David Bohm, along with Einstein and others, are among the few who point out that science can never be more than a fabrication put together by images in the mind of an observer, a fact largely ignored in the scientific community today.
is science not a funny thing? I feel we could learn so much more if we could first understand ourselves. Trying to solve the mysteries of the universe seems silly when you consider that we don't even know who or what we are.
daniel passmore I think we must do both. If we try to understand and (even more so change) the outside world we bring our own distorted thinking with us which can distort the result. However, if we concentrate all our efforts only on understanding ourselves we can end up meditating under a tree while the forest is turned into paper which is used and thrown away. And we'll still be unsuccessful because we are trying to understand the mind with only the mind.the mind only works when connected to the outside world. So maybe we need both. Exploring the universe helps us understand ourselves and understanding our thought processses and assumptions and limitations helps us understand the universe.
It's from a one hour Conversation I had with my friend David Bohm in 1990, while we were in Amsterdam, Holland. Dutch TV asked him to do an interview - and he agreed if I would be the "interviewer".
David Bohm kind of cracked the code of reality a long time ago. He was a magnificent physicist. I would call him the B.O.A.T Brightest of all time But yet most people never heard of him..
This is an excerpt from a one hour conversation I had with Professor Bohm. I am considering making the whole of it available in DVD format with an accompanying copy of the text in booklet form. Those interested can contact me.
Roy dopson, very well said! But the desire to end seeking is another form of seeking. Siddhartha spoke of this in s story about the desire to end desire, it is a fruitless action. Rather than attempting to end seeking, one should inquire into the nature of seeking itself, see it holistically without attachment or aversion, without past conditioning, just to see it naked as it is without a wish to end it. In that very seeing truth will reveal itself.
How nice! "Thinking is perception" means that the mind that thinks is our 6th perceptive faculty along with our five senses, just as in the ancient Indian philosophy.
This is brilliant. So simple. So when we die, we drop the body, which is also part of perception. This is from Schopenhauer and advaita and it rings true to me at least.
The thing that's hard for some to comprehend about K since one rarely saw him except on a stage was that he was not like those pompous, quasi-mystical, holier-than-thou so-called "Spiritual Teachers" -- which is an oxymoron. Under "normal" circumstances, he was a simple, unassuming, quite shy -- unless he knew you -- quite ordinary human being. But when he -- I don't know -- "connected" (!)and words started pouring out with such profound clarity, that was something else again...
Glad to find this vid. Bohm, in my estimation was a really brilliant and original thinker. I first heard of him in a book by Rene Weber titled 'Dialogues With Scientists and Sages".
However, once... I was walking along a back road in Ojai CA. with my son,who was only about 8 at the time when we happened to cross paths with K... After exchanging a few brief words,we continued on our separate ways... when all of a sudden, everything around us, road, grass, flowers, everything(!) seemed amazingly clearer in my perception... That clarity of vision stayed with me (us?) for at least an hour or so, possibly longer ... until it just "faded away" END OF PART TWO-MORE TO COME
Its too bad we cant see life in a view in which we all have a different lens to share the same life, peoples faiths and views are supposed to compliment each other with compassion not with total difference and hatred. Great speech from a fantastic scientist.
Calling him "Murti" reminds me of a time when I was still working in Hollywood as a comedy writer -- and I got a Christmas Card from a comedy writer friend of mine signed "Krishna and Mrs. Murti" What was K like? I considered him a good friend...Almost always available to talk to, as a friend... and believe it or not, he had a great sense of humor!
Complicated question, since there are so many different times to recall... from having lunch together, to walking across the English countryside together, to sitting in a small discussion group talking about what was happening in our thought processes at that moment, to sitting and looking out over the Pacific Ocean together, in total silence -- the "experience" of which I have no residual remembrance... END OF PART ONE (We're only allowed 500 words) MORE TO COME
Logic is like rings that are connected but never touch. When you move one ring you also move another, but you cannot make them connect in other ways than you move them. The grammatical rules of reality is the same everywhere, but not the same content, not the same words. This is fascinating, indeed.
I've had plans to release the entire video as a DVD along with a book I'm writing about my life and my long term relationship with Dave (as he perferred to be called) and the man who introduced us way back in '73, J.Krishmaurti... Am presently also looking into the poissibility of using the conversation as a foundation for an extended Television program about all of Dave's work (which we discussed during the hour) and it's relationship to Consciousness.
I agree Samothracian, it is our perception of time as a construct that becomes our reality of it. However, what point were you trying to make before when responding to the question "Sam what is the truth?", as clearly our perception is possibly wrong (not definitely, just possibly).
"The looking glass" & "The Glass Eye" or "The Eye tooth" Perception can see it in forward motion, as this is relative to our interpretation. But to fathom it in reverse will allow us to manifest future realities. By perceiving those signals thru unconscious acquisition. Those in doubt will only play out their destiny, as strong affirmations only play a 9% chance of free will. A strong desire & connection with the vibration of the universe can only interact with these precognitive ones. 2 paths
One of his assertions that really intrigued me was that all of physical space is underlaid by a non physical energy field. iI is a disturbance in this field that causes the formation of particles, or quantumn fields. He said that 1 sq. cm. of this non physical field contained more energy than the entire physical universe. Bohm claimed that this is fully supported by infallible quantumn mechanical mathematical models.
Well there is a conversation between Jiddu krishnamurti and David Bohm on youtube which elaborates on the total perception, or the full approach as you verbalize it. I think they were talking in terms of the thinking brain as the over dominant part and the mind as the whole: so emotions and feelings are part of the mind, not just the thinking brain, which forms ideas and theories. In that light, ideas are seen as the warping factor, distorting reality.
Those wishing to contact the individual talking with Professor Bohm in this excerpt (from a one-hour conversation) may do so via the accompanying " @Samothracian" RUclips reference.
As far as I've come to understand science is not really concerned with truth so much as functional truth and not so much knowledge so much as functional knowledge. what we do with that functional knowledge/truth has to do with the "full approach," which lies in philosophy.
Awesome, I think he was trying to say, our perception and reality are one and the same, out limited view is contained in the sphere. backed by our own reality.
Everything is information, and reality codes that information by its own procession. By such a definition of life, all matter, and matter itself, is a "living being". Forget the term living, its just a word, what is life without the word for It. Everything is alive, and nothing is conscious.
@WazDDR I agree on your premise that knowing yourself is important. But I don't agree that it is more important than scientific knowledge. Are you now saying that the bible wasn't written by god and that it is not the inherent word of "Him"? You're making progress.
Hard to believe, but there was a time when there were no cell phones, there was no e-mail, not even computers... and... now hold your breath... no RUclips!
...natural science has shown a curious mixture of rationalism and irrationalism. Its prevalent tone of thoughts has been ardently rationalistiic within its own borders, and dogmatically irrational beyond those borders. In practice such an attitude tends to become a dogmatic denial that there are any factors in the world not fully expressible in terms of its own primary notions devoid of further generalization. Such denial is the self-denial of thought. -Alfred North Whitehead, Process And Reality
Einstein liked the book Bohm wrote about it... But both agreed also that there was something missing in QT's statistical conclusions... Which Bohm attempted to go beyond in his final opus - The Undivided Universe.
This entire one-hour-plus video can be viewed by GOOGLING the following website: "WAKING UP TO ALZHEIMER'S". It's under the category "Beyond Limits: A Tribute to David Bohm".
> Why do humans hate the truth? > To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth." Oops! I may have misquoted Mr. Nicholson, who, by the way I spotted attending at least one Krishnamurti Talk back in the '70's. I believe the exact quote is: "You (WE) can't handle the truth". The word "handle" seems much more to the point. ... and blah, blah, blah...
Oh, but I did - bweono! In fact I'm in the process of developing a major project based on what Professor Bohm took the time to teach me during the 20 years of our friendship .... So stay tuned.....
a form of "jnana Yoga' - approaching 'truth' through the mind... it's one way... what about a full approach? include the heart , the body, the emotions? a 'Full' approach just because our current (un)Civlization worships the 'mind' doesn't mean it's balanced
My point being that the question can't be answered by a mind whose Perception is "skewed" to use your word. Somehow we have to exricate ourselves from the incoherence. Then maybe... just maybe... we can perceive what really "IS"!...Or what some people call "Truth"... and that's what Bohm's and Krishnamurti's work were all about...
Rather than repeating myself... I just posted a long response to homeborn's "but how did you feelinside" ...let's see if it shows up... if not, I'll send along another one, later...
@MyConsciousnessLives what does not change is real. What you are in your essence; at your core, your 'I AM', does not change, it does not move. "your" I AM is always the same. Ref: Ramana Maharshi, 'I AM That' by Nisargardatta, Jesus' I AM quotes, Mark West and Douglas Harding in youtube, wei wu wei, . Locate your I AM (a feeling NOT a thought) and stay there....regards!
Samothracian, I'd like to raise a point you made... " TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain...." That's not a logical assumption. In any case, it is our PERCEPTION of time that is a human construct, not the reality. By using our brains we do not create time itself, time occurs but our view of it is skewed by our human understanding. IMO, of course.
> Why do humans hate the truth? To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth." Also, re: this little gem of yours..."oh dear i expected u for one to be a bit evolved" ... "Murti" stated and David Bohm (remember him? -that's where all this began) agreed, that "there is no such thing as psychological evolution"... and we, my friend, appear to be illustrating this fact,as we continue with this blah, blah, blah ...
>what other word would u prefer me to use? U think they are seperate??????????????? Forgt about what I think, I'm absolutely fascinated by this extraordinary web of assumptions you seem to be weaving... please, go on...
ok but this doesn't imply that science do give mankind more power as time goes on...developing technology and such that enables to be free from its condition and ultimately change reality ... i mean it's not useless in the sense of progress at the least (not to mention that he admitted knoledge to be a possible and actual product of scientific activity)
> If u think that murti was the only one to ever experience the unkown then u are deluded. What are we talking about here? "Truth"? Or the "Unknown"? Or something that apparently you're deeply interested in,that you can't quite describe with a word?
@WazDDR I don't agree (yet again) with the claim that scientific knowledge has alway been around. An honest look at history must make this clear. People in the middle ages and before thought lightning was there because the gods were angry at them. Or did fully know about Maxwell equations of electromagnetism? Be serious for once.
> Sam what is the truth? Maybe a good place to begin is to explain what it ain't... And to do that, we can go back to the other guy you enquired about, early on Dave B.'s other friend. Albert E. ... who proved, as far as science can prove anything, that TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain.... Are you with me so far?
@niriop Not quite, in all time in all space it nearly never exists. But existence is just a STATUS at that exact time and exact space reletive to the sensor. This entire 100% correct relative to humans because the true answer over all space and time is not possible to humans.
"Murti", said a lot more than that... It appears that everyone wants to experience the "Unknown",like it's some humongous Hollywood-style Special Effect! i.e., ("The Big U") --- without first figuring out how to free ourselves from "The Known"...which is what we actually are... i.e. our greed, our hate, our loneliness, our jealousies, our deepest desires, sacred or profane, etc... First figure that out, says "Murti", then maybe.... maybe... if you "leave the window open"...
@WazDDR Well I understand what you're getting at. That ancient knowledge somehow had been right all the way. They're not. Religion (also hinduism) leads away from the true objective nature of reality (that which we can be sure of). Know that the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory (google it) has many opponents today in modern physics. Indeed, the world of the very small is very strange to us. But connecting modern day scientific theories with ancient 'knowledge' is one bridge too far.
@WazDDR They knew how quantum theory works? Then why were they riding a donkey instead of flying anti-gravity aircrafts. Get real dude they didn't know (if they even existed, which is to be doubted historically).
David Bohm, along with Einstein and others, are among the few who point out that science can never be more than a fabrication put together by images in the mind of an observer, a fact largely ignored in the scientific community today.
Being open about the epistemological redundancy of modern academic science is not a secure way to guarantee research grants or tenure
John Mailk that's because the science community of today's ego is so big they are starting resemble a church and its not a good thing
is science not a funny thing? I feel we could learn so much more if we could first understand ourselves. Trying to solve the mysteries of the universe seems silly when you consider that we don't even know who or what we are.
daniel passmore I think we must do both. If we try to understand and (even more so change) the outside world we bring our own distorted thinking with us which can distort the result.
However, if we concentrate all our efforts only on understanding ourselves we can end up meditating under a tree while the forest is turned into paper which is used and thrown away.
And we'll still be unsuccessful because we are trying to understand the mind with only the mind.the mind only works when connected to the outside world.
So maybe we need both. Exploring the universe helps us understand ourselves and understanding our thought processses and assumptions and limitations helps us understand the universe.
daniel passmore excellent point..
It's from a one hour Conversation I had with my friend David Bohm in 1990, while we were in Amsterdam, Holland. Dutch TV asked him to do an interview - and he agreed if I would be the "interviewer".
David Bohm kind of cracked the code of reality a long time ago.
He was a magnificent physicist.
I would call him the B.O.A.T
Brightest of all time
But yet most people never heard of him..
May I ask, what you mean by 'cracked the code of reality'? Please do tell me as I am writing an essay on David Bohm.
@@InduceComb having a deep understanding into the Brahma/ God / Truth my friend !
yep, super intelligent, flew under the radar
I comprehend some of this, my goal is to one day more fully understand it. Thank you for sharing!
If you take it in bits by bits, you won't see it ever, i say it becuase religion have been doing it all the time and just look what have they done?
Buddhism and mushrooms my friend.. and ALOT of studying and comprehensive research
A Man of Science where personal Ego takes the backseat…So Rare
well said
This is an excerpt from a one hour conversation I had with Professor Bohm. I am considering making the whole of it available in DVD format with an accompanying copy of the text in booklet form. Those interested can contact me.
I am deeply interested
'theater of the mind' bravo mr bohm! this man is a great thinker
wonderfully intelligent, insightful man
Roy dopson, very well said! But the desire to end seeking is another form of seeking. Siddhartha spoke of this in s story about the desire to end desire, it is a fruitless action. Rather than attempting to end seeking, one should inquire into the nature of seeking itself, see it holistically without attachment or aversion, without past conditioning, just to see it naked as it is without a wish to end it. In that very seeing truth will reveal itself.
How nice! "Thinking is perception" means that the mind that thinks is our 6th perceptive faculty along with our five senses, just as in the ancient Indian philosophy.
Rajiv Bhole we have way more than 5 senses
Thinking tells you what something is ~Carl Jung
This is brilliant. So simple. So when we die, we drop the body, which is also part of perception. This is from Schopenhauer and advaita and it rings true to me at least.
Except their is no "we" or "i" who drops the body. It is more like the body just drops away.
Shamrock Trinity yes, well said.
He was not schizophrenic. He was one of the clearest thinkers of all time.
Was he diagnosed with schizo?
Brilliant, beautiful, and inspiring man 😊👍
The thing that's hard for some to comprehend about K since one rarely saw him except on a stage was that he was not like those pompous, quasi-mystical, holier-than-thou so-called "Spiritual Teachers" -- which is an oxymoron. Under "normal" circumstances, he was a simple, unassuming, quite shy -- unless he knew you -- quite ordinary human being. But when he -- I don't know -- "connected" (!)and words started pouring out with such profound clarity, that was something else again...
A moment will come to pass and thus you will understand.
Glad to find this vid. Bohm, in my estimation was a really brilliant and original thinker. I first heard of him in a book by Rene Weber titled 'Dialogues With Scientists and Sages".
However, once... I was walking along a back road in Ojai CA. with my son,who was only about 8 at the time when we happened to cross paths with K... After exchanging a few brief words,we continued on our separate ways... when all of a sudden, everything around us, road, grass, flowers, everything(!) seemed amazingly clearer in my perception... That clarity of vision stayed with me (us?) for at least an hour or so, possibly longer ... until it just "faded away"
END OF PART TWO-MORE TO COME
Its too bad we cant see life in a view in which we all have a different lens to share the same life, peoples faiths and views are supposed to compliment each other with compassion not with total difference and hatred. Great speech from a fantastic scientist.
Calling him "Murti" reminds me of a time when I was still working in Hollywood as a comedy writer -- and I got a Christmas Card from a comedy writer friend of mine signed "Krishna and Mrs. Murti"
What was K like? I considered him a good friend...Almost always available to talk to, as a friend... and believe it or not, he had a great sense of humor!
On Dialogue - David Bohm PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbcTduQiigneWpSZFoxLTJxbUk/edit?usp=sharing
Complicated question, since there are so many different times to recall... from having lunch together, to walking across the English countryside together, to sitting in a small discussion group talking about what was happening in our thought processes at that moment, to sitting and looking out over the Pacific Ocean together, in total silence -- the "experience" of which I have no residual remembrance...
END OF PART ONE (We're only allowed 500 words) MORE TO COME
The Essential David Bohm PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbcTduQiignc194QU14YmZiTUU/edit?usp=sharing
Thought as a System - David Bohm PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbcTduQiignaXozNlRJUVBnN00/edit?usp=sharing
Downloaded. Thanks a lot!
Thank you!
Thanks Samothracian, for answering my questions.
Form is emptiness; emptiness is form
Logic is like rings that are connected but never touch. When you move one ring you also move another, but you cannot make them connect in other ways than you move them. The grammatical rules of reality is the same everywhere, but not the same content, not the same words. This is fascinating, indeed.
This guy is a genius
Big ThankYou !!!
Thank You Sir!
i must agree. he was usually lost, which resulted in some very significant insights in to the nature of thought and the sciences.
I've had plans to release the entire video as a DVD along with a book I'm writing about my life and my long term relationship with Dave (as he perferred to be called) and the man who introduced us way back in '73, J.Krishmaurti... Am presently also looking into the poissibility of using the conversation as a foundation for an extended Television program about all of Dave's work (which we discussed during the hour) and it's relationship to Consciousness.
"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to vary greatly based upon our own point of view" -- Obi-Wan Kenobi
we can never get a hold of real knowledge through mind, but the experiencer is real.
This is the same as Schopenhauers theory of perception, following Kant. Amazing stuff. So we are in a Kantian cave then?
I agree Samothracian, it is our perception of time as a construct that becomes our reality of it. However, what point were you trying to make before when responding to the question "Sam what is the truth?", as clearly our perception is possibly wrong (not definitely, just possibly).
"The looking glass" & "The Glass Eye" or "The Eye tooth" Perception can see it in forward motion, as this is relative to our interpretation. But to fathom it in reverse will allow us to manifest future realities. By perceiving those signals thru unconscious acquisition. Those in doubt will only play out their destiny, as strong affirmations only play a 9% chance of free will. A strong desire & connection with the vibration of the universe can only interact with these precognitive ones. 2 paths
I'm a fan.
One of his assertions that really intrigued me was that all of physical space is underlaid by a non physical energy field. iI is a disturbance in this field that causes the formation of particles, or quantumn fields. He said that 1 sq. cm. of this non physical field contained more energy than the entire physical universe. Bohm claimed that this is fully supported by infallible quantumn mechanical mathematical models.
Well there is a conversation between Jiddu krishnamurti and David Bohm on youtube which elaborates on the total perception, or the full approach as you verbalize it.
I think they were talking in terms of the thinking brain as the over dominant part and the mind as the whole: so emotions and feelings are part of the mind, not just the thinking brain, which forms ideas and theories. In that light, ideas are seen as the warping factor, distorting reality.
You're right ...but so am I... it's our PERCEPTION of a CONSTRUCT... and that's what becomes our Reality.
Just because we deconstruct the structure, does not mean that it is not there
Those wishing to contact the individual talking with Professor Bohm in this excerpt (from a one-hour conversation) may do so via the accompanying " @Samothracian" RUclips reference.
grandiosidade de sabedoria...
As far as I've come to understand science is not really concerned with truth so much as functional truth and not so much knowledge so much as functional knowledge. what we do with that functional knowledge/truth has to do with the "full approach," which lies in philosophy.
Awesome, I think he was trying to say, our perception and reality are one and the same, out limited view is contained in the sphere. backed by our own reality.
GOD is Life, we are just a reflection of his greatness....thoughts, in his mind...
Wisdom!
Everything is information, and reality codes that information by its own procession. By such a definition of life, all matter, and matter itself, is a "living being". Forget the term living, its just a word, what is life without the word for It. Everything is alive, and nothing is conscious.
@WazDDR Ok I agree with what you said here.
Thanks for the interesting conversation.
Okay... I'll try to remember what I said, and send it again...
Meaning and Information - David Bohm PDF: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbcTduQiigndDFKakRmYUpTclU/edit?usp=sharing
Downloaded. Thanks a lot!
This document is a real jewel ... (I didn't read the other ones yet) - Thank you!
very smart chap
@WazDDR I agree on your premise that knowing yourself is important. But I don't agree that it is more important than scientific knowledge.
Are you now saying that the bible wasn't written by god and that it is not the inherent word of "Him"? You're making progress.
donde puedo encontrar videos de bohm traducidos al español?
And all the time I thought this was a serious discussion... Sorry, I'm new to this form of communicating... Have a nice life...
@JohananRaatz The laws themselves were around. The discussion was about whether mankind always knew about them, which is obviously a no.
Hard to believe, but there was a time when there were no cell phones, there was no e-mail, not even computers... and... now hold your breath... no RUclips!
...natural science has shown a curious mixture of rationalism and irrationalism. Its prevalent tone of thoughts has been ardently rationalistiic within its own borders, and dogmatically irrational beyond those borders. In practice such an attitude tends to become a dogmatic denial that there are any factors in the world not fully expressible in terms of its own primary notions devoid of further generalization. Such denial is the self-denial of thought. -Alfred North Whitehead, Process And Reality
Einstein liked the book Bohm wrote about it... But both agreed also that there was something missing in QT's statistical conclusions... Which Bohm attempted to go beyond in his final opus - The Undivided Universe.
Knowledge is a BY PRODUCT
how freaking cool izzat
This entire one-hour-plus video can be viewed by GOOGLING the following website:
"WAKING UP TO ALZHEIMER'S". It's under the category "Beyond Limits: A Tribute to David Bohm".
Reminds me Kant on Sensibility.
> Why do humans hate the truth?
> To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth."
Oops! I may have misquoted Mr. Nicholson, who, by the way I spotted attending at least one Krishnamurti Talk back in the '70's.
I believe the exact quote is: "You (WE) can't handle the truth".
The word "handle" seems much more to the point.
... and blah, blah, blah...
Oh, but I did - bweono! In fact I'm in the process of developing a major project based on what Professor Bohm took the time to teach me during the 20 years of our friendship .... So stay tuned.....
Bout time this was said
a form of "jnana Yoga' - approaching 'truth' through the mind...
it's one way...
what about a full approach?
include the heart , the body, the emotions?
a
'Full' approach
just because our current (un)Civlization worships the 'mind' doesn't mean it's balanced
My point being that the question can't be answered by a mind whose Perception is "skewed" to use your word. Somehow we have to exricate ourselves from the incoherence. Then maybe... just maybe... we can perceive what really "IS"!...Or what some people call "Truth"... and that's what Bohm's and Krishnamurti's work were all about...
Rather than repeating myself... I just posted a long response to homeborn's "but how did you feelinside" ...let's see if it shows up... if not, I'll send along another one, later...
@MyConsciousnessLives what does not change is real. What you are in your essence; at your core, your 'I AM', does not change, it does not move. "your" I AM is always the same. Ref: Ramana Maharshi, 'I AM That' by Nisargardatta, Jesus' I AM quotes, Mark West and Douglas Harding in youtube, wei wu wei, . Locate your I AM (a feeling NOT a thought) and stay there....regards!
Samothracian, I'd like to raise a point you made... " TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain...."
That's not a logical assumption. In any case, it is our PERCEPTION of time that is a human construct, not the reality. By using our brains we do not create time itself, time occurs but our view of it is skewed by our human understanding. IMO, of course.
> Why do humans hate the truth?
To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men "You (WE) can't stand the truth."
Also, re: this little gem of yours..."oh dear i expected u for one to be a bit evolved" ... "Murti" stated and David Bohm (remember him? -that's where all this began) agreed, that "there is no such thing as psychological evolution"... and we, my friend, appear to be illustrating this fact,as we continue with this blah, blah, blah ...
a complete human is not just mind....
without the heart we create science run amok - there must be a co-operation and balance...imo.
what year was this?
David Bohm on perception
>what other word would u prefer me to use?
U think they are seperate???????????????
Forgt about what I think, I'm absolutely fascinated by this extraordinary web of assumptions you seem to be weaving... please, go on...
ok but this doesn't imply that science do give mankind more power as time goes on...developing technology and such that enables to be free from its condition and ultimately change reality ... i mean it's not useless in the sense of progress at the least (not to mention that he admitted knoledge to be a possible and actual product of scientific activity)
wow
@tobiaslarsgunnar Part of mind control system was to use heart for thinking, and brain emptiness. I prefer worship the mind.
> If u think that murti was the only one to ever experience the unkown then u are deluded.
What are we talking about here? "Truth"? Or the "Unknown"? Or something that apparently you're deeply interested in,that you can't quite describe with a word?
Heavy.........
Sorry... in my haste to respond to "afterthebreak", I mispelled the name of the great J. Krishnamurti...
The realm you live in?
They traveled in different circles...
this is music
PS... Einstein died in 1955 - about half a dozen years before Bohm even heard of Krishnamurti.
@WazDDR I don't agree (yet again) with the claim that scientific knowledge has alway been around. An honest look at history must make this clear. People in the middle ages and before thought lightning was there because the gods were angry at them. Or did fully know about Maxwell equations of electromagnetism?
Be serious for once.
> Sam what is the truth?
Maybe a good place to begin is to explain what it ain't... And to do that, we can go back to the other guy you enquired about, early on Dave B.'s other friend. Albert E.
... who proved, as far as science can prove anything, that TIME and SPACE are both relative. - Which means that they are both CONSTRUCTS. Of what? Of the Human Mind/Brain.... Are you with me so far?
interesting
@niriop Not quite, in all time in all space it nearly never exists. But existence is just a STATUS at that exact time and exact space reletive to the sensor. This entire 100% correct relative to humans because the true answer over all space and time is not possible to humans.
it's here-
bohmkrishnamurti ddoott com
"Murti", said a lot more than that... It appears that everyone wants to experience the "Unknown",like it's some humongous Hollywood-style Special Effect! i.e., ("The Big U") --- without first figuring out how to free ourselves from "The Known"...which is what we actually are... i.e. our greed, our hate, our loneliness, our jealousies, our deepest desires, sacred or profane, etc... First figure that out, says "Murti", then maybe.... maybe... if you "leave the window open"...
David: you're lost.
@DaktaBubbles Perhaps evolution movement not revolution.
@WazDDR Well I understand what you're getting at. That ancient knowledge somehow had been right all the way. They're not. Religion (also hinduism) leads away from the true objective nature of reality (that which we can be sure of).
Know that the copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory (google it) has many opponents today in modern physics.
Indeed, the world of the very small is very strange to us. But connecting modern day scientific theories with ancient 'knowledge' is one bridge too far.
@begily
Yes of coarse there must be balance. So balance your brain not other part of your body, never use liver for thinking process no no no.
@WazDDR They knew how quantum theory works? Then why were they riding a donkey instead of flying anti-gravity aircrafts.
Get real dude they didn't know (if they even existed, which is to be doubted historically).
lost?
X..
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