as an audio engineering student trying to understand why there are so many mics in an orchestral recording, this video was enlightening like no other video. "Just start out using the room/main mics and only use sections/spots when youre missing something and not by default" is something that I really needed to hear. great talk, and a pleasure to listen to.
LOL as an OLD guy who was a recording engineer in the day of tape and worked on some soundtracks and media sessions I was all set to hear about physical microphone placement for doing the recording. But this is 2022 and laughed when I realized you talking about choosing mic placement options available in libraries. I didn't listen to the whole video but enough to hear about students feeling they have to use everything because they have and overdo it and mess up the sound. Two simple pieces of advice that was valid in my day and still valid today.... KISS Keep It Simple Stupid. The second..... if it sounds good it is good. Don't over work things don't muck things up with too much EQ or 'verb and delays. Beginners don't understand summing and how they tinker with EQ and reverb on track by track, but when all those tracks are played together they add/sum up to be a mess.
Great advice! "Trust your ears if you have a halfway decent monitoring situation" is one of the ongoing mantras of this channel. The first thing I learned when I interned at a recording studio during college was indeed "If it sounds good, it is good". Too many people get hung up on theory instead of using their ears and taste. Sorry that this wasn't about actual mic placements for recording. I only have basic knowledge about that since I'm mainly a composer, so orchestra recording setup is always done by the stage crew that actually know what they're doing :-) I might get an engineer on here at some point though, to talk both about mixing and also about recording.
I love this video. I would like to add the experience I had when I was studying sound recording, to answer the question about why is the main microphones system where it is (somewhere above the conductor). The answer is just amazing and if you have a chance to try it as I did, and climb upon a scale to listen with your ears what's going on up there... It not what the conductor hears. It's way better! It's simply the best place in the world (or the room) to listen to the orchestra!!! So wide, deep, crystal clear, balanced... And that's what the different systems of microphones (Decca trees, AB couples, ORTF couples) are trying to transcribe. Everything you say about how to build a coherent mix starting with the main mics is totally true and very well put. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing this with us! I´m a trumpet player by profession, and I have done lots of recordings. Only a few of them sound as good as I would like them to. Not because of me playing like crap, but because of recording my trumpet way too close to the microphone. Brass instruments need room! Nobody wants to listen to a trumpet two inches from the bell, but someone told the techs to put the mic very close, and put reverb on it afterwards. Something sad happened like twentyfive years ago... Your channel is just great!!
Dear Anne, I love your music and love to here advice from a sucessfull female professional! One tiny mistake in your graphics: The Decca tree consists of 3 Omnidirectional mics(often Neumann M(1)50, DPA 4006 or Schoeps MK2s) in a special sphere to make the mics more directional with higher frequencies. Not important for the average composer, but good to know!
I was wondering about that actually! When I did my reading and saw graphics of the original Decca tree it definitely said "omnidirectional" everywhere. But every time I read about a Decca Tree combo (e.g. with Outriggers and Surrounds or some other additional mics), the graphics changed to no longer have the Decca Tree be omnidirectional. So I wasn't entirely sure and chose the latter graphics since I'm mostly describing the combo situation. Thank you for pointing this out!
A clarifying video about the "when and why" on mics, mixes and recording stuff. You give a confidence perk to all the good techniciens out there, who help us a lot by knowing the "how to". Thank you, Anne. Grettings..!!
Thank you so much for all your brilliant RUclips videos Anne. I have been inspired to go back to composition again. I'm am a retired recording engineer/programmer who, for many reasons, have found making music very difficult. Suffering from terrible grief I went to painting instead. Painting was an easier medium to cope with/ as I find music an intrinsic emotional expression. So when my emotions were too raw, music was too painful. But hearing and seeing your work has reminded me of what I used to enjoy so much. Plus getting up to date with the technical's has been really interesting. Time to brush off the dusty VSL orchestra and make some coherent sounds again. Thank you for your inspiration Anne. In some ways you remind me of Anne Dudley, with whom I was lucky to have worked with many moons ago. Keep up the good work you are doing. It is a tough business, but you have such a great attitude, work ethic and musical talent. You are at the start of your career! x
Thanks for the reassuring information. I have gone down the rabbit hole a couple of times in the past to tweak the sound. I almost always end up back using the tree mics again. It's scary how fast things can go sideways when you start making your own mic choices!
Dry sound is provided with the VSL libraries, along with a bunch of premixed presets. I do appreciate that the dry sounds are available, because a fully mixed sound is unusable outside of an orchestral music context. A dry sound allows you to customize the sound in any type of musical context, but if the samples already include the room sound and you don't need it... then you're doomed. It's good that some libraries provide the best of both worlds.
This helps organize the many things Ive been learning regarding samples and recording my own things. Its an interesting challenge, very good overall mental map.
Thanks Anne , your channel is just amazing..Ive done multiple orchestral courses and the information here is insane and for free...If you ever get the time please do a course for us..I would be the first to sign up
Thank you and you still have an excellent level of knowledge and experience.. I’m wondering what microphone you using for RUclips? It’s pretty good.. thank you 🙏
This is EXACTLY the advice I was looking for today, great timing! I just started recording with live musicians recently, and mixing is very different from sample libraries.
Dry samples back in the day like Garrison , Dan Dean, Miroslav...oof! That "rosin on the string" sound was what people thought they wanted. But mixing that way is just more work. Excellent video!
To be fair Miroslav and Siedlaczek A.O. were recorded in bigger rooms. I even think that Miroslav was recorded in the Dvořák hall. Siedlaczek's choirs were definitely recorded in a big concert hall. But due to hardware limitations, samples had to be as small / efficient as possible. So no release tails.
@@michaelstram Yes. That's possible. This was all before my time but from the information a could gather, most sample libraries were provided in different formats throughout the hardware sampler days. Siedlaczeks recordings were repackaged several times. I think they even repurposed some of his Advanced Orchestra recordings for String Essentials in 200x(?) where they made them available with release tails and in multiple mic positions. However unlike with synth and drum machines the documentation of these pre 2000s librarys is very poor. Garritan Orchestral String was heard everywhere (mainly TV and games) when it came out but now it seems as if it never existed. Anyway, you are absolutely right. Today we don't have to worry about these limitations anymore. 😊
Nice video, Ann! I totally agree with you. I was frustrated few times in the past when working with associate composers/producers, and they decided to recorded with close and OH mics, and when I asked them, they simply answered "it can be replaced by convolution reverb." FACEPALM, and I'd go "You simply can't, genius. What's the point of spend money for renting nice hall with state-of-the-art acoustics, if we only capture close mic'ing?" And I got fired. LOL
Thanks much! Kinda confirming what I already thought. But it did address, somewhat, the question why am I adding reverb to instruments recorded in a beautiful room? I’m definitely going to have to revisit some settings in my template.
Your presentation chimes with my experience using BBCSO Discover. I could dial the added reverb down to nothing and benefit from the room in the samples themselves. Now I shall look at my piano solo track and see what mikes are in the mix, and change them to tree or closest possible to tree.
This is the best explanation about how to use the mic positions...and how not to use the "spot"/"close" mics. BTW, you mentioned the naming differs depending on each company's library. Can you talk about the naming for the libraries you use (in your section videos)...like Cinematic Studios Strings, Berlin Woodwinds, and VSL Brass for example?
Actually, thanks to convolution reverb it isn't at all hard to create multiple mics for dry samples these days. But close mics are not the equivalent of dry samples, which are recorded in very, very dry rooms.
Convolution reverb is not really an equivalent solution. The reflections have severe limitations (similar to samples) that could never match the sound of a real space with almost infinite reflections recorded. And if one is going for the sound of their favorite film scores, the close mics + reverb is not going to do the trick. There's just too much information missing.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Well, of course, you're never going to match the real thing any more than samples capture the real thing. But convolution reverb is a close approximation and a good solution for DRY sample libraries. And let's face it, only the most discerning ear would be able to tell the difference in a mix. No matter what you choose to use, there will always be compromises. And since most of us don't currently and may never have a chance to work with a real orchestra, we're stuck with those compromises and simply do the best with what we've got.
It takes a lot more than reverb though, to put anything into a space and make it feel realistic. A lot more is happening acoustically in a room that would have to be accounted for and rebuilt with several audio plugins. Otherwise it'll just sound like a dry signal with a reverb on it which has been my overall impression of mockups that make use of dry libraries. It also doesn't really work in anyone's favor to not only fake the orchestra with samples but then also fake the room on top of them when at least one of the two can be real.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer It's a simple process that involves early reflections via convolution reverb and adding algorithmic reverb for a tail. If you want an easier route, a plugin like Virtual Soundstage or Panagement will do the grunt work for you re: placing the instrument in the room, then all you have to do is send it to a reverb for the tail. One trick for placing it deeper in the room (if that's what you want) is to use a pre-fader send, instead of post-fader. If you want more definition you can do the old vocal ducking trick using a compressor on the verb send. I think what you're encountering are people who are just slapping reverb on a dry instrument and that rarely works. I know it's a pain in the ass for composers who are busy and/or just want to compose, but I think it behooves anyone doing mockups or releasing their music from their bedroom studios to actually take the time to learn a bit about engineering rather than relying on the sample library developer to do it for you.
Great Video, thx for this. I want to test using the Libraries' mics now. Is it a big Problem to use different Halls of different libraries? (Synchron stage VSL - Teldex Berlin Woodwinds and so on)
So basically if you want a very tight spiccato ostinato for an epic track you would mix in more of the close mics? While the main melody strings should just be left with the main pic positions?
Hi Anne.Thank you so much for this Video.Spitfire as self did mail me this video,because i did asked them about this Mic`s settings. So , you explain very well.I ma so thankful for this.Also with the meaning, that all the developer did spend so much money to get in thsoe beautiful Halls or Studios. When i anyway want to get an anothe reverb,instead the AIR hall,should i do take the Tree and add some other reverb ? But i would not with the Symphonic range from Spitfire.Enough Reverb from this Awesome AIR.
What about dry libraries like VSL with reverb like MIR? Also, when samples with baked in reverb are triggered, it lasts only until you play (unless release can be changed). Can this cause audible problems sometimes?
Thanks ! A video I wish I had seen sooner. I'm guilty of having make too much use of those close mics. Now I'm lucky enough to work with Orchestral Tools Berlin Serie for orchestral works, but I just can't use the Tree mic as my main mic for each section of the orchestra. Here, the other mics come handy for creating more (maybe too much ?) depth between sections. As I write this, I remember that you use(d) Berlin Woodwinds (on Kontakt). I'm curious to know how you mix and blend it with other library... Tree, ORTF, Close ? I find that the ORTF as the main mic + Close if needed is what I personnaly like, alongside the rest of the Berlin Serie.
If I might mention something? While I enjoy your videos very much (both entertaining and very informative!), do you perhaps have a new office chair? In the last couple of videos you are constantly moving up and down a bit especially when you move your hands. It's almost as if you are sitting on a space hopper/skippy ball :D Perhaps most people don't even notice it, but I'm a bit sensitive on that part and it (almost) makes me feel nauseous. If I'm the only one then tough luck for me. But in case I'm not, perhaps you could use your old chair again ;)
I've always been more into the "Japanese sound" of recording in smaller rooms with lots of definition (except for brass, brass NEEDS room to shine) and going Close mics with simulation never quite nailed it. With Tokyo Scoring Strings I now know why, even though they record in smaller rooms, there's a deccatree and the whole family of mics and even if the room is smaller, the width and nuances of the instruments interacting with it can't be replaced. Even when I'm using other libraries with TSS, I still have at least some of the Tree to not lose all that info!
Hey Anne-Katrin, thanks for this (again, as always) awesome video! I enjoy your content so much. May I ask (and I know, this question is not really related to this video but anyways) what your favorite Harp VST is? I've watched some reviews but I'm really interested in your opinion and what you can recommend. Lovely greetings from Germany :)
This is a great explanation (id say one of the best I’ve heard). If you ever decide to do less composing, you would make for an excellent teacher. Just sayin’ :-)
Not necessarily. Traditional scoring stages aren't particularly wet (AIR being the exception) so the halls don't sound that vastly different most of the time. There are also way more variables (like equipment, players, the way something was sampled) that close mics wouldn't solve many issues. The close mic sound of one library can sound vastly different from the close mic sound of another library. So you win nothing but you lose all the other good stuff.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer great thanks for the feedback, I have experimented quite a lot with stages Air, Abbey, Vienna and a bit Teldex of the corresponding libraries, sound now not to bad and good to know that this must not end in a chaos ;)
I'm unfortunately part of the small minority that prefers a different orchestra seating, so manual positioning using the close mics and dry samples is the name of the game :/
When they are sampling an orchestra, is the whole orchestra there as they sample each instrument or section? or is it one person or section alone in the hall? I know enough people in small rooms can dampen the reverb.
That would be the most expensive and least efficient way of sampling anything. You'd be paying 50+ people to just sit there for days without doing anything and it would drive up the product price by a lot. Plus you'd be increasing the noise on the entire library.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Oh, thanks for the detailed answer! I used to play in small clubs and the rooms always sounded a little different from soundcheck to when it was full (not that I frequently played to full houses) Thanks for your channel, very helpful as I try to learn about writing to picture.
as an audio engineering student trying to understand why there are so many mics in an orchestral recording, this video was enlightening like no other video. "Just start out using the room/main mics and only use sections/spots when youre missing something and not by default" is something that I really needed to hear. great talk, and a pleasure to listen to.
LOL as an OLD guy who was a recording engineer in the day of tape and worked on some soundtracks and media sessions I was all set to hear about physical microphone placement for doing the recording. But this is 2022 and laughed when I realized you talking about choosing mic placement options available in libraries. I didn't listen to the whole video but enough to hear about students feeling they have to use everything because they have and overdo it and mess up the sound. Two simple pieces of advice that was valid in my day and still valid today.... KISS Keep It Simple Stupid. The second..... if it sounds good it is good. Don't over work things don't muck things up with too much EQ or 'verb and delays. Beginners don't understand summing and how they tinker with EQ and reverb on track by track, but when all those tracks are played together they add/sum up to be a mess.
Great advice! "Trust your ears if you have a halfway decent monitoring situation" is one of the ongoing mantras of this channel. The first thing I learned when I interned at a recording studio during college was indeed "If it sounds good, it is good". Too many people get hung up on theory instead of using their ears and taste. Sorry that this wasn't about actual mic placements for recording. I only have basic knowledge about that since I'm mainly a composer, so orchestra recording setup is always done by the stage crew that actually know what they're doing :-) I might get an engineer on here at some point though, to talk both about mixing and also about recording.
I love this video. I would like to add the experience I had when I was studying sound recording, to answer the question about why is the main microphones system where it is (somewhere above the conductor). The answer is just amazing and if you have a chance to try it as I did, and climb upon a scale to listen with your ears what's going on up there... It not what the conductor hears. It's way better! It's simply the best place in the world (or the room) to listen to the orchestra!!! So wide, deep, crystal clear, balanced... And that's what the different systems of microphones (Decca trees, AB couples, ORTF couples) are trying to transcribe.
Everything you say about how to build a coherent mix starting with the main mics is totally true and very well put. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing this with us! I´m a trumpet player by profession, and I have done lots of recordings. Only a few of them sound as good as I would like them to. Not because of me playing like crap, but because of recording my trumpet way too close to the microphone. Brass instruments need room! Nobody wants to listen to a trumpet two inches from the bell, but someone told the techs to put the mic very close, and put reverb on it afterwards. Something sad happened like twentyfive years ago...
Your channel is just great!!
Dear Anne,
I love your music and love to here advice from a sucessfull female professional!
One tiny mistake in your graphics:
The Decca tree consists of 3 Omnidirectional mics(often Neumann M(1)50, DPA 4006 or Schoeps MK2s) in a special sphere to make the mics more directional with higher frequencies. Not important for the average composer, but good to know!
I was wondering about that actually! When I did my reading and saw graphics of the original Decca tree it definitely said "omnidirectional" everywhere. But every time I read about a Decca Tree combo (e.g. with Outriggers and Surrounds or some other additional mics), the graphics changed to no longer have the Decca Tree be omnidirectional. So I wasn't entirely sure and chose the latter graphics since I'm mostly describing the combo situation. Thank you for pointing this out!
A clarifying video about the "when and why" on mics, mixes and recording stuff. You give a confidence perk to all the good techniciens out there, who help us a lot by knowing the "how to". Thank you, Anne. Grettings..!!
Thanks. On top of the great content, I love the intro sequences.
Finally got outside again to get some footage! :-) Thanks for the support!
Very very useful video. Clearly Ms Dern is a great teacher in addition to her skills as a musician.
She tries. I hear she's a bit short on patience though... ;-P
Mic positions are a grey area for many people. Thanks for clarifying. So very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much for all your brilliant RUclips videos Anne. I have been inspired to go back to composition again.
I'm am a retired recording engineer/programmer who, for many reasons, have found making music very difficult. Suffering from terrible grief I went to painting instead. Painting was an easier medium to cope with/ as I find music an intrinsic emotional expression. So when my emotions were too raw, music was too painful.
But hearing and seeing your work has reminded me of what I used to enjoy so much. Plus getting up to date with the technical's has been really interesting.
Time to brush off the dusty VSL orchestra and make some coherent sounds again. Thank you for your inspiration Anne.
In some ways you remind me of Anne Dudley, with whom I was lucky to have worked with many moons ago.
Keep up the good work you are doing. It is a tough business, but you have such a great attitude, work ethic and musical talent. You are at the start of your career!
x
Thanks for the reassuring information. I have gone down the rabbit hole a couple of times in the past to tweak the sound. I almost always end up back using the tree mics again. It's scary how fast things can go sideways when you start making your own mic choices!
We've all been there. :-)
Dry sound is provided with the VSL libraries, along with a bunch of premixed presets. I do appreciate that the dry sounds are available, because a fully mixed sound is unusable outside of an orchestral music context. A dry sound allows you to customize the sound in any type of musical context, but if the samples already include the room sound and you don't need it... then you're doomed. It's good that some libraries provide the best of both worlds.
This helps organize the many things Ive been learning regarding samples and recording my own things.
Its an interesting challenge, very good overall mental map.
Thank you for confirming what I have been, and continue doing all the time, that is, using the Decca tree mic at 99% (if not 100%) every time 😁
THANK YOU very much ! I have been pulling my hair out a long time ago and i feel so much better now. Thanks for the relaxing intro too🤗
Thanks Anne , your channel is just amazing..Ive done multiple orchestral courses and the information here is insane and for free...If you ever get the time please do a course for us..I would be the first to sign up
You're positively charming in this one. And super informative- thank you!
Very practical, useful and musical information. Kudos Anne!
Thank you and you still have an excellent level of knowledge and experience.. I’m wondering what microphone you using for RUclips? It’s pretty good.. thank you 🙏
Holy cow, this has been really good stuff to be aware of. Thanks a lot for this content!
This is EXACTLY the advice I was looking for today, great timing! I just started recording with live musicians recently, and mixing is very different from sample libraries.
Anne you are great thank you for that video I think this is the best video about mic position in youtube!
Dry samples back in the day like Garrison , Dan Dean, Miroslav...oof! That "rosin on the string" sound was what people thought they wanted. But mixing that way is just more work. Excellent video!
Well said! I remember trying to work with some really dry / sterile libraries many years ago and it was no joy to make that work.
To be fair Miroslav and Siedlaczek A.O. were recorded in bigger rooms. I even think that Miroslav was recorded in the Dvořák hall. Siedlaczek's choirs were definitely recorded in a big concert hall. But due to hardware limitations, samples had to be as small / efficient as possible. So no release tails.
@@yango8778 Point taken. Weren't some of those libraries available for Akai samplers? So yeah VERY limited resources back then.
@@michaelstram Yes. That's possible. This was all before my time but from the information a could gather, most sample libraries were provided in different formats throughout the hardware sampler days. Siedlaczeks recordings were repackaged several times. I think they even repurposed some of his Advanced Orchestra recordings for String Essentials in 200x(?) where they made them available with release tails and in multiple mic positions. However unlike with synth and drum machines the documentation of these pre 2000s librarys is very poor. Garritan Orchestral String was heard everywhere (mainly TV and games) when it came out but now it seems as if it never existed. Anyway, you are absolutely right. Today we don't have to worry about these limitations anymore. 😊
Heavenly voice, Anne-Kathrin (& sound advice!) xoxoxo
Nice video, Ann! I totally agree with you. I was frustrated few times in the past when working with associate composers/producers, and they decided to recorded with close and OH mics, and when I asked them, they simply answered "it can be replaced by convolution reverb." FACEPALM, and I'd go "You simply can't, genius. What's the point of spend money for renting nice hall with state-of-the-art acoustics, if we only capture close mic'ing?"
And I got fired. LOL
Thanks much! Kinda confirming what I already thought. But it did address, somewhat, the question why am I adding reverb to instruments recorded in a beautiful room? I’m definitely going to have to revisit some settings in my template.
Very helpful and insightful info!
Thank you!
Just what I needed! Great info, thanks!
Your presentation chimes with my experience using BBCSO Discover. I could dial the added reverb down to nothing and benefit from the room in the samples themselves. Now I shall look at my piano solo track and see what mikes are in the mix, and change them to tree or closest possible to tree.
Another cool learning clip, thanks, & congrats on the ASCAP Inside Music feature!
Thank you!
This is the best explanation about how to use the mic positions...and how not to use the "spot"/"close" mics. BTW, you mentioned the naming differs depending on each company's library. Can you talk about the naming for the libraries you use (in your section videos)...like Cinematic Studios Strings, Berlin Woodwinds, and VSL Brass for example?
Actually, thanks to convolution reverb it isn't at all hard to create multiple mics for dry samples these days. But close mics are not the equivalent of dry samples, which are recorded in very, very dry rooms.
Convolution reverb is not really an equivalent solution. The reflections have severe limitations (similar to samples) that could never match the sound of a real space with almost infinite reflections recorded. And if one is going for the sound of their favorite film scores, the close mics + reverb is not going to do the trick. There's just too much information missing.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Well, of course, you're never going to match the real thing any more than samples capture the real thing. But convolution reverb is a close approximation and a good solution for DRY sample libraries. And let's face it, only the most discerning ear would be able to tell the difference in a mix. No matter what you choose to use, there will always be compromises. And since most of us don't currently and may never have a chance to work with a real orchestra, we're stuck with those compromises and simply do the best with what we've got.
It takes a lot more than reverb though, to put anything into a space and make it feel realistic. A lot more is happening acoustically in a room that would have to be accounted for and rebuilt with several audio plugins. Otherwise it'll just sound like a dry signal with a reverb on it which has been my overall impression of mockups that make use of dry libraries. It also doesn't really work in anyone's favor to not only fake the orchestra with samples but then also fake the room on top of them when at least one of the two can be real.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer It's a simple process that involves early reflections via convolution reverb and adding algorithmic reverb for a tail. If you want an easier route, a plugin like Virtual Soundstage or Panagement will do the grunt work for you re: placing the instrument in the room, then all you have to do is send it to a reverb for the tail. One trick for placing it deeper in the room (if that's what you want) is to use a pre-fader send, instead of post-fader. If you want more definition you can do the old vocal ducking trick using a compressor on the verb send. I think what you're encountering are people who are just slapping reverb on a dry instrument and that rarely works. I know it's a pain in the ass for composers who are busy and/or just want to compose, but I think it behooves anyone doing mockups or releasing their music from their bedroom studios to actually take the time to learn a bit about engineering rather than relying on the sample library developer to do it for you.
Honestly, I never even touch mic position. Dry samples need a lot of power to make it sounds good.
Great Video, thx for this. I want to test using the Libraries' mics now. Is it a big Problem to use different Halls of different libraries? (Synchron stage VSL - Teldex Berlin Woodwinds and so on)
So basically if you want a very tight spiccato ostinato for an epic track you would mix in more of the close mics? While the main melody strings should just be left with the main pic positions?
Hi Anne.Thank you so much for this Video.Spitfire as self did mail me this video,because i did asked them about this Mic`s settings.
So , you explain very well.I ma so thankful for this.Also with the meaning, that all the developer did spend so much money to get in thsoe beautiful Halls or Studios.
When i anyway want to get an anothe reverb,instead the AIR hall,should i do take the Tree and add some other reverb ?
But i would not with the Symphonic range from Spitfire.Enough Reverb from this Awesome AIR.
Thank you for this video. Helped a ton
Glad to hear it!
Great overview and advice! :)
Thanks so much!
A huge help, thanks
Happy to hear that!
What about dry libraries like VSL with reverb like MIR? Also, when samples with baked in reverb are triggered, it lasts only until you play (unless release can be changed). Can this cause audible problems sometimes?
Hi Anne. Thanks for this video! What about mixing different samples together? Would you still (mostly) avoid using the close mics? Thanks a lot again.
Thanks for this Anne
this is very helpful..
Thanks ! A video I wish I had seen sooner. I'm guilty of having make too much use of those close mics.
Now I'm lucky enough to work with Orchestral Tools Berlin Serie for orchestral works, but I just can't use the Tree mic as my main mic for each section of the orchestra. Here, the other mics come handy for creating more (maybe too much ?) depth between sections.
As I write this, I remember that you use(d) Berlin Woodwinds (on Kontakt). I'm curious to know how you mix and blend it with other library... Tree, ORTF, Close ? I find that the ORTF as the main mic + Close if needed is what I personnaly like, alongside the rest of the Berlin Serie.
Fantastic content, thx!
If I might mention something? While I enjoy your videos very much (both entertaining and very informative!), do you perhaps have a new office chair? In the last couple of videos you are constantly moving up and down a bit especially when you move your hands. It's almost as if you are sitting on a space hopper/skippy ball :D Perhaps most people don't even notice it, but I'm a bit sensitive on that part and it (almost) makes me feel nauseous. If I'm the only one then tough luck for me. But in case I'm not, perhaps you could use your old chair again ;)
I've always been more into the "Japanese sound" of recording in smaller rooms with lots of definition (except for brass, brass NEEDS room to shine) and going Close mics with simulation never quite nailed it. With Tokyo Scoring Strings I now know why, even though they record in smaller rooms, there's a deccatree and the whole family of mics and even if the room is smaller, the width and nuances of the instruments interacting with it can't be replaced. Even when I'm using other libraries with TSS, I still have at least some of the Tree to not lose all that info!
Hey Anne-Katrin, thanks for this (again, as always) awesome video! I enjoy your content so much. May I ask (and I know, this question is not really related to this video but anyways) what your favorite Harp VST is? I've watched some reviews but I'm really interested in your opinion and what you can recommend. Lovely greetings from Germany :)
Thank you
« Just trust your ears » 👍
👍
I should print that on a mug! :-)
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer excellent idea ♥️
Thank you!
My pleasure!
This is a great explanation (id say one of the best I’ve heard). If you ever decide to do less composing, you would make for an excellent teacher. Just sayin’ :-)
What about mixing different libraries, wouldnt the close mics become more important because the tree mixs of different rooms would mess up everything?
Not necessarily. Traditional scoring stages aren't particularly wet (AIR being the exception) so the halls don't sound that vastly different most of the time. There are also way more variables (like equipment, players, the way something was sampled) that close mics wouldn't solve many issues. The close mic sound of one library can sound vastly different from the close mic sound of another library. So you win nothing but you lose all the other good stuff.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer great thanks for the feedback, I have experimented quite a lot with stages Air, Abbey, Vienna and a bit Teldex of the corresponding libraries, sound now not to bad and good to know that this must not end in a chaos ;)
I'm unfortunately part of the small minority that prefers a different orchestra seating, so manual positioning using the close mics and dry samples is the name of the game :/
When they are sampling an orchestra, is the whole orchestra there as they sample each instrument or section? or is it one person or section alone in the hall? I know enough people in small rooms can dampen the reverb.
That would be the most expensive and least efficient way of sampling anything. You'd be paying 50+ people to just sit there for days without doing anything and it would drive up the product price by a lot. Plus you'd be increasing the noise on the entire library.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Oh, thanks for the detailed answer! I used to play in small clubs and the rooms always sounded a little different from soundcheck to when it was full (not that I frequently played to full houses) Thanks for your channel, very helpful as I try to learn about writing to picture.
So trust your ears, trust the sound engineer if you have one, and go with the flow? Alright, I'll see how I can put that in practice!
Your mic is so sibilant.