Ump says Mancini attempted to go to 2nd and calls him out, a breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- #JMBaseball #ejection
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Are you doing a video with the cardinals bench clearing today?
yeah but its gonna take a little to put together. lot going on
@@JomboyMedia love the breakdowns, keep doing what your doing
Thanks dad I love you
do twins/ tigers ending last night, a breakdown
ruclips.net/video/Yv-cs3xqGJI/видео.html
i added the clip on mlb
The overlapping voiceovers for the lip reading are noticed AND appreciated. Well done Jimmy
that shit had me dead I loved it
In order to appreciate something, it must be noticed.
Came to the comments for this exactly, good job jimmy 👍
@@tjls123 Okay, smartass. If you wanna get technical that’s why he mentioned “noticed” first lmao. You can notice something and not appreciate it, hence his addition of “appreciated” in his compliment.
This one's the Glengarry Glen Ross of Jomboy lipreads 😂 full dialogue
Jomboy is so famous that the MLB TV camera crews do these close ups of the arguments so Jomboy can read their lips and make these excellent videos!
@THIS No one is clicking that
@@krispyasfk2567 I did.... but not on purpose.
@@krispyasfk2567 i did like an idiot and immediately reported it for the stupid trick... plus i feel like and idiot... so yeah, theres that part of my life i wont get back
@@jamesporter. Now I must click it, so I can know what you have experienced!
SMH, all you guys who clicked it probably just lost all your credit card and personal info lol.
I'll be honest, at first I didn't even notice that he had overlapped the voiceovers in the argument. It seemed so natural, my brain just assumed that Jomboy was talented enough to speak two sentences at the same time.
I just realized the same thing
This would have gone completely unnoticed by me if I hadn't read your comment. I had to go back and rewatch it.
Lol same 🤣
I hope he makes this a more regular thing
everybody's voice in the MLB sounds like jomboy as far as I know
“What even is going to second base?” is the most stoned baseball thought ever.
Dude, I know, man. Like, what is "going" anyway, man???
Some day I hope to get to 2nd base.
In Little League I was always told if you turn your body towards second then it's considered an attempt to go to second. Umps made this call a few times against people I played with or against. I was never stupid enough to turn the wrong way .
@@BWcapture you get taught that in little league for a reason it's to simplify it they aren't going to explain the full rule but if you turn right your almost always good
Bruh...
Jomboy actually talking over himself in a lip reading argument with himself. Priceless.
This was quite impressive.
He recorded himself at least twice, then mixed the recordings together, possibly moving the audio clips around. It's not super hard with good editing software, but it can take a few tries to get it right. The end result, as The Elevator said, is priceless.
The fan who caught the ball without moving set the bar too high for the rest of this breakdown.
not really, the stadium was almost empty that day ATTN was 4,429.
@@Sharpshooter649 Welcome to Oakland!!! 510
More like the ball caught him
@@Sharpshooter649 sounds like hatin
unfortunately thats a HOF level foul ball catch
Jomboy arguing and talking over himself is peak breakdown material
Yeah, we need more of this from Jomboy. That's exactly what I saw BUT couldn't here during the broadcast. This review is on point
Yeah recording 2 tracks and playing over over each other is a nice touch
Jomboy flexing his elite status.
In two different vocal tones at that.
Absolutely. More of this please.
The part that was missed was the good hustle by the catcher. He probably saw the ump watching the runner closely so he knew the play was still live in the umps eyes.
Murphy is a stud 100%
Mancini should of hustled back to first in that situation...get back on the base to not allow umps to make a bad call.
very good move by him. even if he was called safe that's a heads up play
@@ToxicAvengerCleanYourMind I was taught growing up to always turn to the right shoulder for this situation alone 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I disagree. Hustle would imply urgency on returning because he did need to return to the bag. Any lack of hustle returning to first should be treated as deliberate overrunning, mostly, like the runner being "able to choose his path". If the umpire is going to gauge the runner's intent, he could do a better job of actually evaluating intent. The ump is instead ruling on what the fielders see as intent (sorta), which is NOT the rule.
"What is it that makes it 'I'm going to second base?' " is one of the essential philosophical questions of our time.
They should make it so that the ump has to signal that an intent was made so that the runner knows he has to get back. So many of these bad calls are just because the runner is taking their time getting back to first not knowing the ump has the idea that they had an intention to go to second base.
@@samtremblaybelzile The base coach seemed to know, which was why he was pointing to the base. The "flinch" has always been called, so I'm not sure why anyone is confused at the ruling. Why aren't more people asking why Mancini didn't just hustle back to first, according to his base coach's instructions?
@@tomtatum2662 In this case, that's a valid question. I remember one of these calls last year or the year before with Puig, and it was even worse than this one. Having an ump signal would remove all the uncertainty.
Those of us having difficulty getting to 'first base' ~ if you know what I mean ~ are extra curious 😅
@@tomtatum2662 I think a base coach is going to say get on the base no matter what. That argument in this scenario is a non-starter, IMHO.
The fact that Jomboy just seamlessly had a full conversation with two people that AREN'T him is hilarious 😂😂😂
The fact that people keep pointing this out like 20 people haven't already done so is annoying.
@@juliebraden6911 the fact that you wasted your time commenting that is pretty comical. You must be fun at parties. It's because it's FUNNY and it's the highlight of the video
I didn’t even notice it, that’s how good it was! Nice work.
That editing software is getting so good that soon it won't even need Jomboy.
I want to acknowledge Jomboy for lipsyncing the ump and the coach separately and then overlaying them. It made it sound like an actual conversation when they are talking over each other. That is dedication.
He did it for like 2 seconds in a video earlier this week, I'm pretty sure it was a test run but no one noticed or liked my comment pointing it out :
@@mellowords :(
when rules leave it up to interpretation, you get crap like this. we all played little league, we all had the "if you turn towards second, you're gonna have a bad time" rule. the MLB ought to have the same for simplicity sake.
That's a good point. And if you turn around towards the dugout and then decide to take off running, it would be easy to say once you cross the foul line or touch the bag, you're fair game.
Or despite the rules, he could have done what we've done since little league and turned in the proper direction.
@@kevinmach730 maybe because they're not playing in little league, mush mouth lol. you really think what you learned as a pee wee applies to professional sports? get over yourself.
Coaches in HS and college drilled into my head: unless you are 100% that you are going to go to second, always turn right after crossing the bag.
Same. I was taught starting in little league that if you're definitely not turning for second, to curve slightly right the second you touch the bag and turn around to your right so there's no question and you can't get a call just like this from some ump trying too hard to judge your intentions.
My coaches in high school and college focused on fundamentals all day every day. But we never worried about turning in or turning out. You have to know if the situation calls for a turn or threw the bag. It was never an issue. It’s just bad officiating. They are the worst at this level.
@@jonahmosher3314 well yeah if you hit it out of the infield turn and find the ball on the infield you run through the bag and turn to the right shoulder
Same... we had drills for this in little league. Always turn right. Hard to believe mlb players wouldn't know this.
Exactly
No turning around to go back to base. You must stop all forward momentum and return to base by walking backwards. I suggest the Moonwalk because you can return to base safely and it's stylish.
Ily
I was fully expecting all players to do it for that ump, lol.
@@motodog242 same lol that way no one can say you are turning to go to second, just moonwalk back to first and turn around while on the base lol
They have to do their very best impression of Mary Catherine Gallagher
Remember in little league when our coaches all told us to turn right? Yea, this is like a 14yr old ump who remembers that rule too.
My thoughts exactly
You guys are trying too hard out there. NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE
Got an out just like this because the kid turned the wrong way, surprised not many know/remember this rule
I never hit the ball so…
@@calgarywild3788 People forget that we umps are ALWAYS LOOKING for outs. Dumb mistakes players usually make give us the easy ones.
I was always taught growing up that you always turn right to avoid the initial go ahead to 2nd
This "intention" thing is way too vague. Since you're supposed to be running in that lane outside the baseline anyway, they should just rewrite the rule to say that if you come inside the baseline after passing first, that counts as "heading towards 2nd". If you stay outside the baseline, you're safe.
He did come inside the 1st base line. It did look like for 1 second be thought about it and then he walked inside of it.
The jump turn was onto the field of play. If he stayed over the foul line he'd have been fine
As the base itself is inside the FOUL line lol. There is no marked baseline. And you're not supposed to be running any specific spot. Inside the foul line, outside the foul line, don't matter.
Reminds me of the question "Did he make a football move?"
@@FreemanVashier except that's not how the rule is written. The foul line has nothing to do with this call and if the ump is using that thought process he just needs to be fired because he can't comprehend the rule book.
It's a ticky-tack rule, but the first thing I remember learning in Little League is to turn to the right to go back to 1st base. If I turned left, I was "live" and could be tagged. This is a good example of "rules" vs. "common sense." Mancini never had the intention of going to 2nd base. Also, brilliant 2-track voiceover at 3:37.
Exactly.
I was going to say the same thing. Always told to turn right, turn left and its live
you were taught that in Little League because you were 8 years old and it was simple that way, not because that's remotely how the rule actually works.
100%
I was taught you even had to walk back in foul ground or else you cloud be tagged as well
Love the fact that the guys that catch the baseballs barehanded without trying always have a kid with them! Awesome catch my man!
I don't know. I've seen too many videos of dads almost dropping their babies going for a foul ball. It's just a ball dude.
It’s the mythical dad-reflex
@@rjones6801 key word, almost! Lol doesn’t mean they did!
This is why you turn right when running through 1st base. I think much of the confusion was because he turned left towards second base. I was always taught his when I played baseball years ago. Just so there is no confusion. This is probably the big hang up here. Just my guess
Looks like the ump was using that philosophy to interject himself into the game. But it was still the wrong call.
When I was younger, I thought if you ran through 1st but turned left, you could still get tagged out. So i always turned right before walking back.
Apparently that’s not a rule, but I don’t see why it shouldn’t be.
That’s what I was told as well and I knew what was gonna happen in this breakdown as soon as he turned towards the field. Strange that something like that happened in a pro setting.
Every kid was taught this in Little League- you're allowed run past first base, but need to turn right to go back to it, in order to not be considered out if you were to be tagged. I am not sure how this guy could make it to this level and not have that ingrained in him. The only debate that comes into play is that it sounds like the MLB rule is a little more subjective in that it's related to "intention. It clearly looks like he had no intention to go for second base, and I don't think he showed that intention there. Also, don't swing at the 4th pitch when you're up 3-0 in the count. This guy needs some back to basics retraining.
that and hustle back if you even think you went the wrong way...he could have easily ran back and beat the tag, but no lazy ass decided to trot like that BS turn he made.
this is fascinating because its ultimately a "the spirit of the rule" kind of thing, I remember hearing in like T-ball to turn right instead of left for this exact reason but like its insane to thing that Mancini was making any intention of actually going to second.
Oh he definitely turned. Go watch his run-throughs. Always turns right. It's insane to believe he just happened to jump left on this play and that not count as a move to second. Easy call.
@@jaybingham3711 turning is not intent. Stay in the bleachers.
@@jaybingham3711 I agree with you. I can understand people not wanting the rule to be this way, but it is. Umpire makes a good call.
I was taught the same thing in little league.
@@SpicyTrifongo When the ball is not cleanly fielded and you do that as a runner, that's never not going to be called. Stay in the beer line. Maybe consider reading up on the rules while there to improve your understanding of the game.
There is a reason kids are taught to turn to the right when they reach first base. It’s to avoid situations like this where the ump can mistaken a turn back to the base as a move to second. It’s little things like this that can make a huge difference in a game.
The first base coach knew it too, cause he was pointing, like "Get back to 1st NOW". So the call is correct. Nobody likes this rule, but there has to be some standard for what constitutes an attempted advance to 2nd, or else more arguments will ensue. So they go with this one.
@@GatsbyCioffi No, the call was incorrect. That shit happens. BUT Mancini opened himself up to the bad call because he was a little sloppy and slow getting back to the bag.
@@MarcosElMalo2 back in grade school we knew to turn right… mans watches a ball get thrown bye and turns towards second. Literal definition of intent but deciding not to act upon. Silly to think otherwise, I don’t love this rule but it’s baseball. We didn’t make the rules.
Good point, but I would argue that if the rule is written in such a way as to introduce this ambiguity in simply turning around to return to first, then the rule is fubar.
@@GatsbyCioffi the call is not correct. It’s about intention.
The rule isn't even "intentionally going to second" the rule says, as part of rule 5.09b:
EXCEPTION: A batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base.
which makes the out call even more confusing since it looks like he immediately goes back. There's the little jump at the end but that's more like "okay, i got on base, good for me, i'm gonna jump"
To be fair to the ump, he did consider going to 2nd, then change his mind and return towards 1st. The coach pointing at the base made it clear that he knew he would be out in that situation if he didn't get back onto the base. If the rule says you have to immediately return to 1st, then the player needs to know not to make any move towards 2nd.
I used to be an umpire. How I interpreted the rule is that at some point, the batter has to "try" to go to 2nd base. Once they "try", they forfeit their right to return to 1st for free. Like if they take a quick jab-step then change their mind, they aren't protected anymore. To me, this play should not have been an out. All he did was look, and when he turned, it didn't seem like he turned towards 2nd to try to go there. It felt like he turned that way because he did a jump-turn and that was the most natural direction to rotate for the jump-turn.
No. That jump was more of a "Hey the ball got away maybe I can...no they got it. I'll just go back to the bag." There was nothing normal or immediate about his turn and return to the bag. He clearly had a moment of "maybe I can go to second". He'll when we were young we were taught to never even turn to the left. Always turn to the right so that there is no mistake an umpire can make.
The MLB interpretations manual states that this is an attempt to go to 2nd. It has always been an attempt. I umpired professional baseball for 7 years and collegiate baseball for 20. Umpires have been calling this same exact play an attempt to advance for at least 50 years and they are doing it because MLB tells them to call it that way. Every umpire that has been to professional umpire school was taught that this is an attempt to advance, every minor league umpire has been taught by their supervisors that this is an attempt to advance, and every MLB umpire rules it this way because that is the MLB rule interpretation. You don't even know what the word immediately means in the context of this rule. You're ridiculously stupid attempt to explain the rule and what happened is worse than the video. You should have your baseball privileges revoked.
@@ScottCleve33 You are clearly the mind reader than because his actual movements were right back toward first. You could be an ump yourself with those skills, yes Angel Hernandez Jr.
Right or wrong call, the 1st base coach was telling him to get on the base and he took his time. Had he moved AT ALL above a snail's pace, he woulda been safe.
All the umpire had to say back was, "Really? Why then was your first base coach telling you to hurry up and get back on the bag?"
This is the clincher for me. The first base coach thought Mancini turned. Instead of letting his player fume, he shoulda sat down next to him and explained what happened.
Idk if you play baseball but in 1st base you run through the base and you don’t need to run back to the bag because you don’t need to stay on the base
@@barebuttspankin If, after running through the base, you make a move toward second then you are a runner and can be tagged out.
@@Schneltor yes but you’d have to make a move toward second not turn around
Jomboy is gonna have a lot of content of us this year seeing the way pitchers are hitting the Mets
can’t wait for at least one HBP per game for us :D
The benches clearing earlier is gonna be a good breakdown especially when you see the bullpens emptying for their daily Baywatch trot
I just imagine every baseball player, coach, and ump to sound like Jomboy now
Yep
100%
The intention rule is so stupid, you could literally just say, “Well he turned to the left and not the right, so that means he was gonna go to second.”, the MLB needs to quit making vague rules that end up giving umps so much power, because most of the time the umps are just too stupid to make the right call
This is the right answer.
Exactly. He is also walking back to first, so how is he intending to go to 2nd? Bad call.
@@jchirschfeld1101 he turned to go to second but when he realized the ball was backed up by the catcher he tried to deceive the ump by walking back to first while his first base coach was telling him to get his ass back quick
When i played baseball and softball growning up we were told to always turn right and if u turned left you could get tagged out so i believe the runner is out
That is what I was thinking too. The players need to turn now to the right and walk back to show no intention of going. However I can see why they would want to turn left in the event that they CAN advance to second base. Either way for this call, there was clearly no intention to go to second base. It was a terrible call and it didn't help that the first base coach was pointing to the base.
In little league I was taught to always stay on the foul side of 1st, which is somehow why you're able to overrun that base and not get tagged out. So, it was always run past first and turn right when doing your loop back to the base. Going on the fair side made you eligible for a tag out regardless of intent.. and this guy's little hop took him fair before walking to the base.
At least that's my memory of what I was taught.
Same here, I’d you’re not going to second turn right. Call still seems like crap though
maybe because they're not playing in little league, mush mouth lol. you really think what you learned as a pee wee applies to professional sports? get over yourself.
Omg the back and forth overlap was amazing. These keep getting better still
Love the style on the foul ball catch.
most badass thing i’ve seen in a while
Baby on the knee who didn't even see it. Just wild.
Dude doesn't even seemed shocked by it, adding to it being extra smooth.
Yes you may applaud
I spent my youth heading back to first base by turning over my right shoulder... every single time, in dire fear of this exact outcome. After decades out of the game, I feel my paranoia has finally been validated. I can now finally rest easy. Thank you Robert Downey Jr. looking umpire.
Agreed, I don’t disagree with Jomboy here, but this is Little League 101. We were taught to always turn right to avoid this possibility since the umpires can do anything they want.
I'm not really a baseball fan, but I can watch your breakdowns all day.
Thanks for the content.
His breakdowns are why I CAN’T be a fan of the game. Too much ticky-tacky bullshit, unwritten rules and drama where there should be none.
Plus the coaches wear uniforms over their paunch-bellies. That pretty much sums it all up.
@@billygraham2132 sound like a girl crying. No one cares about your opinion
@@billygraham2132 But American football and basketball have ticky-tack calls too. Even more so. Plus you obviously didn't know baseball coaches were also players on the team back in the day. It's tradition. In Asia we joke the Americans don't have the IQ or attention span for baseball anymore.... I think it's true
I agree with you 1000%
Me too 😆
Jomboy lip reading and voice overs are the best and he ties in his sponsors flawlessly it doesn't distract from the video at all
I want to see the Cardinals and Mets brawl.
Was just about to comment this
You mean the group hug session? It was cuddle riffic.
@@tombstonejones9581 yeah a hockey game broke out ha
"brawl"
Mancini just survived cancer, came back last year, and finished runner-up in the derby. He is one of the nicest guys in the league it was unusual to see him go off like that.
I appreciate that he wanted to look at the replay first and then went off.
he argued a little bit, walked back to the dugout, watched the replay, then snapped. totally reasonable reaction. gave the ump the benefit of the doubt until he knew that anyone that would see it would know the call was bullshit.
Because it wasn’t even fucking close
Awesome comment! So good a bot stole it
@@pretzelhunt theirs was first. The bot above stole it
I've been taught since I was in little league to always turn to the right, never to the left because that opens it up to interpretation. I'm always astonished when Major Leaguers don't seem to know this too
I've been taught to ignore baseball because the umpires are egotistical pricks who ruin the game. That solves all my baseball problems.
I think something like ths happened to Ozzie Albies as well. He turned left instead of right and they tagged him out.
@@cmdrfunk People only want to see the bad calls from the bad umps for entertainment. There are plenty of good umps out there. It's a tough job.
maybe because they're not playing in little league, mush mouth lol. you really think what you learned as a pee wee applies to professional sports? get over yourself.
I remember in little league being taught to turn towards foul territory to avoid this exact situation.
"...to avoid this exact situation."
It's not the rule, but we're all taught this because a little league umpire can't be trusted to apply the rule correctly. MLB players shouldn't have to worry about this.
I was just thinking that. That was one thing I was always told/taught. If you’re trying to beat out a play at first, you always run through and turn to the foul side of the line. Simple, and avoids these situations 100% of the time.
Should Mancini be out for this? No. The ump was doing way too much.
He made a move toward 2nd base. Pretty easy call imo
Agree
@@thomasellis554 well apparently Mancini does, he turned to other side of baseline towards second just like Yelich did last year
I agree with the ump. What is even a "jump turn"? He was on the right side of the foul line and then he made a sudden movement in the direction of second base, landing on the left side of the foul line. It was only a single step, but nobody "jump turns" after running through the bag like the way he did. It was a good call
This runner was looking to the right to see the ball get away and then turned 270 degrees to his left to return to the bag. And even that would have been fine but with that quick step he made to the left is all it took for the umpire to get the impression that he made a move to second.
That's not bad, they literally teach you this exact thing in little league. Turn to your right, don't lunge/jump/jab step towards second. 100% correct call.
It’s bad and you should feel bad
When you go for a single always take your momentum to the right, the safe zone after touching the base. I learned that as a young boy. But tbh i really dont know about this one. It looks like he jumped to stop his momentum and got back to base, but in another shot it looks like ge is glancing to second and maybe it crossed his mind. Tough call to make.
As you mentioned. It’s taught to little leaguers so that they don’t make what looks like an effort to go to second. But the rule states that the runner must show a committed effort to advance. I never turned out I’m high school, college, or after that. Never had an issue. It’s just bad officiating.
Marvin The runner never attempted to go to 2nd.
not too tough always been told turn right
Just looking at the base isn't enough to show intent. The turn left is iffy, Mancini never even started towards second though. He shouldn't have been called out.
The key is a committed effort. Did the runner "think" about going to second? Yeah, it almost definitely crossed his mind. Did he take one step towards second, just in case the opportunity presented itself? Yes, I believe he did. But that's not what the rule is, IMO.
growing up playing little league 20 some years ago, my coaches including my dad always taught us to turn to the ride if running throw first. never give them a reason to think you are turning to attempt a move to second base.
*right not ride
Yes, because in Little League you have Little League umpires. In the major you're supposed to have major-league umpires who know better than to make a shitty call like this.
running to the right puts you further from second on a overthrown ball. that's for little leaguers.
I always thought that was the actual rule lol even if you just turn that way you was deemed to be attempting to advance but I guess I was wrong lol
I guess Jomboy, who knows the rules inside and out so that he can accurately make these breakdown videos, has no idea what he's talking about when he says it's a bad call.
I was always taught that if you don’t intend to go to second turn around on the foul side of the line. It shows your intent to stay at first much more clearly. Once you step fair, if you’re not on the base you can be tagged out at anytime.
I was taught the same thing. I don't think this was either a good or bad call. I think it was a call and it sucked for one team and was good for another.
@@adamnathanielbassett it was the right call. was it a good call, no. Clearly the catcher saw it and thought the same thing when Mancini hopped out of foul territory and into fair territory towards.... second base. Great play by the catcher.
Agreed, I’d be bummed if I was the hitting team but idk If I’d argue , should’ve stayed on the foul side
The ump, the catcher, and the first base coach all saw it so i also don’t think it’s super clear cut. Not the worst call ever. Agree with these comments.
Yeah but then you aren’t ready to go to second if something else happens
I was taught to never turn left on a single back in Little League for this exact reason. If you turn right, your intention can never be confused. It's surprising how many things I was taught at 11 years old that MLB players could benefit from. Don't even wanna get started on swipe tags.
Yep, and it makes so much sense it should honestly just be the rule. If you're running through the bag, turn right. The only reason to turn left or to even be indecisive is if you're thinking of running to 2nd, which means you're in play. Sucks to suck.
@@AllUpOns Damn. I've had 25 years of that method, and I've never thought of a rule change. YOU'RE RIGHT! So "accepting a single" would mean turn right, and get back to the bag at your own pace. Turn left is a gamble, and have to get back to the bag before the ball. Others might dislike it, but I'm for that.
Same thing. Right safe, Left fair game.
@@AllUpOns And people in the comments arguing how this isn't a rule, but the rule is about intent, and you can even see that he was turned to the right to look at the ball, then decided to turn his body the other way, which meant his head had to turn over 270 degrees. I think that is very much intent to having wanted to go to second, even if it was for a split second. At that time, I believe the rules says you have to touch the bag before they tag you out.
The correct way is just turn rite
But u can just turn around
But the lil baby jump to the left made the umpire think it was attempt I would of let it go!
generally speaking, if you turn towards second (especially if you cross the line doing so) its considered an attempt. He did turn towards second and you could tell for a second he THOUGHT about it, but saw the catcher was there to pick up the ball so he just kept turing back towards first base. He doesn't have to look at 2nd base for it be an attempt...the bag isn't going anywhere, he knows where he'd have to run. He was he saw for a split second the ball got by, did that jump turn because he the catcher was right there and just wondered back to first base.
I was taught pretty young, if you don't want to give the umpire the chance to make this exact turn, just turn to your right every single time you run through first base. Otherwise the assumption is, turning left is an "attempt" even if he were to have literally walked and did that turn towards 2nd and back to first it'd be an attempt.
It's a fringe call, but technically, you could run through first base all the way to the damn foul pole and still be "safe" as long as you turned to your right it wouldn't be out of the baseline or avoiding the tag etc. (obviously if he turned left in the outfield he'd just be outta the baseline)
It's an extremely fringe rule, but it's just there because it;'s the only bag you can run through and the thought process is, turning left means 2nd base. The only times anyone turns left is to round the bag (to see if they can take 2nd base or to force a throw) or because they intend on going to 2nd base. So JUST TURN RIGHT
The problem is that the rule is so subjective and it 100% depends on the player. You think Anthony Rizzo or Mike Trout would have been called out? Hell no.
@@davidrosensin7985 I mean a former MVP in Yelich got called for it. Trey Mancini is a cancer fought cancer so he''ll always be a feel good story. The rule it self isn't subjective. The attempt is "turning towards second base".
We were always taught, TURN TOWARDS FOUL GROUND, once you run through the bag, otherwise it could be considered an attempt at 2nd base and you could be tagged out. It happens at the younger ages far more often and by the rules...turning towards 2nd base, especially crossing the line into the field of play is LIKELY going to be considered an attempt.
I can't be bothered to go back and look at previous plays, but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of players turn to their right once they run through the bag, the only exceptions likely being, if they did turn left, they were walking, they didn't have a ball get by the first baseman and then do a weird hop skip to finish their turn, and they never crossed the foul line into the infield.
I mean, if you round the bag just to see if a cutoff throw goes through or to be ready to see if a fielder bobbles the ball you aren't technically "making an attempt" for the bag, you are preparing yourself for the attempt at 2nd base in case something happens, but if they get tagged they are out, mostly....because they are off the bag and in fair ground. That foul line is your best friend and so is turning to your right.
You know, I kind of have to disagree with you here jomboy. I'm actually okay with the call. As you correctly point out, it is a judgement call based on whether there is "intent" to go to second base, however minimal that attempt may be. That jump stop and slight turn towards second base was not natural. It was not something you'll normally see a runner do just running through the base like usual.
Long story short, I actually think this is the correct call. Is it kind of shitty and do I wish the language of that rule were changed slightly? Yes I do. This _shouldn't_ be an out in the interest of what is best for the game, but by the letter of the law, it is the _correct_ call.
Edit: By the way, it is not the turn towards second itself that made Mancini vulnerable to be tagged out. It was the unnatural looking jump stop, as in it looked like he was trying to quickly stop his momentum in order to change it. This is a borderline call imo, but I probably would have made the same call in the moment simply because (a) he turned and (b) his stop was unnecessarily fast.
@@fiawms I agree, it is too vague right now.
When I first watched it, I could see how the umpire thought he was making a twitch towards 2nd and then thought better of it. After re-watching a couple times, it's clear that he was looking over his shoulder to the right, and as he brought his head back around, his weight was off, so he stepped to the left real quick to catch his balance. Still, I think if there's a passed ball at first, you ought to hustle back to the base just in case. The catcher may have been watching the first base coach, or he may have noticed the ump had his eyes glued to the ball to watch for the tag, but it was a heads-up move to try the tag, and it paid off.
Would have been easier for him turn right since he was already breaking his neck in that direction but no he intended to go to second for a split second after seeing the passed ball then tried to play it cool. Good acting on his part, but the outburst was a little much.
I disagree. At no point did the runner do anything that looked like he was taking off towards 2nd. A slight knee buckle while turning is not an attempt to progress to 2nd base. The ump is a beta male and was way too influenced by the other team's 1st base coach is all.
@@ariesdane5876 It wasn't a "slight knee buckle." He literally hopped from foul territory to fair territory. Stop being so easily influenced by Jomboy's opinion beta male
The question is if he's looking over his shoulder to his right to see the ball then why would he take a step and turn to the left to turn around?
What makes it obvious to me that he started to go to second is that it was such an awkward move. He's literally half way turned around to his right and then steps to the left before stopping and turning to the left. It was a very unnatural move.
@@ariesdane5876 he turned left (towards second) that’s the rule. He’s out. You’re suppose to turn to the right
When I played baseball in high school our coach always said turn towards 1st and don't give the umps any reason.
180 left, 180 right, both turn toward first. You should have spent more time in geometry class instead of playing baseball.
@@LeCharles07 - No
If you turn to the left you face 2nd base, before going full 180. That is the issue.
If you turn to your right, you're turning towards 1st base, 1st.
D+ for the effort, dweeb
@@LeCharles07 don’t look/turn at 2nd, travel the line, they paint that line for a reason
Sound advice. It works.
To be fair: he did lean slightly to the left as he was turning to look where the ball went.
Ive always heard turn to the right so there's no doubt to your intentions
He did also look directly at second. Not sure why Jomboy says he didn't even look that way.
Ya he had his weight leaning left as he slowed down with a little left hitch at the very end which makes his gait also kinda left. Kinda a little baby trot banana turn since he was still on the line and he immediately stopped. Widest angle to 2nd ever, running into center field.
Since he saw the ball go by he turned left in order to go even if he didn't step hard. If he had come to a stop and then turned it could havd been ok but that's why you're trained to take a right turn to avoid the problem.
This is almost exactly like the Christian Yelich one against the Reds last year. (Edit: I just heard him bring that up)
@Deported Addict the difference is that in the Yelich case, U1 wasn't looking at Yelich when he made the move to 2nd; he was watching the ball to see if it goes out of play (which is his priority on that play). When he saw that it stayed in play, then he looked back to Yelich and Yelich was already walking back to 1st base, so U1 could NOT make the call that he made an attempt towards 2nd base because he did not actually SEE it. Here, Drake made the judgement that Mancini made an attempt (no matter how small) towards 2nd base.
yeah and both calls were correct
@@teewertz Mancini was not
I remember Greg Maddux getting called out for the same thing back in the day. You got to turn to the right. If you turn left, you could be going to second and thus be called out if you're tagged. I reckon this used to be a real thing that everybody knew but over time umps just kinda quit calling it, so when you see it in modern times the ump looks like a jerk (which he probably is).
I remember being taught in hs we had to turn right because of this. Suprising when big leagers forget fundamentals of baserunnjng like this
@@ethanberschauer7010 that's not the rule though. you can absolutely turn left. You can't attempt to advance. That's the rule
@@ethanberschauer7010 Same
Literally had this called on me last week in my BEER LEAGUE when I turned to the right. The issue is “intention” is far too vague
@@ethanberschauer7010 it's surprising stupid, vague, and blatantly misunderstood rules still exist. Oh wait, no it's not, it's the MLB.
Umps are actually terrible already. Can’t wait for more of them🙄. Especially Angel
We are really short of umpires here hopefully you can join us next season
@@richardduggar4665 If they want to pay me I'll gladly learn how to ump
@@qwuzzy high school pays about $30 an hour $70 per game plus mileage
@@qwuzzy Seeing how bad they’re doing, you might not even have to learn
Looked like the right call to me.
Back in HS and college, my coaches always told us to banana out when u hit first no matter what. If it sails past the 1st basemen, the 1st base coach will let u know.
This was one of THE BEST breakdowns. From the beautiful catch in the intro to the Jomboy v Jomboy voiceover. 10/10
I think its a good call, definitely looked like he was thinking the ball might be overthrown and made a jump towards second. He saw it wasn't overthrown and reneged which is fine but he's gotta run back to 1st after that move.
No matter what you've all been taught growing up about always turning right. It's comical that a guy can be slowly plodding back to first base, and get called out for attempting to go to second base.
Once that line is crossed you know you're a hot target and need to tag up.
Don't cross the line.
@@saltydiarrhea386 That isn't what the rule says.
@@jonathanfields87 Agreed, but that's what it should be. Completely unambiguous.
@@castaway9642 OK, bad call, but Mancini opened himself up to the possibility of a bad call.
@@MarcosElMalo2 Yes. He crossed the line. And that should be the rule, but it's a judgement call instead.
As an official, making a ruling based on intent from a player is extremely difficult to judge.
That's why its if you take a step towards second base. That shows intent.
MLB players still have not realized that turning right instead of left after stepping on first avoids this entire situation. I find it hilarious. Good call by the ref.
@@rudythompson7377 did he name a "baseball move to second"? I say that is definitley too close to not being a baseball move.
@@baseballer21and0 Yes, he did. Left the runners lane, turned for, and took a step towards second.
Just because he decided not to go to second is irrelevant. Taking that step towards second makes him a live runner.
@@baseballer21and0 - So you don't think his brain was considering heading to second during that quick hop-step into fair territory but then he realized that the catcher was trailing the play and was already picking up the ball? If the runner can turn that direction while deciding whether to go to second or not, then why couldn't they take 3 steps toward second and then stop abruptly and walk back, claiming that they were no longer making any 'attempt' to go to second. If you veer to the left, it is assumed that you MEANT to veer to the left! Not that difficult!
@@ForensicEng nah honestly you guys are right. he definitely thought and acted on it. he made a baseball move towards second.
Are you doing a video with the cardinals bench clearing today?
yeah but thats gonna take a little bit. lot going on
@@JomboyMedia thanks daddy
@@ryanhudson5852 ayo
@@JomboyMedia Okay, your the man!
@@samthibert6527 what
For like the first time, I disagree with Jomboy. It doesn't matter why Mancini turned towards 2nd, but he did, so he can be tagged out. Fair game. Baserunners are trained to turn towards the stands after running past first base, so they can take their time back to first without risk of being tagged. If not, and they turn towards 2nd, they are essentially still "in play". That rule is there for a very good reason.
And believe me if the ball had gotten away, Mancini would have bolted to 2nd and being already to turned towards 2nd would have helped him get there faster.
The runner never got out of the base line.
@@88unstopable that doesnt matter. he turned the wrong way
@@reed5369 that's hilarious if you say it out loud.
One of the things I admire about professionals is how good they can be at the basics. Get behind the ball, put two hands on the ball and do the job.
When he turned towards second, he was ready to go if he could. He realized he couldn't and kept turning toward first.
HE TURNED TOWARD 2nd. END OF story. All the "experts" who look at this and start discussing nuances miss that first thing that we were all taught. Even if you turn right off the bag, if as you are walking back to the bag you take any step toward 2nd appreciably, you can get yourself in the same bind.
But that 1st base coach KNEW.
Unless you read the rulebook, right?
@@VAPhillyFan54 I try to explain to goal keepers when they are punting the ball, step across that line and I have to exercise my judgement. I have to decide whether your hand with the ball has gone over the line. If the foot is behind the line, I don't have to exercise judgment.
Turn away from second base, I don't have to decide intent.
I watched the video here three times. More than half the time, my internal reflex was "He made a turn toward the base and was ready to go to second but realized that that was a bad idea. "
1 time from 1 angle, I leaned toward him not have made an attempt at 2nd.
I have not reffed at high levels. People playing at higher levels have higher skills. There is a tap dance here. In soccer, I would be inclined to call dangerous play a lot more. The player at the higher level are much more skilled and the play may not be dangerous where it would be at the lower levels. No fun.
The rulebook may be allowing more discretion here. But the first base coach gives the answer. The Ump gave a good answer. The rest was theater meant to make the game more exciting. I am not saying that the anger expressed by the play and coach were not real. I am saying that baseball needs just a little drama to keep the game interesting.
I am also a ref biased in favor of the ref. Why? Because so much of being a ref is in between. This call falls into the realm of judgement. I would never have seen it if it weren't called. Seeing it called makes me say "Good Judgment". Now...
Try and compile a list of all the times a player turned left and was given the benefit of the doubt but probably shouldn't have been.
If you see me on the sidelines, you may hear me mutter. Occasionally I mutter more loudly than I should. Most of the muttering is on the fringes.
Probably the unpopular opinion here, but... he did make a movement toward second. Regardless of what way he turned, that little side shuffle thing he did could and should be considered as an attempt towards 2nd.
Exactly. They teach you in little league to always turn right....turn left and they can tag you.
@@joshthegringo I just made this a comment, I was always told turn away from the field of play.
Not an unpopular opinion as far as I am concerned. I agree.
Angel Hernandez would’ve called that play a strike.
Or a ball. Never know with him
Then he would have warned both benches...😂
Even the first base coach was pointing and telling him to go back to 1st base.
I know. Jomboy sucked with that pitcher/runner comparison...Dude turned his head and body towards the field of play. Yer OUT!
It’s close but when he looked back at the ball he seems to plant his right foot and move left then did the two footed hop. Just that slight job to the left shows for a split second he thought of going to second and that is all it takes to make an offer to second. Kind of like a bunt. The slightest move forward and you will get a strike ring up.
Yeah this is a good call. The look back while turning towards the field of play means if it got past the 1st base man he would have gone.
It’s one of those rules that is annoying as a fan to see but it keeps runners and first base man safe. Also to be a little more cynical when you first put on a baseballl jersey you get told by a coach to turn away from the field after a single that you run out.
💯
Except he has to show an attempt to run to second. He only showed an attempt to hop 💀
@@John-wb1ny that's the issue with Major League umpires: the rule is vague and gives them the opportunity to showboat by making an obscure call. And far too many of these guys enjoy showboating
@@10thletter40 using your definition if he walks to second they can’t tag him.
The only thing is....that manager said "he *stopped* going to second base", which implies that he was going to 2nd base, which would invalidate his immunity to being tagged out. If you make any play for 2nd, you're in play until you reach a base.
That said, he did NOT look like he was heading to 2nd.
Yeah. Who turns over their left shoulder to NOT go to second?
@@jmorrow6406 doesnt even step off the first baseline
I’m less concerned about this dumb-ass rule or whether the ump was right, then in how Mancini was just lost in his own world for about 7 seconds there. Calmly strolls back to 1B while his coach is pointing and the catcher’s running, and presumably people are yelling. Gets tagged and called out, and doesn’t even register for like 3 more seconds. Just shut his brain off once he got the base.
He was trying to play it off as if he did nothing wrong
@@pratt17648 Maybe, but two quick steps and he’s on the base with no dispute or controversy. Playing it off like you did nothing wrong only makes sense if the fielder is between you and the base with the ball.
Yes! Yes!!! Exactly what I was thinking. It's maybe not the best call and I think Jimmy is right that the whole thing got kind of fueled by the panic of others .. BUT also I'm like, why not just hustle back to the bag? So yeah, he's basically out for being tagged with the ball while not standing on a base which is a pretty normal rule of baseball. I think if the throw had gotten away from the A's , Mancini would sure as hell be flying over to 2nd so yeah basically the bad throw made it more of a live ball situation. Maybe we do need more of a little league type rule here so these situations could be clearer when they happen.?? As it is now, it's too easy 90% of the time for everyone to be lazy about claiming their base like poor sweet sad hurt space cadet Mancini
It's pure arrogance.
@@pratt17648 are you talking about the ump because the rule and that call are shit.
Jomboy needs to get hired by the CIA or FBI, his lip reading skills are off the charts.
lol it is pretty crazy
Loving the editing of them taking over each other
I know that i am so very late on this here but it is simple..these millionaires AKA baseball players needs to reminisce of the golden days of Little League back when we were instructed how to play proper baseball without the glitz and the glamour in the glory... when you run through first base you always turn to your right shoulder to turn around to come back to first as soon as you turn to your left side it is an intention to go to second it is a very cut and dry simple rule that's been there and still is there in Little League Pony League etc etc...now please, Next!!! Sorry and not Sorry...more or less, just saying!!!✌😎💯👈
This gives me flashbacks to when my coach kept telling us that you have to turn AWAY from second, or you can be tagged out. Found out hard way when on passed throw to first, hesitated a bit and checked second, did my right pirouette, amd was promptly tagged out by catcher. So confused, but once you pass that base if you even pause and think about second, get back to the bag quick
Yeah, he's out. Jomboy is wrong.
That slow walk back to first base…. Grow up and get back to the base before you get tagged out.
@Hacker Killer No...did you not se him get tagged out?
He didn’t think about second base. He did a jumped stop, turned to the left, and walked back to the base.
so you were taught to deal with umpires making bad calls and the problem IS the bad umping?
Wait for a "safe" call before sleeping. Hustle back to the base if someone's running toward you.
Baserunners stay alive by keeping close to the bag and watching where the all is. Mancini could have been watching and not sleeping.
Yeah, this is 300% his fault. Didn't give full beans through the base. Moved toward second. Walked back to the base slowly. He was being lazy and the ump made him pay for it.
@@RipleySawzen Yeah except that he was in the right. Why run back if you should be safe. Don't blame him on that terrible call. Turning left isn't an out
@@10thletter40 If you look at the MLB rules, they used words like "immediately" return to the base or return to the base "at once". If Mancini would have simply walked to the bag, not ambled like he did, he would have been safe.
There wouldn't even be an issue because the only reason he got tagged was he slowly stepped toward the base. The catcher had no play if Mancini would have been moving.
@@10thletter40 They allow you to run through first. If you are even _thinking_ about going to second, or making a play other than running through first, you should lose that privilege. The fact he was watching the ball and thinking about what his plans were is all the reason for him to be taggable. You have to be 100% committed to first base, and he was quite clearly not.
@@RipleySawzen actually, the laws of the game don't state about thinking, but about attempting. You can't even call that a pathetic attempt to go to second. The only pathetic thing is that call.
I get it, he could have done so much more as a runner, turned right, jogged back, but at the end of the day the blame goes with him
You know what, imma be honest, in real time it definitely feels a lot more like he might dash for 2nd. I mean, he looks back at the ball at first, and then he flips his head around the other way while also stopping all his momentum with that little hop, and still has his arms kinda "up and ready" before settling into a walk back to first... I dunno, I feel like I understand this call
I agree. I would have called him out. Obviously the catcher saw the same thing as the ump since the catcher ran over to tag him.
I agree, he made enough of a gesture it certainly looked like enough of a turn, no matter how small, to be called out. It's not anywhere close to the worst call we've seen umps make. Simply put you don't turn towards 2nd base even in the slightest if you're a base runner for this exact reason, or if you do, hussle back to first.
Finally somebody with an actual pair of eyes.
@@PurdyGood Maybe use your own pair and see that his feet were literally on the foul line the entire time- if he doesn't even go past that there's no way you can make that call.
He moved in the direction of 2nd. Any motion, however slight, can still be considered a movement to second and you’re a live runner. Just an amateur mistake by Mancini, and the call was correct
When I was training to be an umpire I remember them teaching to watch for which direction the shoulders turn to indicate intent. A turn away from the base is ok at first any turn toward fair territory is considered an attempt at second. Later saw a semi-pro team work do a local youth workshop where they coached the players the same interpretation. They even practiced how to stop and how to look when the ball gets past the first baseman.
When I played Little League we were always taught that when you run down to 1B you finish running and stay right of the 1B line. If you finish through the bag right of the line and then turn left to look at 2B (still right of 1B line) is that considered intent? Or do you have to pull a Zoolander and only turn to the right?
@@sutro-311 the way it was taught was Zoolander esc.
I am also very surprised pro-players still give ump a chance to make that call....
To me it’s pretty straightforward. If you don’t want to get called out turn to the right and don’t enter fair territory. I honestly like the call. This is baseball basics.
I think they probably shouldn't have called him out. But mancini could've avoided this all by just either moving to the right as any player is taught, and if he moved even slightly faster than a snail when going back to first while a catcher is sprinting at you with a ball
"This is baseball basics." not according to the MLB rule, the rule makes clear the runner must be moving toward 2nd base which Mancini clearly wasn't.
@@janetd5121 there is a moment where he literally moves toward second base by turning to his left. If he turned right than he would have been fine.
Even the coach says "he stopped going to second base", which means that he was "going to second base". Don't make a left turn EVER. FUN-DA-MEN-TALS
I was taught to never turn that way regardless unless you are going to second base. It's basic baseball. You can turn your head to look but not your entire body like that but what do you expect from players who can't even take an inside pitch without having a hissy fit
He took a step left because he saw the throw missed and the ball was loose. He DID NOT stay commited to first base there was a brief moment he saw the loose ball and at the same time he took a step towards second.
Good call blue ring him up, he cant get a free step like that
The way i always understood the rule was if you turn to your left after running through first it shows intent to run to second base you have to make the turn to the right like i made it to first and you look to your coach and your outside the foul line when you turn to your right. But when turning left it keeps you inside the foul line with a normal oppurtunuty movement to move to second and so you have to get back to first base.
That is exactly how I was taught in little league. And high school.
U learn that when your in t-ball
@@boneyardproductions He turned to the left, AND crossed the foul line.
The runner is out.
Always turn to the right. Baseball 101.
I feel bad for the Ump. He was correct.
@@randalwoodburn8247 Randall, you are correct. BUT watch in real time. He turned to the left.....if he turned to the right he would have been safe....but he turned to the left and made a little hop towards 2nd base. It was small, but it was there.
@@derek.avincent5822 I know u learn that when your in t ball 😂
MLB rule 5.09(b)(11) Any runner is out when: He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged.
I don’t think he made any attempt to advance to second.
I think he had a fleeting thought to go to second. That counts as an attempt to go to second in my opinion. It doesn't matter how fleeting the attempt to go to second base was. Even when I was 5 years old the coaches taught us to stay in foul territory or hustle back to first base so you don't leave it up to the subjectivity of the umpire.
@@tubehound69 I am not married to the idea that he didn’t violate the rule. I read a book years ago that discussed many of the MLB rules. The author of this book explained that, after overrunning first, the runner must “immediately and directly return to first base.” This was close. I am not opposed to changing my position.
@@tubehound69 he made no attempt, he looked over to see where the ball went as a walked back to 1st. zero aggression to get to 2nd.
Why is nobody pointing out even his own base coach knew…thats why he was telling him to get back to the base…look at him pointing…I see why the call was made…I dont think its a bad call
Yeah, he was going, everyone knows. They just hate umps.
The transition into the Keeps ad was pretty damn fantastic. Props to you, Jomboy.
Been watching the O’s for 38 years. This kind of stuff happens to them every game.
😆
This is the guy who spelled Civil War “Cival War” when talking about Trump getting impeached for the first time.
Who?
@@sneedus3476 Rob Drake.
We were always taught since kids, that you run hard through the bag and turn right. Idk if there's a rule about the direction you turn or if it's simply to avoid this situation, but yea, fundamentals.
I thought there was a rule that if you turn left, then you are fair game. I was always told to turn right when overshooting first base
I umpired for 15 years. I’m not sure why an ump would want to make a hero call like this. Embarrassing! You have to consider the spirit of the rule.
Well said.
There's no reason to cross into fair territory unless you are trying to get tagged out.
There's no reason to take so long to get on the bag.
I don't understand the laziness in the context of how much energy they expend while being baseball players.
If you hit the ball, run.
If you reach base, pay attention so you aren't tagged out.
I remember them telling the little leaguers to not turn around towards the field, but always turn towards the dugout or you might get tagged out.
Haven't watched sports in a while but if they can review a players action on the field after a game to fine them, do they do it for umps bad calls?
They're going to be experimenting with giving teams "challenges" to teams in the minor leagues this year. I think it starts sometime in May
They do, every ump gets a CD of the game and there missed calls are highlighted and counted
He takes a bit of a rounded step after having already glanced at the ball initially, moving himself from the right side of the foul line to the left side of it. The first base coach is pointing at first to say “Stay.” Both kind of indicate that it’s a live play unfolding by the second.
I think it was probably the *wrong* call, but I don’t think it was completely unjustified or fabricated out of nowhere. The ump’s not crazy for making that snap call in the moment based on what he saw. It’s just one that ultimately sucks when he has to defend it.
But he ends up back to the right of the line right after his jump turn, he's walking, and never takes an actual step towards second, there's no way he's going. Personally, I think it was a bad call
@@BenDover-fo7lg It was a bad call, but I can see why (in real time) an unpire can see that step over the foul line and think its intent. All of this could be easily avoided if mancini just turned to the right like any player is taught in little league and when he turned back and saw they were gonna go try to tag him just jog back to first so they can't actually tag him to even attempt. If you turn even slightly to the left and you see the catcher suddenly running at you to try to tag you, you shouldn't lazely be walking those last 5 steps at the speed of a snail
I’m with the ump on this one, growing up you had to turn right OR ELSE! it was considered going to 2nd
This is MLB, not Little League.
@@kqatsi so then what’s the rule? Cuz from this video it kind of looks like it’s the same rule as when I was in little league…
@@kqatsi It's *baseball* ,
@@notvalidcharacters Yes, and it turns out what we tell 10-year-olds doesn't apply across all levels of baseball. We tell little kids to turn right because it's easier for their developing brains (and for the low-level umpires) to understand "TURN RIGHT" than "don't make a movement that indicates an intention to go to second base."
@@kqatsi once AGAIN -- it's the *same game* . Mancini turned left -- which by definition indicates a movement to 2B --- but that's not what did him in. Even while his coach, who DOES know the rules, was frantically telling him to get back on the bag he sauntered in as if in slow motion. Had he showed a minimum of energy he'd have been back EASILY.
Honestly agree with the umpire here. Mancini was looking to go to second because the ball got by the first basemen. If the catcher wasn't backing up, he 100% would have gone two. When Mancini crossed the foul line and turned left, instead of right, he's clearly thinking two if the ball is going to the wall.
Literally one of the first things they teach you in little league is to turn to the right. He had it coming.
everyone knows if you turn left it counts as making an attempt
Another argument that it was a GREAT call is that he was watching the ball. You can not tell me that if that ball was not recovered, he would not have continued to second base. It's a left turn, coach admits he was going to second, 1st base coach was telling him to get back to first ASAP because 1st base coach knew he went to second. Period. :)
If hes not watching and first bag coach tell him to run the same result happen. They are kinda ina grey zone there i think. Hole between the rules.
That's not a good argument at all for it being a "GREAT call." You should watch the ball because you should be paying attention. You can not tell me that it's an out because he WOULD have gone to second if they hadn't recovered the ball... because they did recover the ball and he DIDN'T go on to second. Period.
Or he was simply looking at where the ball and the players was before making his decision on what he was going to do next.
I disagree. He's looking at the past ball and making a determination to go to second but it didn't go far enough for his comfort. I don't think he needs to look at or start going towards second to show intentt
i disagree about the past ball thing, since it's passed ball.
So looking at the ball to see if he should go to 2nd base... then he doesn't and just walks back to 1st. So his intent was NOT to go to 2nd base. He thought about it and decided not to. The ump is just flat out wrong.
@@danlorett2184 you can't ignore that he did take a side step to the left as he's looking at the passed ball. If it quacks like a duck
@@alfredoarellano6606 I feel like you're just not sure what the word "intent" means. "Intent" is not "he thought about it, then decided not to". That is the OPPOSITE of "having intent" to do something. In that case, his "intent" was NOT to go to second base because the pitch didn't get away from the first basemen enough.
You seem to think that if he EVER CONSIDERED, EVEN FOR A MOMENT, going to 2nd, then that is "intent". It's not. Intent would be him deciding to go to second and taking a concrete action to make that intent plain. Turning around and walking back to first base after running out his ground ball is NOT intent to go to 2nd base.
Even if you and a lot of other people are obsessed with the little league "always turn right!" nonsense.
You don’t need to turn right. You need to immediately return to 1B though. I think most umps punch him out with that jump towards 2B.
To all the, "I was taught to turn right in little league. Good call." folks out there, if you were watching this, and the ump didn't make the call, would you be upset, since you claim he clearly intended on going to second?
The only reason to turn left when you're looking at a wild throw to your right is if you intend to go to second. So yeah. It's a very human thing, but the ref, the 1st base coach, and the catcher all interpreted it the same way.
@@AllUpOns the ump sure. The catcher was following the umps lead, since the play wasn't over, and the first base coach was probably trying to tell the ump that he intended on stopping at first.
It seems like folks are trying to penalize him for LOOKING, which isn't against the rules (looking at the ball no less), and his alleged movement towards second, which is a HUGE stretch. He made a move that plenty of athletes make when stopping and changing direction. This isn't directed at you, but it's clear that a lot of people in these comments haven't played a sport past little league
When watching games, I see it all the time where the runner turns left and nobody tries to tag him out. Sometimes I end up yelling at the TV "TAG HIM!" or "GET BACK TO THE BASE!" simply because they turned left instead of right. It has always been my understanding that if you turn left, your intent is to go to second and you can be tagged out. Turn right and you are safe. I'm amazed it doesn't come up more.
In this case, even though he did turn left, I'm pretty sure he had no intention on ever going to second, but I still think the call is fair because he turned left. This is a real easy play to avoid by just turning right instead.
To the "this ump is terrible and has no idea of the rules folks" out there, why did the first base coach point for Mancini III to hustle back to first? It's always called this way, even one 45 degree step towards second counts as a move
nope cause i wouldnt know it existed. but watching a guy get called out cause he wants to walk slowly with swagger on a baseball field, is an all time favorite. even if he turned right and made that move, i still think he should be called out. what i was taught, even from semi pro coaches, is to hustle back so there is no discussion. so there is no opportunity for an ump to make a weird call. just a single jog and this wouldnt have happened. crazy right?
He's been playing baseball for a long time. Longer then I did. I know to always turn to the right. He should've known that. The first base coach seemed to know that. He messed up. You can't put this on the ump. He was in a position where he had to call him out.
You absolutely can put that on the ump. His momentum was completely stopped before he turned. Just watching it without the slomo it's easy to see and with the review it's even more apparent... He even said, it's about intent to go to second. He never even departs the baseline. It's just an ego move
Is there a rule that says a runner has to turn toward their right after overrunning first? Returning to first by turning counter clockwise is not, in itself, intent.
I'm with the ump here, he made a motion in the direction of second base, then thought again and went to first. Even his coach said "he stopped going to second base".
He just was too cool to get back to the bag fast enough.
Yup. It's technically the correct call.