In the earliest draft of the Hobbit, "Gandalf" was the name of the leader of the dwarves, and the wizard was named Bladorthin. When he got to the Laketown scenes, he decided to switch the names around and call the wizard "Gandalf" and the dwarf leader "Thorin."
I always thought it was funny that Gandalf is so similar to Odin (even having Shadowfax /Slepnir) and he goes to recruit a Burgler (trickster) to help out his friend Thor..in. I recently started thinking of Bilbo as a trickster, and now I can't unsee it. When he wins the ring, he does sp by exploiting a loophole in the Riddle Game. He distracts the dim witted trolls with his superior wit. He taunts Smaug while invisable, and starts the chain reaction of his demise. I dont know... am I off base here? Also, there is a theory Gandalf wanted Smaug gone because he thought he would be too powerful if he ever joined Sauron... which kind of reminds me of the Thor /Jormungandr Odin / Fenrir prophecy. Im also not suggesting direct allegory here, but it seems there was more than casual inspiration at the same time.
You don't need to "unsee" it. In a 1946 letter Tolkien describes Gandalf as an "Odinic wanderer". Väinämöinen from Finnish mythology is considered another strong influence on the character, too, although I think the visual look of Gandalf came from a Swiss postcard of a painting by Josef Madlener.
I also heard somewhere that Gand also is the origine of English word Wand, as is magic wand and Gandalf in that sense would be translated to the wand carrying elf
Tolkien playfully threw the Dwarf names from the Eddas into The Hobbit and later came to regret it when it came to be such a big part of his personal mythology. He preferred his own nomenclature. Later, he devised an explanation: Dwarves do not use their real names in public, and the names we know them by (Thorin, Balin, Fili, etc.) were given them by the Humans and Elves they came in contact with; and in keeping with the conceit that LOTR is a translation of the Red Book of Westmarch, the reason for using Old Norse names is similar to the reason for giving the Riders of Rohann Anglo Saxon names and speech, representing an older form of the language of the Modern English of the rest of the book. Also in a playful way, he thought of the name Gandalf as "Elf with a Wand." He knew is wasn't exactly accurate, but the idea amused him enough to use it for a Wizard, a tall magical creature who carried a staff.
The dwarf association with shape-changing may be the central feature. The magical shape changing of the self is parallel to smithing, which changes the shape and even the substance of materials into tools and items with their own magic. Compare Old English scop for poet (possibly related to scepan, to create), who performed the same function with words.
In previous research, I found references to the mortal king Gandalf, and they identified "Gand" as stick or staff, and the Alva (white or pale) people who lived near Ringiri -- thus he was the Alf who carried/used a battle stave. In that source, Gandalf was killed in war against the king of Oslo. Anyway, that's how I remember it. I was actually tracking down something else at the time, but the Alva turned up as being known for being a particularly pale inland group/tribe (but not sami), and they didn't live along the Alba River.
The name Gandalf still persists even in present day names. The person that sticks out in my head is James Gandolfini, the actor who played Tony Soprano. I wonder if his surname has any connection to the Eddas.
There's a town in Italy called "Castel Gandolfo", famous for a papal summer palace. And there was noble family from Genoa called "Gandolfi", probably taking their name from Lombardic "Gondulf". That is one of several dialectal variants of a Germanic personal name, which appears as "Gondulf", "Gundulph", "Kundolf", "Gondulphus", "Gundulfus", "Gundolfo", or "Gondon" in various Germanic languages. That's probably "gund" + "wulf" (i.e "battle wolf") rather than "gand" + "alf".
Awesome explanation of Gandalfr aside.. You two are so beautiful coupled together, I just come to watch you two together to feel joy. Thanks for sharing :)
In Old Norse is there a connection between elf (Nor. alv) and river? (Nor. elv) The area Alfheim, where there was a king Gandalf, has been translated as both elf-home and river-land.
@@SirielleArt Interesting, that surprised me yesterday 'cos it jut came out of the blue: I'd not come across this fuction in the previous days. Andlet me tell you that , at leas in the case of Spanish (my native language), the pornucniation is quite well, it's very claer despute the somewhat unnatural flow of the sound. In other apects it is not so well achieved; there are at certain points phrases that sound a little bit strange for a native speaker. It is still a good tool, though; and I think it can be gradually perfected with the time.
@ernestomora9955 I noticed it recently on one very popular channel, which suddenly talked in my native language (Polish). I've heard YT is working on such a tool, but I didn't know it was already working. There it was some simple English, but here, with so many strange words in Old Norse, it must be a challenge. I guess it will be better with time to a point it'll be impossible to guess it is Ai talking, not human.
Some people in Scandinavia are not that tall. Not because of external circumstances, such as (lack of) food their in childhood , but because of the DNA they inherited from their Scandinavian parents. We're not all tall, blonde, blue eyed clones with high cheekbones.
Is there any known connection between dwarven smiths and jewelry makers in Norse legend and those in Egyptian culture (Ptah, for instance, and the depictions on tomb walls of dwarf jewellers)?
Not sure about that, but I'm pretty sure there is a chapter of Greek Myth where the gods flee to Egypt for a bit, including Hephestus who has some dwarfish qualities. Also, I know greek mythology can get rather convoluted due to the amount of sources, but there is another story where Helios' son steals the sun chariot and crashes it into the Sahara, which is why it is a desert today.
Once upon a time I heard an audiobook version of The Hobbit in Danish, narrated by the absolute legend Ove Sprogøe. I noticed that he pronounced *Gandalf* as *Gand Alf* , and not as most people do (according to my impression) *Gan Dalf* . But Gandalf is indeed Elvish.
No. Mithrandir is Elvish. "Many are my names in many countries, Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, In the south Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not."
In the earliest draft of the Hobbit, "Gandalf" was the name of the leader of the dwarves, and the wizard was named Bladorthin. When he got to the Laketown scenes, he decided to switch the names around and call the wizard "Gandalf" and the dwarf leader "Thorin."
He also reused Bladorthin as a name of a largely unknown king who purchased spears from Erebor!
"Is that ice?"
"No, it's mice."
So "Elf" in Norse would be equivalent to "Fae" in Gaelic. That actually does make sense.
They even include most of the same letters lol.
I always thought it was funny that Gandalf is so similar to Odin (even having Shadowfax /Slepnir) and he goes to recruit a Burgler (trickster) to help out his friend Thor..in.
I recently started thinking of Bilbo as a trickster, and now I can't unsee it.
When he wins the ring, he does sp by exploiting a loophole in the Riddle Game. He distracts the dim witted trolls with his superior wit. He taunts Smaug while invisable, and starts the chain reaction of his demise. I dont know... am I off base here?
Also, there is a theory Gandalf wanted Smaug gone because he thought he would be too powerful if he ever joined Sauron... which kind of reminds me of the Thor /Jormungandr Odin / Fenrir prophecy.
Im also not suggesting direct allegory here, but it seems there was more than casual inspiration at the same time.
You don't need to "unsee" it. In a 1946 letter Tolkien describes Gandalf as an "Odinic wanderer". Väinämöinen from Finnish mythology is considered another strong influence on the character, too, although I think the visual look of Gandalf came from a Swiss postcard of a painting by Josef Madlener.
That's not a theory. Gandalf directly states in the movie that Smaug would be a terrible foe if he joined Sauron.
I also heard somewhere that Gand also is the origine of English word Wand, as is magic wand and Gandalf in that sense would be translated to the wand carrying elf
Tolkien playfully threw the Dwarf names from the Eddas into The Hobbit and later came to regret it when it came to be such a big part of his personal mythology. He preferred his own nomenclature. Later, he devised an explanation: Dwarves do not use their real names in public, and the names we know them by (Thorin, Balin, Fili, etc.) were given them by the Humans and Elves they came in contact with; and in keeping with the conceit that LOTR is a translation of the Red Book of Westmarch, the reason for using Old Norse names is similar to the reason for giving the Riders of Rohann Anglo Saxon names and speech, representing an older form of the language of the Modern English of the rest of the book.
Also in a playful way, he thought of the name Gandalf as "Elf with a Wand." He knew is wasn't exactly accurate, but the idea amused him enough to use it for a Wizard, a tall magical creature who carried a staff.
Thank you Vanna!
In modern Norwegian the word "gand", meaning "spell", is usually associated with the Sami. Might be a post-Christianity shift of use.
The dwarf association with shape-changing may be the central feature. The magical shape changing of the self is parallel to smithing, which changes the shape and even the substance of materials into tools and items with their own magic. Compare Old English scop for poet (possibly related to scepan, to create), who performed the same function with words.
In previous research, I found references to the mortal king Gandalf, and they identified "Gand" as stick or staff, and the Alva (white or pale) people who lived near Ringiri -- thus he was the Alf who carried/used a battle stave. In that source, Gandalf was killed in war against the king of Oslo.
Anyway, that's how I remember it. I was actually tracking down something else at the time, but the Alva turned up as being known for being a particularly pale inland group/tribe (but not sami), and they didn't live along the Alba River.
The name Gandalf still persists even in present day names. The person that sticks out in my head is James Gandolfini, the actor who played Tony Soprano. I wonder if his surname has any connection to the Eddas.
There's a town in Italy called "Castel Gandolfo", famous for a papal summer palace. And there was noble family from Genoa called "Gandolfi", probably taking their name from Lombardic "Gondulf". That is one of several dialectal variants of a Germanic personal name, which appears as "Gondulf", "Gundulph", "Kundolf", "Gondulphus", "Gundulfus", "Gundolfo", or "Gondon" in various Germanic languages. That's probably "gund" + "wulf" (i.e "battle wolf") rather than "gand" + "alf".
@ Very interesting! Thanks!
Is there an actual link between the Italian name and the Norse one?
I can't find anything to suggest a Germanic name Gandalf that could have been borrowed into Italian. The only Gandalf is in the old sagas.
Awesome explanation of Gandalfr aside.. You two are so beautiful coupled together, I just come to watch you two together to feel joy. Thanks for sharing :)
@jae7044 Slava Rossii, death to Putlerfascists :) Vse budet Ukraina 🇺🇦
In Old Norse is there a connection between elf (Nor. alv) and river? (Nor. elv) The area Alfheim, where there was a king Gandalf, has been translated as both elf-home and river-land.
Someone else hears the audio of this video in Spanish (as generated by an AI), or I'm just going emented?
It happned to me in portuguese. Just set it back to english.
@@testemunhosdahistoria9688 Well, it's good to know I'm not crazy, hahaha.
How accurate is this automatic pronunciation? I wonder if Jackson Crawford is aware of it. I guess YT adds it to popular channels now.
@@SirielleArt Interesting, that surprised me yesterday 'cos it jut came out of the blue: I'd not come across this fuction in the previous days. Andlet me tell you that , at leas in the case of Spanish (my native language), the pornucniation is quite well, it's very claer despute the somewhat unnatural flow of the sound. In other apects it is not so well achieved; there are at certain points phrases that sound a little bit strange for a native speaker. It is still a good tool, though; and I think it can be gradually perfected with the time.
@ernestomora9955 I noticed it recently on one very popular channel, which suddenly talked in my native language (Polish). I've heard YT is working on such a tool, but I didn't know it was already working. There it was some simple English, but here, with so many strange words in Old Norse, it must be a challenge. I guess it will be better with time to a point it'll be impossible to guess it is Ai talking, not human.
How cool is that? Eh? .. Awesome..!
You mean, it's not from "grand elf"?!?!?
🤣🤣 I was just glad they gave Cha-Ka from the Land of the Lost a role in The Rings of 💩
volume is very low..
I must be part dwarf because of my lack of height. Haha. My ancestry is Scandinavian-French-German from the Alsace. I’m 5’5” my nephew 6’7”. 😮
Some people in Scandinavia are not that tall.
Not because of external circumstances, such as (lack of) food their in childhood , but because of the DNA they inherited from their Scandinavian parents.
We're not all tall, blonde, blue eyed clones with high cheekbones.
@ yes I am aware of that but would have been very nice to just get a few inches of height from some misplaced gene hiding in my DNA haha
Is that Mammoth hot springs in the background?
That Tolkien meme of Tolkien being the least creative person in naming anything has another chapter.
Magical fairy/elf. This is super basic stuff here. He was almost named Gandwere(magical man/wizard).
More like wand elf.
@robinviden9148 gand means magic too... you have to accept that these words have multiple meanings/uses.
The next elder scrolls game should be Based in atmora
🌍 mix with elf
Lauren doesn't look thoroughly convinced about the etymology of "gand"...
😂 He can make up any word origin and I’d believe it!
@@LaurenSóldís hahah THAT I'll believe!
Is there any known connection between dwarven smiths and jewelry makers in Norse legend and those in Egyptian culture (Ptah, for instance, and the depictions on tomb walls of dwarf jewellers)?
Not sure about that, but I'm pretty sure there is a chapter of Greek Myth where the gods flee to Egypt for a bit, including Hephestus who has some dwarfish qualities.
Also, I know greek mythology can get rather convoluted due to the amount of sources, but there is another story where Helios' son steals the sun chariot and crashes it into the Sahara, which is why it is a desert today.
👍
The spanish name “Gonzalo” and surname “Gonzalez” comes from that same root.
Doesn't Gonsalo come from something meaning something like 'war salve'?
Once upon a time I heard an audiobook version of The Hobbit in Danish, narrated by the absolute legend Ove Sprogøe.
I noticed that he pronounced *Gandalf* as *Gand Alf* , and not as most people do (according to my impression) *Gan Dalf* .
But Gandalf is indeed Elvish.
No. Mithrandir is Elvish.
"Many are my names in many countries,
Mithrandir among the Elves,
Tharkûn to the Dwarves;
Olórin I was in my youth in the West
that is forgotten,
In the south Incánus,
in the North Gandalf;
to the East I go not."
@@PalleRasmussen Gandalf obviously forgot his time in Rhûn where he earned his staff! 😆
@jsimes1 what? Is this some Peter Jackson BS? I hste all his movies
@@PalleRasmussenNo, it's a reference to the Amazon show.
@graemecheadle9997 from what I hear that is even worse
First