Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I use my gen more to fire up the ACs and microwave. Not as much on the boondocking side to recharge. But, based on the discharge rate I'd recommend AGS set to about 11.5V...should be in the 80-90% depth of discharge depending on brand. Shouldn't be an issue, but would certainly be helpful to see a real world example to confirm it.
I have an onan 4000 gas generator in my RV and see similar amp draw at startup. DC to DC charger between the tow vehicle and batteries will also protect the tow vehicle alternator from failing due to overcurrent draw from lithium batteries
There is a very short inrush current that the victron monitor is not catching probably around 250amp. My question though is how well does it start when the batteries are say maybe 50%
Great point, certainly possible Victron is not picking up that full draw initially. I have a residential fridge + inverter, so days where I'm on road and then stop for lunch and fire the gen up I've had no issues starting. Think lowest I've seen firsthand is in the 50-60% charge range on my 200ah bank.
Does your onan generator have a recharging aspect to the battery on it? Our onan 12000 has a small alternator that recharges the starter battery when in use. So we connected a 12v power system to the battery for phone charging on our coffee truck which normally isn’t a problem cause we use that 12v system mainly when the generator is on. But recently we are using the 12v system when the generator is off too and need more power to draw from since it will take our acid battery below 12.0 and needing to jump the generator to start it. Hence the reason we are considering swapping the generator battery to a lithium for longer use and more hours of use without recharging the battery. Wondering how to make it work. Thanks for the video as it’s helpful!
Thank you. I'm not sure about the small alternator, as basically when the generator turns on it powers the RVs converter/charger which in turn recharges the batteries.
Great idea. Will plan to do that video soon and use dB meter to demonstrate at different points inside and outside for comparision. Thank you for the feedback.
Mine was factory installed by Jayco's vendor, so the wires were already in place between battery junction/breaker and generator. However, I believe they are 2 AWG if I'm not mistaken. Hope this helps!
I can start my onan with a lawn tractor battery. Personally I would use a smaller inexpensive AGM battery to start my generator and keep it separated from my expensive lithium house batteries.
This was the first RV that I didn't have to change out the charger! Jayco used a Progressive Dynamics model on mine that has a switch built-in to change the charge parameters between lead acid and lithium. In my other RVs I always had to swap out the WFCO units for a Progressive Dynamics model, so I was delighted on the Jayco to have the PD already in there. Hopefully that's a trend moving forward on RVs.
@@AdventureRocks Ours is 2019. I am bringing it out of storage this week. I need to dig into mine to see what charger i have now. Hoping it works. I don’t think my current batteries will make it this coming season.
@@justindemott4990 Hopefully it is the Progressive Dynamics model :) I've noticed the prices on the lithium batteries are slowly coming down. Still pricey $$ but at least they are cheaper today than a year ago.
Do your 2 Battleborn 100 ah batteries provide enough? I currently have 4 100ah AGM flooded batteries and am considering upgrading. I was thinking that I would need to replace 4 batteries with 4 batteries... but maybe not? I also have the 37mdqs and a 5500 Onan.
Yes, it works flawlessly. In fact based on the results in video the max amp draw was a surge of 100 amps at about 42 degrees temp outside. So really based on those findings I could get away with just a single 100ah Battleborn since ea single one offers 200 amp surge for 30 sec. I still think it's better to have 2x 100ah lithitum batteries just for battery range/longevity, but still interesting to know that starting the generator above 40 degrees doesn't take as much amp draw as expected.
Yes, the transfer switch is Progressive Dynamics model PD52. It is about a foot or two away from the water pumps in the basement storage right behind the sliding panels in my unit. It's got a nice metal enclosure and real straight forward wiring. I added a Hughes Autoformer with Surge & EPO on the shore power side, so very easy to access it and understand what's going on. The transfer switch itself is just analog, but the generator is wired into the BMPro system so instead of having an analog Cummins/Onan meter and switch in the coach, that same info is instead in the BMPro power page (everything but the "prime" function).
@@AdventureRocks Great information again! That is the transfer switch without any protective features...was hoping for the PD52DCS.. I'm keeping my Hardwired Progressive Industries EMS...thinking about installation after the Transfer switch so I can also monitor Gen. Volts/Amps/Freq.
Couple questions on the battery charging. 1. Does the inverter have to be on in order to charge the batteries while plugged in to shore power or while running the generator? My other question is how many amps must you be plugged in to on shore power in order to charge the batteries? For example I do not have 30 or 50 amp shore power . That being said if I convert down to 15 amp and run a powercord tojust a 110 outlet is that enough to charge the batteries? Same while going down the road, inverter need to be on in order to continually charge the battery?im only running 1 battery and it’s a crossover lithium with CCA.
Sure, glad to help. On my 2021 Pinnacle Jayco supplied a separate Xantrex inverter hidden next to wetbay at ceiling, but it is only an inverter. The charger is part of the converter from Progressive Dynamics behind breaker panel. Some inverters are inverter/charger combos, but most of the time I see more just stand alone inverters installed as OEM from manufacturers. So all that to say the inverter's job in my Pinnacle is only to covert the 12V power into 120V for the fridge and other designated outlets when no shore power...it functions pretty much automatically, but it is separate from the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger which handles charging the batteries. So, inverter doesn't need to be on or off to charge batteries whether on shore power or generator. And, I believe at max charging, the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger will pull some 500-600W to charge the batteries, so you can be plugged into a standard 15A 120V outlet via pigtail adapters and still charge up your batteries as long as rest of use in coach doesn't exceed the ~1800 available watts coming from 15A outlet. And, driving down the road inverter status doesn't matter as far as charging battery...it'll charge regardless via trickle charger from 7-way and/or solar panels if you have them. The stand alone Xantrex inverter Jayco installed in mine is designed to be fool-proof kinda like a surveilliance system recorder where it automatically runs 100% of the time when disconnected from shore power...so you shouldn't ever have to turn on or off the inverter...it'll function automatically, but again inverter is only to power fridge and other outlets when you don't have shore power. Some of the fancier and larger inverters come with a built-in charger, but I see those more in cases where the entire RV's 120V system is invertered for the mega $$ solar/lithium battery banks, etc.
Anyone that tries using a lithium battery on any engine that isn’t designed for a lithium starter battery may get an expensive and inconvenient failure. While you may get away it for a while when the battery is fully charged but the chances that the alternator will fail will rise dramatically if the battery has been been depleted. Lithium batteries will accept a charge current many times greater (charge current hungrier) than a lead based battery placing a very high load on a standard alternator charging system. It’s not the battery’s fault, it’s just not the battery for the job. While lithium is a superior battery in many ways it’s requirements and limitations are different from a traditional starting battery, deep cycle or AGM.
Great point for car engines and such. These smaller generators in RVs don't have alternators though, they're just for backup or off grid power. Since towable RVs typically only have a single battery bank it's more common to see lithium battery banks shared for starting gen and 12V inverter/appliances. Motorized RVs though will have two banks and one will be dedicated just to starting primary engine and gen.
@@AdventureRocks RV manufacturers are by now up to speed if they have equipped lithium and taken measures but converters need to wary. Whatever alternator your bank could be in trouble eventually. Sometimes by plain luck it hasn’t blown. Some newer trucks have very powerful alternators but sometimes that won’t save it. Luck is not having to recharge a depleted bank on a hot day. Luck is having a small enough gauge wire run from trailer bank to truck alternator that it has enough resistance to reduce the current thus saving the alternator. I’ve seen a rash of cooked alternators in the last few years in marine and RV. The one thing in common, lithium batteries. Renogy makes some good DC to DC onboard chargers that can not only restrict maximum current but helps get the maximum charge by the time you reach your next destination. Renoge has sizing data which is very important. Surprisingly, typical 200 amp alternator can not charge at 200 amps continuously which is what a lithium will try to pull from it. Just hate to see people stuck in a bad place at a bad time when SHTF. One couple was at sea and adrift for a week, another were camping in a BLM remote area and had to hike out during Covid on a holiday weekend. Three days later they got a mechanic back out to it, but had make another trip for parts $$$$.
You guys are talking about two different things here. Adventure Rocks' video was on starting a generator with lithium, while Skypower is talking about a comment above which mentions the Lithium batteries will be charged from the tow vehicle with the 7 pin. In his case he is 100% correct. If you add lithium batteries to you trailer you should disconnect the 7 pin charging ability. You will fry an alternator eventually because the lithium batteries will draw way to much power. If you want to charge lithium while in-tow then get a good 50 amp DC to DC charger. There are plenty of videos on youtube to show you how to do it. "All about RVs" has a good one.
For those interested in buying the Battleborn lithium batteries:
amzn.to/3EWameD
Exactly what I was looking for! Lithium for us. Thanks
Would like to see a test on not cold but low battery since that is when you would want to use the generator to charge the batteries.
Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I use my gen more to fire up the ACs and microwave. Not as much on the boondocking side to recharge. But, based on the discharge rate I'd recommend AGS set to about 11.5V...should be in the 80-90% depth of discharge depending on brand. Shouldn't be an issue, but would certainly be helpful to see a real world example to confirm it.
I have an onan 4000 gas generator in my RV and see similar amp draw at startup. DC to DC charger between the tow vehicle and batteries will also protect the tow vehicle alternator from failing due to overcurrent draw from lithium batteries
BMS would shut off the Battery at 0 F
Great point
There is a very short inrush current that the victron monitor is not catching probably around 250amp. My question though is how well does it start when the batteries are say maybe 50%
Great point, certainly possible Victron is not picking up that full draw initially. I have a residential fridge + inverter, so days where I'm on road and then stop for lunch and fire the gen up I've had no issues starting. Think lowest I've seen firsthand is in the 50-60% charge range on my 200ah bank.
Does your onan generator have a recharging aspect to the battery on it? Our onan 12000 has a small alternator that recharges the starter battery when in use. So we connected a 12v power system to the battery for phone charging on our coffee truck which normally isn’t a problem cause we use that 12v system mainly when the generator is on. But recently we are using the 12v system when the generator is off too and need more power to draw from since it will take our acid battery below 12.0 and needing to jump the generator to start it.
Hence the reason we are considering swapping the generator battery to a lithium for longer use and more hours of use without recharging the battery. Wondering how to make it work. Thanks for the video as it’s helpful!
Thank you. I'm not sure about the small alternator, as basically when the generator turns on it powers the RVs converter/charger which in turn recharges the batteries.
Could you do a video about how loud that generator is inside and outside the RV?
Great idea. Will plan to do that video soon and use dB meter to demonstrate at different points inside and outside for comparision. Thank you for the feedback.
What gauge wire did you use between the battery and the generator?
Mine was factory installed by Jayco's vendor, so the wires were already in place between battery junction/breaker and generator. However, I believe they are 2 AWG if I'm not mistaken. Hope this helps!
I can start my onan with a lawn tractor battery. Personally I would use a smaller inexpensive AGM battery to start my generator and keep it separated from my expensive lithium house batteries.
Great tip, thank you
Did you have to change out the charge converter to work with the Battle Borns?
This was the first RV that I didn't have to change out the charger! Jayco used a Progressive Dynamics model on mine that has a switch built-in to change the charge parameters between lead acid and lithium. In my other RVs I always had to swap out the WFCO units for a Progressive Dynamics model, so I was delighted on the Jayco to have the PD already in there. Hopefully that's a trend moving forward on RVs.
@@AdventureRocks Ours is 2019. I am bringing it out of storage this week. I need to dig into mine to see what charger i have now. Hoping it works. I don’t think my current batteries will make it this coming season.
@@justindemott4990 Hopefully it is the Progressive Dynamics model :) I've noticed the prices on the lithium batteries are slowly coming down. Still pricey $$ but at least they are cheaper today than a year ago.
Do your 2 Battleborn 100 ah batteries provide enough? I currently have 4 100ah AGM flooded batteries and am considering upgrading. I was thinking that I would need to replace 4 batteries with 4 batteries... but maybe not? I also have the 37mdqs and a 5500 Onan.
Yes, it works flawlessly. In fact based on the results in video the max amp draw was a surge of 100 amps at about 42 degrees temp outside. So really based on those findings I could get away with just a single 100ah Battleborn since ea single one offers 200 amp surge for 30 sec. I still think it's better to have 2x 100ah lithitum batteries just for battery range/longevity, but still interesting to know that starting the generator above 40 degrees doesn't take as much amp draw as expected.
do you know the brand and model transfer switch installed for the generator? any remote indicators installed with it? Thanks!
Yes, the transfer switch is Progressive Dynamics model PD52. It is about a foot or two away from the water pumps in the basement storage right behind the sliding panels in my unit. It's got a nice metal enclosure and real straight forward wiring. I added a Hughes Autoformer with Surge & EPO on the shore power side, so very easy to access it and understand what's going on. The transfer switch itself is just analog, but the generator is wired into the BMPro system so instead of having an analog Cummins/Onan meter and switch in the coach, that same info is instead in the BMPro power page (everything but the "prime" function).
@@AdventureRocks Great information again! That is the transfer switch without any protective features...was hoping for the PD52DCS.. I'm keeping my Hardwired Progressive Industries EMS...thinking about installation after the Transfer switch so I can also monitor Gen. Volts/Amps/Freq.
@@alanb.4660 Very nice. That should be very informative and helpful to see those specs. Looks like it has some surge protection too.
Couple questions on the battery charging. 1. Does the inverter have to be on in order to charge the batteries while plugged in to shore power or while running the generator? My other question is how many amps must you be plugged in to on shore power in order to charge the batteries? For example I do not have 30 or 50 amp shore power . That being said if I convert down to 15 amp and run a powercord tojust a 110 outlet is that enough to charge the batteries? Same while going down the road, inverter need to be on in order to continually charge the battery?im only running 1 battery and it’s a crossover lithium with CCA.
Sure, glad to help. On my 2021 Pinnacle Jayco supplied a separate Xantrex inverter hidden next to wetbay at ceiling, but it is only an inverter. The charger is part of the converter from Progressive Dynamics behind breaker panel. Some inverters are inverter/charger combos, but most of the time I see more just stand alone inverters installed as OEM from manufacturers. So all that to say the inverter's job in my Pinnacle is only to covert the 12V power into 120V for the fridge and other designated outlets when no shore power...it functions pretty much automatically, but it is separate from the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger which handles charging the batteries. So, inverter doesn't need to be on or off to charge batteries whether on shore power or generator. And, I believe at max charging, the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger will pull some 500-600W to charge the batteries, so you can be plugged into a standard 15A 120V outlet via pigtail adapters and still charge up your batteries as long as rest of use in coach doesn't exceed the ~1800 available watts coming from 15A outlet. And, driving down the road inverter status doesn't matter as far as charging battery...it'll charge regardless via trickle charger from 7-way and/or solar panels if you have them. The stand alone Xantrex inverter Jayco installed in mine is designed to be fool-proof kinda like a surveilliance system recorder where it automatically runs 100% of the time when disconnected from shore power...so you shouldn't ever have to turn on or off the inverter...it'll function automatically, but again inverter is only to power fridge and other outlets when you don't have shore power. Some of the fancier and larger inverters come with a built-in charger, but I see those more in cases where the entire RV's 120V system is invertered for the mega $$ solar/lithium battery banks, etc.
@@AdventureRocks thanks helps a lot, still pretty new at this and learning.
@@stevedenoyer5956 Me too! Always something new, always changing right?
And also how much LP you use over say an 8 hour period.
Sure, great idea. Will work on that one as well. Thank you for feedback.
Anyone that tries using a lithium battery on any engine that isn’t designed for a lithium starter battery may get an expensive and inconvenient failure. While you may get away it for a while when the battery is fully charged but the chances that the alternator will fail will rise dramatically if the battery has been been depleted. Lithium batteries will accept a charge current many times greater (charge current hungrier) than a lead based battery placing a very high load on a standard alternator charging system. It’s not the battery’s fault, it’s just not the battery for the job. While lithium is a superior battery in many ways it’s requirements and limitations are different from a traditional starting battery, deep cycle or AGM.
Great point for car engines and such. These smaller generators in RVs don't have alternators though, they're just for backup or off grid power. Since towable RVs typically only have a single battery bank it's more common to see lithium battery banks shared for starting gen and 12V inverter/appliances. Motorized RVs though will have two banks and one will be dedicated just to starting primary engine and gen.
@@AdventureRocks
RV manufacturers are by now up to speed if they have equipped lithium and taken measures but converters need to wary. Whatever alternator your bank could be in trouble eventually. Sometimes by plain luck it hasn’t blown. Some newer trucks have very powerful alternators but sometimes that won’t save it. Luck is not having to recharge a depleted bank on a hot day. Luck is having a small enough gauge wire run from trailer bank to truck alternator that it has enough resistance to reduce the current thus saving the alternator. I’ve seen a rash of cooked alternators in the last few years in marine and RV. The one thing in common, lithium batteries. Renogy makes some good DC to DC onboard chargers that can not only restrict maximum current but helps get the maximum charge by the time you reach your next destination. Renoge has sizing data which is very important. Surprisingly, typical 200 amp alternator can not charge at 200 amps continuously which is what a lithium will try to pull from it. Just hate to see people stuck in a bad place at a bad time when SHTF. One couple was at sea and adrift for a week, another were camping in a BLM remote area and had to hike out during Covid on a holiday weekend. Three days later they got a mechanic back out to it, but had make another trip for parts $$$$.
You guys are talking about two different things here. Adventure Rocks' video was on starting a generator with lithium, while Skypower is talking about a comment above which mentions the Lithium batteries will be charged from the tow vehicle with the 7 pin. In his case he is 100% correct. If you add lithium batteries to you trailer you should disconnect the 7 pin charging ability. You will fry an alternator eventually because the lithium batteries will draw way to much power. If you want to charge lithium while in-tow then get a good 50 amp DC to DC charger. There are plenty of videos on youtube to show you how to do it. "All about RVs" has a good one.