John 1:3, A Non-Genesis-Creation Interpretation: All Happened Through Him
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- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2024
- What if John 1:3 is translated as "all happened through him, and without him nothing happened" (compare the Literal Standard Version and Young's Literal Translation)?
Would you think John 1 was describing the Genesis creation? Probably not.
Almost all deity-of-Christ and Arian readers of the Bible understand John 1:3-4 to be a statement about the involvement of the Logos of John 1:1 in the Genesis creation of the physical universe. The Logos of John 1:1 is taken to be a pre-incarnate divine person or being distinct from the God of John 1:1b, either one member of a co-equal “godhead” (Trinitarianism), or a subordinate god/angel (Arianism) who eventually became incarnated as Jesus.
Some Biblical Unitarians also interpret John 1:3-4 in a Genesis creation context, but maintain that the Logos of John 1:1 is not a literal person, only a personification of God’s Wisdom or Plan involved in the Genesis creation.
In contrast, this presentation interprets the Prologue of John, focusing on verses 3-4, as introducing a new beginning in the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth, and not directly describing the Genesis creation of the physical universe.
For full text, see here:
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For those that disagree that the "all" that "came to be" or "happened" in John 1:3, a challenge:
1. Of the 65 times the word is used in John's Gospel, where is "all" used to mean "all the material, physical, created universe".
2. Of the 51 times in John's Gospel where a form of the word "came to be/happened" (17 times in the exact form the word appears in John 1:3) is used, where else does the author use it to mean "created"?
In other words, why do the literal translations (mentioned in the podcast) translate as all things "happened" in John 1:3?
It’s always a treat when I see a notification that you released a new video!
💯
Thanks Bill. I appreciate your perspective, and I agree with what you said about things coming to be, rather than being created. I thought about this myself a while ago when I read the verse in Greek, but then I wasn't knowledgeable enough of Greek to be sure that this was a legitimate translation. So, thanks for giving it some more legs to stand on.
However, I still find myself leaning toward the word being the words of God, rather than the person Jesus. And I believe this understanding can still fit well with John's beginning being that of the new creation. All the gospels including John use 'the word' as referring to God's word, or the gospel message itself, so it would seem consistent for John 1 to also have that meaning. Therefore, we could say, in the beginning of the new creation was the gospel message, and that was with God, and was part of him, or was divine.
And all things happened or came to be through that gospel message. Even Jesus came to be through it. That is, he came into existence as the fulfilment of the gospel proclaimed to Abraham. Gabriel also spoke that same word to Mary, and it became flesh in her womb. And without that message/promise, nothing of what we read about in the gospels came about. In other words, Jesus' life, ministry, message, and disciples, all came to be because God had promised his messiah in the first place.
Thanks for the comment. To help focus the discussion, I like to ask people where they first think the man, the human person Jesus of Nazareth, is mentioned either literally or metaphorically in John 1.
For instance, is not the human person, the man Jesus "the L/light" that John the Baptizer was not, but came to bear witness to? (1:8)
@@billschlegel1 Yes, it seems that Jesus is indeed the light spoken of in verse 4. And I think that's where I would pinpoint the change from speaking about God's word to the person Jesus. I would understood the verse to read, 'In it (God's word) was life, and the life was the light of men (Jesus).' Or perhaps, 'In it (God's word) was life (Jesus), and that life was the light of men.' I think either could be correct as Jesus described himself as both the light of the world, and the life. That is, God's word foretold that Jesus, the life and light, would come into existence. Or put another way, in the word was the life giving message, which was the light of men. And that light was fully revealed by the man Christ Jesus.
We could also read the whole of verse 4 as referring to God's word, which contained life, and gave light. And then only in verse 5 see the change to the man Jesus with the phrase 'And the light shines in the darkness...' As if to say, God's word had been giving light for centuries, but then it fully shone out with the manifestation of the son of God.
Obviously, I recognise Jesus can be the word, because he spoke it authoritatively, just as he can be the life, because he gives life. So, I don't discount the possibility that Jesus could be referred to as 'the word.' I just believe that 'the word' as a reference to God's speech/message is a fully workable explanation. And is arguably a more straightforward one. That is, if we've gone through the Old Testament understanding 'the word' to refer to God's words, then by the time we reach John's gospel it would be consistent to think of it in the same way.
Amen.
In response to this video, the cry ‘Jesus is God’ will invariably be heard.
Those that say it have not understood what they are proposing. When Jesus returns, we will be like him for we shall see him as he is. 1 Jn 3:2
The logical conclusion of Jesus being God is ‘you will be like God’ …
As the author of the Gospel of John directly told his readers, he wrote so that his readers would "believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" (20:31). In the Bible, the Son of God is never God (but can represent God).
Bill is this the full presentation? Like this a lot:)
There is a planned part 2 coming hopefully next week.
Excellent
In the end, "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (kurios, master)." Not that Jesus Christ is God (Theos).
Who was in the world and the world was created through him ( John 1:10 ) ? Man Jesus ? No ! John points directly to LOGOS as LIGHT which is the logical order of the world created by God and points to HIM as Creator ! Logos as synonym of Father's Wisdom was with Him from eternity and also was present in the world from moment of creation because the world was created through Wisdom of God ( Proverbs 8:22-35).
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God by its wisdom, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe." 1 Corinthians 1:21
However because of blindness caused by sin humanity does not see the wisdom contained in LOGOS, therefore it was necessary to raise up second Adam as a living House for the Wisdom of God ! And not only to teach us about True God but what is most important become the firstborn of the new mankind united with the Spirit of the Father ! ( has spiritual sight )
That is why Paul wrote that we have the mind of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:15-16 ) it means that we can move in the understanding of God's Wisdom as Sons of God ( John 1:12-13 ).
The beginning of John's Gospel ( John 1:1) contains encoded in gematry Euler mathematic constant which points to the logarithmic and fractal order of the universe !