transition well, while others like Blake Griffin quickly fell off.
Most people won’t give him credit, but Draymond really changed the 4 position.
I don't know why Blake fell off. It's not like he was incapable of that transition. In fact, he made one of the most impressive transitions I've ever seen. He was playing like a lebron type player in Detroit fir a season before he fell off. He went from a pick and roll funking 4, to a ball handling passing and 3 point shooting 3. And did it WELL. And THEN he became terrible.
I dont think itll be all 6'9 players at once, i personally want a regular PG height out there like curry and a true rim protector and paint beast. The 3 "wing" postions will forever rotate. KD is my favorite player but i dont need 10 KDs out there tryna hoop against eachother. Teams with different play styles should be the norm, makes it more entertaining.
I was actually the originator of small ball like 15 years ago as a 19 year old playing NBA Live or 2k lol. I loved playing guys like Gallo at the 4 and dudes like Faried at the 5.
The philosophy of filling a team with skilled 6'9" players isn't something new. That was Pat Riley's philosophy during the Showtime era Lakers. They just happened to work it around Kareem
Dirk is the pioneer of all these shooting bigs now. Kd turned it up a notch. Now everyone's doing it. They have to thank Don Nelson for that. He was open to the idea of a 7-footer playing on the perimeter. He was the mastermind. That's why Dirk was my first idol, he was really different at the time. I like him coz he's one of a kind. Of course there's a lot of shooting bigs now.
Stretch 4's were nothing but power forwards who could hit 3's now mostly every NBA draft pick can hit 3's which makes today's game positionless
Fatherless too
I’ve been saying this. The talent in the whole league has gotten better
I think at some point a dominant back to the basket big could change things even further. Time will tell.
The league needs dominate force. Not embiid because he shoots more than he posts up. Like a real dominate big man. But the way these generation of players are coming out, we’ll probably never see that. Unless someone decides to go against the grain.
@@NV_Tensa Embiid post up as much than he shoot, also posting up doesn't mean you can't shoot while doing it and that's what Embiid does just like Ewing and Robinson was able to shoot middys too. Jokic is dominant back to the basket but he is an balkans bigs which means that he is more complete than traditional bigs
There are dominant back to the basket bigs rn as we speak. They’re just more skilled and complete offensively. They can work from the perimeter but when they get to the block they’re still a problem.
Theres gonna be a player like that but he gonna be able to pull up from 30 too
@@NV_Tensa Nah embiid is the ideal back to the basket dude who can do EVERYTHING. Absolute beast in the paint.
"What does he do?"
😂 Love the honesty.
Anyone who's created a character in 2K has thought to themselves "Why isn't the NBA exclusively athletic 7 foot guys who can dribble, shoot, and guard well?". If there were enough guys like that out there, I think that's what the NBA would become, just like they said. If the US ever gets youth training programs on par with Europe, it's not farfetched.
OTE is pretty much that. We are moving towards that.
It just shows you how much of a monster MJ was to score 37 without 3s against two bigs...
Don't forget Lamar Odom..would be beastin today!
One of the best ball convos on the internet
That's why they did wrong to Thon Maker. He's this type of player. Not a center. It's a shame that with his skill, agility and drive he got fooled by coaches after the Milwaukee Bucks.
Most coaches still don't know what to do with most of this players. They're still afraid of playing them to their strengths and rather play them to the traditional positions and playbooks.
Even the awards for all NBA teams gotta stop with the positions and award the best players. This year is the perfect example. Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, KD and one of Luka, Morant or LeBron should be the 1st team.
in 2006 there were 16 pf/c in the top 40players in scoring. a month ago i looked it up again. this year there was 6 in the top 40 scoring......6!!!!!!! its a g/sf game now!
Finding only 6'9" and taller people to fill roster spots would be hard even for the NBA.
the raptors damn near doing this right now haha
@@v2huhroon That's one team though. Also, they have no real center, and of those 6'6" - 6'8" forwards that they have, I'd say only like 2 of them are skilled enough to handle guard duties.
Joker, Embiid & Giannis are so damn skilled for their size. The handle they have and touch around the rim is amazing. If your almost 7ft tall your expected to have some finesse or else you'll be out of the league quick
If ur a hoop junkie like me, this podcast is like ear-heroin. JJ put the hook in me n now I'm addicted
Thought I was the only one this this the only place to find high level basketball conversation
I swear I'm a hooked like phonics.
Are you new? Did you go back into the archives? Back in the Bubble? This podcast is why I know that anyone who thinks the bubble championship was fake or easy is a casual.
lmao IDGAF about the bubble! What a strange comment. Did I even mention "the bubble"? No. Is it a crime to re-listen to old pods of players I respect & whose opinions I value? Get that hate out of your heart
@@EJ-jw9ow? Sorry? I wasn't trying to imply that you did.... That's just back when this version of the podcast started. I was wondering if you listened to it back then or went back to is all. The conversation with players back then was amazing. I'm pretty sure we agree about the pod, didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't....
It amazes me.. seriously amazes me that as good as these guys are, they can’t even see the last two championship teams won playing big lineups. A center, 2 PF, SF, ball handler
All it takes is for a franchise to have identities again. Everybody wants to shoot hella 3s only because GSW made it popular. The position don’t matter as long as you can hit 3s & defend.
Every year it seems a franchise has a new system to conform to the new players they get rather than players getting with the program of that organization. I believe a team that has good perimeter defense, slower pacing and traditional positions can be successful today
Slow teams exist today, miami philly and boston are slow half court teams, the main problem with stretch 4s are their inability to defend the pick and roll. You cant just sag off the handler today and call it a day.
@@markpagtama7954 can't speak for miami cause I haven't seen them play but philly and boston have ball dominant players. Lot of their offense is their stars getting a shot they want. From what I'm hearing, miami is the only team out the three that's close to having an identity and that's really just from culture. Correct me if im wrong on that. 4s and 5s in general cant gaurd a smaller quicker player. That dont mean Im not gonna pick up Kristaps Porzingis on my team if I have the chance and need him. And I wont put a 3 in the 4 place just to say they can put a body on anybody. If that's truly a player skillset like ben simmons, then fine. But everybody is not like that. There's a flaw in every type of lineup or style of play
@@yoitmeree thats ehat theyre talking about in the podcast, instead of playing a guy like kristaps in the 4 you put him in the 5 because youre going to play a team with someone like kd in the 4 thats going to abuse your defense.
@@markpagtama7954 If they wanna do that, that sounds like the interior d would get softer. KD size can put a body on a 4 but that's straight post work for that 4. How long could kd put effort in low post D and still be efficient offensively before getting gassed or foul trouble? Now I know its a double edge sword, cause kd is gonna torch whoever is in front of him. This is the same problem GS had during they championship era(before kd). Small ball & can shoot the lights out. But they never had a good C and teams that played big exposed that defense. Majority of the league tried to copy them and lost because they tryna play GS game rather than play to their strengths. You're gonna lose that matchup one way or another vs draymond if you try to put a smaller guy on him that doesn't typically play frontcourt just because he's small for his position. To me postionless basketball is just fancy term for my team is lacking in a certain area. I'm rambling. I'm not in the nba, so what do I know
@@yoitmeree thats the thing they dont have to, play small, get the ball in transition fast, abuse the slow 4 in half court. Dare the other team to outscore kd on the 4 with a low post player. Its just not possible.
The game will keep expanding to 5 people who can shoot 3s, but eventually a dominating center will come that will change the game again. Its happens in every sport, basketball just happens to be a little slow in this instance. But in tennis you see pretty regular changes from power, speed, or technical skill sets.
Oh man Kd loves Basketball. i love that about him
he's in the nba 😭😭😭😭
@@chriswilliams6659 so? There’s so many nba players that don’t love basketball and r just there because they r good at it
@@chriswilliams6659 You think everybody that does their job well enjoys it?
@@kuhfusskatsadventures Faulty comparison. These guys are the best of the best of the best at something. To get here they've had to obsess about basketball. Live it, breathe it. All consuming. Not the same as some Joe Shmoe clocking in for a 9-5 to put food on the table for his family.
It's a safe bet that nearly all NBA players love/enjoy basketball. They might not like the travel, talking to the media, rehab, etc but rest assured the core game of basketball is their life's work and they love it.
@@MazevG kyrie
I love this JJ podcast!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Except every 6’9” guard ain’t magic and guys like Kyle Lowry and Chris Paul are way better to build a team around then Ben Simmons.
This is better than ESPN on any given Sunday
Davis Bertans is the only classic stretch four I can think of. Are there more left?
Maxi kleber when he runs the 4
@@ATF- Idk if I would classify him as pure stretch four. He rim runs and is the Mavs´ primary rim protector. Maybe a two-way-stretch?
@@Goxilla Alright then Markkenen, at least when lonzo playing
Danilo Gallinari is a classic stretch 4
AD cos he refuses to play the 5 lol
Invented... stretch 4s was one of the reasons I liked the 90s Sonics so much, Schrempf, Perkins and Kemp, could all shoot 3s, Kemp more 18 foot jumper and all could post up.
Thank you KD for saying what I have been yelling at ppl about Dray for years. The stephen curry and Draymond PNR changed the nba.
He didn’t say that tho
“What does he do?”
Hahahahahah
I somewhat disagree with the 6’9 take. The little guy will always have a spot in the league. You need speed and shiftiness. The bigger the player, the slower. Guys like Lebron & KD can move, but not like Ja Morant or Trae Young. Even big guards with speed like Lonzo & Lamelo can’t guard the little guys
They'll be seen more as role players than starting 5
Agreed.
its true that they are shifty as hell, but they will also be a defensive liability. boston had defensive liabilities for years with IT and kemba, but now they just put Smart at the 1 and they could use their length and good team defense to counter the smaller guys
Lonzo can 100 percent guard the "little guys", his perimeter defense is elite
They’ll always have a spot buy that spot will begin to diminish if they can start finding more 6’9-6’10 guys like Ben Simmons with good defensive instincts and athletic ability to match quick little guys
there were a lot of good 4s in the era previous to this one. Stoudemire, Dirk, Webber, Duncan, KG, Sheed, O'Neal, Gasol, Josh Smith (ATL days)
I’m only 21 n it’s blatantly obvious how u can’t guard niggas anymore without getting a whistle. Waters it down for me personally
Im telling you this podcast will have a million subs before the end of the year, easy.
it's so weird to me that KD was drafted 1 year after JJ. sometimes I forget how long KD has been in the league
Let's put things into perspective. When he was drafted, the OKC Thunder was still the Seattle Supersonics. So, yeah, KD's been here a while
0:33 Even Kobe talked about this!! He said in the beginning was easy to stop him because he was too unidimensional.
Imagine saying first.
O ngwana
@@sandilesibanyoni2244 Was.
@@chefverse4948 اع٧٧٩
The great thing about this pod is that guys just geek out on this stuff....none of the soap opera content you see on ESPN and Fox.
I think The Process, The Joker, and The Freak are showing that this is not true. It's just this era. Like everybody started running the West Coast offense until Baltimore was like f%&@ that let's go punch everybody in the mouth. At some point you are going to get a very skilled "Shaq" and then everybody is going to look for that.
Yeah everyone talk about how Jokic and Embiid can shoot 3s but most of their production comes from being paint monsters
No, old era doesn't have less skilled players. The skillsets are just different.
Who over 21 watches the nba anymore. It’s an elite level aau game. Sprint down . Pick and roll. Fire it up in 10- 12 seconds. Run back on defense. It’s like watching someone play madden on rookie mode
How anyone can hate on KD is beyond me, dude is such a legend.
They hate that he could of pretty much won a championship by himself some people think cus he’s that good
JJ wanted to keep Ryan and Brandon’s name out of it 🤣🤣
Who is Ryan and Brandon?
@@blitzy7961 Ryan Anderson and Brandon Bass
@@brotheris33 they were both trash
I loved!!!! That Orlando team I was really really hoping yall would've gotten a all star point guard
Rip Hamilton floppy action!!!! HAHA
Rip was my favorite player
RIP!! HAAAAAAMILLLTOOOON
His movement off the ball maybe the best ever, maybe Reggie has him.
When dirk sfirst started out he used to be able to run from coast to coast and shoot over anyone.. Its just that peopel remember him as, the guy that do postup and shoot the one legend fadeaway..
The numbers in the NBA are definitely inflated now days.
The raw stats you can generate if your talented enough is just insane.
If you just looked at the stats you’d think Booker was prime Kobe, Joel was Shaq, Lebron and derozan were at their peaks, and Jokic is the goat. Not to mention Luka putting up damn near 30/10/10 lol.
It’s a joke, not to say they all aren’t great players and extremely talented in their own right. But the league has changed a lot.
The NBA needed the Dream Team to help start the trend of making basketball a global game.. every year the talent pool increases and eventually you will have a large enough global talent pool that you will see bigger more athletic kids coming into the NBA from a global scale
K Got It
: Stretch four is basically what the 5 does now. Idea of a stretch big was so that you could still play in the post. Nowadays the four is a taller / more athletic 3 or a 3.
Ross Sherman: It feels like the stretch four just got here. But JJ is right: the stretch four has already died out. Man, I'm old.
4heavens8k
: Basketball is now positionless. We have Point Centers, Point Forwards, Power Guards etc. You name it, there’s a player with that skillset. The game is just that diverse/skilled.
Like these comments :)
I don’t think the traditional starting five is dead but basketball is definitely evolving to being versatile if ur point guard u need to be able to slide to the shooting guard and play off the ball and create ur own shot. Small forwards should be able to switch to the four and obviously the center spot is strictly the five unless u can space the floor from midrange to the three
it's never going to be all 6'9" guys on the court. because then there's no size advantage that either team has. if every player or at least starter is the same height and similar weight...
@Jim Brave In the 70's they were also already playing small using 6'9 bigs like Cowens, Reed, McAdoo, Hayes
Agree. If you are all 6'9", then the 6'2" and 6'5" guards would have an easy job to break defenses as bigger players have harder time to cover shifty and skilled guards like Ja, Curry and Dame.
That is because instead of the roles of the 4 and 5 being interchangeable, the roles of 1, 3 and 4 have become a lot more interchangeable. E.g. Luka Doncic, is he a small forward, a point guard or a power forward? 5's can now shoot and play-make like Embiid or Jokic. So the future of the league is going to be 4 Lukas and a Trae Young per team
Beat my lineup;
G - Curry
G - Jordan
F - KD
F - Giannis
C - Jokic
G-Magic
G/Kobe
F-Bron
F-Dirk
C-Hakeem
Only reason I put Dirk at the 4 so he can space out the paint for Hakeem and Hakeem at center since he can defend the paint from Giannis.
@Jim Brave this the most old read delusional comment I’ve ever seen 😂 you exposed tf put yourself with that “maybe even sf” and I hate KD
I won’t even use Magic and Bron & I’ll use guys in 1 era. This is a 7 game series.
G - Chris Paul
G - Kobe Bryant
F - Tracy McGrady
F - Tim Duncan
C - Shaquille O’Neal
I do the same lineup but I substitute KD with Lebron
Done.
Bron
Klay
Kawhi
Durant
Embiid
I always love it when JJ has another basketball savant on, like Draymond or KD. I feel like I’m eavesdropping on a masters class in basketball.
Draymond didnt start that. Don Nelson did it. Then D’antoni with Shawn Marion and Amare playing the 4-5. And Shawn Marion played way better than Draymond. And then Miami with Bosh Manning the 5 and Bron manning the 4.
I wouldn’t say Marion or Bosh were primary ball handlers though. And both were amazing defenders but idk if they were better than draymond guarding the 1-5. He was one of the best interior and perimeter defenders in the league. I also don’t think Marion was “way” better than draymond. Both played much different roles but I’d say draymond played his role better personally. Other than curry he was the most valuable player to that warrriors team. We saw it this year even when he went down to injury the warriors sucked.
Kevin love with the wolves was amazing