There is a scene in the Cape May episode that kind of gives it away, but you have to watch it again with the Redarina theory in mind. The scene is a conversation over dinner, Katarina says, "You tell me, tell yourself." then later Katarina says "you've been here before." and Red replies, 'Once, a very long time ago, I was a different person then, you." it's all hidden in the context, but watch it again and it's suddenly a clue. And then the conversation at the beach at the end takes it to the next level, prety much giving it away.
Once he lectured some goon about loyalty and talked aboveut a job he had as a teenager and how his Dad made him finish the job and the boss gave him a $40 bonus..... . I would think that back then it was mostly a boy who would do such work, not a girl
In season 1 there are tons of evidences against the redarina theory ....he wanted to sleep like he did when he was a boy ...that is the words ....there are memories he speaks of and people share which is over 25 years ago ... supposedly older than the Lizzy's fire incident
I always use that to debunk that stu***ity..he was an American boy one day..he said that..that’s the normal thing and how this show intended..the writers are cleverly using the doubts some viewers have to make it more enigmatic
@@signorelucky3432 I want something other than "he's Katarina'---but despite these nuggets you and I discussed....shit, isn't there so much hint that he is her? Like when Lizzy died....shit, they all but said it. Then Constantine was about to kill him- Red whispers- Constantine looks at his eyes and leaves. It was either "Free hot dog if you let me go" or "I'm Katarina, you have a birth mark on your left nut". Then At Constantine's house -- Lizzy found that thing she and Katarina buried. I don't like the Kat-is-Red-theory. But dammit, so many hints to that effect. I still feel Ilya has some key to this. I don't know what.
I believe they got a wind of that guess early on and started misleading people (the writers I mean) but what I believe is Red is Red and knowing the Russians maybe from his Mother's side or that his father was an operative there..not that he's her..he could've told him that she's alive and I can let her contact you.
@@MPDLR I don't get why pepole don't like it. It is the ultimate sarcfice a super spy like Kat could make. It makes her literally the best spy in the world. Beside that it is such a clever story.
Empty voices I know it!!! I just don't want him to go away!! I bet they could keep it going for another 10yrs.if they really wanted to.But,it is a great ending.
Yes…does it really even matter any more? There are so many scenes that precipitate a confusing and / or a veiled elusive argument both for or against. Not sure if the plot writing simply failed in so many ways - or was it intentional to present a number of weak decoys that leave one confused to the point of giving up on the whole thing. My question is more focused on how one could put up with a lot of mis-cast, poorly directed and weakly written actors - save for James Spader who in somewhat Shakespearean style singularly carried the whole series!
@@dawnkeener9836 Raymond had a family .. a daughter that was a ballerina .. he slept with multiple traditional women .. and he’d need a whole lot of supply of hormones - which he didn’t get in prison yet he raised a beard- add to that Red stated that Katarina commited su i cide .. plus DNA shows gender ..
Aside from the avalanche of evidences throughout the entire series that Red is in fact Katarina, there is a scene in which fake Katarina is interrogating Dom (Liz's grandfather). In that scene, he all but confesses that Red is Katarina. He essentially tells her that Reddington and Katarina, both have the Archive. And don't even get me started on the whole Townsend mess.
@@robertpreston2220 There are several scenes in episode 8x21 where Katarina is put in place of Reddington when he was having flash backs to things in the past. They are literally sharing the same memory/brain. It takes being familiar enough with the series to remember these scenes from previous episodes, but if you go back and compare these scenes it is irrefutable proof that the current Reddington was Katarina.
@@robertpreston2220 Yes because women have never been known to pass as men, particularly in a science fiction show. If your perception of his maleness is the only thing you have in response to the fact that the show has the two characters sharing the same memories you are just in denial for whatever reason. The ENTIRE premise of the show is based around the concept of questioning identity and part of that has been and is gender.
Red took the DNA test and was confirmed parent. He also tells Liz he doesn't lie but may stretch the truth. He said No I am not your father. That means he is Liz's mother. Also in the scene where his frind says there's nothing to make me change my mind... Red leans over and whispers... I am Katerina. If you turn it up really loud you can hear it.
I do not see how Red could be a woman or a trans man. His wife and daughter remember him and his ex- wife calls him Raymond. His marriage took place before all of the mess with Katarina. Also, he is definitely supposed to be Jennifer's father and there is no way a woman or trans man can father a child.
So, the real Redington was married to Naomi and the father of Jennifer. But the real Redington was shot by Liz and died when Jennifer was still a little girl. It wasn't until the real Redington died that Katarina became fake Red. This is why fake Red is completely devotes to Liz, but has little concern for Jennifer...Jenifer isn't fake Red's daughter. There are clues that Naomi (Redington's wife) recognized that fake Red was an imposter, but regardless it is well established that Red is an imposter no ifs, ands, or buts. So any question on if the plastic surgery was good enough to fool people is true no matter who Red was. The show establishes that the doctor that did the plastic surgery was the best, that science available to the underworld was more advanced, and that red was an imposter and no one questioned what he looked like. You are digging for justifications that run directly against what the show established and what the shows writers have confirmed since.
Like bro who else could Raymond be.... the Evidence is all right there..... Hes not the real raymond. He doesnt give two fucks about Jennifer, He has entire flashbacks about Katarina ALL the time. They have the same burns. He knows shit Only Katarina knew........
Watch the show again. Every single line Red say about Katarina, Liz, and the whole secret speaks loud and clear that he is Katarina. Watch the show again. The last two things happens in the last two episodes is Red telling Liz in the park when she asks him "Why cannot I know who you are now before i kill you?" He says "Because if you know, you'll never do it" Finally, Red is going thru the whole thing again with Dembe and what happens after he dies, so he asks Dembe "And my body?" Dembe answers "Don't worry. the city will never get your body" If the FBI gets Red's body, they'll know the extensive surgeries Red went through that ultimately changed his sex! What a show!
At the end of season 1, we see scars from a fire on "Red's" back. It could have been from any fire, but it is suggested he was present at the fire Liz was saved from after having shot the real Reddington. Besides Rostova, LIz and the readl Reddington, who could have been there? Why does Mr. Kaplan, in digging the real Reddington's skeleton say to herself: "forgive me Katarina" (or should we rather say Ekaterina?). We have seen "Red" ready to die for Liz, not hesitating to exchange his life for Liz's - would an uncle or a friend of Katarina go that far 25-30 years later? Why did "Red" save Alexander Kirk's life? Only self-interest? And Kirk accepted to leave voluntarily - what did they say to one another? At the end of season 8, "Red" is ready to die to let Liz read a letter, says "Red" written by Liz's mother. If Katarina is not "Red", that she wrote a letter when Liz was only a child to be read in some future to reveal the imposter appears quite improbable. But if "Red" is Katarina, a freshly written letter is still by Liz's mother. Katarina was condemned to death by the Cabal, the US secret services and the Soviet/Russian secret services. Being #1 criminal on the FBI list looks like a vacation compared to that situation. Liz could be used as a blackmail against Katarina in order to get Katarina - this is why revealing "Red"s" identity as Katarina could put Liz in danger. But if Katarina dies, and it is known with certainty, Liz is not under that threat anymore: hence the condition that Liz kills "Red" before reading the letter, and the affirmation that if the read the letter before, Liz would not be able to kill "Red". Those are a lot of elements in favour of the Redarina theory, and I probably forgot some others.
@@josefkilberger6930See the flashback at the end of season 8. It is pretty cleae red was Katarina. She dove in the fire to save her daughter, she has the photo of Liz and Katarina on the swing, which Btw is Katarina's favourite photo. When Liz asks it Reddington took the photo, he says no. Then liz asks, but you were there? Red says I was. And you knew my mother? Red says, Better than anyone. All this proves he Is Katarina. That is why when Fake Katarina emerges, Red is able to convincingly say that Katarina is dead. He built the whole blacklist for 30 years, why would anyone do that for a random kid? But a mother surely can. Lastly, Ilya cared a lot about Katarina in the past, why would he care about reddington so much in the present? Same goes for Dom. Why would he have such a good relation willing to die for a stranger? But it all makes sense if Red is Katarina.
Katarina's job was to literally to learn 'everything' about a target and get what she needed. She was a master of playing a part, and she knew Raymond better than her knew himself. And for me it's the little things, there have been many times when some of Reddingtons mannerisms were very feminine and jus some of his dialog with women seemed like it was too women chatting. Plus, they showed evidence that Katarina probably preferred to be with women.
Exactly! Every woman he been with will notice or he dated only women, who like trans people 😂Which is not something impossible, but again too over the top. The problem with that theory is it having too much "IF" in it.
This! If they had used a more feminine looking actor, I probably could have bought it, but James Spader is too thick and his feet too big to be that of a woman. Especially someone who was supposed to be gorgeous like Katarina. The big give away though is when Red gave Ressler a blood transfusion in season one. Can't give female blood to males.
That's what I thought aswell. We know in the real world that some females can pass a male with enough time but as soon as they take of their clothes you'll see the hips of a woman, scars from masectomy, the missing dick and the whole body itself
I have watched every single epiosde start to finish over 9 years and 4 epiosdes so far. There is no way in hell Red is katerina. REd is asctaully Red, he is liz's father. the idea he is katerina is the most stupidestt idiotic ridiculous thing ever.
@@toromontana8290 They said in the first episode they didn't have DNA to test against and a medical check wouldn't show anything. They would have to know what they were looking for.
@@bverjigetting his current dna would certainly deliver pretty concrete evidence that he is male or female. Ain't no plastic surgery that can change your dna
First off I am glad she is gone, she was a bad agent, bad profiler, and failed at most everything in the show. That being said, my thought is "she wouldn't kill him if she knew who he was" I can't think of anyone except her mom. Red admitted to erasing her memory and so did Katerina at the end of season 8. So they both did? Or same person?
What if Redarina was where the identity was supposed to land the whole time, but because of real world issues with left vs right wing they decided to muddle the picture and let the viewers come to their own conclusions. We see happening to Disney over this issue and who could have ever thought that mighty mighty Disney would be on the ropes. A little food for thought!
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It is very possible this is what was intended, and they chickened out of confirming it completely, letting the plot lay where it ended up at the end of season 8. It would make a lot of sense, to not attract the ire of either "side" of the culture wars. Plausible deniability goes a long way. You then let the people see what they want to see in it.
I can imagine with the size of Red being a woman. Everyone keeps forgetting what Mr. Kaplan unearthed to show Liz who refused the chance to see the corpse. I still this he’s a man. If not Bokencamp wrote a lot of crap….
Ahem. The "real" Raymond Reddington was supposedly a U.S. Naval Intelligence Officer. It was implied that he had a high level security clearance. That necessarily entails that they had his fingerprints, blood type, eye color, and medical records including dental records on file. Furthermore, it is quite likely that earlier in his career before he ended up doing whatever it was he was doing when he got involved with Katarina Rostova that he had given intelligence briefings that had been videotaped. Thus it is almost certain that they could have gotten his voice print if they put forth the effort to do so. I know of no way that somebody's fingerprints could be permanently altered to resemble somebody else's fingerprints. Also, regardless of the extent to which Katarina could potentially have been subjected to the latest and greatest plastic surgery that a billionaire could get their hands on, sorry trans idiots, she's still genetically female. Thus a decent analysis of her blood from a blood sample and/or possibly even a standard urinalysis would reveal that she's NOT a he and thus could NOT be Raymond Reddington. Sorry, given what I know of how the Navy tracks people (I'm a former mustang line officer, had a top secret clearance) coupled with having an M.A. in Physical Anthropology I simply don't see how somebody could pull off passing a "fake" Raymond Reddington as the genuine article if the FBI was willing and able to do a decent check up on the guy. It would be incredibly difficult to do at best if the imposter was a male who actually resembled Raymond Reddington. Fingerprints, voice prints and dental records would be the most obvious give aways. Possibly blood type as well. But no way a female however modified by plastic surgery could pull it off. And let us also consider how many blood relatives Raymond Reddington may have who could supply samples of genetic material to be compared against Raymond's. To say nothing of that being a blindingly obvious way to spot a female pretending to be Raymond. Nope, I am occasionally willing to suspend disbelief because it's a fun show and I like it. But I can't take it seriously because of plot holes that an aircraft carrier could sail through.
Red is most certainly not the real Red. It has been confirmed repeatedly that he is an imposter. So your argument about how hard it would be to be fake is obviously flawed because no matter who he is this would have been an issue. As for a DNA test that is not how DNA tests work, particularly not government tests. They don't give a long list of genetic characteristics. Unless there is a reason to particularly check for gender a DNA test would not indicate that. The DNA test checked for paternity Saying that a woman could never pass as a man given extensive plastic surgery is just nonsense. Men pass as women even without such surgeries. The show has already confirmed that such realistic gender surgery is possible in the Djinn episode. As for testing his DNA against blood relatives, first what blood relatives...the only one was his daughter that was in hiding. Second, someone would only do such a test if they actually thought he was an imposter. You come up with some ideas that would make sense on the surface, but your arguments largely assume that the characters know what the viewer knows which would cause the characters to actively attempt to disprove Red's identity. They have also indicated that Red's personal information such as photo's, DNA, fingerprints are not readily available from his past, that they are protected by the Navy.
@@princessoffire1107 The show is not fantasy or hardcore scifi. Yes, maybe there is some things like secrets technology, that is a little more advanced than the mainstream, but it is not like something centuries ahead from now. Let say, that Katatina had access to technology and medical treatment, that only 1-5% of human society have, only the richest and most powerful ones, still you can NOT change everything to make biological female to pass all tests as a biological male. With plastic surgery you can change the face, maybe the eyes( their color and irises), maybe you can change the whole teeth structure, maybe you can change the voice frequency. Maybe with very expensive and rare hormone treatment you can make the body of one woman, to look very male. You can use even HGH to change the muscle size and density, even more the size and density of organs and bones too( but the whole bone structure you can't not, but lets say, you can on theory). With special surgery you can change the height of the body( specific bone manipulation - its a real thing actually) Maybe you can change fingerprints, to mold them different( here i am not very sure, but again to accept something only very small part of human society can do). All that to that poin you can change. It is not scifi, it's something possible with today science and medicine. Also let say, she had access( how i said) to something very secret and rare, only the richest and most powerful could. Let say she did it for many years, to transform herself perfectly to look like 100% male. Mannerism and behavior also can be copied and learnt. About all that i could agree, BUT😂...one big " BUT...there is things, you can NOT change. Or at least the next centuries we could not. And that thing is a human genes. If we talking about embryos and not born child - maybe, actually the science say, it is possible or will be, but talking about fully grown adult human being😂 - IT IS MORE THAT 100% NOT POSSIBLE!!! No in the next centuries or even much, much more. One single DNA test will show, not only Red is impostor, but also actually HE is SHE, IF we accept he was Katarina. If i remember correctly, they did him a DNA test. So no way, after the test he( if he is she actually) to pass for a biological male. Only way to do it is, if he actually is a biological male, which will mean, that he is not Katarina. Thing about that you and all others believe in that crazy theory. Educate yourself. Also no way they to pass that, they did not do to him some tests. If you want to prove someone is imposter, there is so many tests and DNA test is one of them. No way to not do it, especially knowing the fact, that the real Red( who died) was ex navi and CIA agent. So they probably still have database about him - DNA markers, fingerprints, pictures of his eyes, dental records and more. So that's why the whole Katarina theory is stupid. And if they do it, it will be only to milk the fans even more, knowing how popular this theory is for some reason😮.
@@vencislavgynev8282 Not all scifi is far in the future. The premise of the show is about criminal science that mainstream world don't know exsist. As for DNA they would have to have DNA tests that actual test for gender. DNA tests don't just give a big list of characteristics. Also the DN test's from the show where done from the real Redington. As for DNA markers, blood samples, we know that the was not available to the FBI because in the first episode when speaking of identifying Red they did not mention doing a DNA test. This is further supported by the fact they had to acquire DNA from alternate source to test Red with. Also DNA databases didn't exist until decades after Red left the military. Eye pictures( eye scanning) not something that is generally taken particularly 40 years ago. Dental is easy enough to replicate and can change dramatically over 40 years. Finger print prosthetics and transplants already exist and would be well with in the realm of the heightened science of the Blacklist Universe
I don’t think the writers had the redarina theory in mind at the beginning but changed their mind half way through. Either way the show was good but I hope we do get a answer one day
No amount of plastic surgery, hormones and DNA alterations Katarina could have undergone in the early 90s add 4 inches(the difference between the two) and bone density. Let alone all those who would have to cover up this secret for him who wished to destroy him.
How also could Red have slept with all the women he has and none of them notice the surgeries he has had done (plus he is referred to as a ladies man in one episode).
When Liz asked Red about his real identity in season 8 last Eps when she agreed to kill him to take over , red Answer was "You will not kill me if i told you" - Who else would he be other than a "mother"? - other thing , Red deleted one file from the Surgery Doctor. who had that Surgery? But still many question like Mr.Kaplan
Only one comment? That makes me suspicious. Not really. I never bought into the whole sex-change-radical-plastic-surgery-to-look-like-the-"real"-Reddington thing. It was one of the show's more obvious red herrings. They dropped the entire business in an unexpected attack of mental health, I suppose. It was absurd--and it was proof that someone in the script chain had to be fired. Someone was.
Red could be an uncle, a hidden brother, one of Katharina’s exes, related to Ilya…. So many ways to explain his commitment to Liz without using this absurd Kat=Red nonsense
The show is over, you can't just insert the possibility of some random person that was never mentioned in the show. Not only is that not how you solve a mystery, but one of the director's has said that all the information to know Red's identity is in the show. There is more than enough evidence that in the show that confirms Red was Katarina. Also one of the writers has confirmed that Red was Katarina.
Honestly, I think they should have kept it that Red was Ilya Koslov. It wasn't the most satisfying explanation since there was no foreshadowing for the reveal, but it was more satisfying than not getting an answer. It also would make Red out to be noble- he took the identity of a known fugitive in order to protect a child that isn't even his. However, I was reminded by another video that in one of the episodes, we see that Red have burn scars on his back. This was meant to hint that he was in the house with Liz when it burnt out. At the end of s8 (I think) it is revealed that Katarina was also burnt in the fire. My problem is that Dom never acknowledges that Red is Katarina. In fact, Dom seems to dislike Red. They don't interact like there's any family bond between them. We also know that Dom knows Red's true identity because he tells fake-Katarina. But Dom also says that Katarina already knows the answer to the question. There's a lot of possible evidence that Red is Katarina, but also a lot of contradictory evidence.
Red was Katarina is the only logical conclusion that fills in all the holes. I suggest watching the entire series again knowing from the beginning that Red is Katarina. That she used Reds identity to not only be this untouchable figure and have the power to protect Liz, but also to not make Liz think she shot her father when she was a child. Thats also why the memory was erased. Go into the series again Not thinking Red is, but KNOWING Red is Katarina. You'd be surprised how all the clues just jump out at you.
OMG seriously Because he said he wasn't an abusive father/husband. If the Katarina theory is true he would be a pretty piss poor spy if he just came out and said he was once a woman don't you think? You think that if he was Katarina it is likely that he would hide the fact that he used to be a women? Seriously grasping on the most inconsequential information possible (the use of pronouns that would obviously be obfuscated). There are several scenes in episode 8x21 where Katarina is put in place of Reddington when he was having flash backs to things in the past. They are literally sharing the same memory/brain. It takes being familiar enough with the series to remember these scenes from previous episodes, but if you go back and compare these scenes it is irrefutable proof that the current Reddington was Katarina
What about the first season ....the first season has a lot of evidence against the redarina theory ....red saying he wants to sleep like he did when he was a boy ...the 20 years or more people knew him supposedly as who he was synchronized with Lizzy's childhood or birth ....there are many many points which would be really contradictory if he was Katarina
@@obaidaserdar1780 Yeah imagine a spy covering up his pronouns. That isn't "evidence" against the redarina theory it is only evidence that He hasn't just come out and blown his cover. It is a seriously bad argument. He was gone a long time before he returned and the show addressed whatever changes might of been in his appearance stating that people assumed he had plastic surgery while on the run. They already answered this establishing how any imposter could pass as Redman. Again it is a bad argument because this would be true for any imposter that went through the plastic surgery to become Reddington. No there aren't really any points that contradict the theory. There are just far reaching justifications that ignore painfully obvious answers. Also it isn't even a theory anymore 8x21 provided indisputable proof of the redarina theory. Different characters can't be in the same places, doing the same things, at the same time. While this reveal was subtle it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt.
@@bverji could it be that the show creators changed their mind in season 8 I don't think so ....but it could be ....also as a doctor I would like to believe such a change is very inaccurate
@@obaidaserdar1780 The admiral knew he was Redington because Redding was a known criminal, and/or because he looked enough like Redington to pass as him 30+ years later (which is the point of the plastic surgery). Again this is a poor argument because it applies to anyone that would be Redington. It is the exact same argument you made before, using a different example, that doesn't mean what you think it means and is obviously flawed because if it did prove Kat was not Red it would also prove any imposter is not Red, which we know he IS an imposter. Your argument about him looking familiar would be inconsistent with whoever the imposter is. The fact you can't make that association yourself, after having it explained to you, discredits your ability to apply critical thinking to the show. They didn't change anything the show had always led up to Redrina. Clues existed that Red=Kat since the first episode. By mid-way season 4 it was so obvious that they had start creating red herrings to draw away from the theory (red herrings the show later did away with). It is literally the only theory to be supported by the show throughout its run. It hasn't even been subtle. Trying to claim they shoehorned it in is simply not true.
1. The show was going to do Red = Katarina. 2. They dithered on this because they wanted to expand the scope of the show for more seasons. 3. Eventually they came to realize that they CANNOT do the Red = Katarina because James Spader is a white male actor and not a trans actor so they'd get a ton of backlash. 4. They realized they are screwed and are hoping no one notices they are forced to backtrack due to this.
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When the show started, they thought they could sell the trans idea and potentially reap the benefits of being the first show to go there with a lead like Spader. Then the issue became a political lightning rod for the culture wars, and that made them chicken out of the idea. The writer all but confirmed the theory at the end of season 8 when he departed the show, but let it lay in the realm of plausible deniability, letting instead the viewer see what they want to see in it. This is indeed likely this is how it all shaped up progressively.
Actually they started off not doing Red = Katarina, first 3 season events and dialogue makes that impossible. THEN they wanted to do it but opted out of it last minute.
That kinda makes the confusing make more sense. I think there's too many reference/connections to Red being Katarina to ignore. Honestly. Who knows. For me. I'm just going to believe he's the real Reddington and Liz dad.
There's also the theory that red is the Avatar of katarina like how liz used an avatar to speak through her to other people. It explains a lot and there are clues about brainwashing and implanting false memories changing faces throughout the show. Katarina said she created and reanimated red. What better way than handpicking an avatar ripe for brainwashing?
There is a high chance that Red is Katarina after the sex change. Why? Because there are lots of clues throughout the show that shows that Red is not what we see but something more. There are lot of scenes if you pay attention that when someone pokes, touches or looks at Red's space between his legs they don't find something that suppose to be there. Plus trans people exist and well women after changing their sex can also build up their muscles and gain weight and mass. So theoretically Red could be Katarina and I will stick my guns and say that I am confident that Red is Katarina or a woman that is related in some way to Liz and who transitioned into becoming a man to protect real Red's legacy and his daughter.
Tell me just one moment exactly when this happened. Someone to look between his legs and to be very surprised, that there is nothing manly 😂? Just one...ONE!
@@vencislavgynev8282 I believe there was an episode where he was kidnapped by some drug addicted/low ranking criminals and one of them was a woman and she was searching him and she was the one to point out to the viewers that there is nothing there between his legs. But most of us could perceive it at just a small stupid comment but if my theory is correct then there are more episodes where such small details have been shown. Anyways I hope you have an amazing day and have even better weekend!
@@vencislavgynev8282 Indeed, we can only see for sure when they finally reveal the identity of the character. It should be at the start or end of the last arc of the show which if I am not mistaken should start tonight!
its was pretty much spelled out at the end of season 8 that current red is katarina… and i am pretty sure that was the whole intension from beginning. but they kinda tip their hand too much at end of season 8. it became bit too obvious, and now writers might change it, but also try to confuse audience to hide true intensions. idk them killing liz was due to actress leaving or their intension all along, but if it was their intension it would be pretty stupid because the whole point of blacklist was because of liz and whole point of figuring out who red real is also whole point of liz obsession. pretty much anyone to care enough to know who red really is they are all gone. anyway if they add anyone new for who red real is at this point it is just bad writing, and no point to discuss who red real is anymore story wise. i hope season 10 is the last season and end… dragging this will only ruin the show.
I hate the redarina theory so much. Raymond is a MAN. He has had romantic relationships with women snd slept with many women, something which is impossible to have as a transman. I rlly hope this isn't the theory they go for
Why exactly is it impossible? The last girlfriend looks lesbian enough too. But I don't think you can counter the redarina theory because you don't like the idea of him being with women
Red even said himself that he has had sexual relationships with both women AND men. That particular surgery might not yet be possible in the real world, but this is television. They do tons of stuff that isn't possible yet.
The show runners never planned on revealing Reds true identity. I quit watching after season 7 because I knew it wes a scam. They treated the loyal viewers like idiots.
One reason to think the theory is impossible is Bc when old katarina(fake katarina) is first introduced Raymond calls her katarina and kisses her (they were alone) y wud he do that if he was in fact katarina and the only connection he had to the fake was supply her with money and resources to survive. On the flip side the whole episode abt camp may shows only katarina and the entire thing was just a flashback Raymond/katarina was having. Also in one of the earlier seasons I think when Alexander Kirk comes into play Raymond and Elizabeth’s dna matched so even tho he had surgery to look like the real reddington he couldn’t have taken his dna which wud be the only way to match with Elizabeth unless…he is katarina in which case obviously they share dna
It was later confirmed that Red knew she was not the real Katarina. So, obviously her called her Katarina because that was what she was currently going by. The fact that Katarina was the only one at camp may and was a flash back for Raymond/katarina is actually pretty strong proof that Red was Katarina. It is also impossible that he was there given the time line. It would have been after the real red died and before the fake Red had the plastic surgery. The DNA only shoed paternity...meaning that Red was Liz's parent. That DNA test didn't confirm Reds identity or gender.
@@spirittammyk I think you mean DNA tests. That isn't how DNA tests work though. They need a warrant to receive genetic information (they can match DNA without a warrant) So, someone would have to suspect Red of being a woman and specifically get a warrant to do a DNA gender test. The only two DNA tests done was not done on imposter Red but the real Redington. The first, on blood from an old shirt to match paternity, This confirmed that the real Redington was Liz's father. The second DNA test done on the bones of the real Redington to confirm that he was dead. Imposter Red has never received a DNA test.
@@mr.p215 Yes, I make that point in my next post. I was arguing that it wouldn't make sense even if it was the imposter Red because there were and still are people so delusional to think he IS the real RED.
I'm in the process of watching the entire series. I'm at season 4, episode 6. All this jabbering about Red's sex change is nonsensical to me. A tad too far down a rabid rabbit hole for me. It was unfortunate how Elizabeth pulled a Lazurus in season 3.
WTF is the matter with you all. Red is Liz's Mother. That's it. Look at Red's demeanour. Red has a bent towards details such as clothes, food, painting, young children (in a Platonic sense), etc. Red has a strong nurturing urge, etc. Although these attributed do also apply to men, on a spectrum of possibilities, there is a skewer toward female attributes. I'd be disappointed if Red was not Liz's mother ... but I'd accept that Red is Liz's OLDER brother.
This is really grasping at straws when a Katarina-Reddington could have said he wasn't an abusive father/husband because he was never a father/husband but a mother/wife in the first place. This isn't telling us anything conclusive about the Rederina theory, any which way.
Idk where this channel got all its info from but I’ve been watching since before the theory was named mommy theory n I’ve finished the show n the idea isn’t this complicated. Katarina is Raymond. Raymond is katarina. It isn’t a split personality or anything like that.
I am more inclined to think is a brother of the real reddingtong, as in season one when Liz asked him why his interest, he replied because your father.
Other than ORR he could be Ilya..while that guy they showed isn’t Ilya or why not the bald guy Katarina sent back at the night of fire to get the fulcrum? What I’m sure of is: HE’S A MAN. \
Or you could actual use the information presented in the rather than creating fan fiction. The show is over you can't just insert people that were never introduced to the story. If you are going to do that you can make any story mean just about anything because you a literally re-writing it.
Not how DNA tests work. They don't just give you a list of characteristics. They only show what is tested for. The DNA test you are talking about tests paternity it would not give gender. The DNA for the test was also from the real Redington, not the current imposter.
This theory to me sounds outrageous how could he be a woman when they show pictures of Raymond from 30 years ago atleast Elizabeth wouldn’t have even been born then
It was after those pictures of Redington, Liz was about 4. I don't see why it is outrageous...transition surgery is a thing, and the entire premise of The Blacklist is that there is advance science available to the under ground.
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can watch the show and not come away with the clear answer that Red is Katarina. Even leaving aside that episode 8.21 just about explicitly spells it all out for us, there are clues peppered throughout almost the entire series. If we assume that the writers themselves didn't always have this in mind, which is a safe assumption, and you discount a lot of the evidence as coincidence, there's just too much evidence that is obviously written in that does point this way. There is no one else Red could be but Katarina.
Didnt Agnes Said in Their Last call in the Last episode, When they talk about andy and the school project that he is like a mother, because he cares so much?!?! And then he smiled and was like: yeah, somehow i always was?! So could he be katharina?
Trotzdem bleibt die Frage welche Familie? Welches Mädchen war da? Glaube kaum das Katharina noch eine Familie hatte, wie auch wenn sie kein richtiger Mann ist. In Staffel 1 beschäftigt Red sehr was mit seiner Familie passiert ist. Er erzählte Madeline Pratt auch von dem Winter und das war absolut ehrlich was er sagt. Das passt nicht zu dem Rest. Er sagte es liegt über 20 Jahre her. Das passt alles nicht. Auch Naomi weiß wer er ist.
This is my biggest issue with this theory. The medical knowledge and science just isn't there to make a woman into a man or vice versa. It would basically be magic.
@@Teadrinker-zy1yp The entire show is built on the premise of heightened science. That is most of what the Blacklist is. It was also establish in the episode Djinn that this is possible. The Blacklist is a low-key science fiction show.
Katarina is Red, she created the mythology of the character then became him with plastic surgery after the real Red died. The only thing that makes sense is Red being Katarina, anything else is just not logical.
I just prefer red to be liz father more than her mother bc I like the way he protects her and his humor if this theory were true the way I fell feel about his personality or character would totally change for me it in a negative way because Red wouldn't be red but instead a female. For me it feels like making a entirely new show but this time instead of being a male it's a women and the theory makes since but it just doesn't feel right for some reason. And it doesn't make since because eboth red and Katerina have been in the show and how can red become Katerina when Katerina is already a character in the show. They have talked to each other is what I am trying to say I just want him to be liz father also I hoped that Liz was alive since the beginning I wanted ressler and her to end up together
Red is not Red. That has been beaten to death in the show. Redington's bones were dug up, the show has confirmed he is dead many times from many sources. The show has directly confirmed Red is an imposter many times over. There where 4 years of plot where he killed and risked his entire empire to hide his identity. Wouldn't make much sense to hide his real identity if he was in fact himself. The real Redington also hid the fulcrum and the imposter Red didn't know where it was. As for Red being male not female changing the show...the entire undercurrent of the show is about identity. What makes someone who they are. The very first episode Red says "Everything about me is a lie." taken literally that would include gender. If you are a top tier spy trained to take on new personas to the point that you self-delude yourself. You change your physical appearance, erase certain memoirs you have, under go psychological reprogramming and then live your life as a completely different person for 30 years...what is your identity? Are you who you were? Are you who you pretend to be? Are you something new, a mixture of both? That is the underlying premise of the show.
@@bverjiI will say to you one thing - DNA. 😂😂😂 Let accept theoretically, that Katarina had access to the best top tier plastic surgery doctors, best medical and hormonal treatment, that only the richest and most powerful people could. With all that you can change your face, muscle mass and density, bones density and size, maybe the whole body composition( bone structure, muscle and tissue composition), maybe you can change your eyes, fingerprints and teeth/dental structure and everything about you lookness and appearance. Let accept, that you can change your all mannerism and behavior. It's called acting and behavior psychology. With everything said i can agree, but with one can not. This thing is how i said in the beginning, your own DNA. According to the science soon will be possible to do that to unborn babies, to embryos, but to fully grown adult human being. It is totally different thing, it's impossible. Even after hundreds years, just not possible. So i am now to my main point. How he can pass for biological male, if he was born biological female??? One DNA tests can debunk all that Katarina theory. They did him tests and he passed as biological male, but not as real Red, which can not be possible, if he was born female😂! Just HUGE PLOTHOLE...HUGE!!! I don't remember good, but maybe i am wrong about the tests. But even they did not do to him DNA test, again HUGE PLOTHOLE. 😂 To prove someone is not, who he is, just do to him couple of tests, the superior one is the DNA test. Some how you can pass others, but DNA test you CAN NOT! And since the real Red was ex Navi and ex CIA agent, the agencies probably have database with his DNA markers, blood samples, eye pictures( eye scanning), fingerprints, dental records and more. This is the easiest way to prove someone is not a person like a real Red. If they say they don't have this database - it is a big plothole, it is false! To not do to him many different teast, using this database - even BIGGER plothole😂! And to be able to pass the DNA test( to be born a woman and successfully pass as man😂😂😂) - A HUGE PLOTHOLE🤣🤣🤣!!! So anyway if the writers make the theory canon, it will be the stupidest and the biggest fanserving writing in the cinema history. Just for milking the fanbase to the maximum.
@@vencislavgynev8282 The DNA tests didn't identify him as male. That is not how DNA tests work, particularly government tests. The DNA test was a paternity test it only identifies if they are a parent not the gender or other information of the subject. DNA tests take warrants and can only test for what is in the warrant. It doesn't give you a long list of genetic characteristics. In the show no one that has done a test has any reason to suspect Red is genetically female so there would be no reason to test for it. The idea that the DNA identified Red as male is false and based on ignorance of how DNA tests are done. Also all the DNA test's are from the real Redington, not the imposter Red, so it wouldn't prove who imposter Red is anyway. As for DNA markers, blood samples, we know that the was not available to the FBI because in the first episode when speaking of identifying Red they did not mention doing a DNA test. This is further supported by the fact they had to acquire DNA from alternate source to test Red with. Also DNA databases didn't exist until decades after Red left the military. Eye pictures( eye scanning) not something that is generally taken particularly 40 years ago. Dental is easy enough to replicate and can change dramatically over 40 years. Finger print prosthetics and transplants already exist and would be well with in the realm of the heightened science of the Blacklist Universe. It isn't a plot hole, you are just making assumptions that are false. Also Red isn't Redington. This has been beaten to death, and to your point on DNA tests Cooper provides an old shirt that is used to compare to the bones in season 5 and confirm that RED is in fact dead, but again such tests only confirm identity they don't give a list of characteristics about the subject. It is beyond any possible explanation that doesn't contradict the story many times over that Red is anything but an imposter. SO, even if any of your explanations did have merit (which they don't) it would mean the whole show is a plot hole, but the real answer is that you are just making a ton of assumptions not confirmed by the show and actually contradicted by reality.
@@vencislavgynev8282 It showed that the real Redington's was Liz's parent. The blood for the DNA test was in CODIS by this point (assumingly added because of the paternity test done with the shirt) but that has never been compared to the fake Redington's (Red's) DNA. That DNA from the original Redington was later used to confirm that the bones where the real Redington's
The Redarina theory is ridiculous. So Katerina had a sex change and became a ladies' man? What kind of Dr did her work to give her a totally different build from a tall slim red head to a stocky balding man? Nope, not buying it. Red also knew exactly who Jennifer was. Also when Red tracked down the woman posing as Katerina. When he approached her he called out the name Katerina. Why would he do this if he/she was Katerina? See, stupid! I thought he was most likely the real Red and survived the gunshot and house fire. They did show him badly burned on his back. But that would lead to make you wonder who was in the suit case? Would have been nice to have a definitive answer at the end. Also this video is wrong. Liz read the letter before Red was dead. She knew who she was. If Red was her mother there is absolutely no way in hell Liz would ever even consider shooting her mother. Instead she said " I don't think I can do this" As she pointed the gun at Red. Liz would have confronted and embraced her mother/Red long before she showed up to shoot him/her. See. Stupid. The largest hole in Liz's life was not having a mother and wondering why she was abandoned. Redarina? Stupid theory.
If you think Red is the real Raymond Reddington still then I don't know what to say to you. The question is why will he kill people who discovered his identity if his identity is Reddington which everybody knows. Why? This means he is not the real Raymond Reddington. And those people also saying maybe it's a twin brother or a cousin of the real Reddington, that's also crazy. How come we've watched a show up to season 9 with almost 200 episodes and no one has ever mentioned you. How? Although I don't like the idea of transgending and don't like transgenders but If Red doesn't turn out to be Katarina, I will be very disappointed. After all these sacrifices and help, who would do all these if not a parent. And those saying, they want red to be the real Reddington (Liz's father), do you know why they revealed that Katarina got burned in the fire season 8 episode 21, it was to debunk the fact that Red is not the real Reddington because from the start of the series, people were saying he is the real Reddington because of the burns on his back. They made it possible so that people can't use that to debunk the fact that Red is Katarina.
I know what do they have to do to prove the real Reddington is dead. They have beat that horse to death. You have to be completely delusional to not accept that the current Reddington is an imposter.
@@robertpreston2220i don’t think it should be allowed to change gender but it is allowed in many country’s and it’s a fictional story anyway. Red = Katarina I don’t like it either but it’s the truth and there’s a lot of evidence for it trough out the serie
Lmao is katarina then how does Jennifer not know that her father looks completely different 😂such a major plot hole no one talks about. Obviously she would remember what her dad looked like when she was young and then now they’re older her dad looks like a completely different person ? 😂am I the only one who thought this ?
uhhh you’ve seen the whole show. so you can see in the truth reveal that he clearly looks very different as a young man as compared to now. also, reminder, jennifer hasn’t known her dad since she was a child and he left that christmas eve. there’s been an infinite number of people throughout history who have met a parent or relative they only knew when they were young and years later don’t recognize. bc the other person and you have drastically changed, ofc she’s not gonna recognize the man.
This would be true for anyone who is the imposter Red. Your argument disproves itself because your premise is obviously flawed...anyone would have the same problem.
I can see how some people would think Raymond is Katarina - a lot of things fit logically but ultimately it isn't plausible. He was unconscious in a French hospital, being tended by nurses and doctors, under close observation at the 'Post Office' in the cage, was in prison, where induction would include a thorough physical examination and he was always surrounded by a variety of people and had a physical relationship with the woman in Kansas - you would think someone would have noticed. Also, one thing wrong with the flashbacks theory is that Katarina appears in the flashback. When you remember something in your past, you, as the observer don't appear. If it had been with no one in it, from Katarina's viewpoint, I would have bought it. Sorry, I just don't buy it. Frankly, the main reason to watch this show was James Spader's portrayal of Raymond Reddington.
You are making a ton of assumptions not confirmed by the show based on ignorance of how medicine procedures actually work. As for your explanation about flash backs that is ridiculously. How memory works and what a flashback is are not anywhere near the same thing. How many flashbacks in entertainment are usually done from first person perspective like none of them. You are trying to force a standard that is not a standard of how flashbacks are betrayed in any story. It underscores the absurd lengths you are willing to go to force the interpretation you want regardless of facts and common sense.
@@ianboard544 No, just don't like it when people lie. It is so obvious that Red is Katarina it is delusional to conclude anything else. You have all the right to be delusional, but if you are going to come onto a public forum and try to convince others of misinformation than you shouldn't be surprised there is some push back.
@@bverji Why on earth do you conclude that I'm lying? I don't mind pushback at all - but then push back against specific points I raised instead of name-calling.
@@ianboard544 I think you are lying because I give you credit of having basic critical thinking skills. Thus your refusal to use them is willful. You are smart enough to know you are not applying your argument about flashbacks, for example, in a way consistence with how flashbacks are ever done. That makes it a lie assuming you have the most basic critical thinking skills. I also never called you a name...another lie.
In the house fire only 2 ppl got burned both Red that died and Kat that did not. In the first season we see Raymond taking his shirt off and see his back is all burned up. He has to be Katarina
That is not true. In 8x21 you see Red dying from the gun shot in the car before anyone get's burned. Then Liz runs back into the house for the stuffed animal and Katarina goes in after her. Liz then remembers that Katarina was burned and says "you were burned" and Katarina replies "we both were." Not only was Katarina burned, but no one else is confirmed to have been burned, but Katarina and Liz.
I'm late on this debate, but here is my 2 cents. Somehow there is sophisticated enough surgery to alter height, bone density, muscle mass, pelvic structure, etc. to turn a woman into a person presenting as a man, including creation of a functioning phallus so realistic that no one can tell the difference, without leaving any telltale scaring, but you can't remove some burn scars???
You are putting way to much realism (and assumptions that are never addressed) on a show that has pregnant men, memory modification, DNA masking and even an episode where they do the same thing in reverse a man "becoming" a woman. You are applying a highly inconsistent standard of disbelief.
@@bverji I recently saw the men becoming pregnant episode. It was idiotic, but not every episode on a tv show is a homerun. However, who Reddington is seems to be a central theme of the show, not a one-off bad episode and should be held to a higher standard. Don't remember the other two episodes you mentioned, so I either haven't seen them yet or more likely those plots were so ridiculous that I focused on other aspects of the show. There are enough good and even great episodes I can overlook the stinkers, but not a poorly written central theme.
@@theothernatfife5004 You are just making excuses. The point is that the entire basis of the show is not based on reality it is based on the concept of a heightened reality where things like that are possible. Removing that part of the well-established setting and genre while trying to pretend it isn't actually part of the setting and genre so that you can try and force a conclusion is nonsensical. It is like saying that Clark Kent can't be Superman because Superman's powers can't be real, while you ignore all the rest of the superpowered people in the genre. Your argument is literally the antithesis of what storytelling is all about and obviously so. You are selectively choosing what is acceptable pseudo-science to believe not based on the criteria of the show. but specifically, so you can re-write the show to mean what you want it to mean.
I believe no one knows including the writers. The show will go off and we will still wonder who is Raymond Reddington.
you got it right
I think what happened is that each time they revealed who it was, they needed a new twist to continue for another season.
There is a scene in the Cape May episode that kind of gives it away, but you have to watch it again with the Redarina theory in mind. The scene is a conversation over dinner, Katarina says, "You tell me, tell yourself." then later Katarina says "you've been here before." and Red replies, 'Once, a very long time ago, I was a different person then, you." it's all hidden in the context, but watch it again and it's suddenly a clue. And then the conversation at the beach at the end takes it to the next level, prety much giving it away.
Once he lectured some goon about loyalty and talked aboveut a job he had as a teenager and how his Dad made him finish the job and the boss gave him a $40 bonus..... . I would think that back then it was mostly a boy who would do such work, not a girl
In season 1 there are tons of evidences against the redarina theory ....he wanted to sleep like he did when he was a boy ...that is the words ....there are memories he speaks of and people share which is over 25 years ago ... supposedly older than the Lizzy's fire incident
I always use that to debunk that stu***ity..he was an American boy one day..he said that..that’s the normal thing and how this show intended..the writers are cleverly using the doubts some viewers have to make it more enigmatic
@@signorelucky3432 I want something other than "he's Katarina'---but despite these nuggets you and I discussed....shit, isn't there so much hint that he is her? Like when Lizzy died....shit, they all but said it. Then Constantine was about to kill him- Red whispers- Constantine looks at his eyes and leaves. It was either "Free hot dog if you let me go" or "I'm Katarina, you have a birth mark on your left nut". Then At Constantine's house -- Lizzy found that thing she and Katarina buried. I don't like the Kat-is-Red-theory. But dammit, so many hints to that effect. I still feel Ilya has some key to this. I don't know what.
I believe they got a wind of that guess early on and started misleading people (the writers I mean) but what I believe is Red is Red and knowing the Russians maybe from his Mother's side or that his father was an operative there..not that he's her..he could've told him that she's alive and I can let her contact you.
@@MPDLR I don't get why pepole don't like it. It is the ultimate sarcfice a super spy like Kat could make. It makes her literally the best spy in the world. Beside that it is such a clever story.
I'm not sure I even care who he really is anymore.
Empty voices I know it!!! I just don't want him to go away!! I bet they could keep it going for another 10yrs.if they really wanted to.But,it is a great ending.
Yes…does it really even matter any more? There are so many scenes that precipitate a confusing and / or a veiled elusive argument both for or against. Not sure if the plot writing simply failed in so many ways - or was it intentional to present a number of weak decoys that leave one confused to the point of giving up on the whole thing. My question is more focused on how one could put up with a lot of mis-cast, poorly directed and weakly written actors - save for James Spader who in somewhat Shakespearean style singularly carried the whole series!
Anyone else remember Dembe saying " You're my cat(Kat) in a hat" ?
Which episode was this??
That’s not true .. and if it was said then cat is spelled with a C .. besides that’s disgusting
@@signorelucky3432cat can be Kat... I have a few friends that go by Kat... one's Katie and the other is Katherine.
@@dawnkeener9836 Raymond had a family .. a daughter that was a ballerina .. he slept with multiple traditional women .. and he’d need a whole lot of supply of hormones - which he didn’t get in prison yet he raised a beard- add to that Red stated that Katarina commited su i cide .. plus DNA shows gender ..
Aside from the avalanche of evidences throughout the entire series that Red is in fact Katarina, there is a scene in which fake Katarina is interrogating Dom (Liz's grandfather). In that scene, he all but confesses that Red is Katarina. He essentially tells her that Reddington and Katarina, both have the Archive. And don't even get me started on the whole Townsend mess.
he is a man not a woman
@@robertpreston2220 There are several scenes in episode 8x21 where Katarina is put in place of Reddington when he was having flash backs to things in the past. They are literally sharing the same memory/brain. It takes being familiar enough with the series to remember these scenes from previous episodes, but if you go back and compare these scenes it is irrefutable proof that the current Reddington was Katarina.
@@bverji red is a man not a woman. that much is as clear as it can be
@@robertpreston2220 Yes because women have never been known to pass as men, particularly in a science fiction show. If your perception of his maleness is the only thing you have in response to the fact that the show has the two characters sharing the same memories you are just in denial for whatever reason. The ENTIRE premise of the show is based around the concept of questioning identity and part of that has been and is gender.
@@bverji This is not science fiction
Red took the DNA test and was confirmed parent. He also tells Liz he doesn't lie but may stretch the truth. He said No I am not your father. That means he is Liz's mother. Also in the scene where his frind says there's nothing to make me change my mind... Red leans over and whispers... I am Katerina. If you turn it up really loud you can hear it.
I do not see how Red could be a woman or a trans man. His wife and daughter remember him and his ex- wife calls him Raymond. His marriage took place before all of the mess with Katarina. Also, he is definitely supposed to be Jennifer's father and there is no way a woman or trans man can father a child.
So, the real Redington was married to Naomi and the father of Jennifer. But the real Redington was shot by Liz and died when Jennifer was still a little girl. It wasn't until the real Redington died that Katarina became fake Red. This is why fake Red is completely devotes to Liz, but has little concern for Jennifer...Jenifer isn't fake Red's daughter. There are clues that Naomi (Redington's wife) recognized that fake Red was an imposter, but regardless it is well established that Red is an imposter no ifs, ands, or buts. So any question on if the plastic surgery was good enough to fool people is true no matter who Red was. The show establishes that the doctor that did the plastic surgery was the best, that science available to the underworld was more advanced, and that red was an imposter and no one questioned what he looked like. You are digging for justifications that run directly against what the show established and what the shows writers have confirmed since.
Like bro who else could Raymond be.... the Evidence is all right there..... Hes not the real raymond. He doesnt give two fucks about Jennifer, He has entire flashbacks about Katarina ALL the time. They have the same burns. He knows shit Only Katarina knew........
Right, an no one noticed for 30 years? Including a federal prison, a French hospital and all the people around him.
All those who try to debunk the redarina theory are at this point just coping 😂😂😂😂😂
and not very well.
Watch the show again. Every single line Red say about Katarina, Liz, and the whole secret speaks loud and clear that he is Katarina.
Watch the show again.
The last two things happens in the last two episodes is Red telling Liz in the park when she asks him "Why cannot I know who you are now before i kill you?" He says "Because if you know, you'll never do it"
Finally, Red is going thru the whole thing again with Dembe and what happens after he dies, so he asks Dembe "And my body?" Dembe answers "Don't worry. the city will never get your body"
If the FBI gets Red's body, they'll know the extensive surgeries Red went through that ultimately changed his sex!
What a show!
At the end of season 1, we see scars from a fire on "Red's" back. It could have been from any fire, but it is suggested he was present at the fire Liz was saved from after having shot the real Reddington. Besides Rostova, LIz and the readl Reddington, who could have been there? Why does Mr. Kaplan, in digging the real Reddington's skeleton say to herself: "forgive me Katarina" (or should we rather say Ekaterina?). We have seen "Red" ready to die for Liz, not hesitating to exchange his life for Liz's - would an uncle or a friend of Katarina go that far 25-30 years later? Why did "Red" save Alexander Kirk's life? Only self-interest? And Kirk accepted to leave voluntarily - what did they say to one another? At the end of season 8, "Red" is ready to die to let Liz read a letter, says "Red" written by Liz's mother. If Katarina is not "Red", that she wrote a letter when Liz was only a child to be read in some future to reveal the imposter appears quite improbable. But if "Red" is Katarina, a freshly written letter is still by Liz's mother. Katarina was condemned to death by the Cabal, the US secret services and the Soviet/Russian secret services. Being #1 criminal on the FBI list looks like a vacation compared to that situation. Liz could be used as a blackmail against Katarina in order to get Katarina - this is why revealing "Red"s" identity as Katarina could put Liz in danger. But if Katarina dies, and it is known with certainty, Liz is not under that threat anymore: hence the condition that Liz kills "Red" before reading the letter, and the affirmation that if the read the letter before, Liz would not be able to kill "Red". Those are a lot of elements in favour of the Redarina theory, and I probably forgot some others.
Good grief did you get it all out? You wanna write a little bit more?
For Labelle. Reddinkton is not Katarina! Proof about this is in the part Requiem!
Red is Liz's mother but not Katerina. So Katerina isn't Liz's mother
@@killuazoldyck9585 What makes you think Reddinkton was a woman in the past? I don't get it. Lol
@@josefkilberger6930See the flashback at the end of season 8. It is pretty cleae red was Katarina. She dove in the fire to save her daughter, she has the photo of Liz and Katarina on the swing, which Btw is Katarina's favourite photo. When Liz asks it Reddington took the photo, he says no. Then liz asks, but you were there? Red says I was. And you knew my mother? Red says, Better than anyone. All this proves he Is Katarina. That is why when Fake Katarina emerges, Red is able to convincingly say that Katarina is dead. He built the whole blacklist for 30 years, why would anyone do that for a random kid? But a mother surely can. Lastly, Ilya cared a lot about Katarina in the past, why would he care about reddington so much in the present? Same goes for Dom. Why would he have such a good relation willing to die for a stranger? But it all makes sense if Red is Katarina.
Which show took longer to explain who is the parent, how I met your mother OR the blacklist?
Katarina's job was to literally to learn 'everything' about a target and get what she needed. She was a master of playing a part, and she knew Raymond better than her knew himself. And for me it's the little things, there have been many times when some of Reddingtons mannerisms were very feminine and jus some of his dialog with women seemed like it was too women chatting. Plus, they showed evidence that Katarina probably preferred to be with women.
I’ve thought from the beginning Red was Katarina. But the more we see his build, his balding, and lovers it seems to be less likely.
Exactly! Every woman he been with will notice or he dated only women, who like trans people 😂Which is not something impossible, but again too over the top. The problem with that theory is it having too much "IF" in it.
This! If they had used a more feminine looking actor, I probably could have bought it, but James Spader is too thick and his feet too big to be that of a woman. Especially someone who was supposed to be gorgeous like Katarina. The big give away though is when Red gave Ressler a blood transfusion in season one. Can't give female blood to males.
@@spirittammyk wtf of course you can
That's what I thought aswell. We know in the real world that some females can pass a male with enough time but as soon as they take of their clothes you'll see the hips of a woman, scars from masectomy, the missing dick and the whole body itself
It's a movie... It's the last thing you should wory about... BTW... I also hate they made Red Katerina. I realy liked the character
I have watched every single epiosde start to finish over 9 years and 4 epiosdes so far.
There is no way in hell Red is katerina.
REd is asctaully Red, he is liz's father. the idea he is katerina is the most stupidestt idiotic ridiculous thing ever.
There is no way red is red. They have beat that horse to death.
@@toromontana8290 Or it could actually be what the show has repeated indicated for nearly a decade and he was Katarina.
@@toromontana8290 They said in the first episode they didn't have DNA to test against and a medical check wouldn't show anything. They would have to know what they were looking for.
@@bverjigetting his current dna would certainly deliver pretty concrete evidence that he is male or female. Ain't no plastic surgery that can change your dna
First off I am glad she is gone, she was a bad agent, bad profiler, and failed at most everything in the show. That being said, my thought is "she wouldn't kill him if she knew who he was" I can't think of anyone except her mom. Red admitted to erasing her memory and so did Katerina at the end of season 8. So they both did? Or same person?
If you want answers, watch Season 8 episode 21. Red is Katarina Rostova. No arguments
Yeah whatever floats your boat 😂
He’s not. The writers got lost in their own story
That hint about father husband in no way proves Redarina is debunked.
What if Redarina was where the identity was supposed to land the whole time, but because of real world issues with left vs right wing they decided to muddle the picture and let the viewers come to their own conclusions. We see happening to Disney over this issue and who could have ever thought that mighty mighty Disney would be on the ropes. A little food for thought!
It is very possible this is what was intended, and they chickened out of confirming it completely, letting the plot lay where it ended up at the end of season 8. It would make a lot of sense, to not attract the ire of either "side" of the culture wars. Plausible deniability goes a long way. You then let the people see what they want to see in it.
I can imagine with the size of Red being a woman. Everyone keeps forgetting what Mr. Kaplan unearthed to show Liz who refused the chance to see the corpse. I still this he’s a man. If not Bokencamp wrote a lot of crap….
It is actually well crafted, lots of details planned from the beggining, dutifully peppered througout the seasons
Ahem. The "real" Raymond Reddington was supposedly a U.S. Naval Intelligence Officer. It was implied that he had a high level security clearance. That necessarily entails that they had his fingerprints, blood type, eye color, and medical records including dental records on file. Furthermore, it is quite likely that earlier in his career before he ended up doing whatever it was he was doing when he got involved with Katarina Rostova that he had given intelligence briefings that had been videotaped. Thus it is almost certain that they could have gotten his voice print if they put forth the effort to do so.
I know of no way that somebody's fingerprints could be permanently altered to resemble somebody else's fingerprints. Also, regardless of the extent to which Katarina could potentially have been subjected to the latest and greatest plastic surgery that a billionaire could get their hands on, sorry trans idiots, she's still genetically female. Thus a decent analysis of her blood from a blood sample and/or possibly even a standard urinalysis would reveal that she's NOT a he and thus could NOT be Raymond Reddington.
Sorry, given what I know of how the Navy tracks people (I'm a former mustang line officer, had a top secret clearance) coupled with having an M.A. in Physical Anthropology I simply don't see how somebody could pull off passing a "fake" Raymond Reddington as the genuine article if the FBI was willing and able to do a decent check up on the guy. It would be incredibly difficult to do at best if the imposter was a male who actually resembled Raymond Reddington. Fingerprints, voice prints and dental records would be the most obvious give aways. Possibly blood type as well. But no way a female however modified by plastic surgery could pull it off. And let us also consider how many blood relatives Raymond Reddington may have who could supply samples of genetic material to be compared against Raymond's. To say nothing of that being a blindingly obvious way to spot a female pretending to be Raymond.
Nope, I am occasionally willing to suspend disbelief because it's a fun show and I like it. But I can't take it seriously because of plot holes that an aircraft carrier could sail through.
Red is most certainly not the real Red. It has been confirmed repeatedly that he is an imposter. So your argument about how hard it would be to be fake is obviously flawed because no matter who he is this would have been an issue.
As for a DNA test that is not how DNA tests work, particularly not government tests. They don't give a long list of genetic characteristics. Unless there is a reason to particularly check for gender a DNA test would not indicate that. The DNA test checked for paternity
Saying that a woman could never pass as a man given extensive plastic surgery is just nonsense. Men pass as women even without such surgeries. The show has already confirmed that such realistic gender surgery is possible in the Djinn episode.
As for testing his DNA against blood relatives, first what blood relatives...the only one was his daughter that was in hiding. Second, someone would only do such a test if they actually thought he was an imposter.
You come up with some ideas that would make sense on the surface, but your arguments largely assume that the characters know what the viewer knows which would cause the characters to actively attempt to disprove Red's identity. They have also indicated that Red's personal information such as photo's, DNA, fingerprints are not readily available from his past, that they are protected by the Navy.
To quote son... Why/How? Because ots Hollywood and fantasy and most importantly,.....it's in the script.
@@princessoffire1107
The show is not fantasy or hardcore scifi. Yes, maybe there is some things like secrets technology, that is a little more advanced than the mainstream, but it is not like something centuries ahead from now. Let say, that Katatina had access to technology and medical treatment, that only 1-5% of human society have, only the richest and most powerful ones, still you can NOT change everything to make biological female to pass all tests as a biological male. With plastic surgery you can change the face, maybe the eyes( their color and irises), maybe you can change the whole teeth structure, maybe you can change the voice frequency. Maybe with very expensive and rare hormone treatment you can make the body of one woman, to look very male. You can use even HGH to change the muscle size and density, even more the size and density of organs and bones too( but the whole bone structure you can't not, but lets say, you can on theory). With special surgery you can change the height of the body( specific bone manipulation - its a real thing actually) Maybe you can change fingerprints, to mold them different( here i am not very sure, but again to accept something only very small part of human society can do). All that to that poin you can change. It is not scifi, it's something possible with today science and medicine. Also let say, she had access( how i said) to something very secret and rare, only the richest and most powerful could. Let say she did it for many years, to transform herself perfectly to look like 100% male. Mannerism and behavior also can be copied and learnt. About all that i could agree, BUT😂...one big " BUT...there is things, you can NOT change. Or at least the next centuries we could not. And that thing is a human genes. If we talking about embryos and not born child - maybe, actually the science say, it is possible or will be, but talking about fully grown adult human being😂 - IT IS MORE THAT 100% NOT POSSIBLE!!! No in the next centuries or even much, much more. One single DNA test will show, not only Red is impostor, but also actually HE is SHE, IF we accept he was Katarina. If i remember correctly, they did him a DNA test. So no way, after the test he( if he is she actually) to pass for a biological male. Only way to do it is, if he actually is a biological male, which will mean, that he is not Katarina. Thing about that you and all others believe in that crazy theory. Educate yourself. Also no way they to pass that, they did not do to him some tests. If you want to prove someone is imposter, there is so many tests and DNA test is one of them. No way to not do it, especially knowing the fact, that the real Red( who died) was ex navi and CIA agent. So they probably still have database about him - DNA markers, fingerprints, pictures of his eyes, dental records and more.
So that's why the whole Katarina theory is stupid. And if they do it, it will be only to milk the fans even more, knowing how popular this theory is for some reason😮.
@@vencislavgynev8282 Not all scifi is far in the future. The premise of the show is about criminal science that mainstream world don't know exsist. As for DNA they would have to have DNA tests that actual test for gender. DNA tests don't just give a big list of characteristics. Also the DN test's from the show where done from the real Redington. As for DNA markers, blood samples, we know that the was not available to the FBI because in the first episode when speaking of identifying Red they did not mention doing a DNA test. This is further supported by the fact they had to acquire DNA from alternate source to test Red with. Also DNA databases didn't exist until decades after Red left the military. Eye pictures( eye scanning) not something that is generally taken particularly 40 years ago. Dental is easy enough to replicate and can change dramatically over 40 years. Finger print prosthetics and transplants already exist and would be well with in the realm of the heightened science of the Blacklist Universe
did you finish the series
I don’t think the writers had the redarina theory in mind at the beginning but changed their mind half way through. Either way the show was good but I hope we do get a answer one day
They allowed fans to go there but it wasn’t the story plan
They just let fans believe whatever they wanted
She was never burned as some falsely stated
No amount of plastic surgery, hormones and DNA alterations Katarina could have undergone in the early 90s add 4 inches(the difference between the two) and bone density. Let alone all those who would have to cover up this secret for him who wished to destroy him.
How also could Red have slept with all the women he has and none of them notice the surgeries he has had done (plus he is referred to as a ladies man in one episode).
When Liz asked Red about his real identity in season 8 last Eps when she agreed to kill him to take over , red Answer was "You will not kill me if i told you" - Who else would he be other than a "mother"? - other thing , Red deleted one file from the Surgery Doctor. who had that Surgery? But still many question like Mr.Kaplan
Only one comment? That makes me suspicious. Not really. I never bought into the whole sex-change-radical-plastic-surgery-to-look-like-the-"real"-Reddington thing. It was one of the show's more obvious red herrings. They dropped the entire business in an unexpected attack of mental health, I suppose. It was absurd--and it was proof that someone in the script chain had to be fired. Someone was.
He is no Katarina by any means because reddington can't fight for shit. Katarina was lethal physically and weapon wise .
Yeah because a early 30 Katarina vs a 60+ year old man who had a sex change is a perfect comparison.
Red could be an uncle, a hidden brother, one of Katharina’s exes, related to Ilya…. So many ways to explain his commitment to Liz without using this absurd Kat=Red nonsense
The show is over, you can't just insert the possibility of some random person that was never mentioned in the show. Not only is that not how you solve a mystery, but one of the director's has said that all the information to know Red's identity is in the show. There is more than enough evidence that in the show that confirms Red was Katarina. Also one of the writers has confirmed that Red was Katarina.
Red is Katarina Rostova.
Honestly, I think they should have kept it that Red was Ilya Koslov. It wasn't the most satisfying explanation since there was no foreshadowing for the reveal, but it was more satisfying than not getting an answer. It also would make Red out to be noble- he took the identity of a known fugitive in order to protect a child that isn't even his.
However, I was reminded by another video that in one of the episodes, we see that Red have burn scars on his back. This was meant to hint that he was in the house with Liz when it burnt out. At the end of s8 (I think) it is revealed that Katarina was also burnt in the fire. My problem is that Dom never acknowledges that Red is Katarina. In fact, Dom seems to dislike Red. They don't interact like there's any family bond between them. We also know that Dom knows Red's true identity because he tells fake-Katarina. But Dom also says that Katarina already knows the answer to the question. There's a lot of possible evidence that Red is Katarina, but also a lot of contradictory evidence.
Red was Katarina is the only logical conclusion that fills in all the holes. I suggest watching the entire series again knowing from the beginning that Red is Katarina. That she used Reds identity to not only be this untouchable figure and have the power to protect Liz, but also to not make Liz think she shot her father when she was a child. Thats also why the memory was erased. Go into the series again Not thinking Red is, but KNOWING Red is Katarina. You'd be surprised how all the clues just jump out at you.
Red and Katrina both admitted to wiping her memory
OMG seriously Because he said he wasn't an abusive father/husband. If the Katarina theory is true he would be a pretty piss poor spy if he just came out and said he was once a woman don't you think? You think that if he was Katarina it is likely that he would hide the fact that he used to be a women? Seriously grasping on the most inconsequential information possible (the use of pronouns that would obviously be obfuscated). There are several scenes in episode 8x21 where Katarina is put in place of Reddington when he was having flash backs to things in the past. They are literally sharing the same memory/brain. It takes being familiar enough with the series to remember these scenes from previous episodes, but if you go back and compare these scenes it is irrefutable proof that the current Reddington was Katarina
What about the first season ....the first season has a lot of evidence against the redarina theory ....red saying he wants to sleep like he did when he was a boy ...the 20 years or more people knew him supposedly as who he was synchronized with Lizzy's childhood or birth ....there are many many points which would be really contradictory if he was Katarina
@@obaidaserdar1780
Yeah imagine a spy covering up his pronouns. That isn't "evidence" against the redarina theory it is only evidence that He hasn't just come out and blown his cover. It is a seriously bad argument.
He was gone a long time before he returned and the show addressed whatever changes might of been in his appearance stating that people assumed he had plastic surgery while on the run. They already answered this establishing how any imposter could pass as Redman. Again it is a bad argument because this would be true for any imposter that went through the plastic surgery to become Reddington.
No there aren't really any points that contradict the theory. There are just far reaching justifications that ignore painfully obvious answers.
Also it isn't even a theory anymore 8x21 provided indisputable proof of the redarina theory. Different characters can't be in the same places, doing the same things, at the same time. While this reveal was subtle it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt.
@@bverji how about the judge episode ....the admiral who was Raymond partner in school who has identified him ... come on
@@bverji could it be that the show creators changed their mind in season 8 I don't think so ....but it could be ....also as a doctor I would like to believe such a change is very inaccurate
@@obaidaserdar1780
The admiral knew he was Redington because Redding was a known criminal, and/or because he looked enough like Redington to pass as him 30+ years later (which is the point of the plastic surgery). Again this is a poor argument because it applies to anyone that would be Redington. It is the exact same argument you made before, using a different example, that doesn't mean what you think it means and is obviously flawed because if it did prove Kat was not Red it would also prove any imposter is not Red, which we know he IS an imposter. Your argument about him looking familiar would be inconsistent with whoever the imposter is. The fact you can't make that association yourself, after having it explained to you, discredits your ability to apply critical thinking to the show.
They didn't change anything the show had always led up to Redrina. Clues existed that Red=Kat since the first episode. By mid-way season 4 it was so obvious that they had start creating red herrings to draw away from the theory (red herrings the show later did away with). It is literally the only theory to be supported by the show throughout its run. It hasn't even been subtle. Trying to claim they shoehorned it in is simply not true.
1. The show was going to do Red = Katarina.
2. They dithered on this because they wanted to expand the scope of the show for more seasons.
3. Eventually they came to realize that they CANNOT do the Red = Katarina because James Spader is a white male actor and not a trans actor so they'd get a ton of backlash.
4. They realized they are screwed and are hoping no one notices they are forced to backtrack due to this.
When the show started, they thought they could sell the trans idea and potentially reap the benefits of being the first show to go there with a lead like Spader. Then the issue became a political lightning rod for the culture wars, and that made them chicken out of the idea. The writer all but confirmed the theory at the end of season 8 when he departed the show, but let it lay in the realm of plausible deniability, letting instead the viewer see what they want to see in it. This is indeed likely this is how it all shaped up progressively.
Actually they started off not doing Red = Katarina, first 3 season events and dialogue makes that impossible. THEN they wanted to do it but opted out of it last minute.
That kinda makes the confusing make more sense. I think there's too many reference/connections to Red being Katarina to ignore. Honestly. Who knows.
For me. I'm just going to believe he's the real Reddington and Liz dad.
Red for her hair duh. And for Reddington. It’s a hint no one noticed unless you know what’s up.
or for being a russian ;)
There's also the theory that red is the Avatar of katarina like how liz used an avatar to speak through her to other people. It explains a lot and there are clues about brainwashing and implanting false memories changing faces throughout the show. Katarina said she created and reanimated red. What better way than handpicking an avatar ripe for brainwashing?
Or you could just follow the actual clues and believe the answer the show and staff have given.
There is a high chance that Red is Katarina after the sex change. Why? Because there are lots of clues throughout the show that shows that Red is not what we see but something more. There are lot of scenes if you pay attention that when someone pokes, touches or looks at Red's space between his legs they don't find something that suppose to be there. Plus trans people exist and well women after changing their sex can also build up their muscles and gain weight and mass. So theoretically Red could be Katarina and I will stick my guns and say that I am confident that Red is Katarina or a woman that is related in some way to Liz and who transitioned into becoming a man to protect real Red's legacy and his daughter.
Tell me just one moment exactly when this happened. Someone to look between his legs and to be very surprised, that there is nothing manly 😂? Just one...ONE!
@@vencislavgynev8282 I believe there was an episode where he was kidnapped by some drug addicted/low ranking criminals and one of them was a woman and she was searching him and she was the one to point out to the viewers that there is nothing there between his legs. But most of us could perceive it at just a small stupid comment but if my theory is correct then there are more episodes where such small details have been shown. Anyways I hope you have an amazing day and have even better weekend!
@@dragonwarden93
So you thing it was not a metaphoric, but in real meaning " there is nothing..."?
@@vencislavgynev8282 Indeed, we can only see for sure when they finally reveal the identity of the character. It should be at the start or end of the last arc of the show which if I am not mistaken should start tonight!
That's why he protected Liz no matter how many times she called him a monster
What if Reddington was a Robot 😂
Created by Katarina
its was pretty much spelled out at the end of season 8 that current red is katarina… and i am pretty sure that was the whole intension from beginning. but they kinda tip their hand too much at end of season 8. it became bit too obvious, and now writers might change it, but also try to confuse audience to hide true intensions. idk them killing liz was due to actress leaving or their intension all along, but if it was their intension it would be pretty stupid because the whole point of blacklist was because of liz and whole point of figuring out who red real is also whole point of liz obsession. pretty much anyone to care enough to know who red really is they are all gone. anyway if they add anyone new for who red real is at this point it is just bad writing, and no point to discuss who red real is anymore story wise. i hope season 10 is the last season and end… dragging this will only ruin the show.
I agree that doesn't make sense
Dembe gave her the letter before she went to kill Red. She couldn't kill him. Big omission there.
I hate the redarina theory so much. Raymond is a MAN. He has had romantic relationships with women snd slept with many women, something which is impossible to have as a transman. I rlly hope this isn't the theory they go for
You are wrong. Even without the heightened science in The Blacklist universe transmen that have phalloplasty can have intercourse.
Why exactly is it impossible? The last girlfriend looks lesbian enough too. But I don't think you can counter the redarina theory because you don't like the idea of him being with women
Red even said himself that he has had sexual relationships with both women AND men. That particular surgery might not yet be possible in the real world, but this is television. They do tons of stuff that isn't possible yet.
“Thats not possible!” You say about the show where men get uteruses implanted and can grow full babies 😂
Red never said that
The show runners never planned on revealing Reds true identity.
I quit watching after season 7 because I knew it wes a scam.
They treated the loyal viewers like idiots.
One reason to think the theory is impossible is Bc when old katarina(fake katarina) is first introduced Raymond calls her katarina and kisses her (they were alone) y wud he do that if he was in fact katarina and the only connection he had to the fake was supply her with money and resources to survive. On the flip side the whole episode abt camp may shows only katarina and the entire thing was just a flashback Raymond/katarina was having. Also in one of the earlier seasons I think when Alexander Kirk comes into play Raymond and Elizabeth’s dna matched so even tho he had surgery to look like the real reddington he couldn’t have taken his dna which wud be the only way to match with Elizabeth unless…he is katarina in which case obviously they share dna
It was later confirmed that Red knew she was not the real Katarina. So, obviously her called her Katarina because that was what she was currently going by.
The fact that Katarina was the only one at camp may and was a flash back for Raymond/katarina is actually pretty strong proof that Red was Katarina. It is also impossible that he was there given the time line. It would have been after the real red died and before the fake Red had the plastic surgery.
The DNA only shoed paternity...meaning that Red was Liz's parent. That DNA test didn't confirm Reds identity or gender.
@@bverji Blood tests do show gender though. Ever heard of XY chromosome and XX chromosome?
@@spirittammyk I think you mean DNA tests. That isn't how DNA tests work though. They need a warrant to receive genetic information (they can match DNA without a warrant) So, someone would have to suspect Red of being a woman and specifically get a warrant to do a DNA gender test.
The only two DNA tests done was not done on imposter Red but the real Redington. The first, on blood from an old shirt to match paternity, This confirmed that the real Redington was Liz's father. The second DNA test done on the bones of the real Redington to confirm that he was dead.
Imposter Red has never received a DNA test.
@@bverjiwasn't the blood from the real Red thou?
@@mr.p215 Yes, I make that point in my next post. I was arguing that it wouldn't make sense even if it was the imposter Red because there were and still are people so delusional to think he IS the real RED.
Katarina is Red, there are so many clues that indicates so
I'm in the process of watching the entire series. I'm at season 4, episode 6. All this jabbering about Red's sex change is nonsensical to me. A tad too far down a rabid rabbit hole for me. It was unfortunate how Elizabeth pulled a Lazurus in season 3.
WTF is the matter with you all. Red is Liz's Mother. That's it. Look at Red's demeanour. Red has a bent towards details such as clothes, food, painting, young children (in a Platonic sense), etc. Red has a strong nurturing urge, etc. Although these attributed do also apply to men, on a spectrum of possibilities, there is a skewer toward female attributes. I'd be disappointed if Red was not Liz's mother ... but I'd accept that Red is Liz's OLDER brother.
Red is Elizabeth's son. change my mind.
This is really grasping at straws when a Katarina-Reddington could have said he wasn't an abusive father/husband because he was never a father/husband but a mother/wife in the first place. This isn't telling us anything conclusive about the Rederina theory, any which way.
Its a tv show. Come on
Idk where this channel got all its info from but I’ve been watching since before the theory was named mommy theory n I’ve finished the show n the idea isn’t this complicated. Katarina is Raymond. Raymond is katarina. It isn’t a split personality or anything like that.
How would you describe Red’s love for Liv is it a mother’s love or a father’s love ?
Unfortunately, the rederina theory is confirmed officially by staff. It’s a rather lazy and convenient resolution but it is what it is
I've noticed how the narrator said the redarina theory different
Red was is and always be a man
I am more inclined to think is a brother of the real reddingtong, as in season one when Liz asked him why his interest, he replied because your father.
You mean Megan Boone? Not Moore
So basically it wasn't debunked. It's just the new writer who fucked up the original plot
Why do you keep saying redarena like that
Other than ORR he could be Ilya..while that guy they showed isn’t Ilya or why not the bald guy Katarina sent back at the night of fire to get the fulcrum? What I’m sure of is: HE’S A MAN.
\
Or you could actual use the information presented in the rather than creating fan fiction. The show is over you can't just insert people that were never introduced to the story. If you are going to do that you can make any story mean just about anything because you a literally re-writing it.
There's one thing people conveniently forgot, sex change doesn't change chromosomes, and the dna test would have shown that.
Not how DNA tests work. They don't just give you a list of characteristics. They only show what is tested for. The DNA test you are talking about tests paternity it would not give gender. The DNA for the test was also from the real Redington, not the current imposter.
I was not aware of this theory. I am so sorry I watched this video 😳
This theory to me sounds outrageous how could he be a woman when they show pictures of Raymond from 30 years ago atleast Elizabeth wouldn’t have even been born then
It was after those pictures of Redington, Liz was about 4. I don't see why it is outrageous...transition surgery is a thing, and the entire premise of The Blacklist is that there is advance science available to the under ground.
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can watch the show and not come away with the clear answer that Red is Katarina. Even leaving aside that episode 8.21 just about explicitly spells it all out for us, there are clues peppered throughout almost the entire series. If we assume that the writers themselves didn't always have this in mind, which is a safe assumption, and you discount a lot of the evidence as coincidence, there's just too much evidence that is obviously written in that does point this way. There is no one else Red could be but Katarina.
I wish you would do an updated video now the show has ended.
Didnt Agnes Said in Their Last call in the Last episode, When they talk about andy and the school project that he is like a mother, because he cares so much?!?! And then he smiled and was like: yeah, somehow i always was?!
So could he be katharina?
Thats not what was said at all... Agnes: Pinky youre being such a mom, Raymond: yeah, i guess i just cant help it
I have never bought into red being Katerina it's a stupid theory. Also James spader was / is a genius I loved him as Reddington
It has been confirmed by several staff member, including Spader.
woke writing that came around the years of 2018 to 2020
Trotzdem bleibt die Frage welche Familie? Welches Mädchen war da? Glaube kaum das Katharina noch eine Familie hatte, wie auch wenn sie kein richtiger Mann ist. In Staffel 1 beschäftigt Red sehr was mit seiner Familie passiert ist. Er erzählte Madeline Pratt auch von dem Winter und das war absolut ehrlich was er sagt. Das passt nicht zu dem Rest. Er sagte es liegt über 20 Jahre her. Das passt alles nicht. Auch Naomi weiß wer er ist.
If red is katarina… how would red and anne had sex?? They did the scissors??
Even without the hyper science of the Blacklist given enough money and time phalloplasty can function for sex.
This is my biggest issue with this theory. The medical knowledge and science just isn't there to make a woman into a man or vice versa. It would basically be magic.
@@Teadrinker-zy1yp
The entire show is built on the premise of heightened science. That is most of what the Blacklist is. It was also establish in the episode Djinn that this is possible. The Blacklist is a low-key science fiction show.
@@Teadrinker-zy1yp
BTW one of the writers have now confirmed that red was katarina.
@bverji I see you comment it everywhere, give us source too
There is NO WAY IN HELLLLLL Reddington is not Katarina Rostova!!!! Get freakin real comin on lol
True
Katarina is Red, she created the mythology of the character then became him with plastic surgery after the real Red died. The only thing that makes sense is Red being Katarina, anything else is just not logical.
What you wrote makes no sense .. a plastic surgeon wont change your gender..plus RED is a man.
The lady in this video is not Katarina rushed over and she even says it try again
I just prefer red to be liz father more than her mother bc I like the way he protects her and his humor if this theory were true the way I fell feel about his personality or character would totally change for me it in a negative way because
Red wouldn't be red but instead a female. For me it feels like making a entirely new show but this time instead of being a male it's a women and the theory makes since but it just doesn't feel right for some reason. And it doesn't make since because eboth red and Katerina have been in the show and how can red become Katerina when Katerina is already a character in the show. They have talked to each other is what I am trying to say I just want him to be liz father also I hoped that Liz was alive since the beginning I wanted ressler and her to end up together
Red is not Red. That has been beaten to death in the show. Redington's bones were dug up, the show has confirmed he is dead many times from many sources. The show has directly confirmed Red is an imposter many times over. There where 4 years of plot where he killed and risked his entire empire to hide his identity. Wouldn't make much sense to hide his real identity if he was in fact himself. The real Redington also hid the fulcrum and the imposter Red didn't know where it was.
As for Red being male not female changing the show...the entire undercurrent of the show is about identity. What makes someone who they are. The very first episode Red says "Everything about me is a lie." taken literally that would include gender. If you are a top tier spy trained to take on new personas to the point that you self-delude yourself. You change your physical appearance, erase certain memoirs you have, under go psychological reprogramming and then live your life as a completely different person for 30 years...what is your identity? Are you who you were? Are you who you pretend to be? Are you something new, a mixture of both? That is the underlying premise of the show.
@@bverjiI will say to you one thing - DNA. 😂😂😂
Let accept theoretically, that Katarina had access to the best top tier plastic surgery doctors, best medical and hormonal treatment, that only the richest and most powerful people could. With all that you can change your face, muscle mass and density, bones density and size, maybe the whole body composition( bone structure, muscle and tissue composition), maybe you can change your eyes, fingerprints and teeth/dental structure and everything about you lookness and appearance. Let accept, that you can change your all mannerism and behavior. It's called acting and behavior psychology. With everything said i can agree, but with one can not. This thing is how i said in the beginning, your own DNA. According to the science soon will be possible to do that to unborn babies, to embryos, but to fully grown adult human being. It is totally different thing, it's impossible. Even after hundreds years, just not possible. So i am now to my main point. How he can pass for biological male, if he was born biological female??? One DNA tests can debunk all that Katarina theory. They did him tests and he passed as biological male, but not as real Red, which can not be possible, if he was born female😂! Just HUGE PLOTHOLE...HUGE!!! I don't remember good, but maybe i am wrong about the tests. But even they did not do to him DNA test, again HUGE PLOTHOLE. 😂 To prove someone is not, who he is, just do to him couple of tests, the superior one is the DNA test. Some how you can pass others, but DNA test you CAN NOT! And since the real Red was ex Navi and ex CIA agent, the agencies probably have database with his DNA markers, blood samples, eye pictures( eye scanning), fingerprints, dental records and more. This is the easiest way to prove someone is not a person like a real Red. If they say they don't have this database - it is a big plothole, it is false! To not do to him many different teast, using this database - even BIGGER plothole😂! And to be able to pass the DNA test( to be born a woman and successfully pass as man😂😂😂) - A HUGE PLOTHOLE🤣🤣🤣!!! So anyway if the writers make the theory canon, it will be the stupidest and the biggest fanserving writing in the cinema history. Just for milking the fanbase to the maximum.
@@vencislavgynev8282 The DNA tests didn't identify him as male. That is not how DNA tests work, particularly government tests. The DNA test was a paternity test it only identifies if they are a parent not the gender or other information of the subject. DNA tests take warrants and can only test for what is in the warrant. It doesn't give you a long list of genetic characteristics. In the show no one that has done a test has any reason to suspect Red is genetically female so there would be no reason to test for it. The idea that the DNA identified Red as male is false and based on ignorance of how DNA tests are done. Also all the DNA test's are from the real Redington, not the imposter Red, so it wouldn't prove who imposter Red is anyway.
As for DNA markers, blood samples, we know that the was not available to the FBI because in the first episode when speaking of identifying Red they did not mention doing a DNA test. This is further supported by the fact they had to acquire DNA from alternate source to test Red with. Also DNA databases didn't exist until decades after Red left the military. Eye pictures( eye scanning) not something that is generally taken particularly 40 years ago. Dental is easy enough to replicate and can change dramatically over 40 years. Finger print prosthetics and transplants already exist and would be well with in the realm of the heightened science of the Blacklist Universe. It isn't a plot hole, you are just making assumptions that are false.
Also Red isn't Redington. This has been beaten to death, and to your point on DNA tests Cooper provides an old shirt that is used to compare to the bones in season 5 and confirm that RED is in fact dead, but again such tests only confirm identity they don't give a list of characteristics about the subject. It is beyond any possible explanation that doesn't contradict the story many times over that Red is anything but an imposter. SO, even if any of your explanations did have merit (which they don't) it would mean the whole show is a plot hole, but the real answer is that you are just making a ton of assumptions not confirmed by the show and actually contradicted by reality.
@@bverji
So if the test ( which was did to Red )only show is someone is parent or not. Remember me what was the result?
@@vencislavgynev8282 It showed that the real Redington's was Liz's parent. The blood for the DNA test was in CODIS by this point (assumingly added because of the paternity test done with the shirt) but that has never been compared to the fake Redington's (Red's) DNA. That DNA from the original Redington was later used to confirm that the bones where the real Redington's
REDARINA HAS BEEN CONFIRMED!!!!
Season 8:22 22min to 25 min has all the answers
The Redarina theory is ridiculous. So Katerina had a sex change and became a ladies' man? What kind of Dr did her work to give her a totally different build from a tall slim red head to a stocky balding man? Nope, not buying it. Red also knew exactly who Jennifer was. Also when Red tracked down the woman posing as Katerina. When he approached her he called out the name Katerina. Why would he do this if he/she was Katerina? See, stupid! I thought he was most likely the real Red and survived the gunshot and house fire. They did show him badly burned on his back. But that would lead to make you wonder who was in the suit case? Would have been nice to have a definitive answer at the end. Also this video is wrong. Liz read the letter before Red was dead. She knew who she was. If Red was her mother there is absolutely no way in hell Liz would ever even consider shooting her mother. Instead she said " I don't think I can do this" As she pointed the gun at Red. Liz would have confronted and embraced her mother/Red long before she showed up to shoot him/her. See. Stupid. The largest hole in Liz's life was not having a mother and wondering why she was abandoned. Redarina? Stupid theory.
Why did you say Redarina like that😂😂
Theres so much context not addressed in this its so inaccurate. Clearly someone who doesnt watch the show made this
People who deny that red is kathetine should watch all 9 seasons again
But there were 10 seasons.
If you think Red is the real Raymond Reddington still then I don't know what to say to you. The question is why will he kill people who discovered his identity if his identity is Reddington which everybody knows. Why?
This means he is not the real Raymond Reddington.
And those people also saying maybe it's a twin brother or a cousin of the real Reddington, that's also crazy. How come we've watched a show up to season 9 with almost 200 episodes and no one has ever mentioned you. How?
Although I don't like the idea of transgending and don't like transgenders but If Red doesn't turn out to be Katarina, I will be very disappointed. After all these sacrifices and help, who would do all these if not a parent.
And those saying, they want red to be the real Reddington (Liz's father), do you know why they revealed that Katarina got burned in the fire season 8 episode 21, it was to debunk the fact that Red is not the real Reddington because from the start of the series, people were saying he is the real Reddington because of the burns on his back. They made it possible so that people can't use that to debunk the fact that Red is Katarina.
I know what do they have to do to prove the real Reddington is dead. They have beat that horse to death. You have to be completely delusional to not accept that the current Reddington is an imposter.
'i dont like transgenders' jeez buddy
Red is a man not a woman. What is wrong with people lmao
@@coryburns4309 Red is a man not a woman
@@coryburns4309 What part of men are not women do you not understand? How old are you? Are you just troilling me kid?
@@robertpreston2220i don’t think it should be allowed to change gender but it is allowed in many country’s and it’s a fictional story anyway. Red = Katarina I don’t like it either but it’s the truth and there’s a lot of evidence for it trough out the serie
@@robertpreston2220 bro acts like changing gender would be the craziest thing in this series lmfaooo😂
@@jacesr7288 its not possible kid
WOW!!! Does anyone get a head ache??? From the beginning there has never been a rederina. It's more entertaining without the tinfoil hat wackyness.
?
Lmao is katarina then how does Jennifer not know that her father looks completely different 😂such a major plot hole no one talks about. Obviously she would remember what her dad looked like when she was young and then now they’re older her dad looks like a completely different person ? 😂am I the only one who thought this ?
uhhh you’ve seen the whole show. so you can see in the truth reveal that he clearly looks very different as a young man as compared to now. also, reminder, jennifer hasn’t known her dad since she was a child and he left that christmas eve. there’s been an infinite number of people throughout history who have met a parent or relative they only knew when they were young and years later don’t recognize. bc the other person and you have drastically changed, ofc she’s not gonna recognize the man.
This would be true for anyone who is the imposter Red. Your argument disproves itself because your premise is obviously flawed...anyone would have the same problem.
I can see how some people would think Raymond is Katarina - a lot of things fit logically but ultimately it isn't plausible. He was unconscious in a French hospital, being tended by nurses and doctors, under close observation at the 'Post Office' in the cage, was in prison, where induction would include a thorough physical examination and he was always surrounded by a variety of people and had a physical relationship with the woman in Kansas - you would think someone would have noticed.
Also, one thing wrong with the flashbacks theory is that Katarina appears in the flashback. When you remember something in your past, you, as the observer don't appear. If it had been with no one in it, from Katarina's viewpoint, I would have bought it.
Sorry, I just don't buy it.
Frankly, the main reason to watch this show was James Spader's portrayal of Raymond Reddington.
You are making a ton of assumptions not confirmed by the show based on ignorance of how medicine procedures actually work. As for your explanation about flash backs that is ridiculously.
How memory works and what a flashback is are not anywhere near the same thing. How many flashbacks in entertainment are usually done from first person perspective like none of them. You are trying to force a standard that is not a standard of how flashbacks are betrayed in any story. It underscores the absurd lengths you are willing to go to force the interpretation you want regardless of facts and common sense.
@@bverji You seem to desperately want it to be true.
@@ianboard544
No, just don't like it when people lie. It is so obvious that Red is Katarina it is delusional to conclude anything else. You have all the right to be delusional, but if you are going to come onto a public forum and try to convince others of misinformation than you shouldn't be surprised there is some push back.
@@bverji Why on earth do you conclude that I'm lying? I don't mind pushback at all - but then push back against specific points I raised instead of name-calling.
@@ianboard544 I think you are lying because I give you credit of having basic critical thinking skills. Thus your refusal to use them is willful. You are smart enough to know you are not applying your argument about flashbacks, for example, in a way consistence with how flashbacks are ever done. That makes it a lie assuming you have the most basic critical thinking skills.
I also never called you a name...another lie.
In the house fire only 2 ppl got burned both Red that died and Kat that did not. In the first season we see Raymond taking his shirt off and see his back is all burned up. He has to be Katarina
That is not true. In 8x21 you see Red dying from the gun shot in the car before anyone get's burned. Then Liz runs back into the house for the stuffed animal and Katarina goes in after her. Liz then remembers that Katarina was burned and says "you were burned" and Katarina replies "we both were." Not only was Katarina burned, but no one else is confirmed to have been burned, but Katarina and Liz.
This Redarina theory is kinda nonsense and disappointing.
Yeah, I hope it isn't true.
No it makes very much sense. Go look up more abt it. You'll see that it's the best outcome
It’s all but confirmed. It was a great mystery throughout the show. One of the best show mysteries in history tbh.
@@N.i.E.M.O why not? It’s a great ending to the mystery.
@@OmniZGG One of the writers has confirmed it was true.
Didn't James Spader say in an interview that Red is not Katarina?
NO.
I'm late on this debate, but here is my 2 cents. Somehow there is sophisticated enough surgery to alter height, bone density, muscle mass, pelvic structure, etc. to turn a woman into a person presenting as a man, including creation of a functioning phallus so realistic that no one can tell the difference, without leaving any telltale scaring, but you can't remove some burn scars???
You are putting way to much realism (and assumptions that are never addressed) on a show that has pregnant men, memory modification, DNA masking and even an episode where they do the same thing in reverse a man "becoming" a woman. You are applying a highly inconsistent standard of disbelief.
@@bverji I recently saw the men becoming pregnant episode. It was idiotic, but not every episode on a tv show is a homerun. However, who Reddington is seems to be a central theme of the show, not a one-off bad episode and should be held to a higher standard. Don't remember the other two episodes you mentioned, so I either haven't seen them yet or more likely those plots were so ridiculous that I focused on other aspects of the show. There are enough good and even great episodes I can overlook the stinkers, but not a poorly written central theme.
@@theothernatfife5004 You are just making excuses. The point is that the entire basis of the show is not based on reality it is based on the concept of a heightened reality where things like that are possible. Removing that part of the well-established setting and genre while trying to pretend it isn't actually part of the setting and genre so that you can try and force a conclusion is nonsensical. It is like saying that Clark Kent can't be Superman because Superman's powers can't be real, while you ignore all the rest of the superpowered people in the genre. Your argument is literally the antithesis of what storytelling is all about and obviously so. You are selectively choosing what is acceptable pseudo-science to believe not based on the criteria of the show. but specifically, so you can re-write the show to mean what you want it to mean.
as hard as I try I can no longer follow😅🫨😵💫