"Best Ergonomic" Mouse & "Most Ergonomic" Keyboard: Objective Criteria To Evaluate Ergonomics
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- There is a huge market for ergonomic mice and ergonomic keyboards. In the office or at home, we spend so much time on screen that at some point, most of us have neck pain, shoulder pain, elbow pain (e.g., tennis elbow) or wrist pain (e.g., carpal tunnel syndrome).
If you look for the most ergonomic mouse and keyboard, you will quickly be lost. Here are some explanation by a posture therapist and ergonomics expert. I will tell you about
compact keyboard (Logitech K380) vs. standard keyboard (Logitech K330)
1'55'': angled keyboard (Logitech K860, Microsoft Sculpt)
2'45'': wrist rests (incl. Logitech MX Palm Rest)
5'23'': standard mouse and travel mouse
6'40'': trackball (Logitech MX Ergo)
8'47'': vertical mouse (Evoluent, Logitech MX Vertical)
10'02'': RollerMouse
11'08: touchpad, like you have on your laptop (central pointing device)
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Medical Disclaimer
All information, content, and material of this website is for informational purposes only and are not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a qualified physician or healthcare provider.
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Pain in the back, shoulder, arms or any other musculoskeletal pain should not govern your life.
A lot of the pain you feel is caused or aggravated by wrong posture, poor ergonomics and a lack of specific exercises for your muscles and joints. Giving you the tools to resolve these issues is the reason why I created this self care channel.
If you need more, check out these two innovative offers that will truly empower you in the subtle art of posture correction:
you can get THE POSTURE MANUAL, my best-selling book with 15 readers-only posture correction videos - only if you buy it from my website: oliviergirard....
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Medical Disclaimer
All information, content, and material of this website is for informational purposes only and are not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a qualified physician or healthcare provider.
Full disclaimer:
oliviergirard....
So many concepts cleared so simply and compactfully. Thank you sir!
Great video, very informative and covers a lot of options. Many thanks, superb!
A truly informative video! This clearly explained why some are designed the way they are, this video was very helpful. Thank You!
Thanks for the feedback, dear!
The most comfortable mouse I have ever tried is the Kensington Expert. Second to that, the Kensington Orbit Fusion. You should check them out (massive review/comparisons on my channel, between other things). Thumb trackballs are just one side of the trackball story, but when it comes to ergonomics, the big ball in the center really helps to ease the tension. I really enjoy your videos btw, thanks so much for all the precious info ;)
I agree Kensington Orbit is the best for me, it allows me to use my left hand while my right hand can rest and vice versa
What a great find on your videos, super thoughtful material...
What worked for me is getting a keyboard without a numpad also called 75% and a smaller mouse. I feel much more comfortable. Good luck.
Thanks so much for this lecture 💚
Really nice video. You explained everything perfectly!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi @Olivier, thank you so much for the content and amazing information.
I am doing a very mouse-intensive job and got Carpal tunnel pain using a normal mouse as you describe. I changed my desk set-up following you advices and also started using the MX Vertical. It was great for about month but now again I can't work with my right hand because of pain in the whole arm.
The only solution I found is to use a mouse with my left hand in order to rest the right.
I would love to have an alternative where I can have both of my hands resting vertically in front of me and preferably not moving. Did you ever try the trackballs such as Kensington Slimblade, Orbit, Expert? What is you take on these for ergonomy?
Thank you.
Nice job, loved the video
Amazing, thank you. I have been watching many of these videos and yours are the best!
What is your opinion on using the traditional ThinkPad TrackPoint, the red-dot mouse button in the center of the keyboard keys, is this ergonomic over a trackpad?
I am trying to find ways to rotate from always using a mouse to reduce fatigue of repetitive motion (my lower palm/wrist is hurting) so I have both the mx vertical mouse as well as the evoluent verticalmouse D shipping to my home to try. Do you also recommend to rotate to using a separate trackpad as well?
I just started using a compact wireless keyboard (Lenovo TrackPoint II) and have a ergo chair (Leap V2) which has solved my back-pain and shoulder/arm pain. I hope to solve the final piece of the puzzle!
That's a very good question, dear! The ThinkPad TrackPoint falls into the family of central pointing devices, i.e. things that are in front of your belly button. The issue when using them is that you will tend to round your shoulders (the right one at least), i.e. your collar bone will move forward. Same issue with a trackpad on the laptop. The best position for the peripherals is right in front of your elbows. Hence, the separate trackpad can be better, especially if you use it on your left with a vertical mouse on your right. This will balance the load across the two arms (you can keep the gross mouse actions for the left side if you're not so comfortable at the beginning).
Now, technology will not bring you all the way. Next to this, you will need to work on organization = how you schedule your working time and breaks. My advice is: take a small break every 30 min, get up from your chair and do my famous upper body reset: ruclips.net/video/yxIkf36TRD4/видео.html. With that, you'll be one step further.
And the last step will be working on the very details of your posture... that's yet an other full chapter, but I'm happy to assist if you need!!
@@OlivierGirard Thanks Olivier. I agree, I have been also focusing on my posture which has helped significantly since my previous chair had no adjustable lumbar, arms, or seat pan so I was slouching a lot. I do need to take more breaks so I will focus on incorporating your upper body reset as well. Do you have an opinion on motorized sit-stand desks to help alleviate carpal tunnel stress and improve overall ergonomics?
Hi Oliver. What do you think of this new thing I got a sample of? It's a "vertical mousepad" made by Orb Control, MouseRamp. I use a mouse intensively for 3D modeling at my computer. It's been working for me, and I prefer using it over my vertical mouse these days. I just use a regular mouse on it in a "handshake" position.
Another really useful video Olivier. What do you think (or know) about split keyboards which are separable? I've been looking at the Kinesis Freestyle 2 Keyboard which allows you to have two flat keyboards one for each hand. I find that when I type as you recommend my elbows are too close to my sides. I am interested in the Kinesis keyboard because it would allow me to key my arms and wrists straight. Any thoughts? Merci.
Thank you so much for encouraging me :) !! I love the way you frame your question, because it shows that you have very clear ideas: what matters is that the elbows are close to your sides and that the wrists are straight. Split keyboards can allow you to achieve this, but you need to be a typist to use them. The other point is that you have more adjustability than other curved keyboards, which is good and bad: good because you can adjust it to your very need, bad because you need a certain level of expertise (which you seem to have!) to do this well.
The only further potential drawback we could maybe cite is that there's no wrist rest (at least not that I know) so you won't be able to rest the weight of your forearms anywhere. Not necessarily a drama if you don't have any wrist extension (I don't use a wrist rest either) and if you use your latissimus dorsi well (that could be my next video!!), but worth noticing.
@@OlivierGirard Thank you for the detailed replay. It's very useful for me especially as I am planning to use it for regular typing. Any "expertise" I have comes from watching your videos and following your excellent, clear and detailed advice. A video about using the latissimus dorsi well sounds like an excellent idea. Thanks again.
Hey dear... here is the latissimus dorsi video: ruclips.net/video/uZqVPBeOhzA/видео.html ... I hope you’ll enjoy it!!
Another great video Girard, what about finger rollerball mice? Better or worse than thumb?
Superb question! There are different points there:
- how precise you are with each finger
- the fact that thumb-activated mice can not spread the load across several fingers, whilst on the finger rollerball mice you can use the index or the 3rd finger
- the fact that in many other occupations (e.g. smartphone), the thumb is already excessively used.
Hence, my intuitive answer would be to say: if you like a finger rollerball mouse, stick to it :) !! Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard thank you!
Excellent!
Thank you
Great video! I'm curious, what do you think of the split keyboards?
Thank you! Split keyboards are meant to keep your wrists straight (limit ulnar deviation). But the risk is that you spread the elbows. The other thing is that they are exclusively meant for people who can type with both hands: you can't cross left and right. So honestly, I prefer my Logitech K380 to the K860, but I know people who love the latter :)
@Olivier - so I have been trying different mice since I started feeling wrist pain from working out and now when working. I had the Mx 3 from Logitech but when doing video editing for modules it cause stress in my hands. I was recommended to try the Mx ergo trackball. Have been trying it for about a week and a half but I feel stress in my wrist(near thumb area) and upper forearm. Not sure if maybe I am just not using it correctly. So now I am thinking of trying the Logitech vertical mouse. Would you recommend this over the trackball? Or maybe I am holding the trackball mouse incorrectly or something. Any advice?
Hey dear! Your feedback is very useful indeed, thank you! In my opinion, what MX3 and MX Ergo (trackball) have in common in the forearm posture (rather pronated, i.e. hand palm facing down). This isn't neutral, neither for the forearm nor for the elbow (you tend to spread it). That's where MX Vertical comes, and that's why I tend to recommend it indeed. In your case (very mouse-intensive activity), I believe that it's a good idea to spread the effort over many muscle fibers: with the trackball, all the effort is concentrated in your hand whereas with MX Vertical you will also mobilize the arm and shoulder muscles.
Once you get the MX Vertical, make sure that you don't use it too far to the side as this would increase wrist extension. A compact keyboard is a useful complement.
On a more personal note, I have tried to edit my RUclips videos with the trackball too, and I don't manage well. I shiver a bit and I'm not precise enough for drag and drop (I use VSDC video editor, btw). As I result, there's a lot of tension in my hand and forearm.
Now, bear in mind that video editing is one of the most hazardous activities, because it's mouse-intensive and because of a high visual attention which pushes the head forward (ruclips.net/video/hdJ1H--uQnI/видео.html). Hence,
- try and use your keyboard shortcuts as much as you can (e.g., type the durations and starting times instead of dragging the segments)
- take super frequent breaks and do the full muscle relaxation exercise (ruclips.net/video/yxIkf36TRD4/видео.html)
- get your eyes check every years.
Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard Yea, Everything makes sense! Thank you for the thorough details, greatly appreciate it!
I started using vertical mice recently, for games Speedlink SOVOS and for office Natec Euphonie which can be also branded as Trust Voxx or other brands on amazon ( CSL - Optical Vertical Mouse Wireless and others...) . My hand started to feel better. for keyboards I started to save money on Kinesis Advance 2 since I like mechanical ones. Right now I am using uRage Exodus 900 and for office Natec Genesis Thor 300 RGB with additional gel wrist rest. Also gaming chair saved my back, Natec Genesis Nitro 950.
Waoh, you're well equipped!! On this gaming chair, is your lumbar cushion adjustable in height?
@@OlivierGirard yes you can change height of it
Great tips!
Speaking about carpal tunnel pains and such, what do you think about those Powerball wrist exercisers? Would using one of those strengthen one's wrist and prevent future pains?
Thank you!! That’s a great question.
Honesty, I think that wrist pain is not because of weakness, but because of overuse. Why would your wrists be too weak (unless you had an accident, operation, etc.)?? That’s what I try to explain in this video: ruclips.net/video/4PVI9cnMJo8/видео.html. Weakness can be an issue in what I call balance / posture muscles, but not in the others: your neck, arms, wrists will never suffer from being too relaxed.
In other words, you have to analyze your pain in terms of: « what am I doing in excess? », not in terms of « how can I strengthen? ». In particular, look at forward head posture (because it can radiate pain in the carpal tunnel area; ruclips.net/video/hdJ1H--uQnI/видео.html) and wrist extension (hence, investigate if keyboard shortcuts help: ruclips.net/video/0AL8teHZros/видео.html).
Does it make sense?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you, I think I get it. Strengthening muscles won't help undo or prevent the damages of bad posture.
@@magenta4926 Exactly :-) It's about resolving the root causes, not the symptoms...
You have so much material all for free thx so much ❤
You see where my week-ends go !! :) Thank you for the appreciation, it keeps me going!
very useful! thanks
If you use a CAD software such as AutoCAD etc, scroll wheel is a must.
Very informative. Thank you. Could you also have a review on the 3M joystick-like mouse ?
Hi Shahram! Many years ago, this mouse was called ANIR mouse, and it was my first encounter with the concept :) Looking back at it, I would say that's it's quite rigid if I compare it with e.g., the MX Vertical. The 3M will react only to elbow and shoulder movements, whilst MX Vertical will also react to wrist movements. It's neither good or bad, it just depends on what you want for the user.
The other thing that worried me back then is the fact that all the clicks on the 3M are with the thumb. Hence, if it's sensitive it's not your best choice (neither is a trackball, btw).
Last but not least (and it's also not a real ergonomic problem), there's no scroll wheel on 3M. I find scroll wheels very bad for your hand and forearm muscles so no problem from my perspective, but I know that some people love it.
Does it answer your question :) ?¨
@@OlivierGirard definitely. Thanks again
@@OlivierGirard actually I am wondering why there is no mouse in the form of Atari Pilot Joystick yet manufactured.
Hey Oliver, I switched to Logetich Vertical Mouse a few months ago and it has completly messed up my forearms and wrist. I was very shocked because I know that everyone says that vertical mouse is supposed to be better
Hey mate! I have seen this in people who keep using a wrist rest with their vertical mouse. It creates a lateral deviation of the wrist. Is that your case?
@@OlivierGirard nope, I don't use a wrist rest with my mouse. I feel like the vertical mouse is just so awkward and hard to hold and move , which leads to me having to grip it harder
@@adamthewoodworker2571 it could be that another model with a different size / grip is better for you then. You would keep the neutral position of the wrist but reduce the static strain... Have a look at the Unimouse from Contour. As it's adjustable in tilt angle, you may have more flexibility to adapt :)
@@OlivierGirard very interesting. I was actually going to ask for your thoughts on trackballs. Not the kind that have the trackball added on to a mouse, but an actual standalone trackball. I was thinking of getting one to avoid using a mouse altogether
As someone from the community of gaming mouse enthusiasts, trust me that there is no "one size fits all". Mice of different shapes and sizes will each require different grip styles between users, and there will be certain combinations that are completely incompatible with certain people. However, the fundamental principles of ergonomics are universal to all.
Unfortunately, the only solution is to experiment via trial and error, and this can mean purchasing multiple products before you find the right match. I'd imagine that the dimensions of your hands simply aren't suitable for that particular Logitech mouse.
Since you asked about trackballs: from my layman's experience they only transfer the stress/strain to different muscles & tendons. Many people love them and obtain great progress in comfort, while others absolutely hate them.
Thanks 🙏
There's another useful one for guitarists ;) : ruclips.net/video/UitiV6V5dNo/видео.html
how much distance is between the desk and your legs?
Vertically?
@@OlivierGirard yes, thank you in advance. I've been having pain in my arm for a very long time, and I tryied every posture posible :7
15 cm between the top of my thighs and the desk. But honestly it doesn't mean anything: if I would have bigger thighs the distance would be less, but still correct. What you probably need it to check out this video on desk height: ruclips.net/video/Tse6AWnVgpY/видео.html . Enjoy your WE!!
Do you recommend penguin mouse or wowpen?
Very honestly, I have never tried the wowpen... but my experience is that this is very user-dependent and task-dependent. Hence, my advice would be to try both and see for yourself.
@@OlivierGirard Ok. Thanks.