🌙 fantasy worldbuilding pt. 3: culture, identity, and language

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  • Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024

Комментарии • 48

  • @CaitlinAsche
    @CaitlinAsche Год назад +64

    The timing of this video was insane for me haha. I'm currently in the worldbuilding stage for a new project and creating a world inspired by real-world cultures. One of those cultures included being Filipino culture. A few days ago I had a discussion with some Filipino friends of mine who will be my sensitivity readers. They gave me a list of things they want to see represented, things to research, etc. They have permission to check me throughout the entire process as I want to do it right. Hopefully involving sensitivity readers in the prep stage and the revision stage will prevent that. Thanks for talking about such an important topic.

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +21

      This amount of due diligence is really admirable, I love the idea of involving multiple sensitivity readers and consultants in the earlier stages! Happy writing!

  • @soapy6
    @soapy6 Год назад +65

    “everyone is capable of fucking up” this is exactly how i feel when i see coho write female characters lol

  • @IngridFerreiraL
    @IngridFerreiraL Год назад +26

    I read outlander which is a fantasy based on reality, and the linguistic matter is very well worked on as important traits of the characters. Jaime, who is Scottish, whenever he is angry or surprised, swears in Gaelic, which is his mother tongue, prays in Latin because he is Catholic, speaks several languages ​​because he went to université in Paris. Fergus, a Frenchman who is very proud of his culture, is constantly speaking in French, teaching his children French as their first language, while Claire speaks French fluently because she is well educated, but is English and does not speak her husband's Gaelic. I am writing a book that is not fantasy, but takes place in a fictional city, with many linguistic traits that reflect the political separation of the city (it became an independent city) that is not very common in Latin America. The video topic came at the right time to help guide me through this story.

  • @idoesntlikepeople
    @idoesntlikepeople Год назад +26

    I really thankful for this video since most writers I've seen mess up a lot of cultures or have huge stereotypes. Especially many people making a book of certain group of people but basing it off of a single country, instead of the several countries of the people.
    I'm also glad that people are writing and helping others write better representation in books. And hopefully see good representation for a lot of Asians since,
    On the note of good representation for some east Asian books, I actually want to recommend a book called iron widow. It's definitely not Japanese or Korean but it's written by a Chinese author and take place in ancient China. And includes string female characters. I personally think the book is wonderful.

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +6

      Thank you for watching! It definitely is tricky in speculative fiction, because it's a delicate balance between 'anything is possible in scifi and fantasy' and the understanding that fiction must still exist in the context of the real world, and might have real impact.
      I've heard wonderful things about Iron Widow, thank you for the recommendation!

  • @hwchen39
    @hwchen39 Год назад +18

    In total agreement with you about the diaspora/own voices YA books coming out nowadays. I read a lot of East Asian-inspired fantasy and I think a big problem is that the East Asian elements like culture, language, history, etc. feel like an aesthetic more than integral to the theme/heart of the story which in turn makes it feel like a western fantasy that just has a few eastern elements thrown in to make it unique. For example (this is such a nitpicky example), but there was one book I was reading where there where the setting was pseudo pre-modern Chinese/Japanese inspired and the dragons were called "reptiles" which is not how they would have been thought of in East Asia at all. In pre-modern Chinese and Japanese culture, there was a completely different conception of the ways in which the animal kingdom related to one another because dragons were in the same category as fish in that they were categorized as "scaly beasts." To be fair, I think I'm a lot more sensitive to these things than the average reader because I studied East Asian culture and history in school and work with it in my job, but things like that can really take you out of the story. While I don't think all fantasy books need to necessarily be based on historical things, I do think it helps for them to have an internal logic that has been well-developed, and doing research on the actual cultures/historical time periods you're basing things on does help with that.

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +11

      Yeah this trend is quite troubling to me tbh, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed it... I think it's also a matter of books published in the West/America usually being marketed and catered to a white audience. Those audience members won't necessarily notice these issues, and so they continue to get a pass.
      Your point about internal logic is so good! I think that's another huge part of maintaining suspension of disbelief!

  • @Amaiguri
    @Amaiguri Год назад +10

    As a creator of 24ish conlangs, lemme +1 that no one gives a damn about your conlangs and they will roll your eyes when you use them, but linguists will EAT THEM UP and anyone who sticks around long enough will adore your level of detail XD It's rough out here
    Also, this video was great! This was my second video of yours but I already think I wanna subscribe. Keep up the good work!

  • @AdamFishkin
    @AdamFishkin Год назад +6

    Something that makes ME jump for joy (as someone who specializes in comedy) is when writers represent a culture through in-jokes. Monty Python's Life of Brian is the example that springs to mind: Roman appropriation of Hebrew architecture; Latin grammar; the "upside" of empires; Judean radicals thwarting themselves with division; the merchant class controlling prices through haggling; the fact that crucifixions and stoning were a widespread reality of public life.

    • @americafy9195
      @americafy9195 Год назад

      "Roman appropriation of Hebrew architecture", excuse me ?

  • @Lilas.Duveteux
    @Lilas.Duveteux 10 месяцев назад +5

    So, the way I solved this was to invent a world with sort of a European inspired setting, but because of all the fantasy races, the way technology developped is quite different. However, my elves and dwarves...They are quite culturally distinct from any human culture, and all similarities are purely coincidental.
    My Drows are...special, culturally. Many cultures were originally matriarcal, but they moved to a patriarcal culture as an adaptation to persecution. Even after hiding and the persecution is done with, they prefer to keep it that way...just to be safe. Most elves are long-lived, and thus, are very careful about preserving ressources for the long-term, since they would probably have to live with any stupid, short-term decision with long-term negative consequences. They also tend to have symbiotic and emotional relationship with many producer-organisms as an ecological niche, and it would play a huge role on any local culture.
    Now, the Drows (Pyroxene drows) I worldbuilded have a very unique, insular culture, that places a huge emphasis on ritual masochism. They also practice a worship of the ancestors, mostly through routine acts. They greatly value the family unit, their incest taboo while present is rather weak and they show unconditional love and solidarity towards their bloodline and clan. They are quite bad at categorising and differenciating relationships outside the family, and are seldom able to tell the difference between being friends with someone, and being in a romantic relationship with someone. It's to the point that chatting with friends in public is considered sexually indecent. Mariages between widower and sister-in-law or widow and brother-in-law is considered a cultural norm in their culture, and would consider searching for a second spouse outside of the family one married into as an act of selfish abandonment and cruelty, because it often means leaving the widow and their nephews
    ieces in poverty. They are unlikely to adopt or agree with a religion that would consider this practice taboo. Also, the young bride new to a family would be expected to follow a harsh training as part of her "integration".
    But they have no ethical issues making daily penitence, nudity, or with public circoncision as a rite of adoption.

  • @kierstinr4e
    @kierstinr4e 10 месяцев назад +6

    Just finished the first draft of my book--I focused a ton on character, theme, and story this first go round. All the while, worldbuilding loomed over my shoulder as this huge, daunting thing. :( I just didn't even know where to start! These videos have provided/are providing such a helpful schema for it, though. I'm actually excited for it now! Thank you so much!

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  10 месяцев назад +3

      Congratulations on finishing your first draft, that's huge! I absolutely have full faith in you, I'm very glad that I've bene able to provide some help. Thank you for watching!!

  • @Alcarinqu
    @Alcarinqu Год назад +7

    Great video again! :)
    My problem with creating a language for my world is the amount of work: Words, Script, Grammar, History, Dialect etc.
    And for what? For my world i would only like to have unique names for villages and towns, and because there is naturally not only one language i would have to do this many times... but i am still searching for a easier solution for naming my town... ;)

  • @kelleyiswriting
    @kelleyiswriting Год назад +10

    Ahhh great video as usual

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +3

      Aww, thank you Kelley!! haha honestly if I had read it when I was younger I would have felt REALLY similarly, there was another book called Eon that I loved when looking back, it was full of weird notions about Chinese culture and people. Definitely agreed that writers need to be mindful of potential audience reactions!! I think it's easy to get swept up in the idea of being able to write whatever you want, imagination's the limit, in fantasy, but the context of the real world still has to be considered. Like how whenever we discussed the literary classics in school, we'd always have to learn about the author's background and the historical context they were writing in-our stories don't exist in a bubble!!
      Long reply, but ty again for watching 🫶 YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL TOO

  • @ur_l0cal_crypt1d_b00
    @ur_l0cal_crypt1d_b00 Год назад +8

    i heard about the fish in collarbone challenge in china, and I've been playing with the idea of one of my books nations (its in a desert, so water is very important) having a thing where their people will walk around with fishbowl-like jewelry and, if they're steady enough, will actually hold fish in their collarbones. just a fun little thing i thought of doing lol :)

  • @neversparky
    @neversparky 8 месяцев назад +3

    Any tips for resources that can help us gain the perspective of people from within culture's we'd like to include/be inspired by? Most sources out there seem to be secondary sources, so its hard to tell which ones are truly accurate or not

  • @angelenapulis9083
    @angelenapulis9083 8 месяцев назад +1

    These videos are so helpful. Can’t wait to watch the next one!

  • @oliviap.w.1023
    @oliviap.w.1023 Месяц назад +1

    When you were talking about finding elements of your own culture that really excite you or that you're proud of, i have to say as a white person born and raised in america i kinda struggle with that part lol

  • @arthurgarrison
    @arthurgarrison 11 месяцев назад +1

    YAY!!! YOU ARE SO AWESOME! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE A BIOLOGIST. MOST SCIENTIFIC PEOPLE CANNOT PLAY IN THE POOLS THAT YOU ARE WORKING WITH IN THIS VLOG. THANKS FOR THE HELP. I'M TRYING TO GET READERS INTERESTED IN NON-WESTERN/ NON- EUROPEAN CULTURES AND THEIR HISTORIES THROUGH MY WRITING. HAVE YOU PUBLISHED ANYTHING YET? I'D LOVE TO READ YOUR WORK. THANKS AGAIN, LYNN. I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE YOUR VIKING-BOOK.

  • @annejia5382
    @annejia5382 Год назад +1

    new here ❤ but i checked my history and i actually watched multiple videos before of yours but only subbed just now haha ❤ i just love how you discuss different elements ❤

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +1

      Thank you for watching and supporting the channel!!

  • @Stevenroy-Professional-Liar
    @Stevenroy-Professional-Liar Год назад +3

    This is a really great video, and timely for me, because I've been thinking a lot about this topic, especially what is culturally appropriate for me to write. My first taste of fantasy wasn't Tolkien, or Conan, it was the films by the Shaw Brothers and especially the ones directed by Chang Cheh. Of course, when I think of fantasy, my mind goes back to my first influence, and I would really love to write a kung fu epic that's a love letter to Hong Kong action cinema, but I understand I've been influenced by Chinese creators, and that I don't have the cultural understanding to write a novel set in a fictitious China. And, with the exception of Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven, I haven't loved the results when white people have tried this, but I have loved Fonda Lee's Jade City and The Poppy War by R. F. Kuang. There's an authenticity to these latter books. I'm not complaining. I have so much other stuff to write that I will surely die first, but I do get the appeal of settings outside the culture you were born to, but I would also proceed with extreme caution.

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +3

      Thank you for watching! I also very much understand the appeal of writing outside of my culture, although I guess the definition of what is 'mine' has always been a little shakier because I'm second gen. But yes, totally concur-proceeding with caution and humility is the way to go.

  • @waitingforwonderland6036
    @waitingforwonderland6036 11 месяцев назад +4

    I honestly disagree with that you should stray away form using real Languages in world building. I have read lot's of Arab inspired fantasy books and as someone who is middle eastern, I think since our culture is so tied to Arabic (for Arabs obviously) As well as other middle eastern cultures languages. It would be a disservice to not use it. Obviously you should not use the name of the language straight up. it also seems like way too much work and unnecessary stress to put on an author. I only really do it with the main culture I am focusing on and don't bother to use it with the other ones that the main story is not focused it.
    Like I love how the book duology of Mirage and Stardust thief handled it, as they did use Arabic but it fits as you feel way more immersed in the world and close to it. This is just all my opinion btw, I can really only speak for Arabs here and not really any other ethnic group.

  • @Finn_sisjon
    @Finn_sisjon 9 месяцев назад +2

    I hate writing outside of my culture but right now my story is based off of old Canada

    • @angelenapulis9083
      @angelenapulis9083 8 месяцев назад +1

      Instant interest!! I know nothing of old Canada or even modern Canada.

  • @mettabel8097
    @mettabel8097 Год назад +1

    Thank you so much for these videos. They’re super helpful, especially for someone like me who finds world building to be a bit boring 😅. But hopefully as I use these tips I can create a rich and diverse world for my fantasy novel.
    Also, I just wanted to ask, can these same tips be applied to urban/contemporary fantasy?

    • @Loveamour699
      @Loveamour699 Год назад

      Random question, where did you get your art profile picture from?

    • @mettabel8097
      @mettabel8097 Год назад +1

      @@Loveamour699 Hey. I got it off Pinterest

    • @Loveamour699
      @Loveamour699 Год назад

      @@mettabel8097 thank you!

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +1

      Thank you for watching and supporting the channel! I think they absolutely could apply to urban and contemporary fantasy, especially if your world involves a secret society or magical creatures-you could create culture for these as well!

    • @mettabel8097
      @mettabel8097 Год назад

      @@lynndjung thank you so much for replying. Yes, the idea for my new book is kind of centered on a secret society so that’s great

  • @laurenct
    @laurenct Год назад +4

    These videos are spectacularly informational! As an aspiring writer I really appreciate the time and thought you’re putting into these to share your tips with us. I can’t wait for the next one!
    Also, if you don’t mind me asking, how many parts will this series be, and what other topics do you plan to cover? (ノ´ヮ`)ノ*: ・゚

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад +1

      Thank you so much, I'm glad you find them helpful! I have 2 more videos outlined at the moment - one covering politics, economics, and daily life and the other covering magic, folklore, and religion! I'm brainstorming topics for additional parts to this series, however 🫶

  • @claytongriffith8323
    @claytongriffith8323 26 дней назад

    I feel like your defientation of culture is intended to be apart of the "customs" aspect of the dictionary definition

  • @MrJEverettW
    @MrJEverettW Год назад +4

    Part 4 soon?

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  Год назад

      Yes! By the end of May :)

  • @galinor7
    @galinor7 7 месяцев назад

    Actually, if I were to write a fantasy world, it would be Tolkien-esque, but not because I am laxy or just copying. It is because I love myth, more than mere fantasy and I am a Northern European. I love my country as most people love theirs. It is my home. These are my myths and the stories of my ancestors and their beliefs. Why would I base my world on something else, when I have this deep well or history and legend to draw upon on my own doorstep. It is something that defines me and has stories that I have read time and time again, from Beowulf to yr Mabinogion. I'm sorry but I think that you are wrong, at least for Europeans.

    • @lynndjung
      @lynndjung  7 месяцев назад +1

      Hi, I just want to clarify, I do NOT think European-inspired fantasy is overdone-I was more so referring to the watered down worlds that are based solely on Tolkien or people's ideas of Tolkien rather than any source culture, resulting in a cloudy version of what Americans/Canadians think medieval Europe was. It sounds like your passion will make for great fantasy writing stock :) keep it up!

  • @gabiocampos
    @gabiocampos Месяц назад

    Sounds just like the real world

  • @americafy9195
    @americafy9195 Год назад +6

    Sorry but I fail to see how not being true to history when borrowing from real world cultures is disrespectful to people of said cultures. At worst, it's disrespectful to the readers cause it's shallow work.
    For example, there are tons of fantasy japanese and korean light novels, mangas, manhwas, manhuas which borrow elements from west-european middle ages in a very non-sensical way and as a French I perfectly understand that's meant as a way of giving a different "flavor" to their stories by using cultures seen as exotic and prestigious in the far-eastern world, not as a social commentary of my history, in which case the inaccuracy would indeed be insulting. Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, we're currently talking High Fantasy so it doesn't need to be accurate. If it was Historical Fantasy, obviously that would change everything.
    Lastly, but not least, there is a difference between creating a fictional culture by borrowing from real ones and setting the story in a High Fantasy world where you're just "inserting" an existent or past culture. Like, I don't know how to say it but when you're not talking about a real culture, only a real inspired one, you can't harm anybody. And I think if you are just because some elements of a fictional culture are inspired from yours, it tells a lot more about you and your xenophobic relationship to culture than about the author's.
    P.-S. : I'm writing "you" but I'm not talking specifically about you, it's more of a general address. Anyway, I hope I'm not offending you, mayhaps the tone is a little harsh but it kinda feels like people with your discourse are trying to restrain artistic freedom which is, in my book, not acceptable under any circumstances.
    Btw, waiting for the fourth part.

    • @ThaKingDeku
      @ThaKingDeku 8 месяцев назад +1

      I basically kind of said something along the same lines as this. If it is based off another culture, well it isn't that culture, even with the base. People tend to look for reasons to get offended, and I think some how we are beginning to teach people to be offended. People forget that perspective of the same situation, can cause a person to have drastically different take aways. It's all in how it is framed, and how a person chooses to look at it.

    • @americafy9195
      @americafy9195 7 месяцев назад

      @@ThaKingDeku Agreed.

    • @fruitvitamins625
      @fruitvitamins625 7 месяцев назад +3

      The problem isn't the inspiration part, its the way the inspiration is used. And fiction can and often does hurt people, like aladin for instance. The fact that it was based on swana culture isnt the problem, its the vague, racist references to it and the stereotypes within. consciously or not, people are gonna usually take inspiration from places when writing fantasy , just don't be weird about it. Its less about stifling creativity and more about,, not being racist, yknow?
      -one, black western perspective