Come on.. Shiv should at least be D tier for Deleted from the game. It is so clear devs have no idea what to do with Shiv, at first they give a midrange hero everything he needed to be functioning in a team and now they just took everything away, his damage, his range, his resist, his rage.. they don't know what to do with him and just give his traits to yamatoes ult
@@ArmeeDex I agree shiv is in a weird spot and you can tell his kit is really hard to balance. If he gets buffed at all he just shoots to A+ tier then instantly gets nerfed again back to C tier. Tough scene :(
The main issue with tier lists is not only the obvious subjective nature of them but also the skill level of the player playing said character. A tier list for low ranking lobbies vs high ranking lobbies can look a lot different for many games, including Deadlock. It almost has to be clarified at the start what type of skill level gameplay the tier list is taking into account.
they need a cleanse item for 6200, debuff remover that can be used while cc’d, you can’t react to warpstone dynamo ult, or phantom strike mo. and if you try and predict it they will just wait it out
@@proxy4233 yeah dynamo and mo are too much of a problem atm. needs to be itemization changes that you can go(6200 item) that can get you out of these ults
Yeah I didn’t realize the tier list maker didn’t have it updated. I replied to someone else but mirage is A tier for me. Such a good kit.. can split and TP crossmap. Tornado is so strong especially in lane. Falls off late game but will always have value with toxic bullets
Thoughts on removing dynamos ability to buy refresher(item can still be bought and used by anyone else)? Would put dynamo in a much better spot to play against imo as you could play around his ult cd a lot more. With refresher he has ult 100% uptime and against a good dynamo it feels hopeless a lot of times
@@JohnSmith-ri2ed I don't think it would kill any hero. Just like the rest of the game it would be just a good itemization for the late game where almost every hero has CC and damages are high. Like how you have to track if enemy has any ethereal shift (and soul rebirth in the previous patches) you would have to track if enemy high value target has a Debuff Remover so you would make a plan to chain CC after he wastes it. It would just add a little more depth into the late game other than "I'll Phantom Strike/warp stone and CC the enemy carry, you just kill the target" I think you could make it an expensive item like Boundless Spirit where you build from "Debuff Reducer - Remover to Debuff Breaker" where you have to spend a pretty big extra soul to have that luxury of getting out of 1 stun in the late game with a long cooldown. Then it would be a viable option when you have enemies with hardcore CC like Dynamo that locks the whole game in the late game, but not a good option to spend your souls in a regular game. But again they removed Soul Rebirth so maybe they don't prefer people having second chances in the late game so idk.
The tier maker didn’t have it on there and I didn’t notice. I would have mirage in A tier. Got nerfed a ton but his kit is really powerful. Great map control and can always be in fights. Tornado also counters Abram’s charge and he’s extremely annoying to play against in lane.
@@jovannigonzalez3679 my main is ascendant 5 but I haven’t played on it in 10 days or so because matchmaking feels weird at the moment. What don’t you agree with?
Win rate means very little when looking at how powerful a character is. A lot of bad players will play Infernus and hurt his win percentage if that makes sense
It doesnt make sense. That could be said for every hero and yet abrams is at 53% and infernus at 46%. By your logic that would mean that bad players dont play abrams but do play infernus. Also, if wr is not indicative of hero strength, why did yamatos winrate jump by almost 9% after recent patch or why did shiv’s winrate drop by 8% after those giga nerfs? Did bad players stop playing yamato after buffs so his wr sky rocketed? Also, ranking abrams and seven in same tier is beyond WILD
@@idfkdyou can put seven at the bottom of b tier (I didn’t order them from best to worse in each tier) but I feel like he’s better than every character in c tier when factoring in the new changes to soul distribution post 8 minutes which increased everyone’s souls earned throughout the game. Also, I love laning with seven as Abram’s because he can shove them under their turret really fast + a reliable stun for me to shoulder charge off of. I’m probably biased
@@CamdenDack I said he could be between an and c depending on how much value you get from the ult.There are so many others characters I’d rather have on my squad
@@THumpYTIt sort of make sense, but it's also recalibrated by low mmr players not wanting to play heroes they suck with, so that factor is not as prevalent as you think
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Come on.. Shiv should at least be D tier for Deleted from the game. It is so clear devs have no idea what to do with Shiv, at first they give a midrange hero everything he needed to be functioning in a team and now they just took everything away, his damage, his range, his resist, his rage.. they don't know what to do with him and just give his traits to yamatoes ult
@@ArmeeDex I agree shiv is in a weird spot and you can tell his kit is really hard to balance. If he gets buffed at all he just shoots to A+ tier then instantly gets nerfed again back to C tier. Tough scene :(
In this tierlist:
Characters I can punch
Characters I cannot Punch
I did say I’m biased 😅
The main issue with tier lists is not only the obvious subjective nature of them but also the skill level of the player playing said character. A tier list for low ranking lobbies vs high ranking lobbies can look a lot different for many games, including Deadlock. It almost has to be clarified at the start what type of skill level gameplay the tier list is taking into account.
Tru. Sometimes the enemy team will build the bozo unethical items and that alone effects ranking drastically.
i was your warden fanboy on stream, those words hurt 🥲
I love being ivy support and buffing teammates so fun
they need a cleanse item for 6200, debuff remover that can be used while cc’d, you can’t react to warpstone dynamo ult, or phantom strike mo. and if you try and predict it they will just wait it out
@@proxy4233 yeah dynamo and mo are too much of a problem atm. needs to be itemization changes that you can go(6200 item) that can get you out of these ults
you're so right about dynamo... his DotA equivalent has a smalll cast time on the ult. the instant cast on dynamo feels so HIGHKEY bullshit
Can’t even play around his long CD timer either because they all just go refresher too lmao
You are missing Mirage
Yeah I didn’t realize the tier list maker didn’t have it updated. I replied to someone else but mirage is A tier for me. Such a good kit.. can split and TP crossmap. Tornado is so strong especially in lane. Falls off late game but will always have value with toxic bullets
@@THumpYT solid agree. I would add that he is A in a cooperative team but low B to C in an individualistic team.
Like League you should be able to use debuff remover when you are stunned I think.
That change alone would make him a lot more balanced imo
The heroes with stuns aren't the most picked/banned in competitive scene. it's already balanced. That one change would kill those heroes
@@JohnSmith-ri2edout of 22 chars at least 18 have high value cc…
Thoughts on removing dynamos ability to buy refresher(item can still be bought and used by anyone else)? Would put dynamo in a much better spot to play against imo as you could play around his ult cd a lot more. With refresher he has ult 100% uptime and against a good dynamo it feels hopeless a lot of times
@@JohnSmith-ri2ed I don't think it would kill any hero. Just like the rest of the game it would be just a good itemization for the late game where almost every hero has CC and damages are high. Like how you have to track if enemy has any ethereal shift (and soul rebirth in the previous patches) you would have to track if enemy high value target has a Debuff Remover so you would make a plan to chain CC after he wastes it. It would just add a little more depth into the late game other than "I'll Phantom Strike/warp stone and CC the enemy carry, you just kill the target"
I think you could make it an expensive item like Boundless Spirit where you build from "Debuff Reducer - Remover to Debuff Breaker" where you have to spend a pretty big extra soul to have that luxury of getting out of 1 stun in the late game with a long cooldown. Then it would be a viable option when you have enemies with hardcore CC like Dynamo that locks the whole game in the late game, but not a good option to spend your souls in a regular game.
But again they removed Soul Rebirth so maybe they don't prefer people having second chances in the late game so idk.
no mirage :(
The tier maker didn’t have it on there and I didn’t notice. I would have mirage in A tier. Got nerfed a ton but his kit is really powerful. Great map control and can always be in fights. Tornado also counters Abram’s charge and he’s extremely annoying to play against in lane.
What rank are you cause imma be surprised if it’s high cause this tier list Al t it
@@jovannigonzalez3679 my main is ascendant 5 but I haven’t played on it in 10 days or so because matchmaking feels weird at the moment. What don’t you agree with?
carbean
Bro really said infernus doesnt get touched by nerfs, meanwhile infernus nerfed to 46% wr
Wr is not reflective of character strength especially in a pre-release state
Win rate means very little when looking at how powerful a character is. A lot of bad players will play Infernus and hurt his win percentage if that makes sense
It doesnt make sense. That could be said for every hero and yet abrams is at 53% and infernus at 46%. By your logic that would mean that bad players dont play abrams but do play infernus. Also, if wr is not indicative of hero strength, why did yamatos winrate jump by almost 9% after recent patch or why did shiv’s winrate drop by 8% after those giga nerfs? Did bad players stop playing yamato after buffs so his wr sky rocketed? Also, ranking abrams and seven in same tier is beyond WILD
@@idfkdyou can put seven at the bottom of b tier (I didn’t order them from best to worse in each tier) but I feel like he’s better than every character in c tier when factoring in the new changes to soul distribution post 8 minutes which increased everyone’s souls earned throughout the game. Also, I love laning with seven as Abram’s because he can shove them under their turret really fast + a reliable stun for me to shoulder charge off of. I’m probably biased
@@THumpYT WR means nothing, Vindicta has one of the lowest win rates, while I personally have a WR of 70% with her.
Juicer
Bro put Warden in C wtf
@@CamdenDack I said he could be between an and c depending on how much value you get from the ult.There are so many others characters I’d rather have on my squad
please never make a tierlist again, putting wraith in S and warden in C should be illegal
Worst tier list I've ever seen.
Paradox and wraith both have a less than 50% winrate so it's bizarre to see them in everyone's S class in these tier lists.
Win rate doesn’t mean much when you’re going against other really good players. Win % is skewed by players at lower MMR if that makes sense
Winrate has nothing to do with how strong the character actually is
@@THumpYTIt sort of make sense, but it's also recalibrated by low mmr players not wanting to play heroes they suck with, so that factor is not as prevalent as you think
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