the year is 20CC, Roy meta has progressed so much that every match comes down to who holds down the left stick harder to crouch cancel the enemy's pool noodle.
I remember going to my first super major where I got to play friendlies with Axe. We were playing mostly Falco dittos, when someone came up to Axe and asked if it was true that a skilled Roy could beat any Fox. Axe turns to me and says "hey man, can you go fox next game?" I said yes and he went Roy. I got my shit pushed in.
@@harb1ng3r82 Plot its ok, gameplay its definitely one of the harder in the series. Sure Im not going to say its top tier but if you compare it to like most fe games its usually consistently hard, and more than half of the time the game's ambush spawns are fair.
So lemme get this straight, 20XX is like the dystopian future that we want too avoid by fulfilling the prophecy where ROY, our boi, happens to be the main hero?
@@turndownforwalt 100 years passed and my Falcon and I discovered the new Skilled Roy, a Marth Main named Zain. And although his edgeguarding skills are great, he's got a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone (Roy death sound). But I believe Zain can save Melee.
It's cause the Melee tier list is accurate, but the skill levels and depth of knowledge is so deep in Melee that a Roy could devastate 99% of the community because it's in a master (like Zain)'s hands. I think the tier list is made with comparable skill levels in mind, which generally isn't the case when the level of Melee being played demands stronger tiered characters for more consistent success.
The statement was actually true once, when a Roy named neo reached top 10 pgr. A lot of people don’t know about neo since he isn’t mentioned in the doc, but he’s actually the best Roy of all time. He has some notable tournament results such as #2 at MLG Chicago 2005, losing to Ken who was unstoppable at the time, 4th at MLG Washington D.C 2005 losing to ken again, 5th at MLG New York and he even qualified for the MLG National Championships where he placed 8th. Peaked at rank #6 with fucking Roy, in a lan environment I don’t think even zain can do that
And he *was* mentioned in the doc, if I recall correctly. At least one interviewer (maybe Wife?) mentioned him along Ken and Mew2king as a marth player.
Everyone always talks about Chillindude getting 5-0'd by Leffen, but they never talk about how Chillin during the time period he was the best fox player in the world, he got outranked by a Roy at 1 point.
You could check AsumSaus's analysis video on Roy. There's a lot of spaghetti programming regarding the character alone possibly owing to the fact that they tried to copy Marth's character with a lot of changed parameters. It didn't look like a copy and paste job considering there were misplaced and missing flags, badly synchronized hitbox to animation sequences, values having missing or added digits, or said values causing glitches to how the game reads Roy's actions.
2022 the return of Armada, but he will only go Kirby and convince people to only pick Brinstar and he will rise to the top again thanks to his favourite cheese.
ALSO as someone who plays Roy frequently; the jab -> side b -> up b edgeguards were unnecessary. He could've forward tilted or wet noodle downsmashed, which is actually how I could tell that it was Zain playing and not a Roy main.
Dude y’all existed back in like 06 and before. I’ve never met a Roy main that wasn’t from that era. I came in 2014 and as far as I can tell Roy mains are myth.
I think a better discussion about Roy's strengths and weaknesses really is necessary to understand what Zain did. There's a reason the mantra is "a skilled Roy" and not "a skilled Kirby". Roy is possibly the weakest character that still has enough tools to pull off scalps like this. That said, bracket luck was absolutely needed. Zain never encountered a Peach or Samus, and those would've probably been the end of his run.
I do think a skilled kirby can beat anyone... *once*. That doesn't mean winning a tournament. That doesn't even mean winning a set. But I remember seeing Hbox come perilously close to losing to a kirby on slippi once.
One of the things in Zain's favor was how much respect his opponents showed him. Roy is AWFUL against pressure but very few times did his opponents actually try to consistently pressure him. Put Zain's Roy against Mango's Falco and it would be a bloodbath - Mango's Falco has insane pressure and Roy wouldn't be able to handle it.
Put Zain's Roy against Mango's Falco and it would be a bloodbath - Mango's Falco has insane pressure and Roy wouldn't be able to handle it. Dude, cmon. That's terrible for comparison on the fact alone roy is trash
Bro you are missing the point, what he is trying to say is that a skilled player can actually make a low tier character work, not win super majors, but work. Meaning that you can be using a top tier character but if you don't have the fundamentals and skill your going to lose to the player that does have them, even if the character he is using is a low tier.
6:26 "Not 'just', never 'just'" Zain's insane movement forced the defensive option by pressuring with a kill fsmash. Fox could only spot dodge orroll since he can't drop shield. I call that a win
ya yuh heard it here first, he plays roy like a marth. zain is insanely good at what he does, but he doesn't play roy to his full potential as a heavy fastfall character that he is
Also I think Armada’s point is extremely valid. MU inexperience allows for ‘gimmick’ kills from missed or unintuitive DI and conflating Roy with ‘bad Marth’. Roy doesn’t suffer from Marthritis and benefits immensely from poor DI. Zain even admits that he would get 4stocked by Mang0 or Armada’s Fox because of this. Doesn’t take away from the fact that Zain is a genius and a fucking legend, a master of neutral and can pull out the reads.
That's for sure. Armada's an expert, and I totally trust him. When he said that with even 20 minutes of matchup research a high level player would significantly improve their game plan and likely win a rematch I believed him. After all, those side-B's at the ledge!! That being said I think it's very telling that even in the top 50 echelon of players, they still don't have the innate experience or knowledge to beat out a skilled low tier. In my opinion, this has huge implications for the level of skill that 99.9% of melee players are at, where people certainly wouldn't be researching matchups to that extent. Too often people talk as if every theoretical player is at the highest level of skill and preparation, to the extent where they'd just demolish another player in a bad MU, which obviously can't be true. Melee just has so much weird tech to remember. Even when melee is as optimized as it is today, outside of the gods (and maybe the peripheral top players) who are true masters, there's still space for low tiers to make their mark. That makes me happy, even if low tiers are still a severe handicap.
Most low tiers definitely benefit from opponents lacking matchup knowledge, there's no doubt at all about that. Better players will learn and adapt very quickly though and most of that advantage should disappear within games to sets. But it's still not the same as having played against the character daily for years. You can get 80% of the way there but you can't learn a matchup as well as you know the fox matchup unless you dedicate some serious time to it. It remains to be seen if Zain or anyone else can continue doing well with Roy or other low tiers (YL, DK, etc come to mind) once people know the matchup better and gimmicks, etc. are out of play. Just because the possibility that Zain won solely due to matchup inexperience and gimmicks is there doesn't mean it is definitely . People will adapt back and forth: Zain needs time to adjust his playstyle once people do adapt to him as well. There is always potential in unexplored part of the game and a lot of the low tiers definitely have more to them than we currently know.
I'm like 2007 old school and I always thought it was implied that it ended with "...on FD" because there's a classic NEO set where he 3 or 4 (or 5?) stocks some fox with a chaingrab on FD.
@@turndownforwalt No shit?! Dude! I watch your vids here all the time, you're a legend haha. I ended up stopping doing those & streaming b/c I went back to school and started making my own smash-like game, but I wanna get back into them at some point.
Sorry for such a late reply! I’m glad you enjoy my videos though, and you should totally come back to it if you find the time! Would love to check your game out also!
Samuel Cho the buff made tipper aerials easier bug if you had no problems before with it‘s like no change at all. MKleo said that he feels no difference lol.
Roy has some interesting things in his kit he can use against spacies. His parry (although still a shorter window than Marths) has something called an ICG (invisible ceiling glitch) which I've managed to abuse against falco's on slippi a lot. Basically, for some reason if you shield before using parry, they will fly up, and into a down arch like they hit an invisible ceiling and its almost always a kill. To be honest, I think if you want to be taught a fast playstyle from a losing position to help your neutral game with other characters, Roy is essential practice for this imo. I can usually find a way around most of the high tiers with Roy. Of course there's 4 stock losses against any one of them as there should be, but really the hardest time I have on Roy is either against Marth or a ranged character like Ylink, Peach, Pikachu or Samus. Fox' & Falco's are usually too thrown off or intimidated by Roy tho and tend to fumble their games big time which is honestly what I think happened here.
The great thing about mid-to-low tiers is that because they need to put in more work, they have longer, more stylish combos than the high tiers who can kill really fast. It's always more entertaining to watch a Samus, Luigi, Mario, Pikachu or Yoshi combo than a Fox or Falco combo, even if the Fox and Falco ones are way more effective.
I like how there's literally a select few people that can just turn lower tier characters into fucking monsters. It's brilliant and entertaining to watch. It's even more satisfying to watch when they win.
While all the various points about matchup unfamiliarity and people showing too much respect and so on hold some water, the main thing is just that Zain is insanely, unimaginably good at the game. Either #1 or #2 in tournaments and clearly #1 on netplay as HBox himself has said, and already clearly the best Marth we've ever seen imo.
This is stuff that I love to see cause on SSBB when it was popular I used to go online and play as Ike who many deemed a pretty bad character compared to the rest of the roster. I always felt like I knew exactly what to do to keep my opponent on their toes to get the stocks from my opponent and never felt that my skills couldnt put me over due to specific matchup advantages or disadvantages
ike is decent, just suffers immensely from being -3 against meta knight and has a pretty good matchup spread elsewhere, since he doesn't get hard countered much at all. (his only -2 is olimar, so he goes at least -1 against all but 2 characters in the entirety of ssbb) He also notably only has a single losing matchup among those lower ranked than him on the tier list, so he's really popular at low tier events.
Unironically, Roy forces Marth players to engage more intensely than normal for each kill, inadvertently becoming a great sandbagging option for purely training your skill. Or I would say that, if the sweet spot wasn't so different that it may harm your muscle memory. Eh.
Zain just KNEW Ginger would try to do something out of shield, and that hilt fsmash SMACKED him on the FRAME he let go of shield, or at least within a couple frames. SICK!!!!
I had a "friend" that would always play lucario and never lost to anyone except one time he decided "iM oNlY gOiNg to ThRoW bOb-OmBs tO wIN wiTH nO dAmAgE" and literally a bob omb didn't drop for over a minute until an arwing shot one out of the air as soon as it spawned so he just sd'd and went home without saying anything. We aren't friends anymore, for several reasons, I wont name names.
i usually try to restrain myself from making self-important posts .... but been a roy main since i was a little kid, always found him cool no matter what any1 said - hell even named my first email & gamertag after him. i used to go to my cousin's house every holiday season to play melee to re-unlock roy on classic mode (i honestly couldnt tell you what they did with their save cards). to see roy prosper in ssbu and even ssbm - even if this is just great piloting & roy's still roy ...... HE'S MY BOY!
No one denies that low-tier character *can win if the player is skilled enough. The only question is how much better Zain would do in tourneys if he put as much efforts in a top-tier character.
I wouldn’t say it’s an inherently better matchup since Roy has a difficult time doing just about everything else versus Puff. The reverse up-B is a great tool but it can be pretty situational and can be punished heavily versus a Puff if it whiffs!
I think these videos are actually a bit more macro-focused, but I’m sorry you feel that way! I want these analysis videos to be accessible to anyone, so if there’s an improvement to be made I’ll work towards that!
the year is 20CC, Roy meta has progressed so much that every match comes down to who holds down the left stick harder to crouch cancel the enemy's pool noodle.
@From Maui oh shit your right
Did you mean 20ASDID ?
The year is 20D1hHep. Melee has ascended. Beyond the gates lie only the refuse of its creation.
PILLOW FIGHT!!
I remember going to my first super major where I got to play friendlies with Axe. We were playing mostly Falco dittos, when someone came up to Axe and asked if it was true that a skilled Roy could beat any Fox. Axe turns to me and says "hey man, can you go fox next game?" I said yes and he went Roy.
I got my shit pushed in.
"I got my shit pushed in" That phrase cracks me up so much.
Sword character over melee ones, everyone knows that, even today in Ultimate, its an unfair match.
Imposter
Were you a good fox player or was he just flexing?
🤣
A skilled Roy can't get his game localized...
T_T
lmao
I hope it gets localized, and I hope that they make the story and characters and gameplay better. Binding Blade is not good and needs a remake.
Time will only tell. Time will always tell.
@@harb1ng3r82 Plot its ok, gameplay its definitely one of the harder in the series. Sure Im not going to say its top tier but if you compare it to like most fe games its usually consistently hard, and more than half of the time the game's ambush spawns are fair.
Best part of this vid is HMW losing his mind every time Don't Test Me breaks KJH's ankles with those crossovers on repeat. Dope video TDFW!
I admittedly spent a lot of time rewatching Brandon's reactions because they were so damn good LOL
Thank you!
@@turndownforwalt no, thank you! Great content as always.
wholesome comment section.
p.s. great videos
lmaoo he gave him a hesi, pulled it back and crossed him again
So lemme get this straight, 20XX is like the dystopian future that we want too avoid by fulfilling the prophecy where ROY, our boi, happens to be the main hero?
But when the world needed a skilled Roy the most, he vanished
So the melee meta is a fucking anime, damn
@@turndownforwalt 100 years passed and my Falcon and I discovered the new Skilled Roy, a Marth Main named Zain. And although his edgeguarding skills are great, he's got a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone (Roy death sound).
But I believe Zain can save Melee.
@Adam Thompson
Previously, on Melee
It's cause the Melee tier list is accurate, but the skill levels and depth of knowledge is so deep in Melee that a Roy could devastate 99% of the community because it's in a master (like Zain)'s hands. I think the tier list is made with comparable skill levels in mind, which generally isn't the case when the level of Melee being played demands stronger tiered characters for more consistent success.
i feel like series of serious low tier only tournaments would be very healthy for the community and the meta.
They played against Roy as if it was Marth, that's the problem.
5:14 The only thing Roy has going for him is movement. I guess he visited the Chapter 21 Secret Shop and bought a shitton of boots.
Goddamnit that made me smile
I thought you were supposed to buy a shitton of Spirit Dust and have one of your Magic Units OD after nuking a map and a half
@@alexanderharrison7421 Magic Dust doesn't exist in Binding Blade.
The statement was actually true once, when a Roy named neo reached top 10 pgr. A lot of people don’t know about neo since he isn’t mentioned in the doc, but he’s actually the best Roy of all time. He has some notable tournament results such as #2 at MLG Chicago 2005, losing to Ken who was unstoppable at the time, 4th at MLG Washington D.C 2005 losing to ken again, 5th at MLG New York and he even qualified for the MLG National Championships where he placed 8th. Peaked at rank #6 with fucking Roy, in a lan environment I don’t think even zain can do that
neo also played marth, so he didn’t solo main of course
And he *was* mentioned in the doc, if I recall correctly. At least one interviewer (maybe Wife?) mentioned him along Ken and Mew2king as a marth player.
He lost to THE Marth. I'd call that a win
Everyone always talks about Chillindude getting 5-0'd by Leffen, but they never talk about how Chillin during the time period he was the best fox player in the world, he got outranked by a Roy at 1 point.
I swear, the devs didn't even try to program Roy into the game properly.
the devs didn't try to program the whole game properly, iwata had to fix it
They couldn't even program Roy properly in his own game.
reminder: Hal had *13 months* to make SSBM. there is is a reason it's a fucking mess
Sakurai did his best with what he was given. Certainly not the only early Gamecube title with growing pains.
You could check AsumSaus's analysis video on Roy. There's a lot of spaghetti programming regarding the character alone possibly owing to the fact that they tried to copy Marth's character with a lot of changed parameters.
It didn't look like a copy and paste job considering there were misplaced and missing flags, badly synchronized hitbox to animation sequences, values having missing or added digits, or said values causing glitches to how the game reads Roy's actions.
"They get bigger when I pivot."
Little did we know back then that Zain would take the online scene by storm less than a year later.
I swear to god I’ve seen you in every comment section for the last 5 years lmao
Sometimes...I pivot so hard...I sprain my thumb!
MMMMMMMMMM
The fact that Roy has to put more work into taking stocks just makes it look cooler, lol
First it was axe's pikachu, then it was amsa's yoshi, then it was leffen's mewtwo, now it's zain's roy. Who's next? Hbox's ness?
Mango's/scorp mario and armada's young link lol
@@gentlekef8653 Axe got Young Link too
2022 the return of Armada, but he will only go Kirby and convince people to only pick Brinstar and he will rise to the top again thanks to his favourite cheese.
hungrybox’s fox
Scorpion Master would like to have a word with you
ALSO as someone who plays Roy frequently; the jab -> side b -> up b edgeguards were unnecessary. He could've forward tilted or wet noodle downsmashed, which is actually how I could tell that it was Zain playing and not a Roy main.
Dude y’all existed back in like 06 and before. I’ve never met a Roy main that wasn’t from that era. I came in 2014 and as far as I can tell Roy mains are myth.
@@MarthMain True lol
though there is a few new Roy players (mainly in the Roy R&D Discord server) like me :D
ive been only playing for 7 months lol
I think a better discussion about Roy's strengths and weaknesses really is necessary to understand what Zain did. There's a reason the mantra is "a skilled Roy" and not "a skilled Kirby". Roy is possibly the weakest character that still has enough tools to pull off scalps like this. That said, bracket luck was absolutely needed. Zain never encountered a Peach or Samus, and those would've probably been the end of his run.
Great points! I think Zain running into the Puff matchup was definitely difficult as well.
I do think a skilled kirby can beat anyone... *once*. That doesn't mean winning a tournament. That doesn't even mean winning a set. But I remember seeing Hbox come perilously close to losing to a kirby on slippi once.
11:07 "And if a character is Captain Falcon and you're Hax$, they're also useless with absolutely no potential." ROFL
One of the things in Zain's favor was how much respect his opponents showed him. Roy is AWFUL against pressure but very few times did his opponents actually try to consistently pressure him. Put Zain's Roy against Mango's Falco and it would be a bloodbath - Mango's Falco has insane pressure and Roy wouldn't be able to handle it.
They were likely scared because his grab conversions were good. He either techchased, chaingrabbed, or Dthrow Fsmashed them a lot.
Worth noting that Zain said, more or less verbatim, exactly what you did. He said "If I had to play Mang0, I would have gotten 4 stocked".
Put Zain's Roy against Mango's Falco and it would be a bloodbath - Mango's Falco has insane pressure and Roy wouldn't be able to handle it.
Dude, cmon. That's terrible for comparison on the fact alone roy is trash
Agreed! I'd definitely be interested in seeing how Zain's Roy deals with pressure scenarios!
Bro you are missing the point, what he is trying to say is that a skilled player can actually make a low tier character work, not win super majors, but work. Meaning that you can be using a top tier character but if you don't have the fundamentals and skill your going to lose to the player that does have them, even if the character he is using is a low tier.
6:26 "Not 'just', never 'just'" Zain's insane movement forced the defensive option by pressuring with a kill fsmash. Fox could only spot dodge orroll since he can't drop shield. I call that a win
ya yuh heard it here first, he plays roy like a marth.
zain is insanely good at what he does, but he doesn't play roy to his full potential as a heavy fastfall character that he is
Also I think Armada’s point is extremely valid. MU inexperience allows for ‘gimmick’ kills from missed or unintuitive DI and conflating Roy with ‘bad Marth’. Roy doesn’t suffer from Marthritis and benefits immensely from poor DI. Zain even admits that he would get 4stocked by Mang0 or Armada’s Fox because of this.
Doesn’t take away from the fact that Zain is a genius and a fucking legend, a master of neutral and can pull out the reads.
That's for sure. Armada's an expert, and I totally trust him. When he said that with even 20 minutes of matchup research a high level player would significantly improve their game plan and likely win a rematch I believed him. After all, those side-B's at the ledge!!
That being said I think it's very telling that even in the top 50 echelon of players, they still don't have the innate experience or knowledge to beat out a skilled low tier. In my opinion, this has huge implications for the level of skill that 99.9% of melee players are at, where people certainly wouldn't be researching matchups to that extent. Too often people talk as if every theoretical player is at the highest level of skill and preparation, to the extent where they'd just demolish another player in a bad MU, which obviously can't be true. Melee just has so much weird tech to remember.
Even when melee is as optimized as it is today, outside of the gods (and maybe the peripheral top players) who are true masters, there's still space for low tiers to make their mark. That makes me happy, even if low tiers are still a severe handicap.
"Roy doesn't suffer from Marthritis"
Hello? Have you seen Roy vs Puff and Peach??
Most low tiers definitely benefit from opponents lacking matchup knowledge, there's no doubt at all about that. Better players will learn and adapt very quickly though and most of that advantage should disappear within games to sets. But it's still not the same as having played against the character daily for years. You can get 80% of the way there but you can't learn a matchup as well as you know the fox matchup unless you dedicate some serious time to it.
It remains to be seen if Zain or anyone else can continue doing well with Roy or other low tiers (YL, DK, etc come to mind) once people know the matchup better and gimmicks, etc. are out of play. Just because the possibility that Zain won solely due to matchup inexperience and gimmicks is there doesn't mean it is definitely . People will adapt back and forth: Zain needs time to adjust his playstyle once people do adapt to him as well. There is always potential in unexplored part of the game and a lot of the low tiers definitely have more to them than we currently know.
@@KoDoRiN have you?
in that last clip where he literally stands there menacingly as falco is pushin buttons... god that was awesome
what i gather from this video from melee roy
"that's just marth but with extra stepts"
Really tall steps
I'm like 2007 old school and I always thought it was implied that it ended with "...on FD" because there's a classic NEO set where he 3 or 4 (or 5?) stocks some fox with a chaingrab on FD.
Oh snap! I watched a ton of your analysis videos back in the day!
@@turndownforwalt No shit?! Dude! I watch your vids here all the time, you're a legend haha. I ended up stopping doing those & streaming b/c I went back to school and started making my own smash-like game, but I wanna get back into them at some point.
Sorry for such a late reply! I’m glad you enjoy my videos though, and you should totally come back to it if you find the time!
Would love to check your game out also!
I saw 2007 and old school next to each other and immediately thought of runescape
I can't believe how in-depth these are. Kudos!
Thank you!
"A really freaking good player like Zain" is an understatement.
The Marth and Roy situation is literally the opposite in Ultimate.
They're no longer echos though
@@pissguzzler9604 As in Marth sucks and doesn't work, while Roy is sitting in high tier
not anymore
@@pendalink even with the buffs, which were really needed, I don't think they changed him that much. His other moves still don't work well.
Samuel Cho the buff made tipper aerials easier bug if you had no problems before with it‘s like no change at all. MKleo said that he feels no difference lol.
Roy has some interesting things in his kit he can use against spacies. His parry (although still a shorter window than Marths) has something called an ICG (invisible ceiling glitch) which I've managed to abuse against falco's on slippi a lot. Basically, for some reason if you shield before using parry, they will fly up, and into a down arch like they hit an invisible ceiling and its almost always a kill. To be honest, I think if you want to be taught a fast playstyle from a losing position to help your neutral game with other characters, Roy is essential practice for this imo. I can usually find a way around most of the high tiers with Roy. Of course there's 4 stock losses against any one of them as there should be, but really the hardest time I have on Roy is either against Marth or a ranged character like Ylink, Peach, Pikachu or Samus. Fox' & Falco's are usually too thrown off or intimidated by Roy tho and tend to fumble their games big time which is honestly what I think happened here.
The great thing about mid-to-low tiers is that because they need to put in more work, they have longer, more stylish combos than the high tiers who can kill really fast.
It's always more entertaining to watch a Samus, Luigi, Mario, Pikachu or Yoshi combo than a Fox or Falco combo, even if the Fox and Falco ones are way more effective.
okay you've officially inspired me, I'm maining PICHU
pichu has a few fun tricks
Wait but...okay
You need but look to the King of the Mews for guidance in your quest.
Plot twist: in SSBU
My dude check out M2K talking about Pichu, he plays him just like Marth
Loved the format of this video! You get better with every upload
I appreciate that! Thank you!
I like how there's literally a select few people that can just turn lower tier characters into fucking monsters. It's brilliant and entertaining to watch. It's even more satisfying to watch when they win.
Zain styled on an entire tournament.
The best part of the vid was seeing Waff flail around in slow motion
The circle of meta will prove itself. When everyone plays fox or falco, they wont know how to play against anything else
While all the various points about matchup unfamiliarity and people showing too much respect and so on hold some water, the main thing is just that Zain is insanely, unimaginably good at the game. Either #1 or #2 in tournaments and clearly #1 on netplay as HBox himself has said, and already clearly the best Marth we've ever seen imo.
Yep! Player skill is definitely one of the bigger factors!
This is stuff that I love to see cause on SSBB when it was popular I used to go online and play as Ike who many deemed a pretty bad character compared to the rest of the roster. I always felt like I knew exactly what to do to keep my opponent on their toes to get the stocks from my opponent and never felt that my skills couldnt put me over due to specific matchup advantages or disadvantages
ike is decent, just suffers immensely from being -3 against meta knight and has a pretty good matchup spread elsewhere, since he doesn't get hard countered much at all. (his only -2 is olimar, so he goes at least -1 against all but 2 characters in the entirety of ssbb) He also notably only has a single losing matchup among those lower ranked than him on the tier list, so he's really popular at low tier events.
Whats insane to me is that the people who are only 20 spots below him on global power ranking feel like they are miles behind him.
Just want to say, I appreciate all the work you put into these videos!
On that day Roy truly was... our boy.
So long as the tiers don't start donning exits, I think we'll be okay.
The year is 20ZZ the best player is Zain, and evrybody plays Roy and only Roy
Very impressive of Lebron James for taking home 4th. Maybe he’s the goat over MJ after all 🤔
Unironically, Roy forces Marth players to engage more intensely than normal for each kill, inadvertently becoming a great sandbagging option for purely training your skill. Or I would say that, if the sweet spot wasn't so different that it may harm your muscle memory. Eh.
Dude you have some of the best melee content out there! and where do you get this music?
The ginger's shit show tournament segment is easily one of the funniest things I've heard of all time.
Zain just KNEW Ginger would try to do something out of shield, and that hilt fsmash SMACKED him on the FRAME he let go of shield, or at least within a couple frames. SICK!!!!
Zain did mention that he saw Ginger acting out of shield quite a bit, so it was a great read!
lol always reminds me of how cool roy looks from a first time players perspective just to see hes so weak with his pool noodle
all my homies hate low tiers
All your homies would get bodied by Zain with any low tier
I had a "friend" that would always play lucario and never lost to anyone except one time he decided "iM oNlY gOiNg to ThRoW bOb-OmBs tO wIN wiTH nO dAmAgE" and literally a bob omb didn't drop for over a minute until an arwing shot one out of the air as soon as it spawned so he just sd'd and went home without saying anything. We aren't friends anymore, for several reasons, I wont name names.
12:50 was a precursor to the now-famous Zain Draws segments of Zain's stream.
a true successor to Neo's Roy
This video was awesome. I love the HMW loop.
That F-smash is going to be in history books...
"Fighting Skill. A higher number improves the unit's hit %"
0:26 EXCUSE ME? WHAT ARE YOU SHOWING US?
Don’t test a skilled Roy...
i usually try to restrain myself from making self-important posts .... but been a roy main since i was a little kid, always found him cool no matter what any1 said - hell even named my first email & gamertag after him. i used to go to my cousin's house every holiday season to play melee to re-unlock roy on classic mode (i honestly couldnt tell you what they did with their save cards). to see roy prosper in ssbu and even ssbm - even if this is just great piloting & roy's still roy ...... HE'S MY BOY!
why do you say "a space animal" when "fox or falco" is less syllables lol
Just like Zain's wavedashes on KJW, it catches everything and nothing at the same time.
I still think about that KJH match to this day.
Great content as always!
Appreciate it! Thanks for the comment!
roy was the first smash ultimate shiek. low damage combos, but to an EXTREME.
A skilled anything can beat anything.
God I love melee. I have never played it and don’t ever plan to buy I enjoy hearing about it so much.
didnt lunchables already prove that roy can win against top tiers in melee?
and that was years ago.
No one denies that low-tier character *can win if the player is skilled enough. The only question is how much better Zain would do in tourneys if he put as much efforts in a top-tier character.
I think if GENESIS 7 was any indication, he already puts an insane amount of effort into his Marth, but I totally get what you’re saying!
Ngl I was gaslit into thinking Brandon was Don't Test Me instead of Zain halfway through the video
He may be able to beat anyone in melee but not in his own game!
This is your best thumbnail by a lot.
Smash is very accurate to the origin games. Here, you can see, Roy is still the worst lord.
>lyn exist
oh ok
@@zuramaru3837 High growths, i guess? She comes with a gem, so that's money...
@@zuramaru3837 at least lyn isn't force deployed for most maps once you make it out of lyn mode compared to having to use Roy for every map!
@@goncalocarneiro3043 Yup, that's the best thing about her. She has a gem.
@@KieraQ0323 Hey, at least she has a monetary value.
The meme originates from an old YT comment.
Lesson learned: don't frick with a skilled Roy
a skilled roy can do 7 damage and not double to a mage!
Very nice editing! Liked and sub
Mason Ream coined the term "ASRCBAF"
This is when roy mains didn't drool on the Controller
These videos are great, keep it up.
oh no... not burger King piccolo....
who started the saying "a skilled roy can beat any fox"
"DatStylishBro"
One thing people seem to forget is Roy technically has the better matchup against Jigglypuff 'cause of reverse up b
I wouldn’t say it’s an inherently better matchup since Roy has a difficult time doing just about everything else versus Puff. The reverse up-B is a great tool but it can be pretty situational and can be punished heavily versus a Puff if it whiffs!
I've heard that reverse up b isnt a guarentee kill because you can sdi into the multi hits instead of just getting hit with the first hit only
A skilled Roy can beat any Aku
ur videos just keep getting better dude
Thank you so much!
You mean rocket thunder? Melee hell is dead🦀
Roy is the swordsman we should be worried about?
Absolutely
Another fantastic video
Glad you liked it! Thank you!
I was expecting a montage with the name but this is cool
A skilled Marth can be any Roy
NANI
@@turndownforwalt heh
Dont test me
If only it were a skilled Pichu who could beat any Fox. But I think we might know what happened there in 2016...
Big grats to zain for proving a perfectly logical concept correct once again. That skill always beats out "tiers"
Dang this was a year ago
I love tier lists and I love Roy, bite me
Why is Roy counter not viable as a ko option?
I’ve unironically played Roy for years
Same.
Welcome to the skilled society
God, Zain is an absolute demon
Are there any other Roy mains from before it was cool?
Current: LSDX, Crono, Lag
Legacy: Sethlon, NEO, Lunchables
Neo.
Okay, I know of the the Lords of Roy. I'm just happy to welcome anyone else.
Me. I'm no pro, but worth mentioning I suppose.
@@noahfessenden6478 - Now that's what I'm talking about.
Pacific ironic
Pacific Ponder
The lower knockback on Roy's moves vs Marth seems to set up well for fsmash reads at high %
It may help some, but I think the bigger issue would still be in finding the hit confirm in the first place!
I think of Roy as that character with only 3 moves.
Cant believe kjh quit after this released
Putting words to each and every button someone presses on a controller is seriously overkill even for Melee's standards lol....
I think these videos are actually a bit more macro-focused, but I’m sorry you feel that way! I want these analysis videos to be accessible to anyone, so if there’s an improvement to be made I’ll work towards that!