The artistic justifies itself. The aesthetic and imagination has its own rules, on its own terms, even if it's like Hobbit lore, 'an obscure matter,' as Gandalf says. Tolkien understood this from the ancients, if not his influences in English.
The fact that, by her magic alone, the forest she lived in thrived and began to die when she left shows just how pwerful she is. Its not a direct power of force. Its something more, something greater. She doesnt need to fight, and thats power.
I wish we could have gotten more insight into the relationship between Luthien and Galadriel. There is a dynamic there that is fascinating for me to imagine. Melian's daughter and her pupil. Would there be a form of sisterly competition between them? Whas it Mean Girls style? Did she tell Luthien "Eww why you slumming with a mortal?"
Jokes aside it would be very thematically appropriate for Galadriel to warn Luthien off mortal marriage the same way Finrod seems to have opposed Aegnor and Andreth getting together. Later Finrod helps Andreth's grandnephew in his quest to marry an elf, and Ages later Galadriel not only allows but encourages her granddaughter's betrothal to Aragorn.
Doubt Galadriel viewed humans like that. Her brother Finrod discovered them and befriended them. She was just as friendly with dwarves as her brother was too.
I do find the idea of Sauron inciting what is effectively a worker's revolution in Hollin hilarious, if only because it lends a new angle to the whole fanon association of the Feanoreans with red. The Noldorin worker must seize the means of naval transportation! :p
🕊️🥥'Strange Sindar hiding in caves distributing cursed swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the Brotherhood of Jewelsmiths, not some farcical Telerin ceremony!'🥥🕊️
@@GirlNextGondor "The Naugrim were right to dethrone such blood sucking parasites, who would deny Quendi the right to their beloved mother tongue and withhold the fruits of artistry from the proletariat, hiding them away in those dank holes. Reactionary cowards may have struck down the freedom-loving champions of Nogrod, but we shan't forget our martyred comrades! Cuio i querë anann! Cuio i Celebrimbor anann!" - Probably someone a bit too excited by it all
As usual Sam explains it the best 🙂 I love that beautiful, simple, paradoxical description he gives to Faramir. She seems emblematic of Tolkien's sense of receiving the story and characters as 'given things' that he then needs to find out about.
I was getting that impression too as I researched! I always think it's really neat when an event or character's significance 'in-universe' parallels their significance to the author and the author's creative process/experience. The tension between her unplanned 'appearance' and Tolkien's later, more consciously-undertaken work building up a rational framework around her is part of what makes her frustrating but also compelling.
She's one of the characters that Tolkien went back and forth about the most. She's my favorite character but her history is a mesh of different ideas and iterations
For me, Galadriel is a link to the awe inspiring, "Elder days before the fall of mighty kings in Nargothrond and Gondolin," of song. A link, stronger by far, than even older beings, like Bombadil or Treebeard. She also exemplifies that ineffable mystery at the heart of the legendarium, far more than any other character (in The Lord of the Rings, at least). Great analysis, as always, Lexi.
I have always had a fascination with her, and I think Cate Blanchett did a marvelous job playing Galadriel in the movies. I won't insult her by comparing her to the psychopath in RoP...
There is definitely a lot more to Galadriel's character and story than we get to see in LotR (book or movie). I felt like a lot of those interesting elements that could have been explored were either overlooked or over-simplified.
When I heard the Peej movies were being made at all, literally my _first_ thought was "I hope they get Cate Blanchett to play Galadriel." This is partly because I think she has a stately kind of beauty that suits the character extremely well (and, as a minor appearance-related point, she apparently always wanted to have pointy Elven ears!), and partly because she has, or can command, an unusually deep voice, something Galadriel is noted as having; but also she's just such a talented actress. I can't think of many people who could convincingly play both an immortal Elven queen capable of striving magically with a demonic demigod who's literally more ancient _than the world_ , and also a bored suburban housewife who decides to become a polyamorous bank robber in slightly less than an afternoon (I'd forgotten that _Bandits_ came out the same year as _Fellowship_ until I looked it up just now). Reworking a line from an episode of _Modern Family_ (if anyone still remembers that show), I'm of the opinion that Cate Blanchett could play Batman and it would be the right choice. Some months later, I overheard someone say they thought she was not a good choice for the role 🤨 because she "wasn't pretty enough" 🤬. I very nearly had my own Gimli-in-Edoras moment just then.
I think the statement that Celeborn and Galadriel were the Lord and Lady of the Elves of Eriador could still mean they were subordinate to Gil-Galad as High King. My interpretation of what Galadriel said to Frodo after she turned down the One Ring was that she could have gone back long ago but chose to stay for various reasons, some good, some bad. When she rejected the One (which I think was a near thing), she finally realized that when the War of the Ring was over, it would be time for her to return to Valinor. The multiple and often conflicting story lines for Galadriel truly do allow for an extraordinarily wide variety of head canon.
When the Second Age entered, there was no other main character who could be described as the ringleader among those who participated in the Noldor's rebellion. Therefore, the fact that a personal ban was placed on Galadriel by the Valar and that this ban was removed in return for Sauron's contribution to the expulsion process (his behavior that could be described as a test, such as helping Frodo and rejecting the One Ring) brings the story to a more coherent level. Subjecting such a test of repentance against rebellion in the desired place of someone (motivated to leave Valinor) to remain in Middle-earth seems to have been part of his purification process. I think that Nenya's change in her character had a big impact on Galadriel's rejection of the One Ring. If Galadriel had never possessed Nenya, she would have been more susceptible to being lured and corrupted by the force, in line with her motivation (one of the main traits of her character) for her departure from Valinor.
"When the Second Age entered, there was no other ... ringleader among ... the Noldor's rebellion" -- not true, or not necessarily anyway! Maglor's disembodied stubble was presumably still floating around
“And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. And now, what ship will bear you back across so wide a sea?' [Saruman] mocked. 'It will be a grey ship, and full of ghosts.' He laughed, but his voice was cracked and hideous.” I always found this line interesting because Saruman is directly referencing Galadriel’s song “I sang of leaves …” implying that she’s had these misgivings about her ability to go home to Valinor or for a long time, and that at least the (formerly) Wise are aware of her plight
Tolkien published an important paragraph about Galadriel in _The Road Goes Ever On_ (1967), which includes: "At the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so. She passed over the mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion." ((Yes, in the first sentence "to do so" lacks an antecedent.))
I like to see Galadriel as playing the very long game: gradually building allies and trust, learning the most important lore and skills available under Melian, and finally acquiring a domain through diplomacy when one presented itself, but largely waiting on the sidelines for the few greater powers to burn themselves out before really asserting herself. It worked: all her patience and effort brought all the power she could want right to her, but by that time, she knew better than to accept it. I like to think that what she really wanted was to prove that she could have done it, that she was at least the equal of any of the mighty lords that had gone before her, all the more so because she was too wise to actually claim that power. Moreover, I like to think that she proved that what my daughter has called Galadriel’s “girl s__t” approach is as or more effective than any warlord’s path to power.
Galadriel was not in the line of succession especially since her father was in Aman, there were more viable claimants to any throne in Beleriend. Since there is a patriarchal and royal attitude to family blood lines, ie only Aragon could be crowned king of Gondor; Galadriel would probably not be capable of gaining a realm through inheritance. I think she did it this way because she had no other choice. There was no time to assert her claim on any throne; with the constant wars with Morgoth; the great rulers of Fingolfin, Feanor (and his sons), Fingon, Gil Galad, and etc. She was not in line to receive any power, and would she even want that? To inherit a kingdom in the middle of a war with a valar? She is proud, confident, and originally in the beginning headstrong and foolish; but I don't think she was that foolish or arrogant. She saw what Feanor did and tried to learn from his lesson. The only time she could assert her authority was when the other great elves had vanished, and there were the silvan and sindar who needed guidance. She was able to use her charm, power, and wisdom and took over the disorganized elven Sindar and Silvan survivors. Lothlorien was never as great as when Lindon was in its glory, or the Elven realms of Beleriend, but it was one of the last elven realms in Middle Earth and with all that glory and power it entailed. She saw what war and power had brought her family and was never in the position to take it. If she had the opportunity to rule a realm early on, I think she would have taken it; but she most likely would have ended up dead just like her family and the other Noldor. She was doomed, but she escaped that doom by not getting any power herself until the ban was lifted, and she was still banned because she still desired power. I agree she was cunning, but only after learning from the mistakes of others; she was lucky in that she was never in a position to take power in the first age.
Galadriel is the quintessential example of women being beyond the comprehension of men. Even her creator couldn’t figure her out! 🤣 In seriousness though, I think Galadriel is not only an example of how Tolkien explored his own world, but also how over time he started to get more…sentimental for lack of a better word, like how Bill survives but all the ponies in The Hobbit die. Similarly he started turning Galadriel into this paragon, and I suspect it was partially his own Marian devotion at the back of that. But who knows. Galadriel is complicated lol.
You have a very engaging narration voice and I absolutely adore the depth and detail you bring for Galadriel's various quasincarnations. She has been in my top 3 favorite LOtR characters since long before the movies. Look forward to your future works!
Thanks Lexi! That was one of my favorites! This is what happens when you are editing your work and realize that you have personified a Silmaril, in all its beauty, peril, and power. I find Galadriel to be a great counterpoint to Luthien. Luthien is best when she's on the go. Luthien goes on Twilight adventures with her betrothed and follows him to hell. She then puts the Devil to sleep, steals one of his Quest Items, and makes the gods weep so that she can have a life with her true love. Galadriel is all about defense. She is the Third Age scion of Melian, who guards a warded magical land in defiance of the current Dark Lord. Self imposed or not, Galadriel's continued vigilance and her endorsement of the union of Aragorn and Arwen, fulfills the plan of Eru that the Firstborn equip the Secondborn to inherit Arda, ere the Firstborn leave for their Home.
Excellent way to look at it! Both very powerful but in different, complementary ways. I'd even extend that lens to comparing Arwen and Eowyn. Obviously Eowyn takes a more active direct role, but Arwen is at least as influential, but in a different way.
I think you make a great point and I imagine that, had Luthien not chosen a mortal life, she would have become a great leader of the second and third ages. I think Sauron would have really feared her.
@@GirlNextGondor But shed hairs usually aren't from dying follicles, they're from follicles' natural growth cycle - that's why if left alone hair will usually extrude to a certain length and stop - each hair cuts off, falls out, then restarts. Moreover, wait... how does hair even _happen_ then? It's a big ol' extrusion the connected skeletons of dead cells. (I'm clearly taking this line of reasoning *much* too far. XD)
Hey GNG, thanks, that was great stuff. I think many are fascinated by the lady of the golden wood. I think in her creation Tolkien intended mystery and long history, to entice the reader, but he like us all became fascinated by her glittering allure. He had to know more and like a fan boy writing his own fiction gave many different characters,justifications and histories too her in that “fan fiction.” As ever your insights are well constructed, succinctly expressed and like the two trees illuminating. I would just like to point out in case you are unaware a fine, piece by other hands and minds inspired by this enigmatic elf. There is a song Galadriel by a seventies British Rock band Barclay James Harvest. There are unsurprisingly many versions of this, the original album version being probably the best. Thank you for what you do.
It's funny. I sometimes think we can take this TOO seriously, and there are people who do, but Tolkien treated it like it's " Real " history, and asks us to do the same. His writing, Besides it's wonderful amalgamation of existing mythology, also gives us an insight into the mind of a truly brilliant artist/scholar. 🤘😁🖖🇨🇦
True indeed.Remember what Tolkien said about those who criticised those of us who loved history and myth true 😢 or false -there are those who just rin but also those who do so througha longing for beauty and truth.
Nah Guinevere cheated with Lancelot, she's more Morgan Le Fay for her mysterious witch of the woods appearance. And Arthur is the the archetype of the King
@@squaeman_2644 that depends highly on which version of the myth. I only mean that she is a lofty queen who chivalrous knights try to win the favor of.
My main complaint with ROP Galadriel is that she's so damn short lol Give that actor a box to stand on or something. Elf tower lady ought to be tall af
A mortal arrives in Faerie bearing a terrible gift. The gift of choice. Who are you Galadriel? No more wishing and wondering the Elf Queen must decide.
As far as LOTR goes, I always assumed she was not brought up because Lorien is a hidden kingdom, spoken of only in whispers and legends. It's not like Rivendell which is basically a free hotel for travellers; they generally shoot you if you cross the border. Also one of the Three Rings is hidden there. Frodo is sternly rebuked by Aragorn when he mentions it and her outside of Lorien.
Damn. You just made me realise that Galadriel recreated Doriath. Or rather, it was a lesser shadow of Doriath because time can't progress so long as the elves are in Middle Earth.
@@jacobvardyif you think about it, Galadriel and Thranduil both tried to recreate the glory of Doriath in their respective realms. You could make a case for either of them being more successful in this endeavor, but likely the two of them were present in Doriath at the same time (Thrandy may have been just a kid though when Galadriel showed up) and knew about the impact it had on the rest of the Sindar in Middle Earth
Fascinating figure. Tolkien till the end of his life changed her role in elder days and shifted her role and influence in rebellion along side her idea about what she want and did she get some kind of permission to leave Valinor.
It is always interesting to see how Tolkien's thoughts on characters and plot points (or 'history') changed over time. It gives hope to me as an aspiring writer to see that he (a genius) struggled to figure things out and to see that some of his ideas were worse than others etc. However, I think there is also something to the work being 'solidified' by publication. In more mystical terms I might even say there is something incarnational about it. Even if the author continues to niggle and tweak and rethink, the published work has, in a certain sense, moved beyond the ethereal realm of the author's thoughts. It has, perhaps, gone from being a monologue in the author's mind, with himself, to being a conversation with other minds. I don't wish to undermine the primary authority of the author's mind over his creation, but I suspect Tolkien would in some sense agree, that a creation, in order to ever achieve the reality the creator desires, must take on it's own life, and in some sense, become distinct from the mind of the creator. PS. perhaps this will be a controversial opinion, but I think Galadriel has some of the worst portrayals in adaptions. I've always hated the over-the-top nonsense that Jackson did with her.
Ooh, I like that perspective! - and I think Tolkien had some sense of that too, which is contributed to his spending so much time making sure all the details of his invented setting worked together believably, and why he considered the published text 'sacred' in a way even if he later wished he could change parts of it to fit his later conceptions. Aspects of the Jackson-Blanchett Galadriel worked for me in FotR, but in the Hobbit her portrayal started to veer into 'silly,' imo. I also really wish Jacksonian-Lorien was, y'know, a GOLDEN wood 😅
"We have fought the long defeat." That is undoubtedly one of the most hard-hitting lines ever written. It just... says so much. It captures "the Doom of the Elves" completely. It was always their lot to vanish from Middle Earth, by one path or another. I'm very glad Galadriel did so by sailing west rather than "fading" - for her to fade would have been tragic. And the fact that it took her all those thousands of years to be ready to accept her Doom says something about the power of her soul.
Celegorm, Aredhel, and Artanis all having a like-button-smashing contest, Celegorm accidentally winning when he falls to last place, loses his temper, and starts smashing things in earnest....
On the question of why, if Galadriel was the ruler of Eregion, would she allow Annatar to remain there, and for Celebrimbor to do a coup against her, I think it reminds me a lot of her brother in Nargothrond. Finrod is the King of Nargothrond, and yet the Feanorians are also there, and when Finrod leaves with Beren to fulfill his oath, they do a similar coup to gather power. It makes Celebrimbor a really interesting figure because he denounces his own father in this attempt, but then does the same thing to Galadriel in Eregion if we take that story line.
IIRC Celebrimbor's lineage was still somewhat in doubt when the 'coup' story was written, but that would just make it another case of Tolkien accidentally writing himself into thematic depth 😅made particularly poignant by Sauron's involvement in each case; Celebrimbor forcing Galadriel out of her first founded city and into the Hidden Kingdom that will endure longer whereas Finrod's expulsion drove him *back* to his old fortress; Celebrimbor's torment at Sauron's hands acting as a sort of referred payback for his father's treachery (and his continued silence about the location of the 3 in the face of said torment mirroring the fidelity of Finrod &co)... Sauron stripping Finrod of his disguise and Galadriel (possibly) doing the same to Sauron.... it's all very crunchy and savory, no less so for likely being accidental!
Absolutely agree.The Feanorians the Promethean "spirits of fire"were enormously powerful with elvish "magic".Corrupted as they were I think their powers of "seduction"inthe sense of ,just like their father and grandfather before being able to manipulate large groups of people-in other words either with her there Eregion was ripe and ready for their corruption by The Deceiver.
I would say Galadriel not wanting to go back to Valinor and She not being allowed to, are not nessesary two different things. it might be more like two sides of the same coin
Agreed! There seem to be 3 possibilities (all suggested at one point or another in the various writings): 1) she was allowed, but chose not to return 2) she wanted to but wasn't allowed 3) she was told she wasn't allowed (or wouldn't be allowed if she refused the chance offered after the war of wrath) and said she didn't care because she didn't want to come back anyway 😂
@@MusikCassette No, it is exactly that simple. It is also important to note that Galadriel could have returned. By the 3rd Age they had all been granted the ability to return. She was choosing to remain, and it is likely she would have chosen to have remain as long as possible. The destruction of the One Ring and the failing of hers is the only reason she sent back.
Note that the Elessar tale seems to predate 'Concerning'. It has Finrod for Finarfin, which CT changed to avoid confusion. Celebrimbor is the Celebrimbor of Gondolin variant, rather than the Celebrimbor of Feanorean, descent as he is made in the mid 1960's revision to LotR. (Reconciliation mode): 'diminish and go into the West', alternatively could imply 'fade' and then her fea goes into the West. It is also interesting to note that in the various 'ageing' schemes, Tolkien is consistent in asserting Galadriel to be 'young' ('20' in 'growth-years') at the time of the darkening of Valinor and subsequent Exile. The later 'growth-rates' to maturity (1 : 1, 3 : 1 and even the 12 : 1) make some of 'philosophical rather than historical' writing about her in Shibboleth incongruent.
All good points! My big takeaway from the aging schemes was that as Tolkien made rebellion-era Galadriel young enough to, eg, allow her to have Celebrian in the early Second Age, Celeborn got comparatively older, leaving us with an early-20s-equivalent Galadriel falling for a 40something Celeborn as one possible scenario (that is, if I'm remembering it right). I can't help but think of this when I read Galadriel's assertion (often disputed by readers) that Celeborn is wise. Maybe she just initially mistook his greater *maturity* for wisdom, and the impression stuck 😂
@@GirlNextGondor In that particular variant, Galadriel was '28' when she married Celeborn, who was '45'. In that variant Celeborn was a generation up from her. In the (later) variant where he is a grandson of Elmo (rather than son), while Tolkien does not give an age, I would suspect Celeborn would be the equivalent of not more than 35 (still older, as making the husband older than the wife is another consistent theme).
I’ll be 60 this year. First read LOTR when I was 12, back in the Blessed Realm. So to speak. Galadriel was immediately my favorite and has remained so ever since. Anything and everything more I can find out about her is always welcome, so thank you.
Galadriel in part represents Tolkien's evolving view of women, as with many men of his generation, as the 20th Century progressed. She was his only major female character to be present across the entire history of Middle Earth, so she became a channel for his ideas or as a means of correcting mistakes it seems he felt he had made with LOTR, such as its relative lack of women. Tolkien's world up until he had children and even after that, until the success of LOTR, was a boy's club. He was happily married, but he and his friends in academia were all men and his wife may have been the only adult woman he truly knew. The final version of Galadriel, where Tolkien puts her on the level with Feanor in might and states that the history of the Eldar is the history of Galadriel, Feanor and Luthien is unsurprising to me, coming as it did in the early 1970s, after Tolkien had raised his female children, observed the feminist movement and spent decades interacting with female fans.
I been listening yo you at work lately. I think your kinda great. I tried to say that before, but i think i only managed to sound like a butthole. I guess tolkien and hopefully you are fond of second chances.
No worries man! 😁 I wasn't offended, sorry if I seemed brusque. Sometimes I get a little swamped by comments and have to get "efficient" in the replies. Glad you've been enjoying the videos!
Yes of course I enjoyed this synopsis... but I am a bit surprised you didn't venture more into Galadriel the Craft Master... 2nd only (possibly) to Feanor? which means there is a case to be made that perhaps she wasn't 2nd to Feanor... right? After all, just as Feanor had captured the light of the two trees in the silmarils, Galadriel was able to capture the light of Elendil (and his silmaril) in the phial she gave to Frodo. What other Elven craft masters were able to catch light? She fashioned Gandalf's staff when he returned as Gandalf the White, the soil and seed she gave Sam were definitely imbued with incredible (magical?) properties.. as was the Elven rope. She made that lembas bread... and it makes me wonder, just as Melian "lent" much of her Maiar power to Elwe Thingol, could she also have "lent" some of that power to Galadriel? It seems implied that she took Elwen under her wing and taught her much about crafting... because didn't she sew the Standard for Aragorn? Then... there is a question as to who actually reforged the shards of Narcil (sp?) ... knowledge long forgotten and perhaps only remembered by someone like Galadriel. Though rarely achieving fame in history, the impact of women is HUGE and often not noted... and Galadriel is very much the epitome of this phenomenon. I think other than the wizards... who came into their "human" forms very late, comparitively... Galadriel is the oldest character in the book (and Bombadil, of course). Even Glorfindel is probably younger than she is but if not, he's died once already and come back. There is SO MUCH MORE to Galadriel than most will put together. I feel like you KNOW this and shared it with us, but you've only just scratched the surface. Oh... and, yeah, I think that last account of how Galadriel and Celeborn met and were planning to return to middle earth even before the whole doom of the Noldor thing makes the most sense. If I have a choice - that's the one I'd go with. Meanwhile... I have to acknowledge the ambiguity/confusion about the rise of the elves. It wasn't an Adam and Eve and their offspring thing... it seems like Illuvatar made 3 sects of elves in the beginning... perhaps thousands of each... because they didn't seem to start having offspring until they got to Valinor/Aman. For years I was trying to see an Adam and Eve like common ancestor in the elves... and the hundreds or maybe thousands of years they would have lived in middle earth under the stars before embarking on their journey to the undying lands.
I think the evolution of Galadriel's personality over the Ages is one of the best parts of the whole story, even though there's not a whole lot of it in literal writing. But it's totally clear that she evolved from a "nobility hungry" (I don't quite want to say "power hungry") young woman into a lady of high wisdom. It's a fantastic journey. Even though I'm not at all 100% happy with Amazon's "Rings of Power," I do think it's shown that young and feisty side of Galadriel quite well.
22:07 okay so the ship literally dumped everyone except Gandalf off at Eressea and dropped him off at Alqualonde before Cirdan turned around and went back one last time to wait for Sam and Celeborn? Except Elrond who was born in middle-Earth and never took part in the Kingslaying? and we know her brother Finrod eventually got to go back to Valinor once his short stay in the halls of Mandos was over after dying in the pit of Tol-in-Gaurhoth because the Silmarillion explicitly states he's hanging out with his dad Finarfin. This is maddening!!!! Honestly exile on a small island within site of your estranged family and friends has to be a punishment worse than exile in middle-Earth right?
As I age (I am now in my 40s), I realize that not every aspect of a story needs a backstory. In fact, learning the backstory of some characters removes the magical element, the aura of mystery around them, it reduces them to mondain people. For me, the best version of Galadriel is in the 1978 Lord of the Rings movie.
is she not the last of the Children of Iluvatar left in middle-Earth who was alive during the time when the Two Trees were the only source of light in the world aside from Stars? Maybe Glorfindel though I don't know if it is expressly stated he was born before the First Age and I don't know if Cirdan was Sindarin or not.
You know I just now thought of the reality that the Ringbearers, Gimli and Legolas all sailed West but where did they eventually end up? Did they make it to Valinor or when they got to Tol Eressea Gandalf kicked them all off the boat while he got to finish the journey?
The way Tolkien writes is the way he wants readers to view his works: as a re-telling of stories written by the people who experienced it themselves. Therefore, it only makes sense that different accounts would paint a different pictures of events and especially the people who participated in them. Galadriel always stood out strongly for me, the way a beautiful woman you see but briefly stands out. You begin to make up stories about her, what she likes, what makes her furrow her brow, what she delights in doing, and maybe even what adventures you might embark upon together. Tolkien himself doesn't seem immune to this kind of speculative reverie, and the way different characters talk about Galadriel reflects this. She is their idealized symbol of all that is beautiful and good remaining in Middle Earth, that which they are willing to fight and sacrifice for.
Seriously, this question has vexed me more than any other as I try to reconcile whats written in LOTR with everything else. I prefer the versions where she was more corrupted in the beginning. It seems like makes her arc more powerful and justifies her personal Ban thats made such a big deal of. I also like the idea of the elves of Eregion rebelling because we need more elven coups, not less.
Unless we're to believe the behavior pf ther sons of Feanor in Nargothrond was a completely unique and freakish example of elven political intrigue. I think it makes sense that more of the Noldor would be arrogant enough to try their hand at seizing power, especially Noldor obsessed with shady craftsmanship.@@GirlNextGondor
I guess when someone is 8,372 years old, they have time to try out different strategies and personas, adapt, and mature. It isn't surprising that there are many versions of Galadriel, if one takes only small snapshots of time to try to define a life long-lived. Unlike Christopher Tolkien, who sees these "severe inconsistencies" as problems, maybe we should look upon those inconsistencies as actually being full of hope, in that they show that one can remake themselves and redeem themselves if they reflect on their lessons learned and, from those mistakes, attain wisdom, understanding, and compassion.
I think Tolkien wrote base Galadriel for the books. And as we know back in his time he received tons of letters, there might have been many questions about Galadriel that made him think and rethink about the character to the point even not long before his passing he was still writing about her.
Very interesting video, too me her contradictory and mysterious past is very present in the different ways that fans seem to interpret her story. In one fanfiction I’ve read she is very close to Feanor until the Kinslaying after which she decides to go to Beleriand to subtly oppose him. In another fanfiction she and Celeborn meet and fall in love in Valinor, and she is very strongly opposed to Feanor from the get go. Anyhow the varied ways in which her story and character was interpreted always confused me, until this video, so thank you for that.
I am a massive fan of Tolkien but I find it counter to the rules of his world that the Three Elven Rings that were not made by Sauron or with his knowledge would cease to function after his defeat. The fact that they are worn by their Bearers while he exists and can still dominate the Nine despite not having the One is further proof of that line of thought. I know it fits the narrative, but I find it the only unfortunate instance of a blatant contrivance for the sake of narrative that I cannot overlook.
Brava for tackling what is probably the most convoluted and open-ended character historiography in JRRT’s universe. It’s all too easy to cherry pick the bits and bobs of what’s written about Galadriel into a reasonable narrative, but you’ve successfully avoided that trap.
Thank you, relaxing and informative as always. I've been seeing a meme that admires Tolkien's world-building while bashing other writers for adding information much later. The author of the meme must know very little about Tolkien. If I've learnt anything from your channel, it's that Tolkien just couldn't stop fiddling with his lore.
I like your videos on LOTR lore and takes on characters. I actually learned some stuff I didn't know regarding Eowyn and Merry. I have to say that lately I have a great sorrow regarding LOTR though. When I read through the comments on any LOTR content, anywhere from half to two thirds of the comments are hate posting on Rings of Power. I despise being on the sidelines watching people be reactionary about it. It's almost a year later and people cannot help themselves but keep going. And it's ruining LOTR for me. I liked both the books, PJ trilogy and RoP. No take is automatically true or false because this is all escapist fantasy. I want to go to Middle-Earth to get away from the troubles of the modern day, but I don't want to be part of the fandom anymore if it means people gate keeping my escapist fantasy or stepping in someone's hate post at least once per day. The fighting just isn't worth it.
minute 5:59 you mentioned galadriel was made out in the composition in the Lord of the RIngs. but she already appeared in the hobbit? I could be wrong. Sorry
Maybe a product of me moving too quickly between in-universe timelines and the order in which Tolkien wrote things? To the best of my knowledge, when "The Hobbit" was composed (20s and 30s) Tolkien had not come up with the character of Galadriel and only started writing about that character in the 40s as he drafted LotR. After he finished LotR, he retconned Galadriel into the story of 'The Hobbit' by making her part of the group that drove Sauron out of Dol Guldur, something that is only referenced in the novel.
One way to get more insight into Galadriel is from "The Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin, and to consider both "The Faerie Queen" and Morganan the Fey. Tolkien found himself involved with these themes because of his connection to the land, so his writings on it were as various and nebulous as the histories of that Great Lady herself among historical peoples.
On the one hand, the Galadriel leveraging Celebrimbor's crush on her + patronizing attitude towards the Galathrim in Lorien is typical of a powerful woman depicted in medieval texts, even in favourable terms (Brynhild from the Saga of the Völsungs comes to mind). On the other hand, it makes sense that a prideful Ñoldo like Galadriel would've had this attitude in her youth. Still, i can't help but stick with the version of the legendarium where Galadriel and Celeborn only served as advisors and protectors of Lorien, never seeking to just take over it when the opportunity comes. Maybe a reconciliation is that she grew out of her patronizing concern for Lorien and stuck only to defending, not lording over elves she perceived as less wise
This afternoon I went to gaze upon a 6 story tall, 15 ton Rubber Duck in the town of Crisfield. MD. It was hot & sticky. Got home, fed the cats, and watched your video. Thanks. It beats a giant Rubber Ducky any day. As for Galadriel - an evil woodland sorceress, a gentle & loving fairy godmother, a wise & powerful elf queen. She is all that & a lot of mystery.
It was not my first journey into the tangly fens of 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn'... but certainly one of the more memorable ones 😬 Glad you enjoyed it!
I always interpreted the discrepancy of "I passed over the mountains." and Celeborn being from Doriath and likely meeting galadriel there this way. They likely did meet, fall in love, and get married in Doriath but the war of wrath was basically a gigantic 40-year long dumpster fire and it's not inconceivable that they got separated in the chaos and found each other much later.
Definitely one of the most plausible explanations. While Celeborn's possible origins are many and varied, the balance *seems* to come down on the side of 'Doriathrin noble.'
This is the most interesting and insightful post I've seen about LOTR, not only from you but from the host of youtubers with LOTR channels. Galadriel captures the essence of the entire legendarium better than any other character, and I think all the ambiguity and mystery around her is a major reason for that. Well done.
Wow. Thank you for all the great work! I love your essays and all the exploration of Tolkien's different thoughts throughout the evolution of his writing. This is so well researched. 👍
Maybe the true Galadriel is the one Tolkien made up along the way.
This guy gets it 🤣
**wipes tear from eye**
Such poetry - such prose. I salute thee.
Well there goes my idea for a response video to this one! You good sir are a sage worthy of Gandalf himself.
The artistic justifies itself. The aesthetic and imagination has its own rules, on its own terms, even if it's like Hobbit lore, 'an obscure matter,' as Gandalf says.
Tolkien understood this from the ancients, if not his influences in English.
The fact that, by her magic alone, the forest she lived in thrived and began to die when she left shows just how pwerful she is. Its not a direct power of force. Its something more, something greater. She doesnt need to fight, and thats power.
Ooooh. Well said.
I wish we could have gotten more insight into the relationship between Luthien and Galadriel. There is a dynamic there that is fascinating for me to imagine. Melian's daughter and her pupil. Would there be a form of sisterly competition between them? Whas it Mean Girls style? Did she tell Luthien "Eww why you slumming with a mortal?"
Jokes aside it would be very thematically appropriate for Galadriel to warn Luthien off mortal marriage the same way Finrod seems to have opposed Aegnor and Andreth getting together. Later Finrod helps Andreth's grandnephew in his quest to marry an elf, and Ages later Galadriel not only allows but encourages her granddaughter's betrothal to Aragorn.
Doubt Galadriel viewed humans like that. Her brother Finrod discovered them and befriended them. She was just as friendly with dwarves as her brother was too.
atrabeth finrod ah andreth is so fckin awesome
I do find the idea of Sauron inciting what is effectively a worker's revolution in Hollin hilarious, if only because it lends a new angle to the whole fanon association of the Feanoreans with red.
The Noldorin worker must seize the means of naval transportation! :p
🕊️🥥'Strange Sindar hiding in caves distributing cursed swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the Brotherhood of Jewelsmiths, not some farcical Telerin ceremony!'🥥🕊️
@@GirlNextGondor "The Naugrim were right to dethrone such blood sucking parasites, who would deny Quendi the right to their beloved mother tongue and withhold the fruits of artistry from the proletariat, hiding them away in those dank holes. Reactionary cowards may have struck down the freedom-loving champions of Nogrod, but we shan't forget our martyred comrades! Cuio i querë anann! Cuio i Celebrimbor anann!"
- Probably someone a bit too excited by it all
@@GirlNextGondor “You can’t become King just because some cave-dwelling tart throws a sword at you.” 😂😂😂
As usual Sam explains it the best 🙂 I love that beautiful, simple, paradoxical description he gives to Faramir. She seems emblematic of Tolkien's sense of receiving the story and characters as 'given things' that he then needs to find out about.
I was getting that impression too as I researched! I always think it's really neat when an event or character's significance 'in-universe' parallels their significance to the author and the author's creative process/experience. The tension between her unplanned 'appearance' and Tolkien's later, more consciously-undertaken work building up a rational framework around her is part of what makes her frustrating but also compelling.
She's one of the characters that Tolkien went back and forth about the most. She's my favorite character but her history is a mesh of different ideas and iterations
For me, Galadriel is a link to the awe inspiring, "Elder days before the fall of mighty kings in Nargothrond and Gondolin," of song. A link, stronger by far, than even older beings, like Bombadil or Treebeard.
She also exemplifies that ineffable mystery at the heart of the legendarium, far more than any other character (in The Lord of the Rings, at least).
Great analysis, as always, Lexi.
I have always had a fascination with her, and I think Cate Blanchett did a marvelous job playing Galadriel in the movies. I won't insult her by comparing her to the psychopath in RoP...
There is definitely a lot more to Galadriel's character and story than we get to see in LotR (book or movie). I felt like a lot of those interesting elements that could have been explored were either overlooked or over-simplified.
RoP, the faster we bury that into pink soil, and forget about it... the better.
@@aserta "Pink soil"??
@@aserta Pink... how much feldspar are you talking about there? Something like the red clays of Oklahoma?
When I heard the Peej movies were being made at all, literally my _first_ thought was "I hope they get Cate Blanchett to play Galadriel." This is partly because I think she has a stately kind of beauty that suits the character extremely well (and, as a minor appearance-related point, she apparently always wanted to have pointy Elven ears!), and partly because she has, or can command, an unusually deep voice, something Galadriel is noted as having; but also she's just such a talented actress. I can't think of many people who could convincingly play both an immortal Elven queen capable of striving magically with a demonic demigod who's literally more ancient _than the world_ , and also a bored suburban housewife who decides to become a polyamorous bank robber in slightly less than an afternoon (I'd forgotten that _Bandits_ came out the same year as _Fellowship_ until I looked it up just now). Reworking a line from an episode of _Modern Family_ (if anyone still remembers that show), I'm of the opinion that Cate Blanchett could play Batman and it would be the right choice.
Some months later, I overheard someone say they thought she was not a good choice for the role 🤨 because she "wasn't pretty enough" 🤬. I very nearly had my own Gimli-in-Edoras moment just then.
I think the statement that Celeborn and Galadriel were the Lord and Lady of the Elves of Eriador could still mean they were subordinate to Gil-Galad as High King.
My interpretation of what Galadriel said to Frodo after she turned down the One Ring was that she could have gone back long ago but chose to stay for various reasons, some good, some bad. When she rejected the One (which I think was a near thing), she finally realized that when the War of the Ring was over, it would be time for her to return to Valinor.
The multiple and often conflicting story lines for Galadriel truly do allow for an extraordinarily wide variety of head canon.
Another banger. My favorite part was the complete and total absence of any reference to The Show That Must Not be Named.
Thank God for Writers' Guild strikes. 👍
Hallelujah for both!
When the Second Age entered, there was no other main character who could be described as the ringleader among those who participated in the Noldor's rebellion. Therefore, the fact that a personal ban was placed on Galadriel by the Valar and that this ban was removed in return for Sauron's contribution to the expulsion process (his behavior that could be described as a test, such as helping Frodo and rejecting the One Ring) brings the story to a more coherent level. Subjecting such a test of repentance against rebellion in the desired place of someone (motivated to leave Valinor) to remain in Middle-earth seems to have been part of his purification process.
I think that Nenya's change in her character had a big impact on Galadriel's rejection of the One Ring. If Galadriel had never possessed Nenya, she would have been more susceptible to being lured and corrupted by the force, in line with her motivation (one of the main traits of her character) for her departure from Valinor.
"When the Second Age entered, there was no other ... ringleader among ... the Noldor's rebellion" -- not true, or not necessarily anyway! Maglor's disembodied stubble was presumably still floating around
@@gabrielblanchard3921 Whether Maglor survives is speculation, but Galadriel is certain. It is better to think in this context.
“And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. And now, what ship will bear you back across so wide a sea?' [Saruman] mocked. 'It will be a grey ship, and full of ghosts.' He laughed, but his voice was cracked and hideous.”
I always found this line interesting because Saruman is directly referencing Galadriel’s song “I sang of leaves …” implying that she’s had these misgivings about her ability to go home to Valinor or for a long time, and that at least the (formerly) Wise are aware of her plight
Tolkien published an important paragraph about Galadriel in _The Road Goes Ever On_ (1967), which includes: "At the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so. She passed over the mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion."
((Yes, in the first sentence "to do so" lacks an antecedent.))
Hey thanks! “Extra canonical Galadriel factoids” is my new prog-rock band name now 😂
😂
Galadriel in the Shire would be like Galadrielzilla😂
I like to see Galadriel as playing the very long game: gradually building allies and trust, learning the most important lore and skills available under Melian, and finally acquiring a domain through diplomacy when one presented itself, but largely waiting on the sidelines for the few greater powers to burn themselves out before really asserting herself. It worked: all her patience and effort brought all the power she could want right to her, but by that time, she knew better than to accept it. I like to think that what she really wanted was to prove that she could have done it, that she was at least the equal of any of the mighty lords that had gone before her, all the more so because she was too wise to actually claim that power. Moreover, I like to think that she proved that what my daughter has called Galadriel’s “girl s__t” approach is as or more effective than any warlord’s path to power.
Galadriel was not in the line of succession especially since her father was in Aman, there were more viable claimants to any throne in Beleriend. Since there is a patriarchal and royal attitude to family blood lines, ie only Aragon could be crowned king of Gondor; Galadriel would probably not be capable of gaining a realm through inheritance. I think she did it this way because she had no other choice. There was no time to assert her claim on any throne; with the constant wars with Morgoth; the great rulers of Fingolfin, Feanor (and his sons), Fingon, Gil Galad, and etc. She was not in line to receive any power, and would she even want that? To inherit a kingdom in the middle of a war with a valar? She is proud, confident, and originally in the beginning headstrong and foolish; but I don't think she was that foolish or arrogant. She saw what Feanor did and tried to learn from his lesson. The only time she could assert her authority was when the other great elves had vanished, and there were the silvan and sindar who needed guidance. She was able to use her charm, power, and wisdom and took over the disorganized elven Sindar and Silvan survivors. Lothlorien was never as great as when Lindon was in its glory, or the Elven realms of Beleriend, but it was one of the last elven realms in Middle Earth and with all that glory and power it entailed. She saw what war and power had brought her family and was never in the position to take it. If she had the opportunity to rule a realm early on, I think she would have taken it; but she most likely would have ended up dead just like her family and the other Noldor. She was doomed, but she escaped that doom by not getting any power herself until the ban was lifted, and she was still banned because she still desired power. I agree she was cunning, but only after learning from the mistakes of others; she was lucky in that she was never in a position to take power in the first age.
Muddle Wait, I love your take.
Galadriel is the quintessential example of women being beyond the comprehension of men. Even her creator couldn’t figure her out! 🤣 In seriousness though, I think Galadriel is not only an example of how Tolkien explored his own world, but also how over time he started to get more…sentimental for lack of a better word, like how Bill survives but all the ponies in The Hobbit die. Similarly he started turning Galadriel into this paragon, and I suspect it was partially his own Marian devotion at the back of that. But who knows. Galadriel is complicated lol.
I hope everything is going well for you and your family.
Love this “even her own creator couldn’t figure her out!” Yes! That’s the trick with stories when they start to take a life of their own!
You have a very engaging narration voice and I absolutely adore the depth and detail you bring for Galadriel's various quasincarnations. She has been in my top 3 favorite LOtR characters since long before the movies. Look forward to your future works!
Wow - - thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Lexi! That was one of my favorites! This is what happens when you are editing your work and realize that you have personified a Silmaril, in all its beauty, peril, and power. I find Galadriel to be a great counterpoint to Luthien. Luthien is best when she's on the go. Luthien goes on Twilight adventures with her betrothed and follows him to hell. She then puts the Devil to sleep, steals one of his Quest Items, and makes the gods weep so that she can have a life with her true love. Galadriel is all about defense. She is the Third Age scion of Melian, who guards a warded magical land in defiance of the current Dark Lord. Self imposed or not, Galadriel's continued vigilance and her endorsement of the union of Aragorn and Arwen, fulfills the plan of Eru that the Firstborn equip the Secondborn to inherit Arda, ere the Firstborn leave for their Home.
Excellent way to look at it! Both very powerful but in different, complementary ways. I'd even extend that lens to comparing Arwen and Eowyn. Obviously Eowyn takes a more active direct role, but Arwen is at least as influential, but in a different way.
I think you make a great point and I imagine that, had Luthien not chosen a mortal life, she would have become a great leader of the second and third ages. I think Sauron would have really feared her.
I have to wonder why Feanor didn’t just get some hair from Galadriel’s hairbrush rather than face repeated rejection.
Nothing dies in Valinor... not even hair follicles 😂shedding is unheard-of in the Blessed Realm
@@GirlNextGondor But shed hairs usually aren't from dying follicles, they're from follicles' natural growth cycle - that's why if left alone hair will usually extrude to a certain length and stop - each hair cuts off, falls out, then restarts. Moreover, wait... how does hair even _happen_ then? It's a big ol' extrusion the connected skeletons of dead cells. (I'm clearly taking this line of reasoning *much* too far. XD)
@@GirlNextGondor You mean, even my dog wouldn't shed there?
This man is asking the real questions
Because pride. Taking hair like that is creepy.
Hey GNG, thanks, that was great stuff. I think many are fascinated by the lady of the golden wood. I think in her creation Tolkien intended mystery and long history, to entice the reader, but he like us all became fascinated by her glittering allure. He had to know more and like a fan boy writing his own fiction gave many different characters,justifications and histories too her in that “fan fiction.” As ever your insights are well constructed, succinctly expressed and like the two trees illuminating. I would just like to point out in case you are unaware a fine, piece by other hands and minds inspired by this enigmatic elf. There is a song Galadriel by a seventies British Rock band Barclay James Harvest. There are unsurprisingly many versions of this, the original album version being probably the best. Thank you for what you do.
You just made my lazy Saturday night even better. Thank youuuu!
Would the real Galadriel please stand up.
🎶im the elf lady, yes im the elf lady...🎶🤬dammit, ya got me! Well played friend..
It's funny. I sometimes think we can take this TOO seriously, and there are people who do, but Tolkien treated it like it's " Real " history, and asks us to do the same. His writing, Besides it's wonderful amalgamation of existing mythology, also gives us an insight into the mind of a truly brilliant artist/scholar. 🤘😁🖖🇨🇦
True indeed.Remember what Tolkien said about those who criticised those of us who loved history and myth true 😢 or false -there are those who just rin but also those who do so througha longing for beauty and truth.
If Aragorn is the Arthur archetype, Galadriel is one part Guinevere and one part Morgan Le Fay.
Ah, Morgan... Another mighty, mysterious female character that has no shortage of contradictory stories attached to her.
Nah Guinevere cheated with Lancelot, she's more Morgan Le Fay for her mysterious witch of the woods appearance. And Arthur is the the archetype of the King
@@squaeman_2644 that depends highly on which version of the myth. I only mean that she is a lofty queen who chivalrous knights try to win the favor of.
Galadriel is like Morgan le Fay except she doesn't get to sail back and forth from the magic fairy island in the West 😭
Fascinating! I never did such a deep dive on Galadriel, well done.
Fantastic video. Thank you for all your hard work for your videos!
My main complaint with ROP Galadriel is that she's so damn short lol
Give that actor a box to stand on or something. Elf tower lady ought to be tall af
Elves in general should seem timeless or ageless because they’re immortal. In RoP they look like 20 year olds.
Galadriel definitely has Marian qualities, likely inspired by Tolkien’s Catholicism
Tolkien agreed in a letter that there was Marian inspiration behind Galadriel!
@@GirlNextGondor I didn’t know that! That’s so cool
🤮
The worst aspect of his writing is when his Romanist idolatry seeps into it.
A mortal arrives in Faerie bearing a terrible gift. The gift of choice. Who are you Galadriel? No more wishing and wondering the Elf Queen must decide.
This resonates. Wow!
As far as LOTR goes, I always assumed she was not brought up because Lorien is a hidden kingdom, spoken of only in whispers and legends. It's not like Rivendell which is basically a free hotel for travellers; they generally shoot you if you cross the border. Also one of the Three Rings is hidden there. Frodo is sternly rebuked by Aragorn when he mentions it and her outside of Lorien.
Damn. You just made me realise that Galadriel recreated Doriath. Or rather, it was a lesser shadow of Doriath because time can't progress so long as the elves are in Middle Earth.
@@jacobvardyif you think about it, Galadriel and Thranduil both tried to recreate the glory of Doriath in their respective realms. You could make a case for either of them being more successful in this endeavor, but likely the two of them were present in Doriath at the same time (Thrandy may have been just a kid though when Galadriel showed up) and knew about the impact it had on the rest of the Sindar in Middle Earth
Whatever we choose, we will all agree that rings of power never happened.
The writers' strike may spare us of Season Two.🤞
Fascinating figure. Tolkien till the end of his life changed her role in elder days and shifted her role and influence in rebellion along side her idea about what she want and did she get some kind of permission to leave Valinor.
It is always interesting to see how Tolkien's thoughts on characters and plot points (or 'history') changed over time. It gives hope to me as an aspiring writer to see that he (a genius) struggled to figure things out and to see that some of his ideas were worse than others etc.
However, I think there is also something to the work being 'solidified' by publication. In more mystical terms I might even say there is something incarnational about it. Even if the author continues to niggle and tweak and rethink, the published work has, in a certain sense, moved beyond the ethereal realm of the author's thoughts. It has, perhaps, gone from being a monologue in the author's mind, with himself, to being a conversation with other minds.
I don't wish to undermine the primary authority of the author's mind over his creation, but I suspect Tolkien would in some sense agree, that a creation, in order to ever achieve the reality the creator desires, must take on it's own life, and in some sense, become distinct from the mind of the creator.
PS. perhaps this will be a controversial opinion, but I think Galadriel has some of the worst portrayals in adaptions. I've always hated the over-the-top nonsense that Jackson did with her.
Ooh, I like that perspective! - and I think Tolkien had some sense of that too, which is contributed to his spending so much time making sure all the details of his invented setting worked together believably, and why he considered the published text 'sacred' in a way even if he later wished he could change parts of it to fit his later conceptions.
Aspects of the Jackson-Blanchett Galadriel worked for me in FotR, but in the Hobbit her portrayal started to veer into 'silly,' imo. I also really wish Jacksonian-Lorien was, y'know, a GOLDEN wood 😅
I like your take on creation. I think Tolkien would've agreed.👍
"We have fought the long defeat." That is undoubtedly one of the most hard-hitting lines ever written. It just... says so much. It captures "the Doom of the Elves" completely. It was always their lot to vanish from Middle Earth, by one path or another. I'm very glad Galadriel did so by sailing west rather than "fading" - for her to fade would have been tragic. And the fact that it took her all those thousands of years to be ready to accept her Doom says something about the power of her soul.
Thank you, Lexi! Great video!
Hit that like? No, I shall as one of Amazon disposition bind up my hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats and smash that like button!
Celegorm, Aredhel, and Artanis all having a like-button-smashing contest, Celegorm accidentally winning when he falls to last place, loses his temper, and starts smashing things in earnest....
Hahaha oh my gosh you're the best!
0:21 I already have something in my eyes, Lexi.
Already this video breathtakingly beautiful.
Thank you, Lexi
Confusing backstory aside, no one expresses Elven regret like Galadriel 😥
None of that explains why Galadriel looks like a drown, green glowing banshee from time to time 🤣
She gets it from her mother's side of the family 😂
Well, the Elessar is green.🤔
Certainly she must be YOU, must she not?
"Pack up the Mirror, Celly, they're onto us again...."
On the question of why, if Galadriel was the ruler of Eregion, would she allow Annatar to remain there, and for Celebrimbor to do a coup against her, I think it reminds me a lot of her brother in Nargothrond. Finrod is the King of Nargothrond, and yet the Feanorians are also there, and when Finrod leaves with Beren to fulfill his oath, they do a similar coup to gather power. It makes Celebrimbor a really interesting figure because he denounces his own father in this attempt, but then does the same thing to Galadriel in Eregion if we take that story line.
IIRC Celebrimbor's lineage was still somewhat in doubt when the 'coup' story was written, but that would just make it another case of Tolkien accidentally writing himself into thematic depth 😅made particularly poignant by Sauron's involvement in each case; Celebrimbor forcing Galadriel out of her first founded city and into the Hidden Kingdom that will endure longer whereas Finrod's expulsion drove him *back* to his old fortress; Celebrimbor's torment at Sauron's hands acting as a sort of referred payback for his father's treachery (and his continued silence about the location of the 3 in the face of said torment mirroring the fidelity of Finrod &co)... Sauron stripping Finrod of his disguise and Galadriel (possibly) doing the same to Sauron.... it's all very crunchy and savory, no less so for likely being accidental!
Absolutely agree.The Feanorians the Promethean "spirits of fire"were enormously powerful with elvish "magic".Corrupted as they were I think their powers of "seduction"inthe sense of ,just like their father and grandfather before being able to manipulate large groups of people-in other words either with her there Eregion was ripe and ready for their corruption by The Deceiver.
I would say Galadriel not wanting to go back to Valinor and She not being allowed to, are not nessesary two different things. it might be more like two sides of the same coin
Agreed! There seem to be 3 possibilities (all suggested at one point or another in the various writings):
1) she was allowed, but chose not to return
2) she wanted to but wasn't allowed
3) she was told she wasn't allowed (or wouldn't be allowed if she refused the chance offered after the war of wrath) and said she didn't care because she didn't want to come back anyway 😂
I disagree. They are entirely different things. Choosing not to return to Valinor is her choice, being banned is not.
@@johnfelger9134 in Galladriels case, that might be to simplistic.
@@MusikCassette No, it is exactly that simple. It is also important to note that Galadriel could have returned. By the 3rd Age they had all been granted the ability to return. She was choosing to remain, and it is likely she would have chosen to have remain as long as possible. The destruction of the One Ring and the failing of hers is the only reason she sent back.
You might be on to something.🤔
I couldn't find an axe, so I used my mouse to hit the like button. I hope it will suffice.
Improvisation is often necessary when defending the honor of elf-ladies 😂
It more than suffices; thank you!
280 likes, the final so far from me (went up to 282)
Another great video, I like your takes on the characters, always interesting and thought provoking
Will the real Galadriel please stand up.
Lexi! You are blessing us! I hope you're faring well
Come on now, we all know Gimli melted Galadriel's heart.
This is my new fav Tolkien nerd channel.
Note that the Elessar tale seems to predate 'Concerning'. It has Finrod for Finarfin, which CT changed to avoid confusion. Celebrimbor is the Celebrimbor of Gondolin variant, rather than the Celebrimbor of Feanorean, descent as he is made in the mid 1960's revision to LotR.
(Reconciliation mode): 'diminish and go into the West', alternatively could imply 'fade' and then her fea goes into the West.
It is also interesting to note that in the various 'ageing' schemes, Tolkien is consistent in asserting Galadriel to be 'young' ('20' in 'growth-years') at the time of the darkening of Valinor and subsequent Exile. The later 'growth-rates' to maturity (1 : 1, 3 : 1 and even the 12 : 1) make some of 'philosophical rather than historical' writing about her in Shibboleth incongruent.
All good points!
My big takeaway from the aging schemes was that as Tolkien made rebellion-era Galadriel young enough to, eg, allow her to have Celebrian in the early Second Age, Celeborn got comparatively older, leaving us with an early-20s-equivalent Galadriel falling for a 40something Celeborn as one possible scenario (that is, if I'm remembering it right).
I can't help but think of this when I read Galadriel's assertion (often disputed by readers) that Celeborn is wise. Maybe she just initially mistook his greater *maturity* for wisdom, and the impression stuck 😂
@@GirlNextGondor In that particular variant, Galadriel was '28' when she married Celeborn, who was '45'. In that variant Celeborn was a generation up from her. In the (later) variant where he is a grandson of Elmo (rather than son), while Tolkien does not give an age, I would suspect Celeborn would be the equivalent of not more than 35 (still older, as making the husband older than the wife is another consistent theme).
Hey mi lady I missed you and your voice ^^ good to see your vids again
I’ll be 60 this year. First read LOTR when I was 12, back in the Blessed Realm. So to speak. Galadriel was immediately my favorite and has remained so ever since. Anything and everything more I can find out about her is always welcome, so thank you.
Galadriel in part represents Tolkien's evolving view of women, as with many men of his generation, as the 20th Century progressed. She was his only major female character to be present across the entire history of Middle Earth, so she became a channel for his ideas or as a means of correcting mistakes it seems he felt he had made with LOTR, such as its relative lack of women.
Tolkien's world up until he had children and even after that, until the success of LOTR, was a boy's club. He was happily married, but he and his friends in academia were all men and his wife may have been the only adult woman he truly knew.
The final version of Galadriel, where Tolkien puts her on the level with Feanor in might and states that the history of the Eldar is the history of Galadriel, Feanor and Luthien is unsurprising to me, coming as it did in the early 1970s, after Tolkien had raised his female children, observed the feminist movement and spent decades interacting with female fans.
I been listening yo you at work lately. I think your kinda great. I tried to say that before, but i think i only managed to sound like a butthole. I guess tolkien and hopefully you are fond of second chances.
No worries man! 😁 I wasn't offended, sorry if I seemed brusque. Sometimes I get a little swamped by comments and have to get "efficient" in the replies. Glad you've been enjoying the videos!
Yes of course I enjoyed this synopsis... but I am a bit surprised you didn't venture more into Galadriel the Craft Master... 2nd only (possibly) to Feanor? which means there is a case to be made that perhaps she wasn't 2nd to Feanor... right? After all, just as Feanor had captured the light of the two trees in the silmarils, Galadriel was able to capture the light of Elendil (and his silmaril) in the phial she gave to Frodo. What other Elven craft masters were able to catch light? She fashioned Gandalf's staff when he returned as Gandalf the White, the soil and seed she gave Sam were definitely imbued with incredible (magical?) properties.. as was the Elven rope. She made that lembas bread... and it makes me wonder, just as Melian "lent" much of her Maiar power to Elwe Thingol, could she also have "lent" some of that power to Galadriel? It seems implied that she took Elwen under her wing and taught her much about crafting... because didn't she sew the Standard for Aragorn? Then... there is a question as to who actually reforged the shards of Narcil (sp?) ... knowledge long forgotten and perhaps only remembered by someone like Galadriel. Though rarely achieving fame in history, the impact of women is HUGE and often not noted... and Galadriel is very much the epitome of this phenomenon. I think other than the wizards... who came into their "human" forms very late, comparitively... Galadriel is the oldest character in the book (and Bombadil, of course). Even Glorfindel is probably younger than she is but if not, he's died once already and come back. There is SO MUCH MORE to Galadriel than most will put together. I feel like you KNOW this and shared it with us, but you've only just scratched the surface. Oh... and, yeah, I think that last account of how Galadriel and Celeborn met and were planning to return to middle earth even before the whole doom of the Noldor thing makes the most sense. If I have a choice - that's the one I'd go with. Meanwhile... I have to acknowledge the ambiguity/confusion about the rise of the elves. It wasn't an Adam and Eve and their offspring thing... it seems like Illuvatar made 3 sects of elves in the beginning... perhaps thousands of each... because they didn't seem to start having offspring until they got to Valinor/Aman. For years I was trying to see an Adam and Eve like common ancestor in the elves... and the hundreds or maybe thousands of years they would have lived in middle earth under the stars before embarking on their journey to the undying lands.
I think the evolution of Galadriel's personality over the Ages is one of the best parts of the whole story, even though there's not a whole lot of it in literal writing. But it's totally clear that she evolved from a "nobility hungry" (I don't quite want to say "power hungry") young woman into a lady of high wisdom. It's a fantastic journey. Even though I'm not at all 100% happy with Amazon's "Rings of Power," I do think it's shown that young and feisty side of Galadriel quite well.
Thanks, Lexi!
For me Galadriel is Tolkien's version of Aslan from the Narnia series... A physical representation of a divine being....
22:07 okay so the ship literally dumped everyone except Gandalf off at Eressea and dropped him off at Alqualonde before Cirdan turned around and went back one last time to wait for Sam and Celeborn? Except Elrond who was born in middle-Earth and never took part in the Kingslaying? and we know her brother Finrod eventually got to go back to Valinor once his short stay in the halls of Mandos was over after dying in the pit of Tol-in-Gaurhoth because the Silmarillion explicitly states he's hanging out with his dad Finarfin. This is maddening!!!! Honestly exile on a small island within site of your estranged family and friends has to be a punishment worse than exile in middle-Earth right?
As I age (I am now in my 40s), I realize that not every aspect of a story needs a backstory. In fact, learning the backstory of some characters removes the magical element, the aura of mystery around them, it reduces them to mondain people.
For me, the best version of Galadriel is in the 1978 Lord of the Rings movie.
is she not the last of the Children of Iluvatar left in middle-Earth who was alive during the time when the Two Trees were the only source of light in the world aside from Stars? Maybe Glorfindel though I don't know if it is expressly stated he was born before the First Age and I don't know if Cirdan was Sindarin or not.
You know I just now thought of the reality that the Ringbearers, Gimli and Legolas all sailed West but where did they eventually end up? Did they make it to Valinor or when they got to Tol Eressea Gandalf kicked them all off the boat while he got to finish the journey?
The way Tolkien writes is the way he wants readers to view his works: as a re-telling of stories written by the people who experienced it themselves. Therefore, it only makes sense that different accounts would paint a different pictures of events and especially the people who participated in them. Galadriel always stood out strongly for me, the way a beautiful woman you see but briefly stands out. You begin to make up stories about her, what she likes, what makes her furrow her brow, what she delights in doing, and maybe even what adventures you might embark upon together. Tolkien himself doesn't seem immune to this kind of speculative reverie, and the way different characters talk about Galadriel reflects this. She is their idealized symbol of all that is beautiful and good remaining in Middle Earth, that which they are willing to fight and sacrifice for.
I watch quite a few lore youtubers and you are, by far, the most motivational towards my writing. Thank you so much!
Seriously, this question has vexed me more than any other as I try to reconcile whats written in LOTR with everything else. I prefer the versions where she was more corrupted in the beginning. It seems like makes her arc more powerful and justifies her personal Ban thats made such a big deal of. I also like the idea of the elves of Eregion rebelling because we need more elven coups, not less.
Yes please to further Elven coups, and to Troubled Past Gally 😁
Unless we're to believe the behavior pf ther sons of Feanor in Nargothrond was a completely unique and freakish example of elven political intrigue. I think it makes sense that more of the Noldor would be arrogant enough to try their hand at seizing power, especially Noldor obsessed with shady
craftsmanship.@@GirlNextGondor
I guess when someone is 8,372 years old, they have time to try out different strategies and personas, adapt, and mature. It isn't surprising that there are many versions of Galadriel, if one takes only small snapshots of time to try to define a life long-lived.
Unlike Christopher Tolkien, who sees these "severe inconsistencies" as problems, maybe we should look upon those inconsistencies as actually being full of hope, in that they show that one can remake themselves and redeem themselves if they reflect on their lessons learned and, from those mistakes, attain wisdom, understanding, and compassion.
I think Tolkien wrote base Galadriel for the books.
And as we know back in his time he received tons of letters, there might have been many questions about Galadriel that made him think and rethink about the character to the point even not long before his passing he was still writing about her.
Very interesting video, too me her contradictory and mysterious past is very present in the different ways that fans seem to interpret her story.
In one fanfiction I’ve read she is very close to Feanor until the Kinslaying after which she decides to go to Beleriand to subtly oppose him.
In another fanfiction she and Celeborn meet and fall in love in Valinor, and she is very strongly opposed to Feanor from the get go.
Anyhow the varied ways in which her story and character was interpreted always confused me, until this video, so thank you for that.
If I ever get a daughter, there will be.
I am a massive fan of Tolkien but I find it counter to the rules of his world that the Three Elven Rings that were not made by Sauron or with his knowledge would cease to function after his defeat. The fact that they are worn by their Bearers while he exists and can still dominate the Nine despite not having the One is further proof of that line of thought. I know it fits the narrative, but I find it the only unfortunate instance of a blatant contrivance for the sake of narrative that I cannot overlook.
Brava for tackling what is probably the most convoluted and open-ended character historiography in JRRT’s universe. It’s all too easy to cherry pick the bits and bobs of what’s written about Galadriel into a reasonable narrative, but you’ve successfully avoided that trap.
Thank you for another insightful look into the Legendarium. Any day that I can view a Lexi video is a good one!
So glad you enjoyed it!
Cate Blanchette, IS the real Galadriel. Ask Jordan Peterson!
😊🎉
Thank you, relaxing and informative as always. I've been seeing a meme that admires Tolkien's world-building while bashing other writers for adding information much later. The author of the meme must know very little about Tolkien. If I've learnt anything from your channel, it's that Tolkien just couldn't stop fiddling with his lore.
maybe the real Galadriel are the simps we met along the way
her past dont matter bro!
*crys in sindarin simp*
I like your videos on LOTR lore and takes on characters. I actually learned some stuff I didn't know regarding Eowyn and Merry. I have to say that lately I have a great sorrow regarding LOTR though. When I read through the comments on any LOTR content, anywhere from half to two thirds of the comments are hate posting on Rings of Power. I despise being on the sidelines watching people be reactionary about it. It's almost a year later and people cannot help themselves but keep going. And it's ruining LOTR for me. I liked both the books, PJ trilogy and RoP. No take is automatically true or false because this is all escapist fantasy. I want to go to Middle-Earth to get away from the troubles of the modern day, but I don't want to be part of the fandom anymore if it means people gate keeping my escapist fantasy or stepping in someone's hate post at least once per day. The fighting just isn't worth it.
keep on keeping on
Thank you..
Lovely essay about this mysterious and beautiful character. Thanks for sharing this with we fellow Tolkien lovers.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
minute 5:59 you mentioned galadriel was made out in the composition in the Lord of the RIngs. but she already appeared in the hobbit? I could be wrong. Sorry
Maybe a product of me moving too quickly between in-universe timelines and the order in which Tolkien wrote things? To the best of my knowledge, when "The Hobbit" was composed (20s and 30s) Tolkien had not come up with the character of Galadriel and only started writing about that character in the 40s as he drafted LotR. After he finished LotR, he retconned Galadriel into the story of 'The Hobbit' by making her part of the group that drove Sauron out of Dol Guldur, something that is only referenced in the novel.
Thank you lexi . Pleasure as always
oh snap *looks at watch* its squad time!
🤣
This was really good. Thank you for the great content, best wishes to you and yours.
Thank you! So glad you enjoyed it 😁
@@GirlNextGondor you're most welcome.
RAD!!!!!!
You seem to carry on Tolkien's themes for lord of the rings youtube channels, females are few, but they are talented and great.
*witch king side eye intensifies*
One way to get more insight into Galadriel is from "The Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin, and to consider both "The Faerie Queen" and Morganan the Fey. Tolkien found himself involved with these themes because of his connection to the land, so his writings on it were as various and nebulous as the histories of that Great Lady herself among historical peoples.
Aiya Earandil Elenion Ancalima!
3:31 the look on Celeborn's face lol
Mon Dieu! Mon amour! Réveillez-vous! Un autre video de GirlNextGondor!
Wach auf, Baby!
What about the time she said there was a tempest in her?
On the one hand, the Galadriel leveraging Celebrimbor's crush on her + patronizing attitude towards the Galathrim in Lorien is typical of a powerful woman depicted in medieval texts, even in favourable terms (Brynhild from the Saga of the Völsungs comes to mind). On the other hand, it makes sense that a prideful Ñoldo like Galadriel would've had this attitude in her youth. Still, i can't help but stick with the version of the legendarium where Galadriel and Celeborn only served as advisors and protectors of Lorien, never seeking to just take over it when the opportunity comes. Maybe a reconciliation is that she grew out of her patronizing concern for Lorien and stuck only to defending, not lording over elves she perceived as less wise
Great video keep up the good work
This afternoon I went to gaze upon a 6 story tall, 15 ton Rubber Duck in the town of Crisfield. MD. It was hot & sticky. Got home, fed the cats, and watched your video. Thanks. It beats a giant Rubber Ducky any day. As for Galadriel - an evil woodland sorceress, a gentle & loving fairy godmother, a wise & powerful elf queen. She is all that & a lot of mystery.
excellent video
Great video!
Loved this! A wonderful summary of scattered information. Not easy to do 💕
It was not my first journey into the tangly fens of 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn'... but certainly one of the more memorable ones 😬
Glad you enjoyed it!
I always interpreted the discrepancy of "I passed over the mountains." and Celeborn being from Doriath and likely meeting galadriel there this way. They likely did meet, fall in love, and get married in Doriath but the war of wrath was basically a gigantic 40-year long dumpster fire and it's not inconceivable that they got separated in the chaos and found each other much later.
Definitely one of the most plausible explanations. While Celeborn's possible origins are many and varied, the balance *seems* to come down on the side of 'Doriathrin noble.'
@@GirlNextGondorThere's also such a potential story there. Two immortal lost loves trying to find each other after a continent exploded.
They supposedly crossed over the mountains before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.
This is the most interesting and insightful post I've seen about LOTR, not only from you but from the host of youtubers with LOTR channels. Galadriel captures the essence of the entire legendarium better than any other character, and I think all the ambiguity and mystery around her is a major reason for that. Well done.
Wow. Thank you for all the great work! I love your essays and all the exploration of Tolkien's different thoughts throughout the evolution of his writing.
This is so well researched. 👍