Karen Read Day 4 RECAP - Key Paramedic Has an Inconsistency | LAWYER EXPLAINS
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2024
- This is the Recap for Day 4 of the trial of MA v. Karen Read.
Primer Video on the Background of This Case: • Who REALLY Murdered Jo...
Full Karen Read Playlist: • Massachusetts v. Karen...
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Day 4: • LIVE: Karen Read Trial...
CONTEXT:
On the morning of January 29, 2022, John O'Keefe's body was found on a snow plow in front of the home of fellow police officer Brian Albert. The night before, he had gone to a bar with his girlfriend, Karen Read, as well as some friends and acquaintances, including Brian. Not long after, Karen was charged with John's murder, but her defense alleges that she is being framed by the group of people who met up at Brian's home after the bar closed. Trial begins Tuesday, April 16, 2024 with jury selection.
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#KarenRead #JusticeforJohnOKeefe #FreeKarenRead
My impression from the emts was that their memories were altered due to the reiteration effect (hearing the same thing multiple times from multiple people, even if false, makes it seem more accurate) Based on the testimony so far, I don’t believe them hearing ‘i hit him’ is a good indication of her guilt
I agree with you. These are natural discrepancies and uncertainties for me. And of course, defense is going to make a mountain out of any ant hill. I think some ppl mistake this for intentional dishonesty on the part of those testifying.
At the same time, no doubt, these testimonies alone arent even close enough to think about convicting any1.
Just a thought...... I lived In MA, just outside of Boston and north of Canton. When I moved there it was a HUGE culture shock for me going there from North Dallas, TX.
I called a hotline asking for some type of financial assistance programs that MA might have. I was a single mom and my son would be joining me in a month. The person at the hotline said they didn't really know of a number to help. So, I said: "How about a Suicide hotline?" I don't remember their response except that because I said: "suicide", they sent the cops out to pick me up and take me to the hospital on a psych eval. I was so angry. I had only been in the area for about a week and was on my third day at a NEW JOB.
They kept asking me why I wanted to kill myself etc. I kept telling them what had really happened and that they were going to make me lose my brand new job that I moved to the area for. (SO, IF I was going to kill myself, it was because of them!)
They made me take off all my clothes and give them to the hospital staff. Which they put in a locked locker. And they put a cop outside the door. I felt so humiliated and so angry. Finally after several hours they said they'd let me go as long as I gave them my parents phone number and let them call my parents to explain what was going on. Mind you I was in my mid-30s and was the mom of three children. It wasn't that I was some teenager that needed permission from my mom and dad. They called, my folks told them that if I said I was fine, then I was fine. Finally let me go.......right out into the cold, snowy parking lot of a hospital in a town I didn't live in. I had no wallet. So, no money for a cab. No cell phone nes at this time and no vehicle since they made me ride in an ambulance. That was not a fun day.
So, I don't take a whole lot of stock in being taken for a psych evaluation in MA. Seems like a really easy thing to happen to a person. :(
I'm from Mass and it's sooo true. Their bar for the section 12 law (which basically means they take you against your will for at least 48 hours typically) is very low.
If you say anything that could be considered harming yourself or someone else, ESPECIALLY using the "S" word you'll be in a locked hospital room with armed guards and stripped of all your clothing and belongings for at least a couple days.
And by law you can't get out until you prove to them that you are no longer a danger to yourself or someone else.
Which means you must stay calm, cool and collected.. before a doctor can deem you safe for release.
With that said.. if you are actually in need of some mental health assistance... They have a lot of great hospitals and resources available. So, if it happens to you, use the time to better yourself while you're there.
I've personally been section 12 about 6 times. There's no shame in getting help when you need it. And frankly, sometime the homeless use it as a way to get a warm place to sleep for a week or two.
I wish you all the best and I hope things are getting better for you 🙏
Sorry but if I heard that, I would take it to mean you wanted to off yourself too. You asked about a hotline meant for that reason. It's like using the B word at the airport. "I was just joking" is never gonna cut it.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that. I had nearly the exact same thing happen to me and I live in Rhode Island. I did get held on a 72 hour hold after waiting for a bed for 2 days. That experience was as close as I ever want to come to prison. It might’ve been worse! The gaslighting when you know you’re fine makes you even angrier and the cops or hospital staff misinterpret that as being “unstable” when they’re not understanding just how messed up it feels to BE in that situation.
When I saw that someone called a psych call on Karen, I knew it was someone trying to do something nefarious. Such as keep her out of the way while all the party attendees met at 34 Fairview and got their stories straight. Or to surreptitiously order a blood and urine test. Hmmmm.
The way everyone was acting like she was crazy for having strong emotions after a SUPER TRAUMATIC life changing event while they were all bizarrely calm baffles me. It’s like no one there understands human emotions, trauma or grief. To take a persons words as an admission, while they’re screaming all kinds of things and is in shock trying to come to terms with what she’s seeing, is so wrong. And yet everyone is ready to toss her in the chokey over allegedly saying a vague thing during a trauma response that could possibly implicate her, but not one person asked her to expand on that. It’s so bizarre!
This is true. MA resident here. So sorry this happened to you, but it absolutely tracks.
Wow! That’s crazy. I believe you. My uncle has a similar, though less traumatized c experience. I was there as a witness when they checked him into psych ward of hospital for simply saying after he’d had a stroke that he thought of ways of dying. He was in the hospital for a few weeks. In his case, it did him good. He got much-needed rest and attention.
The biggest thing that came out today was
McLaughlin saying the name Kevin Albert doesn't sound familiar to her. This women is a lifelong townie and EMT and doesn't know a Senior officer on a force of about 25? They also got her to say she doesn't know other specific members of the Albert family. This will come back later in the trial.
These EMT's never thought this was going to trial. The fire chiefs daughter was in the house that night. I think most of them just went along with the suggestion they heard Read saying "I hit him", thinking it will help out their boss and his friends. Why do you think they upped the charges? It was to force a plea and sweep all of this under the rug. They ( Canton PD, MSP, and Norfolk DA) got away with coving up the murder of Sandra Birchmore, of course they thought this could be swept under the rug as well.
This is why the police get a bad rap and are not trusted by the public.
And Kevin Albert called her to set up her interview with Michael Proctor. Kevin Albert wasn't supposed to be involved at all.
They haven't gotten away with covering up Sandra's murder. It's part of the FBI investigation, which brought them to the Karen Read case. It all started with Morrissey on down. Many, many heads are going to roll, including those 3 cops who groomed an underage Sandra and sex trafficked her.
I'm from a small town & find it odd she didn't remember the name of the officer who requested she speak to Proctor PD. How often does she get called to speak to PD? Not often I'd guess. Then how many Albertsons are in the area NC in small towns, if you hear a familiar surname you ALWAYS (almost reflexively) ask" OH are you related to my friend X?" The accumulation of weird memory lapses & documentation mistakes is adding up.
I totally agree! And the only EMT who didn’t hear her say that was the new guy, you know, the one with no personal connections to everyone else and possibly someone they didn’t have dirt on so zero motivation to trust him or pressure him. .
Katie McLaughlin has been friends with the Alberts daughter since High School but somehow doesn't know the names of any of the Albert family members.
Im not sure why this is odd, frankly. I know people could do the exact same thing to me with people I'm in pictures with years ago and have on my facebook friends list. Do you really know the families members names of everyone on your facebook friends list and every person you might be in pictures with from high school?
I sure as heck don't.
@@drewc771 look up the pictures....they look like pretty close friends!
That's just another lie from the peanut gallery of nut cases.
@@drewc771 it came out in court yesterday that she was standing next to her in a picture at a baby shower in 2021, a few months before this incident. Whatever their relationship she at the very least severely downplayed how recently she and Caitlin have socialized
@@missliss2581able I understand, all tho I think it was more than a few months.
As I've already said to several others tho, I don't believe she said anything about not seeing the other girl for any specific period of time, so I'm not sure where the lie or dishonesty is supposed to be.
Her testimony was that they were acquaintances, they did cross paths, had mutual friends but we're not close friends. I really don't see how this baby shower pic proves anything about that wrong.
And as far as the law goes, It's clearly not perjury.
Your concise summary of each day has been so great! I’ve had to turn off live coverage at times out of total boredom or frustration (omg, we all now know how to become a MA EMT?!?!?)
I was trying to find recaps sans a bunch of extraneous nonsense, but even Court TV had too many sides and chat w people outside the courthouse. I'm so glad I came here.
The fact that these people keep lying about knowing the family is what’s odd to me. If she just said she was friendly with a member of the family, it isn’t as incriminating. But the lying just makes me doubt everything
As it should. Hopefully, the jury is seeing all this.
Right? It would be way more believable for her to say “we have a lot of mutual friends but we’re not close” but she was so dodgy with her answers it’s obvious she’s down playing the relationship
@@siennahartle9069 The reason any person on a cross-examination pretty much ever seems "dodgy" is they're being asked very specific questions by a person who's primary job at that moment is to create some kind of "gotcha" moment. Of course you are going to be super careful with your answers. We all would.
I honestly don't understand why people really think just straight "lying". As far as, this girl, what did she "lie" about it terms of her relationship with the other girl? She said they're not close friends, but acquaintances that have mutual friends. What makes that inaccurate? The fact that they're in pictures from 2014 when they were high school and are facebook friends does not mean they're somehow close friends in 2022. You could play that game with literally anyone that went to high school and has a facebook account.
@@drewc771 It makes her look more suspicious to the jury because answering cautiously makes it seem like the witnesses/prosecution believes that a straight answer will hurt the case. My example phrasing is still cautious without appearing to obscure information. Have you actually watched the trial or just the recap because she didn’t just “seem” dodgy she was dodgy. It took multiple questions for her to admit to being acquaintances and by the way unless you know her personally you can’t say for sure if she lied or not.
There was a section with Becker where the defense was adamantly trying to clear up the statement about the 'time period' he considered when asking about 'have you had any drinks/drugs'. EDB got frustrated and wondered why they would argue over that, and my running theory based on some of what was said was that it's possible the defence is going to try and argue that Trooper Proctor had coached/massaged Becker's report the next day.
Where's the shoe!
AND
Where is there witness testimony or documentation that gives a record of steps taken to investigate where the shoe went?
Nobody checked the house to see if the shoe was there .
Of all the witnesses so far, Maclaughlin appears to me to be clearly evading, obfuscating and working to an agenda. And every "I don't know" was where a "Yes" response would benefit the defence. I found her to be shifty and not remotely impartial in how she responded to Mr Jackson. She's picked a side and that showed imo.
100%
If Karen Read had really said "I hit him" in the presence of one of the officers at the scene, why wasn't it treated as a crime scene from that point on? It's my understanding that it never was. I hope they really get into why that was this week because none of this makes any sense to me.
@goosejail great point! And why did no officer (or EMT take to LO) &ask KR, ok, you're saying you HIT him? WITH WHAT? HOW? WHEN? WHAT HAPPENED?/Why? I mean if a cop hears "I did this" (I hit him) it's a confession & they immediately are interviewed immediately (or cuffed/detained). Snowstorms don't preclude getting guilty party literally screaming I did it!!!!! Do not believe that or she'd be interviewed/arrested.
I think they spoke about her MS because it explains why she couldn’t take care of the kids. I have CNS damage like MS and it is hard to care for kids.
I also think she was calling him her husband potentially because she wanted to go see him in hospital and a girlfriend is not considered kin.
Yes, you never know when a flare up is coming.
My thinking about bringing up the MS is that they're going to point to medications she was taking to manage that condition. The defense may bring up that those medications were absent from her bloodwork. Or maybe they affect the way alcohol is metabolized in her body, so the way they tried to extrapolate her BAC from her bloodwork that morning to prove she was impaired the night before might not be accurate.
Memory is unreliable. I told my husband about a dream i had last month. He featured in it and said something to me in it which was very memorable. I described the dream in vivid detail to him. It was a strange dream. We told family about it as it was odd. On the 3rd retelling of it a few weeks later, my husband was telling the dream to his sister. And suddenly he was the one that had the dream when he was describing it. I was like what you on about, it was me that had the dream and i told you about it... He realised that was right and was fully convinced before that point he was the one that had had the dream. Memery is very maliable and unreliable
And memory gets LESS reliable (really suspect to remember MORE detail later)
This sounds exactly like my thoughts on what could’ve happened with Timothy Nuttall’s memory of the 911 call response.
I'll be really disappointed in the defense if they don't pounce on the possibility of the EMTs getting their memories muddled by McLaughlin's report. Specifically, many people recall Read yelling, "Is he dead?" None of the people who recall Read saying "I hit him" recall Read saying "Is he dead" which every other witness on scene heard. So the memory of these few evolving to the belief they heard "I hit him" seems possible.
Defense has been on point besides the discovery violation, so I am sure they will eventually highlight this rather than leaving it for the jury to infer.
It want a discovering violation. Per rule 14 if being used to perjur a witness it doesn't need to be disclosed with discovery. And it was clear that if she would have said I know her and hung out with her and not I went to school with a girl with that name . They would not of needed the photos. She was clearly obvuscating the fact she is friends with her.
@@theanchorandcrown1061but WHY ?
@nickiabbott5060 if she was open about her friendship instead of not telling the whole truth as you swore to do you lied and if you lied the implication is you are hiding something. And the defense should be allowed to show the jury she is lying about something as simple as who you are friends with the how believable is the rest of her testimony.
@nickiabbott5060 and that's all those pictures are proof of. That she lied about her connection. So there would have been no other reason to put them in as evidence therefore not needed in doscovery
"the memory of these few evolving to the belief they heard "I hit him" seems possible."
Yes. Seem to gave been "Evolving" beyond the point where I would give them barely any weight as to what reality was.
I have not seen one single piece of evidence to prove that Karen Read ended O'Keefe's life. She's still got my initial presumption of innocence intact. That's how I'd vote if the trial ended today and I was on the jury.
Yeah, they spent a whole week (!) to only establish that Karen said "I hit him" and they even failed to make that clear. I hope they have a banger lined up, else this whole trial is a waste of time and money.
I showed my husband pictures of John O'Keefe's injuries from the autopsy report, and without knowing anything about the case, he deadass said it looked like John had gotten into a fight.
I definitely didn't think there was enough damage to the back of her car to have come from striking a grown man.
As of this point in the trial, I'm leaning towards John being in an altercation with someone and then possibly striking the back of his head as he fell into something. Did anyone check the fire hydrant for his DNA?
@@goosejailIt doesn’t even make sense that her tail light was shattered by hitting a person. I’ve personally broken my headlight by brushing too close to the tailpipe of a truck, but I can’t figure out striking a person would break the light in that way unless the victim had some sharp piece of metal on him
@goosejail I told my husband & he was so confused how this got to trial - have to agree.
The trial just started a few days ago. Long way to go.
Of course they haven't proven her guilty beyond reasonable doubt at this point.
Your re-caps are EXCELLENT! I've been checking here for them constantly since I'm not able to watch most of the trial. Canton has that "small town" vibe & especially if you combine growing up & going to high school there, someone you've traveled & partied with from your graduating class, whose family members are also in law enforcement in your same town, who are accused of a cover-up, McLaughlin is well connected to all these conspirators. And now- reading in one of the comments here that the "FIRE CHIEF's daughter was in the house that night", this is one of those conspiracy theories that is sounding more & more plausible the more testimony I hear. Karen Read will be acquitted.
Her graduating class had 213 students .
@@Patsanford220. That’s very small. I definitely believe she’s lying. Hope the jury sees thru her testimony.
@@jillruben8924agreed! I grew up a couple towns to the south, a smaller one (Norton) and we had 121 in my graduating class. I knew everyone in town and I never really felt at home there since we lived in the outskirts of town in the woods. The big townies all lived close together, specifically one development where the homes were very close together. Others were generations-long townies that were basically Kings of Town. Often on the Select Board.
Needless to say, this case has reminded me so mulch of growing up in Norton and the townie culture of Canton feels so familiar to me because I lived it. I feel most of the small suburban towns around the Boston area/outer suburbs in SE mass share this culture.
I moved to a seaside town in East Bay RI in 2006 and have moved around the state a number of times but came back here because it’s a great community. Moving here was a breath of fresh air compared to the judgemental, small town close minded mentality I struggled with my whole life til then. It also highlighted to me how my hometown never FELT like a town. There wasn’t a walkable downtown or any true town pride or friendly community celebrations. All of which we have where I live now.
I joke that this town is Plrasantville. It’s just so damn PLEASANT! The residents love living here and take pride in the community traditions and lifestyle. There’s a laid back, accepting vibe, a beautiful bike path, I can walk to the post office and all the stores downtown right from my door and it’s less than a 1/4 mile. I know we have townies here, but they don’t rule the town like in mass.
It’s so crazy now the cultures of RI towns vs Mass can be so different despite the proximity to each other. Canton’s culture, I feel , is pretty specific to the 508 region as a whole.
@@Patsanford220 That's small enough where everyone knows each other, especially after 4 years. Mine had almost 500.
Thank you for the recaps! I have not been able to follow the live streams so these still let me follow the trail closely.
Same. THANK YOU Alyte!!!!
Double same!!
Thank you so much for your coverage!!!! I’m loving it and super glad to have you guiding us. Especially with no audible objection basis.
I wonder how this female paramedic is going to do working and living in this twin going forward with the massive support for KR. She was obviously lying or omitting
Where are the clothes that were removed from John, and where all did they go? Why did the 911 caller act like there was an unresponsive stranger found, when she knew exactly who it was? I have so many unanswered questions!
It's normal for the first responders to be told that the call is a "type of injury/illness male/female/child", tho I'm not sure why the 911 dispatcher wouldn't have taken down the patient's name, etc and sent that along to EMS if the caller knew it. I'm not sure what their system is like, so this could be totally innocent, or could reflect the caller not giving the info
The DA "accidentally" destroyed the clothes
Honestly, I have already been trained to wait for the defense to disprove the testimony or show suspicious behavior of the witness instead of actually taking them at their word. I am already suspicious of everything they say because all the witnesses have been inconsistent and double down on their testimony or on their insitence that they are unaware of the existence of a conflict of interest.
They're all lying. And getting caught.
@InLieuTube She meant she's being trained to wait BY THE EXPERIENCE: bc each witness either changes their testimony when faced with evidence OR becomes surly & suddenly forgetful. THAT trains an observant court watcher to expect the witness to be impeached. It's a PATTERN by now.
Same. Definite pattern of state witness impeachment.
Also so much sudden amnesia during cross after recalling everything in vivid detail to the prosecutor on direct.”I can’t/don’t recall” is just code for pleading the 5th
Caitlin and Katie were also on the high school track team together and the teammates were very close
I'm convinced one the photos they have of Katie is at the Albert's house at a pool party they had there. Caitlin is on the defense witness list. Just watch what's coming. This defense team knows exactly what they're doing. What a SH*T show for the prosecution.
There’s no way that the prosecution didn’t know about Katie being friends with Caitlyn Albert and Albert’s brother spoke to her regarding her interview with Proctor. This is all sus to me.
Everyone of them have had a different story!!!
According to EDB, the defense is not required to divulge evidence when it pertains to impeaching a witness. Is this correct? I'm sensing this Judge is being particularly rigid with the defense overall.
No side bars called by Bev when the prosecition has the floor?
@patrickdrew4891 it varies by state and I think MA does make the defense disclose more than other states, but it should still have exceptions.
@@annem7806I think part of that is that Lally has homecourt advantage, he tries cases in front of her and knows where she draws the lines with hearsay and speculation. Also I think it's the defense strategy to let Lally ramble until everyone is annoyed with him. The judge said she was talking to both sides but we all know who was dragging things out and getting too repetitive.
Thanks for the recaps, somehow I can't really keep up otherwise this time
Thank you to whomever gifted me a membership 👍🏻🙏🏻
Assuming "I hit him." with what ? A hammer ? A baseball bat ? Her purse ? Her shoe ? I have not heard any paramedic ask "You hit him with what ?" Wouldn't that be a percipient question given it may assist the paramedics in determining injuries and therefor treating them ?
Wow.. great recap! I haven't been able to watch the last couple days and this was hugely helpful and informative.
Loved your breakdown, tone, delivery and concise nature of the video! Looking forward to the next one!
I enjoyed your concise and clear discussion on my first visit to your channel. I will look forward to watching as this interesting trial continues and hopefully in the future.
The consistency (or inconsistency) of their testimonies is either the truth or they got together and decided what to say. And the last paramedic can’t seem to remember anything, how does she do her job? At the very least I remember a few photos and where I was from 25 years ago.
In my opinion, this Judge seems to be actively trying to put herself into the crosshairs of an appeals court should the defendant be found guilty. The Judge has appeared purposely biased towards the prosecution since day 1 and seems to be actively trying to hamper the defenses case. Especially in her strange objection sustaining during cross.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that..
and her sighinh and breathing into the mic is just unbearable.
@@phobos258 she getting on my nerves with her huffing and puffing in the mic..
If I were the defence I'd ask for a side bar every time she denied an objection so it was on the record why..
The fact she isn't allowing the grounds for objections to be stated for the record, the fact that she injects herself whenever the prosecution doesn't object to forms of questioning, the fact that she blatantly violated Karen's constitutional rights by not allowing the photos of Katie into evidence - using the disclosure rule even though they don't have to disclose evidence to be used for impeachment... all of this is grounds for appeal. Not to mention some of the pre-trial motion rulings she made against the defense, including that bogus blood test. If by some ungodly stroke of bad luck Karen is found guilty of anything, this will be overturned on appeal no doubt. And I bet her charges will be dropped. If not, a real judge will sit on the second trial and she will be found not guilty. Massive lawsuit coming after that. This will not end well for DAs office, Canton police and State police. Heads will roll. Can't wait for the FBI investigation to be over ... we'll all be playing soccer with multiple heads rolling.
What also caught my attention is her different use of words when the prosecutor asks her a question vs. the defense. Especially when they ask for a sidebar. It's a small thing but it's odd because she rarely deviates.
Well it's abundantly clear that the young lady had perjured of herself and then to have the judge not to allow the photos into evidence when it became clear that she perjure herself, seriously leaves me a questioning the judges integrity and intelligence???, the jury needs to know the young lady lied and continues that lie
What lie? How did she perjure herself?
Just found these recaps... love them! Ty legalbytes!
She wouldn’t even guess a time frame for the photos. she said she didn’t remember if/when she owned that SWIMSUIT.
And they are holding beers in one of the photos by the beach which (at least if they are willing to post on social media) suggest this was a few years after high school so they can't claim "yeah we went to school together but haven't spoken since)
In the last 48 hours since Katie McLaughlin clearly lied under oath, dozens of pictures have surfaced showing Katie and Caitlin Albert socializing together, pictures that seem to span from roughly 2011-2021, including one at a baby shower in June 2021, 6 months before this incident took place. This is a lifelong friend of Caitlin Albert who grew up in Canton, basically a BFF.
Thank you so much for your recaps! 😊
So this chick is just stating as of today that she knows thats her friends house and as of today she learned her friends fathers name. Such a liar.
Thank you for the recap!
Thank you SO MUCH for your recaps of this!!!! So appreciate your hard work because I have NO interest in watching the full trial day in and day out. So thank you 🙏 great editing/highlighting/engaging. Thank you!
Just found your channel. Thanks for updating. Great channel.😊
Excellent recap!
Your recaps are 🔥
Great recap!❤
You give the perfect recaps!
As far as Karen Read being drunk, well yeah, but her cop boyfriend was also drunk and he allowed her to get behind the wheel. Probably all those cops who went out that night were also drunk and probably drove a vehicle. We all know cops drink and get behind the wheel all the time. If O'Keefe was acting responsibly he would have gotten a ride home for himself and Karen.
They didnt go home. She drove across syreet to Alberts house.
I believe that anyone under the influence,are unable to make a logical decision, let alone having the ability to make a call for a ride ,what happened to their friends at the bars
Somebody must of known that they were too drunk to be driving together
What ever happened to Friends don’t let friends drive ?
The issues I have with the prosecution saying they have never seen the pictures of Katie and Katelyn, is they are prosecuting a journalist for witness intimidation as a result of his reporting on these 3rd parties. They have poured through his reporting and these photos were released in a story he wrote last year. I just don’t believe that they weren’t aware of these pictures.
“I think my testimony has been quite consistent” what? I would think an honest person would say something more like “my testimony has been honest/truthful”
Great recap thank you ❤
The constant water drinking of John O'Keefe's sister-in-law is so obnoxious.
Just started following you do a great job. Just wanted to tell you that I think you really lay out everything in a professional manner and you deserve a lot of credit for that.. nice job…!
Prosecution looks so shady. How did this case make it to trial??
corruption. that's how
@@nellyvieira9496 Chris Albert is friends with the DA Michael Morrisey
I’m not a Massachusetts lawyer, or even an American one, for that matter, but I don’t understand why the judge didn’t let the photos in. As I read Rule 14, the defense is only required to make pretrial disclosure of material it “intends to use at trial”.
There’d have been no need to use the photos if the witness hadn’t (arguably) fibbed. Does the defense really need to disclose everything it might use to impeach a witness *if* they lie about something?
I also think it was kinda dumb to let him ask the questions at all if he couldn’t use the photos. Jackson ended up kind of trolling by describing the photos in front of the jury. Silly!
I have MS. You can go for long periods of time (years/decades) without MS causing any issues. People with MS can live long lives with proper management.
Let’s not forget the prosecution dragged forever to provide crucial information to the defense. I.e.
The autopsy, returning Karen’s phone and her car!
Those photos have been all over the internet and Turtle Boy has posted them. The state police had custody of his computer for months.
It’s not a complete nothing burger but I’m ready for the spicy testimony! Love your quick coverage 🌹
We definitely need to move from the paramedics, police and firefighters its getting tiresome. I've made my mind up she never said I hit him, let's move on. How they all don't know what the previously said on notes and previous testimonials and it's all changed now.
Lally has weeks left. It's all about doing his level best to hide and confuse facts.
Yesterday he did a really good job of it. He took a woman who was shown a picture of herself inside 34 Fairview and she denied not only knowing the people but being inside there too.
That takes some really good coaching. People mock Lally but unfortunately as crooked prosecutors go, he's pretty damn good. Not that he could do it without the judge's help.
Who knows way more about this case then people could imagine. Think how crazy it was the judge knew what the defense was bringing up and was just as quick to stop them as the prosecutor.
The last time I saw a judge and prosecutor this well coordinated. They later had to confess to the bar they were living together.
5:27 - 5:34 Looks like "I hit him." is now off the table as an admission or credible claim.
The prosecution seems to be dragging this out. We saw the judge directing him to move on at one point. Some of the witnesses said some interesting things but then it gets buried by other testimony that seems irrelevant.
Where is the shoe
Likely in the cement filled pool along w Chloe & jacket. Albert's Canton PD bro.
With the missing belt
@legalbytes buy why do you agree with the judges ruling on the photos. You agree with her decision but why? Looking to understand based on what other lawyers have said….since it was used for impeachment. I thought it was an exception to the discovery rule
💯
I thought evidence used to prove impeachment didn’t have to be disclosed prior
I doubt the defense forgot to submit photos. I'm pretty sure they wanted to prevent
" explanation" making by the paramedic. No running start! Knowing they could describe the photos, which they did .
The judge denied submission of the photos.
I'm actually puzzled by the inadmissibility due to not giving it to the prosecution. In Canada the right to silence means defence never produces their evidence in advance unless it relates to prior sexual history or they are relying on alibi, third party suspect, or expert evidence because the prosecution has to be allowed an opportunity to verify or rebut that evidence. Otherwise the prosecution knows nothing about the defence case and admissibility is strictly governed by relevance and prejudicial vs probative effect. It's wild that the defence would have to produce these photos in advance in a trial where we already have concerns about bias and collusion and it seems like the witnesses are in the know about what they have to "explain" in advance. I used to be a prosecutor and more than once defence utterly surprised me with an unknown witness or photos involving my victim or other witnesses in the case and the only arguments heard were about the relevance and potential prejudice.
Totally unrelated: I love how your cat loves to go into that small box on the desk and give him/herself a good washing... Sorry... I'm just crazy about them :)
Great cat story!! 👍
❗❗❗. BODY--CAMERAS FOR ALL--RESPONDERS .. PERIOD .. NO MORE OF THIS "SHE--SAID -- HE--SAID CRAP" ..❗❗❗
Thank you! Humans are not robots!
Small town resident here, I think there's a cover up for a likely fight that resulted in JO going outside after & the residents thought he went home & someone woke at 3 -4 (ti.e of deleted google search) & saw a shape outside on lawn- ppl get stupid when afraid. I think the Albertsons figured KR cld plead to involuntarily manslaughter & avoid possibly cop loosing career-but KR did not go quietly & fought back- therefore putting herself in line for upped charges (pressuring her more to drop it) but she didn't & it just hot out of hand of PD side to the point it got atten of feds. Common situation, the cover-up is worse than crime (drunk guys fight & 1 leaves tbey think).
This is to say, drunk ppl fighting usually ends up ok unless weather or water are involved!
You made a great point. I don’t believe she hit her boyfriend with the car.
I feel like the difference between the defendant telling the paramedic in response to her question "I hit him", compared to her turning to a friend right beside her and saying that in response to the paramedic's question seems negligible - especially if at the time she was still hysterical. The pressure the defence put on the paramedic to have her agree that this was a major inconsistency actually made it feel like less of a big deal, and almost felt like someone trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
In my opinion, McLaughlin did not come off as giving honest responses. It seemed defiant and didn’t bode well for the prosecution.
I don't think it matters when the defense got the photos and the fact that they would have gone to impeachment of a witness are fair game for the defense.. However Auntie Bev is going to run her courtroom the way she wants and it's not big enough to trigger a mistrial or appellate issues.. however again..a bunch of things like this may
Just found your channel.
I thought that the defense was not required to hand over things beforehand and that the issue was that AJ did not lay a foundation for admitting the photos.
I think they should have come in because it was used for impeachment, therefore it’s something that the defense didn’t plan on using unless they needed to do so, this not subject to disclosure requirements as this layman understands it.
@TheSharpie that's my lay understanding as well. I'm not sure LB is correct here, but I'm also NAL, so maybe I missed something?
You are both right - if a wit lies, either side is entitled to impeach the witness. Lally knew she was going to lie, but he also knew Judge Jabba would deny Karen’s right to present otherwise admissible impeachment evidence.
You are correct. Otherwise pros. could have dropped or coached her as a witness.
Love the recap. I’m keeping an open mind but as of Day 4, the defense has done an effective job of inserting doubt into my mind. I think the MS comment was to nullify the “I can’t raise the children alone” statement Karen made. The prosecutor’s questions are too long and meander, he often loses the witness. It’s hard to follow him. Whereas the defense is animated and direct although he does sometimes go over old ground to get the answer he wants.
Can’t wait to see Proctor on the stand!! Thx
This girl thinks she’s smarter than the room and above reproach
The thing is….personally I don’t think there’s a lot of difference between “did I hit him” and “I hit him” as statements made by someone freaking out that a loved one is seriously injured. If she said “is that my boyfriend” AND “I hit him”, it’s IMO not an admission, she’s not saying “I hit him but I thought he was ok so I left” or “he was threatening me so I had to hit him to get away”. People blame themselves when they’re processing trauma. If she knew she hit him, reversed into the other car to break the tail light further, pretended not to know where he was then asked if it was him when she knew it was, why would she then say “I hit him.”
I do think it’s odd how obviously close she reversed to the other car in the security footage but equally could she have known the level at which the back of both cars would hit to break it more after the fact?
I feel so bad for the two children oh my god. So much loss.
She admits understand that her testimony evolved. Then later on on the stand, she says that she never said that her testimony evolved. She's lying on the stand about what she said on the stand earlier.
Why are there scratch marks on John O’Keefe’s arm?
The missing dog Chloe.
Interested to hear the experts on both sides explain those scratches on the victims arm
The prosecution maybe didn't had those photos, because apparently Caitlin works for the AG investigation team. Just a thought 🤷♀️
does the judge live in canton?
She was definitely grasping. Regardless, I don't see KR driving in reverse at the speeds theorized in a snow storm and hit JOk
I can't stop watching the cat. 🙂
Some of the first responders who testified have a look of guilt upon their faces. I’m not saying all of them, but they sure are not confident about what really took place on this particular incident.
Thx LB😊. The prosecution seems to just want to push forward, not looking into “ bad” facts. Noteable - trooper Proctor has not been called by the prosecution. As an aside- Mr. Lally uses the words “ kind of/ sort of” repeatedly in his direct. It comes off IMO as imprecise. Thoughts?
9:23 our memory is built for survival. Not accuracy.
Section 12 stuck out to me when the one witness stated that he didn't agree with it but that they basically had to take her in because the officers had already written it up.
I honestly wonder if the real reason for the Section 12 was to get blood and urine from Karen without having to obtain a warrant or asking her. They obviously didn't keep her at the hospital so it must have been obvious during the psych assessment, just like it was to the witness that transported her, that she didn't meet the threshold for a Section 12 and she wasn't a danger to herself.
Ick this makes it an even deeper level of gross. I didn’t think of this but I could see how other police might. Like police in the house.
Would it be a strategy that defense didn’t want the prosecution to know they had those pics ? Although it does seem the whole internet did see them
Yes but that's why following the rules of discovery is so important.
Defense is not required to share evidence of impeachment during discovery.
Alot of the paramedics testmony seems rehearsed. Not natural responses. I'm no expert of course but that's what my heart is telling me. Maybe a bit defensive ❓.
IFIWasaJuror - i'd assume McLaughlin pictures not mentioned on direct meant prosecution didn't know before cross... can only guess at why can't see em... everything about the Section 12 - good for a defense, infers dirty local first responders even before dirty cops are brought up.... I lived in Framingham for a year, 37 yo... suburban Boston was bunch of tight knit neighborhoods, everybody knew everybody in high school, could lie for friends and neighbors, not just friends... the Albert name already sticks out, (2nd degree murder charge on top of manslaughter crushed assumption of honest fair play prosecutor)
You missed 3 key pieces of testimony. Whitley testified he's good friends with K Robertson...one of the women at the scene. Becker testified that what Karen said inside the ambulance was "Could I have hit him", not "I hit him". On cross, he admitted that in his report to Proctor he stated Karen said she had not done drugs, but had drank the night before, even though he did not smell alcohol on her. This proves she could not have drank 9 drinks the night before. Impossible he would not have smelled alcohol even if she'd chugged a bottle of mouth wash. Also, the reason they brought up the MS is because Whitley made a huge deal about her saying she couldn't take care of the children. Becker testified that what she actually said was she can't take care of the children by herself. Hence the MS testimony they needed to bring forth. With MS, she would NOT be able to care for the children by herself. All the subtleties they will make clear as the case goes on.
I think this is missing the fact that she "can't take care of the children" because she has no legal claim to them. It would take many many hoops if she even wanted to foster them so "I can't take care of the children is grief over the loss of the kids as well as her boyfriend"
this case could be over if they take DNA from the clothes he was wearing and the amount of snow from the ring cam at johns house when karen came home from leaving john at the party
I believe the prosecution did not prepare for the direct with Katie Mclaughlin
Do you it will matter to the jury though that defense has poked holes. They still heard that Read said she hit him.
Hi!
Do you think the defense presented enough foundation for those photos? Like who took them, when, where? None of that was demonstrated, so I believed her when she said she thought they were old pictures, since no one said they weren’t. And I can believe someone during high school years poses for pictures with many people that aren’t necessarily close friends of them. I didn’t see/heard any evidence that they were close friends
...as malleable memories can be.....” YESSSS ! Especially under huge stress.....
Would love to ask KR what her “memory” was of that night…..
Watching each person's description, it's interesting all the little bits of information that arise, liked that about the Multiple Sclerosis & psychiatric stuff - listening to David Aronberg, got one little tidbit out of him - Bryan Albert had said on that night, "I hope she thinks of committing suicide.".......I think Bryan Albert did batter John O'Keefe, he's thought, "Nobody will suspect me" as he plonked the body in a possibly-hit-by-a-car position in front of the house.....& thru sheer unbelievability of the truth, Read's exploded with a multitude of I hit him, I hit him, I hit hims. Anyway, loved your summary, Alyte!!
I'm guessing his cocktail, drunk, birthday son has a hand in it.
Perhaps the definitions of the word friend have changed.
Cannot stand the defence guy - he is horrid. His demeanour is awful and he’s too cocky!!
I hate that the vacation photos weren’t able to be admitted. Even as a prosecutor, you have to admit that this looks sus. The CW prosecutor is not interested in truth or justice, he is only interested in winning.