the way you can see her hands moving I can almost feel it. it physically hurts in a way I honestly didn't know a show could. The image is just as much burned into my brain as it is almost blurry, like the memory is hazy yet so vivid. For the record, I've had no experience with SA, but that scene, and the subsequent related scenes after where she's talking it to herself, and to Maru put me into a disturbed depression every time I think too deeply on it. This anime is absolutely perfect at hurting me in the most horrible way possible
And that's exactly the point. Unlike so many other stories that do this stuff to play it off for laughs, edginess, or cheap drama, Heavenly Delusion really wanted to communicated in both the manga and anime just how awful Robin is and what he did to Kiruko. It was monstrous.
For all the people who equate Kiruko stopping Maru from offing Robin as evidence of her love/enjoyment... They're looking in the wrong place. I would argue it's more love for Maru and love for self- just because something monstrous happened to them, it doesnt mean they should become monsters.
You're on the right track with that line of thinking. The manga supports that as well when it goes into the next adventure they have and we get an excellent window into Kiruko's thoughts regarding herself and Maru.
@@camillesharem eeee, a creator reply! Thanks for making this video ~ and I agree; can't wait to see where the siblings 'end up' as a character by the end of the story
@@tsukinokitsun3 Always happy to reply to people who take time to comment on our videos. :) Same here, I'm really interested to find out what happens with Kiruko. The current arc in the manga gives us some hope for the siblings.
@@frewtlewps1152 That is a part of her reasoning in the arc that follows her reunion with Robin. However, there's way more to it than that. Plus, Kiruko quickly learns that thinking about Maru that way only serves to belittle someone she's come to deeply care about.
I think both things are happening in different timelines. The school timeline is old timeline and Maru timeline is present timeline. Children of this school were actually responsible for the great disaster.The two twin children we saw in last episode were actually Maru and his twin brother.
There are definitely two timelines going on. The children lived through the apocalypse and Maru and Kiruko's journey is happening nearly 2 decades later.
It's not a theory. Maru and Kiriko run into some of the "kids," later on in the first season of the anime, though it's not completely obvious that they are whom they are unless you're paying strict attention
If anyone ever reads this currently in chapter 56(take with a grain of salt) Kiruko got her period again after the event that happened with robin. So she’s more than likely not pregnant(hopefully) Letting robin live we definitely play a bigger role in the future. Especially for Kiruko, like the Oppressed Overcoming the Oppressor or something like that in the future. Also probably the mangaka let robin live so next time we see him he dies a very slow and horrible death 💯
Yeah, I read that chapter shortly after its translation was released. There was a lot going on in it! So, it looks like Kiruko is moving on from Robin in a few ways. And that will all come together later down the road. Robin has a lot to answer for, and Maru and Kiruko have to be in a different headspace I think in order to properly deal with him and not just let that whole arc be a revenge arc. We've already had a couple of those and we see how those go.
Here's something that wasn't mentioned I'd like to bring light to. I've been SA'ed both in my childhood and adulthood. My coworker and I have developed some sort of crush and he told me to watch this anime. Anyway, you're right when you mentioned that scenes like this can be necessary if used correctly. But I feel like the most important part of the episode wasn't talked about. From a victims perspective all we've ever wanted was for someone to save us from the horrible things that were done to us. My therapist once asked me to rewrite my SA to the story that I wanted to depict. And honestly it would go something like this. Maru reminds me of my friend. He makes me feel so safe, like no one would dare hurt me while he's around. I have a hard time falling asleep in public, but if I'm near him I can feel myself dozing off. There are so many other instances in which he has made me feel safe, but I think you get the picture. Maru's confession at the end of the episode broke me into a sobbing mess. Okay so he confesses his confused love to her. It was adorable and so so sweet. And then he mentions how strong he thinks she is, which was so sweet because she was just crying about how weak she is. (Cue the waterworks.) BUT THEN he promises to always protect her if she's in danger from now on. Fuck that hurt. It hurts that he feels guilty for not being there for her when she needed him. I'd imagine this is how my friend feels when I talk about my trauma to him that he said sends shivers down his spine. All in all, I don't think Maru's confession would have been nearly as significant if the SA scene hadn't happened (nor the violent beating afterwards). And yeah while revenge doesn't cleanse the soul it helps us know evil will think twice before it strikes again, which honestly is a lot more than today's justice system can do.
Thank you so much for sharing that. I am very sorry to hear that you've had to suffer through SA both in your childhood and adult life, but I am also very glad and proud of you that you could share all of that with us. I must agree, Maru's confession is so much more powerful because of the horrible experience Kiruko just underwent with Robin. In a moment of weakness, confusion, and pain, he's trying to give her love, stability, patience, and understanding. Otherwise, it might feel out of place, but it becomes exactly what Kiruko needs. And what I love reading in the manga is how that slowly bears itself out with future arcs and discoveries. There is healing and the chance to move on. The manga's current arc is going to challenge their progress, but it's the rematch that the story needs!
that scene made me sick and was hard to watch, granted it did it's job and I don't hate it. What I didn't like is that the anime decided to end when it did. There is no follow up context and i felt that the character that got graped seemed to get over it way too quickly. Obviously im sure she isnt over it, but I think 10 min later ripping up the photo and saying she cant stay depressed forever wasnt enough and felt rushed.
Oh yeah! I agree. We're getting a second season and if it's done right, it will address the fallout and growth after this event, but it felt really rushed. To be fair to the anime creators, I think they wanted the two timelines to coincide with the moments when the heroes have their illusions shattered. In the manga, the breakout from the school happened a couple of chapters after everything went down with Robin. By forcing the two storylines to run side-by-side, a lot of important details were omitted or are getting pushed back to season 2.
My theory is she's masking, bottling up her emotions. This anime has a track record, we'll see more introspection as time goes on, little details that make us aware that she's not ok. Maybe from bottling up all the emotions, she explodes, and it all pours out. As I said, jst theories. I haven't watched the manga ^^"
Have yet to watch this episode because I read the manga up to latest chapter a few weeks ago and dunno if I'm ready to see it animated lol. Highly recommend everyone who doesn't wanna wait for a season that may or may not come to read the manga it's so fuckin good
The most impactful writing of this kind of scene that I've personally experienced is from a book called "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous" by Ocean Vuong. In that book he retold a story of soldiers tieing a monkey down the leg of a table, opening up its skull to spoon out its brains because there was a myth that says it would give them strength, and it is heavily implied that the MC's mother was treated in the same way as the monkey and might also just be a fake story to tell the real story of his mother's experience. I can never put my finger as to why that image felt so correct, without even portraying the actual scene the writer was able to give us the feeling of people that experienced these things.
I've never heard of that story before. Thanks for sharing. It's really incredible when authors are able to communicate those awful, shared experiences to help the readers contemplate and understand something that they might have been unable to otherwise. It can be incredibly rough to go through, but it can be an enlightening experience. Which is why I couldn't bring myself to condemn the scene in Heavenly Delusion. While it's not a scene I like, it is a necessary one to communicate so many harsh ideas that we would otherwise not want to engage with.
thanks tonnes for this video, really helped me settle my thoughts for this heavy scene, and put a better light on the series as a whole rather than leave me with a bitter taste at the end!
Happy that I could help make sense of it all and help you work through it. It's a very intense and traumatic moment, and definitely needs some processing to not leave you feeling wholly wrecked. The nice thing is that the manga's newest chapter just dropped today, giving us some very hopeful exposition and a scene that all but confirms that Kiruko is not going to have any pregnancy issues as a result of her short time with Robin.
all the scenes has something to do with the story. Every small detail, just like the drawings Kona make. I personally enjoy this Anime, im excited and trilled on what comes next.
Im glad that you spoke on this situation. I am a victim as well, it is hard to speak up because of victim blaming... I do feel like stories like this should be made instead of avoided. Mirror real life.
Thank you for sharing that. I hope I was able to express my thoughts and analysis in a respectful manner to anyone who has gone through similar situations.
It was tough watching this I was constantly thinking maybe Maru will kill Robin before robin can grape her i was really sad in the scene where he says it's been 2 days since kiriko left The anime left me pretty upset after that ep 13 was depressing
It's rough. It's very rough to watch and to consider. The manga goes into even more detail. The second season will pick up in an interesting place. Kiruko has a lot to sort out, but there's a story that I'd argue delivers a lot of healing and perspective to her. Maru as well grows in an interesting way that strengthens their relationship. And it all leads to a pretty crazy moment right now playing out in the manga.
@@divyanshutanwar3225 Season 2 was already announced. Unless something crazy happens to disrupt the studio, I'd expect us to see season 2 sometime in two to three years.
I watch a lot of anime. So it’s great when I find something this different. But not only different with this one but also one that doesn’t hold your hand, is very emotional, and truly packs punches. This is shaping up to be one of my favorites, I think it’s brilliant so far. Ngl I’ve never read a manga in my life but I’m tempted to pick this up as my first one, if not on paper I’m sure there’s somewhere online where I can read ‘em.. hope so lol
It's a tricky manga to get your hands on because of how it runs on the darker side of things. However, if you do get the chance to read it, it's worth it!
Honestly you make a great point, but i just cant get over how over the top this scene was i think the grape wasn’t necessary. Maybe I’m just weak but this scene ruined my day and everything els i looked at. To me i just saw a character i likes so much get SAed for no reason.
That's not being weak; that's a very natural response to have when confronted with something so vile. Again, it's not the kind of stuff I'd want to put into my own stories, or at least, I wouldn't dedicate a scene to it. Assault is very real and its consequences devastating. This is why I felt it was important to address this beyond reactionary commentary or the opposite of being deliberately cringe and disrespectful. It's something that needs to be talked about. If anyone feels repulsed by the scene, that is perfectly acceptable.
Yeah i can relate to that. I mean I knew this anime contained some bloody scenes or naked scenes yet I never expected a grape scene. It was just so random and sudden I was shocked and it also ruined my day tbh.
Thank you for making this, although the anime only reaction is more reasonable compare to the manga side, things like this still need to be said Also since Berserk is brought up here, there is an assault scene in that story before the Eclipse when Guts was betrayed by his adoptive father that is pretty similar to the Robin scene in Heavenly Delusion
There are a lot of intense and traumatic moments in Berserk that deserve to be analyzed and appreciated. Guts' early life puts the Golden Age Arc into a context that explains how Guts comes to the conclusion that he must leave the Band of the Hawk, and that fateful decision puts so much into motion. Gambino's treatment of Guts and selling him was not only perverse and demented, but essential to mold Guts into a man who can defy fate and rise to become a hero, not just a valuable mercenary. And that's why those scenes work and aren't just there for the shock value.
(a year late bc i tried waiting for at least a second season before watching only to binge the whole thing this afternoon while trying to get over writer's block ;A;) i know a female or femme character's growth/development being catalyzed by a sexual assault is a bit tired, but i do agree--in this specific mental/psychological dynamic, it leans into the existing themes of & adds so much more depth to the anime. the scene was definitely shocking, but doesn't feel like it was crammed in there just for shock value. i mean, her (him?) crying in relief, releasing all the tension from years of just trying to survive + find Robin right before Robin's betrayal i think will always haunt me. and while Maru doesn't see it like the viewers do, he was definitely privy to Kiruko's Heavenly Delusion, as it were, & how it all came crashing down in such a horrifying way. it's bound to affect how he sees the 'Heaven' they're looking for, & i, too, hope it saves him or at least steels him from a betrayal like Kiruko's.
I can say that Maru has his own few shocks waiting for him down the pipe, but it's still Kiruko who is going through the most character development and discovery still. And a second round between them and Robin is brewing... The manga is a wild ride! But it treats the events of this episode with due respect and long-reaching consequences like one would expect, and that is another very commendable element to the overall story.
Stumbled upon this video as I just finished S1 and was looking for people sharing their thoughts and opinions on the topic as it did indeed leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Decent analysis I must say, and I do agree on multiple points you raised in the video, however I'm still not convinced that the SA scene, as it was shown, was justified and necessary for the story. In my opinion, from the writing standpoint, it goes way too far for objectively no reason and it does indeed appear like a cheap shock value, edgy just for the sake of it. I'd argue that the author could've achieved that same result without going as far as they did and it could've been more in tone with the rest of the plot. The way it's wrapped up makes very little sense to me too and makes it less realistic and harder to comprehend and that's why some people are upset I think (well, including myself I guess). In my opinion, for the betterment of the story they could've done either one of two things. For example, having Robin attempt the assault and failing due to Maru coming in for the rescue at the very last moment would've been a more cohesive story line (more dramatic and satisfying as well I'd say) and more in line with everything that is happening before and after. It still keeps the horrific nature of the assault and the character of Robin being portrayed as a horrible monster, causing all the potential character growth as it was initially intended, but without going too far into 'edgyness'. Something like that would fit much better with the rest of the plot and it's tone in my opinion. On the other hand, if author felt like it was extremely necessary to go as far as the SA scene actually goes, to show all the true horror of the 'delusion' and post-apoc, they should've presented us with proper immediate consequences, characters talking about it, helping each other go through these horrific events.. and definitely not just brushing it all under the rug in 3 minutes by ripping Robins picture apart and saying 'I can't stay depressed forever'. Well, yes, both Maru and Kiriko do indeed have a conversation after, but it just feels a bit lacklustre considering the severity of what Kiriko had to go through, mind you, FOR 2 DAYS, FROM A PERSON WHO WAS A FATHER FIGURE SHE(HE) WAS LOOKING FOR FOR 5 YEARS. IT'S INSANE. All that said, I do not oppose to SA/rape scenes being included in a decent story as plot devises and ways to make characters grow, especially considering the post-apocalyptic setting and everything, but due to it's sensitive nature it should be handled with utmost care and done properly, like you mentioned in your concluding thoughts. The show however made it seem somewhat lazy for me and as I mentioned before - somewhat unnecessarily edgy/overboard. The show was decent, up until that scene. It sort of spoiled the whole experience and it just felt distasteful and cheap. That's my assessment. It's all subjective of course. I'd be glad to read what others think and I'll probably scroll through the comments, when I post this.
There is most definitely a very necessary discussion to be had here about how much/how long any SA scene should go on. It's not something I personally like in any story, and so the author absolutely has to justify putting anything like that into there. And I gotta say, it's hard to figure out where the mark's at. Knowing what comes afterwards in the manga, with what we continue to learn about Robin, what Kiruko goes through and how she deals with this trauma, and how Maru steps up even more afterwards, I'll still argue that this scene works. I say that because all that awfulness gets payoff and explanations as the story unfolds and you come to appreciate even more how Maru and Kiruko support one another, paving the way for a healthy romantic relationship to possible form between them. It's not the prettiest, but it works. The mangaka managed it, though the debate will rightfully rage on on whether scenes like these should be done and, if so, how. The anime actually dulled it somewhat in my opinion. The problem is that the season ends on this note without following up with the next arc. As a result, it feels way too raw and unresolved with Kiruko and Maru just packing up and leaving for the next leg of their journey. The adapting staff really blundered with that... As a result, the scene can easily come across as merely there for the shock factor. If the show gets a second season, we might see this better handled.
Excellent question! In the anime, it SHOULD have happened right at the end of episode 8. In the manga, right at the end of the Immortalities Arc, Maru and Kiruko find the now deposed leader of the protesters. her and few followers who decided to not go on a rampage are taking care of them before they leave to continue their journey for Heaven and Kiruko can't move for a day because of her internal pains. The woman determines she's on her period and Kiruko freaks out and says she hasn't experienced anything like that for five years. I don't know why the anime cut this scene, but it could have been to make Haruki's transition far more subtle in order to make his mental trauma and transformation into Kiruko far more stark after the encounter with Robin.
I think the "grape" scene was fine, I don't think in fiction anything should be off limits, although I'm no fan of misery pron, but in this case it serves to truly flesh out and portray Robin's twisted nature and it wouldn't be the same if it was merely hinted that it happen. Also, to tackle some difficult subjects about the human condition, I think sometimes is necessary to dabble into really horrible stuff. I think people these days live extremely sheltered lives, where everything needs to be pc and sugar-coated, but that's not how the world is, there are many horrible aspects of the world and humanity and turning a blind eye to that reality isn't helpful. That been said, my qualms with the season finale was that the fact that Maru didn't killed Robin, to me, felt a little bit contrived if not baffling. Also, I think that Kiruko's reaction to the whole situation was a bit jarring, after experiencing such a traumatic event, I think her behavior didn't reflect the weight of her trauma, I expected to see her in a complete state of shock and mentally broken, after what she experienced, and I know not all people react the same way to trauma, but she looked more sad and disappointed than anything else, don't know if it’s portrayed better in the manga, but putting that aside it has been a great series. Finally, I don't think that deeming s*xual abuse as despicable and wrong has anything to do with politics, the difference between thinking that it’s horrible or finding it pleasant, is the difference between been a human being with the capacity for empathy or being a full-blown sociopath, although I’m sure that most people suggesting that Kiruko liked it, are just trying to be edgy.
To your first point, I agree. People, especially in western cultures live sheltered live. Whether that be sheltered from violence, from ideas, from sexuality, etc. And some stories can communicate those themes and messages very well! But the argument is that those who do write that stuff should be cognizant of what they're doing. After reading George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, he was just looking to shock and in the end he's writing entire porno chapters to recapture the "magic" of previous shocking scenes from book 1, none of which add anything to the narrative or the characters, or enhance the dangers and depravity of the world. Jamie and Ned's alley brawl outside of the brothel did far more that! To your second point, I definitely recommend reading the manga. Maru is a beast, a super soldier that the scientists wanted to have, but he still retains a sense of innocence up until this point. It's kinda teased that Kiruko didn't want Maru to sully himself killing Maru. She also thinks that being with a rapped individual is going to taint him and destroy him, so she tries to find excuses to make him ditch her later on. Furthermore, despite Kiruko's abrasive nature, she does her best to avoid killing other humans. Combine that with Robin once being her hero and friend, that's why she stops Maru from killing him. The whole moment is meant to be enraging. You're meant to hate Robin. You're meant to question how you would react. And in the subsequent arcs, you're seeking to come to terms with Kiruko's decision and find understanding. Heavenly Delusion is a story that doesn't spoon feed you answers. It presents problems and character reactions and solutions that you're supposed to consider. And that's one of the reasons why this engaging story won me over so quickly.
Kiruko just experience a traumatic event from a respected individual that is like a father figure to them so it is difficult to understand and combine with the gender dysphoria from living in a body that is not their ,they might not have the times to processed it fully . The rage is us as an observer projected to them in that situation . Tbh f*ck robin , kill that fucker , i hoped Kiruko maim that rap pist in later chap
Do not bloody assume everyone is needy and want PC crap dude. I have seen plenty of F up shit in media and I can tell you right now, it has made me more aware of the world we live in. It is why I try to avoid anything from Disney because it is nothing but watered down, sugar coated shit. The only things from Disney I am willing to touch are the 90s cartoons. 90s didn't F around. I maybe in a small majority but I am not fucking needy.
@@luizfelipebocolibuenodasil2859 I understand where you're coming from. My best explanation for that is because the manga explains how Japan's temperature drops drastically with sundown. But it might be something the story explores further down the road.
It's interesting that you describe the first sin in the garden of Eden (eating the forbidden fruit) as potentially being about sex because I've been in church my whole life and have never heard it described this way. What I've come to understand is that the sin was eating not just the fruit but from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve by eating the fruit were trying to be like God (all knowing) and by eating the fruit were saying that they didn't need God. This was the first sin, one could most closely be described as the sin of pride. I feel that this interpretation still makes sense with the two main villains of this story, the director who was trying to be greater than God and live eternally in her own Heaven, and with Robin for whatever he was trying to create there. Also, sex isn't a bad thing in Christianity, it's a beautiful thing designed for loving relationships. But when it's taken out of that context is when it can be harmful and dangerous. Loved your video analysing this anime!! I just watched it and needed to see someone discuss it because it really took me on a whirlwind of emotions!
Yeah... That ending is a real doozy! And I needed to make this video if even just for myself because reading that part in the manga was a gut punch! And all of the commentary online was about whether or not Kiruko liked it... WHAT THE HECK!? The symbolism of or literal nature of the fruit has encouraged fascinating discussions. In my studies of religion, I have come across all kinds of interpretations for what the fruit might be. I went with the sex interpretation for this analysis because it fits the story and what is happening with the kids in both timelines. Though personally, I'd agree with you that the fruit represented knowledge and they were getting it contrary to God's commands. Not that knowledge, or sex, or most good things in life are evil, but that it was done in a way contrary to God's commands, hence Adam and Eve's transgression. And with that, the Pandora's Box of religious discussion has been opened! Haha!
Robin is trying to be something he will never be. He already breached Kiruko's privacy and forced himself on her and that's not funny that he can do these things and doesn't realize his own lack of responsibility.
@@leon4000 And given the manga's current arc, we are likely to learn more about his depravity and where it all began for him. While I despise Robin, I am glad that we are going to get more of his backstory, which undoubtedly is setting up a final confrontation between Robin, Kiruko, and Maru.
I remember when i watch this, i was idk how. To say.....very sick, i was really furius that robin doesnt die by maru, i rlly hope in manga he get it. Idk now in actually how is the history going on because i waiting the s2 pretty sure next year. I really hope that maru could be a big influence to kiriko now and idk if they are in a relationship or in way to be one but i think both need to healing.
They certainly do need healing. I am glad that in the manga at least the consequences of Robin's assault are taken very seriously. Kiruko does get some moments to heal, and there's a big face-off, a second round gearing up between Maru and Robin. We'll see how that goes down. Season 2 is going to have a lot of insanity to cover, that's for sure!
SA happens. OFTEN! When it comes to storytelling, it does need to serve a purpose and that purpose doesn't need to be big, amazing or deeply philosophical, but it does need to be true to life. You shouldn't make it sexy or entertaining in a ponographic way. Especially when the story itself has a very serious setting. And we will need to be mindful about the actual genuine ways that survivors respond to these experiences, along with the people who unfortunately witness it. Who also become traumatized
My main concern right now, as someone who can't seem to find the manga anywhere to read, is that the river bank scene immediately after is the only time we get acknowledgment from the author that this happened. Haruki/Kiriko (just gonna call her sis) breaking down about not being the person that should need protection is a good and very real start to a larger conversation maru and her should have about what happened. I understand that everyone reacts differently to something like this, so I'd be fine if the first couple episodes after this in the next season are just them acting normal, maybe maru trying to treat sis like he did before. And maybe compared to a couple episodes prior, where she literally hallucinated herself getting eaten alive, she already feels as though she's been through worse. Idk, I just need a scene outside of the riverbank one that talks about how the SA affected sis. I've read some discussion posts and I'm really worried the author just shoehorned the grape scene in to make the audience feel bad for sis, and to give maru his big moment to come save her and beat up Robin. The fact that after the riverbank scene, they just hop in the van and she quite literally says "Welp, no point in being depressed forever." is strongly suggesting the author just wants us to move past what happened like it was nothing, and that's going to drive me insane if that's the case because it would just feel out of character. A kid whose mind is in his sister's body being graped by the man he considered an older brother should have some sort of lasting consequence on his psyche, idc if its an action anime. Ok so I found somewhere I could read the manga and read the entirety of it up to the current chapter, that being chapter 59 I believe. Or somewhere close. There is some acknowledgment in chapter 39 on sis's end about how what robin did made her feel worthless, and how she can't let someone like Maru fall in love with someone like her. Sort of "Damaged goods" mentality, which is a very interesting approach. Outside of that chapter there's really only little things scattered among the remaining chapters up to current time, but most the chapters in the 40's and up are so story focused that it feels like there's hardly any time for natural character development, so gut instinct is we're due for some kind of emotion dump sometime soon, or maybe robin will poke his head up again.
Also Kiruko completely "forgets" about het goals and focuses on Maru only. As far as I remember there is no single panel where she asks about the doctor or shows his picture to anyone until chapter 52...
Just finished binging this show, I have never needed to see so badly a character getting theirs. I need to read the manga just because I need to fucking see Robin dead.
Unfortunately, you'll be waiting with the rest of us. Robin has yet to reappear. However, there are many long-term consequences to what happens at the end of the anime that I think people will enjoy. And chances are that Robin is going to face a very fitting end for all the messed up stuff he's done.
I kinda get where your coming from but there's one MAJOR issue for me especially when comparing it to Berserk. in Berserk all actions have major consequences for all character involved ESPECCIALY the eclipse and what happened to Casca. it shapes them all and redefines the plot. This happens in chapter 32-33 and we are now on chapter 58, and it is mentioned once Robin essentially despawns from the story entirely and maru and Kiruko just go back to normal. In fact you can just skip those chapters/episodes and the rest of the plot/characters stay the same. its nasty and feels like the other sneaking in a SA/NTR fetish
I absolutely agree with that theory and it would help provide an explanation for why Robin would execute Kiriko in the middle of saving her brother!... I'm glad that it looks like the newest arc will be exploring his backstory so we can figure out more about the guy and set up the inevitable rematch.
I agree with you about Martin. It's an exciting read while it lasts, but after a while, I feel nothing, I analyse nothing. I prefer stories like this, or Kokou no hito, or Vinland saga, or Haikyuu for that matter. Each have loads of little truths about life that taken together aren't that little at all. Over the years I've come to greatly appreciate stories that end on the positive note. If the character arc is done well and if action follows insights, then they're not only realistic, but also inspiring and illuminating. Thinking that "darker is better" or "more realistic" is just immature. In the end, it gives nothing to the audience. Once you realise that what you're seeing is not a thing in itself, but your interpretation of it, everything changes - and even though periods of darkness always come and go, you still know that there's something greater behind. Something beyond good and evil. Forgiving and letting go emerges from there - but you have to go through some things to realise it.
Excellent comment! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I think that we crave positive endings because they help us to contextualize all the crap the characters went through. It puts their lives and ours into perspective and helps us find lessons and messages that are ennobling and make us feel more confident in recommending these amazing stories. And it all taps into an important truth: that no matter no hard your life gets, it still matters, you matter, and at the end of the day there is more goodness and beauty in the world than we often care to admit. That's one of the reasons why I was so happy to hear Kentaro Mura say he wanted to give Berserk a happy ending. He said the characters deserved it, and it gives meaning and redemption to Guts who struggles against everything and keeps coming back no matter how often he is defeated. It's just the dark fantasy version of Rocky's speech about getting back up.
@@camillesharem Yes. Beauty indeed is in the eyes of the beholder, and I greatly appreciate that I see it more and more in unexpected places - just like I appreciate every little thing that helps me see it where before I could not. I believe stories play a significant part in how we see the world, because we see through them, really. Even the smallest belief is only a story, and most of them we've heard from others and assimilated. Whether we like them or not, if we believe them to be true, they will act like a prism and distort everything we see to fit the story we keep repeating in our heads. That's all the more reason to look for, appreciate and create stories that challenge our beliefs, widen our worldview and open our horizons. Out into the world and into other humans, so we could understand the wonderful complexity of our own psyche.
Oh brother I do not agree with u and I'm sorry ur words are not close to being excellent to me The reason being.. ending a character story by ending it Darker or evil and violent, I feel this is the right way that does showcase the reality of this life.. It makes u know that there are Good and evil and just because u are Good don't mean u will get something Good in return, and also it let's you know that if u get wronged by an enemy doesn't mean u will be will end Ur life with something Good by just simply existing. This is the reality of life U know that there is evil and Good And know how to manipulate it and use it in your own way to win this war (Real life) cus I don't believe life is just a life , I see it as a constant survival.. and any wrong move could END YOU, its crazy. And lastly the idea about your comment talking about ending life with being free and forgiven and moving on knowing how to live beyond the bounds of evil and hurts This your idea is the Delusions almost every human on this Real life use to escape thier reality, it works and helps keep your sanity and that's Great But it doesn't stop BAD AND EVIL from coming to YOU directly .. Happy ending is an Illusion and a Dark ending is the Logical Facts and only if u are understandable with how the life works u would understand to accept reality for what it is. U have to acknowledge that Good and Evil exists and YOU MUST SURVIVE
@@phyzyprogrammer5076 I'm just going to say that Dante Alghieri, who suffered more than most people in modern times have, would disagree. That's the whole point of the Divine Comedy. Life cannot just be about survival, it must have meaning. And you see that play out in the post-apocalyptic lives of the main characters and all the side characters in Heavenly Delusion. Even one of the arcs that has yet to be animated, where they help another rape victim get revenge, the manga makes it very clear that there's more to life than survival and darkness. Good and evil do exist in the world, but to attempt to manipulate them is little more than playing the game, where if you don't have "power", you'll get crushed by the bigger players. And that's sadly how too many people are taught to see the world. I saw that too often with my students, who felt they had no hope and no chance after graduating. But the reality is very different from that. Life is about finding meaning, finding happiness, and dealing with your problems in a way that do the most good for yourself and others. That's probably the most common consensus from ancient to modern philosophy, and from religions east to west. And that's why is resonates so much with humanity, these kinds of stories. And that is why we have to grapple with the weight of this season's ending and discuss it, not just dismiss it or take it at face value.
@camillesharem691 You do have a nice way of putting words together and sadly that's all it is. Just words being put together and will never ever stop the reality of being GOOD AND EVIL . Even on your way finding happiness u can still end up being betrade even after knowing exactly what u are doing In life. I will like to give u some examples bro.. I am in a relationship with a girl I actually love deeply But now she doesn't really care bout me but ad long as I can make her happy that's all that matters to her. And I have tried to make this work out Thousand of times with this same girl and she still has the same mentality of not just caring about other people's feelings as long as hers is ideal ... (Now this lead me to ask for love in the most unloving way and even begging for a little Attention in anyway I can and even the love is an embarrassing way of loving someone I still want it and that's fuxked up to me) Now what I wanna bring out from this is that instead of me covering up the reality and moving on and trying to not see what the reality is. I simply acknowledge that some people just can't be helped no matter what and if u happen to encounter those types of people when u are trying to move on from life then u would end up falling into it.. Now my own mentality to stop this Evil is I simply become lone and very closed person. I realise that not saying anything bout what hurts me makes me even more safer than telling someone to help me.. I Understand the reality and now I use it against them! I don't just treat people harshly I have EMPATHY, so I know exactly how it feels to threat someone bad, so I am able to know exactly what to do and I am able to understand my situation better.. In fact I 💯 use LOGICAL thinking in real life. Its simply on survival and they only people safe from me are the people care about or hv EMPATHY for, But if there was to be a war and I see 3 little children crying in a room while we are trying to escape from the enemy..I will simply only Attempt to Try to calm them then if they can't be calmed I won't DIE just because of them .. I'm gonna throw them out and they gon meet their faith! This is reality bro.. trying to ignore it and pretend it's all happiness simply makes u become WEAK and sadly Good people gets the most hurt and pains while Bad people gets the most happiness.. so why not see this life for what it really is and know exactly how to survive, I only Got this one life, I simply don't know if there is an after life and I don't intend on wasting my once life chance on being Kind and moving on to happiness while suffering! And one more thing I hard to learn the hard way is that Pain doesn't dissappear, YOU just learn how to live with it because there's memories to remember all this (so u simply learn live life with u pain but u will be in controll of your mind to controll the pain)
You're coming from a very western perspective. Not really wrong perse, but missing some nuance. Makyō for instance is a Buddhist concepts referring to the kind of delusions one might experience during meditation that try to keep you away from enlightment. Literally it means something like world of demons.
Thanks for the added perspective. That does help shape the nuance and understanding of what is going on here and further emphasizes how human the many arcs and stories within Heavenly Delusion are.
The truth of the matter is that we don't really know. Even in the manga, we can only guess why he killed Kiriko and left Haruki to die. He's told a number of lies, so we can't really trust the story he told to Kriuko. So, my best guess would be that he had plans for something within the city or to leave it and wanted Kiriko to leave her brother and join him. She refused and he killer her to make sure that she couldn't interfere or call what few authorities there were to stop him. Haruki's death by Man Eater was just a pleasant bonus because he didn't like the kid. And that probably came from a combination of jealousy and just being annoyed with this upstart, young punk who's always following him around and even has the audacity to try and upstage Robin. And I think that's probably the mindset Robin had when he tried to kill them.
Interestingly, while reading the manga it occurred to me that I don't need to know - and neither does Kiruko. In life, we don't always know the reasons people do things they do. Sometimes they hurt is and we never find out why. We don't always get the closure we crave. I've learned to let go anyway, and I've come to believe that's more empowering than knowing the exact reasons: to fore-give - give in advance, without knowing, or rather, knowing that there is a reason even if I'll never know it myself. It's not something that soothes the ego, but it allows a feeling of freedom like nothing else. It actually sets you free. It would be interesting if the author chose to depict something like that for Kiruko.
I’m rewatching this anime with my wife who’s never seen it because I missed out on a lot of stuff cause I initially found the scenes from the nursery boring and didn’t pay attention too well. My first time watching that scene really disturbed me for several days. I had it spoiled for me and it still hit extremely hard. I will say, I know the whole trans aspect is kind of a point of contention for some people, but I do read into Kiruko as a trans woman based off her shedding Haruki as an identity at the end of Season 1 and several other scenes both in the manga and the anime.
Yeah, the nursery plotline doesn't get very interesting until later. A lot of it is about foreshadowing the horrible things to come. You picked up on the right clues about Kiruko. This horrible incident with Robin really transforms her way of thinking about herself. And it is something that continues throughout the manga. Both identities of Haruki and Kiriko are melting away and becoming another person entirely. And I think that despite the first season's ending, the story on the whole handles her transition very well. At least in the manga.
I honestly look back at kiriko’s interactions with the doctor as a bit strange. Like she’s TOO clingy with this guy. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were involved sexually. Robin however is a bit strange. But I wouldn’t put it passed her being involved with robin the same way. And he’s just enough of an asshole to force haruki to watch.
The manga is clear that Kiriko was not involved with the doctor. Haruki was very interested in the Doctor because Robin was. And for Kiruko, she's interested in the Doctor because he holds the answers to what happened with the siblings and why she ended up the way she did. And those answers were just given the most recent arc! Woohoo!
The manga is clear that Kiriko was not involved with the doctor. Haruki was very interested in the Doctor because Robin was. And for Kiruko, she's interested in the Doctor because he holds the answers to what happened with the siblings and why she ended up the way she did. And those answers were just given the most recent arc! Woohoo!
I have a theory that the doctor had switched bodies with robin cause people believed that the doctor was doing experiments with humans and monsterers and robin was one of the people who disappeared.
That's an interesting theory. I will give you a spoiler: the doctor didn't switch bodies with Robin. You will find out though, the doctor is no stranger to switching bodies and brains. And that exact reveal is a really cool one and has heavy implications for Maru of all people.
Huh I had the same theory. Mainly because Robin never seemed to have any scientific inclinations before. And now he’s restoring agriculture plants and conducting human experiment actions? Seemed not consistent with at least haruki’s flashbacks if you can consider that accurate.
For Heavenly Delusion i felt the scene & could not read/watch it. It was tough to do so. That says that it was written with care & respect. So did i feel when reading/watching banana fish. For berserk however i felt it was overused and many times not necessary Its sad that of all the animes i have watched over 400 at this point i can only remember 3 anime which actually adresses these themes & only 2 of them feels respectful & sincere. Its even sadder when people say things like these scenes are not necessary its for the authors fetish etc. Like bro get out & watch what real world is. These thinga happen so often in real life. Another thing i find a problem is the demographic - i think men fail to realize how common these things are so HD gets a backlash But BF which is a shoujo doesn't cz girls are way more accustomed with these things and they understand. Had this been published as a shojo/josei it wouldnt have had faced so much backladh
I tune out whenever I hear the tired old ‘but the story doesn’t NEED scenes like this, you don’t want to glorify [insert bad thing] less is more!” Like no, shut up. This is actually terrible and stifling advice for fledgling creators. Some of the best and most raw media exists because the creators didn’t give a damn. Do you think Swery gives a damn when he writes for No More Heroes? It’s make believe. The artist should feel free to be as indulgent as they want. It’s not the artist’s responsibility to care about whether or not people find the work uncomfortable or who gets off on what. Art exists to get a response. In the end, it’s all fiction. If the artist wants to depict a problematic situation and stylise it in a way that makes it seem titillating or gratituous, then that is what they should do. There’s a certain art form to making spicy edgy schlock and I’m sick of people trying to act like it isn’t entertaining.
can someone help me understand, EVEN IF HER SISTER WAS! INSIDE HER!! why would robin prove it or solidify it by raping her??? if he was trying to convince her that her sister was merged with her couldnt he have just explained it to her???
Robin did it to torture Haruki. It's all but confirmed that he murdered Kiriko when she was trying to save her brother, whom Robin actively hated. The manga drops more than enough hints that this was the case. With both of them back, Robin showed his true colors, having a second chance with Kriko's body and relishing a chance to hurt Haruki. The guy is straight up monster who raped Kiruko because he wanted to hurt her. His talk about an experiment was nothing but the thinnest veneer for an excuse. The manga just dropped the start to another arc, that looks like we'll dive once again into Robin's story and it appears that Maru and Robin will finally have their rematch. At least, that is what is being set up right now. That means we'll likely get some kind of awful explanation for WHY Robin is the monster that he is.
@@camillesharem thank you so much i was so confused and bothered by this. what a monster. i hate that Kiruko still didnt want any harm to come to him when Maru couldve killed him. was it beacuse she loved him as family or romantically?
@@Ninpoon214 To my understanding when reading through the manga, Kiruko was going through a lot. She felt so betrayed by someone she had deeply cared about and respected and had no idea what to do with him. She didn't even think she would be saved. After the fight, Kiruko tries to make sense of what happened saying that she had Maru spare Robin because she didn't want him to be a murderer, but her thought process shows that she's suffering under guilt, thinking she is responsible for what happened to her. In that respect, she acts like many, many unfortunate victims of sexual assault. I am happy to say that as the story goes on, Kiruko does start moving on, and Maru is a very healing influence on her. That will all be presumably be put to the test in this upcoming arc, so... Check back in six months and hopefully we'll have more answers! And hopefully Maru puts Robin six feet under, because that bastard does deserve it. And not just for the rape, but also for his murders and experiments on other people.
if robin was having sex with kiruko for 3 days straight then there is a high chance that she might be pregnant. Ohohohoho.... that will be the worst possible NTR outcome.... Maru had to raise someone else baby like a cuck.... andrew tate talked about this.
That possibility has been a ticking time bomb in the manga. We'll probably get an answer shortly after the current arc has wrapped up, if Kiruko is pregnant or not. EDIT: The newest chapter of Heavenly Delusion was just released. Kiruko's back on that time of month. Looks like Maru won't get the worst NTR route at the moment.
@@yamete_kudasai6969 He wasn't good before the time skip. Robin was always up to something shady. You don't murder the girl you're in relationship with unless you're messed up! We don't know everything about Robin at the moment, and in the manga he is currently out in the wind, so we aren't likely to have any answers until he shows up again in the manga. And the story is building up to that!
**SPOILER ALERT** I haven't thought about this show since watching the end of the first season with a friend, for good reason. I enjoyed most of season 1, until the final two episodes. The scenes which depicted sexual assault were treated with very little tact or respect, when it is actually one of the most traumatizing things a person can live through in reality, and the characters involved just shrug it off and go about their business within minutes. The boy-in-a-girl's-body character was just so unnatural after the event, it was like asking a blind person to describe the difference between periwinkle and lavender. They end the season with "all's well that ends well" with our main characters back on their mission as if nothing happened. It just didn't sit right with me, it makes me think the writers have never met anyone in their life who was affected by sexual assault, so they have no respectful frame of reference to write from. I'm not interested in seeing anything else from this show or any of it's writers if they want to use rape as a minor plot device and nothing more. All of the creative nuance, likeable characters, refreshingly different style of post-apocalyptic setting, natural humor, etc. was all flushed down a toilet at the end, and I will proceed to shrug off this series and it's creators as easily as they think people can shrug off kidnapping and rape.
I can understand your response to the final episodes. I can assure you that the story does not treat this moment lightly moving forward. Kiruko is going to struggle with a lot, Maru as well. It takes many more adventures before Kiruko comes to terms with what is happening to her and can start moving on. Having read the manga, I believe it handles the serious subject matter very well. The anime's pacing has largely removed some of the more subtle, nuanced moments that help contextualize what is going on. Now, if you don't want to continue with the story, I will be the last person to pressure you into doing so. This is a very divisive moment in the story, which is why I felt it was necessary to make this video and help explain things. From there, everyone should make their own choice to continue with it or drop it. But I will reiterate that this experience puts Kiruko and Maru on a path of personal growth that is shockingly healing and cathartic.
It's not like people put up internal barriers or completely lock away the memories of the event as a coping mechanism. You know, put on a mask of nothing bad happened, Iam still ok type of stuff.
@@aaronabbey2604 Agreed, that is indeed one of many coping mechanisms for survivors of sexual assault. However, there was no internal monologue, no cut-away scenes, no flashback, or any audio/visual technique that the writers/director could have offered to the audience that would show some kind of tact or any attention to the severity of the trauma that just occurred over the course of days. I understand if anyone wants to continue enjoying this series, by all means please do so, but I won't defend it's cavalier approach to depicting rape survival.
@@camillesharem I appreciate the respectful reply, thank you kindly. I suppose this may be a case where, as many fans of different media have popularized, "The book/manga was better" but, hopefully the future episodes will offer a little more attention to such sensitive subject matter. It is reassuring that at least it puts them in the direction of healing and growth in one iteration of the story.
@@AnoNymous-gn6tl You're welcome./ I also hope that the second season spends the necessary time to show how the events of the finale affect Kiruko and Maru and helps the audience to realize how they get onto the path of growth and healing.
It's just horrible setting. If you pay attention to manga or anime. You can see there were two set of utensils, shower room, towel, and the handcuff was changed to loose rope. The passenger said 3 days and she moaned in a enjoyable way which means they do it, eating, do it, shower, eating, keep doing it, sleep, wake up, talk, then do it again in this order for 3 days! Even worse, when he trying to kill robin. She just couple bites and easily lossed rope and escaped. Even though if the writter was trying to make a betrayle or men mind transition to women mind. It is a disgusting and unbelievable setting. I thought hentai girls are dumb enough but she is just in another level.
Kiruko gnawing her way out is a little much, but I am always flabbergasted that everyone takes the guard at his word that she was enjoying what Robin was doing to her. Everything that we can see and hear refutes that claim. And as others have pointed out here in the comments, victims of abuse find themselves in very awful and confusing circumstances. I'll speak personally and say that many abuse victims in my circles for a wide variety of deep, personal, and often strange reasons, could not easily escape their awful situations. A scene like this should generate those kinds of discussions and observations. But again, gnawing her way out super quick was a little weird. It still highlights how messed up the whole affair is.
@@camillesharemwe have to take into account the psyche Kiruko is in. He still believes he is Kiruko, and repeatedly, Robin convinces him that who's getting graped is Haruki. He's barely fighting back because he was not the one being assaulted, and part of him felt like he's the one making "love" to her sister because that's what he sees and felt at the same time thru the mirror. Robin really effed him physically and mentally (not that grape doesn't do that, its just that Robin did it in multiple layers) At the end of the day, it was disgusting enough to convey the message. But not a barbaric excuse for a grape scene.
I understand that sentiment. I honestly blame the lack of warning for the Western side of the audience on Disney, because they mishandled its distribution, which would have included warnings. Because, otherwise, you'd have needed to read the manga to know what was coming up. Just like how Goblin Slayer warns viewers what they're about to see, Heavenly Delusion would have gotten the same. But Disney buried the series, which meant it had none of the warnings you'd expect for a series with that kind of content.
This just sucks.. Disturbing to infinity. Idk what sick type person author must be. Manga is more harsh, is it neccesary to sexualise everything in worst way possible? Imagine u made a character then u humiliate it in all ways..seems sick. This is just a fetish nothing else..as mch as i love anime..there shd b a boundary...see mushoku tensei rent-a-gf ...thy leave no one n nothing. I wish if there ws an end to human flith
God...what a Robert Jordan fanboy. Considering he milked the series and died before he could finish it just like George RR will do as well. His writing was okay...he wasn't Jesus like you make him sound. I think Tad Williams and others are far more gifted but each to their own. Just rate the series and stop bringing in other books or authors into Anime....makes the argument weak and useless.
No is forcing you to watch it. There is no need 2 be a disrespectful piece of @£^^! The man is just sharing his opinions and thoughts on something he likes. No need to be a #£%^ about it!
As good as the world building goes I really hate how stupid that kid is (im talking about kuriko younger brother). First he fought a man eater alone causing her sister to die, then he let some punk use her dead sisters body. Idk whats the deal with him.
Haruki is a kid who did cause some problems and definitely did not deal with the consequences of his man Eater hunt in any positive way. I will say that the manga does a fantastic job of developing Kiruko's character, which in turn elevates and redeems Haruki of the lot of the nonsense he purposefully and inadvertently caused.
Jc don't justify rape. Most Japanese manga artist/writers that have implied or show things like this have themselves been caught in sexual assault crime or scandal. It's really not needed to push a theme or enforce an idea.
Are you people for real, so easy triggered by a light scene! Indeed was unpleasant but it was light and more on a sugestive path not descriptive one even so as it need it to be realistic as to advance the story and make it count for later developments. i don't know why you need to make excuses for a half hour. If you live under a glass bell you will have some big trauma later in life, so just break it!
For me the problem with the scene is how the camera treats it as fanserivce, focusing on harukis body, the deeply ingraind transphobic undertones and how badly it treats gender in general. Its ok to have bad sexual things to happen to the characters, that doesnt mean showing it explicitly and even providing fanservice off the situation. It could have been (the act) needed for plot reasona but it definetly wasnt depicted in a respectful way at all.
I don't think there is a respectful way to depict rape other than cut to black, signaling to the audience what has transpired. Our imaginations automatically do the rest. The anime doesn't even hold a candle to what the manga shows. And I've read a lot of fan service garbage, I would argue this isn't it. There is no glorification, no pointless jiggle physics, and the scene wraps up way faster than it did in the manga. The story wants to impress upon the audience how vile Robin and his actions are. It's manipulative and unnatural. Now, is showing that a good thing? That is the big question, and as you'll see throughout these comments, there are loads of differing opinions and discussions, and I find that healthy and informative for any writers who has the guts to tackle a subject and material like this.
U just created an illusion to escape the reality of what life is. The way it was shown is the way it happen in real life and u either survive or become a victim and sadly EVIL DONT CARE
the way you can see her hands moving I can almost feel it. it physically hurts in a way I honestly didn't know a show could. The image is just as much burned into my brain as it is almost blurry, like the memory is hazy yet so vivid. For the record, I've had no experience with SA, but that scene, and the subsequent related scenes after where she's talking it to herself, and to Maru put me into a disturbed depression every time I think too deeply on it. This anime is absolutely perfect at hurting me in the most horrible way possible
And that's exactly the point. Unlike so many other stories that do this stuff to play it off for laughs, edginess, or cheap drama, Heavenly Delusion really wanted to communicated in both the manga and anime just how awful Robin is and what he did to Kiruko. It was monstrous.
For all the people who equate Kiruko stopping Maru from offing Robin as evidence of her love/enjoyment... They're looking in the wrong place. I would argue it's more love for Maru and love for self- just because something monstrous happened to them, it doesnt mean they should become monsters.
You're on the right track with that line of thinking. The manga supports that as well when it goes into the next adventure they have and we get an excellent window into Kiruko's thoughts regarding herself and Maru.
@@camillesharem eeee, a creator reply! Thanks for making this video ~ and I agree; can't wait to see where the siblings 'end up' as a character by the end of the story
@@tsukinokitsun3 Always happy to reply to people who take time to comment on our videos. :)
Same here, I'm really interested to find out what happens with Kiruko. The current arc in the manga gives us some hope for the siblings.
Yeah I thought Kiruko stopped Maru from killing Robin because she didn’t want Maru to keep believing that all he’s good at is killing.
@@frewtlewps1152 That is a part of her reasoning in the arc that follows her reunion with Robin. However, there's way more to it than that. Plus, Kiruko quickly learns that thinking about Maru that way only serves to belittle someone she's come to deeply care about.
I think both things are happening in different timelines. The school timeline is old timeline and Maru timeline is present timeline. Children of this school were actually responsible for the great disaster.The two twin children we saw in last episode were actually Maru and his twin brother.
There are definitely two timelines going on. The children lived through the apocalypse and Maru and Kiruko's journey is happening nearly 2 decades later.
Oh I like this theory
It's not a theory.
Maru and Kiriko run into some of the "kids," later on in the first season of the anime, though it's not completely obvious that they are whom they are unless you're paying strict attention
@@miekoisboredwhen
If anyone ever reads this currently in chapter 56(take with a grain of salt) Kiruko got her period again after the event that happened with robin. So she’s more than likely not pregnant(hopefully)
Letting robin live we definitely play a bigger role in the future. Especially for Kiruko, like the Oppressed Overcoming the Oppressor or something like that in the future. Also probably the mangaka let robin live so next time we see him he dies a very slow and horrible death
💯
Yeah, I read that chapter shortly after its translation was released. There was a lot going on in it! So, it looks like Kiruko is moving on from Robin in a few ways. And that will all come together later down the road. Robin has a lot to answer for, and Maru and Kiruko have to be in a different headspace I think in order to properly deal with him and not just let that whole arc be a revenge arc. We've already had a couple of those and we see how those go.
Here's something that wasn't mentioned I'd like to bring light to. I've been SA'ed both in my childhood and adulthood. My coworker and I have developed some sort of crush and he told me to watch this anime. Anyway, you're right when you mentioned that scenes like this can be necessary if used correctly. But I feel like the most important part of the episode wasn't talked about. From a victims perspective all we've ever wanted was for someone to save us from the horrible things that were done to us. My therapist once asked me to rewrite my SA to the story that I wanted to depict. And honestly it would go something like this. Maru reminds me of my friend. He makes me feel so safe, like no one would dare hurt me while he's around. I have a hard time falling asleep in public, but if I'm near him I can feel myself dozing off. There are so many other instances in which he has made me feel safe, but I think you get the picture.
Maru's confession at the end of the episode broke me into a sobbing mess. Okay so he confesses his confused love to her. It was adorable and so so sweet. And then he mentions how strong he thinks she is, which was so sweet because she was just crying about how weak she is. (Cue the waterworks.) BUT THEN he promises to always protect her if she's in danger from now on. Fuck that hurt. It hurts that he feels guilty for not being there for her when she needed him. I'd imagine this is how my friend feels when I talk about my trauma to him that he said sends shivers down his spine.
All in all, I don't think Maru's confession would have been nearly as significant if the SA scene hadn't happened (nor the violent beating afterwards). And yeah while revenge doesn't cleanse the soul it helps us know evil will think twice before it strikes again, which honestly is a lot more than today's justice system can do.
Thank you so much for sharing that. I am very sorry to hear that you've had to suffer through SA both in your childhood and adult life, but I am also very glad and proud of you that you could share all of that with us. I must agree, Maru's confession is so much more powerful because of the horrible experience Kiruko just underwent with Robin. In a moment of weakness, confusion, and pain, he's trying to give her love, stability, patience, and understanding. Otherwise, it might feel out of place, but it becomes exactly what Kiruko needs.
And what I love reading in the manga is how that slowly bears itself out with future arcs and discoveries. There is healing and the chance to move on. The manga's current arc is going to challenge their progress, but it's the rematch that the story needs!
that scene made me sick and was hard to watch, granted it did it's job and I don't hate it. What I didn't like is that the anime decided to end when it did. There is no follow up context and i felt that the character that got graped seemed to get over it way too quickly. Obviously im sure she isnt over it, but I think 10 min later ripping up the photo and saying she cant stay depressed forever wasnt enough and felt rushed.
Oh yeah! I agree. We're getting a second season and if it's done right, it will address the fallout and growth after this event, but it felt really rushed. To be fair to the anime creators, I think they wanted the two timelines to coincide with the moments when the heroes have their illusions shattered. In the manga, the breakout from the school happened a couple of chapters after everything went down with Robin. By forcing the two storylines to run side-by-side, a lot of important details were omitted or are getting pushed back to season 2.
I think Kiruko is hiding her feelings so that she appears strong in front of Maru, because of her previous trauma of being unable to protect Hiruko.
I love the ending outro was the same happy music but in the last episode she was raped
My theory is she's masking, bottling up her emotions. This anime has a track record, we'll see more introspection as time goes on, little details that make us aware that she's not ok. Maybe from bottling up all the emotions, she explodes, and it all pours out.
As I said, jst theories. I haven't watched the manga ^^"
I don't give a f- Robin should have had a horrendous death for what he did! 🤬
Have yet to watch this episode because I read the manga up to latest chapter a few weeks ago and dunno if I'm ready to see it animated lol. Highly recommend everyone who doesn't wanna wait for a season that may or may not come to read the manga it's so fuckin good
The most impactful writing of this kind of scene that I've personally experienced is from a book called "On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous" by Ocean Vuong. In that book he retold a story of soldiers tieing a monkey down the leg of a table, opening up its skull to spoon out its brains because there was a myth that says it would give them strength, and it is heavily implied that the MC's mother was treated in the same way as the monkey and might also just be a fake story to tell the real story of his mother's experience. I can never put my finger as to why that image felt so correct, without even portraying the actual scene the writer was able to give us the feeling of people that experienced these things.
I've never heard of that story before. Thanks for sharing. It's really incredible when authors are able to communicate those awful, shared experiences to help the readers contemplate and understand something that they might have been unable to otherwise. It can be incredibly rough to go through, but it can be an enlightening experience. Which is why I couldn't bring myself to condemn the scene in Heavenly Delusion. While it's not a scene I like, it is a necessary one to communicate so many harsh ideas that we would otherwise not want to engage with.
thanks tonnes for this video, really helped me settle my thoughts for this heavy scene, and put a better light on the series as a whole rather than leave me with a bitter taste at the end!
Happy that I could help make sense of it all and help you work through it. It's a very intense and traumatic moment, and definitely needs some processing to not leave you feeling wholly wrecked.
The nice thing is that the manga's newest chapter just dropped today, giving us some very hopeful exposition and a scene that all but confirms that Kiruko is not going to have any pregnancy issues as a result of her short time with Robin.
all the scenes has something to do with the story. Every small detail, just like the drawings Kona make. I personally enjoy this Anime, im excited and trilled on what comes next.
That was really horrible and disturbing...
Im glad that you spoke on this situation.
I am a victim as well, it is hard to speak up because of victim blaming...
I do feel like stories like this should be made instead of avoided.
Mirror real life.
Thank you for sharing that. I hope I was able to express my thoughts and analysis in a respectful manner to anyone who has gone through similar situations.
It was tough watching this I was constantly thinking maybe Maru will kill Robin before robin can grape her i was really sad in the scene where he says it's been 2 days since kiriko left The anime left me pretty upset after that ep 13 was depressing
It's rough. It's very rough to watch and to consider. The manga goes into even more detail.
The second season will pick up in an interesting place. Kiruko has a lot to sort out, but there's a story that I'd argue delivers a lot of healing and perspective to her. Maru as well grows in an interesting way that strengthens their relationship. And it all leads to a pretty crazy moment right now playing out in the manga.
@@camillesharem ic thank god i didnt read the manga . S2 will be intresting ig
@@camillesharemit will be good to see their relationship getting stronger but are you sure season 2 will arrive
@@divyanshutanwar3225 Season 2 was already announced. Unless something crazy happens to disrupt the studio, I'd expect us to see season 2 sometime in two to three years.
@@camillesharem ohh mann two to three years is a huge time 😭 but thx bro for replying really love this anime 👍🏼🔥🔥❤️
I watch a lot of anime. So it’s great when I find something this different. But not only different with this one but also one that doesn’t hold your hand, is very emotional, and truly packs punches. This is shaping up to be one of my favorites, I think it’s brilliant so far.
Ngl I’ve never read a manga in my life but I’m tempted to pick this up as my first one, if not on paper I’m sure there’s somewhere online where I can read ‘em.. hope so lol
It's a tricky manga to get your hands on because of how it runs on the darker side of things. However, if you do get the chance to read it, it's worth it!
Honestly you make a great point, but i just cant get over how over the top this scene was i think the grape wasn’t necessary. Maybe I’m just weak but this scene ruined my day and everything els i looked at. To me i just saw a character i likes so much get SAed for no reason.
That's not being weak; that's a very natural response to have when confronted with something so vile. Again, it's not the kind of stuff I'd want to put into my own stories, or at least, I wouldn't dedicate a scene to it. Assault is very real and its consequences devastating. This is why I felt it was important to address this beyond reactionary commentary or the opposite of being deliberately cringe and disrespectful. It's something that needs to be talked about. If anyone feels repulsed by the scene, that is perfectly acceptable.
I understand how you feel. I felt the same when there was an SA scene in Berserk. I had to take a break from the series for a bit.
Yeah i can relate to that. I mean I knew this anime contained some bloody scenes or naked scenes yet I never expected a grape scene. It was just so random and sudden I was shocked and it also ruined my day tbh.
Maru should kick robin balls
Robin's got it coming!
I hope Maru does the heart squashing thing on Robin after kicking him in the balls
Thank you for making this, although the anime only reaction is more reasonable compare to the manga side, things like this still need to be said
Also since Berserk is brought up here, there is an assault scene in that story before the Eclipse when Guts was betrayed by his adoptive father that is pretty similar to the Robin scene in Heavenly Delusion
There are a lot of intense and traumatic moments in Berserk that deserve to be analyzed and appreciated. Guts' early life puts the Golden Age Arc into a context that explains how Guts comes to the conclusion that he must leave the Band of the Hawk, and that fateful decision puts so much into motion. Gambino's treatment of Guts and selling him was not only perverse and demented, but essential to mold Guts into a man who can defy fate and rise to become a hero, not just a valuable mercenary. And that's why those scenes work and aren't just there for the shock value.
I love the religous aspects of this anime. I have to read the manga
(a year late bc i tried waiting for at least a second season before watching only to binge the whole thing this afternoon while trying to get over writer's block ;A;) i know a female or femme character's growth/development being catalyzed by a sexual assault is a bit tired, but i do agree--in this specific mental/psychological dynamic, it leans into the existing themes of & adds so much more depth to the anime. the scene was definitely shocking, but doesn't feel like it was crammed in there just for shock value. i mean, her (him?) crying in relief, releasing all the tension from years of just trying to survive + find Robin right before Robin's betrayal i think will always haunt me. and while Maru doesn't see it like the viewers do, he was definitely privy to Kiruko's Heavenly Delusion, as it were, & how it all came crashing down in such a horrifying way. it's bound to affect how he sees the 'Heaven' they're looking for, & i, too, hope it saves him or at least steels him from a betrayal like Kiruko's.
I can say that Maru has his own few shocks waiting for him down the pipe, but it's still Kiruko who is going through the most character development and discovery still. And a second round between them and Robin is brewing...
The manga is a wild ride! But it treats the events of this episode with due respect and long-reaching consequences like one would expect, and that is another very commendable element to the overall story.
Robin got his ass kicked by maru
Stumbled upon this video as I just finished S1 and was looking for people sharing their thoughts and opinions on the topic as it did indeed leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
Decent analysis I must say, and I do agree on multiple points you raised in the video, however I'm still not convinced that the SA scene, as it was shown, was justified and necessary for the story. In my opinion, from the writing standpoint, it goes way too far for objectively no reason and it does indeed appear like a cheap shock value, edgy just for the sake of it. I'd argue that the author could've achieved that same result without going as far as they did and it could've been more in tone with the rest of the plot. The way it's wrapped up makes very little sense to me too and makes it less realistic and harder to comprehend and that's why some people are upset I think (well, including myself I guess).
In my opinion, for the betterment of the story they could've done either one of two things. For example, having Robin attempt the assault and failing due to Maru coming in for the rescue at the very last moment would've been a more cohesive story line (more dramatic and satisfying as well I'd say) and more in line with everything that is happening before and after. It still keeps the horrific nature of the assault and the character of Robin being portrayed as a horrible monster, causing all the potential character growth as it was initially intended, but without going too far into 'edgyness'. Something like that would fit much better with the rest of the plot and it's tone in my opinion.
On the other hand, if author felt like it was extremely necessary to go as far as the SA scene actually goes, to show all the true horror of the 'delusion' and post-apoc, they should've presented us with proper immediate consequences, characters talking about it, helping each other go through these horrific events.. and definitely not just brushing it all under the rug in 3 minutes by ripping Robins picture apart and saying 'I can't stay depressed forever'. Well, yes, both Maru and Kiriko do indeed have a conversation after, but it just feels a bit lacklustre considering the severity of what Kiriko had to go through, mind you, FOR 2 DAYS, FROM A PERSON WHO WAS A FATHER FIGURE SHE(HE) WAS LOOKING FOR FOR 5 YEARS. IT'S INSANE.
All that said, I do not oppose to SA/rape scenes being included in a decent story as plot devises and ways to make characters grow, especially considering the post-apocalyptic setting and everything, but due to it's sensitive nature it should be handled with utmost care and done properly, like you mentioned in your concluding thoughts. The show however made it seem somewhat lazy for me and as I mentioned before - somewhat unnecessarily edgy/overboard. The show was decent, up until that scene. It sort of spoiled the whole experience and it just felt distasteful and cheap. That's my assessment.
It's all subjective of course. I'd be glad to read what others think and I'll probably scroll through the comments, when I post this.
There is most definitely a very necessary discussion to be had here about how much/how long any SA scene should go on. It's not something I personally like in any story, and so the author absolutely has to justify putting anything like that into there. And I gotta say, it's hard to figure out where the mark's at.
Knowing what comes afterwards in the manga, with what we continue to learn about Robin, what Kiruko goes through and how she deals with this trauma, and how Maru steps up even more afterwards, I'll still argue that this scene works. I say that because all that awfulness gets payoff and explanations as the story unfolds and you come to appreciate even more how Maru and Kiruko support one another, paving the way for a healthy romantic relationship to possible form between them. It's not the prettiest, but it works. The mangaka managed it, though the debate will rightfully rage on on whether scenes like these should be done and, if so, how.
The anime actually dulled it somewhat in my opinion. The problem is that the season ends on this note without following up with the next arc. As a result, it feels way too raw and unresolved with Kiruko and Maru just packing up and leaving for the next leg of their journey. The adapting staff really blundered with that... As a result, the scene can easily come across as merely there for the shock factor.
If the show gets a second season, we might see this better handled.
Just finished it and I’m really hoping there’s a season 2 in the making
There is infact a season 2 in the works, one of the producers came out and said that season 2 will be coming
@@LordofCinder-y1cwhen?
Bro really said “DONT KILL MY R#P15T”
At what moment does Kiruko have her period ? I don't remember having seen that.
Excellent question! In the anime, it SHOULD have happened right at the end of episode 8. In the manga, right at the end of the Immortalities Arc, Maru and Kiruko find the now deposed leader of the protesters. her and few followers who decided to not go on a rampage are taking care of them before they leave to continue their journey for Heaven and Kiruko can't move for a day because of her internal pains. The woman determines she's on her period and Kiruko freaks out and says she hasn't experienced anything like that for five years.
I don't know why the anime cut this scene, but it could have been to make Haruki's transition far more subtle in order to make his mental trauma and transformation into Kiruko far more stark after the encounter with Robin.
@@camillesharem thanks for the answer !
@@quentinmyself You're welcome! :)
@@camillesharemwhat I wanna know is if Robin nutted balls deep inside and got her pregnant
After the immortal order, It got cut for space though.
I think the "grape" scene was fine, I don't think in fiction anything should be off limits, although I'm no fan of misery pron, but in this case it serves to truly flesh out and portray Robin's twisted nature and it wouldn't be the same if it was merely hinted that it happen. Also, to tackle some difficult subjects about the human condition, I think sometimes is necessary to dabble into really horrible stuff. I think people these days live extremely sheltered lives, where everything needs to be pc and sugar-coated, but that's not how the world is, there are many horrible aspects of the world and humanity and turning a blind eye to that reality isn't helpful.
That been said, my qualms with the season finale was that the fact that Maru didn't killed Robin, to me, felt a little bit contrived if not baffling. Also, I think that Kiruko's reaction to the whole situation was a bit jarring, after experiencing such a traumatic event, I think her behavior didn't reflect the weight of her trauma, I expected to see her in a complete state of shock and mentally broken, after what she experienced, and I know not all people react the same way to trauma, but she looked more sad and disappointed than anything else, don't know if it’s portrayed better in the manga, but putting that aside it has been a great series.
Finally, I don't think that deeming s*xual abuse as despicable and wrong has anything to do with politics, the difference between thinking that it’s horrible or finding it pleasant, is the difference between been a human being with the capacity for empathy or being a full-blown sociopath, although I’m sure that most people suggesting that Kiruko liked it, are just trying to be edgy.
To your first point, I agree. People, especially in western cultures live sheltered live. Whether that be sheltered from violence, from ideas, from sexuality, etc. And some stories can communicate those themes and messages very well! But the argument is that those who do write that stuff should be cognizant of what they're doing. After reading George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, he was just looking to shock and in the end he's writing entire porno chapters to recapture the "magic" of previous shocking scenes from book 1, none of which add anything to the narrative or the characters, or enhance the dangers and depravity of the world. Jamie and Ned's alley brawl outside of the brothel did far more that!
To your second point, I definitely recommend reading the manga. Maru is a beast, a super soldier that the scientists wanted to have, but he still retains a sense of innocence up until this point. It's kinda teased that Kiruko didn't want Maru to sully himself killing Maru. She also thinks that being with a rapped individual is going to taint him and destroy him, so she tries to find excuses to make him ditch her later on. Furthermore, despite Kiruko's abrasive nature, she does her best to avoid killing other humans. Combine that with Robin once being her hero and friend, that's why she stops Maru from killing him.
The whole moment is meant to be enraging. You're meant to hate Robin. You're meant to question how you would react. And in the subsequent arcs, you're seeking to come to terms with Kiruko's decision and find understanding. Heavenly Delusion is a story that doesn't spoon feed you answers. It presents problems and character reactions and solutions that you're supposed to consider. And that's one of the reasons why this engaging story won me over so quickly.
Kiruko just experience a traumatic event from a respected individual that is like a father figure to them so it is difficult to understand and combine with the gender dysphoria from living in a body that is not their ,they might not have the times to processed it fully . The rage is us as an observer projected to them in that situation .
Tbh f*ck robin , kill that fucker , i hoped Kiruko maim that rap pist in later chap
Do not bloody assume everyone is needy and want PC crap dude. I have seen plenty of F up shit in media and I can tell you right now, it has made me more aware of the world we live in. It is why I try to avoid anything from Disney because it is nothing but watered down, sugar coated shit. The only things from Disney I am willing to touch are the 90s cartoons. 90s didn't F around.
I maybe in a small majority but I am not fucking needy.
I agree 100% with you. One thing that really bothers me more than it should is that she still wears his jacket after everything that happened.
@@luizfelipebocolibuenodasil2859 I understand where you're coming from. My best explanation for that is because the manga explains how Japan's temperature drops drastically with sundown. But it might be something the story explores further down the road.
It's interesting that you describe the first sin in the garden of Eden (eating the forbidden fruit) as potentially being about sex because I've been in church my whole life and have never heard it described this way. What I've come to understand is that the sin was eating not just the fruit but from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve by eating the fruit were trying to be like God (all knowing) and by eating the fruit were saying that they didn't need God. This was the first sin, one could most closely be described as the sin of pride.
I feel that this interpretation still makes sense with the two main villains of this story, the director who was trying to be greater than God and live eternally in her own Heaven, and with Robin for whatever he was trying to create there.
Also, sex isn't a bad thing in Christianity, it's a beautiful thing designed for loving relationships. But when it's taken out of that context is when it can be harmful and dangerous.
Loved your video analysing this anime!! I just watched it and needed to see someone discuss it because it really took me on a whirlwind of emotions!
Yeah... That ending is a real doozy! And I needed to make this video if even just for myself because reading that part in the manga was a gut punch! And all of the commentary online was about whether or not Kiruko liked it...
WHAT THE HECK!?
The symbolism of or literal nature of the fruit has encouraged fascinating discussions. In my studies of religion, I have come across all kinds of interpretations for what the fruit might be. I went with the sex interpretation for this analysis because it fits the story and what is happening with the kids in both timelines.
Though personally, I'd agree with you that the fruit represented knowledge and they were getting it contrary to God's commands. Not that knowledge, or sex, or most good things in life are evil, but that it was done in a way contrary to God's commands, hence Adam and Eve's transgression.
And with that, the Pandora's Box of religious discussion has been opened! Haha!
Robin is trying to be something he will never be. He already breached Kiruko's privacy and forced himself on her and that's not funny that he can do these things and doesn't realize his own lack of responsibility.
@@leon4000 And given the manga's current arc, we are likely to learn more about his depravity and where it all began for him. While I despise Robin, I am glad that we are going to get more of his backstory, which undoubtedly is setting up a final confrontation between Robin, Kiruko, and Maru.
I remember when i watch this, i was idk how. To say.....very sick, i was really furius that robin doesnt die by maru, i rlly hope in manga he get it. Idk now in actually how is the history going on because i waiting the s2 pretty sure next year. I really hope that maru could be a big influence to kiriko now and idk if they are in a relationship or in way to be one but i think both need to healing.
They certainly do need healing. I am glad that in the manga at least the consequences of Robin's assault are taken very seriously. Kiruko does get some moments to heal, and there's a big face-off, a second round gearing up between Maru and Robin. We'll see how that goes down. Season 2 is going to have a lot of insanity to cover, that's for sure!
SA happens. OFTEN! When it comes to storytelling, it does need to serve a purpose and that purpose doesn't need to be big, amazing or deeply philosophical, but it does need to be true to life. You shouldn't make it sexy or entertaining in a ponographic way. Especially when the story itself has a very serious setting. And we will need to be mindful about the actual genuine ways that survivors respond to these experiences, along with the people who unfortunately witness it. Who also become traumatized
My main concern right now, as someone who can't seem to find the manga anywhere to read, is that the river bank scene immediately after is the only time we get acknowledgment from the author that this happened. Haruki/Kiriko (just gonna call her sis) breaking down about not being the person that should need protection is a good and very real start to a larger conversation maru and her should have about what happened. I understand that everyone reacts differently to something like this, so I'd be fine if the first couple episodes after this in the next season are just them acting normal, maybe maru trying to treat sis like he did before. And maybe compared to a couple episodes prior, where she literally hallucinated herself getting eaten alive, she already feels as though she's been through worse. Idk, I just need a scene outside of the riverbank one that talks about how the SA affected sis. I've read some discussion posts and I'm really worried the author just shoehorned the grape scene in to make the audience feel bad for sis, and to give maru his big moment to come save her and beat up Robin. The fact that after the riverbank scene, they just hop in the van and she quite literally says "Welp, no point in being depressed forever." is strongly suggesting the author just wants us to move past what happened like it was nothing, and that's going to drive me insane if that's the case because it would just feel out of character. A kid whose mind is in his sister's body being graped by the man he considered an older brother should have some sort of lasting consequence on his psyche, idc if its an action anime.
Ok so I found somewhere I could read the manga and read the entirety of it up to the current chapter, that being chapter 59 I believe. Or somewhere close. There is some acknowledgment in chapter 39 on sis's end about how what robin did made her feel worthless, and how she can't let someone like Maru fall in love with someone like her. Sort of "Damaged goods" mentality, which is a very interesting approach. Outside of that chapter there's really only little things scattered among the remaining chapters up to current time, but most the chapters in the 40's and up are so story focused that it feels like there's hardly any time for natural character development, so gut instinct is we're due for some kind of emotion dump sometime soon, or maybe robin will poke his head up again.
Also Kiruko completely "forgets" about het goals and focuses on Maru only. As far as I remember there is no single panel where she asks about the doctor or shows his picture to anyone until chapter 52...
Just finished binging this show, I have never needed to see so badly a character getting theirs. I need to read the manga just because I need to fucking see Robin dead.
Unfortunately, you'll be waiting with the rest of us. Robin has yet to reappear. However, there are many long-term consequences to what happens at the end of the anime that I think people will enjoy. And chances are that Robin is going to face a very fitting end for all the messed up stuff he's done.
Time will tell weather she will get a baby, especially considering robin was using kiruko as a bucket.
It's a sad and frightening possibility. We'll probably know for certain once the current arc in the manga is done.
I kinda get where your coming from but there's one MAJOR issue for me especially when comparing it to Berserk. in Berserk all actions have major consequences for all character involved ESPECCIALY the eclipse and what happened to Casca. it shapes them all and redefines the plot. This happens in chapter 32-33 and we are now on chapter 58, and it is mentioned once Robin essentially despawns from the story entirely and maru and Kiruko just go back to normal. In fact you can just skip those chapters/episodes and the rest of the plot/characters stay the same. its nasty and feels like the other sneaking in a SA/NTR fetish
There is a therory that say that Robin and kiriko were having intimate relation before the kart incident
I absolutely agree with that theory and it would help provide an explanation for why Robin would execute Kiriko in the middle of saving her brother!... I'm glad that it looks like the newest arc will be exploring his backstory so we can figure out more about the guy and set up the inevitable rematch.
Robin saying Haruki is a deep sleeper in the memory he was able to visualize is already a massive hint to this being the fact
@@balloon3503 yep. I wonder if robin forced kiriko or not.
I agree with you about Martin. It's an exciting read while it lasts, but after a while, I feel nothing, I analyse nothing. I prefer stories like this, or Kokou no hito, or Vinland saga, or Haikyuu for that matter. Each have loads of little truths about life that taken together aren't that little at all. Over the years I've come to greatly appreciate stories that end on the positive note. If the character arc is done well and if action follows insights, then they're not only realistic, but also inspiring and illuminating. Thinking that "darker is better" or "more realistic" is just immature. In the end, it gives nothing to the audience. Once you realise that what you're seeing is not a thing in itself, but your interpretation of it, everything changes - and even though periods of darkness always come and go, you still know that there's something greater behind. Something beyond good and evil. Forgiving and letting go emerges from there - but you have to go through some things to realise it.
Excellent comment! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I think that we crave positive endings because they help us to contextualize all the crap the characters went through. It puts their lives and ours into perspective and helps us find lessons and messages that are ennobling and make us feel more confident in recommending these amazing stories. And it all taps into an important truth: that no matter no hard your life gets, it still matters, you matter, and at the end of the day there is more goodness and beauty in the world than we often care to admit.
That's one of the reasons why I was so happy to hear Kentaro Mura say he wanted to give Berserk a happy ending. He said the characters deserved it, and it gives meaning and redemption to Guts who struggles against everything and keeps coming back no matter how often he is defeated. It's just the dark fantasy version of Rocky's speech about getting back up.
@@camillesharem Yes. Beauty indeed is in the eyes of the beholder, and I greatly appreciate that I see it more and more in unexpected places - just like I appreciate every little thing that helps me see it where before I could not. I believe stories play a significant part in how we see the world, because we see through them, really. Even the smallest belief is only a story, and most of them we've heard from others and assimilated. Whether we like them or not, if we believe them to be true, they will act like a prism and distort everything we see to fit the story we keep repeating in our heads. That's all the more reason to look for, appreciate and create stories that challenge our beliefs, widen our worldview and open our horizons. Out into the world and into other humans, so we could understand the wonderful complexity of our own psyche.
Oh brother I do not agree with u and I'm sorry ur words are not close to being excellent to me
The reason being.. ending a character story by ending it Darker or evil and violent, I feel this is the right way that does showcase the reality of this life..
It makes u know that there are Good and evil and just because u are Good don't mean u will get something Good in return, and also it let's you know that if u get wronged by an enemy doesn't mean u will be will end Ur life with something Good by just simply existing.
This is the reality of life
U know that there is evil and Good
And know how to manipulate it and use it in your own way to win this war (Real life) cus I don't believe life is just a life , I see it as a constant survival.. and any wrong move could END YOU, its crazy.
And lastly the idea about your comment talking about ending life with being free and forgiven and moving on knowing how to live beyond the bounds of evil and hurts
This your idea is the Delusions almost every human on this Real life use to escape thier reality, it works and helps keep your sanity and that's Great But it doesn't stop BAD AND EVIL from coming to YOU directly ..
Happy ending is an Illusion and a Dark ending is the Logical Facts and only if u are understandable with how the life works u would understand to accept reality for what it is. U have to acknowledge that Good and Evil exists and YOU MUST SURVIVE
@@phyzyprogrammer5076 I'm just going to say that Dante Alghieri, who suffered more than most people in modern times have, would disagree. That's the whole point of the Divine Comedy. Life cannot just be about survival, it must have meaning. And you see that play out in the post-apocalyptic lives of the main characters and all the side characters in Heavenly Delusion. Even one of the arcs that has yet to be animated, where they help another rape victim get revenge, the manga makes it very clear that there's more to life than survival and darkness.
Good and evil do exist in the world, but to attempt to manipulate them is little more than playing the game, where if you don't have "power", you'll get crushed by the bigger players. And that's sadly how too many people are taught to see the world. I saw that too often with my students, who felt they had no hope and no chance after graduating. But the reality is very different from that. Life is about finding meaning, finding happiness, and dealing with your problems in a way that do the most good for yourself and others.
That's probably the most common consensus from ancient to modern philosophy, and from religions east to west. And that's why is resonates so much with humanity, these kinds of stories. And that is why we have to grapple with the weight of this season's ending and discuss it, not just dismiss it or take it at face value.
@camillesharem691 You do have a nice way of putting words together and sadly that's all it is. Just words being put together and will never ever stop the reality of being GOOD AND EVIL .
Even on your way finding happiness u can still end up being betrade even after knowing exactly what u are doing In life.
I will like to give u some examples bro..
I am in a relationship with a girl I actually love deeply But now she doesn't really care bout me but ad long as I can make her happy that's all that matters to her. And I have tried to make this work out Thousand of times with this same girl and she still has the same mentality of not just caring about other people's feelings as long as hers is ideal ... (Now this lead me to ask for love in the most unloving way and even begging for a little Attention in anyway I can and even the love is an embarrassing way of loving someone I still want it and that's fuxked up to me)
Now what I wanna bring out from this is that instead of me covering up the reality and moving on and trying to not see what the reality is.
I simply acknowledge that some people just can't be helped no matter what and if u happen to encounter those types of people when u are trying to move on from life then u would end up falling into it..
Now my own mentality to stop this Evil is I simply become lone and very closed person. I realise that not saying anything bout what hurts me makes me even more safer than telling someone to help me.. I Understand the reality and now I use it against them!
I don't just treat people harshly I have EMPATHY, so I know exactly how it feels to threat someone bad, so I am able to know exactly what to do and I am able to understand my situation better..
In fact I 💯 use LOGICAL thinking in real life. Its simply on survival and they only people safe from me are the people care about or hv EMPATHY for,
But if there was to be a war and I see 3 little children crying in a room while we are trying to escape from the enemy..I will simply only Attempt to Try to calm them then if they can't be calmed I won't DIE just because of them .. I'm gonna throw them out and they gon meet their faith!
This is reality bro.. trying to ignore it and pretend it's all happiness simply makes u become WEAK and sadly Good people gets the most hurt and pains while Bad people gets the most happiness.. so why not see this life for what it really is and know exactly how to survive, I only Got this one life, I simply don't know if there is an after life and I don't intend on wasting my once life chance on being Kind and moving on to happiness while suffering!
And one more thing I hard to learn the hard way is that Pain doesn't dissappear, YOU just learn how to live with it because there's memories to remember all this (so u simply learn live life with u pain but u will be in controll of your mind to controll the pain)
You're coming from a very western perspective.
Not really wrong perse, but missing some nuance.
Makyō for instance is a Buddhist concepts referring to the kind of delusions one might experience during meditation that try to keep you away from enlightment.
Literally it means something like world of demons.
Thanks for the added perspective. That does help shape the nuance and understanding of what is going on here and further emphasizes how human the many arcs and stories within Heavenly Delusion are.
lol i need a robin deep dive because its not clicking how he unalived the children.
The truth of the matter is that we don't really know. Even in the manga, we can only guess why he killed Kiriko and left Haruki to die. He's told a number of lies, so we can't really trust the story he told to Kriuko. So, my best guess would be that he had plans for something within the city or to leave it and wanted Kiriko to leave her brother and join him. She refused and he killer her to make sure that she couldn't interfere or call what few authorities there were to stop him. Haruki's death by Man Eater was just a pleasant bonus because he didn't like the kid. And that probably came from a combination of jealousy and just being annoyed with this upstart, young punk who's always following him around and even has the audacity to try and upstage Robin. And I think that's probably the mindset Robin had when he tried to kill them.
Interestingly, while reading the manga it occurred to me that I don't need to know - and neither does Kiruko. In life, we don't always know the reasons people do things they do. Sometimes they hurt is and we never find out why. We don't always get the closure we crave. I've learned to let go anyway, and I've come to believe that's more empowering than knowing the exact reasons: to fore-give - give in advance, without knowing, or rather, knowing that there is a reason even if I'll never know it myself. It's not something that soothes the ego, but it allows a feeling of freedom like nothing else. It actually sets you free. It would be interesting if the author chose to depict something like that for Kiruko.
I’m rewatching this anime with my wife who’s never seen it because I missed out on a lot of stuff cause I initially found the scenes from the nursery boring and didn’t pay attention too well.
My first time watching that scene really disturbed me for several days. I had it spoiled for me and it still hit extremely hard.
I will say, I know the whole trans aspect is kind of a point of contention for some people, but I do read into Kiruko as a trans woman based off her shedding Haruki as an identity at the end of Season 1 and several other scenes both in the manga and the anime.
Yeah, the nursery plotline doesn't get very interesting until later. A lot of it is about foreshadowing the horrible things to come.
You picked up on the right clues about Kiruko. This horrible incident with Robin really transforms her way of thinking about herself. And it is something that continues throughout the manga. Both identities of Haruki and Kiriko are melting away and becoming another person entirely. And I think that despite the first season's ending, the story on the whole handles her transition very well. At least in the manga.
I honestly look back at kiriko’s interactions with the doctor as a bit strange. Like she’s TOO clingy with this guy. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were involved sexually. Robin however is a bit strange. But I wouldn’t put it passed her being involved with robin the same way. And he’s just enough of an asshole to force haruki to watch.
The manga is clear that Kiriko was not involved with the doctor. Haruki was very interested in the Doctor because Robin was. And for Kiruko, she's interested in the Doctor because he holds the answers to what happened with the siblings and why she ended up the way she did. And those answers were just given the most recent arc! Woohoo!
The manga is clear that Kiriko was not involved with the doctor. Haruki was very interested in the Doctor because Robin was. And for Kiruko, she's interested in the Doctor because he holds the answers to what happened with the siblings and why she ended up the way she did. And those answers were just given the most recent arc! Woohoo!
seeing maru beat the shit out of that mf was so satisfying 😌
I have a theory that the doctor had switched bodies with robin cause people believed that the doctor was doing experiments with humans and monsterers and robin was one of the people who disappeared.
That's an interesting theory. I will give you a spoiler: the doctor didn't switch bodies with Robin. You will find out though, the doctor is no stranger to switching bodies and brains. And that exact reveal is a really cool one and has heavy implications for Maru of all people.
Huh I had the same theory. Mainly because Robin never seemed to have any scientific inclinations before. And now he’s restoring agriculture plants and conducting human experiment actions? Seemed not consistent with at least haruki’s flashbacks if you can consider that accurate.
For Heavenly Delusion i felt the scene & could not read/watch it. It was tough to do so. That says that it was written with care & respect.
So did i feel when reading/watching banana fish.
For berserk however i felt it was overused and many times not necessary
Its sad that of all the animes i have watched over 400 at this point i can only remember 3 anime which actually adresses these themes & only 2 of them feels respectful & sincere.
Its even sadder when people say things like these scenes are not necessary its for the authors fetish etc. Like bro get out & watch what real world is. These thinga happen so often in real life.
Another thing i find a problem is the demographic - i think men fail to realize how common these things are so HD gets a backlash
But BF which is a shoujo doesn't cz girls are way more accustomed with these things and they understand.
Had this been published as a shojo/josei it wouldnt have had faced so much backladh
She got backstabbed. Ugh that sucks. (Technically “he”.)
I tune out whenever I hear the tired old ‘but the story doesn’t NEED scenes like this, you don’t want to glorify [insert bad thing] less is more!”
Like no, shut up. This is actually terrible and stifling advice for fledgling creators. Some of the best and most raw media exists because the creators didn’t give a damn. Do you think Swery gives a damn when he writes for No More Heroes? It’s make believe. The artist should feel free to be as indulgent as they want. It’s not the artist’s responsibility to care about whether or not people find the work uncomfortable or who gets off on what. Art exists to get a response.
In the end, it’s all fiction. If the artist wants to depict a problematic situation and stylise it in a way that makes it seem titillating or gratituous, then that is what they should do. There’s a certain art form to making spicy edgy schlock and I’m sick of people trying to act like it isn’t entertaining.
U...like watching people get SAd? You enjoy that? Weirdo behavior
It wasnt religious till u mentioned it
We're can I get the manga
can someone help me understand, EVEN IF HER SISTER WAS! INSIDE HER!! why would robin prove it or solidify it by raping her??? if he was trying to convince her that her sister was merged with her couldnt he have just explained it to her???
Robin did it to torture Haruki. It's all but confirmed that he murdered Kiriko when she was trying to save her brother, whom Robin actively hated. The manga drops more than enough hints that this was the case. With both of them back, Robin showed his true colors, having a second chance with Kriko's body and relishing a chance to hurt Haruki. The guy is straight up monster who raped Kiruko because he wanted to hurt her. His talk about an experiment was nothing but the thinnest veneer for an excuse.
The manga just dropped the start to another arc, that looks like we'll dive once again into Robin's story and it appears that Maru and Robin will finally have their rematch. At least, that is what is being set up right now. That means we'll likely get some kind of awful explanation for WHY Robin is the monster that he is.
@@camillesharem thank you so much i was so confused and bothered by this. what a monster. i hate that Kiruko still didnt want any harm to come to him when Maru couldve killed him. was it beacuse she loved him as family or romantically?
@@Ninpoon214 To my understanding when reading through the manga, Kiruko was going through a lot. She felt so betrayed by someone she had deeply cared about and respected and had no idea what to do with him. She didn't even think she would be saved. After the fight, Kiruko tries to make sense of what happened saying that she had Maru spare Robin because she didn't want him to be a murderer, but her thought process shows that she's suffering under guilt, thinking she is responsible for what happened to her. In that respect, she acts like many, many unfortunate victims of sexual assault.
I am happy to say that as the story goes on, Kiruko does start moving on, and Maru is a very healing influence on her. That will all be presumably be put to the test in this upcoming arc, so... Check back in six months and hopefully we'll have more answers! And hopefully Maru puts Robin six feet under, because that bastard does deserve it. And not just for the rape, but also for his murders and experiments on other people.
@camillesharem what is happening in manga right now?
I have a theory I don't think Kiriko is actually Haraki I think Haraki is dead and Kiriko was so traumatised she adopted Haraki's personality
Interesting theory. So you think Kiriko's brain stem took over Haruki's brain when the doctor put it in? And she's only now rediscovering herself?
How would she know what Haraki was planning before his death?
14:02
if robin was having sex with kiruko for 3 days straight then there is a high chance that she might be pregnant. Ohohohoho.... that will be the worst possible NTR outcome.... Maru had to raise someone else baby like a cuck.... andrew tate talked about this.
That possibility has been a ticking time bomb in the manga. We'll probably get an answer shortly after the current arc has wrapped up, if Kiruko is pregnant or not.
EDIT: The newest chapter of Heavenly Delusion was just released. Kiruko's back on that time of month. Looks like Maru won't get the worst NTR route at the moment.
New hated character unlocked
Can't wait for Robin's comeuppance.
@@camillesharem hope kiriko won’t be there to stop Maru this time
he was good before timeskip though, what made him change
@@yamete_kudasai6969 He wasn't good before the time skip. Robin was always up to something shady. You don't murder the girl you're in relationship with unless you're messed up! We don't know everything about Robin at the moment, and in the manga he is currently out in the wind, so we aren't likely to have any answers until he shows up again in the manga. And the story is building up to that!
@@yamete_kudasai6969 it was all an act
Is this as bad as Berserker or Goblin slayer? No 😑
The manga was worse bro
**SPOILER ALERT**
I haven't thought about this show since watching the end of the first season with a friend, for good reason. I enjoyed most of season 1, until the final two episodes. The scenes which depicted sexual assault were treated with very little tact or respect, when it is actually one of the most traumatizing things a person can live through in reality, and the characters involved just shrug it off and go about their business within minutes. The boy-in-a-girl's-body character was just so unnatural after the event, it was like asking a blind person to describe the difference between periwinkle and lavender. They end the season with "all's well that ends well" with our main characters back on their mission as if nothing happened. It just didn't sit right with me, it makes me think the writers have never met anyone in their life who was affected by sexual assault, so they have no respectful frame of reference to write from. I'm not interested in seeing anything else from this show or any of it's writers if they want to use rape as a minor plot device and nothing more. All of the creative nuance, likeable characters, refreshingly different style of post-apocalyptic setting, natural humor, etc. was all flushed down a toilet at the end, and I will proceed to shrug off this series and it's creators as easily as they think people can shrug off kidnapping and rape.
I can understand your response to the final episodes. I can assure you that the story does not treat this moment lightly moving forward. Kiruko is going to struggle with a lot, Maru as well. It takes many more adventures before Kiruko comes to terms with what is happening to her and can start moving on. Having read the manga, I believe it handles the serious subject matter very well. The anime's pacing has largely removed some of the more subtle, nuanced moments that help contextualize what is going on.
Now, if you don't want to continue with the story, I will be the last person to pressure you into doing so. This is a very divisive moment in the story, which is why I felt it was necessary to make this video and help explain things. From there, everyone should make their own choice to continue with it or drop it. But I will reiterate that this experience puts Kiruko and Maru on a path of personal growth that is shockingly healing and cathartic.
It's not like people put up internal barriers or completely lock away the memories of the event as a coping mechanism. You know, put on a mask of nothing bad happened, Iam still ok type of stuff.
@@aaronabbey2604 Agreed, that is indeed one of many coping mechanisms for survivors of sexual assault. However, there was no internal monologue, no cut-away scenes, no flashback, or any audio/visual technique that the writers/director could have offered to the audience that would show some kind of tact or any attention to the severity of the trauma that just occurred over the course of days. I understand if anyone wants to continue enjoying this series, by all means please do so, but I won't defend it's cavalier approach to depicting rape survival.
@@camillesharem I appreciate the respectful reply, thank you kindly. I suppose this may be a case where, as many fans of different media have popularized, "The book/manga was better" but, hopefully the future episodes will offer a little more attention to such sensitive subject matter. It is reassuring that at least it puts them in the direction of healing and growth in one iteration of the story.
@@AnoNymous-gn6tl You're welcome./ I also hope that the second season spends the necessary time to show how the events of the finale affect Kiruko and Maru and helps the audience to realize how they get onto the path of growth and healing.
It's just horrible setting. If you pay attention to manga or anime. You can see there were two set of utensils, shower room, towel, and the handcuff was changed to loose rope. The passenger said 3 days and she moaned in a enjoyable way which means they do it, eating, do it, shower, eating, keep doing it, sleep, wake up, talk, then do it again in this order for 3 days! Even worse, when he trying to kill robin. She just couple bites and easily lossed rope and escaped. Even though if the writter was trying to make a betrayle or men mind transition to women mind. It is a disgusting and unbelievable setting. I thought hentai girls are dumb enough but she is just in another level.
Kiruko gnawing her way out is a little much, but I am always flabbergasted that everyone takes the guard at his word that she was enjoying what Robin was doing to her. Everything that we can see and hear refutes that claim. And as others have pointed out here in the comments, victims of abuse find themselves in very awful and confusing circumstances. I'll speak personally and say that many abuse victims in my circles for a wide variety of deep, personal, and often strange reasons, could not easily escape their awful situations. A scene like this should generate those kinds of discussions and observations.
But again, gnawing her way out super quick was a little weird. It still highlights how messed up the whole affair is.
@@camillesharemwe have to take into account the psyche Kiruko is in.
He still believes he is Kiruko, and repeatedly, Robin convinces him that who's getting graped is Haruki.
He's barely fighting back because he was not the one being assaulted, and part of him felt like he's the one making "love" to her sister because that's what he sees and felt at the same time thru the mirror.
Robin really effed him physically and mentally (not that grape doesn't do that, its just that Robin did it in multiple layers)
At the end of the day, it was disgusting enough to convey the message. But not a barbaric excuse for a grape scene.
I wish someone had warned me about the rape scene. I wouldn't have watched the show if I had known it was going to happen.
I understand that sentiment. I honestly blame the lack of warning for the Western side of the audience on Disney, because they mishandled its distribution, which would have included warnings. Because, otherwise, you'd have needed to read the manga to know what was coming up.
Just like how Goblin Slayer warns viewers what they're about to see, Heavenly Delusion would have gotten the same. But Disney buried the series, which meant it had none of the warnings you'd expect for a series with that kind of content.
This just sucks..
Disturbing to infinity.
Idk what sick type person author must be. Manga is more harsh, is it neccesary to sexualise everything in worst way possible?
Imagine u made a character then u humiliate it in all ways..seems sick.
This is just a fetish nothing else..as mch as i love anime..there shd b a boundary...see mushoku tensei rent-a-gf ...thy leave no one n nothing.
I wish if there ws an end to human flith
God...what a Robert Jordan fanboy. Considering he milked the series and died before he could finish it just like George RR will do as well. His writing was okay...he wasn't Jesus like you make him sound. I think Tad Williams and others are far more gifted but each to their own. Just rate the series and stop bringing in other books or authors into Anime....makes the argument weak and useless.
No is forcing you to watch it. There is no need 2 be a disrespectful piece of @£^^! The man is just sharing his opinions and thoughts on something he likes. No need to be a #£%^ about it!
As good as the world building goes I really hate how stupid that kid is (im talking about kuriko younger brother). First he fought a man eater alone causing her sister to die, then he let some punk use her dead sisters body. Idk whats the deal with him.
Haruki is a kid who did cause some problems and definitely did not deal with the consequences of his man Eater hunt in any positive way. I will say that the manga does a fantastic job of developing Kiruko's character, which in turn elevates and redeems Haruki of the lot of the nonsense he purposefully and inadvertently caused.
Jc don't justify rape. Most Japanese manga artist/writers that have implied or show things like this have themselves been caught in sexual assault crime or scandal. It's really not needed to push a theme or enforce an idea.
Lol what crack are you on
Haruki enjoys it
Are you people for real, so easy triggered by a light scene! Indeed was unpleasant but it was light and more on a sugestive path not descriptive one even so as it need it to be realistic as to advance the story and make it count for later developments.
i don't know why you need to make excuses for a half hour. If you live under a glass bell you will have some big trauma later in life, so just break it!
For me the problem with the scene is how the camera treats it as fanserivce, focusing on harukis body, the deeply ingraind transphobic undertones and how badly it treats gender in general. Its ok to have bad sexual things to happen to the characters, that doesnt mean showing it explicitly and even providing fanservice off the situation. It could have been (the act) needed for plot reasona but it definetly wasnt depicted in a respectful way at all.
I don't think there is a respectful way to depict rape other than cut to black, signaling to the audience what has transpired. Our imaginations automatically do the rest.
The anime doesn't even hold a candle to what the manga shows. And I've read a lot of fan service garbage, I would argue this isn't it. There is no glorification, no pointless jiggle physics, and the scene wraps up way faster than it did in the manga. The story wants to impress upon the audience how vile Robin and his actions are. It's manipulative and unnatural. Now, is showing that a good thing?
That is the big question, and as you'll see throughout these comments, there are loads of differing opinions and discussions, and I find that healthy and informative for any writers who has the guts to tackle a subject and material like this.
U just created an illusion to escape the reality of what life is.
The way it was shown is the way it happen in real life and u either survive or become a victim and sadly EVIL DONT CARE
dude I watched this video and couldnt understand a single fucking word you said bro
Skill issue
@@scoshrimp1671 damn Ig he’s right