@MickeyAlla What I am getting at is that everything had happened so fast. A man had died. I would typically expect police to want to talk to everybody involved with production asap - i.e., the riggers to rule out foul play. You'd also expect police to want to speak to the fans who witnessed what the cameras did not pick up. And yes, the ring should have been ruled a no-go zone.
I've always wondered this, and I don't think it's anything to do with 'power'. If Metallica were playing a stage show and someone died on stage, not in the audience, but a band member on stage in the middle of the arena you can bet your bottom dollar the show would have been stopped. Regardless of how powerful and wealthy Metallica's promoter is (and I imagine they are), the only difference is that Metallica is usually the headliner. At Over the Edge there were matches that were on afterwards and Vince had this carnie 'the show must go on' mentality, which is why it carried on. In any event, the police should have been in that arena, clearing it out, and assessing a crime scene. The show should have stopped, an announcement in the arena should have been made about 'an incident'. People would have evacuated peacefully. A message should have been showed on screen for the viewers at home. Job done. Mcmahon is not a wholesome, pleasant individual which has come to light (again) with this Janelle Grant lawsuit.
No, the comparison would be a music festival or a show with a few bands playing back-to-back in one night. If there was a pyro accident or explosive effects went off too soon or a stage light fixture fell and the guitarist in one of the bands died, would the show go on? Let's assume there were still 2-3 more bands supposed to play afterwards. The guitarist didn't die until he was in the ambulance so the audience technically didn't see a death right then and there on stage. The saying is "the show must go on" for a reason. But would the rest of the show be cancelled? I don't know. Fatal accidents and deaths have occurred during live events and the show has gone on. It's not necessarily unheard of to do that. In fact, it's considered admirable in some cases and pays respects to the deceased by putting the art form and the audience first. Music, wrestling, theater, the circus, sports, live TV, etc are all done to bring joy and entertainment to fans. It's not necessarily about money or indifference in a tragic moment like that. They love what they do and they want the fans to be happy. Speaking of Metallica, Hetfield suffered a severe burn in a pyro accident back in the early 90s at a show and was immediately rushed to the hospital. Guns N Roses went on as planned and played. The show kept going even when Hetfield could've been permanently mutilated or even killed by what happened. Nobody debated about the ethics behind the choice to continue the show. They wanted to keep going for the fans.
@@ArtemisMac GET UP YOU DAMN BASTARD WUSS; HARDCORE CHAMPIONSHIP AT STAKE. - VKM scolds Shane's lifeless body taking an 80 foot freefall with VKM not quite grasping the reality of Shane's bionic meant elbow drop from skyscraper heights
@@CULT539 Just cause I watch don’t mean I think it was ok to continue the show after Owen did. Oh and by the way, I just started watching again after Vince stepped down cause I hated the product with him running the show, thank you!
in an Andre the Giant interview, he said he tries not to focus on the negatives. Just move forward and not think of it at all. Cause him and Andre had a falling out at the end. I would assume that's how he is with everything. So no I doubt he regrets it
@mikematthews3409 the insurance company 'paid' part of it Titan Sports paid the rest but said they were going to try and recoup the money by suing the manufacturers of the carabiner. McMahon doesn't regret Owen's death or the way he handled the whole situation or anything to do with the Martha Hart lawsuit.. the only thing he would regret would be any money that he had to pay out, being my point. He's all about the money. I'm not sure what him becoming a billionaire after the IPO has to do with anything except being a straw man argument. Have a great day
She didn't deserve a goddamn dime she single handedly made sure all the young fans never knew who owen was by keeping him from being show on wwf anymore
@@robt3298 Her husband and father of her kids died doing a stunt for the WWF. She lost the person she married to spend her life with. She deserved the money and if she chose not to let WWF use Owen's name and likeness, that's understandable as well.
@@ggaa111100Vince, a guy who famously doesn’t take vacations, doesn’t eat fancy food or have much social life outside of wrestling is all about the money? He never even spends it except on hoowahs. In his Playboy interview he said he was “a giver” in bed. I think he’s secretly a pay pig and got off on giving millions away to these girls. He’s a lot of things but I don’t think money ever played a part, he got more satisfaction from crushing his competitors like WCW than the extra money it gave him. He lives for competition not dollars.
The Kemper Arena should have been shut down the way a highway or road gets shut down after a fatal accident. All these years later it’s inconceivable how that show continued.
Agreed and I used to like him when he used to commentate but I had zero idea he was the piece of shit he is back then wrestling was great and something I loved this shit now is trash
I think what people are forgetting. Is we've seen this since. On Monday night football a man died on the field and was brought back by the EMT's. And the game got cancelled... Called right there and didn't finish. Didn't reschedule it and it had playoff ramifications. So why does pro wrestling HAVE to have the show go on? When a professional football with a LOT more money on the line cancels the games
@@BreakingNVain Damar Hamlin? No but they watched him get ambulance d out after a very long time with him laying on the field. EMT's rushed to Owen as well.
All due respect to JR and Conrad. Brothers, there is absolutely a right answer. It was that the show shouldn't have continued. Plain as day. I get it's a company and business never stops. But Owen was a human. He was a father and a husband. He didn't deserve that. His life ended in Vince McMahon's wrestling ring. I don't know for sure. But Owen " accidentally" fell in a show that's titled " Over The Edge". Come on brothers. Also, the fact that Vince had no remorse shows you McMahon's true character. I won't be watching this channel anymore. It doesn't matter if one subscriber leaves. I just had to leave my peace.
@@humblesmith1215 How is that soft brother. Vince McMahon has predatory behaviors and one of his employee died in his ring. Be it an accident or not. Yet he has no remorse about another human dying under his watch. It's pathetic and disgusting. Owen didn't deserve that. Don't get me wrong, I love JR and Conrad. But after talking about this subject and no one is calling out Vince for who he really is. Come on bro. Just wrong.
Okay, so what was the right answer? Tell the fans that he died immediately as soon as they find out? Or wait until the very end of the show right before they're heading out to their cars? Which one?
Crazy it continued, here he didn’t stop the event when Owen died but almost stopped the Street Fight between Shane and Kurt Angle after he got thrown into the glass and fell on his head.
How many of us quit being wrestling fans because of this? How many wrestlers left the business because of this tragedy? The real way Vince needed to handle this issue was to meet with and console with Owen's family privately. Maybe Conrad can do a podcast with Owen's family to get those answers. I wonder if there was any NDA...
It's odd that wrestlers were merely instructed to STAY AWAY from the corner of the ring where Owen fell and hit. Blood splattered. Potion of the ring caved in due to the fall. Christ ..
@@RobWill-b1f NONETHELESS basically instructing talent to proceed and stifle judgment and emotion; perform the event and process the tragedy at a later time (PTSD) as Jeff Jarrett claims he never really confronted nor computed the event. Compared to the other storylines Owen could have agreed to but too embarrassing to perform but it would have all saved his life
@@RobWill-b1f Or why ENOIGH Owen Hart didn't return because BLUE BLAZER flakes out. If Owen is so AGAINST Attitude Era then GO WITH IT . Owen beats Godfather for IC title and releases the Ho Train into decent respectful WORTHY WOMEN Intercontinental Champion Owen Hart with WORTHY WOMEN
At Over The Edge and the next night on Raw is Owen, Vince gave anybody who didn't want to work after the tragedy an option to not do so. Everybody did, likely feeling that it would give them a temporary distraction from what had taken place. I'm not absolving Vince, especially considering other repulsive details about him that have come to light, but the rest of the crew can take their share of responsibility/blame for carrying on.
I remember on the Memphis, TN radio station WDIA, the lead DJ, the late Bobby O'Jay had said on the air that he wasn't going to report the Memphis news because the Owen Hart news was more important & he even said that Vince should've handled his death a little bit better by stopping the show
According to Vince Russo, there were talks of doing a tribute to Owen at the start of Raw the next night and then carrying on with a normal show with the storylines progressing as usual. Russo said he said if that was the plan for that nights show he would leave as it needs to be a total tribute show in honour of Owen without any wrestling angles. Im not sure if i believe it 100% but it sounds plausible.
As much respect as there is for JR, he made somewhat of a cop out here. It's fair to say that there was no precedent to follow. That is fact. It was a difficult situation that no one anticipated would ever happen. However, this was the time to SET a precedent. Whatever was the "right thing" to do in this moment, out of basic human decency, & respect for someone who helped build your empire, the show should have been stopped. Just one man's opinion. It would have been a significant financial loss to refund his customers, but he lost millions with the XFL & WWF NY ventures, among others. He ended up paying his widow a handsome sum in the end, yet, it should have been much more what his family lost for the rest of their lives. A good man lost his life, & a family lost their loved one, because he was the victim of heinous decision-making , all because someone chose to compete with a rival company's stunt work/presentation, & purportedly for other reasons, namely pettiness. Just completely sad & horrific.
4:28 I agree with not telling the audience, there are kids present and you don’t want to give such horrible news like that. And considering it was the Time before smart phones you knew people would have to wait to get home and find out. It would have started a massive crying arena. We loved Owen Hart I hate that it happened to such a good guy
@bubbacalling That's because Owen didn't die in the ring. Owen was barely breathing when he was taken to the hospital. WWE had no idea that Owen died or was about to. WWE wasn't even notified until an hour after the accident happened and by that point the show had been going on for quite sometime. People always want to leave out the part where WWE wasn't notified of Owen's passing until an hour after the accident.
@@NightRanger-lz6tp I'd probably argue that they had 'no idea he was about to die.' When a man is having CPR done IN THE RING, it probably isn't looking good? Anyway it's very difficult, as usual, dealing with fanatical wrestling fans on youtube because they will do anything to defend their beloved product.
does anyone remember vinces comments to brian pillmans wife the night after he died? He asked her if she has any idea how she was going to support herself and their kids now that brian is gone!!
If there is a body cooling on the ground, _you absolutely stop the damn show._ Hearing the justifications after the fact is just insulting everyone’s intelligence.
Everybody blames Vince, but JR could've gone home, the talent could've refused to work, and the fans could've left the arena in protest. It's not like Vince had a gun to everyone's head. They stayed because they valued money and/or entertainment more than they valued their own morals and principles. Then, they used Vince as their excuse.
Exactly. I might take heat for this but this whole thing sounds like trying to reason with the money side of things. I don't think they meant to be malicious, but they were thinking of their pockets and excused it away with well we weren't sure what to do. I don't think a single person there, or watching at home, would've been upset or felt wronged if the show had stopped. To act like there's some mythical reason why we couldn't figure out what to do... only those with money to lose and refunds to give had that worry.
You do realize that nearly all of them have families to support, right? It's not as easy as you think it is to walk out and take a moral high ground like this, when you have a boss that would clearly just as soon disconnect you from your only way to support yourself or your family as even register that you're taking any kind of stand. If they had done any of those things, they, you and I, all know it wouldn't have done any good or accomplished anything.
@teruienages962 Had they stood together, the balance of power would've been on their side. Plus, WCW was still on top at that time. Who knows how that would've played out. But since JR values a check more than he values his morals and principals, he should STFU and thank Vince McMahon for moving Owen's dead body out of the way so he could continue making money. Because that's all that matters, right?.. Wrong.
JR is as morally corrupt as most of the men in this business. He has knowingly and repeatedly worked with child abusers, wife beaters, and worked for men who were guilty of the entire gambit of evil and corruption. This man would sell anything to anyone…He is lecherous….
If it were me. The show would go on. Lots were already in their seats and the rest were still arriving. I am not saying riots would occur but do think about what happen when Axel Rose and GnR walked off stage after James had to leave early cause of a mishap and the Metallica set was cut short.
@@adamrichman6105oh god no!!! It was reported that Vince wanted to stop the match between his son Shane and Kurt angle at the king of the ring match when Shane landed on his head 3 times. It was reported Vince wanted to stop it but never did
I thought what happened to Brian Pillmans earlier that day was announced to the crowd at the Bad Blood 1997 pay-per-view. According to people on the internet, it was mentioned to the television audience at around the third match.
@@davidnec571 I was there and I never heard it. The people around my section didn't know either. I got a call from my buddy halfway through the event who told me what happened. I just assumed the WWF didn't want to deflate the live audience
They always say the show must go on but that wasn’t said where the show was where someone died. The police should have made that decision for Vince regardless and investigate what happened. It’s insane that they didn’t.
It's not a hard decision. A man friggin died at work!! The not hard decision was for Vince making the decision. They were carting Owen by the wrestlers they were next. Horrible.
I think people would have understood. When Damar Hamlin collapsed and then was revived, the NFL made the smart call and ended the game. I didn’t see any complaints and the few people that probably did, were shut down.
In EVERY police jurisdiction in both Canada and the U.S. unexplained workplace deaths are immediately subject to police investigation. A proper police investigation would include preserving the scene and separating witnesses for interviews. I don't know how and I don't know who but someone from WWF and/or Kemper Arena was able to keep the police off the scene until after the show. This is a HUUUUGE irregularity. Ask ANY police officer if they allow the scenes of unexplained workplace deaths to continue to operate following the death before starting their investigation? It's unheard of. I've always believed someone from the WWF - likely Vince himself - convinced local cops that the show had to continue because cancelling it would end any goodwill the company had in Kansas City with fans and they may never be able to return - a phenomenon in the wrestling business known as killing the town. I believe the WWF lobbied the police to continue the show out of fear of killing the town. Still, there is NO EXCUSE for the police not stopping the show and preserving the scene.
Here's how I think Vince should have handled it: -He should have still went on with the show. -He should have afterwards openly expressed his regrets for making that decision, instead of trying to avoid the subject. This would take at least a little bit of the heat off him, on this particular subject.
@@Doomzdayxx no it’s a crime scene until the law determines that it was indeed an accident with no fault. That fact that you just said “I don’t know that for sure” is the reason why it’s considered one and not an “accident scene”
Mid game and a teammate drops dead. Not in a million years does that team want to continue playing a fun game!.... Vince was a total and utter prick that sad night.
Well, everybody has the Monday morning quarterback approach to this. For me, I can understand the rationale for continuing. Performers know the show must go on. That's something you hear with any production. I think the decision to go on was the option with the least amount of unknown variables. Option A, continuing, gave them more maneuvering room, more time to process and react. Still could have had a limited show, but it gave you some time. Show still could have been cancelled or postponed. Option B, stopping the show could lead to more difficult scenarios. How the crowd would react. How the talent would react. How the vendors (production, support, PPV, Consessions, etc). All unknowns. Maybe Vince could have called everybody together, explained the options, and asked for a vote. Then they could have had a moment for Vince to go out and address the crowd. Either announce an intermission or delay while they worked things out backstage. Emotionally, today, I can see postponing or cancelling. Rationally I can see why continuing, for any amount of time, gives more options and ability to process. I doubt there wasn't a single person there that night, behind the curtain, that wasn't affected or emotionally compromised. That's when bad decisions get made. I can only hope that those involved were sincere about their rationales and it wasn't a money based decision.
at the time, i was shocked that the show went on, wrestlers were being sent out to the ring as Owen's dead body passed them by - a truly heartless decision and totally understand why Martha doesnt want Owen in teh hall of fame - the scummiest decision Vince ever made
so when a football player has a heart attack in the middle of the field. Dies for like a minute... The EMT's bring him back... We're just supposed to keep playing football because well football players know the game must go on
If he had decided to cancelled the show and refund tickets. It would be an extreme financial hardship for the company. Far greater than any of us ordinary people could ever understand.
Like so many here, this tragedy will always be a devastating piece of my childhood. I have learned as I've become an adult, Owen truly was the great role model, nice guy I thought he was as a child.
I think Vince continuing the show wasn't the worst decision made during this tragedy. The fact that he had Owen doing the stunt in the first place is the part that should be scrutinized more
If you were responsible for paying millions of dollars out of pocket. I promise everyone of you would change your minds. You would have made the same decision as Vince. The show must go on no matter what happened.
It was tragic what happened to Owen. However, at the end of the day. Vince already had a lot of money invested in the show. It wasn't free getting all the people involved with the show to the area. It wouldn't have been free getting them all back home.
Sadly this isn’t just a WWF thing this is any business in general, businesses don’t just stop working cause one employee dies it’s a sad truth but it is the truth 😢
Imagine having a death on your entertainment show and the thing you want to send your fans home with is THAT death being the last thing they saw. Traumatize an entire arena full of people and send them home, thousands of people crying and driving or? Try to give them something positive to take home, so that the last thing they saw of you wasn't the death of a performer. Who knows if Vince was right. But he wasn't wrong.
Lots of babies in these comments virtue-signaling their little hearts out. It was an arena full of people watching a violent show. Would you send everyone in football stadium home if someone died? If they were paralyzed? It's happened and they kept playing. What if someone watching in the crowd died? Is their life any less important than a wrestlers? Should we send everyone home for that? It's so easy to blast Vince nowadays--doing so is a safe way to make yourself feel moral and superior. But it's lazy.
There's a ton of reasons to not respect Vincent but his handling of this situation is not one of them. If Owen was the professional I think he was He would have wanted the show to go on. Also stopping the show would have created even more chaos. It would have turned into a circus. You also have to realize that whatever happens, the ultimate loyalty is to the fans. The only thing I might have done was to announce it. Salute him with moments of silence and ringing of the bell. The balance of the show maybe should have been dedicated to Owens memory. Vince did the best he could at the time.
It was a nightmare for everyone involved, having a performer die during a live pay per view is a complete shit storm. It's so easy to armchair QB & second guess every decision made, Vince was in shock like everyone else & had to make a split second decision. When you're forced to make a split second decision, sometimes you make the right call & sometimes you make the wrong call.
JR is such a politician. What does he mean, "there is no right answer." Shane loved doing high risk moves. If it was his son he would have stopped the show. Better yet, it if was JR wife he would have bailed out on the show to see about her. The area was a potential crime scene that needed to be investigated instead of tampered with.
Looking at it, in Football (European), matches get stopped when a severe incident happens in a match. Everyone was in shock over the incident here, but I would've stopped the show, an employee died from a preventable stunt that shouldn't have happened. It's a shame what happened to arguably one of the nicest guys in wrestling.
You cancel the event and refund money for those who ask for it. Period. It's a character flaw to assume that others will grieve the same, and soldiering on is deplorable.
Its easy for everyone to say the show should have been stopped. Yall arent the ones that would have been responsible for paying all the costs related to the show.
The show ended up sucking too - I mean how can you perform knowing your friend and co worker is either dead or dying? Saving the Taker/Austin match for the next night would have been better. Austin and Taker would have time to get the wits about them and put on a great show.
Have to keep in mind, Owen WAS NOT dead yet! He wasn’t pronounced dead til after he was already gone from arena. I know it was unlikely he was gonna survive at that moment and prob looked dead, but he wasn’t. He still had a pulse, so I’m sure they were in shock and still thinking he can be saved perhaps?! Show going on really doesn’t matter at that point. Owen being saved is what mattered
I don't see all the people saying there was an easy right answer reaching into their wallets to write five figure checks for the wrestlers who would not have gotten paid. They're not W-2 Employees, their contract says if you dont work, you dont get paid
The wrong thing was done that night , the show should have stopped the moment owens death was confirmed , the fact vince sent guys and girls to the ring to continue the show baring in mind some of them just lost not only a colleague but a brother in many respects , just goes to show mcmahon is a piece of shit who only cares about money
This is only a tough decision because society at large, all around the world, loves and worships money. Vince is one of the worst offenders I'd imagine, though very few have been anywhere near the position to offend to the level he has and I believe very many would do as bad given the chance. The reality is, as has been repeated many times, if it was his own son the show would have ended and refunds delivered.
Even if Vince didn’t want to stop the show, the fault really lies upon the Kansas City PD. That ring and rafters were now a crime scene. The moment they found out that Owen was killed, they should have barged into the arena and force the show to cease. Everybody is at fault here, except for Owen and his family.
if vince mcmahon didn't have any second thoughts even after the fact, then his brain is busted , i do community productions and a death of any of the cast's family members has made me take pause and contemplate my own mortality and im only a handful of years away of 34. The show must go on has never meant *just keep going after the ambulance gets called*, it means *you dust yourself off after you get knocked down*
devils advocate here, When James Hetfield was burned in front of fans and axel refused to play directly after there was a massive riot. there could have been a massive riot and 12 children could have been stampeded it would have went from 1 death to multiple. If THAT had happened instead with the benefit of hindsight people would be saying to do exactly what vince did. you never know how fans would react.
The arena was a potential crime scene.
To think that the local PD didn't stop the show indicates how powerful Vince was back then.
@@italkedtobarzini4015 that's a good point
@italkedtobarzini4015 doesn't that also mean that the guy who wrestled after Owen died were technically tampering with a crime scene?
@MickeyAlla What I am getting at is that everything had happened so fast. A man had died. I would typically expect police to want to talk to everybody involved with production asap - i.e., the riggers to rule out foul play. You'd also expect police to want to speak to the fans who witnessed what the cameras did not pick up.
And yes, the ring should have been ruled a no-go zone.
I've always wondered this, and I don't think it's anything to do with 'power'. If Metallica were playing a stage show and someone died on stage, not in the audience, but a band member on stage in the middle of the arena you can bet your bottom dollar the show would have been stopped. Regardless of how powerful and wealthy Metallica's promoter is (and I imagine they are), the only difference is that Metallica is usually the headliner. At Over the Edge there were matches that were on afterwards and Vince had this carnie 'the show must go on' mentality, which is why it carried on.
In any event, the police should have been in that arena, clearing it out, and assessing a crime scene. The show should have stopped, an announcement in the arena should have been made about 'an incident'. People would have evacuated peacefully. A message should have been showed on screen for the viewers at home. Job done. Mcmahon is not a wholesome, pleasant individual which has come to light (again) with this Janelle Grant lawsuit.
No, the comparison would be a music festival or a show with a few bands playing back-to-back in one night. If there was a pyro accident or explosive effects went off too soon or a stage light fixture fell and the guitarist in one of the bands died, would the show go on? Let's assume there were still 2-3 more bands supposed to play afterwards. The guitarist didn't die until he was in the ambulance so the audience technically didn't see a death right then and there on stage. The saying is "the show must go on" for a reason. But would the rest of the show be cancelled?
I don't know. Fatal accidents and deaths have occurred during live events and the show has gone on. It's not necessarily unheard of to do that. In fact, it's considered admirable in some cases and pays respects to the deceased by putting the art form and the audience first. Music, wrestling, theater, the circus, sports, live TV, etc are all done to bring joy and entertainment to fans. It's not necessarily about money or indifference in a tragic moment like that. They love what they do and they want the fans to be happy.
Speaking of Metallica, Hetfield suffered a severe burn in a pyro accident back in the early 90s at a show and was immediately rushed to the hospital. Guns N Roses went on as planned and played. The show kept going even when Hetfield could've been permanently mutilated or even killed by what happened. Nobody debated about the ethics behind the choice to continue the show. They wanted to keep going for the fans.
"If it was Shane, he would have stopped the show" - Bret Hart
Bret said it best
@@ArtemisMac GET UP YOU DAMN BASTARD WUSS; HARDCORE CHAMPIONSHIP AT STAKE. - VKM scolds Shane's lifeless body taking an 80 foot freefall with VKM not quite grasping the reality of Shane's bionic meant elbow drop from skyscraper heights
Shane has a heart, unlike VKM.
@@kevincarter5775Bret meant if it was Shane who fell then Vince would have stopped the show.
Or would he? This is Vince we’re talking about….
Off the record was always 50% commercials, 30% landsberg cutting off his guests and 20% interview
The fact that he continued the show after that tragedy spoke volumes to me.
But you still watch his show for 25 years after?
@@CULT539 Just cause I watch don’t mean I think it was ok to continue the show after Owen did. Oh and by the way, I just started watching again after Vince stepped down cause I hated the product with him running the show, thank you!
I don't think Vince has time for "regret". As cold as that sounds thats how he lives. Ironically he should have alot..especially these days
Given the sh** he's currently in now? He better learn to care
in an Andre the Giant interview, he said he tries not to focus on the negatives. Just move forward and not think of it at all. Cause him and Andre had a falling out at the end. I would assume that's how he is with everything. So no I doubt he regrets it
@toma.4808
Why? He doesn't have to care or do anything.
yeah, they call it being a sociopath
@@toma.4808
Not regretting is not the same as not caring
The only thing McMahon regrets is having to pay Martha Hart 18 million bucks.
His insurance company payed all of that vince became a billionaire a few months later as wwf went public
@mikematthews3409 the insurance company 'paid' part of it Titan Sports paid the rest but said they were going to try and recoup the money by suing the manufacturers of the carabiner. McMahon doesn't regret Owen's death or the way he handled the whole situation or anything to do with the Martha Hart lawsuit.. the only thing he would regret would be any money that he had to pay out, being my point. He's all about the money. I'm not sure what him becoming a billionaire after the IPO has to do with anything except being a straw man argument. Have a great day
She didn't deserve a goddamn dime she single handedly made sure all the young fans never knew who owen was by keeping him from being show on wwf anymore
@@robt3298 Her husband and father of her kids died doing a stunt for the WWF. She lost the person she married to spend her life with. She deserved the money and if she chose not to let WWF use Owen's name and likeness, that's understandable as well.
@@ggaa111100Vince, a guy who famously doesn’t take vacations, doesn’t eat fancy food or have much social life outside of wrestling is all about the money? He never even spends it except on hoowahs. In his Playboy interview he said he was “a giver” in bed. I think he’s secretly a pay pig and got off on giving millions away to these girls. He’s a lot of things but I don’t think money ever played a part, he got more satisfaction from crushing his competitors like WCW than the extra money it gave him. He lives for competition not dollars.
A sociopath is incapable of having regrets.
Who’s a sociopath?
Your mom
The Kemper Arena should have been shut down the way a highway or road gets shut down after a fatal accident. All these years later it’s inconceivable how that show continued.
Vince is a piece of crap
Sky is blue
One of these two statements are true...and it's storming outside.
And the world keeps on going even when someone dies shocker right?
How long have you known Vince?
Yes, J.R., there was a right answer. It was to STOP THE DAMN SHOW. Stop making excuses for Vince!
💯
Without Mcmahon my childhood evenings would have been different. No WWF. Only WCW. That doesn't mean Mcmahon isn't a piece of shit.
Agreed and I used to like him when he used to commentate but I had zero idea he was the piece of shit he is back then wrestling was great and something I loved this shit now is trash
I think what people are forgetting. Is we've seen this since. On Monday night football a man died on the field and was brought back by the EMT's. And the game got cancelled... Called right there and didn't finish. Didn't reschedule it and it had playoff ramifications. So why does pro wrestling HAVE to have the show go on? When a professional football with a LOT more money on the line cancels the games
Did the entire crowd happen to know that the person died in the situation to which you're referring?
@@BreakingNVain Damar Hamlin? No but they watched him get ambulance d out after a very long time with him laying on the field. EMT's rushed to Owen as well.
@@BreakingNVain I would argue that yes they did. Emergency medical personnel were doing CPR right there on the field, that is a revival procedure
The police should have shut the show down and investigated the scene
He wasn’t dead at that moment tho!
@d-mo733 he died in the ring from internal bleeding
@@d-mo733 Yes he was.
You sound stupid. It won't that serious
That's the only right answer
All due respect to JR and Conrad. Brothers, there is absolutely a right answer. It was that the show shouldn't have continued. Plain as day. I get it's a company and business never stops. But Owen was a human. He was a father and a husband. He didn't deserve that. His life ended in Vince McMahon's wrestling ring. I don't know for sure. But Owen " accidentally" fell in a show that's titled " Over The Edge". Come on brothers. Also, the fact that Vince had no remorse shows you McMahon's true character. I won't be watching this channel anymore. It doesn't matter if one subscriber leaves. I just had to leave my peace.
You’re kinda acting soft aren’t you!?
@@humblesmith1215 How is that soft brother. Vince McMahon has predatory behaviors and one of his employee died in his ring. Be it an accident or not. Yet he has no remorse about another human dying under his watch. It's pathetic and disgusting. Owen didn't deserve that. Don't get me wrong, I love JR and Conrad. But after talking about this subject and no one is calling out Vince for who he really is. Come on bro. Just wrong.
@@humblesmith1215 you mean to shut down an event where there was a death so the police can investigate it? Ya I mean, that's so out there....
Okay, so what was the right answer? Tell the fans that he died immediately as soon as they find out? Or wait until the very end of the show right before they're heading out to their cars? Which one?
I mean the NFL called the game on monday night football and the EMT's saved the guy....
Crazy it continued, here he didn’t stop the event when Owen died but almost stopped the Street Fight between Shane and Kurt Angle after he got thrown into the glass and fell on his head.
Oh please! It was just a thought that went through his mind… he was never gonna stop the street fight!
@@humblesmith1215 but would he have stopped it had Shane died instead of Owen?
@@gnarlybgamingtbh he probably would not have stopped it 😂
@@gnarlybgamingWho knows?
@@ericahn1627 💯 he stops it if Shane had died in the ring. If Shane had missed his landing in say the Blackman street fight event is over
Of course he wouldn't. Because Vince only cares about money
What would stopping the show have done?
@@robertmartin6238I don’t know about you but usually in a workplace when somebody does doing there job, usually warrants an early finish
**their
@@robertmartin6238What would it have hurt to stop the show???
Vince: Money money money money money
There are 3 certanties in life: death, taxes and the fact that Vince McMahon is human garbage.
It’s easy to judge others but it’s a different animal when you’re actually in that seat.
@Master_of_sum I'm sure ol Robert has done way worse
Look in the mirror.
@@rickroberts7611 Nonsense. What are you even talking about.
How many of us quit being wrestling fans because of this?
How many wrestlers left the business because of this tragedy?
The real way Vince needed to handle this issue was to meet with and console with Owen's family privately. Maybe Conrad can do a podcast with Owen's family to get those answers. I wonder if there was any NDA...
I was obsessed and my passion for wrestling took a big hit.
It's odd that wrestlers were merely instructed to STAY AWAY from the corner of the ring where Owen fell and hit.
Blood splattered. Potion of the ring caved in due to the fall.
Christ ..
It wasn't Owen's blood if u watched Sunday night heat b4 the ppv the brood gave a blood bath in that same corner.
@@RobWill-b1f NONETHELESS basically instructing talent to proceed and stifle judgment and emotion; perform the event and process the tragedy at a later time (PTSD) as Jeff Jarrett claims he never really confronted nor computed the event. Compared to the other storylines Owen could have agreed to but too embarrassing to perform but it would have all saved his life
@dangxdc8348 til this day we will never the truth as too why the show wasn't stopped by Vince and most of the police . It's just a messed up situation
@RobWill-b1f Because Vince didn't want to refund the money. Simple, really. McMahon is a cheap ass and always has been.
@@RobWill-b1f Or why ENOIGH Owen Hart didn't return because BLUE BLAZER flakes out.
If Owen is so AGAINST Attitude Era then GO WITH IT .
Owen beats Godfather for IC title and releases the Ho Train into decent respectful WORTHY WOMEN
Intercontinental Champion
Owen Hart with WORTHY WOMEN
Probably, how much he regrets something is proportional to how much money he lost from it.
Damn...now that's a succinct observation.
(based on what I know about him as a lifelong WWE fan...)
At Over The Edge and the next night on Raw is Owen, Vince gave anybody who didn't want to work after the tragedy an option to not do so. Everybody did, likely feeling that it would give them a temporary distraction from what had taken place. I'm not absolving Vince, especially considering other repulsive details about him that have come to light, but the rest of the crew can take their share of responsibility/blame for carrying on.
I remember on the Memphis, TN radio station WDIA, the lead DJ, the late Bobby O'Jay had said on the air that he wasn't going to report the Memphis news because the Owen Hart news was more important & he even said that Vince should've handled his death a little bit better by stopping the show
The Raw is Owen thing was crass, tacky and pathetic
According to Vince Russo, there were talks of doing a tribute to Owen at the start of Raw the next night and then carrying on with a normal show with the storylines progressing as usual.
Russo said he said if that was the plan for that nights show he would leave as it needs to be a total tribute show in honour of Owen without any wrestling angles.
Im not sure if i believe it 100% but it sounds plausible.
As much respect as there is for JR, he made somewhat of a cop out here. It's fair to say that there was no precedent to follow. That is fact. It was a difficult situation that no one anticipated would ever happen. However, this was the time to SET a precedent. Whatever was the "right thing" to do in this moment, out of basic human decency, & respect for someone who helped build your empire, the show should have been stopped. Just one man's opinion. It would have been a significant financial loss to refund his customers, but he lost millions with the XFL & WWF NY ventures, among others. He ended up paying his widow a handsome sum in the end, yet, it should have been much more what his family lost for the rest of their lives. A good man lost his life, & a family lost their loved one, because he was the victim of heinous decision-making , all because someone chose to compete with a rival company's stunt work/presentation, & purportedly for other reasons, namely pettiness. Just completely sad & horrific.
what's odd is why the Police didn't shut the whole thing down. There was a death and it needs to be investigated. How do they not end the event
You didn't need anything else, that showed you all you needed to know about Vince.
The Mr McMahon character was a shoot.
Bingo
4:28 I agree with not telling the audience, there are kids present and you don’t want to give such horrible news like that. And considering it was the Time before smart phones you knew people would have to wait to get home and find out. It would have started a massive crying arena. We loved Owen Hart I hate that it happened to such a good guy
You don't need a precedent to know the right answer was to stop the show.
its the right call, thousands paid money to travel and enjoy the show. any ticket holders were free to leave. but they didnt care either. why stop it
@@possiblyinsane6995 the ticketholders weren't told that a man had died in the ring, they were very confused and carried on just watching a show.
@@bubbacalling cause he didnt die in the ring
@bubbacalling That's because Owen didn't die in the ring. Owen was barely breathing when he was taken to the hospital. WWE had no idea that Owen died or was about to. WWE wasn't even notified until an hour after the accident happened and by that point the show had been going on for quite sometime.
People always want to leave out the part where WWE wasn't notified of Owen's passing until an hour after the accident.
@@NightRanger-lz6tp I'd probably argue that they had 'no idea he was about to die.' When a man is having CPR done IN THE RING, it probably isn't looking good? Anyway it's very difficult, as usual, dealing with fanatical wrestling fans on youtube because they will do anything to defend their beloved product.
does anyone remember vinces comments to brian pillmans wife the night after he died? He asked her if she has any idea how she was going to support herself and their kids now that brian is gone!!
Ok and?
Is that bad?
What kind of a person says that the same day? And after all that pillman did for the product , cmon
If there is a body cooling on the ground, _you absolutely stop the damn show._ Hearing the justifications after the fact is just insulting everyone’s intelligence.
Everybody blames Vince, but JR could've gone home, the talent could've refused to work, and the fans could've left the arena in protest. It's not like Vince had a gun to everyone's head. They stayed because they valued money and/or entertainment more than they valued their own morals and principles. Then, they used Vince as their excuse.
Exactly. I might take heat for this but this whole thing sounds like trying to reason with the money side of things.
I don't think they meant to be malicious, but they were thinking of their pockets and excused it away with well we weren't sure what to do.
I don't think a single person there, or watching at home, would've been upset or felt wronged if the show had stopped. To act like there's some mythical reason why we couldn't figure out what to do... only those with money to lose and refunds to give had that worry.
You do realize that nearly all of them have families to support, right? It's not as easy as you think it is to walk out and take a moral high ground like this, when you have a boss that would clearly just as soon disconnect you from your only way to support yourself or your family as even register that you're taking any kind of stand. If they had done any of those things, they, you and I, all know it wouldn't have done any good or accomplished anything.
@teruienages962 Had they stood together, the balance of power would've been on their side. Plus, WCW was still on top at that time. Who knows how that would've played out. But since JR values a check more than he values his morals and principals, he should STFU and thank Vince McMahon for moving Owen's dead body out of the way so he could continue making money. Because that's all that matters, right?.. Wrong.
JR is as morally corrupt as most of the men in this business. He has knowingly and repeatedly worked with child abusers, wife beaters, and worked for men who were guilty of the entire gambit of evil and corruption. This man would sell anything to anyone…He is lecherous….
if JR went home he probably would have lost his job same with talent and the fans did not know he was died
Times have changed . Now a days they would stop the show because its a crime scene . They should have back then because of the very same fact
If it were me. The show would go on. Lots were already in their seats and the rest were still arriving. I am not saying riots would occur but do think about what happen when Axel Rose and GnR walked off stage after James had to leave early cause of a mishap and the Metallica set was cut short.
Michael was a legend for his time. He grilled everyone.
Off The Record clips are the best and I miss late 90's early 00' Sports talk show formats
The fact that the PPV is still there to watch on the WWE network shows he doesn't regret it.
If it was Stephanie or Shane lying on that ring.
Would Vince have stopped the show?
Sadly, no
Hell no
@@adamrichman6105oh god no!!! It was reported that Vince wanted to stop the match between his son Shane and Kurt angle at the king of the ring match when Shane landed on his head 3 times. It was reported Vince wanted to stop it but never did
No Chance In Hell!!! Hahaha you don’t know Vince if you even have to ask that question
That was an example that Bret Hart brought up to Vince McMahon during their meeting in Calgary after Owen's death.
One thing I took away was no matter how cool the wrestler is or was they kept working as well
They didn't announce Brian Pillman died to the crowd at Bad Blood either.
ya but he wasn't at the arena. He didnt' perform
I thought what happened to Brian Pillmans earlier that day was announced to the crowd at the Bad Blood 1997 pay-per-view. According to people on the internet, it was mentioned to the television audience at around the third match.
@@davidnec571 I was there and I never heard it. The people around my section didn't know either. I got a call from my buddy halfway through the event who told me what happened. I just assumed the WWF didn't want to deflate the live audience
@@rickwhyers6836 How did you have a cell phone in Oct 1997, were they even around? Apologies if they were
@@bubbacalling I had one but not everyone did. I paid 50 dollars a month for 500 minutes of talk time, lol
I was there at Kemper with my friends from hs, we thought they should of ended shoe
No you werent and no you didnt
Lol no you weren't
I can't believe they kept the shoe going! That shoe was DOA the second Owen was KIA.
Left or right shoe?
@@TL2354 Neither. Horse.
They always say the show must go on but that wasn’t said where the show was where someone died. The police should have made that decision for Vince regardless and investigate what happened. It’s insane that they didn’t.
6:50 Conrad literally reading a script totally ignoring that he was repeating word for word what JR just said himself like 3 times in a row.
J.R. is looking out for himself. He will never admit that continuing the wrestling event was the wrong thing to do.
It's not a hard decision. A man friggin died at work!! The not hard decision was for Vince making the decision. They were carting Owen by the wrestlers they were next. Horrible.
Do all factory workers get off because one person died? Because I guarantee you they don't stop being a baby
@@robt3298goofy you have no human sympathy
@@juniorgarcia1140 That still doesn't answer the question. The answer is no
@@juniorgarcia1140I saw a guys leg get blown off at work and we didn’t go home
@@TL2354 congrats to you ig
I think people would have understood. When Damar Hamlin collapsed and then was revived, the NFL made the smart call and ended the game. I didn’t see any complaints and the few people that probably did, were shut down.
In EVERY police jurisdiction in both Canada and the U.S. unexplained workplace deaths are immediately subject to police investigation. A proper police investigation would include preserving the scene and separating witnesses for interviews. I don't know how and I don't know who but someone from WWF and/or Kemper Arena was able to keep the police off the scene until after the show. This is a HUUUUGE irregularity. Ask ANY police officer if they allow the scenes of unexplained workplace deaths to continue to operate following the death before starting their investigation? It's unheard of. I've always believed someone from the WWF - likely Vince himself - convinced local cops that the show had to continue because cancelling it would end any goodwill the company had in Kansas City with fans and they may never be able to return - a phenomenon in the wrestling business known as killing the town. I believe the WWF lobbied the police to continue the show out of fear of killing the town. Still, there is NO EXCUSE for the police not stopping the show and preserving the scene.
I'm almost quite certain this will be in that newly announced Vince Netflix Documentary. How can Vince NOT feel guilty about Owen's death?
Here's how I think Vince should have handled it:
-He should have still went on with the show.
-He should have afterwards openly expressed his regrets for making that decision, instead of trying to avoid the subject.
This would take at least a little bit of the heat off him, on this particular subject.
It was a crime scene he handled it wrong once he ain’t stop the show.
@@ImGonnasayit I would say more like an accident scene. I'm assuming nobody pushed him off the ledge, though of course I don't know that for sure.
@@Doomzdayxx no it’s a crime scene until the law determines that it was indeed an accident with no fault. That fact that you just said “I don’t know that for sure” is the reason why it’s considered one and not an “accident scene”
Mid game and a teammate drops dead. Not in a million years does that team want to continue playing a fun game!.... Vince was a total and utter prick that sad night.
Happens all the time, both sides walk of the pitch after a word with the referee
You were there?
You were there 🤔
Where? Elaborate a bit, John.
Well, everybody has the Monday morning quarterback approach to this.
For me, I can understand the rationale for continuing. Performers know the show must go on. That's something you hear with any production. I think the decision to go on was the option with the least amount of unknown variables. Option A, continuing, gave them more maneuvering room, more time to process and react. Still could have had a limited show, but it gave you some time. Show still could have been cancelled or postponed. Option B, stopping the show could lead to more difficult scenarios. How the crowd would react. How the talent would react. How the vendors (production, support, PPV, Consessions, etc). All unknowns.
Maybe Vince could have called everybody together, explained the options, and asked for a vote. Then they could have had a moment for Vince to go out and address the crowd. Either announce an intermission or delay while they worked things out backstage.
Emotionally, today, I can see postponing or cancelling. Rationally I can see why continuing, for any amount of time, gives more options and ability to process.
I doubt there wasn't a single person there that night, behind the curtain, that wasn't affected or emotionally compromised. That's when bad decisions get made. I can only hope that those involved were sincere about their rationales and it wasn't a money based decision.
at the time, i was shocked that the show went on, wrestlers were being sent out to the ring as Owen's dead body passed them by - a truly heartless decision and totally understand why Martha doesnt want Owen in teh hall of fame - the scummiest decision Vince ever made
so when a football player has a heart attack in the middle of the field. Dies for like a minute... The EMT's bring him back... We're just supposed to keep playing football because well football players know the game must go on
If he had decided to cancelled the show and refund tickets. It would be an extreme financial hardship for the company. Far greater than any of us ordinary people could ever understand.
Wwe was on fire at this point. I doubt he wanted to refund everyone but it really wouldn’t have been that big of a deal.
His decision to continue might not be popular. However, it was a wise decision and best decision for the company. Nothing but respect for Vince.
There were various other costs that were factors too. Again, it wasn't free to use the arena for the show.
Keeping the show going really felt the most appropriate in the moment
Like so many here, this tragedy will always be a devastating piece of my childhood. I have learned as I've become an adult, Owen truly was the great role model, nice guy I thought he was as a child.
I think Vince continuing the show wasn't the worst decision made during this tragedy. The fact that he had Owen doing the stunt in the first place is the part that should be scrutinized more
If you were responsible for paying millions of dollars out of pocket. I promise everyone of you would change your minds. You would have made the same decision as Vince. The show must go on no matter what happened.
Vince made the only decision he could make. Anyone that says different has never been in his shoes.
It was tragic what happened to Owen. However, at the end of the day. Vince already had a lot of money invested in the show. It wasn't free getting all the people involved with the show to the area. It wouldn't have been free getting them all back home.
JR’s podcast would’ve been legendary if he had a different host than Conrad + if JR stopped being too polite.
Sadly this isn’t just a WWF thing this is any business in general, businesses don’t just stop working cause one employee dies it’s a sad truth but it is the truth 😢
In hindsight, they should’ve used a better rigging system not one that can release under pressure
Imagine having a death on your entertainment show and the thing you want to send your fans home with is THAT death being the last thing they saw. Traumatize an entire arena full of people and send them home, thousands of people crying and driving or? Try to give them something positive to take home, so that the last thing they saw of you wasn't the death of a performer.
Who knows if Vince was right. But he wasn't wrong.
Seems the only thing he regretted from my observation was not seemingly patching things up with Andre before he passed away.
I still have a hard time watching wrestling theses days, Owen was my favourite all time
Yet you still worked for him for years to come didn’t you JR?
Love JR for speaking on the truth
Lots of babies in these comments virtue-signaling their little hearts out. It was an arena full of people watching a violent show. Would you send everyone in football stadium home if someone died? If they were paralyzed? It's happened and they kept playing. What if someone watching in the crowd died? Is their life any less important than a wrestlers? Should we send everyone home for that? It's so easy to blast Vince nowadays--doing so is a safe way to make yourself feel moral and superior. But it's lazy.
There's a ton of reasons to not respect Vincent but his handling of this situation is not one of them. If Owen was the professional I think he was He would have wanted the show to go on. Also stopping the show would have created even more chaos. It would have turned into a circus. You also have to realize that whatever happens, the ultimate loyalty is to the fans. The only thing I might have done was to announce it. Salute him with moments of silence and ringing of the bell. The balance of the show maybe should have been dedicated to Owens memory. Vince did the best he could at the time.
Vince is a sociopath.
How long have you known Vince?
@@TL2354 Hi Vince. Nice to hear from you again. 💩 on anyone else’s head lately?
@@TL2354he is a public figure, Einstein
I don’t know how you could make people go out there and have a match after that happened or let people still watch after you knew he had died
It was a nightmare for everyone involved, having a performer die during a live pay per view is a complete shit storm. It's so easy to armchair QB & second guess every decision made, Vince was in shock like everyone else & had to make a split second decision. When you're forced to make a split second decision, sometimes you make the right call & sometimes you make the wrong call.
I dont why nobody refused to perform. Announcers included.
I believe that Vince kept the show going because he would've had to issue refunds if he stopped the show
If I died , I would want the show to go on.
JR is such a politician. What does he mean, "there is no right answer." Shane loved doing high risk moves. If it was his son he would have stopped the show. Better yet, it if was JR wife he would have bailed out on the show to see about her. The area was a potential crime scene that needed to be investigated instead of tampered with.
Don’t think you need something to draw from just human decency
JR is a bitter old man that did all Vince’s dirty work. Probably the most overrated commentator in pro wrestling history.
Looking at it, in Football (European), matches get stopped when a severe incident happens in a match.
Everyone was in shock over the incident here, but I would've stopped the show, an employee died from a preventable stunt that shouldn't have happened.
It's a shame what happened to arguably one of the nicest guys in wrestling.
You cancel the event and refund money for those who ask for it. Period. It's a character flaw to assume that others will grieve the same, and soldiering on is deplorable.
Its easy for everyone to say the show should have been stopped. Yall arent the ones that would have been responsible for paying all the costs related to the show.
This is not true. He didnt have to make a decision split second. You can delay the show and think about whats right.
I would like to hear what Jaime Dundee has ro say about all this.
Who?
The thing is it wasn't Vince choice once own died that place a crime scene and the police should have shut them down
The show ended up sucking too - I mean how can you perform knowing your friend and co worker is either dead or dying? Saving the Taker/Austin match for the next night would have been better. Austin and Taker would have time to get the wits about them and put on a great show.
Have to keep in mind, Owen WAS NOT dead yet! He wasn’t pronounced dead til after he was already gone from arena. I know it was unlikely he was gonna survive at that moment and prob looked dead, but he wasn’t. He still had a pulse, so I’m sure they were in shock and still thinking he can be saved perhaps?! Show going on really doesn’t matter at that point. Owen being saved is what mattered
It probably cost WWE a pretty penny to rent the arena. WWE wouldn't have gotten any of that money back.
No right answer? You stop the show. There doesn't have to be a precedent for that. These answers feel like they're coached by an attorney
I don't see all the people saying there was an easy right answer reaching into their wallets to write five figure checks for the wrestlers who would not have gotten paid.
They're not W-2 Employees, their contract says if you dont work, you dont get paid
I would stop the show and resume the next day and move raw to Tuesday that week
Vince McMahon knew it was going to happen and anyone who can't see that can not read emotions on people's faces.
Plain and simple if they would announce to the live crowd that Owen passed away. The fans would have been leaving by the hundreds
The wrong thing was done that night , the show should have stopped the moment owens death was confirmed , the fact vince sent guys and girls to the ring to continue the show baring in mind some of them just lost not only a colleague but a brother in many respects , just goes to show mcmahon is a piece of shit who only cares about money
This is only a tough decision because society at large, all around the world, loves and worships money. Vince is one of the worst offenders I'd imagine, though very few have been anywhere near the position to offend to the level he has and I believe very many would do as bad given the chance. The reality is, as has been repeated many times, if it was his own son the show would have ended and refunds delivered.
Even if Vince didn’t want to stop the show, the fault really lies upon the Kansas City PD. That ring and rafters were now a crime scene. The moment they found out that Owen was killed, they should have barged into the arena and force the show to cease. Everybody is at fault here, except for Owen and his family.
if vince mcmahon didn't have any second thoughts even after the fact, then his brain is busted , i do community productions and a death of any of the cast's family members has made me take pause and contemplate my own mortality and im only a handful of years away of 34. The show must go on has never meant *just keep going after the ambulance gets called*, it means *you dust yourself off after you get knocked down*
Owen tried to take out Vince golden goose Steve Austin. Owen knew what he was doing and it was a dirty move by Owen and Vince offed him!
JR has been the biggest asshole against Vince, in fact he’s turned on a lot of people in the business…very sad.
VINCE HAD REGRETS
When Benoit died Vince tried to do for Benoit what Bret said WWE should have done for Owen...then that backfired too
Crazy world
When Brandon Lee died in the crow, did we stop the movie?
devils advocate here,
When James Hetfield was burned in front of fans and axel refused to play directly after there was a massive riot.
there could have been a massive riot and 12 children could have been stampeded it would have went from 1 death to multiple.
If THAT had happened instead with the benefit of hindsight people would be saying to do exactly what vince did.
you never know how fans would react.
IF Y'ALL WATCH DARKSIDE OF THE VINCE SWITCH THE CLIP FOR OWEN TO FALL BUT HE PAYING FOR IT NOW