Looking at this scene and look at how 2019 Midway was done, I don't see any comparison at all; this is so much better. The CGI is used just enough and it's based on human drama instead of how many explosions they can splash onto the screen.
No wonder Tamon Yamaguchi chose to go down with Hiryu. His impulse to close the range with the American carriers was understandably noble, but very foolish. He might've saved the last carrier at Midway if he hadn't let revenge overtake him. Yamamoto saw him as a potential replacement for himself in the future.
As per Parshall & Tully in "Shattered Sword", it was Nagumo that dragged Hiryu towards Task Forces 16 & 17, putting it at risk. It would have been better to leave Hiryu behind as Nagumo took his fleet in a surface sweep in search of the Americans.
I've seen the two photos of the Val's suicide attack, but I thought they were of USS Hornet at the Battle of Santa Cruz in October 1942. Yorktown took two or three bomb hits from Hiryu 's Vals at Midway. The most serious one went down the smokestack and knocked out all of her boilers temporarily. She had only built up enough steam to make 15 knots for evasive maneuvers when Hiryu 's Kate's followed 2 hours later.@@wowsblitzkorea
One of the greatest ironies of this entire engagement was the Japanese wargames suggested this could happen. BUT, the wargame umpires over ruled the results and ordered the officers who commanded the American force to move according to THEIR (the Japanese High Command's) ideas.
@@Kevin_Kennelly Recommend you read "Shattered Sword" by Parshall and Tully, a very detailed analysis of Midway from the Japanese perspective. A book which, by the way, refutes several items in the movie (for example, the Japanese carrier decks were NOT full of planes when the fatal five minutes occurred as depicted here and Hiryu did not have a radar which was tracking the incoming US dive bomber strike). It is quite true that during wargames testing the Midway battle plan a US carrier force appeared on the flank of the Japanese force pretty close to where TF 16 and TF 17 actually did appear. In the wargame the umpires limited the damage to just losing Kaga. And after that in the wargame Kaga re-appeared to help the invasion of Midway.
@@mikecondray4805 Kevin_Kennely might also read "The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945", by John Toland (I have a hardback copy), which was written using interviews from surviving Imperial Japanese forces and staff members. That same war game scenario is mentioned there.
The beginning of the war was wrong. Every choice has consequences, and in World War II, Japan's own mistake was that the roles of the Army and Navy were very separate. I mourn the victims of the war.
They had no advance notice that the dive bombers or torpedo planes were approaching. So the dialogue on the bridge is absolutely non-sensical. Impressive special effects but nonsense like the dialogue about the approaching planes really ruins it. Additionally, the Japanese carriers were not in the process of launching their strike when they were hit.
It almost felt like a dig at Admiral Nagumo considering that that dialogue was taking place on the Hiryu and not Akagi; as though he deserved more shame for the loss of his task force than he was already responsible for. Then again, they did slam Nagumo on the 2019 "Midway" film a little to hard for supposedly not doing enough to ravage Pearl Harbor. Yay film liberties.
Well in hindsight there were better candidates to command the Kido Butai. However we will never know their true potential because many of them were dead by the end of Guadalcanal Campaign. But remember as well that Midway was the second Carrier vs Carrier battle in history, with the first being at Coral Sea. Neither the US Navy or the Imperial Japanese Navy had truly figured out the best ways to get the most out of their carriers. The Kido Butai was an extremely competent and experienced force; they had been building experience through very high standards of training, very modern aircraft (IJN were in fact onto their 2nd generation of monoplane carrier aircraft whereas many other navies were just transitioning to their first). That being said they did have fundamental flaws in their doctrine and support (lack of radio use for their CAP, pretty much non-existent fire direction for their AA batteries and poor damage control processes to name a few) which never came to their attention as they never had any major reversals which required any reforms. I really doubt there was much Nagumo could have done differently that would have resulted in Japanese victory at Midway. He did his best based on his own experience and the confines of the doctrine. The best he could have hoped for was a draw and losing 2 fleet carriers.
Looking at this scene and look at how 2019 Midway was done, I don't see any comparison at all; this is so much better. The CGI is used just enough and it's based on human drama instead of how many explosions they can splash onto the screen.
No wonder Tamon Yamaguchi chose to go down with Hiryu. His impulse to close the range with the American carriers was understandably noble, but very foolish. He might've saved the last carrier at Midway if he hadn't let revenge overtake him. Yamamoto saw him as a potential replacement for himself in the future.
Since it is a movie, it seems like there are some adaptations.
As per Parshall & Tully in "Shattered Sword", it was Nagumo that dragged Hiryu towards Task Forces 16 & 17, putting it at risk. It would have been better to leave Hiryu behind as Nagumo took his fleet in a surface sweep in search of the Americans.
The suicide attack was not performed with a Zero (as depicted here); but with a Val Dive Bomber (photos captured the moment of the attack itself).....
Your historical facts are correct.
I've seen the two photos of the Val's suicide attack, but I thought they were of USS Hornet at the Battle of Santa Cruz in October 1942. Yorktown took two or three bomb hits from Hiryu 's Vals at Midway. The most serious one went down the smokestack and knocked out all of her boilers temporarily. She had only built up enough steam to make 15 knots for evasive maneuvers when Hiryu 's Kate's followed 2 hours later.@@wowsblitzkorea
@@michaelfranklin4276 Yes, you are right. It's so easy to get these sorts of things confused.
What a great re-make
Read Shattered Sword ... watch The Unauthorized History of World War 2 series ... simply incredible ...
A prime example of how proper research and history is done. I've also enjoyed Hornfischer's books, particularly Neptune's Inferno.
Why are all the Japanese carriers depicted as having their islands on the port side? Only Akagi and Hiryu had port side islands.
This movie has some historical inaccuracies.
One of the greatest ironies of this entire engagement was the Japanese wargames suggested this could happen. BUT, the wargame umpires over ruled the results and ordered the officers who commanded the American force to move according to THEIR (the Japanese High Command's) ideas.
Do you read your history from comic books?
Because none of what you say ever happened.
@@Kevin_Kennelly Maybe you should read something besides comic books.
@@Kevin_Kennelly Recommend you read "Shattered Sword" by Parshall and Tully, a very detailed analysis of Midway from the Japanese perspective. A book which, by the way, refutes several items in the movie (for example, the Japanese carrier decks were NOT full of planes when the fatal five minutes occurred as depicted here and Hiryu did not have a radar which was tracking the incoming US dive bomber strike).
It is quite true that during wargames testing the Midway battle plan a US carrier force appeared on the flank of the Japanese force pretty close to where TF 16 and TF 17 actually did appear. In the wargame the umpires limited the damage to just losing Kaga. And after that in the wargame Kaga re-appeared to help the invasion of Midway.
@@mikecondray4805 Kevin_Kennely might also read "The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945", by John Toland (I have a hardback copy), which was written using interviews from surviving Imperial Japanese forces and staff members. That same war game scenario is mentioned there.
The beginning of the war was wrong. Every choice has consequences, and in World War II, Japan's own mistake was that the roles of the Army and Navy were very separate. I mourn the victims of the war.
They had no advance notice that the dive bombers or torpedo planes were approaching. So the dialogue on the bridge is absolutely non-sensical. Impressive special effects but nonsense like the dialogue about the approaching planes really ruins it. Additionally, the Japanese carriers were not in the process of launching their strike when they were hit.
Thank you for preventing me from ranting about this trash movie
It almost felt like a dig at Admiral Nagumo considering that that dialogue was taking place on the Hiryu and not Akagi; as though he deserved more shame for the loss of his task force than he was already responsible for.
Then again, they did slam Nagumo on the 2019 "Midway" film a little to hard for supposedly not doing enough to ravage Pearl Harbor.
Yay film liberties.
何度も同じ過ちを海戦ごとに繰り返して
塩辛い期間に強力な海軍戦力を作った日本の能力は認めます。ただ軍国主義の暴走でアジアを搾取し、数多くの人々が死亡した戦争を作ったのは、未来にも日本の間違いで世界人に記憶されるでしょう。歴史は平和の未来に進むための教科書です。
Nagumo sucks
Well in hindsight there were better candidates to command the Kido Butai. However we will never know their true potential because many of them were dead by the end of Guadalcanal Campaign.
But remember as well that Midway was the second Carrier vs Carrier battle in history, with the first being at Coral Sea. Neither the US Navy or the Imperial Japanese Navy had truly figured out the best ways to get the most out of their carriers. The Kido Butai was an extremely competent and experienced force; they had been building experience through very high standards of training, very modern aircraft (IJN were in fact onto their 2nd generation of monoplane carrier aircraft whereas many other navies were just transitioning to their first). That being said they did have fundamental flaws in their doctrine and support (lack of radio use for their CAP, pretty much non-existent fire direction for their AA batteries and poor damage control processes to name a few) which never came to their attention as they never had any major reversals which required any reforms.
I really doubt there was much Nagumo could have done differently that would have resulted in Japanese victory at Midway. He did his best based on his own experience and the confines of the doctrine. The best he could have hoped for was a draw and losing 2 fleet carriers.