Can you explain why a breaker is between the inverter and load center? Also if the breaker trips between transformer and load center you’ll lose the 120v step down? Why not connect directly to the lugs ? And then have your 70a DP breaker off the box ?
These videos are as good as any Ive ever seen. Not just solar or DIY videos, I mean ANY type of videos. They are clear, concise, no music, no annoying three minute intro’s showcasing kids or their dogs. Just important, extremely well produced info in a perfect package. Many thanks!
With that knife switch, a lot of times you can remove the actual internal “guts” of the box allowing you the room to wire them up. Once done you can reattach the internals into the box. Working on my install today. Enjoyed the videos and information.
12:49 Future ref: On most of those boxes the black plastic part is secured with screws (some are riveted). You can remove the plastic/switch from the housing, connect your wires and reattach it. It saves the fingers. Really nice solar install!!
Great info For this reason I got attracted to a company that offered the components wall pre assembled on osb board, pre wired Just plug in panels, batteries and the wires to the house distribution box I love how you instruct
Just FYI/future reference. The smaller box I believe it was a disconnect that you were talking about. If you look at the bottom of it and the top which I believe I could see the Baltimore wrong but they have the ability to be on bolted so you can go through and cut the approximate size length table that you need And I’m bolt the actual fuse holder itself then run your cables through there, hope the wires to it accordingly then feed your excess water back out the top and then both the fuse holder back into its box and you’re good to go. I had to do that with my shop, I ran some cable that was bigger than my thumb and you want to talk about pain in the rear lol we ended up doing that for a couple of the boxes and it worked like a charm. Food for thought all good video and appreciate all the information and the step-by-step instructions on how you did it.
Thank you so much for this! We're in the process of getting our business in order so we can become homesteaders within a few years and really appreciate the effort you put into these videos.
Great stuff, thank you for sharing it. We are intending on using the same equipment on our off-grid property next year. I'm not 100% clear on how the auto-transformer component works, but I'll learn! 🙂
It’s simple, the midpoint transformer maintains a balance between the two legs. The voltage difference between the midpoint and a hot leg is 120v. That is how you get a neutral from it.
Thanks for the great video I am currently installing a similar system with growatt and GYLL. It looks like you were able to maintain your main breaker panel by using the generator interlock kit. I was an electrician in the military so I’m OK with getting into a hot box. I assume by doing this the automatic grid function in the inverter is disabled and you have to manually throw the interlock when the grid is needed. Is there a way for me to support your channel through Patreon?
@@robertstout9240 I may upgrade that interlock kit in the future when I get more comfortable around electricity. For now, I am comfortable with manual switching. I appreciate the kind words. We don't have a Patreon but people sometimes donate the the Paypal link/address in video description...."Support Us With PayPal at countrylivingexperience@gmail.com"
That's what I thought. Most waffle on about it but they have paid a fortune having it fitted. I want to fit my own and save a fortune so like you say not many show the wiring so this is good info
Thanks, I'm doing the same system only with a Growatt Autotransformer. It has 5 lines in to it, not 3. Any chance you've used the Growatt model and would have an idea of how to deal with it's Inverter Input L-N and Inverter Output L-N-L while only having the three connections in the panel? Thanks again
I'm using a Growatt transform to, I think you really only have to took up the three lines out, since L1 and L2 cross over anyway, it doesn't know what's coming in or going out, it's just extra wiring, but don't hold me to that, I haven't fired mine up yet, I'm about two days way!
@@jamesnewman7860 ,thanks, that's sort of what I was thinking. Also, I just talked with tech support at Signituresolar and he emailed me a wiring diagram for two Inverters with transformer and it's showing a sub panel for the Inverters (as a combiner box) and then the Transformer landing in the Main panel, which is different from the youtube videos I've watched. The grounding is well covered. Good luck.
Good thing you bought from Signature Solar... apparently other US vendors are selling the EU version of the Growatt 5000 ES that can be dangerous in the US.
Yep, I am thankful for sure. Sig Solar was very up front with me when I purchased the equipment. They asked me exactly what I wanted to do with it and suggested the 5000es models. I wanted off-grid and that is what I got. I told them I did not want to put ac back into the inverters.
Excellent video! We’ll thought out and very detailed. I’m looking into installing a system in my home and I’ve watched over 60 videos so far and yours is my favorite as it lays out all the installation plan very well. Thank you! I’ be curious to see what you think once everything is running and if you would add more panels or do anything differently. I’ll check out your other videos to see if you have a follow up video. Again, thanks for taking the time to make and edit the video. I know how long that can take.
Thanks for the video. I already have 2 Growatt 5K, 240 vac inverters and an auto-transformer but I'm still designing my system. Your video has helped me as I continue to prepare my install. The challenge, of course, is getting the correct wire sizes/ratings and their associated breakers. I'm looking forward to your follow-on videos. One thing I'm a little worried about is if the auto-transformer trips. I understand that none of the 120 vac loads would be supplied at that point but the 240vac loads might be unbalanced after the trip. I can mitigate that by how I connect the 240vac breakers for my various loads and by running 240 loads at the same time that are on opposite lines, which is not always easy to remember for other members of my household.
You're welcome. From what I understand, if the transformer fails or it's breaker flips, the 120v circuits in your home will just not work but the 240 will.
@@CountryLivingExperience yes hopefully very soon. Let us know what you find out about how to properly ground these units. In my research I have found the ultimately everything needs to eventually get grounded to the main ground rod of the main panel of the house.
Hi! I’m David Riegel, the guy at the Signature Solar customer pickup. I watched one of your videos (for the first time) last night about your panel installation so meeting you today was a nice surprise. It looks like you are using a Growatt setup. I originally ordered a Growatt but they redirected me to an EG4. The EG4 doesn’t require the transformer, which seemed like an easier install to me. I’m curious why you selected the Growatt over the EG4. Great meeting you in person!
Hey David. Nice to meet you today. At the time I bought my Growatts, they EG4 didn't exist. They came out with it about 8 months after my initial purchase. The Growatt wasn't that hard to install with the transformer but the EG4 was easier with less wiring. I am going to use the Growatts for my barn and well which are on a separate grid transformer on the property. The panels I picked up today are for that project. Let me know if you have any questions about the EG4 install. Have a good day!
Making life a bit easier on the knife switch. Bring the wires up from the bottom and connect to the top and the wires coming from the main breaker thru the top of the box and down to the bottom. POOF now you have plenty of wire to work with
Your breakers are to protect a device or peice of equipment. Depending on the amperage of your solar array would determine breaker size. Since it is protecting your array, you dont want it to be significantly above whatever your solar array amperage is. In simple terms you dont want your array to "burn up" before your breaker trips.
@@DJ0Light Yes. But if you are not using a breaker appropriately sized for your equipment it will not trip. For example if I put a 50 amp breaker fed with #6 awg on a 10amp hp motor. The motor will burn up long before your circuit overloads tripping the breaker. That was what I was trying to point out. All three of these breaker, wire size, and equipment rating are going to need to be sized accordingly.
We will be installing a system similar to yours thus summer in Colorado. We are purchasing 2 Growatt 5000 and a pallet of 440 bidacial panels. We'll have 4 strings of 7. The extra 2 panels will be for the well pump. Great video.
Thanks so much for taking the time to produce this very informative video. My intention is to install the same components so it's very helpful again thank you.
Hi. Just finished drying walling my shed. I have three Growatt ES5000 with two transformers. Tomorrow I hope to install the backer board (2) to a wall that is ~85” wide. Can you tell what type of screws (or whatever hardware) you used to mount your ES5000’s to the backer board, as well as the transformers. I have Growatt transformers as well. Thank you kindly. Blessings
Good job my friend. I have some question about relabel of those inverters. They pass over two years of installation. Is working every day? How hard do you use it? Do you have any problem? Thanks 👍
There are so many combinations and types of inverters on the market. Some do the same thing and others function differently. I choose this option because they were less expensive and physically lighter than an all in one unit. Additionally, they can be paralleled with more units (up to 6) which will give you much more inverting power than a single stand alone unit.
What is that panel you mounted them on. That looks stronger than sheet rock. Oh I see Hardie fiber cement. That looks like a good choice and more fire resistant I would think
I don't understand why you said "Line1 Line2" for the inverter output. I believe it's the 5000ES model and it is single phase 230V. And they are actually Line and Neutral. (Not NA standard) The black wire is actually a Neutral.
Great video. I have components but have not installed them yet. Sorry if asked but the panel where your inverters and transformers reside , the neutral and grounds are not bonded right? because you are connecting to your main house panel where its bpnded? If I am creating an isolated sysyem for my garage, would you have bonded the neutral and ground at the panels with the components? Thanks
Thank you. Correct but I am not an electrician. I took advice from the solar company (Signature Solar) and had a friend who is an electrician come and inspect what I did. There is still a little debate about the grounding and there is no agreement across the board.
can i only connect the inverter to my household grid connection AC- in and Out and not via PV solar connection? Cause my PV cable is on my existing SMA/BYD storage system. Can i charge and discharge the growatt via my fusebox 230v*16A = 3.680w ? (european connection) And does the inverter knows when i have pv excess and charge when i have this excess?
So for the brakers that you plug your inverters into I belive you only needed maybe 25amp ones, your inverter outputs 5k watts at 240, so 240volts(x)25amps =6000watts
ask yourself: if the SPF5000es is connected via AC output and via AC input and the following conditions apply: all consumers are off, the battery is already 100% charged, i.e. fully charged, and there is full sun on the PV modules at 12:00 p.m.: what happens to the EXCESS electricity from the PV system then ? (does it flow back into the public grid via AC output or AC input?) thank you
Hi there ! Just quick question. Do you think 4mm2 flex cable will be thick enough for the same inverte what you have only 3.5kv model i need it to run from a fuse box to inverter and s about 15meters the only reason for that is can’t any closer .just wonder 4mm2 or 6 but many web it says 4mm can handle easy 3.5 kw 32 amp and is only single phase .many thanks
There is a big difference between 4mm and 4mm2 (squared). You would need to use 4mm which is equivalent to 6awg (American Wire Gauge). 4mm2 is way too small and would be equivalent to 11awg.
Common protocol would treat black wire as Line 1 (2 wire, blk & wht, 120v) where as the added wire in a 3 wire system (blk, wht & red, 240v), the red ,added wire, would be treated as Line 2.
Little puzzled the AC out on the Grow Watt, L1 is Hot or Common, L2 is the Neutral. You connected L2 to the breaker which will create a Dead Short! Neutrals should be landed in your sub panel on the Neutral bar.
That is not what I did. These inverters are 240v only. They both have 2 lines. A L1(red) and L2(black) (it is incorrectly labeled with an N)(refer to Signature Solar's video). There is no dead short. Transformer creates a neutral leg. Those neutrals are all tied to the neutral bus separate from the grounds in the sub-panel. The neutral ground bond is made downstream at the main panel.
Why did you set up the power station area in the house instead of doing a separate building designated for this? I’m curious because I’m considering increasing the size of my pump house to accommodate everything for the solar power setup/station. Thanks in advance!
It is much easier to monitor and manipulate in the house. Additionally it is easier to keep them in the proper temperature and humidity range in the house.
Did you ever find out about the grounding question for the inverters? I have this same set up and I'm to the point of wiring everything up. I was wondering the same thing about the ground.
Of course you have to ground the inverters. If there's a fault internally, and you get either the high-voltage DC or the inverter output present on the cabinet, it's a (fatal) safety issue. You need a ground to divert those fault currents and hopefully trip an upstream breaker somewhere. What you've not mentioned anywhere is where in your system you will by tying neutral to ground. Presumably that's still happening back in your main panel (and still happens when the 70A breaker there is open). You'll need to keep that in mind if you later install some sort of automatic transfer switch. There should be only one place in your system that ground and neutral are tied together, and you should be planning the system design to include that aspect.
@@CountryLivingExperience yeah I just got my Growatt MIN 7600TL-XH-US in the other day. I’ve been purchasing bits and pieces here and there getting ready for the install, and when I saw that transformer, I wanted to make sure I didn’t miss something. Mines a 240Vac Split Phase As I’m reading right now, I see it states(Grid support utility interactive transformer-less hybrid inverter). Can’t wait to see how she does!!
Good information , thank you . I have just fitted 2x of these to my 10 kw off grid system and all was running well for 3 days .I then added the wifi dongles and now the system shuts down in 2 minutes ! Have you fitted yours yet ? If so did you have this problem ? As far as I can deem it may need a firmware update ?
so having 2 5k inverters you have 10 how often to you get close to using the full 10k? currently i have a gas gen its a 17.5 kw i can almost run my whole house on it, minus the dryer when the ac is on or vise versa. when i calc it out tho using my average KWH from the power company that math comes out to around 3800 kwh a day. I really like your set up and i am so close to pulling the trigger.
Cool, thanks. I could use the 10kw easily if I was not smart about how I used my appliances. I just have to think about what I am using. I did a video on testing/running the loads in my house including stove, oven, water heater, dryer, all lights and phantom loads, etc.....ruclips.net/video/FHCJIW2zcwE/видео.html.
Hi, I'm trying to get educated because we're going off grid soon. I apologize for my question, I'm a woman and technical things don't click on me as eassy yet I'm trying 😤. Why 2 inverters? Thanks for your efforts!
No problem. I am happy to help. Each inverter can only provide 5kw of power. If you turn on the stove and it uses 4kw of power and then want to run the dryer which also needs 4kw to run, you will be at a deficit. You would need 8kw at one time. So for my house 2 inverters that are 5kw (10kw total) provide what I need at any one time.
I’m installing the same system but very concerned that there’s no way to know if the transformer fails (which will cause a floating neutral). All signature solar says is to make sure it’s grounded correctly so excess voltage in that event will have somewhere to go (instead of burning up your appliances or house) but there’s got to be a better solution. Do you have any ideas about that?
I am following their recommendations on how to install the system. They are the experts so I have to trust what they say. As far as I understand if the inverters feed 240 back to your main panel, your 120 circuits cannot utilize it and they just won't work.
@@CountryLivingExperience There is a lot of chatter about this problem (check out this guys attempt at a solution ruclips.net/video/p7Gub4PB1Dk/видео.html). With a failed transformer/floating neutral the voltage will go crazy if not balanced and could burn up appliances and homes. Only excessive current, not voltage, will trip normal AC circuit breakers. I’ve talked to Signature Solar quite a bit about this and they don’t have a great solution. Their in-house electrical engineer, Mike, said to run the “AC out” through a breaker barely big enough to pass the current (he said 23 amps…I don’t think those exist) so any fluctuations would trip it. It honestly sounded like he wasn’t very confident though. He also said to ground it properly so excessive voltage has a place to go. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out a good solution. Solaredge, who makes the transformer, designed it with a temp sensor that will shut off their inverter if it overheats. I wish they’d provide a real solution since they sell the transformer specifically for that Growatt. Ultimately, they’d blame you for not using a licensed electrician, but no run of the mill electrician would know about this problem. David Poz has digital voltmeters to monitor fluctuations. That’s better than nothing.
I too am using the same exact main components. S.S. told me that if the transformer failed, the 120vac loads just wouldn’t work. I’m probably being overly cautious, but to ease my mind I ordered a second transformer. Just need to know how to install it. I’m about a week out from being ready to assemble my entire system. I pray it looks as organized as your. Great video!
Quick question: on the Generator Interlock Kit. Do you have a generator installed on this system or you using this just based on the solar system. I just ordered the majority of my solar products.
This is my last question I don't mean to bother u I just don't wanna mess up my inverter when it gets here can I do that same configuration using that SolarEdge transformer on a single phase 230v inverter that only has L & N on the output??
No worries. I do not know anything about the inverter brand you have. I cannot properly advise you on what to do. There has to be a ground somewhere. I suggest joining the DIY Solar Forum and asking question of the guys there.
Good night I have two sungold hybird inverters installed in a parallel as.master and slave. When ever I manually switch from SBU tO SUB the slave inverter Switches to error and shut down. It has to be reset manually. Do you have an idea what is causing this problem and what can be done? Thanks for your help.
you diddnt comment on the ground bar if it was put in by you or did it come like that , i got random breakers 40amp and a random panel box 60amp , do you think most breakers are compatible with panel boxes ?
How do you like your growatt 5kw inverter? I am thinking about getting that one, or waiting on the signature solar branded one that will be 3kw. Also, how have you found signature solar to work with regards to communication and customer service?
I like them a lot. Make sure you only buy it from Sig Solar. They are the only Growatt seller in the US that has had the inverter modified to work properly with the American grid. There is a huge thread on this over at the DIY Solar Power Forum.
I understand that this growatt is customized to suit US requirements, i am not living in US, power here is 220v and 50hz. If i buy this model from my local original dealer in my country, will it be of the same mentioned quality and features? My worry if the non US version could be bad or completely different? I did not see reviews for non US version of Growatt or at least a comparison between original and US version model
I do not know what is available in your country. Growatt is sold around the world and they have a good reputation but there are some clones that have been made.
I would be interested why you used the Growatt which requires an auto transformer to operate. I have been looking at the EG4 units which create the 240/120 in the unit.
The EG4 did not exist at the time I purchased my Growatts. I'll let the secret out of the bag......I have two new EG4's on the way right now. Stay tuned for installation videos for them.
Awesome stuff as always! Would you go for this setup over growatts 12kw all in one? The 12kw already has a built in transformer as well so it seems much simpler. What do you think? Specifically the SPF 12000T DVM MPV.
HOWdy C-L-E, ... Whenever landing STRANDED Wire ( especially 8 awg & larger ) FERRULES keep everything together & tight I landed my CIRCUIT BREAKERS before my FERRULES & CRIMPER arrived When I removed the Stranded 8 gauge wire from the circuit breakers I was disappointed with how much they had "loosened" and MASHED out away from the CONTACTS Same inside my GroWATT INVERTER ... the SOLID COPPER Wires were fine ... but ... the Stranded wires had "lost" their TORQUE Just an FYI Thought # 2 ... if it is the least bit HUMID or DAMP ... consider some "NOX-OX" or "OX-GARD" on all your connectors & the knife edges on your Circuit-Breakers where they slide on your BUS-BARS inside your Circuit Breaker box & where steel screws into aluminum etc Etc ETC ... Thanks for sharing your SYSTEM & PLANNING COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...
Just wondering why do you need a sub panel when you could have bring line 1 and line 2 and your neutral directly to your main panel using your double pole breaker, thus feeding each 12V leg. Am I wrong here?
You cannot do that because these are 240v inverters. You need the sub panel to utilize the mid-point transformer to split that and create the neutral leg (2 legs of 120v). If you just rant that inverter back to your main, you would fry your 120v loads.
You mentioned the manual states 40A breakers are needed for the inverters. Do you happen to have V4.0? My manual is V3.0 and states on p.9 that a 50A is required for the SPF 5000 ES. I am wondering if they updated the manual/requirement as I believe David Poz was surprised that a 50A was originally called for, and am about to purchase my breakers. Thanks, your video was a lot of help.
I also have V3.0. They are changing and updating them so quickly. I went with 8ga wire which a 40a breaker is appropriate for. I am not sure why they state 50a in the manual. When I originally talked to Sig Solar they told me 30a breakers and 10ga wire but they may have been mistaken and though I purchased the spf 3500. Regardless, if the breaker is too small it will just trip a bit earlier. I will probably just stick with the 40's and see what happens. Glad we could help out.
Just an FYI, The SPF 5000 ES User manual on page 9 and page 25 Calls for the 8 awg wire and a 50A BREAKER. I'm building the same system and if I'm wrong about that please let me know. Also, I'm using 2 split phase Growatt transformers. I see how one is wired in, would the second one be wired in the same just connecting to its own 20A, 25A or 30A breaker??(I'm not sure what size is needed) Would they automatically share splitting the voltage. The reason I got 2 transformers is I'm more worried about the breaker tripping due to breaker failure than transformer overload and 2 seems to improve both problems. Over the years (I'm 69 Years old) I have seen breakers trip from breaker failure a few times. Any comments would be appreciated.
I know. I was following advice from other sources more familiar with electricity than I. I am not an electrician. It is best to follow the manual or contact the solar equipment dealer that you bought it from. Each inverter should be on it's own breaker. When paralleled and communicating with each other, the inverters will share the work.
Newbie question...What is the purpose of the transformer? I've never seen it used on the other bigillion videos I've watched. Is it because most of the videos I've watched are using batteries? Thanks.
Since these are 240v inverters, you need a midpoint transformer to split the 240v into two 120v legs for your home. Batteries have nothing to do with it. There are many inverters on the market that are 240v like these Growatts and some Victron models.
Hello I've washed a couple installers of this solar edge transformer my question is if the inverter only have a line & neutral output with no ground can the SolarEdge transformer be used still or no?? I don't want to buy this inverter if I can't use it the input has three line neutral ground the output only has two
@@CountryLivingExperience yes I just thought about that lol I'm just nervous with all this that's all I didn't want to waste $500 on this inverter coming when I seen that it didn't have a ground on the AC output
So line is considered Line 1 and neutral is Line 2 on all these inverters basically im making me a note pad mines have no ground output im still a lil stuck on that part
@@CountryLivingExperience my ac output terminal don't have a ground next to it just Line & Neutral on the output the input has all 3 yes ground line & neutral this is not a growat inverter from sig solar but it's same type hybrid inverter a 5000 watt 48 volt PowMr solar inverter
Hi .I have a question on your balancing transformer . Why do you need one? I have the 12 k low frequency inverter. I have not installed it yet. Working on solar shed and will be moving all solar electric and batteries when done. I am totally off grid. Will I need to get the transformer? Signiture solar never mentioned it to me.
The Growatt 5K inverter's AC output is 240vac so there are only two output lines (both at 240vac). To supply 120vac loads you need this transformer to create a neutral line between the two 240vac lines so that neutral to either 240vac line would be 120vac.
You should put the balancing transformer in the main lugs on that panel. You don’t want there to be any chance of that panel being energized without the balancing transformer as that will destroy at least some of the 120V equipment powered from it. The two breakers on the inverter outputs will protect the balancing transformer from short circuits and it should’ve been sized large enough to protect it from overload in the worst case unbalance that could be predicted.
Okay. Looked like you put it on a 30A (you didn’t say and the video was a bit blurry). So the first time you get the blowdryer and curling iron in the bathroom and the toaster in the kitchen (just an example who knows what high draw 120V appliances happen to be on the same leg somewhere in the house) and trip that breaker you’ll lose your neutral. Then the lines will have voltages to neutral inversely proportional to their loading. So the heavily loaded leg goes low and the lightly loaded leg goes high. It is one of the cruel ironies that heavy loads which won’t be hurt by this tend to be cheap things (blow dryer, toaster, air compressor, etc). The lightly loaded leg which will go high always seems to end up with the computers and TVs on it and they don’t like 200+ volts so much (though newer ones with universal power supplies do better). A little example for illustration. The house is pulling 1000W. Nicely balanced. Someone turns on a blowdryer (1800W) and the curling iron (500W) and someone else turns in the microwave (1800W) and those two circuits happen to be on the same leg. So now the legs are L1 = 500W just like before. L2 = 4600W. Should be fine right? Wrong. That 30A breaker trips after about a minute of this and then all kinds of ugliness starts. We can predict what will happen to the voltages. L2 will go to 23.5V and L1 will go to 216.5V Moral of the story. You really do not want that balancing transformer not to be there anytime that panel is powering the house. At the very least you should move it to the other side of the panel and install handle ties through all 6 breakers (the four from the inverters and the two from the balancing transformer) it won’t keep it from tripping by itself but at least it will keep you from accidentally turning it off while the inverters are on.
I’ve been trying to understand what happens if the auto transformer’s breaker flips. Do the two poles simply become unbalanced? Or is there more to it? What happens to the 120v circuits?
@@CountryLivingExperience I took your word for a while, but I found out NEC section 450.5 seems to say the auto transformer isn’t allowed to have its own over current protection. It has to connect directly to the conductors.
There is a great video of David Proz rewiring the auto transformer to the Growats with a 3 pole circuit breaker. If the transformer should go bad the breaker flips and cuts the power from the Growats to the subpanel.
@@martinhrabe9888 yes! Saw it when it was new. That seems to be the only way to meet code, since a neutral breaker independent of the hots doesn’t seem to be allowed.
Im lost on a couple of things. You called line 2 black wire a neutral then hooked it to a breaker not to the neutral bus bar . did I missed something? The other thing I don't get is it appears ( pls don't take this the wrong way) you wired the inverters into the breaker panel on 3 separate breakers which I thought was each inverter in on one breaker. And out the other side bcuz its appears to be labeled that way but I see your main lugs at the top wired like its going to the transformer. What I thought was it was supposed to go like this.. If its a 220 inverter without a built in transformer that it has no neutral/common .line 1 and 2 go to a disconnect/breaker from each inverter and are combined to go to the transformer . When it leaves the transformer that's when the neutral and both powers and ground will go into a panel to one breaker and then neutral and ground busses. Sorry I know that was a lot
Sorry, sometimes I am not to good with my explanations. I believe I connected everything as I should. Please watch Signature Solar's video on how to do it here and then get back to me...ruclips.net/video/NVnJhFxCFHw/видео.html.
The real issue is only if you connect the neutral and ground together on a sub panel, you only do this to the main panel. TBH Im not a certifiate electrician but electronic engineering so Im sure there is others better to answer it, but I didnt saw this point in comments. One question, why you didnt take a 120/240 inverter instead? no concern for floating ground or issue in case of a fail. Some models seems to get inputs from your main AC, generator,solar, etc.. and gives a 120/240 AC output. Cool project BTW! Where I live electricity is still too cheap to be profitable for my needs right now to go solar, would take 35yrs to break even with current prices.
Hello from Northern Ireland! - I am thinking of installing 3 of these Growatt 5k inverters also in parallel to 40 panels. I can't find documentation to say if the 3 strings (one per inverter) must be the same ie: the same watts/volts/amps to each inverter -my 3 strings are slightly different. Inverter 1 =12 panels 4320w/160v/30A Inverter 2 =12 panels 4320w/160v/30A Inverter 3 =16 panels 5760w/160v/40A. Each string is within the manufacturers tolerances. Do you know if it would be ok to connect this setup in parallel or if i should keep the 3 inverters separate?
Hello. The three strings don't need to be the same however, you still need the proper amount of voltage to operate each inverter. Mine are unequal, my inverters are paralleled, and everything works perfectly.
@@CountryLivingExperience Is that "Nominal DC input voltage 48V" meaning my panels need to supply a minimum of 48v for the inverter to work properly? (does this still apply even though i will be connecting 240v mains/grid also) Thanks for your help.
@@richardleighton822 No. Growatt 5k inverters usually have a minimum input voltage of 120V (Max of 430V) to operate the MPPT. Your European models could be a little different. It should say in the manual.
Awesome videos 2 questions. Your using 25amp breakers for the transformer with number 8 wire isn’t that awful thick wire for such a low breaker size And why does growatt suggest a 50 amp breaker in the Manuel for the 5KW but only using #10 wire. These numbers just don’t make sense to me at all Keep the great content coming please
Since the run is so short on those transformer conductors, it should be fine. Bump it up to a 30A if you need to. Not sure why the Growatt manual suggested that 50A. I used 40A and 8awg.
@@cowboymcq6711 You're welcome. I actually installed the EG4's after these Growatts. I am going to use the Growatts again for my barn and well. I am in the process of making those videos.
If you are talking about the battery cable, it does not need to be in conduit. As for the smaller wires, I will be putting them in conduit once I have everything working perfectly the way I want it.
@Country Living Experience: A Homesteading Journey did you have to update your firmware since you got the inverters not that long ago? I got mine in September and they apparently need the newest update. Do you have that or know anyone who does? I couldn't find it on sig solar's site.
I like your videos highlighting the Growatt inverter plus the auto-transformer. However, it seems that SDGE seems to have only simple grid-tied inverters on their approved list. I have been asking around to see if these new inverters have a chance of being approved. Otherwise it seems I have to choose a grid-tie, a transformer and charge controller and battery to add battery backup.
You absolutely need to ground the inverter. The reason you might have struggled on the disconnect is it's only rated for 30a max (#10 wire ), you seem to be using #6. #6 is also wrong if you have it protected at 70a, needs to be #4 if landed on a 70a breaker. You need to upsize your disco and downsize your ocpd. Double check into ground and neutral bonding and if in your system the ground and neutral should be bonded or isolated!
Great. Thanks. Hopefully I can find a different knife switch. This is the only one I could find in a 50 mile radius. As for the breaker, the solar company, my electrician, and two other friends who know electricity said the 70amp is fine with 6ga so I’m sticking with that.
The Growatt SPF 5kw ES in listed as an off grid inverter. It seems to be able to operate as a hybrid inverter. Is there any difference between this inverter and what is listed as a hybrid?
The hybrid inverters listed on the Sig Solar website are made by Huawei. They are grid tie and come with an additional auto-transformer if you want to switch it to off-grid or hybrid.
The 5K IS an hybrid inverter. The ability to either be grid-tied and still work without having to be connected to an active grid in case of grid outages (in addition to PV and Batt) is what signifies this.
@@CountryLivingExperience Here's what Signature Solar Told Me : "As for the 5000ES if you need split phase power you will need to get a midpoint transformer. If you plan on running 5000es' in parallel with one another a thing to keep in mind is the Midpoint transformers have a maximum output of 5000w. So if you need the entire 10000w that 2 5kES would produce you will need 2 midpoints wired paralleled together. "
ALL OF OUR SOLAR EQUIPMENT...CLICK HERE: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=countrylivingexperience
@@gregs3220 That is correct.
Why are using two enverters?
Can you explain why a breaker is between the inverter and load center?
Also if the breaker trips between transformer and load center you’ll lose the 120v step down?
Why not connect directly to the lugs ? And then have your 70a DP breaker off the box ?
These videos are as good as any Ive ever seen. Not just solar or DIY videos, I mean ANY type of videos. They are clear, concise, no music, no annoying three minute intro’s showcasing kids or their dogs. Just important, extremely well produced info in a perfect package. Many thanks!
I appreciate that. Thank you
I very much enjoy watching this program, as it is basically my trade.
With that knife switch, a lot of times you can remove the actual internal “guts” of the box allowing you the room to wire them up. Once done you can reattach the internals into the box.
Working on my install today. Enjoyed the videos and information.
Cool. Thanks for the tip
12:49 Future ref: On most of those boxes the black plastic part is secured with screws (some are riveted). You can remove the plastic/switch from the housing, connect your wires and reattach it. It saves the fingers.
Really nice solar install!!
I appreciate that but I looked all over that box (Siemens fused safety switch) and could not find one way to take off those inner parts.
Great info
For this reason I got attracted to a company that offered the components wall pre assembled on osb board, pre wired
Just plug in panels, batteries and the wires to the house distribution box
I love how you instruct
Glad we were helpful
Just FYI/future reference. The smaller box I believe it was a disconnect that you were talking about. If you look at the bottom of it and the top which I believe I could see the Baltimore wrong but they have the ability to be on bolted so you can go through and cut the approximate size length table that you need And I’m bolt the actual fuse holder itself then run your cables through there, hope the wires to it accordingly then feed your excess water back out the top and then both the fuse holder back into its box and you’re good to go. I had to do that with my shop, I ran some cable that was bigger than my thumb and you want to talk about pain in the rear lol we ended up doing that for a couple of the boxes and it worked like a charm. Food for thought all good video and appreciate all the information and the step-by-step instructions on how you did it.
using this video to help train me AT signature solar! So cool! Ready to own a home and do this myself.
That is awesome!
Love this! yes, use the ground.
Thank you
Thank you so much for this! We're in the process of getting our business in order so we can become homesteaders within a few years and really appreciate the effort you put into these videos.
Very cool. Glad our channel is helpful for you.
Great stuff, thank you for sharing it. We are intending on using the same equipment on our off-grid property next year. I'm not 100% clear on how the auto-transformer component works, but I'll learn! 🙂
Very cool. Signature Solar has a great video on how that auto-transformer works.
It’s simple, the midpoint transformer maintains a balance between the two legs. The voltage difference between the midpoint and a hot leg is 120v. That is how you get a neutral from it.
Thanks for the great video I am currently installing a similar system with growatt and GYLL. It looks like you were able to maintain your main breaker panel by using the generator interlock kit. I was an electrician in the military so I’m OK with getting into a hot box. I assume by doing this the automatic grid function in the inverter is disabled and you have to manually throw the interlock when the grid is needed.
Is there a way for me to support your channel through Patreon?
@@robertstout9240 I may upgrade that interlock kit in the future when I get more comfortable around electricity. For now, I am comfortable with manual switching. I appreciate the kind words. We don't have a Patreon but people sometimes donate the the Paypal link/address in video description...."Support Us With PayPal at countrylivingexperience@gmail.com"
Nice I have a 3KW system I am installing (different brand by easun) I like how you keep everything neat and organized
Thanks man
Thank you, not many people doing these videos show all that, I’m in the process of doing the same exact thing. Keep it up you got a good thing going.
You're welcome. Glad we could be helpful.
That's what I thought. Most waffle on about it but they have paid a fortune having it fitted. I want to fit my own and save a fortune so like you say not many show the wiring so this is good info
Thanks, I'm doing the same system only with a Growatt Autotransformer. It has 5 lines in to it, not 3. Any chance you've used the Growatt model and would have an idea of how to deal with it's Inverter Input L-N and Inverter Output L-N-L while only having the three connections in the panel? Thanks again
I'm using a Growatt transform to, I think you really only have to took up the three lines out, since L1 and L2 cross over anyway, it doesn't know what's coming in or going out, it's just extra wiring, but don't hold me to that, I haven't fired mine up yet, I'm about two days way!
@@jamesnewman7860 ,thanks, that's sort of what I was thinking. Also, I just talked with tech support at Signituresolar and he emailed me a wiring diagram for two Inverters with transformer and it's showing a sub panel for the Inverters (as a combiner box) and then the Transformer landing in the Main panel, which is different from the youtube videos I've watched. The grounding is well covered. Good luck.
Good thing you bought from Signature Solar... apparently other US vendors are selling the EU version of the Growatt 5000 ES that can be dangerous in the US.
Yep, I am thankful for sure. Sig Solar was very up front with me when I purchased the equipment. They asked me exactly what I wanted to do with it and suggested the 5000es models. I wanted off-grid and that is what I got. I told them I did not want to put ac back into the inverters.
Excellent video! We’ll thought out and very detailed. I’m looking into installing a system in my home and I’ve watched over 60 videos so far and yours is my favorite as it lays out all the installation plan very well. Thank you!
I’ be curious to see what you think once everything is running and if you would add more panels or do anything differently.
I’ll check out your other videos to see if you have a follow up video.
Again, thanks for taking the time to make and edit the video. I know how long that can take.
Thanks so much. I appreciate it!
I have a bunch of videos on the system in my archives that should be helpful for you.
Thanks for the video. I already have 2 Growatt 5K, 240 vac inverters and an auto-transformer but I'm still designing my system. Your video has helped me as I continue to prepare my install. The challenge, of course, is getting the correct wire sizes/ratings and their associated breakers. I'm looking forward to your follow-on videos. One thing I'm a little worried about is if the auto-transformer trips. I understand that none of the 120 vac loads would be supplied at that point but the 240vac loads might be unbalanced after the trip. I can mitigate that by how I connect the 240vac breakers for my various loads and by running 240 loads at the same time that are on opposite lines, which is not always easy to remember for other members of my household.
You're welcome. From what I understand, if the transformer fails or it's breaker flips, the 120v circuits in your home will just not work but the 240 will.
Very happy for you to see your system going up! Still need to do ours soon!
Thank you. Hope you get yours up soon.
@@CountryLivingExperience yes hopefully very soon. Let us know what you find out about how to properly ground these units. In my research I have found the ultimately everything needs to eventually get grounded to the main ground rod of the main panel of the house.
@@SmallVansBigWorld That is what I understand too but I will try to confirm.
Excellent video! I have all of these components and your explanations and guide were very helpful.
Glad it was helpful.
Green ground is a great safety connection
It is. We did that in our newest video on connections.
Excellent video, thank you for taking the time. 👍
You’re welcome
Hi! I’m David Riegel, the guy at the Signature Solar customer pickup. I watched one of your videos (for the first time) last night about your panel installation so meeting you today was a nice surprise. It looks like you are using a Growatt setup. I originally ordered a Growatt but they redirected me to an EG4. The EG4 doesn’t require the transformer, which seemed like an easier install to me. I’m curious why you selected the Growatt over the EG4. Great meeting you in person!
To clarify, I was the customer you met at the signature Solar pickup dock.
🎃
Hey David. Nice to meet you today.
At the time I bought my Growatts, they EG4 didn't exist. They came out with it about 8 months after my initial purchase. The Growatt wasn't that hard to install with the transformer but the EG4 was easier with less wiring. I am going to use the Growatts for my barn and well which are on a separate grid transformer on the property. The panels I picked up today are for that project.
Let me know if you have any questions about the EG4 install.
Have a good day!
Making life a bit easier on the knife switch. Bring the wires up from the bottom and connect to the top and the wires coming from the main breaker thru the top of the box and down to the bottom. POOF now you have plenty of wire to work with
Good tip. Thanks
Your breakers are to protect a device or peice of equipment. Depending on the amperage of your solar array would determine breaker size. Since it is protecting your array, you dont want it to be significantly above whatever your solar array amperage is. In simple terms you dont want your array to "burn up" before your breaker trips.
I understand that.
Breakers are used to protect wires.
@@DJ0Light Yes. But if you are not using a breaker appropriately sized for your equipment it will not trip. For example if I put a 50 amp breaker fed with #6 awg on a 10amp hp motor. The motor will burn up long before your circuit overloads tripping the breaker. That was what I was trying to point out. All three of these breaker, wire size, and equipment rating are going to need to be sized accordingly.
So far, I have installed one 5kva home solar power (must brand),but l still very curious to learn more..
We will be installing a system similar to yours thus summer in Colorado. We are purchasing 2 Growatt 5000 and a pallet of 440 bidacial panels. We'll have 4 strings of 7. The extra 2 panels will be for the well pump. Great video.
Awesome! It’s a great feeling to get it installed and running.
@@CountryLivingExperience Are you using 30a breakers or 50a breakers for the Growatss?
@@martinhrabe9888 40a
Thanks so much for taking the time to produce this very informative video. My intention is to install the same components so it's very helpful again thank you.
You're welcome. Glad we could help.
You mention the AC cables to be the same. Must they be the same length between the 2 inverters going to the distro box
Another excellent video with points not mentioned in other videos.. Good stuff
Thank you
Now this video the closed caption is correct
Hi. Just finished drying walling my shed. I have three Growatt ES5000 with two transformers. Tomorrow I hope to install the backer board (2) to a wall that is ~85” wide. Can you tell what type of screws (or whatever hardware) you used to mount your ES5000’s to the backer board, as well as the transformers. I have Growatt transformers as well. Thank you kindly.
Blessings
Awesome! I just used regular wall anchors. The bigger ones will tell you the weight they are rated to hold on the package. Got them at Lowes.
Good job my friend.
I have some question about relabel of those inverters.
They pass over two years of installation.
Is working every day?
How hard do you use it?
Do you have any problem?
Thanks 👍
No problems with them. Just one firmware update.
Check beneath the inverter you'd see a grounding indicator near a screw for grounding
Thanks for this video. My question why two smaller inverters instead of one larger one? Thanks
There are so many combinations and types of inverters on the market. Some do the same thing and others function differently. I choose this option because they were less expensive and physically lighter than an all in one unit. Additionally, they can be paralleled with more units (up to 6) which will give you much more inverting power than a single stand alone unit.
What is that panel you mounted them on. That looks stronger than sheet rock. Oh I see Hardie fiber cement. That looks like a good choice and more fire resistant I would think
Correct. It is recommended to mount on Hardie board.
I don't understand why you said "Line1 Line2" for the inverter output. I believe it's the 5000ES model and it is single phase 230V. And they are actually Line and Neutral. (Not NA standard)
The black wire is actually a Neutral.
If I understood correctly with that breaker at the very end, this system is working offgrid, and in case you need it you can switch to the main grid ?
Yes, that is correct.
Great video. I have components but have not installed them yet.
Sorry if asked but the panel where your inverters and transformers reside , the neutral and grounds are not bonded right? because you are connecting to your main house panel where its bpnded?
If I am creating an isolated sysyem for my garage, would you have bonded the neutral and ground at the panels with the components?
Thanks
Thank you.
Correct but I am not an electrician. I took advice from the solar company (Signature Solar) and had a friend who is an electrician come and inspect what I did. There is still a little debate about the grounding and there is no agreement across the board.
can i only connect the inverter to my household grid connection AC- in and Out and not via PV solar connection? Cause my PV cable is on my existing SMA/BYD storage system. Can i charge and discharge the growatt via my fusebox 230v*16A = 3.680w ? (european connection) And does the inverter knows when i have pv excess and charge when i have this excess?
So for the brakers that you plug your inverters into I belive you only needed maybe 25amp ones, your inverter outputs 5k watts at 240, so 240volts(x)25amps =6000watts
ask yourself: if the SPF5000es is connected via AC output and via AC input and the following conditions apply: all consumers are off, the battery is already 100% charged, i.e. fully charged, and there is full sun on the PV modules at 12:00 p.m.: what happens to the EXCESS electricity from the PV system then ? (does it flow back into the public grid via AC output or AC input?) thank you
It will not do that. This is an off-grid style inverter and is not configured internally to be "grid tied" with the ability to sell back to the grid.
Top right wires from sub panel is it gonna be your loads to the other panel ?
It is the main conductor to power the main panel.
Hi there ! Just quick question. Do you think 4mm2 flex cable will be thick enough for the same inverte what you have only 3.5kv model i need it to run from a fuse box to inverter and s about 15meters the only reason for that is can’t any closer .just wonder 4mm2 or 6 but many web it says 4mm can handle easy 3.5 kw 32 amp and is only single phase .many thanks
There is a big difference between 4mm and 4mm2 (squared). You would need to use 4mm which is equivalent to 6awg (American Wire Gauge). 4mm2 is way too small and would be equivalent to 11awg.
What exactly does the transformer do? Does it balance the power coming from the solar system to the grid?
It splits the 240v output from this type of inverter to two 120v legs
Looking forward on the programming video .
Cool
Common protocol would treat black wire as Line 1 (2 wire, blk & wht, 120v) where as the added wire in a 3 wire system (blk, wht & red, 240v), the red ,added wire, would be treated as Line 2.
Little puzzled the AC out on the Grow Watt, L1 is Hot or Common, L2 is the Neutral. You connected L2 to the breaker which will create a Dead Short! Neutrals should be landed in your sub panel on the Neutral bar.
That is not what I did. These inverters are 240v only. They both have 2 lines. A L1(red) and L2(black) (it is incorrectly labeled with an N)(refer to Signature Solar's video). There is no dead short. Transformer creates a neutral leg. Those neutrals are all tied to the neutral bus separate from the grounds in the sub-panel. The neutral ground bond is made downstream at the main panel.
Hi dear please I need to know what is the main job of the transformer and if it's on the input or on output
Why did you set up the power station area in the house instead of doing a separate building designated for this? I’m curious because I’m considering increasing the size of my pump house to accommodate everything for the solar power setup/station. Thanks in advance!
It is much easier to monitor and manipulate in the house. Additionally it is easier to keep them in the proper temperature and humidity range in the house.
Did you ever find out about the grounding question for the inverters? I have this same set up and I'm to the point of wiring everything up. I was wondering the same thing about the ground.
Not yet.
Of course you have to ground the inverters. If there's a fault internally, and you get either the high-voltage DC or the inverter output present on the cabinet, it's a (fatal) safety issue. You need a ground to divert those fault currents and hopefully trip an upstream breaker somewhere.
What you've not mentioned anywhere is where in your system you will by tying neutral to ground. Presumably that's still happening back in your main panel (and still happens when the 70A breaker there is open). You'll need to keep that in mind if you later install some sort of automatic transfer switch. There should be only one place in your system that ground and neutral are tied together, and you should be planning the system design to include that aspect.
Did you need to get this inspected? Also how did it work with homeowners insurance?
I live in the countryside. No inspection needed.
Not sure if I missed it or not but what is the purpose of that transformer? You referred to it as a balancing transformer. Thank you.
No problem. Growatt 5000es inverters are 250v output. You need a balancing transformer to produce 120v for the majority of your house loads in the US.
@@CountryLivingExperience yeah I just got my Growatt MIN 7600TL-XH-US in the other day. I’ve been purchasing bits and pieces here and there getting ready for the install, and when I saw that transformer, I wanted to make sure I didn’t miss something.
Mines a 240Vac Split Phase
As I’m reading right now, I see it states(Grid support utility interactive transformer-less hybrid inverter). Can’t wait to see how she does!!
Cool. Have fun with your install!
Good information , thank you . I have just fitted 2x of these to my 10 kw off grid system and all was running well for 3 days .I then added the wifi dongles and now the system shuts down in 2 minutes !
Have you fitted yours yet ? If so did you have this problem ?
As far as I can deem it may need a firmware update ?
I choose not to get the dongles. Sorry, I can't help. I would give Sig Solar a call (if you purchased it from them).
so having 2 5k inverters you have 10 how often to you get close to using the full 10k? currently i have a gas gen its a 17.5 kw i can almost run my whole house on it, minus the dryer when the ac is on or vise versa. when i calc it out tho using my average KWH from the power company that math comes out to around 3800 kwh a day. I really like your set up and i am so close to pulling the trigger.
Cool, thanks. I could use the 10kw easily if I was not smart about how I used my appliances. I just have to think about what I am using. I did a video on testing/running the loads in my house including stove, oven, water heater, dryer, all lights and phantom loads, etc.....ruclips.net/video/FHCJIW2zcwE/видео.html.
Hi, I'm trying to get educated because we're going off grid soon.
I apologize for my question, I'm a woman and technical things don't click on me as eassy yet I'm trying 😤. Why 2 inverters?
Thanks for your efforts!
No problem. I am happy to help.
Each inverter can only provide 5kw of power. If you turn on the stove and it uses 4kw of power and then want to run the dryer which also needs 4kw to run, you will be at a deficit. You would need 8kw at one time. So for my house 2 inverters that are 5kw (10kw total) provide what I need at any one time.
I got the same wires you use for solar panels i see yu have smaller wires are the wires used for solar panels too big for this ?
Not sure which part you are referring to. Can you rephrase your question please?
I’m installing the same system but very concerned that there’s no way to know if the transformer fails (which will cause a floating neutral). All signature solar says is to make sure it’s grounded correctly so excess voltage in that event will have somewhere to go (instead of burning up your appliances or house) but there’s got to be a better solution. Do you have any ideas about that?
I am following their recommendations on how to install the system. They are the experts so I have to trust what they say. As far as I understand if the inverters feed 240 back to your main panel, your 120 circuits cannot utilize it and they just won't work.
@@CountryLivingExperience There is a lot of chatter about this problem (check out this guys attempt at a solution ruclips.net/video/p7Gub4PB1Dk/видео.html). With a failed transformer/floating neutral the voltage will go crazy if not balanced and could burn up appliances and homes. Only excessive current, not voltage, will trip normal AC circuit breakers. I’ve talked to Signature Solar quite a bit about this and they don’t have a great solution. Their in-house electrical engineer, Mike, said to run the “AC out” through a breaker barely big enough to pass the current (he said 23 amps…I don’t think those exist) so any fluctuations would trip it. It honestly sounded like he wasn’t very confident though. He also said to ground it properly so excessive voltage has a place to go. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out a good solution.
Solaredge, who makes the transformer, designed it with a temp sensor that will shut off their inverter if it overheats. I wish they’d provide a real solution since they sell the transformer specifically for that Growatt. Ultimately, they’d blame you for not using a licensed electrician, but no run of the mill electrician would know about this problem.
David Poz has digital voltmeters to monitor fluctuations. That’s better than nothing.
I too am using the same exact main components. S.S. told me that if the transformer failed, the 120vac loads just wouldn’t work. I’m probably being overly cautious, but to ease my mind I ordered a second transformer. Just need to know how to install it. I’m about a week out from being ready to assemble my entire system. I pray it looks as organized as your. Great video!
Very cool. Thanks George. I think I may order a backup as well.
@@georgedrenes8143 When you connect your second auto-transformer, could you let us know how you did it?
Quick question: on the Generator Interlock Kit. Do you have a generator installed on this system or you using this just based on the solar system. I just ordered the majority of my solar products.
I do not have a generator installed. I use the solar like a generator.
This is my last question I don't mean to bother u I just don't wanna mess up my inverter when it gets here can I do that same configuration using that SolarEdge transformer on a single phase 230v inverter that only has L & N on the output??
No worries.
I do not know anything about the inverter brand you have. I cannot properly advise you on what to do. There has to be a ground somewhere. I suggest joining the DIY Solar Forum and asking question of the guys there.
@@CountryLivingExperience the ground is on the case of the inverter it's one of them PowMr inverters looks just like the MPP Solar PIP LV6548
I live in a double wide trailer will A 3KW inverter be enough to run off grid?
Probably not but you will have to do some load calculations to see what your actual usage is first.
Playing dumb here but what is the purpose of the Transformer, is this to do 240 appliances? Is it necessary to plug into the system?
The transformer splits the 240v into two 120v legs for our 120v loads.
Thanks 👍
You're welcome
Good night
I have two sungold hybird inverters installed in a parallel as.master and slave. When ever I manually switch from SBU tO SUB the slave inverter
Switches to error and shut down. It has to be reset manually. Do you have an idea what is causing this problem and what can be done?
Thanks for your help.
I am not sure. I am unfamiliar with the Sungold inverters.
@@CountryLivingExperience Thank you
you diddnt comment on the ground bar if it was put in by you or did it come like that , i got random breakers 40amp and a random panel box 60amp , do you think most breakers are compatible with panel boxes ?
Breakers need to matched to the box. GE breakers with a GE box, etc. I put on the grounding bar. It comes with the box.
Omg thanks for the reply will have to re order
Looking great.
Thank you
How do you like your growatt 5kw inverter? I am thinking about getting that one, or waiting on the signature solar branded one that will be 3kw. Also, how have you found signature solar to work with regards to communication and customer service?
I like them a lot.
Make sure you only buy it from Sig Solar. They are the only Growatt seller in the US that has had the inverter modified to work properly with the American grid. There is a huge thread on this over at the DIY Solar Power Forum.
I understand that this growatt is customized to suit US requirements, i am not living in US, power here is 220v and 50hz. If i buy this model from my local original dealer in my country, will it be of the same mentioned quality and features? My worry if the non US version could be bad or completely different? I did not see reviews for non US version of Growatt or at least a comparison between original and US version model
I do not know what is available in your country. Growatt is sold around the world and they have a good reputation but there are some clones that have been made.
I would be interested why you used the Growatt which requires an auto transformer to operate. I have been looking at the EG4 units which create the 240/120 in the unit.
The EG4 did not exist at the time I purchased my Growatts.
I'll let the secret out of the bag......I have two new EG4's on the way right now. Stay tuned for installation videos for them.
Hey the amzn link you have is not working anymore... do you have a link to the AC panel you're using?
Sorry, they change so often. Here is an updated link.....amzn.to/3xp05D2
Awesome stuff as always! Would you go for this setup over growatts 12kw all in one? The 12kw already has a built in transformer as well so it seems much simpler. What do you think? Specifically the SPF 12000T DVM MPV.
I liked this setup because I can stack these. You can't stack the 12kw. So If I want more power, I can keep scaling up.
HOWdy C-L-E, ...
Whenever landing STRANDED Wire ( especially 8 awg & larger )
FERRULES keep everything together & tight
I landed my CIRCUIT BREAKERS before my FERRULES & CRIMPER arrived
When I removed the Stranded 8 gauge wire from the circuit breakers
I was disappointed with how much they had "loosened" and MASHED out away from the CONTACTS
Same inside my GroWATT INVERTER ... the SOLID COPPER Wires were fine ... but ... the Stranded wires had "lost" their TORQUE
Just an FYI
Thought # 2 ... if it is the least bit HUMID or DAMP ... consider some "NOX-OX" or "OX-GARD" on all your connectors
& the knife edges on your Circuit-Breakers where they slide on your BUS-BARS inside your Circuit Breaker box
& where steel screws into aluminum etc Etc ETC ...
Thanks for sharing your SYSTEM & PLANNING
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
Thanks
Just wondering why do you need a sub panel when you could have bring line 1 and line 2 and your neutral directly to your main panel using your double pole breaker, thus feeding each 12V leg. Am I wrong here?
You cannot do that because these are 240v inverters. You need the sub panel to utilize the mid-point transformer to split that and create the neutral leg (2 legs of 120v). If you just rant that inverter back to your main, you would fry your 120v loads.
I liked an subscribed
yes 30 amp breakers are for the 3000w inverters but the manual says 10awg wire for the 5000 but probably you are right, the manual is really bad
They have updated the manual and continue to update other ones.
You mentioned the manual states 40A breakers are needed for the inverters. Do you happen to have V4.0? My manual is V3.0 and states on p.9 that a 50A is required for the SPF 5000 ES. I am wondering if they updated the manual/requirement as I believe David Poz was surprised that a 50A was originally called for, and am about to purchase my breakers. Thanks, your video was a lot of help.
I also have V3.0. They are changing and updating them so quickly. I went with 8ga wire which a 40a breaker is appropriate for. I am not sure why they state 50a in the manual. When I originally talked to Sig Solar they told me 30a breakers and 10ga wire but they may have been mistaken and though I purchased the spf 3500. Regardless, if the breaker is too small it will just trip a bit earlier. I will probably just stick with the 40's and see what happens. Glad we could help out.
@@CountryLivingExperience Excellent, thank you for taking the time to respond, I know you have a lot of comments to get to, appreciate it.
You're welcome
Just an FYI, The SPF 5000 ES User manual on page 9 and page 25 Calls for the 8 awg wire and a 50A BREAKER. I'm building the same system and if I'm wrong about that please let me know. Also, I'm using 2 split phase Growatt transformers. I see how one is wired in, would the second one be wired in the same just connecting to its own 20A, 25A or 30A breaker??(I'm not sure what size is needed) Would they automatically share splitting the voltage. The reason I got 2 transformers is I'm more worried about the breaker tripping due to breaker failure than transformer overload and 2 seems to improve both problems. Over the years (I'm 69 Years old) I have seen breakers trip from breaker failure a few times. Any comments would be appreciated.
I know. I was following advice from other sources more familiar with electricity than I. I am not an electrician. It is best to follow the manual or contact the solar equipment dealer that you bought it from. Each inverter should be on it's own breaker. When paralleled and communicating with each other, the inverters will share the work.
@@CountryLivingExperience Thanks. Also confirmed by SS.
Newbie question...What is the purpose of the transformer? I've never seen it used on the other bigillion videos I've watched. Is it because most of the videos I've watched are using batteries? Thanks.
Since these are 240v inverters, you need a midpoint transformer to split the 240v into two 120v legs for your home. Batteries have nothing to do with it. There are many inverters on the market that are 240v like these Growatts and some Victron models.
Hello I've washed a couple installers of this solar edge transformer my question is if the inverter only have a line & neutral output with no ground can the SolarEdge transformer be used still or no?? I don't want to buy this inverter if I can't use it the input has three line neutral ground the output only has two
Sorry, I do not understand what you are saying. The transformer has a ground.
@@CountryLivingExperience yes I just thought about that lol I'm just nervous with all this that's all I didn't want to waste $500 on this inverter coming when I seen that it didn't have a ground on the AC output
Just curious the reason you didnt use conduit for the cables to the inverter? Is it not required?
I mentioned in the video that I was putting them on later after I get the system working.
@@CountryLivingExperience oh cool i missed that nic informative video much appreciate the detailed walk through
Great video
Thank you
So the transform is just there to give you a neutral even though if you look the neutral and ground are combined in the meter
No. The transformer give me two 120v legs from the 240v inverter.
@@CountryLivingExperience so the transform is taking L1 or L2 and taking 180 dregs out of phase to to make true 240.
This video from Signature Solar will explain it. ruclips.net/video/NVnJhFxCFHw/видео.html
@@CountryLivingExperience so that company is sell inverters that are ment for the uk and not for the us
@@wolf3five No, these inverters are internally modified to work with the split phase American grid. They are the US versions.
So line is considered Line 1 and neutral is Line 2 on all these inverters basically im making me a note pad mines have no ground output im still a lil stuck on that part
Did you buy them from Sig Solar? If so, you can call and ask. Yes, L1 is line 1 and N is line 2. The ground is right next to it.
@@CountryLivingExperience my ac output terminal don't have a ground next to it just Line & Neutral on the output the input has all 3 yes ground line & neutral this is not a growat inverter from sig solar but it's same type hybrid inverter a 5000 watt 48 volt PowMr solar inverter
The transformer - is for step down to 110?
Yes, correct. Down to 120 from 240
Hi .I have a question on your balancing transformer . Why do you need one? I have the 12 k low frequency inverter. I have not installed it yet. Working on solar shed and will be moving all solar electric and batteries when done. I am totally off grid. Will I need to get the transformer? Signiture solar never mentioned it to me.
If you have this model 12kW 48V 150VDC 120A Off-Grid Inverter by Growatt, you don't need the xformer.
Growatt sells several different types of inverters. Not all of them are 240v which requires the transformer.
The Growatt 5K inverter's AC output is 240vac so there are only two output lines (both at 240vac). To supply 120vac loads you need this transformer to create a neutral line between the two 240vac lines so that neutral to either 240vac line would be 120vac.
You should put the balancing transformer in the main lugs on that panel. You don’t want there to be any chance of that panel being energized without the balancing transformer as that will destroy at least some of the 120V equipment powered from it.
The two breakers on the inverter outputs will protect the balancing transformer from short circuits and it should’ve been sized large enough to protect it from overload in the worst case unbalance that could be predicted.
I worked with the solar company (Signature Solar) and their design team. This is how they recommend connecting the system.
Okay. Looked like you put it on a 30A (you didn’t say and the video was a bit blurry). So the first time you get the blowdryer and curling iron in the bathroom and the toaster in the kitchen (just an example who knows what high draw 120V appliances happen to be on the same leg somewhere in the house) and trip that breaker you’ll lose your neutral.
Then the lines will have voltages to neutral inversely proportional to their loading. So the heavily loaded leg goes low and the lightly loaded leg goes high. It is one of the cruel ironies that heavy loads which won’t be hurt by this tend to be cheap things (blow dryer, toaster, air compressor, etc). The lightly loaded leg which will go high always seems to end up with the computers and TVs on it and they don’t like 200+ volts so much (though newer ones with universal power supplies do better).
A little example for illustration.
The house is pulling 1000W. Nicely balanced. Someone turns on a blowdryer (1800W) and the curling iron (500W) and someone else turns in the microwave (1800W) and those two circuits happen to be on the same leg. So now the legs are L1 = 500W just like before. L2 = 4600W. Should be fine right? Wrong. That 30A breaker trips after about a minute of this and then all kinds of ugliness starts. We can predict what will happen to the voltages. L2 will go to 23.5V and L1 will go to 216.5V
Moral of the story. You really do not want that balancing transformer not to be there anytime that panel is powering the house.
At the very least you should move it to the other side of the panel and install handle ties through all 6 breakers (the four from the inverters and the two from the balancing transformer) it won’t keep it from tripping by itself but at least it will keep you from accidentally turning it off while the inverters are on.
I’ve been trying to understand what happens if the auto transformer’s breaker flips. Do the two poles simply become unbalanced? Or is there more to it? What happens to the 120v circuits?
From what I understand is that it will just send 240v back to the main. The 120 circuits will just not operate.
@@CountryLivingExperience I took your word for a while, but I found out NEC section 450.5 seems to say the auto transformer isn’t allowed to have its own over current protection. It has to connect directly to the conductors.
@@benjaminpupa839 Do what you want then. Give Signature Solar a call and talk to them about it. I built my system how they instructed me to.
There is a great video of David Proz rewiring the auto transformer to the Growats with a 3 pole circuit breaker. If the transformer should go bad the breaker flips and cuts the power from the Growats to the subpanel.
@@martinhrabe9888 yes! Saw it when it was new. That seems to be the only way to meet code, since a neutral breaker independent of the hots doesn’t seem to be allowed.
Im lost on a couple of things. You called line 2 black wire a neutral then hooked it to a breaker not to the neutral bus bar . did I missed something? The other thing I don't get is it appears ( pls don't take this the wrong way) you wired the inverters into the breaker panel on 3 separate breakers which I thought was each inverter in on one breaker. And out the other side bcuz its appears to be labeled that way but I see your main lugs at the top wired like its going to the transformer. What I thought was it was supposed to go like this.. If its a 220 inverter without a built in transformer that it has no neutral/common .line 1 and 2 go to a disconnect/breaker from each inverter and are combined to go to the transformer . When it leaves the transformer that's when the neutral and both powers and ground will go into a panel to one breaker and then neutral and ground busses. Sorry I know that was a lot
Sorry, sometimes I am not to good with my explanations. I believe I connected everything as I should. Please watch Signature Solar's video on how to do it here and then get back to me...ruclips.net/video/NVnJhFxCFHw/видео.html.
I think I would put those wires in metal sheathing or pipe
So, your ground from your sub panel is routed over and connected (grounded) at your main panel?
It looks that way. I believe bonding at the main panel is the correct method.
ruclips.net/video/_XM6rXjv0vc/видео.html
Yes, it is.
The real issue is only if you connect the neutral and ground together on a sub panel,
you only do this to the main panel.
TBH Im not a certifiate electrician but electronic engineering so Im sure there is others better to answer it, but I didnt saw this point in comments.
One question, why you didnt take a 120/240 inverter instead?
no concern for floating ground or issue in case of a fail.
Some models seems to get inputs from your main AC, generator,solar, etc.. and gives a 120/240 AC output.
Cool project BTW!
Where I live electricity is still too cheap to be profitable for my needs right now to go solar, would take 35yrs to break even with current prices.
30A breakers w/ 10AWG wire are fine for the 5000ES unless you need to Run the full 5000W load and charge a battery from Grid at the same time.
I am off-grid. I don't have input from the grid to the inverters at all. We have upgraded to 40A breakers.
Hello from Northern Ireland! - I am thinking of installing 3 of these Growatt 5k inverters also in parallel to 40 panels. I can't find documentation to say if the 3 strings (one per inverter) must be the same ie: the same watts/volts/amps to each inverter -my 3 strings are slightly different.
Inverter 1 =12 panels 4320w/160v/30A
Inverter 2 =12 panels 4320w/160v/30A
Inverter 3 =16 panels 5760w/160v/40A.
Each string is within the manufacturers tolerances. Do you know if it would be ok to connect this setup in parallel or if i should keep the 3 inverters separate?
Hello. The three strings don't need to be the same however, you still need the proper amount of voltage to operate each inverter. Mine are unequal, my inverters are paralleled, and everything works perfectly.
@@CountryLivingExperience Is that "Nominal DC input voltage 48V" meaning my panels need to supply a minimum of 48v for the inverter to work properly? (does this still apply even though i will be connecting 240v mains/grid also) Thanks for your help.
@@richardleighton822 No. Growatt 5k inverters usually have a minimum input voltage of 120V (Max of 430V) to operate the MPPT. Your European models could be a little different. It should say in the manual.
Awesome videos
2 questions. Your using 25amp breakers for the transformer with number 8 wire isn’t that awful thick wire for such a low breaker size
And why does growatt suggest a 50 amp breaker in the Manuel for the 5KW but only using #10 wire.
These numbers just don’t make sense to me at all
Keep the great content coming please
Since the run is so short on those transformer conductors, it should be fine. Bump it up to a 30A if you need to.
Not sure why the Growatt manual suggested that 50A. I used 40A and 8awg.
@@CountryLivingExperience alright thanks for the help
And didn’t you used to run EG4 6.5KW?
@@cowboymcq6711 You're welcome. I actually installed the EG4's after these Growatts. I am going to use the Growatts again for my barn and well. I am in the process of making those videos.
@@CountryLivingExperience I replaced 2 my EG4 6kw for the growatts 5kw hopefully this was a good move
@@cowboymcq6711 Curious why you made the switch?
What is the transformer for
BTW- Shouldn't the big cable be inside a metal conduit?
If you are talking about the battery cable, it does not need to be in conduit. As for the smaller wires, I will be putting them in conduit once I have everything working perfectly the way I want it.
@Country Living Experience: A Homesteading Journey did you have to update your firmware since you got the inverters not that long ago? I got mine in September and they apparently need the newest update. Do you have that or know anyone who does? I couldn't find it on sig solar's site.
I have not needed to update mine. I would just give Signature Solar's tech department a call and ask. Sorry, I couldn't be more help.
@@CountryLivingExperience No worries. I appreciate the reply. Great video btw
I like your videos highlighting the Growatt inverter plus the auto-transformer. However, it seems that SDGE seems to have only simple grid-tied inverters on their approved list. I have been asking around to see if these new inverters have a chance of being approved. Otherwise it seems I have to choose a grid-tie, a transformer and charge controller and battery to add battery backup.
Please link the approved list you are talking about.
I've seen these growatt with the 120 transformer. There is a good few on you tube. Good video on the wiring. So well done on that one.
thank
You absolutely need to ground the inverter. The reason you might have struggled on the disconnect is it's only rated for 30a max (#10 wire ), you seem to be using #6. #6 is also wrong if you have it protected at 70a, needs to be #4 if landed on a 70a breaker. You need to upsize your disco and downsize your ocpd. Double check into ground and neutral bonding and if in your system the ground and neutral should be bonded or isolated!
Great. Thanks. Hopefully I can find a different knife switch. This is the only one I could find in a 50 mile radius. As for the breaker, the solar company, my electrician, and two other friends who know electricity said the 70amp is fine with 6ga so I’m sticking with that.
The Growatt SPF 5kw ES in listed as an off grid inverter. It seems to be able to operate as a hybrid inverter. Is there any difference between this inverter and what is listed as a hybrid?
The hybrid inverters listed on the Sig Solar website are made by Huawei. They are grid tie and come with an additional auto-transformer if you want to switch it to off-grid or hybrid.
The 5K IS an hybrid inverter. The ability to either be grid-tied and still work without having to be connected to an active grid in case of grid outages (in addition to PV and Batt) is what signifies this.
What gauge wire did you run from the battery cabinet to the inverters?
2 gauge. We did more vids on the system here: ruclips.net/video/I2rbxKtx5cs/видео.html and here ruclips.net/video/SrCSSc9JYSo/видео.html
@@CountryLivingExperience Thank you
Maybe I misunderstood, but I asked SS if I needed an additional transformer, to upgrade from 1 to 2 inverters; they said yes.
I think you may have misunderstood. You can use 1 transformer with up to 3 inverters.
@@CountryLivingExperience Here's what Signature Solar Told Me : "As for the 5000ES if you need split phase power you will need to get a midpoint transformer. If you plan on running 5000es' in parallel with one another a thing to keep in mind is the Midpoint transformers have a maximum output of 5000w. So if you need the entire 10000w that 2 5kES would produce you will need 2 midpoints wired paralleled together. "
@@buixote That is interesting. That is contrary to what I have been told and to what Signature Solar's RUclips channel video indicates.