Yup, agreed. Fighting game players sometimes like to comment on why fighting games are a dying genre. Well maybe it's because we can't fucking play them when we want to, yet we can play with dozens of players simultaneously on Battlefield.
@@CanalBillCast I mean first of all if you're talking about like you know the big popular Battle Royale games. Those games have like a 1,000 times more people than a fighting game so yeah a fighting game has 50 times less people on a match but a thousand times less players to choose from. And since it's so skill-based and 1v1 the matchmaking is very much more important. And 100 player Battle Royale you can have people of varying skill levels and everybody's going to be able to have fun but if you match up a top level player with a brand new player and a fighting game it's not going to be fun for either one.
Even regular 8 vs 8 shooters like CoD cant get Skill Based Matchmaking correct. Im a decent player, win like 2-3 games and am put with the sweatiest lvl 1000+ max prestige quickscopers. Lose the game and then fight some newbies who just bought the game. You either have games that are strict and you wait 30 minutes for one match or those who are loose and play everyone from all skills.
nailed it on what needs to change. Especially with next gen the excuses for not having roll back netcode, crossplay and other features fighting games need now are quickly becoming non negotiables. Keep pushing this max. Hopefully the big companies notice this and make these changes as core concepts for all fighting games going forward.
I love Tekken 7, but man the online is rough. The connection is good most of the time, but the overall structure of the online play is leagues behind something like MK11. It's so barebones, just match with people and play. You can't switch characters or stages with that person unless you go into a player match, load times are awful, etc. Really hoping the team focuses hard on the online play for Tekken 8.
the worst of it is load times between games, even vs the same opponent using same character on the same stage. it still has to do the whole GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE and load it all up. its a problem when "instant rematch" still takes like 30 seconds minimum
Hate the load times but thank god you can't change characters. I don't want to sit there while your sweaty ass takes 30 seconds to pick a new character and loadout because you're taking this random ranked set super seriously. Take that shit to the lobbies.
Issue with crossplay is platform owners. I don't remember really about which game it was, but I remember the issue was that SONY required you to calculate and pay them whatever sales a crossplay option would cost them (since players outside of playstation didn't have to buy games on their store to play with playstation players). Something like that at least.
I love this fire the FGC has for the health of our games. We are getting better netcode after being vocal about it for a while and now with matchmaking, we are showing companies what's important for not only our enjoyment, but for the enjoyment of casuals who could be turned into regulars of those games with better matchmaking AND netcode!
Yeah, it's very frustrating to wait a lot for matches in almost all fighting games I play... Not only this, but some titles also has some extra bullshit like broken ugly lobbys, long ass loading screens, no indication of Wi-Fi players, no crossplay and no "Search for another match" option right after the end of another one! It's so exausting returning every time to training room/lobbys and watch lots of loading screens between matches online... You spend half of the time not playing the game. Edit: I updated the list of extra bullshit that I could remember, I guess there's more. XD
EVERY game needs an option to lock out trash Wi-Fi players from being able to access your online game.....IF you cannot be bothered to run a cable from the modem to the console than that person has no business playing online....I had friends that used to do that until I explained to them why its trash to use Wi-Fi to play anything online.
@@lutherheggs451 Luther please shut the fuck up you drama queen. You don't need a whole ass cable to play online. Just say you don't want people with ass connection joining your lobbies. Also I bet your friends secretly despise you lmaoo
@@lutherheggs451 Cool, except some people really don't have an option. Whether it's due to financial struggles or just the layout of your home network, it's unfair to say that you MUST have an optimal setup.
Oh, and I feel the need to add, if we want more and more members of this community, we need to stop with elitist attitudes like this. It might suck to match with someone running the game on wifi in the middle of the Sahara desert on a pocket-sized satellite, but they're likely just as passionate as anyone if they still play with that kind of obstruction.
The only reason I dont boot up KoF as much is the match making in Ranked. I loved the game and learning it, but much like other fighting games, half of the time I'm not playing the game. It really is sad that for as much as fighting games are making progress, its still behind in basic online functions
I'm one of these people. My bestest friend in the whole wide world bought this game for me as a gift, knowing I was hyped as hell, and we've yet to play a single game together because he lives in another state. Thank you, SNK.
I'm glad you did mention Pokken because yeah, the speed you could get matches in that game was nuts. Interestingly, I'd say ARMS and the recently released Switch Sports also have shockingly good matchmaking. Yeah, of all companies to get matchmaking right, it's oddly Nintendo? Switch Sports isn't quite as good as the other two (oh egad I wish I could search for the next match in Chambara within the Chambara screen) but the netcode is oddly solid. I've been fighting people in China and it has been working (looks like Chambara slows down your attack animations to compensate for lag, the kind of thing that ONLY functions for that specific game). And yeah that's the entire point of Switch Sports. As you all saw, the offline experience is useless. Switch Sports is made ENTIRELY for the global ranked online play.
Agreed with GGS's current system. I'm stuck between floors 8 and 9, and sometimes there are literally nobody on those floors. Have to go to floor 10 and get my ass handed to me nonstop. Good practice, though.
I don't mind getting my ass kicked, but if that's all that happens 24/7 it still kinda sucks. I honestly had the most fun fighting people within the same floor during the release as well as when Baiken was out. I want to rank, but I feel like I find more enjoyment in the parks instead.
Being in Celestial is rough when there’s nobody there too. Now I just look like I boosted and can’t handle the rank so I’m gatekeeping when in reality it’s just empty
Isnt it also weird that your floor is independent from your character? There's no way for me to play my 2nd character without dropping my floor ranking alltogether. I like Tekkens system when it comes to this.
Tell me how mmos, mobas, arena shooters, battle royales, etc can get much more complex online infrastructure working fine to great while most 1v1 fighting games still suck ass. How in the world is that possible
Very different infrastructure and requirements, on all those genres you'll use servers, there are more players in matches so the matchmaking can be less strict and you can pretty much ignore connection quality. This means that if you have a good server, everyones connection to that defines how well the game works for them. And generally someones bad connection means that only they have a bad experience. Gross oversimplification, but matching different players over 1v1 peer to peer connections actually can involve a lot more variables and it is much easier to notice bad netcode and matchmaking in this environment than other genres. Though they still should be better than they are...
Can confirm the guilty gear thing. Bought the game a while back hesitated to play online tried going online a couple of months ago and could never find an opponents at my very noob level.
pokken to me is a phenomenal game online-wise. I brought it around 1-2 years after it came out on switch, and even then, still got online matches every 10-20 seconds. not to mention it was practically lag-free, AND on the switch. that game is magical.
Pokken's matchmaking still keeps this speed up to this day, even with its relatively low number of online players. The downside is we've reached a point where your rank basically doesn't even matter because the game is just trying to get you into a match as soon as possible with a limited player pool. Also, all this talk of Pokken is reminding me, I'd love to see a Rate the Super on Pokken DX's Burst Attacks! I love how over the top some of them are, like Croagunk's funny shadow clone super and Blastoise's mountain-destroying laser.
So basically what matters is not only the gameplay itself, but all the usual online functionalities of ALL kinds matter too. I would love to see more games trying to be ONLINE fighting games, not merely fighting games with online mode. Imagine if your typical moba, team shooter or battle royale were missing any of features like proper matchmaking and playable netcode. Nobody would even bother. Fighting games do that thing, then die in a couple of weeks, months if they are lucky, and people are surprised what happened, instead of just realising, that FGs have terrible online services incapable of just sustaining regular gameplay in general. Take a look on games like Brawlhalla. You can think whatever you want about how it looks, feels and plays as a game, but what matters it's that it's free, has a playable netcode, actual ranked mode matchmaching with reasonable ELO-like system, and crossplay to every device you can come up with, including freaking mobile. And that's how it's bigger than the next 5 biggest fighters lumped together on steamcharts only, and THEN you have all the crossplay platforms on top of that.
A Fighting Game without functioning matchmaking is like a car without wheels. It may be the best and fastest car with the best user experience of all time, but without wheels it's not going anywere. I don't want KOFXV to just die cause SNK left it without its damn wheels, the game is too good to die in such a stupid way. Also, I could've sworn I was the only one having trouble with matchmaking and thought it was something with my PC, but knowing it was just SNK fucking up the game this hard doesn't make me all that much happier. Am glad my PC's not problem tho lol
We need the online features to function. I can't travel to offline events as much as I want to just to play fighting games with my friends or with the FGC. Thanks for shining light on this issue.
These kinds of videos are always very enjoyable to watch. And Im left thinking about how similar fighting games and shooters are even though they're completely different genres. Look at Halo Infinite's Matchmaking for example, after every match you have to go search for another game instead of being put into another one right away.
I just wish for a simple MMR system like Starcraft 2 has had for a decade now, no lobbies or at least not the default, only a button "ranked" vs "unranked".
And I'd wish games would just allow me to hide empty lobbies. It's so annoying to scroll thorugh multiple lists, checking for lobbies in every region (just to find that one or two players to play with in older or dead titles). I mean, what's the point of having 10+ lobbies per region when you barely get enough people for 3 lobbies at once (this is example from DBFZ)?
I just picked this game up and yeah I thought something was up with the online.. thanks for clarifying. Hopefully spring of 2023 when they implement crossplay into this game. All this bullshit will be fixed.. sticking with it! Great game!
Not sure if is a thing. But in KOF XV if I search for "same region" founds matches faster than "any region". Don't know if the matchmaking is that broken that when you select any region it just look for people that also selected any region instead of everyone 😅 but it works for me. Ps. I live in Ireland and playing on PC
To be fair, as somewhat amateurish programmer, I can see how someone could make such a stupid mistake coding it in. "Everyone" is a tiny bit more to code than just another category named "any". It's possible, but that just speaks about how little shit SNK gives about online if they allow such crucial element of the game to be developed by total noob coders.
I think part of the problem with online fighting games is how important frames are (or at least higher level makes them). In almost every other genre people can usually play with some lag and be okay, or maybe not even notice. But in fighting games, even that .1 second delay can make that safe move unsafe and cost you the match.
FG executives should start to realize that a lot of games owe a huge part of their success to good user experience and accessibility. Granted the game needs to be also good, but that's usually not the issue with most modern fgs
Guilty Gear Strive is still pretty great if you're already on floor 10, just put in standby on training mode and you don't have to deal with the lobby and get matches pretty frequently, but being a lower level player absolutely must feel like hell, they're pretty much forced to go to floor 10 even though they're at floor 6 and will most likely get demolished up there.
It’s crazy to me that guilty gear +R has the most simple style of matchmaking, just a quick match lobby and opt-in/out of ranked is easy to play with people, but the double edge sword is that you have no idea if you are fighting a god or a newbie. But matches are fast sets of 2/3 games and you go back to the quick match lobby and fights another quickly as long as ppl are there. You can also play survival, MOM, and training mode while in that lobby to wait for matches. I haven’t had such a quick experience in any other fighter for getting matches going.
This is the reason I'm focusing my KOF XV videos on mods right now. It started as a curiosity and I ended up covering every good mod that gets released. If the matchmaking is broken, then let's enjoy offline in some way. It's really sad tho...
I'm glad you talked about this. Guilty gear had me hooked for the first 2 weeks, but then the loading times for getting into menus and the time it took to even get into a single match made me lose my patience. Dbfz also did this to me and caused me to stop playing way early. A cool lobby system is nice and all, but i still can't understand in this day and age why it takes 3 minutes to load basic stuff in fighting games.
That's so funny that you brought up Pokken. I clicked on the first video from searching "Maximilian Dood Pokken Tournament" and within the first 30 seconds you were praising the matchmaking lol.
You know what crazy, i got on today thinking I wasn't going to be able to play any ranked matches for KOFXV and I got three. But what I did differently is I went to the training room and for some reason matches came quickly for me. I don't know if it like that for any other fighting game but that was my experience today.
The training room thing is placebo, but if it works, good for you. I've sat in there for nearly an hour before I realised, "oh yeah, I'm actually looking for a match..." otherwise, I set my region to all and connection level to 3, yet I only get 200+ pings a few times before nothing else....
I was a new player in KOF XV and I thought for sure my lower level was an issue to not getting a match of my skill level. It's assuring to hear it's a general issue but it's also very discouraging for me to actually put in the time to learn the game when the only way I can get a match is players exponentially higher than my skill level leaving me completely unable to practice or learn any mechanics. I imagine there's people who didn't miss the refund window like I did so I've been left with basically no pool at my level to advance.
Unfortunately I’m in the same position as you. Hopefully matchmaking gets fixed and EVO brings in new players so we can all grow and improve together. No fun playing against people so much better. Tbh I would refund the game and just move on if I could though
Almost the entire genre is like this with Tekken 7 and DBFZ having bad matchmaking as well. The problem is these publishers are refusing to update their extremely outdated matchmaking, even though we’re in the PS5and Xbox Series X generation of consoles. Until they realize the importance of updating their matchmaking, then they’ll start to lose players and money.
@@wolfensteinabsolutely8715 after the Goenitz update made the game unplayable for Xbox players I uninstalled and downloaded SF6. After playing KOF15 for four months I understand why this game lost to Multiverses in 2022 for fighting game of the year.
Apparently the way to get around the matchmaking in KOF is to *go to Training mode while waiting for a match?* I've seen people discuss this online. It seems to get you opponents far faster than standard matchmaking.
Yeah, it weirdly seems to? Anecdotally, at my scrubby Rank of 9, I get matched up against ranks 5-10 (out of 30), and on a saturday evening, I couldn't get one match in 30 minutes while waiting in the main Ranked menu, but yesterday, waiting in training mode, I got one in like 2 minutes, which isn't great, but kind of understandable at beginner ranks over 2 months post-launch. It wouldn't surprise me if KoF15's code was so jank that it could screw up regular ranked matchmaking while training standby works mostly as intended.
What he said about ggst is so true. I got it cuz i wanted to get good at fighting games and i was actually doing it, i get to floor 7 of the tower and it wuold take 30 minutes or more to find matches. Eventually i got to floor 8 but it wuold take way too long to play. At the end i didnt get good cuz i lost all motivations to play so i could never be able to understand how to play in actual matches and not in training.
Downtime is the bane of all multiplayer centric experiences. One of the reasons I've actually recently fallen in love with Apex is you get into a game and you lose the drop fight and you're right back to main menu, you click search game and BAM are right back into a lobby in moments. Similarly it's why Escape from Tarkov boils my blood, sometimes. ESPECIALLY if you're playing with friends. Not only do you have to spend time re-gearing you're whole ass character, which can take a good minute if if you're trying to run certain things, but you also have to sit and wait for like 20-30 minutes, like if you die right off the rip to anything, while you're team does the thing they were there to do and survive; or they have to spend their time not playing the game by running as fast as possible to the nearest extract so they can get you back in. On top of all that, the matchmaking can several minutes after all of this prep to get you back into playing the game.
the game that made me realize how crazy this was was brawlhalla lmao, you play instantly and now you rematch instantly, you find new matches instantly, going from that to tekken is fuckin insane
I recently haven't been able to play matches in Guilty Gear Strive, so I deleted it. No other game of mine is having online problems right now, but in Strive I can't ever connect to a duel station or connect to matches in most lobbies. I really wish we had better functioning online in fighting games!
Guilty gear strive is so sad. I just want to hit quick match from the main menu and get paired with someone close to my level or join a simple lobby where winner stays and the rest spectate until your turn. What's so hard about that? What's funny is they had a much better system in dragonball fighterz and went backwards. The main issue with that game was trying to play against your friends. Just let me invite them easily no fancy bs.
I think ArcSys sometimes refuses to accept that Arcade days are over(at least outside of japan, dunno how's over there) and they try to recreate it in their games with this lobby system. GG Xrd has this, Strive has this and DNF Duel had this in the beta too. But online is not arcade, there are much better solutions
The "of your skill level" is a part that isn't emphasized enough. Some games have great rollback and can run smooth across entire continents if not the world but are happy to pair some one who just bought the game against literal pros. Looking at you NRS.
Tekken 7 matchmaking is being terrible for me. Not only it takes so much time to get into a match, but i mostly fighting the same guys over and over again.
It feels like the online of a lot of fighting games are designed by people who don't play online a ton or don't play other games from other genres a ton. Its like how arcsys always tries to emulate an arcade with their lobbies when the novelty of that wears off real quick if just want to get into a game. Like if the guy who made that played CoD or saw what TFH did we would at least have an option for a menu lobby
Thats it. Fighting games are truly about the competition, about self improvement and about overcoming the challenge. 15 years ago in 2007 I was studying abroad in South Korea. I had a huge crew of friends from all over the world. Internationals but also native Koreans, one big family. One of those good friends was from the US. He was older and more mature as teenage me and became something like a bigger brother to me. Someone could absolutely trust, get advise from and just have a good time with. We partied, we chilled and hung with our big crew of international and Korean friends every weekend until the break of dawn. Lots of hangovers and crazy stories. But one day we found an arcade. Since its Korea they got a huge arcade scene even still in 2007. They had a classic Street Fighter 2 Turbo machine. He suggested we get some coins and play. He asked me if I know how to play? I grew up on SF2 in the 90s and was confident, even cocky and told him its on. We both sat down, put in our coins and pressed our start buttons simultaneously. And was in for a rude awakening. He was a god. He was incredible with Ryu. I jump, perfectly timed anti air dp. I try to open him up, flawless footsies and not dropping a single combo. Consistent fireball pressure and dp in my face if I jump over. He didnt know how to play 3rd Strike and SF4 wasnt even released yet. He was an OG who was older than me. And I grew up in the 90s which meant he grew up during the golden arcade age in the US. He only knew how to play SF2 but was unparalleled in it. It was 2007 so just before SF4 came out and rebooted the age fighting games and completely resurrected the FGC. Funny how we were both two guys playing an old game in a Korean arcade to remember old times when we were just a year away from the biggest revival of fighting games and video games becoming total mainstream in general. Anyways, he was a beast. I couldnt take a single round of him. Got perfected half of the time. And had to get lucky to touch him. And I was a guy that knew fighting games growing up on SF2,3 Tekken3,4, Soul Calibur, Smash and many others. I was one of the best from where Im from. But compared to him I was a scrub. He beat me hundreds of times. I was stubborn. I was determined. I was passionate. I would not give up. would challenge him throughout a whole year over and over, it became a ritual and both of our thing. Every weekend we would hit up the arcade. Sometimes during the week when I run into him. I dont know how many coins I threw in that machine. “Another one” “Ah! This time I got you!” “One more time!” “This time I figured you out!” “Damn it!” He’d beat me consistently. And I mean kicking my ass in all ways, shapes and forms. Most of the weekends we would hang with our big international family of friends at our regular bars getting drunk and partying. Some nights him and me met some Korean cuties and sat down with them to drink, just having a good time. But I shit you not then the challenge called me and I’d tell my bro “its time”. And we ditch the girls and would head to the arcade to play some STREET FIGHTER II! Trust me, many guys thought we were crazy. They saw me and my bro meeting some beautiful Korean girls who looked like idols. The girls were into us too. But no, the challenge has called. He loved my persistence and wanted to keep his titles as undefeated. So he didnt throw me any bones. Instead of being a dick and saying he wont play anymore because he is scared to get that one loss someday he accepted the challenge every time. One, whole, year. Day after day. And me? I was just completely consumed with the desire to beat him. To get better at this game. To overcome this challenge. Get better. It was also a mirror Ryu vs Ryu. Then after 6 month or so I managed to take a round. My heart was pounding when I saw his life bar at just a pixel, every movement with surgical execution, observing his Ryu and see exactly what he is doing. I couldnt seal the deal and choked on the final round. Despair. I never forget the moment after almost a year when I finally beat him. I didnt realize how I got better. Imagine playing the same better player for months. I studied all his style, his small nuances in his decision making progress, his habits, his signature combos and moves. When I finally took two rounds from him I jumped across the arcade, stood on top of the stools and threw my fists in the air and screamed. Then I fell to the floor and rolled around like a lunatic. My bro whipped out his old phone (this was before smartphones) and filmed it all. I felt like I achieved something incredible something seemingly impossible to overcome. My bro and his unfathomable skill at this game he mastered for decades, being able to beat this even just once felt like besting a towering giant with sheer will power. What I realized years later is that I was basically labbing. Every time I player and I lost I learned something new. It made me better, gave me thick skin, developed my sense, my reaction, my execution. I learned the most important lesson for fighting games and frankly any sport or competition in life. You only get better if you lose. And if you keep losing you get better. As they say, the difference of a winner and a loser is the winner got back up on his feet one more time. We both went back home to our home countries. I ended up returning to Korea after studies for work because I fell in love with the country. He went back to the US to work. He probably got married, settled down and never played SF2 again. Its been about 15 years since we hung out. My life is very different. Im not the teenage boy I was back then and but in my 30s now. Older than the age my big bro was when we met. Living my life. But Im still play fighting games in my free time. And Im happy how gaming has become the norm now, not the unusual. Its completely mainstream now and fighting games go through another renaissance as we speak. This was a lengthy anecdote about my fighting game experiences. But I wanna say I totally agree with you. This same mentality of never giving up. It makes winners. When I play online fighting games now I have the same mentality. I make friends with players online and if they are better Im excited to try to beat them. Push myself. See how far I can go. This is how I become a better player and winning against someone finally after becoming better is one of the most rewarding experiences ever. Fight on, brotha.
I mean I know my internet isn’t great but I literally get constant errors and when I do get a match it’s the same guy every time lmao it’s frustrating and makes me not wanna play online which sucks cuz I love the game which obviously everyone does so I hope they fix this
Long post but... Sys Engineer with some thoughts... The more I think about this stuff, the more it feels like game devs really need to start diversifying their base with people from other areas of IT and software development. Maybe I'm off-base, not sure, but this has been going on for so long it's hard to imagine a mainline solution presenting itself unless they bring in more diverse technical talent. I know things always seem easier from a distance, but this is a fairly easy system to break down from a service delivery perspective. Technically complex? Sure, you need the code and design to back up the individual pieces, but just beyond that layer there should be a clear plan to really make it all cohesive. Hard to imagine it's a question of having the capital to make that possible... but it would really suck if that's the case. The fact that these people make video games professionally (fighting or otherwise) is not lost on me. I'm not a game dev. Maybe that's the point tho? Don't have to argue it much either, just look around. The biggest names in fighting games mess this up so consistently it has become the expectation. That's not how you do business. Would love to be a fly on the wall in some of their meetings (no company in particular) just to see how they manage projects, teams and really craft those ideas then execute on them.
while he was saying all these things all I could think about was brawlhalla. Rollback netcode, crossplay, free, fast matchmaking, and ranked (at least for me) only people on my level. Overall it's a great online experience in my opinion.
It’s just always been an oddity to me that a game like Halo can connect 30 people seamlessly, but a fighting game struggles to keep me connected with one other person.
One of the biggest reasons why I stopped playing KoF15 was yeah, I can't find anybody with the match making and if I did, it was against someone that felt like a pro level player who I had no chance against. Eventually I just got tired of waiting forever to find games and losing repeatedly without ever feeling like I was getting better.
Honestly. I WANT to play Guilty Gear Strive, I really do, but the way the lobbies work, man. I don't want to deal with it. Takes way too long and it feels like 50% of the time, I'm not PLAYING the game, I'm playing the lobby. I just want to play the game, and I can't. Its frustrating. I'm very hopeful Project L will have good matchmaking because it is Riot Games and they know what they're doing when it comes to that (as we know from their other titles), so it'll probably be my main fighting game when it comes out.
Another thing every fighting game needs is infinite rematches or a mode where you can infinitely rematch people. A part of why sfv is so unsatisfying to play for me is because I can only play someone once and it's done. I never get the chance to learn anything or adapt or see my opponent adapt to me.
Man! I'm not big on Fighting games, but I have been on MVC A1up, and a Stable is the ability to actually get in to a First to 10 series of matches or more. So far the most I have had the energy to ay have been 35 straight games.... I won Non not them. LOL!!! But I had a fucking BLAST!
I've had some luck getting people to join a room after but not always and when it does happen it's usually when they lose, and as soon as they get a w they leave
It's fairly straightforward just find me a match with somebody who's the closest to me and skill and location and then after a small amount of time if no matches are found expand the search to include people who are further away or who are of a greater or lesser skill. We don't need f****** rooms or floors or all this weird s*** just let me hit play and find somebody to play.
During pandemic, actual arcades were all empty due to lockdowns. I have never been to an arcade before (there aren't any anywhere near I live) but I'm prettty sure they look just like the arcade-cabinet filled lobbies of GBFV or GG Xrd.
I know that Max says online in SCV was crap but I've had a blast there and don't really remember any shitty connection issues, at least here in Europe. But the matchmaking? Godlike. You could've looked for a new opponent right after your fight ended and were usually paired before the win animation stopped playing.
As a new KOF 15 player, I’ve effectively dropped the game because of the matchmaking. Working a 9 to 5, the last thing I want to spend an hour or two doing is trying to find maybe 2 or 3 matches where I’ll probably get blown up, and then call it a night. No one has the patience for that lol.
At this point it's not even worth playing anymore. Happy to see its not just me. People will call you a scrub and tell you to git gud but completely omit that there is something wrong with KOF XV
I just happen to notice something in fighting games, mainly because fighting games are the only P2P ("Peer to Peer") connection games that still exists today: I recently moved my computer (where I play) behind a network switch for house layout reasons, after that change it was crazy hard to get any fight online in fighting (KOFXV included) and then it clicked into me, this is like the old times when you played online, you'd give your IP to your friend and he couldn't connect to you (INCOMING connection) because you needed to port forward and do some network stuff in your router, but you could connect to him (OUTGOING connection) and start a game... So this happens only if you connect directly ("Peer to Peer" like most fighting games) and doesn't have a intermediary server doing the connection and handling the initial "network negotiation" between the players, like almost all other games that are not fighting games. That "network negotiation" that the servers and the matchmaking needs to make is nothing short of cheap, and it makes sense that is not a focus in fighting games unless you have a VERY strong monetization strategy (Street Fighter 5 anyone?) Guilty Gear Strive masks this issue with the lobby system (that's why you randomly can't connect to someone sometimes), if it where ONLY matchmaking it probably would be a long wait too, good that it has a lot of players. Project L (the riot game) has a strong focus on using servers, that means (and I hope) that it would have a strong and quick matchmaking thanks to that. Welp that's my guess at least, have fun and thanks for reading my long comment!
Hey Max, it is still broken and despite all the information that we gave to SNK they did nothing. i feel cheated and gonna demand refund from them because this is not what they promised. Please make a video, podcast or something about it.
Strive lobbies also have an issue finding matches due to lack of character select. People can just refuse to play against you because they have a bad match up against your character or just don't want to play against them making finding games more annoying
I don't want people to leave kof due to SNK not resolving the matchmaking issue. I believe that when they last dlc announcements (team southtown) is released, they'll finally start working on the matchmaking problems. Fingers cross for 2 things: -They start fixing the problem -If it's fixed by that time period, the game's not dead/players leave forever cause it took so long.
If that matchmaking isn’t fixed by the release of Team Southtown the game is dead tbh. People aren’t going to accept no matchmaking 3 months after launch.
I remember when Tekken 7 first came out, there were times when I could enter a lobby, but I couldn't play anyone. I couldn't even leave the game, the lobby maker actually had to kick me out so I could leave.
I'll chime in and say we could probably look to Smash Ultimate as well. As much as people in the FGC hate Smash, it's matchmaking, years later, is still very, very fast, and I play in the top percent of the entire online playerbase (according to GSP). I am not a fan of Ultimate's ranking system, considering it's both inaccurate and forced upon you no matter how you want to play, fact of the matter, I'll still spend hours playing matches and seconds waiting for them.
@@ken7007 No, the netcode in Smash is ass. The matchmaking is superb. I've lived in multiple different locations and in every location it only takes 10s or less to actually get into a match, with a more limited pool of people.
@@CrimsoniteSP lmao superb that shit don't function right i don't care how fast i get a match "when people are on" if i'm getting put with someone that have 1 minute time with FSM on trying to camp while i have "Prefer rules on" it functions like ass even after so many patches trying to fix that broken shit. Smash4 on the Wii U worked way better at least i got exactly what I selected & doing quick play team's basically non-existent shit will start with just 2 people unlike the Wii U. Smash ultimate tried to please everyone with the online ended up pleasing no one
@@ken7007 Yeah, yeah that happens from time to time. To be fair, if you block the person you can't match with them and camping isn't a fault of the systems at play.
@@CrimsoniteSP that's the thing a lot of people have goofy settings to a point where you should just go to arenas the block list has a limit it's just bad never had this problem in smash4 it is the fault of the system when i didn't ask for it in the first place stop trying to defend it
KOF has to be the most frustrating experience as a beginner. The tutorials are, like most fight games, pathetic. They never really tell you how to deal with situations, just what the buttons do. The mission mode makes no sense: do they really think beginers are going to benefit from them? Do beginners really need to learn combos over fundamentals? But the matchmaking is a mess. Upwards of thirty minutes waiting to be matched with someone who turns out to be beyond my skill level to the point the experience is just soul destroying. I don't expect to win, but at least match me against someone reasonably close to me in _ranked_! Someone who is 0-30 is not the equal of someone that's been playing for months possibly years but has the same w/l percentage. Honestly it's about time fight game developers, and the communities they pander to, stepped outside their bubbles, took a look around and saw what actually works. Unlike this game's netcode. it's rolled back to the point no one can be found
This 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 Is why I dropped the game Poor tutorial that doesn't teach how to improve and get better at the game; only teaches how to play only someone who has been playing for 20 years would know Yamakazi and Chiziru can counter zone but I nothing in the game tells us that. Fuck KOF Killer Instinct 2013 puts this game to shame
Calling it ranked when it resets every few weeks is also a complete joke. If I play everyday I can get skillbased matchmaking one out of every five weeks.
I legitimately wish I'd never bought KOF XV on Steam day one. I spent all that time in the lab trying to learn the mechanics and fundamentals since I'd never given KOF it's fair shake in the past. Then I tried hopping online afterward, only to be met with almost no lobbies and those that I did find had subpar rollback imo. At this point I'm gonna go back to Strive or Tekken 7 while I wait for SFVI. Pretty sure I'm not buying another SnK fighter after this.
That was exactly my experience as well. I really wanted to get into this game. But SNK didn't allow me. The constant DLC releases feel like a big middle finger when you can't even play the game.
Man I hope Kof XV gets it's matchmaking fixed cause it is seriously broken and imo it will not help the players who actually want to play the game online.
I've pretty much given up searching for a fighting game I enjoy the game play of in favour of looking for one that isn't miserable to play online and it's a real struggle.
Every time we get a conversation from Uncle Max about some issues that are pervasive in fighting games, all I can think is that Riot’s Project L is gonna force every other developer to wake the fuck up.
Wait times are the main thing that kept me from really getting into Tekken 7. Like, searching for an opponent is one thing--I understand that finding a match takes time depending on region, connection, skill level, etc.--but there's so much unnecessary waiting before and after that. There are so many menus and loading screens and intro animations and victory animations and rematch timers... Just let me play the game!
Intro and victory animations are normal for any fighting game. The menus and rematch waiting time and loading menu is the problem. No excuse for a game in this gen to be taking that long
Games like Soulcalibur VI let you skip them, though. I would pay to be able to do that in Tekken and never have to sit through Negan’s stupid win quotes ever again.
another thing i think contributes to the terrible feel of the FGC matchmaking for some people is that fighting games are so unpopular that you can straight up not have ANYONE to fight depending on where you live. i have dropped 4 fighting games so far because i literally could not play them online no matter how much i tried
I mean, it is losing players. Only the most die-hard will struggle with this stuff. All the rest of the people have moved and SNK has to do something magical to ever get them back.
yeah fighting games really continue to be strange where it can thrive in one part of online but fk up another. it surprises me like another comment says where we have games like fortnite and apex that have large number of players but fighting games still struggle i mean overwatch and and call of duty games have had 8 to 12 player matches and it runs fine the whole time. i'm playing kof15, sf5, doa6 and mk11 all online atm i have gripes with all of them except doa6 funny enough and i tend to enjoy more because of it.
When will fighting game devs realize that the reason their games don’t sell is because the product itself is shitty and not because the game’s not oversimplified enough?
The thing that aggravates me the most about Kof 15 is definitely getting the same person to fight against and not knowing it until it's too late to decline the match. Why can't they just display the person's name in the 'match found' box?
You'd think in this era of 100-player battle royales there'd be better online infrastructure for a genre defined by matches with only 2 people.
Yup, agreed. Fighting game players sometimes like to comment on why fighting games are a dying genre. Well maybe it's because we can't fucking play them when we want to, yet we can play with dozens of players simultaneously on Battlefield.
This is still crazy and baffling to me...
Bruh, I've been wondering the same thing for a while myself lol.
@@CanalBillCast I mean first of all if you're talking about like you know the big popular Battle Royale games. Those games have like a 1,000 times more people than a fighting game so yeah a fighting game has 50 times less people on a match but a thousand times less players to choose from. And since it's so skill-based and 1v1 the matchmaking is very much more important. And 100 player Battle Royale you can have people of varying skill levels and everybody's going to be able to have fun but if you match up a top level player with a brand new player and a fighting game it's not going to be fun for either one.
Even regular 8 vs 8 shooters like CoD cant get Skill Based Matchmaking correct. Im a decent player, win like 2-3 games and am put with the sweatiest lvl 1000+ max prestige quickscopers. Lose the game and then fight some newbies who just bought the game. You either have games that are strict and you wait 30 minutes for one match or those who are loose and play everyone from all skills.
Fighting games lore-"Can we just get a functional product???"
"No"
-companies
nailed it on what needs to change. Especially with next gen the excuses for not having roll back netcode, crossplay and other features fighting games need now are quickly becoming non negotiables. Keep pushing this max. Hopefully the big companies notice this and make these changes as core concepts for all fighting games going forward.
Well said, could not agree more.
I love Tekken 7, but man the online is rough. The connection is good most of the time, but the overall structure of the online play is leagues behind something like MK11. It's so barebones, just match with people and play. You can't switch characters or stages with that person unless you go into a player match, load times are awful, etc. Really hoping the team focuses hard on the online play for Tekken 8.
the worst of it is load times between games, even vs the same opponent using same character on the same stage. it still has to do the whole GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE and load it all up. its a problem when "instant rematch" still takes like 30 seconds minimum
@@soulfire67 30 seconds? I wish
@@soulfire67 PC happens within seconds if the other guy also has decent PC specs.
But good luck with PS4 lol.
Tekken 8 must run on about 120 fps for the online to be good .
Hate the load times but thank god you can't change characters. I don't want to sit there while your sweaty ass takes 30 seconds to pick a new character and loadout because you're taking this random ranked set super seriously. Take that shit to the lobbies.
rollback and crossplay should be in every fighting game on launch. Atleast for the ones coming out now.
Fully agree
Fully agree, but the online is still garbage if the matchmaking is ass. Which is what this video is about.
Issue with crossplay is platform owners. I don't remember really about which game it was, but I remember the issue was that SONY required you to calculate and pay them whatever sales a crossplay option would cost them (since players outside of playstation didn't have to buy games on their store to play with playstation players). Something like that at least.
Except Sony is a tight ass with the idea of their playerbase connecting to the competitor's consoles.
Ye, if power rangers could do it, everyone can!
I love this fire the FGC has for the health of our games. We are getting better netcode after being vocal about it for a while and now with matchmaking, we are showing companies what's important for not only our enjoyment, but for the enjoyment of casuals who could be turned into regulars of those games with better matchmaking AND netcode!
Yeah, it's very frustrating to wait a lot for matches in almost all fighting games I play... Not only this, but some titles also has some extra bullshit like broken ugly lobbys, long ass loading screens, no indication of Wi-Fi players, no crossplay and no "Search for another match" option right after the end of another one! It's so exausting returning every time to training room/lobbys and watch lots of loading screens between matches online... You spend half of the time not playing the game.
Edit: I updated the list of extra bullshit that I could remember, I guess there's more. XD
EVERY game needs an option to lock out trash Wi-Fi players from being able to access your online game.....IF you cannot be bothered to run a cable from the modem to the console than that person has no business playing online....I had friends that used to do that until I explained to them why its trash to use Wi-Fi to play anything online.
@@lutherheggs451 Luther please shut the fuck up you drama queen. You don't need a whole ass cable to play online. Just say you don't want people with ass connection joining your lobbies. Also I bet your friends secretly despise you lmaoo
@@lutherheggs451 Cool, except some people really don't have an option. Whether it's due to financial struggles or just the layout of your home network, it's unfair to say that you MUST have an optimal setup.
Oh, and I feel the need to add, if we want more and more members of this community, we need to stop with elitist attitudes like this. It might suck to match with someone running the game on wifi in the middle of the Sahara desert on a pocket-sized satellite, but they're likely just as passionate as anyone if they still play with that kind of obstruction.
The only reason I dont boot up KoF as much is the match making in Ranked. I loved the game and learning it, but much like other fighting games, half of the time I'm not playing the game. It really is sad that for as much as fighting games are making progress, its still behind in basic online functions
I'm one of these people. My bestest friend in the whole wide world bought this game for me as a gift, knowing I was hyped as hell, and we've yet to play a single game together because he lives in another state.
Thank you, SNK.
That hurts to read. I'm sorry to hear that.
what? just create a lobby
Matchmaking is broken but if you know someone IRL then just make a lobby for each other
@@danielqv literally nothing works. I can see everyone, and I can't connect to anyone.
@@TheChilaxicle not even lobbies work.
thanks for discussing all this topics, it's more than just we need rollback
I'm glad you did mention Pokken because yeah, the speed you could get matches in that game was nuts. Interestingly, I'd say ARMS and the recently released Switch Sports also have shockingly good matchmaking. Yeah, of all companies to get matchmaking right, it's oddly Nintendo? Switch Sports isn't quite as good as the other two (oh egad I wish I could search for the next match in Chambara within the Chambara screen) but the netcode is oddly solid. I've been fighting people in China and it has been working (looks like Chambara slows down your attack animations to compensate for lag, the kind of thing that ONLY functions for that specific game).
And yeah that's the entire point of Switch Sports. As you all saw, the offline experience is useless. Switch Sports is made ENTIRELY for the global ranked online play.
Agreed with GGS's current system. I'm stuck between floors 8 and 9, and sometimes there are literally nobody on those floors. Have to go to floor 10 and get my ass handed to me nonstop. Good practice, though.
That's honestly how I got better but yea they need to overhaul their matchmaking .
I don't mind getting my ass kicked, but if that's all that happens 24/7 it still kinda sucks. I honestly had the most fun fighting people within the same floor during the release as well as when Baiken was out. I want to rank, but I feel like I find more enjoyment in the parks instead.
Being in Celestial is rough when there’s nobody there too. Now I just look like I boosted and can’t handle the rank so I’m gatekeeping when in reality it’s just empty
Had the exact same expirience but between floor 7-8
Isnt it also weird that your floor is independent from your character? There's no way for me to play my 2nd character without dropping my floor ranking alltogether. I like Tekkens system when it comes to this.
thanks so much for covering this Max
Tell me how mmos, mobas, arena shooters, battle royales, etc can get much more complex online infrastructure working fine to great while most 1v1 fighting games still suck ass. How in the world is that possible
Don't make the same amount of money and Japan refuses to change
Very different infrastructure and requirements, on all those genres you'll use servers, there are more players in matches so the matchmaking can be less strict and you can pretty much ignore connection quality. This means that if you have a good server, everyones connection to that defines how well the game works for them. And generally someones bad connection means that only they have a bad experience.
Gross oversimplification, but matching different players over 1v1 peer to peer connections actually can involve a lot more variables and it is much easier to notice bad netcode and matchmaking in this environment than other genres. Though they still should be better than they are...
It did make me happy that you mentioned Pokken. Underated gem when it comes to the competitive scene.
Can confirm the guilty gear thing. Bought the game a while back hesitated to play online tried going online a couple of months ago and could never find an opponents at my very noob level.
how? ggs is my 1st fg and I got placed
on 6th floor and then instantly went to 8th. how can you have problems finding opponents
@@АртёмТор-к2ю Not everyone is at the same starting point regardless of being someone's first fg.
pokken to me is a phenomenal game online-wise. I brought it around 1-2 years after it came out on switch, and even then, still got online matches every 10-20 seconds. not to mention it was practically lag-free, AND on the switch. that game is magical.
Pokken's matchmaking still keeps this speed up to this day, even with its relatively low number of online players. The downside is we've reached a point where your rank basically doesn't even matter because the game is just trying to get you into a match as soon as possible with a limited player pool.
Also, all this talk of Pokken is reminding me, I'd love to see a Rate the Super on Pokken DX's Burst Attacks! I love how over the top some of them are, like Croagunk's funny shadow clone super and Blastoise's mountain-destroying laser.
Blastoise is a straight 10/10 with how cinematic it is. the slowmo, he particle effects, mountains shaking with debris flying. Good shit.
@@RenShinomiya121 The dude has to anchor himself with a pair of ice beams because of how powerful the blast is, I love it.
update 06/04/2022: is kof xv's matchmaking still broken? yes.
ARMS is also really good about getting you into fights quickly, although they aren’t as worried about skill level outside of Ranked.
I feel like someone is going to make a Twitter account around this and I love it.
So basically what matters is not only the gameplay itself, but all the usual online functionalities of ALL kinds matter too. I would love to see more games trying to be ONLINE fighting games, not merely fighting games with online mode. Imagine if your typical moba, team shooter or battle royale were missing any of features like proper matchmaking and playable netcode. Nobody would even bother. Fighting games do that thing, then die in a couple of weeks, months if they are lucky, and people are surprised what happened, instead of just realising, that FGs have terrible online services incapable of just sustaining regular gameplay in general.
Take a look on games like Brawlhalla. You can think whatever you want about how it looks, feels and plays as a game, but what matters it's that it's free, has a playable netcode, actual ranked mode matchmaching with reasonable ELO-like system, and crossplay to every device you can come up with, including freaking mobile. And that's how it's bigger than the next 5 biggest fighters lumped together on steamcharts only, and THEN you have all the crossplay platforms on top of that.
A Fighting Game without functioning matchmaking is like a car without wheels. It may be the best and fastest car with the best user experience of all time, but without wheels it's not going anywere. I don't want KOFXV to just die cause SNK left it without its damn wheels, the game is too good to die in such a stupid way. Also, I could've sworn I was the only one having trouble with matchmaking and thought it was something with my PC, but knowing it was just SNK fucking up the game this hard doesn't make me all that much happier. Am glad my PC's not problem tho lol
We need the online features to function. I can't travel to offline events as much as I want to just to play fighting games with my friends or with the FGC. Thanks for shining light on this issue.
These kinds of videos are always very enjoyable to watch. And Im left thinking about how similar fighting games and shooters are even though they're completely different genres. Look at Halo Infinite's Matchmaking for example, after every match you have to go search for another game instead of being put into another one right away.
I just wish for a simple MMR system like Starcraft 2 has had for a decade now, no lobbies or at least not the default, only a button "ranked" vs "unranked".
And I'd wish games would just allow me to hide empty lobbies. It's so annoying to scroll thorugh multiple lists, checking for lobbies in every region (just to find that one or two players to play with in older or dead titles). I mean, what's the point of having 10+ lobbies per region when you barely get enough people for 3 lobbies at once (this is example from DBFZ)?
I just picked this game up and yeah I thought something was up with the online.. thanks for clarifying. Hopefully spring of 2023 when they implement crossplay into this game. All this bullshit will be fixed.. sticking with it! Great game!
Not sure if is a thing. But in KOF XV if I search for "same region" founds matches faster than "any region". Don't know if the matchmaking is that broken that when you select any region it just look for people that also selected any region instead of everyone 😅 but it works for me.
Ps. I live in Ireland and playing on PC
To be fair, as somewhat amateurish programmer, I can see how someone could make such a stupid mistake coding it in. "Everyone" is a tiny bit more to code than just another category named "any". It's possible, but that just speaks about how little shit SNK gives about online if they allow such crucial element of the game to be developed by total noob coders.
I think part of the problem with online fighting games is how important frames are (or at least higher level makes them). In almost every other genre people can usually play with some lag and be okay, or maybe not even notice. But in fighting games, even that .1 second delay can make that safe move unsafe and cost you the match.
FG executives should start to realize that a lot of games owe a huge part of their success to good user experience and accessibility. Granted the game needs to be also good, but that's usually not the issue with most modern fgs
Guilty Gear Strive is still pretty great if you're already on floor 10, just put in standby on training mode and you don't have to deal with the lobby and get matches pretty frequently, but being a lower level player absolutely must feel like hell, they're pretty much forced to go to floor 10 even though they're at floor 6 and will most likely get demolished up there.
Even then, sometimes it just kicks you out and puts you to the lobby anyway. It's really inconsistent.
It’s crazy to me that guilty gear +R has the most simple style of matchmaking, just a quick match lobby and opt-in/out of ranked is easy to play with people, but the double edge sword is that you have no idea if you are fighting a god or a newbie. But matches are fast sets of 2/3 games and you go back to the quick match lobby and fights another quickly as long as ppl are there. You can also play survival, MOM, and training mode while in that lobby to wait for matches. I haven’t had such a quick experience in any other fighter for getting matches going.
Wasn't even aware that there was a problem with the KOF matchmaking, I just thought nobody was playing, glad I was wrong haha
This is the reason I'm focusing my KOF XV videos on mods right now. It started as a curiosity and I ended up covering every good mod that gets released. If the matchmaking is broken, then let's enjoy offline in some way.
It's really sad tho...
I'm glad you talked about this. Guilty gear had me hooked for the first 2 weeks, but then the loading times for getting into menus and the time it took to even get into a single match made me lose my patience. Dbfz also did this to me and caused me to stop playing way early. A cool lobby system is nice and all, but i still can't understand in this day and age why it takes 3 minutes to load basic stuff in fighting games.
That's so funny that you brought up Pokken. I clicked on the first video from searching "Maximilian Dood Pokken Tournament" and within the first 30 seconds you were praising the matchmaking lol.
You know what crazy, i got on today thinking I wasn't going to be able to play any ranked matches for KOFXV and I got three. But what I did differently is I went to the training room and for some reason matches came quickly for me. I don't know if it like that for any other fighting game but that was my experience today.
The training room thing is placebo, but if it works, good for you. I've sat in there for nearly an hour before I realised, "oh yeah, I'm actually looking for a match..." otherwise, I set my region to all and connection level to 3, yet I only get 200+ pings a few times before nothing else....
The training room method works for me too but I hope they fix it.
I was a new player in KOF XV and I thought for sure my lower level was an issue to not getting a match of my skill level. It's assuring to hear it's a general issue but it's also very discouraging for me to actually put in the time to learn the game when the only way I can get a match is players exponentially higher than my skill level leaving me completely unable to practice or learn any mechanics. I imagine there's people who didn't miss the refund window like I did so I've been left with basically no pool at my level to advance.
Unfortunately I’m in the same position as you. Hopefully matchmaking gets fixed and EVO brings in new players so we can all grow and improve together. No fun playing against people so much better.
Tbh I would refund the game and just move on if I could though
Almost the entire genre is like this with Tekken 7 and DBFZ having bad matchmaking as well. The problem is these publishers are refusing to update their extremely outdated matchmaking, even though we’re in the PS5and Xbox Series X generation of consoles. Until they realize the importance of updating their matchmaking, then they’ll start to lose players and money.
@@wolfensteinabsolutely8715 after the Goenitz update made the game unplayable for Xbox players I uninstalled and downloaded SF6. After playing KOF15 for four months I understand why this game lost to Multiverses in 2022 for fighting game of the year.
Apparently the way to get around the matchmaking in KOF is to *go to Training mode while waiting for a match?* I've seen people discuss this online.
It seems to get you opponents far faster than standard matchmaking.
Yeah, it weirdly seems to? Anecdotally, at my scrubby Rank of 9, I get matched up against ranks 5-10 (out of 30), and on a saturday evening, I couldn't get one match in 30 minutes while waiting in the main Ranked menu, but yesterday, waiting in training mode, I got one in like 2 minutes, which isn't great, but kind of understandable at beginner ranks over 2 months post-launch.
It wouldn't surprise me if KoF15's code was so jank that it could screw up regular ranked matchmaking while training standby works mostly as intended.
It's inconsistent, sometimes it works, but sometimes it's back to 30 minutes
How about they fix the damn game
This why I stopped playing KOF I can never find anyone online I got tired of waiting 20 plus minutes
What he said about ggst is so true.
I got it cuz i wanted to get good at fighting games and i was actually doing it, i get to floor 7 of the tower and it wuold take 30 minutes or more to find matches. Eventually i got to floor 8 but it wuold take way too long to play. At the end i didnt get good cuz i lost all motivations to play so i could never be able to understand how to play in actual matches and not in training.
If you want to see that "Woolie Interview" look for:
How to Save Fighting Games - Castle Super Beast Animated
Downtime is the bane of all multiplayer centric experiences. One of the reasons I've actually recently fallen in love with Apex is you get into a game and you lose the drop fight and you're right back to main menu, you click search game and BAM are right back into a lobby in moments. Similarly it's why Escape from Tarkov boils my blood, sometimes. ESPECIALLY if you're playing with friends. Not only do you have to spend time re-gearing you're whole ass character, which can take a good minute if if you're trying to run certain things, but you also have to sit and wait for like 20-30 minutes, like if you die right off the rip to anything, while you're team does the thing they were there to do and survive; or they have to spend their time not playing the game by running as fast as possible to the nearest extract so they can get you back in. On top of all that, the matchmaking can several minutes after all of this prep to get you back into playing the game.
the game that made me realize how crazy this was was brawlhalla lmao, you play instantly and now you rematch instantly, you find new matches instantly, going from that to tekken is fuckin insane
I recently haven't been able to play matches in Guilty Gear Strive, so I deleted it. No other game of mine is having online problems right now, but in Strive I can't ever connect to a duel station or connect to matches in most lobbies. I really wish we had better functioning online in fighting games!
Guilty gear strive is so sad. I just want to hit quick match from the main menu and get paired with someone close to my level or join a simple lobby where winner stays and the rest spectate until your turn. What's so hard about that? What's funny is they had a much better system in dragonball fighterz and went backwards. The main issue with that game was trying to play against your friends. Just let me invite them easily no fancy bs.
I think ArcSys sometimes refuses to accept that Arcade days are over(at least outside of japan, dunno how's over there) and they try to recreate it in their games with this lobby system. GG Xrd has this, Strive has this and DNF Duel had this in the beta too. But online is not arcade, there are much better solutions
@@Mene0 The arcade scene is floundering everywhere even in Japan there is no more excuses its just devs being subborn.
The "of your skill level" is a part that isn't emphasized enough. Some games have great rollback and can run smooth across entire continents if not the world but are happy to pair some one who just bought the game against literal pros. Looking at you NRS.
As aKOF beginner...no one else is. Doesn't really work for ranked
Patiently waiting for Max's reaction on the new Street Fighter skins in Brawlhalla.
I play KOF XV on latin america and I rarely wait more than 2 mins for a fight.
Tekken 7 matchmaking is being terrible for me. Not only it takes so much time to get into a match, but i mostly fighting the same guys over and over again.
When you put out on multiple platforms. Crossplay is essential!
It feels like the online of a lot of fighting games are designed by people who don't play online a ton or don't play other games from other genres a ton. Its like how arcsys always tries to emulate an arcade with their lobbies when the novelty of that wears off real quick if just want to get into a game. Like if the guy who made that played CoD or saw what TFH did we would at least have an option for a menu lobby
What a struggle to get matches in KOF XV, fortunately I hope that when South Town gets released, Matchmaking won't be broken anymore
Thats it. Fighting games are truly about the competition, about self improvement and about overcoming the challenge.
15 years ago in 2007 I was studying abroad in South Korea. I had a huge crew of friends from all over the world. Internationals but also native Koreans, one big family. One of those good friends was from the US. He was older and more mature as teenage me and became something like a bigger brother to me. Someone could absolutely trust, get advise from and just have a good time with. We partied, we chilled and hung with our big crew of international and Korean friends every weekend until the break of dawn. Lots of hangovers and crazy stories. But one day we found an arcade. Since its Korea they got a huge arcade scene even still in 2007. They had a classic Street Fighter 2 Turbo machine. He suggested we get some coins and play. He asked me if I know how to play? I grew up on SF2 in the 90s and was confident, even cocky and told him its on.
We both sat down, put in our coins and pressed our start buttons simultaneously.
And was in for a rude awakening.
He was a god. He was incredible with Ryu. I jump, perfectly timed anti air dp. I try to open him up, flawless footsies and not dropping a single combo. Consistent fireball pressure and dp in my face if I jump over.
He didnt know how to play 3rd Strike and SF4 wasnt even released yet. He was an OG who was older than me. And I grew up in the 90s which meant he grew up during the golden arcade age in the US. He only knew how to play SF2 but was unparalleled in it.
It was 2007 so just before SF4 came out and rebooted the age fighting games and completely resurrected the FGC. Funny how we were both two guys playing an old game in a Korean arcade to remember old times when we were just a year away from the biggest revival of fighting games and video games becoming total mainstream in general. Anyways, he was a beast. I couldnt take a single round of him. Got perfected half of the time. And had to get lucky to touch him. And I was a guy that knew fighting games growing up on SF2,3 Tekken3,4, Soul Calibur, Smash and many others. I was one of the best from where Im from. But compared to him I was a scrub. He beat me hundreds of times. I was stubborn. I was determined. I was passionate. I would not give up. would challenge him throughout a whole year over and over, it became a ritual and both of our thing. Every weekend we would hit up the arcade. Sometimes during the week when I run into him. I dont know how many coins I threw in that machine.
“Another one” “Ah! This time I got you!”
“One more time!” “This time I figured you out!” “Damn it!”
He’d beat me consistently. And I mean kicking my ass in all ways, shapes and forms.
Most of the weekends we would hang with our big international family of friends at our regular bars getting drunk and partying. Some nights him and me met some Korean cuties and sat down with them to drink, just having a good time.
But I shit you not then the challenge called me and I’d tell my bro “its time”. And we ditch the girls and would head to the arcade to play some STREET FIGHTER II! Trust me, many guys thought we were crazy. They saw me and my bro meeting some beautiful Korean girls who looked like idols. The girls were into us too. But no, the challenge has called. He loved my persistence and wanted to keep his titles as undefeated. So he didnt throw me any bones. Instead of being a dick and saying he wont play anymore because he is scared to get that one loss someday he accepted the challenge every time. One, whole, year. Day after day.
And me? I was just completely consumed with the desire to beat him. To get better at this game. To overcome this challenge. Get better. It was also a mirror Ryu vs Ryu. Then after 6 month or so I managed to take a round. My heart was pounding when I saw his life bar at just a pixel, every movement with surgical execution, observing his Ryu and see exactly what he is doing. I couldnt seal the deal and choked on the final round. Despair.
I never forget the moment after almost a year when I finally beat him. I didnt realize how I got better. Imagine playing the same better player for months. I studied all his style, his small nuances in his decision making progress, his habits, his signature combos and moves.
When I finally took two rounds from him I jumped across the arcade, stood on top of the stools and threw my fists in the air and screamed. Then I fell to the floor and rolled around like a lunatic. My bro whipped out his old phone (this was before smartphones) and filmed it all.
I felt like I achieved something incredible something seemingly impossible to overcome. My bro and his unfathomable skill at this game he mastered for decades, being able to beat this even just once felt like besting a towering giant with sheer will power.
What I realized years later is that I was basically labbing. Every time I player and I lost I learned something new. It made me better, gave me thick skin, developed my sense, my reaction, my execution. I learned the most important lesson for fighting games and frankly any sport or competition in life. You only get better if you lose. And if you keep losing you get better. As they say, the difference of a winner and a loser is the winner got back up on his feet one more time.
We both went back home to our home countries. I ended up returning to Korea after studies for work because I fell in love with the country. He went back to the US to work. He probably got married, settled down and never played SF2 again. Its been about 15 years since we hung out. My life is very different. Im not the teenage boy I was back then and but in my 30s now. Older than the age my big bro was when we met. Living my life. But Im still play fighting games in my free time. And Im happy how gaming has become the norm now, not the unusual. Its completely mainstream now and fighting games go through another renaissance as we speak.
This was a lengthy anecdote about my fighting game experiences.
But I wanna say I totally agree with you.
This same mentality of never giving up. It makes winners. When I play online fighting games now I have the same mentality. I make friends with players online and if they are better Im excited to try to beat them. Push myself. See how far I can go. This is how I become a better player and winning against someone finally after becoming better is one of the most rewarding experiences ever.
Fight on, brotha.
I mean I know my internet isn’t great but I literally get constant errors and when I do get a match it’s the same guy every time lmao it’s frustrating and makes me not wanna play online which sucks cuz I love the game which obviously everyone does so I hope they fix this
Long post but... Sys Engineer with some thoughts...
The more I think about this stuff, the more it feels like game devs really need to start diversifying their base with people from other areas of IT and software development. Maybe I'm off-base, not sure, but this has been going on for so long it's hard to imagine a mainline solution presenting itself unless they bring in more diverse technical talent. I know things always seem easier from a distance, but this is a fairly easy system to break down from a service delivery perspective. Technically complex? Sure, you need the code and design to back up the individual pieces, but just beyond that layer there should be a clear plan to really make it all cohesive. Hard to imagine it's a question of having the capital to make that possible... but it would really suck if that's the case.
The fact that these people make video games professionally (fighting or otherwise) is not lost on me. I'm not a game dev. Maybe that's the point tho? Don't have to argue it much either, just look around. The biggest names in fighting games mess this up so consistently it has become the expectation. That's not how you do business.
Would love to be a fly on the wall in some of their meetings (no company in particular) just to see how they manage projects, teams and really craft those ideas then execute on them.
while he was saying all these things all I could think about was brawlhalla. Rollback netcode, crossplay, free, fast matchmaking, and ranked (at least for me) only people on my level. Overall it's a great online experience in my opinion.
It’s just always been an oddity to me that a game like Halo can connect 30 people seamlessly, but a fighting game struggles to keep me connected with one other person.
One of the biggest reasons why I stopped playing KoF15 was yeah, I can't find anybody with the match making and if I did, it was against someone that felt like a pro level player who I had no chance against. Eventually I just got tired of waiting forever to find games and losing repeatedly without ever feeling like I was getting better.
Thank god max is talking about it, maybe now snk will do something.
They better drop it with Team Southtown.
I literally had no idea that's been happening. I've totally been getting matches. This is actually the first I've heard of this.
Honestly. I WANT to play Guilty Gear Strive, I really do, but the way the lobbies work, man. I don't want to deal with it. Takes way too long and it feels like 50% of the time, I'm not PLAYING the game, I'm playing the lobby. I just want to play the game, and I can't. Its frustrating. I'm very hopeful Project L will have good matchmaking because it is Riot Games and they know what they're doing when it comes to that (as we know from their other titles), so it'll probably be my main fighting game when it comes out.
Another thing every fighting game needs is infinite rematches or a mode where you can infinitely rematch people. A part of why sfv is so unsatisfying to play for me is because I can only play someone once and it's done. I never get the chance to learn anything or adapt or see my opponent adapt to me.
Agreed Tekken 7 has infinite rematch and honestly it does help. Not only helps you get better but also kinda alleviate the wait time.
Man! I'm not big on Fighting games, but I have been on MVC A1up, and a Stable is the ability to actually get in to a First to 10 series of matches or more.
So far the most I have had the energy to ay have been 35 straight games.... I won Non not them. LOL!!!
But I had a fucking BLAST!
Yea it's called make a room
@@ken7007 nobody is gonna join your room 9 times out of 10. People are more willing to just infinitely rematch than join a room.
I've had some luck getting people to join a room after but not always and when it does happen it's usually when they lose, and as soon as they get a w they leave
It's fairly straightforward just find me a match with somebody who's the closest to me and skill and location and then after a small amount of time if no matches are found expand the search to include people who are further away or who are of a greater or lesser skill. We don't need f****** rooms or floors or all this weird s*** just let me hit play and find somebody to play.
During pandemic, actual arcades were all empty due to lockdowns. I have never been to an arcade before (there aren't any anywhere near I live) but I'm prettty sure they look just like the arcade-cabinet filled lobbies of GBFV or GG Xrd.
Your enthusiasm for fighters is great!
I know that Max says online in SCV was crap but I've had a blast there and don't really remember any shitty connection issues, at least here in Europe. But the matchmaking? Godlike. You could've looked for a new opponent right after your fight ended and were usually paired before the win animation stopped playing.
Matchranking is the fighting games' most important problem need to solve.Hope they fix it soon.
As a new KOF 15 player, I’ve effectively dropped the game because of the matchmaking. Working a 9 to 5, the last thing I want to spend an hour or two doing is trying to find maybe 2 or 3 matches where I’ll probably get blown up, and then call it a night. No one has the patience for that lol.
At this point it's not even worth playing anymore. Happy to see its not just me. People will call you a scrub and tell you to git gud but completely omit that there is something wrong with KOF XV
I just happen to notice something in fighting games, mainly because fighting games are the only P2P ("Peer to Peer") connection games that still exists today:
I recently moved my computer (where I play) behind a network switch for house layout reasons, after that change it was crazy hard to get any fight online in fighting (KOFXV included) and then it clicked into me, this is like the old times when you played online, you'd give your IP to your friend and he couldn't connect to you (INCOMING connection) because you needed to port forward and do some network stuff in your router, but you could connect to him (OUTGOING connection) and start a game... So this happens only if you connect directly ("Peer to Peer" like most fighting games) and doesn't have a intermediary server doing the connection and handling the initial "network negotiation" between the players, like almost all other games that are not fighting games.
That "network negotiation" that the servers and the matchmaking needs to make is nothing short of cheap, and it makes sense that is not a focus in fighting games unless you have a VERY strong monetization strategy (Street Fighter 5 anyone?)
Guilty Gear Strive masks this issue with the lobby system (that's why you randomly can't connect to someone sometimes), if it where ONLY matchmaking it probably would be a long wait too, good that it has a lot of players.
Project L (the riot game) has a strong focus on using servers, that means (and I hope) that it would have a strong and quick matchmaking thanks to that.
Welp that's my guess at least, have fun and thanks for reading my long comment!
Incidentally, have you tried forwarding the ports? I recently did it for fightcade and now i have no more black screens
Such an underrated topic that realy needs attention by the devs, especialy on smaller contries/playerbases
I don’t have any issues with matchmaking at all. Just run into some of the same people. Just some.
This is true, i get people in USFIV (bought it on a sale) surprisingly fast, never thought i would enjoy a delay netcode title in 2022.
We also need WiFi filters! At the VERY LEAST WiFi indicators!
Hey Max, it is still broken and despite all the information that we gave to SNK they did nothing. i feel cheated and gonna demand refund from them because this is not what they promised. Please make a video, podcast or something about it.
Strive lobbies also have an issue finding matches due to lack of character select. People can just refuse to play against you because they have a bad match up against your character or just don't want to play against them making finding games more annoying
It actually helped me seek specific match-ups whenever I tried testing something.
Found the Axl player.,
I've lost count for how many times people have ignored my play request. May player here...
Fighter z is one of those games that would be perfect with better online but the lag holds it back so much!
I'm not a fighting game guy, but I love listening to this man. Yet I need someone to explain EVERYTHING to me
I don't want people to leave kof due to SNK not resolving the matchmaking issue. I believe that when they last dlc announcements (team southtown) is released, they'll finally start working on the matchmaking problems. Fingers cross for 2 things:
-They start fixing the problem
-If it's fixed by that time period, the game's not dead/players leave forever cause it took so long.
If that matchmaking isn’t fixed by the release of Team Southtown the game is dead tbh. People aren’t going to accept no matchmaking 3 months after launch.
I have stopped playing because I’m level 17 and can’t find a match for like a hour on pc and ps5
Last 3 sessions, no games. Love it, makes me learn, think, best fighting game ive played in a long time. But i cant actually play it
I remember when Tekken 7 first came out, there were times when I could enter a lobby, but I couldn't play anyone. I couldn't even leave the game, the lobby maker actually had to kick me out so I could leave.
I'll chime in and say we could probably look to Smash Ultimate as well. As much as people in the FGC hate Smash, it's matchmaking, years later, is still very, very fast, and I play in the top percent of the entire online playerbase (according to GSP).
I am not a fan of Ultimate's ranking system, considering it's both inaccurate and forced upon you no matter how you want to play, fact of the matter, I'll still spend hours playing matches and seconds waiting for them.
The match making in smash is ass
@@ken7007 No, the netcode in Smash is ass. The matchmaking is superb. I've lived in multiple different locations and in every location it only takes 10s or less to actually get into a match, with a more limited pool of people.
@@CrimsoniteSP lmao superb that shit don't function right i don't care how fast i get a match "when people are on" if i'm getting put with someone that have 1 minute time with FSM on trying to camp while i have "Prefer rules on" it functions like ass even after so many patches trying to fix that broken shit. Smash4 on the Wii U worked way better at least i got exactly what I selected & doing quick play team's basically non-existent shit will start with just 2 people unlike the Wii U. Smash ultimate tried to please everyone with the online ended up pleasing no one
@@ken7007 Yeah, yeah that happens from time to time. To be fair, if you block the person you can't match with them and camping isn't a fault of the systems at play.
@@CrimsoniteSP that's the thing a lot of people have goofy settings to a point where you should just go to arenas the block list has a limit it's just bad never had this problem in smash4 it is the fault of the system when i didn't ask for it in the first place stop trying to defend it
KOF has to be the most frustrating experience as a beginner. The tutorials are, like most fight games, pathetic. They never really tell you how to deal with situations, just what the buttons do. The mission mode makes no sense: do they really think beginers are going to benefit from them? Do beginners really need to learn combos over fundamentals?
But the matchmaking is a mess. Upwards of thirty minutes waiting to be matched with someone who turns out to be beyond my skill level to the point the experience is just soul destroying. I don't expect to win, but at least match me against someone reasonably close to me in _ranked_!
Someone who is 0-30 is not the equal of someone that's been playing for months possibly years but has the same w/l percentage.
Honestly it's about time fight game developers, and the communities they pander to, stepped outside their bubbles, took a look around and saw what actually works. Unlike this game's netcode. it's rolled back to the point no one can be found
This 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Is why I dropped the game
Poor tutorial that doesn't teach how to improve and get better at the game; only teaches how to play only someone who has been playing for 20 years would know Yamakazi and Chiziru can counter zone but I nothing in the game tells us that. Fuck KOF
Killer Instinct 2013 puts this game to shame
Me and my friend are fiending to play kofxv but are holding off till it's matchmaking is fixed
This also happened to samurai showdown. I was unable to really play the game.
Ranked vs in mk11 still a damn clownshow. Cant decline wifiplayers after all these years
Calling it ranked when it resets every few weeks is also a complete joke. If I play everyday I can get skillbased matchmaking one out of every five weeks.
I legitimately wish I'd never bought KOF XV on Steam day one. I spent all that time in the lab trying to learn the mechanics and fundamentals since I'd never given KOF it's fair shake in the past. Then I tried hopping online afterward, only to be met with almost no lobbies and those that I did find had subpar rollback imo. At this point I'm gonna go back to Strive or Tekken 7 while I wait for SFVI. Pretty sure I'm not buying another SnK fighter after this.
That was exactly my experience as well. I really wanted to get into this game. But SNK didn't allow me. The constant DLC releases feel like a big middle finger when you can't even play the game.
@@molle1466 they got all these dope ass characters and mechanics but no one to try them out on
Same here
Man I hope Kof XV gets it's matchmaking fixed cause it is seriously broken and imo it will not help the players who actually want to play the game online.
Holy sh*t this was published a year ago! And it’s still a problem!!
Uninstall the game or do not buy
I've pretty much given up searching for a fighting game I enjoy the game play of in favour of looking for one that isn't miserable to play online and it's a real struggle.
Every time we get a conversation from Uncle Max about some issues that are pervasive in fighting games, all I can think is that Riot’s Project L is gonna force every other developer to wake the fuck up.
What if they're watching Max's videos and taking serious notes.
lol keep dreaming
That's a rather huge assumption. Wait til it's here, then we'll see what they do better if they do better.
Wait times are the main thing that kept me from really getting into Tekken 7. Like, searching for an opponent is one thing--I understand that finding a match takes time depending on region, connection, skill level, etc.--but there's so much unnecessary waiting before and after that. There are so many menus and loading screens and intro animations and victory animations and rematch timers... Just let me play the game!
Intro and victory animations are normal for any fighting game. The menus and rematch waiting time and loading menu is the problem. No excuse for a game in this gen to be taking that long
Games like Soulcalibur VI let you skip them, though. I would pay to be able to do that in Tekken and never have to sit through Negan’s stupid win quotes ever again.
another thing i think contributes to the terrible feel of the FGC matchmaking for some people is that fighting games are so unpopular that you can straight up not have ANYONE to fight depending on where you live. i have dropped 4 fighting games so far because i literally could not play them online no matter how much i tried
Which games did you drop? Indie titles or games like DOA and soul call?
@@franks0n0 i dropped Under night in-birth, Samurai showdown, Granblue Fantasy and Melty blood type Lumina. All considered famous fighting games
@@arthuralbuquerque8824 oh boy. No wonder you drop those games lmao
I feel like all of those are pretty niche in the community.
@@arthuralbuquerque8824 i feel like that has less to do with the matchmaking and more so cause you got on games that 4 people play.
But you know damn well if they have a store to buy cosmetic stuff it'll work perfectly out the gate. Game company priorities
Because of this many people get the idea that KOF is losing players because nobody plays it or whatever.
When in fact it's because we CAN'T play it.
It's called make a room
I mean, it is losing players. Only the most die-hard will struggle with this stuff. All the rest of the people have moved and SNK has to do something magical to ever get them back.
I already sold my KOF XV, not fun playing vs the same dude all the time
yeah fighting games really continue to be strange where it can thrive in one part of online but fk up another. it surprises me like another comment says where we have games like fortnite and apex that have large number of players but fighting games still struggle i mean overwatch and and call of duty games have had 8 to 12 player matches and it runs fine the whole time.
i'm playing kof15, sf5, doa6 and mk11 all online atm i have gripes with all of them except doa6 funny enough and i tend to enjoy more because of it.
Wait, DoA6 has good online?
Rollback, wifi filter, skillbased matchmaking?
When will fighting game devs realize that the reason their games don’t sell is because the product itself is shitty and not because the game’s not oversimplified enough?
Took me 1 hour to find a single match. I turned it off after cause it takes too long
The thing that aggravates me the most about Kof 15 is definitely getting the same person to fight against and not knowing it until it's too late to decline the match. Why can't they just display the person's name in the 'match found' box?