I still love using the ink vac, just the feeling being able to suck up booyah bombs, the ultra stamp and blocking reefslider and triple splashdown explosions is so cool. It can also suck the ink storm before it creates the cloud (Also if you’re inside the radius of the reefslider or triple splashdown, the ink vac can still block the explosion
I love how Ink Vac uses the toxic mist effect to "sap" the other team, so I think increasing ink depletion by 4x can help with roller and sword counterplay.
I think a better solution to ending the special early is being able to decrease the amount of time the suction is out. By holding the L stick you can widen the suction and make the timer of the suction shorter simultaneously. This means that it can clutch up in tight situations where the extra suction is needed and also end the special faster if it’s not needed. I don’t feel like being able to end any special for free is good design unless it’s adding extra functionality like hammer. It’s the same idea of if you could self destruct a crab early when you didn’t need it anymore
I've always wanted vac to have high strafe speed and a smaller suction radius Also they gave this thing the stingray treatment only worse because it's only on one second kit
Except sting ray was completely broken, meanwhile this thing is like the worst special. You'd think they give it more kits to try and buff it, but alas Nintendo balancing moment
giving the user infinite ink resistance during the vacuum phase given that it only paints a tiny bit behind the user would be a really useful buff that wouldnt be too op either
Ok, hear me out: Triple Ink Vac The special charges up and fires off 3 see-through walls of ink that move slowly forward. The walls can eat shots, having about the same amount to fill as a normal Vac (maybe slightly less). The walls move about the same speed as a default Screen, while being about the same height and slightly reduced width. Also if an enemy player swims through it, they take a sizeable amount of damage (about 30-40 health). Teammates can still move and shoot normally through the Vac shots. The walls also have an indicator for when they're about to break, signalling tesmmates to move out of the way from fire. The counterplay to it is either shooting each individual Vac shot to splat whoever's behind it, or swimming through and risking the damage to splat them more easily. Not only does this rework combine the ideas of Vac and Bubble Blower, but it could also replace Big Bubbler in the protection aspect because that special has its own problems. It's also more self sufficient then regular Vac cause you can fight behind your own walls with the protection, while having more counterplay than Big Bubbler, doesn't eat your team's shots like Bubble Blower and isn't ableist like Screen. Kudos to you if you read all of that, please let me know what you think of it 👍
I'd say these ideas are perfect. I'd also like to see a visual change to the vac device: Give it a mechanism on the front that opens up like a shield or canopy, to show that it only consumes enemy ink in front of it, while not consuming any ink being aimed at the player from the sides or behind. It could look sort of like Dog's face from Half Life, which I believe was crafted from a Combine Scanner, based on its similar appearance.
I forgot that you could just parry the shot at the start of the game. It was really satisfying to pull off and left you very weak after, so I think that could lowk be another way to give counterplay if that is needed
I feel that just makes an already niche and low picked special even worse. The shot and explosion are already easy enough to avoid since it’s a slow projectile, so making it able to be parried takes away all form of reward for the ink vac user
@@HK_on_YT you could. The shot only did 120 dmg at the time, so it was possible to parry it. Now it does 220 dmg, so the armor will only block 100 dmg, leaving 120 dmg, which will still kill you.
@@TheChosen1629 Thanks for the explanation! Reading your initial comment, I assumed that this was (still) possible, but good to know that it's no longer possible.
I think the lack of aggressive and short range options with it really hurt the special. I've wanted it on a short-mid range fighting weapon for ages, something like Mine/Vac on Jr. Or Fizzy/Vac on Wiper would be amazing. My dream weapon for it would be Mini splatling, though, the range values and synergy of it already being a semi-aggressive/supportive weapon would be perfect for Vac, and I'm shocked we got Hammer on it instead of vac.
As a .96 Gal main since the game release, the part that you said it can block and suck up specials, yeah true. I also made a video about Ink Vac, the part that I talk about all special whether it can bypass specials. Ik, I barely use Ink Vac in matches but most in Turf to bypass specials to survive, such as Booyah Bombs, Reefsliders, Triple Splashdowns, Ink Vac Projectiles. Same goes to Anarchy but defend the objective with my teammates like Rainmaker towards the end of the objective, Tower Control (same ting) and Splatzones
It would be cool if enemies get sucked up by the vac if they stay in the vortex for too long, adding a little bit of risk if you approach it from the front.
Some other ideas I had for Ink Vac. Even if they wouldn't quite fix its problems, conceptually these are things I think would make it "feel" a bit better. - Letting it remove enemy ink from the ground (individual choice if this should also put ink in the shot and if it should be "clean" or like reverse Ink Storm). Without replacing it with your own ink until the shot fires, this assists the Vac's ability to move if they won't give it more Ink Resistance and mitigates the ability of some slower weapons to approach the Vac from the sides, with or without the change to its protection on those angles. Your team still would need to paint that floor to actually swim through it so it's not as powerful as uncontested paint being laid down by something like a Splatoon 1 Bubbler Shooter. - -Let the Vac user swim (Heavy Weight speed but available since it IS a big object).- Ink Vac obviously depends on positioning, so I think some more ability to move oneself around would let it keep up with teammates a bit more, since by nature it needs to be near other players who will benefit from the protection or goad shots it can absorb. It won't be quite fast enough to follow Short Range or QR focused weapons, but at least means if you see another fight after popping Vac shifts one, you could go try to contribute there next. - Maybe add Special Power up to reduce the absorb-limit before firing (if they won't allow it to shoot early as suggested in the video), since being committed to the Vac this long is almost a detriment, and odds are if the opponent is going to try and intentionally fill it, taking 5 seconds vs 4-4.5 seconds focusing directly on your probably won't change the outcome (whether they pick you or your teammates capitalize), and logically there's the benefit of getting to use the offensive aspect with the shot more often, making it a balance to hit instead of a strict benefit/nerf to either approach.
You’re already able to swim when ink vac is active tho. I also disagree with your suggested SPU effect, the main gimmick of the special is absorbing enemy ink and protecting your allies. Reducing the time you’re able to protect your team for a singular, slow and easy to avoid explosion, makes it too similar to booyah bomb and I feel takes away from its identity
Speaking as a super casual player who only plays turf. When I see a vacuum special and I notice the other team are not coordinating, i know I can easily get behind the vac user and kill them, because like you said it is best used when coordinated and that is hard if you are playing in turf casually with strangers. I like all the suggestions you mentioned.
Why not just make Ink Vac into a special duration vampire. So if a Crab decides to fill a Vac, it's gonna do so at the cost of losing more time. They could also buff the range of the Vac and it's Toxic Mist effect to make this buff more significant. There's so many specials that have natural decay, and a lot of them are good, such as Jet, Crab, and Bubble. Then they could also buff/nerf specials by changing how much Vac drains, such as Wave Breaker only losing 1 wave or Bubble's time being cut in half.
@Prochara The change I would make is making Vac suction function should be grenade button in that way we still have access to our main just like zip caster There is already a start delay if you swap between main & vac
Great video! Vac is a really cool special so im glad u did a video on it. I do have a question about 6:00 though. Would the 50% power reduction be to the damage (even tho that would make it 120 but you could still use squid roll/surge to parry it) or would it just be to the damage radius? Loved the vid keep up the good work :)
I think the main issue with vac is not being able to fill it up very easily because if you don't shoot it it can't charge and if you do shoot it you get nothing and it gains charge so I think if shots that go into the vac radius can still paint somewhat that may encourage more active defense against it and a much more interesting dynamic when fighting it other than just not letting the vac play the game.
WAIT! Being able to use sub weapons during vac would be fire but MORE importantly. Was the change at 6:35 modded in or an edit? Just asking since it looks modded unlike a simple mock-up so I wanted to know
Folding trizooka (or God forbid, stingray) functionality into ink vac and making it start with a single shot to end the special early at any time, but able to charge up a larger shot or multiple shots, seems like a good way forward to me. It gives it a crab tank-like versatility and provides trizooka with a more universe-related design.
An idea that I have had for vac is that you should be able to use your sub while it's in use. I know that was also said in the video, but my idea is that while you're using the vac your ink tank is constantly filling at a fixed rate. Absorbing enemy ink would fill your ink tank faster and also overflow it for a short time while and even after the special ends (up to maybe about 200% more ink if fully charged), either allowing you to spam bombs or just play hyper aggressively afterwards.
a small thing, but I think it would be cool if your color ink spilled out of the vac a little bit and painted around your feet so you can continue to walk forward while using this special so you're not locked out of a position by just... not being able to walk over the enemy color, during this special where you're given no other painting tools.
How fitting that this was made literally a DAY after I was attempting to make use of ink vac to try to counter against splat bomb, zooka, and tri strike spam in last night’s turf war map combo of Barnacle & Dime, and Lemuria Hub. (Most of these ended up being _just_ Barnacle, and its *horrendous* lockouts by being constantly spammed by mini splat bomb rush from double T-tec comps, and being absolutely bodied by zookas, and strikes.)
I kinda like the sub idea, but unless we get custom kits in the next game (please nintendo 🙏), I think it would simply be too situational and lead to kits that NEED a bomb, which I don't think is really good design. Instead, I would simply make it so that you move MUCH slower while in the vac. This would do what the sub idea would do (protect the user at short range) while not being entirely dependent on the kit.
Something about Vac (and Slider) that ive always wondered why they never did it to avoid Zones cheese was give it TSD Paint, TSD does the non-cheese thing pretty well without feeling completely useless
I think Vac could also be saved by more range on its suction effect. Not having to push up as far could be a huge improvement in helping its survivability.
I think it would be cool if, as you suck up enemy ink, it shot out the back around your feet as ally ink, almost like a mobile sprinkler? And then just tone back the explosion ink like you said to balance out
Make it absorb the strike's capsules before they land. The paint on its feet it got should also cover a more round area and drop more often. The suction radius should be bigger cause rn it feels inconsistent.
I can’t remember if they fixed it in a patch or not, but the paint from final shot only paints on the surface it touches, not in a sphere all around it.
I would say that having more of a slow-down effect similar to disruptor from splatoon 1 is better since it'll be self-sufficient. What do you guys think?
Vacuum is another special that feels bad to use and play against. I personally would remove the side and back shield hitboxes but give the vac player their full speed of turning.
as a splat charger main, when inc vac works it's amazing, but most of the time it just...doesn't. in a lot of matches whenever i see a splatana or especially decavs i end up barely using it at all, but that could very well just be a skill issue for me lol hopefully in the next game charger gets a different special, or vac gets changes like the ones you've suggested
what if we just added a grounded roller to the front of ink vac so if someone got into melee range they'd die (or trade if they're a melee one-shot weapon like roller or splatana)
My personal gripe with ink vac is the game's netcode making it inconsistent/difficult to use effectively/unreliable. Outside of the few situations where you can straight-line push with the rainmaker through a chokepoint (like on eeltail), you will almost always have to turn your camera to protect your teammates with an ink vac. Sure the swaying of the hitbox makes that more difficult than it needs to be, but it wouldn't be as big of a problem if the netcode actually allowed the vac user to absorb enemy fire before it hit their teammates. Because the netcode is constantly playing catchup with what everyone else in the game is doing and the netcode does a poor job handling aim flicking and there is a lack of situations where you can get value out of vac without needing to turn the camera, I find that vac has a hard time providing the damage-mitigation support it's supposed to provide. Like the special does more to protect the user than the teammates the user is trying to protect, and that makes no sense when the special is suggested to be used to protect your teammates.
I had a random idea watching this video, and I have no idea how good or bad it is so I'm curious to hear others' thoughts: What if, if it's actively suctioning but doesn't absorb anything for enough time (say, 80 frames), it automatically skips the rest of the suction phase? And it doesn't boost or penalize the power charge Would this only work conditionally? Would this only be balanced conditionally?
I was super excited when I heard tent had beakon vac, I thought it was amazing. Its unfortunate vac is where it is competitively because I would drop the zooka for this in a heartbeat.
So I've been playing vac since launch (rpro/jet main, golden vac badge btw :) ) - imo the reason people don't trust it is it's inconsistent. Vac is server side not client side (unlike, for example, kraken), so as long as the opponent sees a kill through the vac it happens in game. This can result in chargers shooting through the vac, splatlings shooting through the vac, really anything just shooting through the vac. I've lost many a game to the rm/clam carrier dying to a charger inside my vacuum. I also tend to disagree that vac 'needs' a main weapon counter in sword. Playing in competitive against sword I literally will call to my team "where is the sword" before I use vacuum. There's not really any another special in any other splatoon game that gets so hard countered by a specific main weapon -and it is a hard counter since vac doesn't protect your team mates or yourself against it. Vac already gets countered by ultra stamp, kraken, strikes, wail, even crab to a certain extent. No need for a main weapon counter. I like the early shot tradeoff proposed in the video and also the removal of the bs side hitbox. In lieu of being able to throw bombs I would rather something like a brella shield to block sword hits, but that could still lose to kraken/ultra stamp. Since most vac weps don't have fighting subs it would be a weird change to allow for sub use imo.
It sucks that it disappeared from the meta because it’s such a cool special. I want to say that vac isn’t good because of the weapons it’s on ether being too slow or not enough synergy with the main weapon and sub. I really do like this special, it sucks to see it be such a niche pick for rm now
I don’t think unlocking sub weapons for vac would fix the rush down problem in the slightest. There’s only 1 weapon with vac and a bomb, splat charger, but that would never see much use anyways over Z+F or pencil. I think making it so the vac can’t be overloaded is a better buff. In short, you would not be able to end the vac early just by filling it up. To counter this buff, reducing vac’s duration from 6 seconds to 4.5 seconds would make timing the vac more critical for pushing through
You forgot the worst part of the special if you don't get the ending shot after the vacuum part out before being splated you have to charge it back up from 0, rendering it a waste of the charge you built and the 6 or so seconds you spent trying to do something with it
@@autismrk8636 you got 6 seconds of making sure 4 people can't/dont shoot in a specific spot thats not a waste unless the spot you were denying isnt an important spot
I think shooting the shot early is a bad idea. It'd make it a worse Zooka. I think ending it early is also weird. Kraken is all about offense and can score wipeouts frequently, and when there's no more opponents to kill, and you're stuck as a kraken for just as long as a vacuum, no one complains. Why is no one complaining about ending Kraken early after the jobs done and you can't help push objective, especially in clam blitz where kraken was most used on
Ah, no, now you've listed all these great logical changes, Nintendo is going to go, "Well we can't do that because Chara's legal team will get us for copyright. We'll have to do something different!" and this is the exact reason why vac is gonna get buffed to have an even larger radius. No one will expect a buff like that happening for a 19th time.
Honestly i see this special like how everyone sees big bubbler. I mean if vac took over would it be healthy? it's a special that makes its teammates basically invincible to cheese objectives i find it weird that people like vac butt hate big bubbler. The special is at least more fun to use.
It’s probably because bubble feels much more free and not skill based. Vac requires coordination to make a solid play with, and if the enemy team has a melee option, it ends early. Bubble requires the other team to use so much more of their resources to end it early whether it be specials or choosing a weapon specifically for its dps/high obj damage. There’s much more easy counterplay to vac (melee tools and just outright good plays) than bubble (coordinated shreds or high shredding capability/special wasting)
lemme try and put myself in nintendo's shoes instead of just tweaking it for a rework in Splatoon 4, what if it served more functions instead? this'll sound crazy but hear me out what if an Ink-Vac 2.0 had not only the ability to suck up ink being shot, double ink consumption when doing so but also SUCK UP INK ON THE FLOOR. not just your enemies but your own ink as well this guarantees you have a means of consuming some sort of ink, and it halts your opponent's means of escaping by removing their traversal now why would removing your own ink be good? so you can re-ink the floor and build points for special again. you don't build more points for special if you're inking your own turf, so a clean floor is repaintable
I agree with all the changes here but one thing that might be worth putting onto the cancel? You should only be able to cancel once you fill the bar enough (I'd say ~40% works?). This way people don't just pop vac to instantly pop Rainmaker Shield and it's actually a little more interesting. You still HAVE to use the suction, just don't need to commit the full way
I’m not gonna lie, I think both of the proposed buffs suck The first one, early activation, might work for competitive yeah, but I know exactly what’s going to happen in Anarchy: People are going to pop vacuum, not use *the vacuum part of the vacuum*, immediately switch to shot, attempt to cheese zone or get a cheeky kill, repeat every time you charge, and that not what this special is about, it’s about the *vacuum* part. Remember that competitive isn’t everything, and rewarding the player with the selfish reward without the selfless act is one quick way to lose the vision of the concept. The second one, subs, yeah that’s another non-vacuum thing that the vacuum shouldn’t really be doing, I’m exaggerating by saying that people will instead use it as an ink refill to shower you with four burst bombs, six point markers, yadda yadda, not the point but it’s a concern, I don’t think it’s as bad as the early shot buff, but I believe it’s a bandaid solution instead Now, what I would propose is a Melee attack! You see how you have to hold ZR for the whole duration of the vac? Realistically, there’s not reason why you’d want to let enemy shots through, so let’s give ZR-up a meaning with a melee attack! Lift up your finger from ZR and your character will hold on to the nozzle tightly, hold it on its side and give the enemy a little shove, make it do 30~ish damage but a good amount of knock back, and give it a lot of end lag. Ups: Gives you options against people closing in on you, which lets you take better, more solitary positions. Downs: You have to stop vacuuming for it, which means less charge and less protection Whatcha think?
Fun fact, ever since Vac was released it's only gotten on 2 weapon kits after launch: Big Swig and BPN
*cries in uses vanilla 96 sometimes*
Same with Tacticooler (Snipewriter and Tri Nouveau)
@@sebastianescalante5618 you forgot edit
@@sebastianescalante5618 heavy edit
@@Cheezy701 Yeah. Forgot about Edit for a bit.
Hmm, maybe if we had more than just "booyah" and "this way!" then coordination wouldn't be such a problem.🤔🤔
If there were a third option, one like "_Special here_ ready!" would be very handy
If you have ever tried to play Overwatch you start to appreciate the minimalistic communication options in Splatoon...
even if we did average solo queue joe aint gonna listen to you he’ll just tune you out anyways LOL
I mean itd be cool but you'd figure this way kinda works for this.
I sometimes see this way used with some success by vac and cooler users in solo q. Not often, but sometimes
"The Ink Vac special doesn't suck. I mean it DOES but.... you know what I mean!" Shelly
I still love using the ink vac, just the feeling being able to suck up booyah bombs, the ultra stamp and blocking reefslider and triple splashdown explosions is so cool. It can also suck the ink storm before it creates the cloud
(Also if you’re inside the radius of the reefslider or triple splashdown, the ink vac can still block the explosion
it can also block kraken if i remember correctly
I love how Ink Vac uses the toxic mist effect to "sap" the other team, so I think increasing ink depletion by 4x can help with roller and sword counterplay.
I think a better solution to ending the special early is being able to decrease the amount of time the suction is out. By holding the L stick you can widen the suction and make the timer of the suction shorter simultaneously. This means that it can clutch up in tight situations where the extra suction is needed and also end the special faster if it’s not needed. I don’t feel like being able to end any special for free is good design unless it’s adding extra functionality like hammer. It’s the same idea of if you could self destruct a crab early when you didn’t need it anymore
@lemonquacklol oh hey nice ta see you here
@ I am everywhere
@lemonquacklol hehehe
Tenta Brella users popping a Beackon while using Ink Vac:
Vac literally had so much potential😭😭
I've always wanted vac to have high strafe speed and a smaller suction radius
Also they gave this thing the stingray treatment only worse because it's only on one second kit
Technically true, but it's also on Big Swig, which came out post-launch.
Except sting ray was completely broken, meanwhile this thing is like the worst special. You'd think they give it more kits to try and buff it, but alas Nintendo balancing moment
The vid starts with a monster hunter theme, predict greatness
Turns out the entire video had monster hunter music, I'm a happy dude
@MonstieHuntersame :)
I was gonna say, I heard those first notes and INSTANTLY understood.
giving the user infinite ink resistance during the vacuum phase given that it only paints a tiny bit behind the user would be a really useful buff that wouldnt be too op either
pickma
@@hugebirden7561 pickma
Ok, hear me out: Triple Ink Vac
The special charges up and fires off 3 see-through walls of ink that move slowly forward. The walls can eat shots, having about the same amount to fill as a normal Vac (maybe slightly less).
The walls move about the same speed as a default Screen, while being about the same height and slightly reduced width. Also if an enemy player swims through it, they take a sizeable amount of damage (about 30-40 health). Teammates can still move and shoot normally through the Vac shots.
The walls also have an indicator for when they're about to break, signalling tesmmates to move out of the way from fire.
The counterplay to it is either shooting each individual Vac shot to splat whoever's behind it, or swimming through and risking the damage to splat them more easily.
Not only does this rework combine the ideas of Vac and Bubble Blower, but it could also replace Big Bubbler in the protection aspect because that special has its own problems. It's also more self sufficient then regular Vac cause you can fight behind your own walls with the protection, while having more counterplay than Big Bubbler, doesn't eat your team's shots like Bubble Blower and isn't ableist like Screen.
Kudos to you if you read all of that, please let me know what you think of it 👍
I'd say these ideas are perfect. I'd also like to see a visual change to the vac device: Give it a mechanism on the front that opens up like a shield or canopy, to show that it only consumes enemy ink in front of it, while not consuming any ink being aimed at the player from the sides or behind.
It could look sort of like Dog's face from Half Life, which I believe was crafted from a Combine Scanner, based on its similar appearance.
MONSTER HUNTER MUSIC MENTIONED
RAHHHHHHHH
(i love rotten vale theme so much)
Big ups to the editors, they always kill it on your videos!!
Missed opportunity to use the Luigi's Mansion ost.
I forgot that you could just parry the shot at the start of the game. It was really satisfying to pull off and left you very weak after, so I think that could lowk be another way to give counterplay if that is needed
I feel that just makes an already niche and low picked special even worse. The shot and explosion are already easy enough to avoid since it’s a slow projectile, so making it able to be parried takes away all form of reward for the ink vac user
do you mean that you can actually parry the Inc Vac's shot by Squid Rolling?
@@HK_on_YT you could. The shot only did 120 dmg at the time, so it was possible to parry it. Now it does 220 dmg, so the armor will only block 100 dmg, leaving 120 dmg, which will still kill you.
@@TheChosen1629 Thanks for the explanation! Reading your initial comment, I assumed that this was (still) possible, but good to know that it's no longer possible.
2:44 Sploosh with vacuum, would be a fun kit
I’ve thought about something like a tf2 air blast to knock players away and maybe even ink and that using some of your charge
I think the lack of aggressive and short range options with it really hurt the special. I've wanted it on a short-mid range fighting weapon for ages, something like Mine/Vac on Jr. Or Fizzy/Vac on Wiper would be amazing. My dream weapon for it would be Mini splatling, though, the range values and synergy of it already being a semi-aggressive/supportive weapon would be perfect for Vac, and I'm shocked we got Hammer on it instead of vac.
As a .96 Gal main since the game release, the part that you said it can block and suck up specials, yeah true. I also made a video about Ink Vac, the part that I talk about all special whether it can bypass specials.
Ik, I barely use Ink Vac in matches but most in Turf to bypass specials to survive, such as Booyah Bombs, Reefsliders, Triple Splashdowns, Ink Vac Projectiles. Same goes to Anarchy but defend the objective with my teammates like Rainmaker towards the end of the objective, Tower Control (same ting) and Splatzones
It would be cool if enemies get sucked up by the vac if they stay in the vortex for too long, adding a little bit of risk if you approach it from the front.
Guys the ink vac shot when fully charged is still MASSIVE
GUYS?? NEW ZEALAND WAS FINALLY SHOWN IN A MAP AT 0:25 !! WERE NOT FORGOTTENNN!! WOOOO!
I still really want ink-vac to be good. It's such a cool and fun concept
Some other ideas I had for Ink Vac. Even if they wouldn't quite fix its problems, conceptually these are things I think would make it "feel" a bit better.
- Letting it remove enemy ink from the ground (individual choice if this should also put ink in the shot and if it should be "clean" or like reverse Ink Storm). Without replacing it with your own ink until the shot fires, this assists the Vac's ability to move if they won't give it more Ink Resistance and mitigates the ability of some slower weapons to approach the Vac from the sides, with or without the change to its protection on those angles. Your team still would need to paint that floor to actually swim through it so it's not as powerful as uncontested paint being laid down by something like a Splatoon 1 Bubbler Shooter.
- -Let the Vac user swim (Heavy Weight speed but available since it IS a big object).- Ink Vac obviously depends on positioning, so I think some more ability to move oneself around would let it keep up with teammates a bit more, since by nature it needs to be near other players who will benefit from the protection or goad shots it can absorb. It won't be quite fast enough to follow Short Range or QR focused weapons, but at least means if you see another fight after popping Vac shifts one, you could go try to contribute there next.
- Maybe add Special Power up to reduce the absorb-limit before firing (if they won't allow it to shoot early as suggested in the video), since being committed to the Vac this long is almost a detriment, and odds are if the opponent is going to try and intentionally fill it, taking 5 seconds vs 4-4.5 seconds focusing directly on your probably won't change the outcome (whether they pick you or your teammates capitalize), and logically there's the benefit of getting to use the offensive aspect with the shot more often, making it a balance to hit instead of a strict benefit/nerf to either approach.
You’re already able to swim when ink vac is active tho. I also disagree with your suggested SPU effect, the main gimmick of the special is absorbing enemy ink and protecting your allies. Reducing the time you’re able to protect your team for a singular, slow and easy to avoid explosion, makes it too similar to booyah bomb and I feel takes away from its identity
loved PS infa as the vac reperesentation, they used to be my teams coach
i'm so glad to see so many clips form them! totally deserves to be the face of ink vac
Speaking as a super casual player who only plays turf. When I see a vacuum special and I notice the other team are not coordinating, i know I can easily get behind the vac user and kill them, because like you said it is best used when coordinated and that is hard if you are playing in turf casually with strangers. I like all the suggestions you mentioned.
HELLOOOO MONSTER HUNTER OST!!!
I love when the counter-play for when I use special is just Shoot it. 10/10 special.
Why not just make Ink Vac into a special duration vampire. So if a Crab decides to fill a Vac, it's gonna do so at the cost of losing more time. They could also buff the range of the Vac and it's Toxic Mist effect to make this buff more significant. There's so many specials that have natural decay, and a lot of them are good, such as Jet, Crab, and Bubble. Then they could also buff/nerf specials by changing how much Vac drains, such as Wave Breaker only losing 1 wave or Bubble's time being cut in half.
@Prochara The change I would make is making Vac suction function should be grenade button in that way we still have access to our main just like zip caster
There is already a start delay if you swap between main & vac
It's weird that the suction part deals little object damage and doesn't absorb things like the strike's capsules.
Great video! Vac is a really cool special so im glad u did a video on it. I do have a question about 6:00 though. Would the 50% power reduction be to the damage (even tho that would make it 120 but you could still use squid roll/surge to parry it) or would it just be to the damage radius? Loved the vid keep up the good work :)
radius size only not damage
I think the main issue with vac is not being able to fill it up very easily because if you don't shoot it it can't charge and if you do shoot it you get nothing and it gains charge so I think if shots that go into the vac radius can still paint somewhat that may encourage more active defense against it and a much more interesting dynamic when fighting it other than just not letting the vac play the game.
WAIT! Being able to use sub weapons during vac would be fire but MORE importantly. Was the change at 6:35 modded in or an edit? Just asking since it looks modded unlike a simple mock-up so I wanted to know
there was a player behind the vac user just good timing
@ aw :(. Really good edit tho
Folding trizooka (or God forbid, stingray) functionality into ink vac and making it start with a single shot to end the special early at any time, but able to charge up a larger shot or multiple shots, seems like a good way forward to me. It gives it a crab tank-like versatility and provides trizooka with a more universe-related design.
An idea that I have had for vac is that you should be able to use your sub while it's in use. I know that was also said in the video, but my idea is that while you're using the vac your ink tank is constantly filling at a fixed rate. Absorbing enemy ink would fill your ink tank faster and also overflow it for a short time while and even after the special ends (up to maybe about 200% more ink if fully charged), either allowing you to spam bombs or just play hyper aggressively afterwards.
a small thing, but I think it would be cool if your color ink spilled out of the vac a little bit and painted around your feet so you can continue to walk forward while using this special so you're not locked out of a position by just... not being able to walk over the enemy color, during this special where you're given no other painting tools.
Itd be so cool to be able to play a mod that has all these rebalance idea + cool Kit ideas on private servers
I have another idea: clean enemy ink on the ground, it doesnt fill the charge but will help
How fitting that this was made literally a DAY after I was attempting to make use of ink vac to try to counter against splat bomb, zooka, and tri strike spam in last night’s turf war map combo of Barnacle & Dime, and Lemuria Hub. (Most of these ended up being _just_ Barnacle, and its *horrendous* lockouts by being constantly spammed by mini splat bomb rush from double T-tec comps, and being absolutely bodied by zookas, and strikes.)
Ink Vacuum to Ink Copium
espacially if the user is bad or your team is nowhere.
I kinda like the sub idea, but unless we get custom kits in the next game (please nintendo 🙏), I think it would simply be too situational and lead to kits that NEED a bomb, which I don't think is really good design. Instead, I would simply make it so that you move MUCH slower while in the vac. This would do what the sub idea would do (protect the user at short range) while not being entirely dependent on the kit.
Something about Vac (and Slider) that ive always wondered why they never did it to avoid Zones cheese was give it TSD Paint,
TSD does the non-cheese thing pretty well without feeling completely useless
what is TSD?
I think Vac could also be saved by more range on its suction effect. Not having to push up as far could be a huge improvement in helping its survivability.
I think it would be cool if, as you suck up enemy ink, it shot out the back around your feet as ally ink, almost like a mobile sprinkler? And then just tone back the explosion ink like you said to balance out
Make it absorb the strike's capsules before they land.
The paint on its feet it got should also cover a more round area and drop more often.
The suction radius should be bigger cause rn it feels inconsistent.
MONSTER HUNTER IN A PROCHARA VIDEO??? I LOVE THIS!!
I can’t remember if they fixed it in a patch or not, but the paint from final shot only paints on the surface it touches, not in a sphere all around it.
@@SJrad they fixed that
I JUST NOTICED THE RISE MUSIC, OH MY GOD I WANNA PLAY AGAIN-
Based Monster Hunter music choice
It's weird that Ink Vac doesn't pull in opponents and drain their health, especially given that Inkling/Octoling bodies are made of pressurized ink.
Two words: Blow Mode...
No, I will not elaborate
Came for the Vac diss, stayed for Monster Hunter Rise music
I would say that having more of a slow-down effect similar to disruptor from splatoon 1 is better since it'll be self-sufficient. What do you guys think?
Vacuum is another special that feels bad to use and play against. I personally would remove the side and back shield hitboxes but give the vac player their full speed of turning.
I still really love the design strong or not!
as a splat charger main, when inc vac works it's amazing, but most of the time it just...doesn't. in a lot of matches whenever i see a splatana or especially decavs i end up barely using it at all, but that could very well just be a skill issue for me lol
hopefully in the next game charger gets a different special, or vac gets changes like the ones you've suggested
Thank you editor for the Monster Hunter Rise music 🙏
Idk if you take video ideas but I think you should do the best and worst weapon for every special, I think it could be a cool concept
1:22 GOOBER DASH!!!!!!!!!!
pickma
@@hugebirden7561 pickma
what if we just added a grounded roller to the front of ink vac so if someone got into melee range they'd die (or trade if they're a melee one-shot weapon like roller or splatana)
My personal gripe with ink vac is the game's netcode making it inconsistent/difficult to use effectively/unreliable. Outside of the few situations where you can straight-line push with the rainmaker through a chokepoint (like on eeltail), you will almost always have to turn your camera to protect your teammates with an ink vac. Sure the swaying of the hitbox makes that more difficult than it needs to be, but it wouldn't be as big of a problem if the netcode actually allowed the vac user to absorb enemy fire before it hit their teammates. Because the netcode is constantly playing catchup with what everyone else in the game is doing and the netcode does a poor job handling aim flicking and there is a lack of situations where you can get value out of vac without needing to turn the camera, I find that vac has a hard time providing the damage-mitigation support it's supposed to provide. Like the special does more to protect the user than the teammates the user is trying to protect, and that makes no sense when the special is suggested to be used to protect your teammates.
I had a random idea watching this video, and I have no idea how good or bad it is so I'm curious to hear others' thoughts:
What if, if it's actively suctioning but doesn't absorb anything for enough time (say, 80 frames), it automatically skips the rest of the suction phase? And it doesn't boost or penalize the power charge
Would this only work conditionally? Would this only be balanced conditionally?
i’m out of copium for third kits, so i hope vac gets these (or any) buffs so swig isn’t objectively bad😭
What if vac kills if you empty the other players ink tank with the mist effect so you don't have to rely on someone else to finish them off
I was super excited when I heard tent had beakon vac, I thought it was amazing. Its unfortunate vac is where it is competitively because I would drop the zooka for this in a heartbeat.
So I've been playing vac since launch (rpro/jet main, golden vac badge btw :) ) - imo the reason people don't trust it is it's inconsistent. Vac is server side not client side (unlike, for example, kraken), so as long as the opponent sees a kill through the vac it happens in game. This can result in chargers shooting through the vac, splatlings shooting through the vac, really anything just shooting through the vac. I've lost many a game to the rm/clam carrier dying to a charger inside my vacuum.
I also tend to disagree that vac 'needs' a main weapon counter in sword. Playing in competitive against sword I literally will call to my team "where is the sword" before I use vacuum. There's not really any another special in any other splatoon game that gets so hard countered by a specific main weapon -and it is a hard counter since vac doesn't protect your team mates or yourself against it. Vac already gets countered by ultra stamp, kraken, strikes, wail, even crab to a certain extent. No need for a main weapon counter.
I like the early shot tradeoff proposed in the video and also the removal of the bs side hitbox. In lieu of being able to throw bombs I would rather something like a brella shield to block sword hits, but that could still lose to kraken/ultra stamp. Since most vac weps don't have fighting subs it would be a weird change to allow for sub use imo.
im loving these monster hunter tracks ngl
Remove the max jump height limitation if you even suck up a single shot. Literally can't jump up a small block anymore
1:13 what is that crab meta ass tier list
It sucks that it disappeared from the meta because it’s such a cool special. I want to say that vac isn’t good because of the weapons it’s on ether being too slow or not enough synergy with the main weapon and sub. I really do like this special, it sucks to see it be such a niche pick for rm now
I don’t think unlocking sub weapons for vac would fix the rush down problem in the slightest. There’s only 1 weapon with vac and a bomb, splat charger, but that would never see much use anyways over Z+F or pencil.
I think making it so the vac can’t be overloaded is a better buff. In short, you would not be able to end the vac early just by filling it up. To counter this buff, reducing vac’s duration from 6 seconds to 4.5 seconds would make timing the vac more critical for pushing through
Since sub weapons can't be used, pressing "R" for an early shot would be more fitting.
CHARA I HAVE A QUESTION, I HAVE BEEN STUCK IN FREE AGENCY AND TRYING TO GET A TEAM WHAT IS A GOOD WAY OR BETTER WAY TO GET A TEAM
Isn’t red Rapid Pro played a good amount in Japan X rank?
The main thing that really bugs me about vacuum is that I swear the protection hit box is put on the back of the user
Still think it's a fine special
prochara do u play monster hunter?
No, please guys, ink vac is good and you should all huddle around the vac so it can protect you. - Stamper and decav main
I like this idea, but I had another idea how about it eats ink ON THE FLOOR or WALLS like a Squee-G?
You forgot the worst part of the special if you don't get the ending shot after the vacuum part out before being splated you have to charge it back up from 0, rendering it a waste of the charge you built and the 6 or so seconds you spent trying to do something with it
you got 6 seconds of deleting projectiles thats not a waste
@PickPig that doesn't always happen some people try VERY hard not to shoot at it
@@autismrk8636 you got 6 seconds of making sure 4 people can't/dont shoot in a specific spot thats not a waste unless the spot you were denying isnt an important spot
They shouldve made it explode if the user gets splatted without shooting it
Chara can you please bring back the Smurf series it was fun to watch back in spaltoon 2
I think shooting the shot early is a bad idea. It'd make it a worse Zooka. I think ending it early is also weird.
Kraken is all about offense and can score wipeouts frequently, and when there's no more opponents to kill, and you're stuck as a kraken for just as long as a vacuum, no one complains.
Why is no one complaining about ending Kraken early after the jobs done and you can't help push objective, especially in clam blitz where kraken was most used on
You really should be able to cancel it at any time. Come on devs!!
Ah, no, now you've listed all these great logical changes, Nintendo is going to go, "Well we can't do that because Chara's legal team will get us for copyright. We'll have to do something different!" and this is the exact reason why vac is gonna get buffed to have an even larger radius. No one will expect a buff like that happening for a 19th time.
Honestly i see this special like how everyone sees big bubbler. I mean if vac took over would it be healthy? it's a special that makes its teammates basically invincible to cheese objectives i find it weird that people like vac butt hate big bubbler. The special is at least more fun to use.
It’s probably because bubble feels much more free and not skill based. Vac requires coordination to make a solid play with, and if the enemy team has a melee option, it ends early. Bubble requires the other team to use so much more of their resources to end it early whether it be specials or choosing a weapon specifically for its dps/high obj damage. There’s much more easy counterplay to vac (melee tools and just outright good plays) than bubble (coordinated shreds or high shredding capability/special wasting)
GOOBER DASH!!
I literally watch ur videos😭
So the fun was optimized out of the game at all levels basically. Another control option failing because speed was pushed too far.
lemme try and put myself in nintendo's shoes
instead of just tweaking it for a rework in Splatoon 4, what if it served more functions instead?
this'll sound crazy but hear me out
what if an Ink-Vac 2.0 had not only the ability to suck up ink being shot, double ink consumption when doing so
but also SUCK UP INK ON THE FLOOR. not just your enemies but your own ink as well
this guarantees you have a means of consuming some sort of ink, and it halts your opponent's means of escaping by removing their traversal
now why would removing your own ink be good? so you can re-ink the floor and build points for special again. you don't build more points for special if you're inking your own turf, so a clean floor is repaintable
W Monster Hunter music.
vac would be so good if using it didnt get you immediately punished like 90% of the time
monster hunter music :)
YOOOO MHW MUSIC
I agree with all the changes here but one thing that might be worth putting onto the cancel?
You should only be able to cancel once you fill the bar enough (I'd say ~40% works?). This way people don't just pop vac to instantly pop Rainmaker Shield and it's actually a little more interesting. You still HAVE to use the suction, just don't need to commit the full way
int vak
Make it eat coolers /hj
0:28 Lmao
I’m not gonna lie, I think both of the proposed buffs suck
The first one, early activation, might work for competitive yeah, but I know exactly what’s going to happen in Anarchy: People are going to pop vacuum, not use *the vacuum part of the vacuum*, immediately switch to shot, attempt to cheese zone or get a cheeky kill, repeat every time you charge, and that not what this special is about, it’s about the *vacuum* part. Remember that competitive isn’t everything, and rewarding the player with the selfish reward without the selfless act is one quick way to lose the vision of the concept.
The second one, subs, yeah that’s another non-vacuum thing that the vacuum shouldn’t really be doing, I’m exaggerating by saying that people will instead use it as an ink refill to shower you with four burst bombs, six point markers, yadda yadda, not the point but it’s a concern, I don’t think it’s as bad as the early shot buff, but I believe it’s a bandaid solution instead
Now, what I would propose is a Melee attack! You see how you have to hold ZR for the whole duration of the vac? Realistically, there’s not reason why you’d want to let enemy shots through, so let’s give ZR-up a meaning with a melee attack! Lift up your finger from ZR and your character will hold on to the nozzle tightly, hold it on its side and give the enemy a little shove, make it do 30~ish damage but a good amount of knock back, and give it a lot of end lag. Ups: Gives you options against people closing in on you, which lets you take better, more solitary positions. Downs: You have to stop vacuuming for it, which means less charge and less protection
Whatcha think?
If they won't use the Vaccum part of the Vaccum they won't be able to cheese Zones because the explosion is much smaller when uncharged.