I have this same problem and I’m not sure this video addresses the issue. The question is how do you generate your own pace on a slow ball without hitting out past the baseline or dumping it into the net. The first scenario is when you try to generate pace off a slow ball to put pressure on your opponent from your baseline, but end up hitting the ball out past your opponents baseline. This is either due to bad footwork/spacing, bad timing or both. The other scenario is when you end up dumping the ball into the net because you’re trying to generate more spin (faster racquet head speed) to keep the ball in the court, but you smother the slow ball with a closed racquet face. Please show us the solutions to those problems.
I agree with your assessment. They typically give great insights and guidance, but I think this video sort of misses the mark. The problem I think most encounter with dealing with slower balls is overcompensating and hitting it out.
Have you tried using your legs to move through the ball? Not necessarily swinging faster, but simply loading with your lower body to drive yourself through the ball. If speed of your shot is the only thing your looking for, "hitting with your legs" would likely help.
Hi Ray...try this...when you see a slow ball coming to you, t#1) he first thing you would like to do is make yourself more loose than the regular shots. Please do not go tight as that's a big mistake. People think that a tight hitting arm will generate power while handling slower balls but what we need to do is absolutely opposite. We need to go further loose to deal with the slower balls....#2) Assuming you get to the ball on time (beat the ball in the race), try to take more ground force than the regular shots... Now when it comes to take the forward swing to the ball..use these tips...#1) Make sure you take a faster swing forward (not slower), #2) you Swing through the ball...not at the ball (I am sure you are getting my point)...#3) when you initiate the forward swing, squeeze your grip with the last 2 fingers; and #4) finally start releasing that squeeze just before contacting the ball (make sure the release does not happen bang at the contact..it should start happening before the contact / like squeeze the release then contact then follow through). It should not be a sudden release though...the release should be natural and let it happen naturally ( do not try to stop the release forcefully / let the release too go through the ball). A last simple advise...do not let the slower balls fall down much...if you can take those anywhere near to your hip level or above...all the above things will work smoothly and you will able to generate power (with more spin) in return. just to note...the above tips may not work if you are hitting a flat shot while handling the slower balls. Hitting a flat shot against a slow incoming ball is not a wise idea always...
I play against a number of "pushers" on clay that hit soft balls. I wish your demonstration would have included showing you hitting a high soft ball. Looked to me you were dropping balls and hitting them. I'm visual so a little better view of you hitting a high slow moving ball would have been helpful.
Great tag teaching!! Love this example of hitting down the alley. I remember doing it in one of your clinics. It really works. However, I need to practice this more on the slow balls! Thanks guys, your the best!!😎
Very good tips, the advice is much appreciated about how tricky and deceptive weak balls can be. Just be mindful to extend out a bit more is good but the video does not advise how to change the direction of the shot to maybe fool or move your opponent. Or maybe to fool or surprise your opponent is not to be dealt with in this video. Anyway, 10 out 10 for you guys.
If you got nothing out of this video, then it seems either you already know the technical tips they gave, in which case that’s you not everyone else; or, you’re just not that bright.
You're explanation of why hitting slow balls make a lot of sense. But I don't understand , if the desire is to maintain a straight swing path how are you to hit cross court? thankyou Ray
This was my initial reaction too, Ray. But I suppose that having practised the drill down the alley to ensure you can hit the ball straight using this technique, you then have to transfer the skill to cross-court shots by constructing an imaginary cross-court alley in your head and changing your feet position accordingly.
Adjust body position, its a slow floaty ball. Perhaps the sweetspot path is not really linearly proceeding that much. But the idea of driving through 3 balls, helps to prevent the normal ball covering motion from occuring too early - the main problem with slow ball timing. It works very well for me to finish in front then over rather than just over the deltoid for a fast ball. If it is faster than it looked, then I just buggy whip it. Timing is the main error in striking. Disrupting timing is the most sophisticated attack. According to Bill Tilden, drag causes way more errors than bound, especially laterally when we are trying to get outside the ball and it stops...and we are now waay outside the ball...that´s how these slice battles come about, neither man can get a clean shot and both opt for neutralization. 2HB have a shorter sweetspot path due to shorter reach with two hands. Against junk ballers I just leave my 2HB in the bag and go 1HB and its way way more effective due to the longer sweetspot path. The variety and answers to variety is peerless with a good 1HB. 2HB in a slugfest is peerless but its a liabilty against soft low dinky balls. This is the main reason Fed owns Berdych - soft low angle dinkers to the backhand cannot be killed and leaves you out of position.
Hi, In regards to your statement, "The top players in the world have the longest hitting zone," that just simply isn't the case. You would be saying that the strings would be facing the direction of your target for the entire duration of this "long hitting zone." In order to make this possible, you would have to make the path of your racket go in a strictly linear fashion. And the pros don't do that. Instead, they swing their racket in a circular path on both the forehand and the backhand strokes. Swinging can only be naturally done in a circular manner, like a playground swing, and not by a linear manner. A linear swing path of the racket can only be accomplished by a pushing motion, which demands much effort and leads to little efficiency. Why do it, if the most natural way of swinging the racket is in a circular motion? You also would not get anywhere near as much power as you can with a circular swing path, so why introduce an imaginary linear swing path that does not exist? You also mentioned timing issues. We, as humans, are exceptionally talented at timing things. The flight of the ball is mechanical and predictable, thus we are able to utilize our innate ability of timing things well. A strictly circular swing would make contact when it intercepts the trajectory of the incoming ball. You also mentioned that it would be difficult to direct the ball cross court or down the line when not using this "long hitting zone." As previously stated, we are gifted at timing things with precision. When wanting to strike the ball in any of these directions, the contact point could be in front anywhere, and only you would know about how slightly "in front or behind" this contact point is. Here, you can see the swing path of Serena Williams in slow motion, from a slight angle from above. It was the best I could find from an "above" view, since no videos of a groundstroke are shown from a top-down view (that would be too eye-opening!) ruclips.net/video/vp6EgRqLMSo/видео.html The swing path is entirely circular, and there is nothing linear about it.
I think maybe it's a matter of semantics. If you look at SW's butt cap from the beginning of the video, you will see that it is very much on a linear path. Then as she makes contact she is hitting through the ball, as she was taught, and biophysics and biomechanics dictate the rotational path. That being said, the WTA forehand is much different than the ATP forehand. If you look at the super slow motion work of Brian Gordon and John Yandell, you'll see a big difference and better see the idea of the linear swing path. But yes, the pros have by far a more linear swing path than amateurs and lower level players (just compare how short an amateur's and LLP swing paths are and how much more quickly they pull off the ball), and the pros stay in the hitting zone far longer than LLPs.
"If you look at SW's butt cap from the beginning of the video, you will see that it is very much on a linear path." Your eyes are deceiving you. There is no presence of any linear path in the stroke. From 0:18 to 0:50, if you were to draw two different colored dots at each of those points that correspond to the hand and racket head, both of those dots would clearly be in a circular path. "the WTA forehand is much different than the ATP forehand." Different as in what? The way they take their rackets back? All mechanics of a tennis stroke remain the same. No matter what, it will always be a swing and the ball will be struck. Nothing different here. "the pros have by far a more linear swing path . . . and the pros stay in the hitting zone far longer than LLPs." If anything, you have it backwards. The amateurs and lower level players are overwhelmingly the ones who tend to have this "linear swing path," due to their susceptibility to the misinformation that there is a linear component to the tennis stroke, like the beliefs that one should "have a long hitting zone" or "guide the ball to the target." After all, they are the ones who are the "intended audiences" of the tennis instruction videos you see on RUclips. The most natural and easiest way of swinging the racket would be to swing it in a circular path. This principle is also evident in other sports like baseball and golf. Leave the linear path to billiards, where the path of the cue goes straight through the pool ball. Any attempts to distort this circular swing path, whether it be by introducing a linear component or "pushing" the ball, is against the law of conservation of momentum. Such attempts can only be done at a low racket velocity and not a high racket velocity, where it becomes impossible to do. A contrived or distorted swing path is neither consistent nor repeatable. A circular swing is, since you do not have to change anything at all. Your arm just naturally swings around the shoulder joint, creating that "circular swing path." The pros are not all perfect. Like us, they can also be susceptible to misinformation. Some have their own technical flaws. Just look at Raonic and Jack Sock's strokes. Do they look replicable? ruclips.net/video/cCG-nUL4lH4/видео.html ruclips.net/video/CWqrVOW_-SE/видео.html Federer, Wawrinka, Djokovic, and Nadal are excellent examples of ball strikers. Why do you think Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic still continue to rule the top rankings? Perhaps their technical proficiency of striking the ball has to do with this? The belief that you must "stay in the hitting zone" is false. You can indeed direct the ball with precision using a circular swing. We all have this exceptional and natural ability of "timing." It is ingrained in us. This ability, as with all other abilities, takes time to practice and master. But once you get the hang of it, it starts to feel easier and you are well on your way to timing things that you had trouble with in the beginning. Then you will know how far out "in front" or "behind" you have to contact the ball in order to direct it one way or the other. Cross court, down the line, you name it, shots will happen as a result of the timing of your contact without your worry of "guiding the ball" or "staying with the ball." The idea of a "hitting zone" is useless. Here is a video showing the reality of what the contact with the ball actually looks like. ruclips.net/video/Drj_YaaSEuU/видео.html The contact lasts for a length of only 1.5 inches. The time is only 1 millisecond - Basically instantaneous and much more faster than the blink of an eye! Do you think you can influence the ball in any way by distorting your swing path in that extremely small window of time? So what is with the teachings of "guiding the ball" or "staying with the ball," thinking that these beliefs would somehow be able to control the ball? The collision of the ball leads to an immediate explosion of the ball off the strings of the racket. Anything you do after the collision occurs is utterly useless and has no effect on the ball at that point. Yet, the teachings of "guiding the ball" and "staying with the ball" are embraced and the notion of "minimal" contact with the ball is considered as heresy.
@@HeHeMC3 We are going to have to agree to disagree here. I am not using my eyes; I am using state of the are super slow mo cameras and body suits that have been hooked up to the top players, and computerized technology to analyze the results. Like I said, check out the work of John Yandell and Brian Gordon, whose work drove the basis for the work we are doing with the US Olympic team for analysis of tennis primarily, with the technology being implemented in other sports as well. This high technology debunks much of the thinking that was prevalent in tennis. Let's just think about this though: if you are talking about a purely circular swing path, then there is ONLY ONE INSTANTANEOUS POINT IN THAT CIRCULAR SWING PATH that contact must be made to get the ball to go where you want it. Where is this circular swing path coming from? The body? The arm? But again, I think we are dealing with semantics here. From the high technology research and computerized review that has been done, the circular swing path is a function of biophysics and biomechanics after a much more complex set of parameters have been met. I appreciate your youtube videos, but they really tell you nothing. You will need to look at the much more advanced video and computerized analysis. Our research is not released yet, but like I said, check out John Yandell and Brian Gordon, the pioneer or super slow mo, biomechanical body instrumentation, and computer analysis. You also talk about 1.5 inches and 1 millisecond. Basically true, depending on which research you are quoting, but basically everything is very small and instantaneous. However, the mechanics and physics that deal with this are undeniable. Once again, a purely circular swing path would give you one precise and instantaneous point that you'd be able to hit the ball and get it to go where you wanted it to. Nobody EVER is or ever will be that good. Please check out Yandell and Gordon.
Excellent. Precise technique to better time the most difficult to time ball in tennis - balls dropping vertically through the strike zone. I do this effectively and also play on or inside the paint to catch them faster before they die. Oh yeah, forget topspin, you will frame every second one and dump the other in the net weakly. There is no effective reply to slow flat floaters than med flat balls until they get tempted and hit one just hard enough to be tasty. Against dinkers I feed their FH where they will swing more often...BH is the pushier side and ironically the more effective side in dulling power. There are different swings for different situations. A good opponent will give you precisely what you hate ( because you don´t know what to do with this shot ) A good tactical team will cut a couple of bashers to pieces. I have been both in my half century career.
I have this same problem and I’m not sure this video addresses the issue. The question is how do you generate your own pace on a slow ball without hitting out past the baseline or dumping it into the net. The first scenario is when you try to generate pace off a slow ball to put pressure on your opponent from your baseline, but end up hitting the ball out past your opponents baseline. This is either due to bad footwork/spacing, bad timing or both. The other scenario is when you end up dumping the ball into the net because you’re trying to generate more spin (faster racquet head speed) to keep the ball in the court, but you smother the slow ball with a closed racquet face. Please show us the solutions to those problems.
I agree with your assessment. They typically give great insights and guidance, but I think this video sort of misses the mark. The problem I think most encounter with dealing with slower balls is overcompensating and hitting it out.
Have you tried using your legs to move through the ball? Not necessarily swinging faster, but simply loading with your lower body to drive yourself through the ball. If speed of your shot is the only thing your looking for, "hitting with your legs" would likely help.
Forty Love of Tennis - Understood and will give it a try tonight. Would still like to hear a response from the instructors as well.
Hi Ray...try this...when you see a slow ball coming to you, t#1) he first thing you would like to do is make yourself more loose than the regular shots. Please do not go tight as that's a big mistake. People think that a tight hitting arm will generate power while handling slower balls but what we need to do is absolutely opposite. We need to go further loose to deal with the slower balls....#2) Assuming you get to the ball on time (beat the ball in the race), try to take more ground force than the regular shots...
Now when it comes to take the forward swing to the ball..use these tips...#1) Make sure you take a faster swing forward (not slower), #2) you Swing through the ball...not at the ball (I am sure you are getting my point)...#3) when you initiate the forward swing, squeeze your grip with the last 2 fingers; and #4) finally start releasing that squeeze just before contacting the ball (make sure the release does not happen bang at the contact..it should start happening before the contact / like squeeze the release then contact then follow through). It should not be a sudden release though...the release should be natural and let it happen naturally ( do not try to stop the release forcefully / let the release too go through the ball).
A last simple advise...do not let the slower balls fall down much...if you can take those anywhere near to your hip level or above...all the above things will work smoothly and you will able to generate power (with more spin) in return.
just to note...the above tips may not work if you are hitting a flat shot while handling the slower balls. Hitting a flat shot against a slow incoming ball is not a wise idea always...
I have the same problem overcompensating for these balls too
I love the idea of using alley as a mental guide of the contact zone. Thank you!
I play against a number of "pushers" on clay that hit soft balls. I wish your demonstration would have included showing you hitting a high soft ball. Looked to me you were dropping balls and hitting them. I'm visual so a little better view of you hitting a high slow moving ball would have been helpful.
Great tag teaching!! Love this example of hitting down the alley. I remember doing it in one of your clinics. It really works. However, I need to practice this more on the slow balls! Thanks guys, your the best!!😎
Very good tips, the advice is much appreciated about how tricky and deceptive weak balls can be. Just be mindful to extend out a bit more is good but the video does not advise how to change the direction of the shot to maybe fool or move your opponent. Or maybe to fool or surprise your opponent is not to be dealt with in this video. Anyway, 10 out 10 for you guys.
Not every problem is a technical problem that requires addressing mechanics of the swing.
For anyone who came here looking how to deal with zero pace on the ball, this really does not cover it adequately. Surprisingly disappointing.
If you got nothing out of this video, then it seems either you already know the technical tips they gave, in which case that’s you not everyone else; or, you’re just not that bright.
Usually if I’m not happy with the pace of the ball to the backhand , I’ll always just slice. Saves me always over playing slow balls
That drill does promote contact swing path but it also seems to introduce too much tension.
You're explanation of why hitting slow balls make a lot of sense. But I don't understand , if the desire is to maintain a straight swing path how are you to hit cross court? thankyou Ray
This was my initial reaction too, Ray. But I suppose that having practised the drill down the alley to ensure you can hit the ball straight using this technique, you then have to transfer the skill to cross-court shots by constructing an imaginary cross-court alley in your head and changing your feet position accordingly.
Adjust body position, its a slow floaty ball. Perhaps the sweetspot path is not really linearly proceeding that much. But the idea of driving through 3 balls, helps to prevent the normal ball covering motion from occuring too early - the main problem with slow ball timing. It works very well for me to finish in front then over rather than just over the deltoid for a fast ball. If it is faster than it looked, then I just buggy whip it.
Timing is the main error in striking. Disrupting timing is the most sophisticated attack. According to Bill Tilden, drag causes way more errors than bound, especially laterally when we are trying to get outside the ball and it stops...and we are now waay outside the ball...that´s how these slice battles come about, neither man can get a clean shot and both opt for neutralization.
2HB have a shorter sweetspot path due to shorter reach with two hands. Against junk ballers I just leave my 2HB in the bag and go 1HB and its way way more effective due to the longer sweetspot path. The variety and answers to variety is peerless with a good 1HB. 2HB in a slugfest is peerless but its a liabilty against soft low dinky balls. This is the main reason Fed owns Berdych - soft low angle dinkers to the backhand cannot be killed and leaves you out of position.
Hi,
In regards to your statement, "The top players in the world have the longest hitting zone," that just simply isn't the case. You would be saying that the strings would be facing the direction of your target for the entire duration of this "long hitting zone." In order to make this possible, you would have to make the path of your racket go in a strictly linear fashion. And the pros don't do that. Instead, they swing their racket in a circular path on both the forehand and the backhand strokes. Swinging can only be naturally done in a circular manner, like a playground swing, and not by a linear manner. A linear swing path of the racket can only be accomplished by a pushing motion, which demands much effort and leads to little efficiency. Why do it, if the most natural way of swinging the racket is in a circular motion? You also would not get anywhere near as much power as you can with a circular swing path, so why introduce an imaginary linear
swing path that does not exist?
You also mentioned timing issues. We, as humans, are exceptionally talented at timing things. The flight of the ball is mechanical and predictable, thus we are able to utilize our innate ability of timing things well. A strictly circular swing would make contact when it intercepts the trajectory of the incoming ball. You also mentioned that it would be difficult to direct the ball cross court or down the line when not using this "long hitting zone." As previously stated, we are gifted at timing things with precision. When wanting to strike the ball in any of these directions, the contact point could be in front anywhere, and only you would know about how slightly "in front or behind" this contact point is.
Here, you can see the swing path of Serena Williams in slow motion, from a slight angle from above. It was the best I could find from an "above" view, since no videos of a groundstroke are shown from a top-down view (that would be too eye-opening!)
ruclips.net/video/vp6EgRqLMSo/видео.html
The swing path is entirely circular, and there is nothing linear about it.
I think maybe it's a matter of semantics. If you look at SW's butt cap from the beginning of the video, you will see that it is very much on a linear path. Then as she makes contact she is hitting through the ball, as she was taught, and biophysics and biomechanics dictate the rotational path. That being said, the WTA forehand is much different than the ATP forehand. If you look at the super slow motion work of Brian Gordon and John Yandell, you'll see a big difference and better see the idea of the linear swing path. But yes, the pros have by far a more linear swing path than amateurs and lower level players (just compare how short an amateur's and LLP swing paths are and how much more quickly they pull off the ball), and the pros stay in the hitting zone far longer than LLPs.
"If you look at SW's butt cap from the beginning of the video, you will see that it is very much on a linear path."
Your eyes are deceiving you. There is no presence of any linear path in the stroke. From 0:18 to 0:50, if you were to draw two different colored dots at each of those points that correspond to the hand and racket head, both of those dots would clearly be in a circular path.
"the WTA forehand is much different than the ATP forehand."
Different as in what? The way they take their rackets back? All mechanics of a tennis stroke remain the same. No matter what, it will always be a swing and the ball will be struck. Nothing different here.
"the pros have by far a more linear swing path . . . and the pros stay in the hitting zone far longer than LLPs."
If anything, you have it backwards. The amateurs and lower level players are overwhelmingly the ones who tend to have this "linear swing path," due to their susceptibility to the misinformation that there is a linear component to the tennis stroke, like the beliefs that one should "have a long hitting zone" or "guide the ball to the target." After all, they are the ones who are the "intended audiences" of the tennis instruction videos you see on RUclips.
The most natural and easiest way of swinging the racket would be to swing it in a circular path. This principle is also evident in other sports like baseball and golf. Leave the linear path to billiards, where the path of the cue goes straight through the pool ball. Any attempts to distort this circular swing path, whether it be by introducing a linear component or "pushing" the ball, is against the law of conservation of momentum. Such attempts can only be done at a low racket velocity and not a high racket velocity, where it becomes impossible to do. A contrived or distorted swing path is neither consistent nor repeatable. A circular swing is, since you do not have to change anything at all. Your arm just naturally swings around the shoulder joint, creating that "circular swing path."
The pros are not all perfect. Like us, they can also be susceptible to misinformation. Some have their own technical flaws. Just look at Raonic and Jack Sock's strokes. Do they look replicable?
ruclips.net/video/cCG-nUL4lH4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/CWqrVOW_-SE/видео.html
Federer, Wawrinka, Djokovic, and Nadal are excellent examples of ball strikers. Why do you think Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic still continue to rule the top rankings? Perhaps their technical proficiency of striking the ball has to do with this?
The belief that you must "stay in the hitting zone" is false. You can indeed direct the ball with precision using a circular swing. We all have this exceptional and natural ability of "timing." It is ingrained in us. This ability, as with all other abilities, takes time to practice and master. But once you get the hang of it, it starts to feel easier and you are well on your way to timing things that you had trouble with in the beginning. Then you will know how far out "in front" or "behind" you have to contact the ball in order to direct it one way or the other. Cross court, down the line, you name it, shots will happen as a result of the timing of your contact without your worry of "guiding the ball" or "staying with the ball."
The idea of a "hitting zone" is useless. Here is a video showing the reality of what the contact with the ball actually looks like.
ruclips.net/video/Drj_YaaSEuU/видео.html
The contact lasts for a length of only 1.5 inches. The time is only 1 millisecond - Basically instantaneous and much more faster than the blink of an eye! Do you think you can influence the ball in any way by distorting your swing path in that extremely small window of time?
So what is with the teachings of "guiding the ball" or "staying with the ball," thinking that these beliefs would somehow be able to control the ball? The collision of the ball leads to an immediate explosion of the ball off the strings of the racket. Anything you do after the collision occurs is utterly useless and has no effect on the ball at that point. Yet, the teachings of "guiding the ball" and "staying with the ball" are embraced and the notion of "minimal" contact with the ball is considered as heresy.
@@HeHeMC3 We are going to have to agree to disagree here. I am not using my eyes; I am using state of the are super slow mo cameras and body suits that have been hooked up to the top players, and computerized technology to analyze the results. Like I said, check out the work of John Yandell and Brian Gordon, whose work drove the basis for the work we are doing with the US Olympic team for analysis of tennis primarily, with the technology being implemented in other sports as well. This high technology debunks much of the thinking that was prevalent in tennis. Let's just think about this though: if you are talking about a purely circular swing path, then there is ONLY ONE INSTANTANEOUS POINT IN THAT CIRCULAR SWING PATH that contact must be made to get the ball to go where you want it. Where is this circular swing path coming from? The body? The arm? But again, I think we are dealing with semantics here. From the high technology research and computerized review that has been done, the circular swing path is a function of biophysics and biomechanics after a much more complex set of parameters have been met. I appreciate your youtube videos, but they really tell you nothing. You will need to look at the much more advanced video and computerized analysis. Our research is not released yet, but like I said, check out John Yandell and Brian Gordon, the pioneer or super slow mo, biomechanical body instrumentation, and computer analysis. You also talk about 1.5 inches and 1 millisecond. Basically true, depending on which research you are quoting, but basically everything is very small and instantaneous. However, the mechanics and physics that deal with this are undeniable. Once again, a purely circular swing path would give you one precise and instantaneous point that you'd be able to hit the ball and get it to go where you wanted it to. Nobody EVER is or ever will be that good. Please check out Yandell and Gordon.
great lesson. It shoudl be the solution for my 10 year old boy's stroke, thank you guys ..
Excellent. Precise technique to better time the most difficult to time ball in tennis - balls dropping vertically through the strike zone. I do this effectively and also play on or inside the paint to catch them faster before they die. Oh yeah, forget topspin, you will frame every second one and dump the other in the net weakly. There is no effective reply to slow flat floaters than med flat balls until they get tempted and hit one just hard enough to be tasty. Against dinkers I feed their FH where they will swing more often...BH is the pushier side and ironically the more effective side in dulling power. There are different swings for different situations. A good opponent will give you precisely what you hate ( because you don´t know what to do with this shot ) A good tactical team will cut a couple of bashers to pieces. I have been both in my half century career.
Great explaination. I disagree with other comment.
How about the grip? Any changes?
What about crosscourt? Pls explain with video
I dont like videos like this just talk no practise