One thing I forgot to mention in the video is how hard it is to trinket this hero without broken key. You either have to focus on beast or human mode, and his CC set is a mess with that set bonus.
I sometimes use the Osmand chain with broken key, extra accuracy and crit on bile and manacles can be great but I don't think I've ever used the whole set. One half of it becomes useless if you wanna get use out of the set bonus of the big damage boost that he can capitalise on in human form rank 1, kinda shame really
My favorite moment in this game: Siren charms my transformed abomination “OH NO!” Makes him unstransform “No more damage ig…” Realise he is stuck infront and can only absolution,basicaly healing him back to full health for me while leper kills her. Outstanding move
Honestly, I love the Abomination for Human side alone- call it cringe but with Broken Key and Padlock of Transference he can stun most enemies twice in a row, or consistently stun stronger enemies. Additionally, in the Endless Meth Farmer Raid, the bile will always kill Crystalline Aberrations, so he can be worked into a team with those combined traits.
Why not simply take a PD and stun 2 things? Get stronger blights? Not get locked with a bad hero in the roster and start a run with an unoptimal comp? Get a bleed/blight removal on demand. I think that this is so inefficient, it's like people saying Arba is not utter trash because it can side heal disregarding the fact that if you actually had a good hero on your team, you wouldn't need that heal in the 1st place.
@@AlexanderBC42 Good argument but the Abomination works well with my group better. Because I throw in two Highwaymen (I purposefully let one have both luminous and slowdraw so he always goes after the 1st in combat) to dance around with Riposte, critical hits are so common that there's almost never two people in the back. Blinding Gas has only 3 per combat, meaning in Endless Harvest you could use it, but then have to switch it out. Additionally, the Abomination has better stun chance. The PD, with ideal stun trinkets attached, has 170% chance and +10 accuracy, but only 160% blight. Abom with ideal stun trinkets attached has 185% chance and +15 accuracy, and still only 160% blight, which is clearly better if you're going for a stun character. She has the benefit of better healing (Number-wise no, but it does cure bleed/blight and can target others) and stronger blight, but overall, not a good enough healer. I think that Vestal-Abomination-Highwayman-Highwayman is a super strong team, especially since you can attach the busted Crimson Court Trinkets and switch them around at rests for almost guaranteed double-virtue.
@@somebodyalive6131 you can fix limited uses for all moves by making the character snort space meth, so you could do it to keep using blinding gas. Probably not worth it in most cases since PD doesn't benefit much from the bonus damage it gives you and you take stress each time you use it. As for the farmstead team, it has some weaknesses, like not having any armor piercing which is great in the farmstead due to the random encounters. Also, you can use abom in rank 2 and have him be transformed and constantly spamming rake while a jester mashes ballad and stress heals when needed. My favourite abom comp is Vestal-Jester-Abomination-Leper. You have vestal for heals and stuns, jester for battle ballad and to keep abom from getting afflicted, abom spams rake and leper mostly uses chop/hew to work with abom on destroying the front.
@@chip2508 We're talking about Endless Harvest, so isn't using lots of space meth completely defeating the purpose in the first place? I'd say that Abomination has something over Blinding Gas- he has more freedom in targeting that one space he strikes, and has a higher stun chance (A full human build would at least) and damage. For example, if there's a single space missing, for example Blight or a Crit, then that Blinding Gas is barely getting its value. Vestal-Jester-Abomination-Leper sounds good, as it has solid DPS against the front two and good stress heal and heal, but the benefit of Vestal-Abomination-Highwayman-Highwayman is that a lot of enemies will target the front 2. So by spending every second turn for Duelist's Advance, you're turning their turn into your own turn like a Yu-gi-oh player, as well as strong DPS and healing.
With Stress being the biggest killer in the game, I feel like Abomination's monster form is too weak for the damage it inflicts on you. Either make it stronger or lower the penalty on transformation (or buff the stress heal when he returns back to human)
For the amount of stress it causes, abomination's monster form needs to be actually monstrous in power. Like if he transformed into a Leper for example that would actually be better ngl.
There's a mod that does exactly this and it's great. Fairly certain it nerfs manacles stun chance to 120% but it is usable from rank 1. Slam is usable from rank 4 and it is a guard break + enemy knock back 2. It's something like "circusy abomination"
I like using abom, but I also think he could be called the worst, not by effectiveness, but by how small part of his kit dominates his gameplay (pretty much just padlock of transferrence + broken key and manacles spam). while being a speedy stunner is good, it's pretty much what he'll be doing 90% of the time. sure, he can blight or transform for frontal damage, but those have a lot of downsides and limitations, and other heroes can do those things better most of the time. So not bad by effectiveness, but badly designed / balanced within his own trinkets and moveset.
It is sad that he really only has a single strategy to be made efficient, which is Manacles with the stun trinkets equipped, but in the end, most characters do have a single meta that works better than others. I mean, Bounty Hunter is almost always going to be using Collect Bounty for damage of a Leper, but with high speed, dodge, and crit, the Vestal will almost always be doing strong heals, the Leper will always be using his extra prot and/or revenge and then his godly swings, etc
Abomb as a class was, as far as I know, introduced thanks to a patreon donator of the Lord Tier. Basically someone's inserted creation into the delicately crafted world of Darkest Dungeon.
This all may be true, but he's still my favorite character because you can use camp skills + CC + trinkets + quirks + the damage buff from beast form to get him to truly insane levels of raw damage.
Adding to that, he has the second (2nd) highest base damage of all max lvl heroes and his crit buff is 20% dmg. The damage is staggering and the crit chance for the beast skills gives you the buff quite fast.
I really like themed parties, and i use them for specific areas. Blight party for the cove: - shield breaker - abomination - plague doctor - grave robber Bleed party for the Weald: ( High bleed stacking and aoe damage, like the blight party ) - Flagellant - Hellion - Jester - Houndmaster Light party for the ruins: (3 heroes using light skills saves up on torches, and ruins gives more torches, so i save money) - crusader - vestal - leper - arbalest Money party for warrens: ( More food here saves money plus antiquarian, party synergy with guard + ripostes and buff stacking ) - mace guy - highway -occultist - antiquarian Mark party: ( Can be used anywhere, so it's good when a specific party is down ) - bounty hunter - Houndmaster - marksman And i forgot the last one
A nice way to balance his monster form would be to make him aways stress heal a random party member but himself by 3 every time he deals a killing blow. Would make it viable as a damage dealer in monster form and would make sense in a lore way. "Denis just transformed into a hideous monster? Guess i'll get a little stressed. Oh, hi's still sane and beating up the real treats? Guess i'll get a little less stressed now."
Well, his weaknesses may be mechanical, but you forgot his greatest strength: His aesthetics and theme are just SO FREAKING COOL. Okay, maybe the fact that coolness outweighs effectiveness IMO is why I suck at this game. :P
@@RookieREX So far gotten further than I had before. Shuffles videos helped a lot (I took advice from bad sources, apparently). I'm getting there, but slowly.
@@Syurtpiutha hey, i havn't beaten the game yet either try to avoid spoilers better than me and slowly but surly is perhaps one of the better ways to progress in this game
I get the feeling that you glossed over the absurd stat buffs that Abom gets by transforming. Abom is the single best standalone source of single target damage on turn 1 by a large margin, with unmodified damage output comparable a Leper with +10 acc if Leper could hit rank 3, or Houndmaster/Arbalest if they had guaranteed Mark setup from another hero with absurd speed and accuracy, and Abom acts at 9 speed on turn 1 compared to Houndmaster's 7, Arbalest's 5, and Leper's 4. Abom gets an additional 4 bonus speed from transforming the following turn, so by transforming on turn 1 you can realistically kill absurdly fast stress damage dealers in rank 3 that would otherwise almost always get to act before your party on turn 2. It is easy to identify human Abom as inferior to other heroes with stuns and damaging abilities, but beast mode is appropriately powerful on teams that are built to handle stress. Dropping a nuclear missile on ranks 1 through 3 often outvalues Abom's predictable stress cleave on teams with Jester, Houndmaster, and even Crusader that can stall with stress skills during fights and clean up with broken camp skills when necessary, and a below average controlling hero is good enough to function in the other fights. I feel like Padlock of Transference is a trap, because it puts you in the mindset of thinking "Abom needs to be in human form to get the full value of this trinket, but is still worse than other heroes that stun and damage better" when beast mode is outstandingly strong. I consider the Leper to be the worst hero in the game, and I feel many of the Abomination's weaknesses addressed in the video are even more applicable to Leper: Leper has to hog accuracy trinkets to leverage his raw damage; Leper doesn't have a stun at all, and instead has two very narrow utility moves that are restricted to rank 1; Leper cannot reach rank 3-4 except with Intimidate, which is a a very low tempo damage/debuff move; Leper is a fish out of water in both ranks 3 and 4. In my experience, it is much easier and more rewarding to build around Abom's weaknesses than Leper's.
I didn't fully elaborate my thoughts on the Leper. I was primarily drawing comparisons to the weaknesses that Shuffle said were holding back Abomination and how I thought those same weaknesses were exemplified by the Leper. I believe that Leper is a B tier hero in a game where every hero is exceptionally versatile and/or completely break the things they're best at. There is absolutely no better hero for killing things that are directly in front of them cleanly without setup than Leper, and killing things quickly is the most important part of leaving fights with high health and low stress. Absurd damage, self-care, a handful of niche combat skills that solve miscellaneous problems, and great camping skills are more than enough to make him a functional and powerful character. The reason I think Leper is the worst hero is because other heroes can do comparable damage with better target selection if they have help, and Leper is worse when out of position than any other hero since he cannot contribute to damaging or controlling enemies in positions 3 or 4, he can only move himself forward one position at a time, and the scarcity of heroes which can move themselves backwards while progressing a fight in order to move Leper to the front means there is very little you can do to mitigate this downside besides giving him a move resist trinket and entirely avoiding fights that shuffle your entire party. Intimidate is the single best stealth-removing ability to use against damage-dealing enemies (hook pig, sword skeleton, and blunderbuss brigand). Its low damage also makes it a good damaging skill for abusing the reinforcements timer. However, it is not worth using for crowd control alone because the amount of versatile heroes that can stun or debuff accuracy in ranks 3+ instead (e.g. Abomination, Antiquarian, Arbalest, Bounty Hunter, Occultist, Plague Doctor, Vestal) means that Leper should be focusing on dealing damage. Beyond preventing raw damage, stuns and accuracy reduction also prevent stress, bleed, blight, debuffs, stuns, move skills, and diseases, which makes a damage reduction debuff very ineffective by comparison. Chopping things to death is going to prevent more bad stuff from happening to your party than Intimidate is. Each of Leper's skills have use cases, and deciding which combination of supporting skills to take into different fights is interesting. I enjoy the character, I've run him in more dungeons than I've run Bounty Hunter and Highwayman. I just wish it was a little easier to justify running him. Honestly, if he could use Intimidate from any position I would no longer have a strong opinion on who the worst hero in the game was and I would use him all the time lmao
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted) I understand that Bone Captain and Swinetaur are heavily dependent on raw damage, and can be thoroughly neutered by Intimidate but can't be stunned consecutively. I am saying that, because the opportunity cost of Leper debuffing an ememy's damage instead of dealing Chop damage is much greater than that cost for heroes who simultaneously deal less damage than Leper and also stun (or else debuff accuracy) instead of debuffing damage, it is generally better to stun, Suppress with Arbalest, or Flash Powder with Antiquarian to prevent the effects of most dangerous enemies' attacks while Leper kills whatever is standing in front of him.
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted) I already said that Intimidate is a great move for stalling the reinforcement timer. If you're going to make assumptions about my quality of play because you failed to read what I wrote, I am no longer interested in this conversation.
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted) If you think that -33% damage for 3 turns is higher tempo than a stun, which is essentially -100% damage, stress, DoT, debuffs, and crowd control, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what tempo is. I’m getting the impression that you don’t care what I think because I use Intimidate differently than you do, or because you made up a fictional tragic backstory for me where I am catastrophically bad at Leper and don’t know how to rationally analyze mistakes and problems. If it eases your conscience, I am 43 weeks into a Stygian campaign with exactly 2 deaths, neither of which involved my level 6 Leper. Now, I would be happy to continue this conversation, but I’m not going to waste my time if you aren’t interested in what I have to say. If you genuinely want to hear from me again, explain exactly what I’m saying that you disagree with, and be open to resolving misunderstandings instead of dismissing things you don’t understand. I just want to have a civil conversation.
@@spencerbowler7287 I think the reason why Leper isn't the worst is because the fact that he can be a damage dealer and a tank at the same time. I think many people have conception that leper's best ally is Jester because he provides accuracy but that is in fact false. His best ally is actually antiquarian and that's because his buff(Revenge) gives -10 dodge penalty for massive damage boosts and accuracy. If you use withstand as well. you can mitigate damage penalty although this is rarely needed in hallway fights. His other biggest enemy is high prod enemies because... although he does higher damage than every hero, he doesn't actually do higher damage since a lot of his damage ends mitigating from prod. This is why Shieldbreaker is really good for him. Shieldbreaking has camping skill that gives +15 prod damage and for leper. that's insane buff. Leper also has huge damage variance and critical hits help reduce it. Shieldbreaker's expose weakness is really good skill for him in particular because it reduces speed and gives him more critical which basically makes his damage more consistent. She also has impale, a cleave that works well with Leper's Hew skill, so for those boss that summon a lot of mobs, he can deal with it. Antiquarian, Vestal, Leper and Shieldbreaker is what makes Leper not garbage. he becomes a unit that has perfect accuracy, high evasion, huge health pool and perfect healer to keep him alive. Another conception that leper is tricket reliant. He's reliant on surgical gloves which is uncommon artifact and warrior cap which is common artifact. Eventually you get Shrieker bottle which is just powercreep warrior cap for him. His early game resolve problems can easily be solved by putting Jester or Manatarms(Who has bellow). Trinkets just remove the tax of needing to have bellow or battle balad on him and once you can remove this tax, you can focus on survival so that he can remove the tax himself with revenge.Leper is like definition of a stat-check character. I kinda see leper as worse shieldbreaker but a better bounty hunter. in the same team i describe, you can just have 2 shieldbreakers and they'll probably do about the same. Ironically enough, leper has odd synergy with bounty hunter as bounty hunter has uppercut to flip rank 2 into 4 and leper has purge to flip rank 1 into 4. so you can flip backline and frontline in 2 moves. At the same time, you could just put 2 shieldbreakers and use Puncture but why do that when shieldbreaker can already reach rank 3-4 with pierce. Conclusively, I don't think Leper and Abomination are related. Abomination is more like hand of light vestal(Rank 2) with more conditions. Leper is more like bad shieldbreaker. Leper is not unusable, He's just outclassed by other choices.
Abomination does stall in some areas...but, he's our friend and teammate, so, we work with it. New player here; and yeah, for me, he's a dedicated mid rank unit. That said, the self heal and transforming heal does almost give a sort of tankiness to him? Certainly it would be interesting to pair him with something like the antiquarian's skill that marks and buffs allies, and maybe equip generic trinkets that help boost that role. The transform itself I've only ever used in emergencies (low health and we need to end this fight now); definitely respectably powerful, but, nothing I can't live without absent those dire situations.
I’ve always felt like Abom was pretty great cuz you can drop him into almost any comp that needs a rank 2/3 and he’ll be valuable. Also he’s like the perfect rank 2 for a team with grave robber cuz he can still do everything he wants after being moved back a rank by lunge.
And then additionally his stun is just really really consistent between his trinkets and it having a better base accuracy than Occultist along with dealing decent damage making it high tempo.
That sounds cool. I should try it out. But why the antiquarian? What's her major contribution to the team aside from her great dodge buffs to herself and her allies? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a grave robber to help blight enemies and throw knives to finish them off?
I feel like heavily reducing the stress penalty on his transformation makes the mechanic a lot less interesting, but I do believe that the reward for transforming just isn't worth the price... now I think if you wanted to fix that then making the transformed abomination a crit machine could go a long way for both his damage output and to mitigate his stress penalty in a way that's flavorful... (sort of a "I'm glad it's on our side" deal) but that would be a very dice-rolley solution in a game where you want to grasp for as much fleeting certainty as possible.
Yeah, I really don't agree, I get *much* more value out of Abomination than a good proportion of the classes. The sheer versatility of being able to spin from a powerful stunner to one of the better burst damage dealers in the game is much more valuable to me than, for example, Graverobber's limitation to intermittent bursts or Arbalest's slow rank 4 damage. The stress is a factor, but I've taken Abom into situations like Shambler fights and his output has been an absolute godsend. This isn't to say he's top tier or anything, he's certainly not as good as Flagellant or PD, but worst class in the game is strongly overselling it imo.
Wolf Parade, shuff. No Hero is an island. It's all how you support one another. Occ marks & weakens, Jester Stress heals, & the two Aboms upfront act as a Veg-O-Matic that purees anything stupid enough to fight you.
hfmmuuhh..😮💨 rather than tolerance and justification of his weaknesses, i really hope he will be re-design. 1.) Crusader [Damage Dealer, Stun, Support] 2.) Hellion....[Damage dealer, Stun, Bleeding] 3.) Shieldbreaker [Blight] He really easy to compare so-to replace, because "so many reason" like you said. Someone that consistent to use him, is either an Idealist or a Stubborn.
abom is always my number 1 stunner. At 9 spd he can deal with a target in 2 or 3. stun a 2 and then push them to 4 and there's two turns they're doing almost no damage as they stumble back to 3.
I mean, there's certainly an argument to be made that there are some major design flaws, but... I'd still rather bring along an abomination over an arbalest/musketeer the majority of the time. if having one bad position is a problem, what about having 2 equally bad positions, with no way to move back easily? the abomination may have poor damage without transforming, well, arbalest is terrible at damage without a mark. she is also terrible at attacking rank 1. if abom is overly stuck relying on 2 skills to be effective, I would argue that the only thing arbalest is genuinely good at is suppressing fire for the accuracy debuff. yes, she *can* do other things; her healing skill is not terrible (but it isn't that impressive either, and frankly I'd rather have a heal that is slightly better *now* than a heal that will get good as long as I can just spend the next 3 rounds healing the same target), her mark is disappointing against the vast majority of enemies (basically if they don't have a ton of dodge), flare is extremely situational, blindfire is a sick joke (because what you need in a game where luck will mercilessly screw you is to give luck another chance to screw you, right?)... so yeah, abomination has problems. I won't argue that. but if I had an abomination that doesn't have bad traits and an arbalest that doesn't have bad traits, I suspect I'd find far more opportunities to bring the abomination along than the arbalest. which is a shame, I really want to like arbalest. I think a few minor tweaks would help a lot. if blindfire moved you back 1 position, if her flare was either more consistent or had a higher value on the stress heal, if her heal worked better now instead of being better next round, if her mark was stronger, if she was less helpless in more positions, if her main attack ability could actually work against position 1, if her entire ability to do damage was not so heavily dependent on a mark that costs an action from someone who could be doing basically the same thing as her but better... the few things that she is "good" at take extra time to become good, whether that is waiting for her heal to build up or needing someone to mark her target when they could have just spent their action doing damage in the first place, or building up a big enough accuracy debuff on her targets that they become ineffective.
i think it would have been really cool if they made his bile from pvp his normal skill, riposte is pretty good, so it would give you a reason to actually press bile once every 2 or 3 rounds. It wouldnt even have to do much damage tbh lol Edit: Maybe a cool mechanic could be landing a riposte on a blighted enemy resets the blight timer? maybe that would be broken tho who knows.
Abom human form: stun with the occasional beast bile, needs trinkets to shine Abom beast form: high damage that's only worth in boss fights or ambushes
Ah! I have an idea. Remember the formation of: *Jester, *Jester, *Leper, *Leper We can use him by replacing the two of leper. He transform and therefore MUST! do Critical damage everytime, so he can heal stress.
If you use an Abom for stuns, doesn't that end up meaning Occultist built for stuns is not only better at that job but does more damage and brings better utility to the table?
Depends on the team. Abom is much more durable and his healing is consistent so he doesn't need much help. Occultist is a stun monster but if he needs to heal it slows him down.
Never found a good use for him personally. He's my least used character by far. Effectively he can stun and blight and even then mostly just ranks 2 and 3. The power in transform mode is not worth the stress, and even then it takes a while to ramp up. Terrible. And what do you trinket him for? Phys damage, stun or blight? Or stress reduction? Yeah, sorry abom gotta pass mate.
I don't even bother having aboms. Position locked while in human form, inferior blight (vs say, SB or PD or even GR ant Ant, the last of whom compensate with other skills), inferior stun (vs Cr, Ves, Occ, etc) and same for self heal vs leper or others, and even leper must be my second least used unit. His beast form with the best trinkets still doesn't negate party/self stress damage and lbr, damage output in beast is disappointing and position oriented /non aoe if I recall. Pass, friend.
To phrase some of your points better, due to the Abomination's trinket reliance, instead of being an incredibly flexible character having access to all his skills all the time, he becomes an incredibly inflexible one as the human and beast forms require completely different trinkets. Especially the human form, without the necessary trinkets, is simply pathetic as it's balanced around said trinkets. Moreover due to how the game as a whole is balanced around proactive play being vastly superior to reactive play, Abomination's stress penalty becomes much more pronounced. While there are amazing neutral stress mitigating trinkets, which means every class can use them, which would fit perfectly in a beast Abomination team, the opportunity cost of using those trinkets instead of others that will actually benefit the individual characters, is simply massive and the beast Abomination is simply not strong enough to warrant this cost.
I think, that it depends on difficulty. On normal difficulty the worst hero is atiquarian because you are not in rush and you dont need to get money fast so abom is worst only in bloodmoon.
Abomination is in my top 5 favorite classes, but I yield that he has very many issues. If the benefits of beast mode were worth the stress, or if they just made his transformation stress decrease with level he’d be much better. He needs much more damage in transformed mode if they aren’t going to fix his other issues.
Early on I was really impressed with abomination, I thought his beast mode must really be powerful. then I introduced him to the Siren. Try it some time and see how she treats him.
I like him cause you don't have to switch his skills, but hate him cause you're gonna accumulate a bunch of stress the longer he's in his monster form.
DD1 Abomination Lovers Community reporting in. I have tested out Broken key + Lock of Fury(LoF), and found that it's effective on level 0, and level 3-4 Abominations. At levels 1-2 the chance to double stun most stress casters is great enough to warrant the use of Padlock of Transference(PoT) over LoF, with one slight exception being the Cultist Acolyte, who has some chance to resist the double stun even with the trinket if your Abomination is level 1. At veteran rank Manacles only has an 80% chance to double stun Cultist Acolyte, even with PoT. The chance to stun easier targets like the Madman is 95%, but his speed is much higher, so I would still argue that LoF is better. At champion the focus is no longer backline targets, it's on stunning size 2 enemies, who have high stun resist, so PoT is always preferred. At level 0 the Abomination's chance to double stun is too low, and I believe LoF can be used in every area other than the cove. The cove contains enemies such as the Drowned Thrall, Deep Stinger, and Sea Maggot, which are all at least somewhat worth stunning due to stress or disease, and have 50% stun resist. A level 0 Abomination with PoT has a 95% chance to stun once. Having 2 more levels in Manacles adds as much stun chance as Padlock of Transference, and I may choose to use LoF instead of PoT. I'll need to test this, however. I have also found that Abomination's build is heavily dependent on who you're pairing him with. If you have PD you don't need Abomination to go first to stun the backline because she's going to stun them instead, so I'd use PoT. If you have a front line occultist, Abomination is usually faster, and will want to stun the backline with his far greater speed and ACC, so I'd prefer LoF I've been running Abomination with parties like Vestal/Jester/Abomination/Shieldbreaker/Hellion, PD/Jester/Abomination/Flagellant, and Jester/Abomination/Grave Robber/Occultist. I hate to say it, but Jester really is the best character to pick with abomination, not just because of the stress healing, but because of the extra crit. That extra crit is really valuable once you've transformed, because of Abomination's extra 20% damage for 2 rounds every time he crits. I think Jestal is really good with him, but that limits me to using Hellion or Shieldbreaker every time, so I at least have some rank 4 damage. Not really my favorite, but it's effective. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. This might be my longest comment ever. Congratulations if you've managed to read this far lol. P.S. I know you're focused on DD2 now, and I'll be getting it once it comes out of early access. I'm not really against the Epic Games Store, I just don't play early access titles until they release. I hope things are going well in DD2. Thanks for all the great content so far, and I hope there will be more for years to come.
Just make Padlock of Transference nullify the Stress of Transformation entirely. Your second Trinket is going to Focus Ring or some other big +Accuracy trinket anyway to account for furry-form's crap base hit rate. There. Now you're choosing between Stun-bot who occasionally hulks out, or superbeast who occasionally blights.
I thunk the abomination is pretty good actually: His stun is still very decent with his trinkets (that also have good other bonuses. Looking at you, stupid occultist cauldron I still take!) and his bile isn't that bad because it doesn't need to be picked over other spells. I also love my self heals, the perfect stalling move. In torchless I think abom is really interesting because once you hit the shambler aka the most challenging fight, you usually transform him and go to town with that rake ability that stacks. You kind of have to plan for this with your team composition though and I honestly love it. I e.g. take him with a hellion or leper because I know those guys don't need to be in rank 1 when fighting a shambler. The abomination's transformation basically os the ultimate panic buttom. The thing that kicks him into overdrive, no matter the costs. It's like "I don't give a fuck about the stress, if I do not transform him right now there might be no companions left to get stressed once this all is over!"
Well, despite the fact that Abomination is my favorite hero, I must agree that he provides the least value to your roster out of any of the characters. I still think he's worth using, and he really does well against the Shambler, which I think everyone needs to fight for the Ancestor's Map. I think that the damage he has when he's transformed is very strong, but the stress makes it hard to use in any normal fight. Despite all that his transform is still what you should bring him for. If you aren't going to transform he's just a worse version of the Occultist or Plague Doctor, with Occultist being better at stunning size 2 and champion level enemies, and Plague Doctor being better against stress casters. I like to think of him as an investment in the same way as the Antiquarian, who gives you more gold, but with abomination you're bringing him specifically to try to fight the Shambler and get its trinkets, or defeat a boss at any stress cost for the mission's trinket. I'm gonna go play around with Broken Key + Lock of Fury, because I have a theory that the extra speed will be more useful than the +20% stun chance from Padlock of Transference in veteran and below. I've done some calculations and he should be able to stun any of the conventional backline stress casters without having Padlock of Transference, and I suspect that having more speed will help him go before the Shambler's Tentacles, but I honestly don't know how speed works with enemies that are spawned in by a boss.
What I think people have to realise, is that in a game like Darkest Dungeon, there will always be a "Best" and "Worst". But in this case, "Worst" isn't always bad. Abom is weaker than average, but he still has his place, and that's important to realise
@@ShuffleFM Damn, didnt expect a reply. Thanks Shuffle! Out of interest, would you consider doing a video on the hero you think is the Best, or is that too situational?
I like him, especially since with a full blight party he brings in the burst damage. I like to use him, grave robber, plague doctor and shield breaker, i start with blight stacking, then i transform him and he finishes off the rest of the mobs
i personally use him since i managed to find a good skin file for him that is pretty rare since its removed everywhere(and only exists in a random person's file dump) and he is just great for either puking a ton of blight and some stuns for stalling
I agree with almost everything. I do love abomination in the cove and ruins. Once I have his trinkets, he's my go to, to run with antiquarian and get my gold up really high really fast. Main reason he's good (besides the stun)is actually his self heal. I can do like 5 or 6 runs in long dungeons with him, antiquarian, occultist, and plague doctor. Get my gold for the bank, and then push for the win.
I have the shining padlock and the stress book on the abomination and when he enters his beast mode he does not take any stress or gives any stress to anyone which is pretty good He's actually pretty good
I never found Abom particularly attractive to play and that is because his Transform is a skill that affects the rest of the battle when you use it (similar to Solo/Finale, which are skills I also rarely use). I can essentially never justify his Stun/Blight when I have PD, and his DMG when I have Leper, Crusader, and Hellion. Also, I absolutely HATE the fact that when he afflicts he transforms to human and you can't transform him back again. It feels like an unfair disadvantage as no other Hero gets such a penalty for afflicting.
Antiquarian. She's a bigger dead weight than Nero. Abomination was decent, but not the best. You really had to focus on one side or the other to get the most out of him.
personally i differ, hes high risk high reward, he always has all of skills avaible, works well on rank 1,2 and 3, can infict blight, stun, can move enemys, apply debuffs, heal himself, and the buff granted by your transformation is good
5:50 I started playing the game about a month ago, and this happened to me during my test run ( First radiant ). My party got shuffled, sending abom to 3rd spot and a holy spear crusader at 4th. I transformed abom to test their skills and after their turn ended he got stuned... forcing me to holy spear my crusader from 4th to 3rd. Tl;dr: I had to waste some turns until crusader and vestal switched spots before I was able to position abom
Below average stun. Stubs collector 2 times in a row. I get what you mean, but it was hilarious watching the background footage of your trivializing that fight haha.
I like him but he’s usually not key to my strategy so I wait to pick him up until I have a few levels in experienced recruits, so all his skills are higher level and he comes with an extra camp skill, saving quite a bit of gold. I like to take him for the pounder, sometimes for the prophet, and most of all if I’m looking for a shambler. Those are the situations where I’m most likely to transform and rake is better in longer fights while rage provides high damage against priority enemies in rank three. You can transform in regular battles but it’s usually only a good idea if you have a stress healer, or are about to camp, or just think you’ll take more stress if you don’t transform (you need to kill a madman or a drowned thrall for example). Most of the time he’s just around to stun, blight, and soak up punishment, but he can bring the pain. Just… learn from my mistakes and don’t ever try to fight the sleeper with him.
That really sucks. Abomination has my favourite concept in DD. I tried many times, never got it to work. I thought it was because I suck, now I realize that both me and abomination suck. 😟
I played Darkest Dungeon like 2 years ago, but I seen your videos and it got me back into it. I’m currently trying to beat the game on Bloodmoon to get the platinum trophy! A lot of things are different from the last time I played. Is Darkest Dungeon still being updated?
@@BornFromEmbers nothing specific that i remember, it's scheduled to somewhen like august, but hey, since DD2 is on the horizon they are doing some crazy sales on steam, they did it twice this year and i expect more,
Abos are damn fast and are even faster after camp cheaply. I play Grave Robbers and Abos only on my current stygian run, beating 6 shamblers losing 1 Grave Robber after 50 weeks. You only transform in fights that are worth it and with the right trinket you reduce stress 40%. The blight reduction goes well with other blighters in long fights. Acompanied with 2 Graverobber Flashing Daggers you can tripple hit position 2 and 3 before even the fastest enemy has its turn. The high speed easily allow high prot trinkets that reduce speed, like Heavy boots and some padlocks. Making Abos high speed tanks, optional high damage output, stress relief and heal, stun and blight.
Sure I am super late, but I run a Jester-Occultist-Abom-Leper and I honestly like how Abom's playstyle meshes together with this team, he usually outspeeds the occultist and stuns rank three, which means occultist can then pull rank 4 to the front for leper, human form helps a lot to keep control of the fight and his transform is a late-fight cleaner for when you require the extra damage I like it because I can run a more control-based version of the team that can then switch into an all-out damage nuke if needed, which I honestly think is Abom's playstyle's strength, he isnt the best of either world but he can do something not many heroes can in which you can accomodate two playstyles into the same team depending on what you think is best
Honestly I must have gotten just a completely different experience because Everytime I used Abomination in my runs it always just went smoothly. I gotta admit I was quite lucky with the Positive Quirks he got, and I spose I usually always run some sort of stress healer but yeah he would consistently be a character I never had to worry about dying or stressing out etc. It's hard to look at a base character now especially after the hundreds of hours with obvious buffed up heroes. Though on a different note as someone who is new to your channel, it is very interesting to see the evolution in your rankings and feelings for heroes in such a short time span, when in reality this would be over the course of a long period of time.
A unique Affliction for Abom of transofrming and not being able to go back would be awesome, it'd also be cool if he attacked the mobs and you couldnt control him, and maybe he even gets more powerful because you'd think the beast taking control would make him a lot stronger without the control. It's too bad Red Hook isn't looking at more balancing. I like transformation characters in games but as you've seen me comment before, Abom Transforming is crap :p.
Has anyone tested Restraining Padlock to see if he gets 40% less stress overall in Beast Mode? Looking at it closer, it may very well be useful if it does give that much less stress, to keep him from afflicting (I had an abom virtue during a shambler fight while transformed [yes I’m aware that that was an awful idea but shambles needs raking]). If he gets that much less stress, it makes Beast Mode more viable in high stress places
I feel like his main gimmick which is transform is absolutely useless, honestly this is a button I never want to press, his damage in transform is ok but nothing outstanding, with low acc as well, and his most unique ability is cleave, which are kind of bad most of the time. AND HE ALSO STRESSES. Why is that!? His stun skill deals decent damage anyway, why bite when you can bonk lmao.
I think a big issue with transform is the party stress. Abom can keep himself under control with absolution, but nuking the party each fight is much harder to deal with.
@@ShuffleFM Or make Restraining Padlock do that (-100% party stress -40% self stress). It'll still be a problem to gear him up to keep this damage up to point, but if you sacrifice human side completely other than few absolutions here and there it can work out. Candle would be a good choice I presume, he wants just a little bit of damage and some acc on top. Overall, like Leper, but with actually existing dodge and speed, less usable self heal and more reach. And you can bonk to stall and/or as first move. It can even be strong, there is no really fast high damage character maybe other than SB, but SB is broken let's not compare the worst and the best character lmao.
I really like using the abomination in my dedicated cove party of blighting the hell out of everything in order Plague doctor, grave robber, abomination, and hellion *knock on wood* they haven’t let me down yet and I wish I could have him transform more often I primarily just use it against boss fights anymore
I don’t understand Abom hate. At all. He’s one of the most fun heroes to use and he’s super effective. Yeah, he needs set up. So does Leper, Bounty Hunter, Arbalest, and Grave Robber. If you find his transform inconvenient, let me introduce you to Jester, who fixes his accuracy, stress heals on command, and gives him such outrageous crits that stress is a thing of the past and battles are done in 3 turns. Or, if uninterested in Jester, perhaps a Houndmaster would suffice, who can cry havoc (1) once and totally offset all of abom’s stress damage to team and then some. Abom hits rank 3 with a stun and a leper strength damage attack, has the second best self heal in the game, and is fast enough to tear apart most teams before they have a chance to retaliate. Abom is the best character thematically and easily the most satisfying to use well. This message brought to you by the Fuck Leper gang.
Abomination can be quite weak if you compare him directly to other heroes, however he also has one strong side that's stronger than for most, if not all, other heroes: reliability. Sure, he is basically locked in pos2-3 (not as bad as being locked into any other 2 positions) , but from a mechanic perspective if you fit him there, he will do anything. He can do damage, he can do some control (and a really strong debuff) with knockback, he can blight, stun, (stress) heal himself. If you don't have a stress healer in your team, but plenty of "normal" healing, you can just casually use him as a stress tank by giving him some stress at the beginning of a dungeon (like reading some uncanny writings or paintings) and trying to keep it at that lvl as you progress the dungeon - hard play, but a rewarding one. Of course he has a stun, stuns are good, and with appropriate trinkets he has one of the highest base chances to stun. Cleave blight can be invaluable in Cove and especially Ruins, where Jester's sickle blunts so to speak. Against Shambler he is a monster (literally) just because Rake spam quickly puts his damage above Leper's while maintaining higher accuracy (the only downsides is that it requires you to play dedicated beast abom, i.e. pick certain trinkets and lock certain quirks, and usually you won't do that, but come on Leper is unplayable against shambler). And the most important thing: he is just too damn sexy in beast form
I hope I didn't give the impression that he's trash in this video. He is still fun and can do well, it's just that he has some serious issues compared to others.
@@ShuffleFM Maybe you could research mods for him that retool his character to be more viable and let us know which is the best to use without breaking the character.
A funny thing I've noticed about how I play abomination is that sometimes I just start spamming absolution after the early chain lash/bile. Sure it works similarly to Leper's solemnity but I feel like I can use abomination as a sponge for dmg and stress dmg without losing out as much as I would with Leper who's there solely to end the game's entire career with big dmg, so there's that going for abomination in my eyes if I happen to need said sponge potential.
Honestly, even though his base human form skills aren’t always the best, I get a lot of value out of his human form regardless, Abomination in human form is really less of a damage dealer and more of a support that you would use alongside other stun heroes and those that get more damage value from stunned or blighted enemies. That being said, his monster form and the stress it deals is sometimes quite difficult to use reliably, though usually I don’t rely on a stress healing build so that might be why. His monster form is more like a panic button for when things aren’t going your way and you need to deal damage faster
I like to keep a pair of Abominations on my roster to fight the Shrieker boss. Bring a Jester or M-A-A for accuracy buffs and hulk out, ez corvid quirks
I love to use double Abom in dd1, but except that, Abom is mostly good for panic damage. If you want blight or stuns there are just better options. All in all pretty weird generalist.
I think the biggest issue is that having all ur stuff across 2 forms that u gotta switch between that also does Real Damage (stress) as opposed to Fake Damage (HP) sucks. also he gets outpaced in terms of damage and utility by. literally anyone else who's good at anything
I'm surprise you didn't go for the defacto weakest hero antiquarian. She's much more of a liability than abom, her biggest strength just being a money printer. Other than that, her dodge spam vapors take a while to build and her attacks get neuter by the increasing prot, HP, and resistances of harder enemies. By the time she sets up, a different hero in her place could've killed or stun an enemy. In any case, I do still agree with the points you made in this video and find it sad that Abomination's key mechanic has to be shelved for almost the entire quest.
im late to the show here. problem with abom has always been someone can do his role, another class can do better. like if i want a stun bot ill take bounty hunter for example. if i want a plauger, plague doctor. high front rank damage, hellion or leper. but his strength is that he can do all of those things, just not as well. hes a jack of trades sort of, hes not bad, but hes also not good. but he is fun.
@@paulberry5750 accuracy is a problem? Dude. Theres plenty of easy ways to fix it and the fact that his base damage is so high mitigates that easy enough. Bleeds also not that big a deal, he can out heal it easy or just nuke the dudes that cause it. Or bandage/pd. All you need is a focus ring
Important thing to keep in mind, ranking heroes in DD is always difficult, because no hero is ever "horrible" or "unplayable." Some are just "worse" than others. Even antiquarian can be pretty damn good with how high the dodge can go. (Plus gold!!!) Honestly the lowest any DD hero can be is C tier.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing I forgot to mention in the video is how hard it is to trinket this hero without broken key. You either have to focus on beast or human mode, and his CC set is a mess with that set bonus.
I sometimes use the Osmand chain with broken key, extra accuracy and crit on bile and manacles can be great but I don't think I've ever used the whole set. One half of it becomes useless if you wanna get use out of the set bonus of the big damage boost that he can capitalise on in human form rank 1, kinda shame really
Not really, in my experience. Just slam once after transforming (assuming you’re in rank 2) and you’re totally fine.
Melee Damage trinkets all the way. Stuns & Blights are nice but fast slaughter solves soo many problems...
Dazzling charm or Stun armlet and Speed stone can do it very well. Ofc you have to focus on the human form😉😉😉
@@albertgrau4076 I play for massive damage, not fancy stuns & stalls.
Even the Ancestor seems to have a thing against Abom.
After enemy kill: "Another abomination cleansed from our lands"
Abom in party: :(
xD
RIP Bigby
My favorite moment in this game:
Siren charms my transformed abomination
“OH NO!”
Makes him unstransform
“No more damage ig…”
Realise he is stuck infront and can only absolution,basicaly healing him back to full health for me while leper kills her.
Outstanding move
holy shit what a big brain boner move
Red Hook, let us give Dog Treats to transformed Abom. This is the buff he really needs.
Honestly it wouldn't be that stupid to give rage the marked synergy. At least it would make mark comps more varied.
go take the dog pill
@@neglectfulsausage7689nooooooo…..! anything but that!
dammit. now i have that song in my head
Honestly, I love the Abomination for Human side alone- call it cringe but with Broken Key and Padlock of Transference he can stun most enemies twice in a row, or consistently stun stronger enemies. Additionally, in the Endless Meth Farmer Raid, the bile will always kill Crystalline Aberrations, so he can be worked into a team with those combined traits.
Why not simply take a PD and stun 2 things? Get stronger blights? Not get locked with a bad hero in the roster and start a run with an unoptimal comp? Get a bleed/blight removal on demand. I think that this is so inefficient, it's like people saying Arba is not utter trash because it can side heal disregarding the fact that if you actually had a good hero on your team, you wouldn't need that heal in the 1st place.
@@AlexanderBC42 plague docto plus abom, there are four slots
@@AlexanderBC42 Good argument but the Abomination works well with my group better. Because I throw in two Highwaymen (I purposefully let one have both luminous and slowdraw so he always goes after the 1st in combat) to dance around with Riposte, critical hits are so common that there's almost never two people in the back. Blinding Gas has only 3 per combat, meaning in Endless Harvest you could use it, but then have to switch it out. Additionally, the Abomination has better stun chance. The PD, with ideal stun trinkets attached, has 170% chance and +10 accuracy, but only 160% blight. Abom with ideal stun trinkets attached has 185% chance and +15 accuracy, and still only 160% blight, which is clearly better if you're going for a stun character.
She has the benefit of better healing (Number-wise no, but it does cure bleed/blight and can target others) and stronger blight, but overall, not a good enough healer. I think that Vestal-Abomination-Highwayman-Highwayman is a super strong team, especially since you can attach the busted Crimson Court Trinkets and switch them around at rests for almost guaranteed double-virtue.
@@somebodyalive6131 you can fix limited uses for all moves by making the character snort space meth, so you could do it to keep using blinding gas. Probably not worth it in most cases since PD doesn't benefit much from the bonus damage it gives you and you take stress each time you use it. As for the farmstead team, it has some weaknesses, like not having any armor piercing which is great in the farmstead due to the random encounters. Also, you can use abom in rank 2 and have him be transformed and constantly spamming rake while a jester mashes ballad and stress heals when needed. My favourite abom comp is Vestal-Jester-Abomination-Leper. You have vestal for heals and stuns, jester for battle ballad and to keep abom from getting afflicted, abom spams rake and leper mostly uses chop/hew to work with abom on destroying the front.
@@chip2508 We're talking about Endless Harvest, so isn't using lots of space meth completely defeating the purpose in the first place?
I'd say that Abomination has something over Blinding Gas- he has more freedom in targeting that one space he strikes, and has a higher stun chance (A full human build would at least) and damage. For example, if there's a single space missing, for example Blight or a Crit, then that Blinding Gas is barely getting its value.
Vestal-Jester-Abomination-Leper sounds good, as it has solid DPS against the front two and good stress heal and heal, but the benefit of Vestal-Abomination-Highwayman-Highwayman is that a lot of enemies will target the front 2. So by spending every second turn for Duelist's Advance, you're turning their turn into your own turn like a Yu-gi-oh player, as well as strong DPS and healing.
With Stress being the biggest killer in the game, I feel like Abomination's monster form is too weak for the damage it inflicts on you. Either make it stronger or lower the penalty on transformation (or buff the stress heal when he returns back to human)
*gasp* PADLOCK OF TRANSFERENCE
For the amount of stress it causes, abomination's monster form needs to be actually monstrous in power. Like if he transformed into a Leper for example that would actually be better ngl.
@@toprak3479 He is better then leper in beast form. He can reach pos 3 + he will act first with big speed boost + he has way more crit/ acc .
Hes amazing for shambler fights with the double mellee hit , combine that with a jester and youre good.
I think it'd be cool if he had a blight riposte in transform mode, like he bleeds toxic blood on the attacker.
It pisses me off that butcher circus abom has riposte when he blights, i wish he did that in the base game
@@budinhapalmieri oh I didn't know that. Does it inflict blight?
@@finpospilil9621 I believe it does if the blight chance is high enough
There's a mod that does exactly this and it's great. Fairly certain it nerfs manacles stun chance to 120% but it is usable from rank 1.
Slam is usable from rank 4 and it is a guard break + enemy knock back 2.
It's something like "circusy abomination"
@@oaknacht6176 pog
I like using abom, but I also think he could be called the worst, not by effectiveness, but by how small part of his kit dominates his gameplay (pretty much just padlock of transferrence + broken key and manacles spam). while being a speedy stunner is good, it's pretty much what he'll be doing 90% of the time. sure, he can blight or transform for frontal damage, but those have a lot of downsides and limitations, and other heroes can do those things better most of the time.
So not bad by effectiveness, but badly designed / balanced within his own trinkets and moveset.
It is sad that he really only has a single strategy to be made efficient, which is Manacles with the stun trinkets equipped, but in the end, most characters do have a single meta that works better than others. I mean, Bounty Hunter is almost always going to be using Collect Bounty for damage of a Leper, but with high speed, dodge, and crit, the Vestal will almost always be doing strong heals, the Leper will always be using his extra prot and/or revenge and then his godly swings, etc
Abomb as a class was, as far as I know, introduced thanks to a patreon donator of the Lord Tier. Basically someone's inserted creation into the delicately crafted world of Darkest Dungeon.
This all may be true, but he's still my favorite character because you can use camp skills + CC + trinkets + quirks + the damage buff from beast form to get him to truly insane levels of raw damage.
Adding to that, he has the second (2nd) highest base damage of all max lvl heroes and his crit buff is 20% dmg. The damage is staggering and the crit chance for the beast skills gives you the buff quite fast.
I really like themed parties, and i use them for specific areas.
Blight party for the cove:
- shield breaker
- abomination
- plague doctor
- grave robber
Bleed party for the Weald:
( High bleed stacking and aoe damage, like the blight party )
- Flagellant
- Hellion
- Jester
- Houndmaster
Light party for the ruins:
(3 heroes using light skills saves up on torches, and ruins gives more torches, so i save money)
- crusader
- vestal
- leper
- arbalest
Money party for warrens:
( More food here saves money plus antiquarian, party synergy with guard + ripostes and buff stacking )
- mace guy
- highway
-occultist
- antiquarian
Mark party:
( Can be used anywhere, so it's good when a specific party is down )
- bounty hunter
- Houndmaster
- marksman
And i forgot the last one
A nice way to balance his monster form would be to make him aways stress heal a random party member but himself by 3 every time he deals a killing blow. Would make it viable as a damage dealer in monster form and would make sense in a lore way. "Denis just transformed into a hideous monster? Guess i'll get a little stressed. Oh, hi's still sane and beating up the real treats? Guess i'll get a little less stressed now."
Well, his weaknesses may be mechanical, but you forgot his greatest strength:
His aesthetics and theme are just SO FREAKING COOL.
Okay, maybe the fact that coolness outweighs effectiveness IMO is why I suck at this game. :P
here's an idea
beating the game is cool
why don't you do that?
then after that, you can do other cool stuff!
:DDDD
@@RookieREX So far gotten further than I had before. Shuffles videos helped a lot (I took advice from bad sources, apparently). I'm getting there, but slowly.
@@Syurtpiutha hey, i havn't beaten the game yet either
try to avoid spoilers better than me
and slowly but surly is perhaps one of the better ways to progress in this game
@@RookieREX Dark Souls taught me well...
I get the feeling that you glossed over the absurd stat buffs that Abom gets by transforming. Abom is the single best standalone source of single target damage on turn 1 by a large margin, with unmodified damage output comparable a Leper with +10 acc if Leper could hit rank 3, or Houndmaster/Arbalest if they had guaranteed Mark setup from another hero with absurd speed and accuracy, and Abom acts at 9 speed on turn 1 compared to Houndmaster's 7, Arbalest's 5, and Leper's 4. Abom gets an additional 4 bonus speed from transforming the following turn, so by transforming on turn 1 you can realistically kill absurdly fast stress damage dealers in rank 3 that would otherwise almost always get to act before your party on turn 2.
It is easy to identify human Abom as inferior to other heroes with stuns and damaging abilities, but beast mode is appropriately powerful on teams that are built to handle stress. Dropping a nuclear missile on ranks 1 through 3 often outvalues Abom's predictable stress cleave on teams with Jester, Houndmaster, and even Crusader that can stall with stress skills during fights and clean up with broken camp skills when necessary, and a below average controlling hero is good enough to function in the other fights. I feel like Padlock of Transference is a trap, because it puts you in the mindset of thinking "Abom needs to be in human form to get the full value of this trinket, but is still worse than other heroes that stun and damage better" when beast mode is outstandingly strong.
I consider the Leper to be the worst hero in the game, and I feel many of the Abomination's weaknesses addressed in the video are even more applicable to Leper: Leper has to hog accuracy trinkets to leverage his raw damage; Leper doesn't have a stun at all, and instead has two very narrow utility moves that are restricted to rank 1; Leper cannot reach rank 3-4 except with Intimidate, which is a a very low tempo damage/debuff move; Leper is a fish out of water in both ranks 3 and 4. In my experience, it is much easier and more rewarding to build around Abom's weaknesses than Leper's.
I didn't fully elaborate my thoughts on the Leper. I was primarily drawing comparisons to the weaknesses that Shuffle said were holding back Abomination and how I thought those same weaknesses were exemplified by the Leper. I believe that Leper is a B tier hero in a game where every hero is exceptionally versatile and/or completely break the things they're best at. There is absolutely no better hero for killing things that are directly in front of them cleanly without setup than Leper, and killing things quickly is the most important part of leaving fights with high health and low stress. Absurd damage, self-care, a handful of niche combat skills that solve miscellaneous problems, and great camping skills are more than enough to make him a functional and powerful character.
The reason I think Leper is the worst hero is because other heroes can do comparable damage with better target selection if they have help, and Leper is worse when out of position than any other hero since he cannot contribute to damaging or controlling enemies in positions 3 or 4, he can only move himself forward one position at a time, and the scarcity of heroes which can move themselves backwards while progressing a fight in order to move Leper to the front means there is very little you can do to mitigate this downside besides giving him a move resist trinket and entirely avoiding fights that shuffle your entire party.
Intimidate is the single best stealth-removing ability to use against damage-dealing enemies (hook pig, sword skeleton, and blunderbuss brigand). Its low damage also makes it a good damaging skill for abusing the reinforcements timer. However, it is not worth using for crowd control alone because the amount of versatile heroes that can stun or debuff accuracy in ranks 3+ instead (e.g. Abomination, Antiquarian, Arbalest, Bounty Hunter, Occultist, Plague Doctor, Vestal) means that Leper should be focusing on dealing damage. Beyond preventing raw damage, stuns and accuracy reduction also prevent stress, bleed, blight, debuffs, stuns, move skills, and diseases, which makes a damage reduction debuff very ineffective by comparison. Chopping things to death is going to prevent more bad stuff from happening to your party than Intimidate is.
Each of Leper's skills have use cases, and deciding which combination of supporting skills to take into different fights is interesting. I enjoy the character, I've run him in more dungeons than I've run Bounty Hunter and Highwayman. I just wish it was a little easier to justify running him. Honestly, if he could use Intimidate from any position I would no longer have a strong opinion on who the worst hero in the game was and I would use him all the time lmao
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted)
I understand that Bone Captain and Swinetaur are heavily dependent on raw damage, and can be thoroughly neutered by Intimidate but can't be stunned consecutively. I am saying that, because the opportunity cost of Leper debuffing an ememy's damage instead of dealing Chop damage is much greater than that cost for heroes who simultaneously deal less damage than Leper and also stun (or else debuff accuracy) instead of debuffing damage, it is generally better to stun, Suppress with Arbalest, or Flash Powder with Antiquarian to prevent the effects of most dangerous enemies' attacks while Leper kills whatever is standing in front of him.
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted)
I already said that Intimidate is a great move for stalling the reinforcement timer. If you're going to make assumptions about my quality of play because you failed to read what I wrote, I am no longer interested in this conversation.
(EDIT: This was a reply to a comment that has been deleted)
If you think that -33% damage for 3 turns is higher tempo than a stun, which is essentially -100% damage, stress, DoT, debuffs, and crowd control, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what tempo is.
I’m getting the impression that you don’t care what I think because I use Intimidate differently than you do, or because you made up a fictional tragic backstory for me where I am catastrophically bad at Leper and don’t know how to rationally analyze mistakes and problems. If it eases your conscience, I am 43 weeks into a Stygian campaign with exactly 2 deaths, neither of which involved my level 6 Leper. Now, I would be happy to continue this conversation, but I’m not going to waste my time if you aren’t interested in what I have to say. If you genuinely want to hear from me again, explain exactly what I’m saying that you disagree with, and be open to resolving misunderstandings instead of dismissing things you don’t understand. I just want to have a civil conversation.
@@spencerbowler7287 I think the reason why Leper isn't the worst is because the fact that he can be a damage dealer and a tank at the same time. I think many people have conception that leper's best ally is Jester because he provides accuracy but that is in fact false. His best ally is actually antiquarian and that's because his buff(Revenge) gives -10 dodge penalty for massive damage boosts and accuracy. If you use withstand as well. you can mitigate damage penalty although this is rarely needed in hallway fights. His other biggest enemy is high prod enemies because... although he does higher damage than every hero, he doesn't actually do higher damage since a lot of his damage ends mitigating from prod. This is why Shieldbreaker is really good for him. Shieldbreaking has camping skill that gives +15 prod damage and for leper. that's insane buff. Leper also has huge damage variance and critical hits help reduce it. Shieldbreaker's expose weakness is really good skill for him in particular because it reduces speed and gives him more critical which basically makes his damage more consistent. She also has impale, a cleave that works well with Leper's Hew skill, so for those boss that summon a lot of mobs, he can deal with it. Antiquarian, Vestal, Leper and Shieldbreaker is what makes Leper not garbage. he becomes a unit that has perfect accuracy, high evasion, huge health pool and perfect healer to keep him alive.
Another conception that leper is tricket reliant. He's reliant on surgical gloves which is uncommon artifact and warrior cap which is common artifact. Eventually you get Shrieker bottle which is just powercreep warrior cap for him. His early game resolve problems can easily be solved by putting Jester or Manatarms(Who has bellow). Trinkets just remove the tax of needing to have bellow or battle balad on him and once you can remove this tax, you can focus on survival so that he can remove the tax himself with revenge.Leper is like definition of a stat-check character. I kinda see leper as worse shieldbreaker but a better bounty hunter. in the same team i describe, you can just have 2 shieldbreakers and they'll probably do about the same. Ironically enough, leper has odd synergy with bounty hunter as bounty hunter has uppercut to flip rank 2 into 4 and leper has purge to flip rank 1 into 4. so you can flip backline and frontline in 2 moves. At the same time, you could just put 2 shieldbreakers and use Puncture but why do that when shieldbreaker can already reach rank 3-4 with pierce.
Conclusively, I don't think Leper and Abomination are related. Abomination is more like hand of light vestal(Rank 2) with more conditions. Leper is more like bad shieldbreaker. Leper is not unusable, He's just outclassed by other choices.
Abomination does stall in some areas...but, he's our friend and teammate, so, we work with it.
New player here; and yeah, for me, he's a dedicated mid rank unit. That said, the self heal and transforming heal does almost give a sort of tankiness to him? Certainly it would be interesting to pair him with something like the antiquarian's skill that marks and buffs allies, and maybe equip generic trinkets that help boost that role.
The transform itself I've only ever used in emergencies (low health and we need to end this fight now); definitely respectably powerful, but, nothing I can't live without absent those dire situations.
I’ve always felt like Abom was pretty great cuz you can drop him into almost any comp that needs a rank 2/3 and he’ll be valuable. Also he’s like the perfect rank 2 for a team with grave robber cuz he can still do everything he wants after being moved back a rank by lunge.
And then additionally his stun is just really really consistent between his trinkets and it having a better base accuracy than Occultist along with dealing decent damage making it high tempo.
Totally agreed I love using him with grave robber
I will not let you slander my boy
I used him the other day with flagellant, abomination antiquarian and plague doctor, and damn DOT stacks fast, fun team too
That sounds cool. I should try it out.
But why the antiquarian? What's her major contribution to the team aside from her great dodge buffs to herself and her allies? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a grave robber to help blight enemies and throw knives to finish them off?
WarriorofLight maney
I feel like heavily reducing the stress penalty on his transformation makes the mechanic a lot less interesting, but I do believe that the reward for transforming just isn't worth the price... now I think if you wanted to fix that then making the transformed abomination a crit machine could go a long way for both his damage output and to mitigate his stress penalty in a way that's flavorful... (sort of a "I'm glad it's on our side" deal) but that would be a very dice-rolley solution in a game where you want to grasp for as much fleeting certainty as possible.
This idea could work with a teamparty including the Jester.
Yeah, I really don't agree, I get *much* more value out of Abomination than a good proportion of the classes. The sheer versatility of being able to spin from a powerful stunner to one of the better burst damage dealers in the game is much more valuable to me than, for example, Graverobber's limitation to intermittent bursts or Arbalest's slow rank 4 damage. The stress is a factor, but I've taken Abom into situations like Shambler fights and his output has been an absolute godsend.
This isn't to say he's top tier or anything, he's certainly not as good as Flagellant or PD, but worst class in the game is strongly overselling it imo.
Wolf Parade, shuff.
No Hero is an island. It's all how you support one another. Occ marks & weakens, Jester Stress heals, & the two Aboms upfront act as a Veg-O-Matic that purees anything stupid enough to fight you.
Abom: *is in my party*
Me: I just think he's neat
hfmmuuhh..😮💨
rather than tolerance and justification of his weaknesses, i really hope he will be re-design.
1.) Crusader [Damage Dealer, Stun, Support]
2.) Hellion....[Damage dealer, Stun, Bleeding]
3.) Shieldbreaker [Blight]
He really easy to compare so-to replace, because "so many reason" like you said.
Someone that consistent to use him, is either an Idealist or a Stubborn.
abom is always my number 1 stunner. At 9 spd he can deal with a target in 2 or 3. stun a 2 and then push them to 4 and there's two turns they're doing almost no damage as they stumble back to 3.
Imagine being able to transform into a beast, and the beast form not even being as good as you hitting some dudes with your chain😢
I mean, there's certainly an argument to be made that there are some major design flaws, but... I'd still rather bring along an abomination over an arbalest/musketeer the majority of the time. if having one bad position is a problem, what about having 2 equally bad positions, with no way to move back easily? the abomination may have poor damage without transforming, well, arbalest is terrible at damage without a mark. she is also terrible at attacking rank 1.
if abom is overly stuck relying on 2 skills to be effective, I would argue that the only thing arbalest is genuinely good at is suppressing fire for the accuracy debuff. yes, she *can* do other things; her healing skill is not terrible (but it isn't that impressive either, and frankly I'd rather have a heal that is slightly better *now* than a heal that will get good as long as I can just spend the next 3 rounds healing the same target), her mark is disappointing against the vast majority of enemies (basically if they don't have a ton of dodge), flare is extremely situational, blindfire is a sick joke (because what you need in a game where luck will mercilessly screw you is to give luck another chance to screw you, right?)...
so yeah, abomination has problems. I won't argue that.
but if I had an abomination that doesn't have bad traits and an arbalest that doesn't have bad traits, I suspect I'd find far more opportunities to bring the abomination along than the arbalest.
which is a shame, I really want to like arbalest. I think a few minor tweaks would help a lot. if blindfire moved you back 1 position, if her flare was either more consistent or had a higher value on the stress heal, if her heal worked better now instead of being better next round, if her mark was stronger, if she was less helpless in more positions, if her main attack ability could actually work against position 1, if her entire ability to do damage was not so heavily dependent on a mark that costs an action from someone who could be doing basically the same thing as her but better...
the few things that she is "good" at take extra time to become good, whether that is waiting for her heal to build up or needing someone to mark her target when they could have just spent their action doing damage in the first place, or building up a big enough accuracy debuff on her targets that they become ineffective.
So far it seems the discussion is centered around abom, arb, or antiquarian which is p interesting.
Abom + hellion completely trivialise brigand 16 pounder. Hitting rank 3-4 with high melee damage is super valuable in that fight
i think it would have been really cool if they made his bile from pvp his normal skill, riposte is pretty good, so it would give you a reason to actually press bile once every 2 or 3 rounds. It wouldnt even have to do much damage tbh lol
Edit: Maybe a cool mechanic could be landing a riposte on a blighted enemy resets the blight timer? maybe that would be broken tho who knows.
Abom human form: stun with the occasional beast bile, needs trinkets to shine
Abom beast form: high damage that's only worth in boss fights or ambushes
Should have 100% acc + a middle strong FULL Group bleed attack
Ah!
I have an idea.
Remember the formation of:
*Jester, *Jester, *Leper, *Leper
We can use him by replacing the two of leper.
He transform and therefore MUST! do Critical damage everytime, so he can heal stress.
If you use an Abom for stuns, doesn't that end up meaning Occultist built for stuns is not only better at that job but does more damage and brings better utility to the table?
Depends on the team. Abom is much more durable and his healing is consistent so he doesn't need much help. Occultist is a stun monster but if he needs to heal it slows him down.
It s true but occ is also a stress healer in this case because of how many crits he brings himself alone on the party
Never found a good use for him personally. He's my least used character by far. Effectively he can stun and blight and even then mostly just ranks 2 and 3. The power in transform mode is not worth the stress, and even then it takes a while to ramp up. Terrible. And what do you trinket him for? Phys damage, stun or blight? Or stress reduction? Yeah, sorry abom gotta pass mate.
I don't even bother having aboms. Position locked while in human form, inferior blight (vs say, SB or PD or even GR ant Ant, the last of whom compensate with other skills), inferior stun (vs Cr, Ves, Occ, etc) and same for self heal vs leper or others, and even leper must be my second least used unit. His beast form with the best trinkets still doesn't negate party/self stress damage and lbr, damage output in beast is disappointing and position oriented /non aoe if I recall. Pass, friend.
To phrase some of your points better, due to the Abomination's trinket reliance, instead of being an incredibly flexible character having access to all his skills all the time, he becomes an incredibly inflexible one as the human and beast forms require completely different trinkets. Especially the human form, without the necessary trinkets, is simply pathetic as it's balanced around said trinkets. Moreover due to how the game as a whole is balanced around proactive play being vastly superior to reactive play, Abomination's stress penalty becomes much more pronounced. While there are amazing neutral stress mitigating trinkets, which means every class can use them, which would fit perfectly in a beast Abomination team, the opportunity cost of using those trinkets instead of others that will actually benefit the individual characters, is simply massive and the beast Abomination is simply not strong enough to warrant this cost.
I think, that it depends on difficulty. On normal difficulty the worst hero is atiquarian because you are not in rush and you dont need to get money fast so abom is worst only in bloodmoon.
Abomination is in my top 5 favorite classes, but I yield that he has very many issues. If the benefits of beast mode were worth the stress, or if they just made his transformation stress decrease with level he’d be much better. He needs much more damage in transformed mode if they aren’t going to fix his other issues.
Early on I was really impressed with abomination, I thought his beast mode must really be powerful. then I introduced him to the Siren. Try it some time and see how she treats him.
I like him cause you don't have to switch his skills, but hate him cause you're gonna accumulate a bunch of stress the longer he's in his monster form.
That was a clean collector kill by the way.
DD1 Abomination Lovers Community reporting in.
I have tested out Broken key + Lock of Fury(LoF), and found that it's effective on level 0, and level 3-4 Abominations.
At levels 1-2 the chance to double stun most stress casters is great enough to warrant the use of Padlock of Transference(PoT) over LoF, with one slight exception being the Cultist Acolyte, who has some chance to resist the double stun even with the trinket if your Abomination is level 1.
At veteran rank Manacles only has an 80% chance to double stun Cultist Acolyte, even with PoT. The chance to stun easier targets like the Madman is 95%, but his speed is much higher, so I would still argue that LoF is better.
At champion the focus is no longer backline targets, it's on stunning size 2 enemies, who have high stun resist, so PoT is always preferred.
At level 0 the Abomination's chance to double stun is too low, and I believe LoF can be used in every area other than the cove.
The cove contains enemies such as the Drowned Thrall, Deep Stinger, and Sea Maggot, which are all at least somewhat worth stunning due to stress or disease, and have 50% stun resist.
A level 0 Abomination with PoT has a 95% chance to stun once.
Having 2 more levels in Manacles adds as much stun chance as Padlock of Transference, and I may choose to use LoF instead of PoT. I'll need to test this, however.
I have also found that Abomination's build is heavily dependent on who you're pairing him with.
If you have PD you don't need Abomination to go first to stun the backline because she's going to stun them instead, so I'd use PoT.
If you have a front line occultist, Abomination is usually faster, and will want to stun the backline with his far greater speed and ACC, so I'd prefer LoF
I've been running Abomination with parties like Vestal/Jester/Abomination/Shieldbreaker/Hellion, PD/Jester/Abomination/Flagellant, and Jester/Abomination/Grave Robber/Occultist.
I hate to say it, but Jester really is the best character to pick with abomination, not just because of the stress healing, but because of the extra crit. That extra crit is really valuable once you've transformed, because of Abomination's extra 20% damage for 2 rounds every time he crits.
I think Jestal is really good with him, but that limits me to using Hellion or Shieldbreaker every time, so I at least have some rank 4 damage. Not really my favorite, but it's effective.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. This might be my longest comment ever. Congratulations if you've managed to read this far lol.
P.S. I know you're focused on DD2 now, and I'll be getting it once it comes out of early access. I'm not really against the Epic Games Store, I just don't play early access titles until they release.
I hope things are going well in DD2. Thanks for all the great content so far, and I hope there will be more for years to come.
If nothing else he's a good slot filler for when you just have an empty spot
But I always thought that he was an A-ranked hero personally
I mean, why would he have a big "A" on his face if that wasn't the case?
Just make Padlock of Transference nullify the Stress of Transformation entirely.
Your second Trinket is going to Focus Ring or some other big +Accuracy trinket anyway to account for furry-form's crap base hit rate.
There. Now you're choosing between Stun-bot who occasionally hulks out, or superbeast who occasionally blights.
nah, arbalest is dog water, and stock antiquarian.
Ive had abominations shit on mobs in every area of the game.
I thunk the abomination is pretty good actually: His stun is still very decent with his trinkets (that also have good other bonuses. Looking at you, stupid occultist cauldron I still take!) and his bile isn't that bad because it doesn't need to be picked over other spells. I also love my self heals, the perfect stalling move.
In torchless I think abom is really interesting because once you hit the shambler aka the most challenging fight, you usually transform him and go to town with that rake ability that stacks. You kind of have to plan for this with your team composition though and I honestly love it. I e.g. take him with a hellion or leper because I know those guys don't need to be in rank 1 when fighting a shambler.
The abomination's transformation basically os the ultimate panic buttom. The thing that kicks him into overdrive, no matter the costs. It's like "I don't give a fuck about the stress, if I do not transform him right now there might be no companions left to get stressed once this all is over!"
Well, despite the fact that Abomination is my favorite hero, I must agree that he provides the least value to your roster out of any of the characters. I still think he's worth using, and he really does well against the Shambler, which I think everyone needs to fight for the Ancestor's Map. I think that the damage he has when he's transformed is very strong, but the stress makes it hard to use in any normal fight. Despite all that his transform is still what you should bring him for.
If you aren't going to transform he's just a worse version of the Occultist or Plague Doctor, with Occultist being better at stunning size 2 and champion level enemies, and Plague Doctor being better against stress casters. I like to think of him as an investment in the same way as the Antiquarian, who gives you more gold, but with abomination you're bringing him specifically to try to fight the Shambler and get its trinkets, or defeat a boss at any stress cost for the mission's trinket.
I'm gonna go play around with Broken Key + Lock of Fury, because I have a theory that the extra speed will be more useful than the +20% stun chance from Padlock of Transference in veteran and below. I've done some calculations and he should be able to stun any of the conventional backline stress casters without having Padlock of Transference, and I suspect that having more speed will help him go before the Shambler's Tentacles, but I honestly don't know how speed works with enemies that are spawned in by a boss.
What I think people have to realise, is that in a game like Darkest Dungeon, there will always be a "Best" and "Worst". But in this case, "Worst" isn't always bad. Abom is weaker than average, but he still has his place, and that's important to realise
Exactly
@@ShuffleFM Damn, didnt expect a reply. Thanks Shuffle! Out of interest, would you consider doing a video on the hero you think is the Best, or is that too situational?
@@luketalbot2643 he called abomination a bad and garbage character throughout the video what are you talking about
dude, i've been using abomination a lot. I don't know why people hate him....
I like him, especially since with a full blight party he brings in the burst damage.
I like to use him, grave robber, plague doctor and shield breaker, i start with blight stacking, then i transform him and he finishes off the rest of the mobs
i personally use him since i managed to find a good skin file for him that is pretty rare since its removed everywhere(and only exists in a random person's file dump) and he is just great for either puking a ton of blight and some stuns for stalling
I agree with almost everything. I do love abomination in the cove and ruins. Once I have his trinkets, he's my go to, to run with antiquarian and get my gold up really high really fast. Main reason he's good (besides the stun)is actually his self heal.
I can do like 5 or 6 runs in long dungeons with him, antiquarian, occultist, and plague doctor. Get my gold for the bank, and then push for the win.
I have the shining padlock and the stress book on the abomination and when he enters his beast mode he does not take any stress or gives any stress to anyone which is pretty good He's actually pretty good
I never found Abom particularly attractive to play and that is because his Transform is a skill that affects the rest of the battle when you use it (similar to Solo/Finale, which are skills I also rarely use). I can essentially never justify his Stun/Blight when I have PD, and his DMG when I have Leper, Crusader, and Hellion. Also, I absolutely HATE the fact that when he afflicts he transforms to human and you can't transform him back again. It feels like an unfair disadvantage as no other Hero gets such a penalty for afflicting.
But... but...
Every character that isn’t a leapfrogging Graverobber is the worst. :c
Antiquarian. She's a bigger dead weight than Nero.
Abomination was decent, but not the best. You really had to focus on one side or the other to get the most out of him.
I value antiquarians gold acquisition much more which is why I can't call her the worst. And you're right that you have to focus on 1 thing for abom.
I dunno. I'd rather take an Abomination than an Antiquarian in a majority of my team comps!
I mean, antiquarian is "porter" class soo....
"discussion" like every shuffle video
always wondered about meme comps with high virtue chance and 2 transforming aboms
personally i differ, hes high risk high reward, he always has all of skills avaible, works well on rank 1,2 and 3, can infict blight, stun, can move enemys, apply debuffs, heal himself, and the buff granted by your transformation is good
5:50 I started playing the game about a month ago, and this happened to me during my test run ( First radiant ). My party got shuffled, sending abom to 3rd spot and a holy spear crusader at 4th. I transformed abom to test their skills and after their turn ended he got stuned... forcing me to holy spear my crusader from 4th to 3rd.
Tl;dr: I had to waste some turns until crusader and vestal switched spots before I was able to position abom
Below average stun. Stubs collector 2 times in a row. I get what you mean, but it was hilarious watching the background footage of your trivializing that fight haha.
abomination got my party killed in the darkest dungeon from all the stress damage
Antiq with Abom seem like a great synergy (at least for ruins and cove) force guard on the abom, slowly blight everything to death!
He doesnt have riposte in normal battle, only in Butchers Circus if thats what you are talking about.
I like him but he’s usually not key to my strategy so I wait to pick him up until I have a few levels in experienced recruits, so all his skills are higher level and he comes with an extra camp skill, saving quite a bit of gold. I like to take him for the pounder, sometimes for the prophet, and most of all if I’m looking for a shambler. Those are the situations where I’m most likely to transform and rake is better in longer fights while rage provides high damage against priority enemies in rank three. You can transform in regular battles but it’s usually only a good idea if you have a stress healer, or are about to camp, or just think you’ll take more stress if you don’t transform (you need to kill a madman or a drowned thrall for example). Most of the time he’s just around to stun, blight, and soak up punishment, but he can bring the pain. Just… learn from my mistakes and don’t ever try to fight the sleeper with him.
That really sucks.
Abomination has my favourite concept in DD.
I tried many times, never got it to work.
I thought it was because I suck, now I realize that both me and abomination suck. 😟
Abom, Arba, Antiq. The AAA of units deleted from my heroes folder entirely.
I played Darkest Dungeon like 2 years ago, but I seen your videos and it got me back into it. I’m currently trying to beat the game on Bloodmoon to get the platinum trophy! A lot of things are different from the last time I played. Is Darkest Dungeon still being updated?
Since Darkest dungeon 2 is so close red hook stopped updating the game, mods are still going tho
@@budinhapalmieri Unfortunately, I play on PS4 so no cool mods for me. Is there a release date for Darkest Dungeon 2? That sounds dope!
@@BornFromEmbers nothing specific that i remember, it's scheduled to somewhen like august, but hey, since DD2 is on the horizon they are doing some crazy sales on steam, they did it twice this year and i expect more,
Abos are damn fast and are even faster after camp cheaply. I play Grave Robbers and Abos only on my current stygian run, beating 6 shamblers losing 1 Grave Robber after 50 weeks. You only transform in fights that are worth it and with the right trinket you reduce stress 40%. The blight reduction goes well with other blighters in long fights. Acompanied with 2 Graverobber Flashing Daggers you can tripple hit position 2 and 3 before even the fastest enemy has its turn. The high speed easily allow high prot trinkets that reduce speed, like Heavy boots and some padlocks. Making Abos high speed tanks, optional high damage output, stress relief and heal, stun and blight.
Sure I am super late, but I run a Jester-Occultist-Abom-Leper and I honestly like how Abom's playstyle meshes together with this team, he usually outspeeds the occultist and stuns rank three, which means occultist can then pull rank 4 to the front for leper, human form helps a lot to keep control of the fight and his transform is a late-fight cleaner for when you require the extra damage
I like it because I can run a more control-based version of the team that can then switch into an all-out damage nuke if needed, which I honestly think is Abom's playstyle's strength, he isnt the best of either world but he can do something not many heroes can in which you can accomodate two playstyles into the same team depending on what you think is best
That torch snuff for the better loot was dirty.
Honestly I must have gotten just a completely different experience because Everytime I used Abomination in my runs it always just went smoothly. I gotta admit I was quite lucky with the Positive Quirks he got, and I spose I usually always run some sort of stress healer but yeah he would consistently be a character I never had to worry about dying or stressing out etc. It's hard to look at a base character now especially after the hundreds of hours with obvious buffed up heroes.
Though on a different note as someone who is new to your channel, it is very interesting to see the evolution in your rankings and feelings for heroes in such a short time span, when in reality this would be over the course of a long period of time.
A unique Affliction for Abom of transofrming and not being able to go back would be awesome, it'd also be cool if he attacked the mobs and you couldnt control him, and maybe he even gets more powerful because you'd think the beast taking control would make him a lot stronger without the control. It's too bad Red Hook isn't looking at more balancing. I like transformation characters in games but as you've seen me comment before, Abom Transforming is crap :p.
Has anyone tested Restraining Padlock to see if he gets 40% less stress overall in Beast Mode? Looking at it closer, it may very well be useful if it does give that much less stress, to keep him from afflicting (I had an abom virtue during a shambler fight while transformed [yes I’m aware that that was an awful idea but shambles needs raking]).
If he gets that much less stress, it makes Beast Mode more viable in high stress places
I feel like his main gimmick which is transform is absolutely useless, honestly this is a button I never want to press, his damage in transform is ok but nothing outstanding, with low acc as well, and his most unique ability is cleave, which are kind of bad most of the time. AND HE ALSO STRESSES. Why is that!? His stun skill deals decent damage anyway, why bite when you can bonk lmao.
I think a big issue with transform is the party stress. Abom can keep himself under control with absolution, but nuking the party each fight is much harder to deal with.
@@ShuffleFM Or make Restraining Padlock do that (-100% party stress -40% self stress). It'll still be a problem to gear him up to keep this damage up to point, but if you sacrifice human side completely other than few absolutions here and there it can work out. Candle would be a good choice I presume, he wants just a little bit of damage and some acc on top. Overall, like Leper, but with actually existing dodge and speed, less usable self heal and more reach. And you can bonk to stall and/or as first move. It can even be strong, there is no really fast high damage character maybe other than SB, but SB is broken let's not compare the worst and the best character lmao.
Circumsy Abomination is my favourite mod for that reason.
I just like to spam puke.
I really like using the abomination in my dedicated cove party of blighting the hell out of everything in order
Plague doctor, grave robber, abomination, and hellion
*knock on wood* they haven’t let me down yet and I wish I could have him transform more often I primarily just use it against boss fights anymore
I don’t understand Abom hate. At all. He’s one of the most fun heroes to use and he’s super effective. Yeah, he needs set up. So does Leper, Bounty Hunter, Arbalest, and Grave Robber. If you find his transform inconvenient, let me introduce you to Jester, who fixes his accuracy, stress heals on command, and gives him such outrageous crits that stress is a thing of the past and battles are done in 3 turns.
Or, if uninterested in Jester, perhaps a Houndmaster would suffice, who can cry havoc (1) once and totally offset all of abom’s stress damage to team and then some.
Abom hits rank 3 with a stun and a leper strength damage attack, has the second best self heal in the game, and is fast enough to tear apart most teams before they have a chance to retaliate. Abom is the best character thematically and easily the most satisfying to use well.
This message brought to you by the Fuck Leper gang.
You had me until you said Fuck Leper
Abomination can be quite weak if you compare him directly to other heroes, however he also has one strong side that's stronger than for most, if not all, other heroes: reliability. Sure, he is basically locked in pos2-3 (not as bad as being locked into any other 2 positions) , but from a mechanic perspective if you fit him there, he will do anything. He can do damage, he can do some control (and a really strong debuff) with knockback, he can blight, stun, (stress) heal himself. If you don't have a stress healer in your team, but plenty of "normal" healing, you can just casually use him as a stress tank by giving him some stress at the beginning of a dungeon (like reading some uncanny writings or paintings) and trying to keep it at that lvl as you progress the dungeon - hard play, but a rewarding one.
Of course he has a stun, stuns are good, and with appropriate trinkets he has one of the highest base chances to stun. Cleave blight can be invaluable in Cove and especially Ruins, where Jester's sickle blunts so to speak. Against Shambler he is a monster (literally) just because Rake spam quickly puts his damage above Leper's while maintaining higher accuracy (the only downsides is that it requires you to play dedicated beast abom, i.e. pick certain trinkets and lock certain quirks, and usually you won't do that, but come on Leper is unplayable against shambler).
And the most important thing: he is just too damn sexy in beast form
i know he's shit but the fact that he can suddenly transform into this eldritch werewolf just makes him by far the coolest hero in the game for me.
I hope I didn't give the impression that he's trash in this video. He is still fun and can do well, it's just that he has some serious issues compared to others.
@@ShuffleFM Maybe you could research mods for him that retool his character to be more viable and let us know which is the best to use without breaking the character.
Antiquarians reliefed that they arent the one getting trashed
A funny thing I've noticed about how I play abomination is that sometimes I just start spamming absolution after the early chain lash/bile.
Sure it works similarly to Leper's solemnity but I feel like I can use abomination as a sponge for dmg and stress dmg without losing out as much as I would with Leper who's there solely to end the game's entire career with big dmg, so there's that going for abomination in my eyes if I happen to need said sponge potential.
I did have him perform really well in one of the endless crystal battles. Just transformed once and wreaked havoc the whole fight.
Honestly, even though his base human form skills aren’t always the best, I get a lot of value out of his human form regardless, Abomination in human form is really less of a damage dealer and more of a support that you would use alongside other stun heroes and those that get more damage value from stunned or blighted enemies.
That being said, his monster form and the stress it deals is sometimes quite difficult to use reliably, though usually I don’t rely on a stress healing build so that might be why.
His monster form is more like a panic button for when things aren’t going your way and you need to deal damage faster
From my experience he is the one of the heroes I always have 1 of in my rooster. I never felt too have more than that.
I like to keep a pair of Abominations on my roster to fight the Shrieker boss. Bring a Jester or M-A-A for accuracy buffs and hulk out, ez corvid quirks
Abomination is just a stun bot. His stress penalties are annoying in the long run. He's completely outclassed by Occultist or Crusader tbh.
I love to use double Abom in dd1, but except that, Abom is mostly good for panic damage. If you want blight or stuns there are just better options. All in all pretty weird generalist.
Ani me girl
I've never used abomination once. When I read his powers I could tell he seemed bad
Abom is the worst....
Abom: proceeds to curb-stomp the collector
Part of the reason I made sure to state that "worst" doesn't mean bad or unplayable :)
@@ShuffleFM I just thought i was a funny coincidence. Love your channel man, really helped step up my game. Thanks for the top notch quality content!
Only reason why I agree is because I can’t see any other class taking the title.
I think the biggest issue is that having all ur stuff across 2 forms that u gotta switch between that also does Real Damage (stress) as opposed to Fake Damage (HP) sucks. also he gets outpaced in terms of damage and utility by. literally anyone else who's good at anything
You simply are not ready for coming of our Lord and Savior Bigby the Abomination, also known as walking stun machine
I'm surprise you didn't go for the defacto weakest hero antiquarian. She's much more of a liability than abom, her biggest strength just being a money printer. Other than that, her dodge spam vapors take a while to build and her attacks get neuter by the increasing prot, HP, and resistances of harder enemies. By the time she sets up, a different hero in her place could've killed or stun an enemy. In any case, I do still agree with the points you made in this video and find it sad that Abomination's key mechanic has to be shelved for almost the entire quest.
Anti is harder to rate because she does a lot for you that isn't battle related. She's also strong in dodge comps so she has a place for some teams.
Imo making his transformaton no longer inflict stress, but it would only last a couple rounds wouldnt be unbalanced
You're telling me he's worse than GR?
Cmon' man :(
@@Shadowlurker4897 oh god
Shes our waifu and shes not trash.
I love abomination. Vast, jester, crusader with abom in rank 1 transform is beast. Imo great party to wreck.
im late to the show here. problem with abom has always been someone can do his role, another class can do better. like if i want a stun bot ill take bounty hunter for example. if i want a plauger, plague doctor. high front rank damage, hellion or leper. but his strength is that he can do all of those things, just not as well. hes a jack of trades sort of, hes not bad, but hes also not good. but he is fun.
also i remember a time when multiple abominations were used for speedruns!
My favorite thing about the leper is how people hate him but as soon as they use him proper he becomes S tier in their head or at least A. Every time.
Leper > Everything else
"S"? A- or B. Bleeds too easily & Acc is a problem.
@@paulberry5750 accuracy is a problem? Dude. Theres plenty of easy ways to fix it and the fact that his base damage is so high mitigates that easy enough. Bleeds also not that big a deal, he can out heal it easy or just nuke the dudes that cause it. Or bandage/pd. All you need is a focus ring
@@averynewtown2782 You've had better luck than me. I'm sick of having a minimum of 2 healers keeping him from failing his first DeathBlow check...
@@paulberry5750 how did your leper get to deaths door?!
did 300 kills achievment in harvest with him on rank 1 with crimson court trinket set
Important thing to keep in mind, ranking heroes in DD is always difficult, because no hero is ever "horrible" or "unplayable." Some are just "worse" than others. Even antiquarian can be pretty damn good with how high the dodge can go. (Plus gold!!!)
Honestly the lowest any DD hero can be is C tier.