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POLYMETER - Understanding and Using Complex Rhythms [MUSIC THEORY - RHYTHM]
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
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After the WEIRD INTRO this video goes through the basics of polymeter, where you can hear it, and how you can write with it. Deeply complicated rhythmic layers can easily develop when you write polymetrically, and open up whole new universes of songwriting and composition.
Later, I will be making a video about the 3:4 polyrhythm. Polymeter and polyrhythm are closely related, and hopefully this video demonstrates the basics of polymeter for anyone to understand and start using!
A special thank you to Linas Orentas and Marek Pawlowski for their generous support on my Patreon page.
/ signals_music
/ signalsmusicstudio
www.signalsmus...
Free online guitar lessons for beginners, intermediate, and advanced players. Located in Crystal Lake, Jake Lizzio provides free jam tracks and video lessons for guitar players, as well as music theory videos and other music education content.
Table of Contents:
00:00 Intro
00:30 Polymeters
01:40 Writing Polymeters
03:22 Polymeter Leads
05:33 Becoming Meshuggah
08:08 Polymeter Vs. Polyrhythm
09:11 Wrapping Up
![POLYRHYTHM- Learn and MASTER 3:4 and 4:3 [MUSIC THEORY - RHYTHM- COUNTING]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c1pejTgLuhA/mqdefault.jpg)
![POLYRHYTHM- Learn and MASTER 3:4 and 4:3 [MUSIC THEORY - RHYTHM- COUNTING]](/img/tr.png)
![PHRYGIAN - Understanding and Using the Third Mode of Major [MODAL MUSIC THEORY]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZnoKgWnMEq8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Understanding and Using Odd Time Signatures - 6 Examples [MUSIC THEORY / RHYTHM]](/img/1.gif)
Nothing could have prepared me for that intro.
I'm watching the video drunk. I'm still hearing the intro echoing in ma head
My co-worker stopped what she was doing and said, "...that made my head hurt".
Now!
ShadowT0nberry2 LOL
It definitely could have. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_(Meshuggah_album)
that intro, full length please
I know you...
@@TeShiky bro?
@@3jay22 bro?
@@TeShiky bro?
@@TeShiky bro?
Polymeter: *equally* sized marbles in _differently_ sized jars.
Polyrhythm: _differently_ sized marbles in *equally* sized jars.
I thought this was a vocal thing to conceptualize them, like "Pass the goddamn butter" (for 4:3). Well, I tried to make sense of it and now I feel like an idiot XD.
Bravo! Thanks for that.
god bless u
polyrythm sounds like my balls
that intro blew my mind twice. once because explains the idea clearly in less than 5 seconds, and because i realized my speakers were connected wrong, so i listened your 1-2-3-4 on the side it said 1-2-3 and my brain exploded.
Hahahaha!
My favorite example is the interlude in lateralus when the bass and guitar is playing in 4/4 but the drums are playing a 5/8 pattern
gabriel77196 when I hear polyrhythm I can only think of that and the 3:4 drum pattern in eulogy
Best polymeter example. One can easily lose count if not paying real good attention
I’m so happy that Tool’s music is finally available for stream
If you're looking for the King Crimson polymeter stuff, look to the album Discipline, especially the songs Indiscipline and Discipline. The former uses a polymeter of 4/4 over 15/8, and the latter utilizes both guitarists to go through a shifting cycle of numerically contradicting time shifts. The wikipedia article goes into a lot more detail.
Discipline! Yes!
educostanzo I got to see them last October. Seeing Indiscipline played with three drummers is intense.
DEAAAATTTHHH BY NUMBERS
Nice. A video about polymeters that is actually about polymeters. Now if only there was a video about polyrhythms that didn't mistakenly explain polymeter instead. Haha.
Wiki won't even touch polymeters - but has a polyrhythm article that reads like nuclear physics.
There certainly is a lot in common between the two, but I find it very helpful to distinguish between strict polyrhythm and basic polymeter. I know many musicians use the words interchangably, I just feel that the differences in the way they feel and are structured are bold enough to warrant two different names.
@@SignalsMusicStudio This video is a great explanation of polymeters.
But this comment makes me question whether you understand the difference between polymeter and polyrhythm. They are not interchangeable, there is nothing in common between the two, and they have two different names not because they are enough different to "warrant two different names". They have two different names because they represent two completely different concepts.
I don't know if I have ever run across any other subject with so much misinformation available on the web as the whole polymeter/polyrhythm debate. Please don't be yet another seemingly musical expert that passes on incorrect information.
@@drphill9849 He didn't say they are interchangeable, he said that a lot of musicians use the two terms interchangeably.
@@isaacthecorncob An when a musician uses them interchangeably, they are wrong to do so.
When Signals Music Studio above stated that "many musicians use the words interchangeably" and did not sternly point out that said musicians are wrong to do so, then it makes me more than just question if Signals Music Studio actually knows the difference. His above comments make it strongly apparent to anyone that actually understands the difference between polymeter and polyrhythm that Signals Music Studio doesn't understand. He thinks he does, but he doesn't. At least not at the time of this video and above comments.
Comments that make no sense, and tell me he doesn't understand:
1) "There certainly is a lot in common between the two"
There is nothing in common between the two. Nothing. Anyone that would make this statement is grossly misunderstanding one or both concepts.
2) "distinguish between strict polyrhythm and basic polymeter."
What???? What is a "strict polyrhythm"? What is a "basic polymeter"? And more importantly what does either of these terms have to do with comparing two completely different and unrelated concepts? This is just word salad. Something said to make other uninformed individuals think that the uninformed individual making the statement is actually informed.
3) " I just feel that the differences"
These are well-defined musical concepts. How someone "feels" on the subject has no bearing on the meaning of the terms. This is not an opinion piece. How anyone "feels" about it is irrelevant to the actual meaning of the terminology. Someone using this type of terminology thinks there is some gray area on the subject, because their understanding of the subject is equally gray. He is trying to project his vagueness of understanding onto the subject in order to not be totally wrong either way. But the subject is not vague, it is quite clear. If you really understand it. By taking a mindset that how they "feel" about the subject has any relevance whatsoever, they are subconsciously admitting to not fully understanding.
4) "the differences in the way they feel and are structured"
The way they feel? I don't even know what to say to that. Two completely independent concepts involving different aspects of musical structure. This is not like comparing the feel between straight, swing, & shuffle (another frequently incorrectly-taught musical subject), or 4/4 vs. 7/8 time. The "feel" can't be compared. Their structure can't really be compared either, other than to say this is one thing, and that is a completely other thing totally unlike and unrelated to the first thing. In fact, you can have music that is both polyrhythmic AND polymetric. How can you have both? Because they are INDEPENDENT of each other. Unrelated. Incomparable.
5) "bold enough to warrant two different names"
They have 2 different musical concept names because they are completely different musical concepts. Battleships and Volkswagens also have "bold enough" differences to warrant different machine names.
That is 5 major technical-understanding fubars on his part in one three-sentence paragraph. Basically everything he said was wrong. This is how I know he didn't really grasp the difference.
So I will say it again: Contrary to the above statements by Signals Music Studio, the two have nothing in common, other than they are both musical concepts. Saying the two are somehow similar is like saying coconuts and sand are somehow similar because you can find both of them on the beach.
Finally some instructional videos that explain and are inspiring instead of leaving me confused and demotivated. Thanks a lot, man. You're awesome! Cheers
7:15 i think brutalicious was the best way to describe that section. Great video!
“Brutalicious” my new favorite word lol. Thanks for this video man it’s Been over 10 years since I’ve had drum lessons and you reminded me that there’s so much more out there than 4/4 so thank you !
You are hands down the BEST guitar/music channel on RUclips right now. Actually good useful information and taught clearly. Unlike other clickbait channels
My brain is having a hard time catching up. This is brilliant as usual. 👍
Alan Parsons has got a nice 4:3 polymetric passage in "Back against the Wall" from the "Try anything once" album: the bass plays groups of 3 against a 4/4 backbeat. But then the time signature changes to 3/4 with the bass simply playing its pattern through completely unimpressed by that shift, now in sync with the beat. It's one of my all-time favorite rhythmic twists.
And many people confuse this with "polyrhythm". That's why theory is so important.
They're two sides of the same coin, technically.
These were some of the shortest 10 minutes I've experienced on RUclips. You do really play with time. Good stuff.
Man oh man. A music channel with this level of effort.... You're Adam Neely level of quality. I can see you becoming one of the main players really soon. Great job!
I remember I wrote a guitar solo that shouldve been in 6/8, but the rest of the arrangement was in 4/4, and that had a pretty cool effect.
I've found this channel today and I can surely say it has the best musical content on YT, which is full of stuff but not the real deal, thanks for sharing and making deep lessons really easy to understand 🙏
That beginning was amazing
Fantastic as always! Bonus points for mentioning 3 of my fav bands (Meshuggah, KC and Tool for crying out loud) and for the explanation about polyrhthms vs polymeters. And that riff... that was tasty!
that opening was like something from the snes era at the end of a climactic story part that leaves at a cliffhanger and sends you into the game with some chill beats to roam the streets.
Hey Jake, how you're doing? Just wanted to tell you're doing a great job! I'm Brazilian and I rather study in english with you than by any other method in RUclips. I am musician and I have seen for the first time plenty of things you brought to your channel. Thank you for this. Congratulations, man!!
Ron Jarzombek has a cool video on RUclips explaining the polymeters in the Blotted Science song 'Cessation Sanitation', definitely worth checking out for this subject.
Dude why couldn't I have found you before, I've struggled with timing and practice techniques for a good year or more now and you are making everything come together for me! Amazing lessons brother. Thank you!!!!
When you're writing prog metal and this pops into your feed... You're just amazing Jake :)
Finally! Someone who gets it. Not only are you very talented your instructional videos are right to the point without useless crap that nobody cares about. Great job! I am so sick of so called instructional but spend most of the time saying “look at me”.
Thank you!
This channel has such a great content.....kudos.
This was super helpful and it broadened my horizons on what rythym is and how we can mess with it. Thanks Jake, I'll definitely use this information in the future
And not just because You have the knowledge, You are also easy to follow and You have a good sense of teaching. I am a drummer, and I stumvled upon Your videos in my recommended feed. I had been trying to exain polyrythms to My brother, A guitarist, for a long time. I sent him You 4:3 3:4 poly video to watch. You have a very professional tone and demeanor.
I’ve been binge watching all of your videos lately. You’re hands down the best music teacher I’ve come across. Thanks for the these!
I replayed the intro about 3 times because it was 🔥. And then after I finished watching the video, I went back to listen to it one more time.
I have been playing metal for over 30 years now. I've really gotten into bands like Periphery and other Progressive Metal bands so learning to use odd times is a must. I am intrigued by these bands writing process and how all the different guitar parts fit together in the mix.
that bit starting at 4:00 is sweet, like watching a north shore sunset on a nice surf evening, channeling the isley brothers
I’m a little behind here (4yrs lol) but I just wanted to say thank you. This is helpful to the max! ❤
Damn, man! Just when you think your lessons can't get any better!
This channel is a gift.
I’m writing a 7/8 Guitar riff to a 8/8 drum beat and you helped me so damn much. Thanks, dude!
I was waiting for the meshuggah reference the whole vid, thank you
Nice mention of "Touch And Go" from The Cars. My "issue" lol with the song was that I could never get when Ric Ocasek came in-what count. I'll have to check it out more.
This is now my favorite “go-to” channel when turning on yt for music prod/instruction vids. Thank you, btw, trippy stuff, so much easier to grasp the way you break it down!!
I’m writing a string quartet piece for my music class, and I have a section where there are four different phrasing played at the same time. The first violin plays a 1 measure phrase, the second violin is 4 measures, the viola is 3, and the cello is 2. I love polymeter
Is it actually playable?
Would you like to have to play it?
SelectCircle Yah it is playable. The rhythms are very interlocked, despite the complexity and oddity of the section. I’ll see if I can send a link. It will be a musescore file, so you have to have the musescore app on your computer to listen to it, its free
that intro was awesome! thank you for the education. anyone else learning polyrhythm?
One of the greatest intros in the world!
There's this really cool song by Dutch Alt rock band De Staat "I am here to lose control" and its chorus is in poly meter, where the instruments play in 4/4 and vocals are in 7/4, and the chorus takes the exact amount of time needed for the time signatures to resolve.
Listen to John McLaughlin's: THE DANCE OF MAYA from 1971. The Inner Mounting Flame is the debut studio album by American jazz-rock fusion band Mahavishnu Orchestra, recorded in August 1971 and released in November of the same year by Columbia, One of my favorite tunes :-)
It's awesome that as a guitarist you give so many rhythm lessons!!!🙏🙏🙏
thank you for your videos, love from India.
Nicely done, subscribed. There seems to be some confusion in the comments about the difference between polymeters and polyrhythms. As someone who does both, I'd like to try to explain. Polymeters and polyrhythms are related very closely, they can be derived from one another very simply. Imagine two voices playing twenty equal beats in the same amount of time. If one voice emphasizes every fourth beat, and the other every fifth, we have a 4:5 polymeter. If the emphasis is increased to the point where the non-emphasized beats are silent, we have a 4:5 polyrhythm. Polymeters and polyrhythms are the same thing, only looked at in a different scale.
I'm working on a piece that's polymetric 21:25 and polyrhythmic 5:6 at the same time. If you're interested, I'll post it here when I upload it to SoundCloud. I'd also be interested to hear if anyone knows of anyone else doing music like this- I can't find anyone combining polyrhythms with polymeters.
Keep up the good work. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott
One thing I've learned from this video is, I've got a lot to learn!
Cool thing is thing, 1:26 is actually the the product rule of the basic counting principle. In other words, there are 12 ways total to select 4 beats and 3 beats. Neato!
*Love your videos!*
I was introduced to poly rhythms and "A" tonal music about 25 years ago. I could only imagine where music would be today if this went more main stream instead of the opposite direction!
Dude, dude, for whatever reason, maybe because English is not native to me i had trouble understanding time signatures etc. (probably doesn't help that i know nothing else about music) but this video made it extremely clear and easy.
If you look The Cars playing Touch and Go live, you can see the keyboard guy playing with one hand and counting on his fingers in the other hand the time, that is awesome.
Cool!
Very useful for me as a Drummer and a Drum Transcriber ❤❤❤
Now, about Meshuggah, especially on albums like Nothing, that you've shown the front cover on the video, the rhythms there have a certain mantra-like circular structure to them that is not JUST polymetric, it has something more to it, this circularity, which stems from the underlying strong 4/4 (sometimes with a somewhat 3/4 feel).
your lessons are great. I find your explanations very easy to understand. You seem to succeed at making complex things seem simple.
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard - Polygondwanaland.
An Amazing album with all songs running on polyrhythms.
..and it's 100% free!
ruclips.net/video/MPZ6u6MCdnk/видео.html
@@yetanotheryoutuber4271 such an incredible band
@@yetanotheryoutuber4271 unfortunately the video is not available😞
@@Ritmanto ruclips.net/p/OLAK5uy_kZx-hTxk_EfczAhOP3eQT-kJlBsH7NJXs
I love you, dude. Your videos are the best thing you can find on youtube, for real.
I really love the relation of polyrhythms to polymeters. It's one thing I've used to learn much more complicated polyrhythms like 7:5, as it is much easier to learn how to play similar 7/8 and 5/8 groups (think ONE TWO three FOUR five and ONE TWO three FOUR five SIX seven happening together) than to try to subdivide quintuplets and/or septuplets. From there you can speed up the polymeter and decrease the inner beats until you get that 7:5 polyrhythm. It's quite the fun experiment honestly.
Other cool ones are:
TesseracT - palingenesis
Gentle Giant - cogs in cogs ("the circle turns around...")
Gentle Giant - just the same
Changes by Yes.
A section of the intro is played in 17/8 (CMIIW) while the guitar plays on 4/4.
Love that phrase tapestry of complexity, great vid
Great explanation separating polymeter from polyrhythm. I also liked the example of being "disconnected". In other lessons in harmony, you describe feeling. It's common and makes sense but you manage to articulate even vague or difficult feeling. Perhaps you could go more into the feeling behind complex rythms and help us expand our repetoire?
If I have any doubt in music theory this is the place where I come to....by the end of the video....it makes you 90% clear with everything... remaining 10% is practice😛
Amazing intro, I laughed so hard xD I'm a drummer, but was curious what things guitarists are struggling with ]:) Have a good day! Very well explained!
I really enjoy watching these videos, very educational, grtz from NL 🤠👍🏻
I have a huge painting on my wall of some trees and it's because it's three sets of four and four sets of three, polymetric trees, it's all in the timer mate.
Check out:
Meshuggah - Perpetual Black Second
Meshuggah - Do Not Look Down
Amazing lesson! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
I love you man youve been extremely helpful, Hello from Egypt.
please never stop making videos
Thanks man! I appreciate it! I've been jamming to Meshuggah alot lately and I bought an 8 string guitar to learn Bleed off of Obzen but had trouble with the timing! This helps! 😃😎
That intro is better than 99% of any music I’ve heard this year wtf
Great videos man! Love your enthusiasm
Awesome video! You are very good teacher!
Guy. you just it's amazing. so nice see and understand your explanation about this topic and others. congratulations and go ahead
How the hell I didn't know about this channel, your work is amazing, it's what I needed to improve, sorry for bad English, I'm from Colombia
Very simple examples in the outro of Bloc Party - Helicopter and Pulp - Like A Friend; both have guitars doing three note phrases in 4/4.
I'm so happy I found this channel
Yeah I love these ideas but I never developed my skills with them when I was younger. Now that I'm experimenting with music again it's definitely something I'm going to explore.
Polymeter and polyrhythm seem to be more or less the same thing, except that polymeter is when you play two frequencies of rhythm in a just intonation relationship with each other, and polyrhythm is sort of like a vector phase shaping combination of two frequencies to create interference patterns that align at a particular target (the bar). If you allow polyrhythm to extend beyond the length of a bar, it's effectively an inverted way to define a polymeter.
We are almost 100k!
I didn't realize it
WE MADE IT MAN!
@@SignalsMusicStudio
Hell yeah!
I'll quit my job!
Congrats!!! 🤘
great video! thank you for explaining!
Thank you Jake. I really appreciate your positive content.
5:50
is the guitar tone for Airbag - Radiohead
yeah, jonny greenwood would actually be a pretty good post-metal guitarist. makes sense i suppose, iirc both thom and jonny are big fans of boris
this intro rocked
I've gotten so much from your lessons! Thanks man
Great video and great explanation
always great videos on this channel…..and you just taught me the word remiss, thank you
Great video! Thaks for sharing your knowledge!
wow... this guy is a genius as a teacher!
i absolutely love your channel new sub i was always confused as to how do you exactly count different polyrhythms , you havd the clearest explanation so far ,thanks for posting this video ;)
Dude, you are *profoundly* good at this.
Decided to watch this video straight away just in case you get another copyright strike. Wasn't disappointed! King Crimson are such a good example - it's so confusing to listen to sometimes. Someone else mentioned Discipline as an example album and I definitely agree. The first time I heard it and coming face to face with Elephant Talk (one of the weirdest songs ever written) I knew I was listening to something special.
How do you dissect polymeter? I can generally tell when a band is playing in polymeter. What I find harder is figuring out what the hell is going on. It's difficult to isolate different sections of a song from an album to listen to them!
My fav is Frame By Frame.
We all should get software like Pro Tools which lets us dissect any song into pieces to hear the individual quality of each instrument.
At first i thought the meshuggah part is from one of their songs and then i realized its yours. totally rock
that's,.... awesome!!! Thank you for covering this.
Best intro ever
Ooooh fascinating. Since I started playing regular the regular ones have been too eez, but this is interestinggg. I suck at fretting tho....jeeez
Very Good! Thank you!
Please do a tutorial of how to come up with a 'simple' meshuggah scale/pattern 🙏
I was getting impatient with meshuggah section... Wanted u to jumpstart right into it . Infact u should have started the video with that. Kickstarter for life
I love ur videos... U explain in such a simple way.... Keep it up..👍👍🤘🤘