1:27:56 I absolutely agree with this concept. I always wish to see a global approach being taken to help indigenous cultures from Abrahamic encroachment. Also I don't believe in trying to make non Hindus into Hindus but rather encouraging them into embracing their own indigenous cultures including deities whether they consider them to be Hindu or non Hindu I'm not much bothered.
The irony here is that folks talking about decoloniality do not say for one moment that we should probably learn sanskrit and study our works and interpret them. Instead, they recommend reading translations Griffith, Wilsons and Jameson. The point of Decoloniality is to build your own interpreted set of texts. Why Griffith, Wilson or Jameson. You cannot find Indian translations of these works translated to English by Indians? Or are you folks looking for legitimacy? The subtle ways in which coloniality pervades is difficult to unearth.
Well open the skandhapuran translated by Shastri and Lahiri ...from Geeta press. It's 22.7 chapter is full of venom against atheists. So Shastri and Lahiri ...these two brahman sanskrit scholars are agents of Nehru or chamcha of Max Muller ...right ?
@@theriam6281 no this format is new , earlier it used to be 30 minutes and then questions , in monologues , this is a semi long form , i really love the podcasts where the time limit is 2 hr plus and it is constant discussion like the free speech one , or decoloniality one .
One thing u people didn't discuss is how women empowerment play a role in demeaning casteism. Now due to education and employment women have freedom and agency so they can choose partner irrespective of caste and religion . That's why TRADS are against women empowerment. The more women get liberated the more we see less endogamy .
Not exactly. Rather they are similar to the Shariyat guys. They rather have you under their authoritarian control rather than under your own free choice.
Which would make sense if less endogamy was the only goal worth striving for in society. This is too simplistic of an opinion. Women have a way bigger role to play in a family based system (for the masses) than men and therefore are expected to have a much higher standard of conduct with respect to the family . Men, as bread winners in a relatively violent world, are held accountable for worldly conduct to make money, not as much for family dynamics . It's not like in a varna/jati based system women did not contribute to the workforce at all, it was more for the purpose of furthering the family profession than just earning money .Please do not equate employability with agency or empowerment. The more a person is engaged in the work force, the less he or she is engaged with the family. It is far more detrimental for a family for the woman to be poorly engaged with the family than for the man.
In simple word, at least for the time being, decoloniality should mean getting rid of Abrahamic/ Judeo Christian world view, at least theoritically , and then see what is there within.
Are what is abrahamic judeochristian mindset, you tell me specifically , is being rational abrahamic , is believing in objectivity ( facts ) abrahamic , is believing in individual liberties abrahamic , is freedom of speech , thought and expression abrahamic , is freedom to religion abrahamic , is equality before law abrahamic , is science abrahamic ? Why do you say judeochristian and try to fool yourself , say it openly that you are not rational , feelings matter more to you than truth , truth doesnt exist according to you , individuals having no rights is fine by you , free speech is bad becouse you cant criticise the gods , freedom to religion is bad because conversions happen , equality should not exist , science is a western construct and indigenous science is better than western science . Is this what is meant by removing the judeochristian outlook ?
@@trisamudeshwar7184 lemme give certain examples Like the over obsession with history (basically you can't deny the prophets, otherwise you're commiting blasphemy), looking things at binary (my way or highway, which is something neoatheists do as well), being tolerant only but not accepting (basically tolerance means you're a peace of shit so I'm tolerating you, acceptance means tho I don't like what is your path but I respect your path and the right to do so too), the obsession with book (ERP types), I can go on and on
@@aditya-rt4zb first , obsession with history is one of the features which hindus lack so much which we are now starting to recover . All other points are about orthodox christianity and islam but t hats not what decoloniality is against , it is aginst modernity which are the points i stated earlier . In his recent podcast jsd says blasphemy is not justified and it is the hindus who are weak , so he is as obsessed with blasphemy as the abrahamics . I am giving the west mutual respect , it is the decoloniality folks who say west is evil and we must remove western influence , in that sense you are even worse than tolerance because you are motivated by disgust at a society which has been more successful . It is a classic case of slave mentality .
@@trisamudeshwar7184 How cute! Nice try. You probably understood very well what I meant by Abrahamic/Judeo-christian world view. And that's why the burnol moment. If not , then go and educate yourself.
@@ppchowdhury9332 when you dont have the brain cells to explain yourself you think other people explaining is burnol . The only burnol that is needed is for your mind . You mentioned 2 to 3 points which were fair which you also do , so you are just as bad as them for doing it . Neither did you counter any of my points i mentioned about modernity nor have you replied to my comments on you . This is the marxist false consciousness that harsh talks about .
Harsh is exactly right. All pre-industrial, agrarian, feudal societies around the world had some version varna and Jati. These ideas are not unique to Hindu society. It served a purpose at one point. As other societies industrialized and prospered, all opportunities became increasingly open to all people. This helped these societies develop and prosper more as it expanded the talent base. If we wish to become a developed, 21st century nation, we must evolve.
Feudal system were in no way similar to caste system. Caste was sanctioned and restricted by scriptures on racial, ethnic basis. Feudal structures naturally arose out of class structures. There were no cultural or racial difference between two feudal class in pre-industrial europe.
@@Aman-qr6wiThere are no major ethnic or racial differences between the various Indian castes. True, the Brahmins may have more Caucasoid genes in them than Dalits - but there is no exclusivity of genetic composition. There can be Dalits with a lot of Caucasoid traits also. Castes evolved by endogamy within vocational communities over a long period of time. And the powerful castes - the rulers and the priests promoted endogamy and eventually the caste divisions became distinct and consolidated.
Eastern cultures are the most rigid ones be it korean, Chinese, Japanese, Indian. The way u put it 'tolerance of paths' leaves u open to very bad ideas. How will u reject them. Mainly human sacrifice, all polytheist religions had that and all were accepted. Carl Jung said polytheism brings confusion and monotheism brings uniformity.
@@MohitKumar-jf8lz yes this thing is there. this create subjective morality and stop the moral progress. on the other hand monotheism ha strong laws for blashphemy
Why is decoloniality dangerous . It is based on a clear assumption that modernity is a western construct and as it is western it is christian as it is christian it is bad . This view is wrong on multiple fromts , modernity is distinctly a reaction against christianity and not its supporter . Its iconography comes from greco roman culture which was polytheistiec like ours and hence dharmic . But they didnt just stop at greco roman they expnaded it to such a great extent and wrote hundreds of masterpieces on politics philosophy economics fiction music etc . Now these people say modernity is bad , then what is modernity and what are its values , let us leave aside labels , what does a modern person believe in and then decide which is better . A modern person believes that man has fundamental rights by virtue of his births and his inalienable right is exchanged for security by the state . In addition he has a duty to keep his freedom and others freedom from encroachment by fellow persons or the state . He believes in equality of birth in that man is born free and equal and no one is higher or lower based on his birth . He believes in fraternity or bhaichara and treating everyone equally and respectfully . He believes in rationality and logic takes presedence over feelings , and sound judgement is made by the mind and not the heart . He takes a laissez-faire approach to religion and respects it but does not turn fanatic or fundamentalist . Are these bad traits to have ? If these are western creations and if hinduism is anti west then any sound judge will say that the wesrern system is better . The solution is hindutva which is hindu modernity which encorporates these values within the hindus and wins political social and cultural victories .
Not completely true modernity still has many Abrahamic roots and they are forcing it on other cultures. I am not against modernity but I don't want western culture as it will destroy our culture and with all due respect Indian culture is worth preserving.
@@punyashloka4946 what indian culture are you protecting , is jati indian culture , group rights over individual rights is indian culture , not having rights is indian culture . Define indian culture first . Are uske greco roman roots hai , greco roman were our brothers , they were also indo aryan toh modernity ke roots toh dharmic hai par nahi tumhe abrahamic abrahamic karte rehna hai . If all the above points are abrahamic then i am an abrahamic , i know these are not abrahamic but if you think they are then i am abrahamic and hindutva is too .
@@trisamudeshwar7184 wow what a logic 👏 Greco-Roman indo eruopean do not exist anymore they are wiped out long time ago todays west is based on Christianity which is an Abrahamic religion 🙄. And yes jati varna is Indian culture, family system is Indian culture, family lineages is Indian system, groups and communities are Indian culture and there is nothing wrong it 😀. India had always been land of communities and large structured families not individuals. And this drama of inequality is not unique to India only, this is universal, Africa has inequality nobody is asking Africans to leave their culture, Chinese has inequality han supremacy is rampant their but no body is asking them to leave their culture, islamic countries have rampant inequality like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, even rich countries like katar , Saudi Arabia has inequality in their society but nobody dares to even question them, even a country like Japan has inequality but nobody ask a Japanese to leave their culture but when it comes to hindus every body start playing humanitarian card ,demean us and then force us to leave our culture very biased. And what human rights you are talking about what China is doing to ugurs Muslims and civilians of honkong is equality, what Pakistan does to hindu minority is equality, how Americans treat blacks is equality, how Saudi Arabia treats shia Muslims is equality bullshit. Indian society far more tolerant than other countries things are not perfect but no country is perfect in the world.
@@punyashloka4946 so you will treat dalits like shit , wont let them near water , make them suffer . What family system , joint or nuclear , i leve in a nuclear family and am very happy and am in no mood for joint family . You will destroy all the progresswe have made in the last 100 years . If you think jati varna is indian culture then this culture must be crushed and destroyed it deserves destruction and i will be the first to destroy it . If indian society has no individual rights and freedom of thought then it is a hellhole which needs to be destroyed . Every regressive policy is indian according to you , if this is dharma then it is shit , if people like you ever become the majority in hindutva i will be the first to destroy this evil .
These progressive values are descended from a religious sect called Protestantism which happens to be a direct descendant of Puritans. We live a Puritan theocracy, we just don't call it that.
Kushal appreciate your share. Please look into the number of ads. Simply too many. Defaul youtube settings sometimes can ruine the experience. Please manully control it.
Harsha is wrong in the sense that individual person cannot change Varna. There are thousands of references in Puranans and Vedas. Famous example is Bishwamitra switched to Brahmin from Kshatriya. Risi Matanga switched from Chandala. King Harishchandra switched from Kshatriya to Chandala to Kshatriya in the same birth.
@@sushant5380 No, it is happening all over the world. Go to any ISKCON or Ramakrishna Mission or Arya Samaj temple around the world, anyone can be pujari (priest), monk and take the highest ranked positions based on JUST spiritual qualifications. ISKCON and Arya samaj even performs Upananan/jeneu sanskar for every qualified disciples. You will find even Black Africans wearing janeu in the western world and in Africa. I think the Shankaracharyas and most of the Advaitins have become rigid on caste except Kanchi Shankaracharya, who visited Dalits home and gave diksha.
Marriage is a personal choice , how can you force a community to marry against their choice 🤔. You people need to be rational ok and why you people want to marry brahmins anyway, they discriminated dalits for years they why you want to marry them.
Residential Patashalas can take very young kids and ensure lifestyle disciplines are maintained right from childhood. Let it be open to all young kids. This is far better than a 2 yr course that is currently being forced by the government. If Veda Patashalas offer a childhood pathway, the government will have far less room to meddle.
@@lfds8342 but majority pathshalas arent isckon or arya samaj's People like puri shankaracharya are a major hindrace to this unity and play major part in creating mindsets that don't question themselves
@@justicebydeathnote Dude ISKCON is a VERY BIG hindu organization. If you want to learn vedas then join ISKCON, Arya Samaj and various other hindu organisation.
Grtting into the meanings of religion and spirituality ... premature.... and out of order for economists. Reading vedas does not give you an understanding of spirituality.
One point i would like to refute is this insistence that if we dont like the present system we must form a jati of our own . This assumption looks fair to those who propose it but is actually the most idiotic as well as dangerous proposition . It basically says all reforms are bad because those who dont like the existing order can form a new group of their own ( more on this later ) . This shows the revulsion to change and reform , it basically says that all reformers should have just formed a jati of their own and cut themselves from the mainstream . It is an argument that only a traditio alist can make because for him his traditions are more important than the safety and security of his country and people . What happens in this view , is a society is rotting istead of changing it people must leave it and form a new society . Tell me then if i am leaving anyway why should i stay hindu when i dont agree with your practises but can advocate for change . Thus this insistence is basically saying anyone who doesnt like the present form of hindu society is not hindu and thus must form his own thing and get cut of frkm mainstream . 2. My objection to this is even deeper , you seem to think that we are against this views or that views and thus if we form a jati we will all be happy . But we are agaisnt jati or group itself . I may agree with kushal or harsh on one thing and disagree with them on others thats individualism but if we have to form a jati then agains those diferences will come so now i and harsh will form separate jati , thus little by little you will fracture hindu society , make it so divided that it will fall . Once you bring such devision any hope of standing upto a foreign power vanishes . So the very thing you seem to attack will end up defeating you . Let me present two scenarios , one is hindutva other is decoloniality . In hindutva all hindus ns well as indians are equal , they are the sons and daughters of bharat mata equal before her eyes . The state sees them as equals without regard for hingh and low . The hindus are citizens of india and directly elect the government as per theri individual conscience and choice . Hindus are united in basic opposition to forces that seek their destruction and after that they are people having different opinions of different things . They have the right to follow whatever practise they want as individuals . Such a hindu society is free , openminded and strong whose starting has already happened ( up elections are a clear dilution of caste ) Second is decoloniality , here society is consisted of groups , every person is associalted with a group . A person can be a part of many groups at the same time but let us forget that because why not . The purpose of the state becomes to navigate between different group intersets , always at odds with each other for the same resource . Politically it will be divided into different jatis which kills their ability to unite . Any dissemt is just brushed aside by saying form a jati of your own without regard for the fact that in this world groups uave power and thus if a person leaves a group he will certainly be hindered by members of that group . A person will be an indian not by virtue of being an indian but because he is a say a baniya or a tamil . So his being indian is derived from his identity as a baniya or a tamil not as an indian . Any sane person will see how this is dangerous .
@@shaan4308 i dont want a hindu society of the past , hindu society of the past is a horrible way to organise ourselves . It is divided into different groups more interested in fighting ( which in decolonial paradigm is called negotiating) with each other , where individual liberties are crushed , where men are slaves of the caste they are borne in . I dont want a return to hindu society of the past .
@@shaan4308 i dont have a right to militate against people following their traditions , but to impose traditio alist structure on me and my society which has thankfully gotten rid of it is something which i will not accept and i will fight it tooth and nail . If you want to follow a tradition you have the full right to , but to put me into this jati structure is horrible . I am a free hindu working for a modern hindu society and to say i must distnce myself from the mainstream or to again divide the hindus is something again which i will never accept . Had this theory been made by the left i would have understood as it is clearly based on postmodern principles , for such a theory to be endorsed by hindus is disasterous .
@@shaan4308 the same chinese communists killed 60 million of their own citizens run concentration camps , have destroyed all culture within their country and have fallen into middle income trap . They have huge problems of debt and house building and demographic crises which will effect them in the 2040s and bring them down or at least weaken them . While the west is the richest society , china copied capitalism to be middle income but couldnt progress higher because of its dictator . Democratic india is well on its path to become the third largest economy in 2030 without having murdered its citizens or taken away their freedoms . So sorry for not being enthusiastic in the chinese model .
@@shaan4308 tum brahmin tanashahi ki e sapne dekhte raho. Jaise reservation hatne ke sapne dekhte ho . Humne to abhi tumhien tokhna chalu hi Kiya hai. Kashmir se to khatam ho hi Gaye ho . Tamil Nadu se Tamil tumhien bahar nikal hi chuke hain. Maharashtra,Punjab ,Kereala aur Bengal mein tumhari koi pooch nahin . Bahut jald hum UP Bihar maine bhi tumhien sidha kar denge .
One question I want to ask you are the people from same caste united? For ex Most liberals, left leaning people are from upper cast, and they hate Hinduism to their core.
Dalits also need decoloniality from Brahminism so they can see they are not hindus but slaves for hindus aka Brahmins . Dr.Suraj yengde is doing great work in this field . Also Vaman Mesharam ji is doing that . These brahmin think that we will listen to another brahmin J Sai Deepak and belive that our lived experience is due to British
Ok, so only Brahmins are Hindus, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas are not Hindus that makes sense. I am against the caste system myself but what you're saying is nothing but bullshit
@Jagdish Rajpurohit yup u are correct . Even here in Gujarat Patidars are more casteist . Yahan ke Brahmin to bechare jyadatar katha satsang mein busy hote hain .
@@sauryavikramsingh8189 well baniyas and kshtriyas are weapons of Brahmins . Unko to palana hi padega kshtriya bahujan ko marenge baniye bahujan ka khoon choosenge aur brahmin Raj katenge
@Jagdish Rajpurohit Jaat ,Gujjar ,Patel ye sab apne ko kshtriya mante hain . Brahminism mein kshtriya ko power de gayi hai isliye wo shudron ka daman karte hain . By brahmin we mean Brahminical system created by Brahmins .
@Jagdish Rajpurohit ab rajasthan ek bimaru state hai to wahan se tum jaise gadhi ke jane hi liklenge. Kshtriya ek varna hota hai jo ye sabhi caste claim karte hain . Kshtriya ja direct matlab rajput nahin ho jata . Gujjar aur rajput dono mante hain pirthviraj Chauhan unke samaj se tha jiski vajah se unme jhagara bhi hota hai par dono hi mante hai ki vo kshtriya tha . Par tum jaise gawanar jinhe caste dynamics ka kucch pata nahin wo kya samajhenge .
Well there's a lot of casteism in Buddhism ( right from the pali canon) and Jainism as well, if your view of casteism revolves around Brahmins I'm sorry to say you don't understand even c of casteism, I've seen obc caste and even my own dalit community being equally casteist infact for OBCs I've seen more casteist OBCs than Brahmins tbvh
You say that you represent the ‘Kushal Mehra Pant’ and move ahead. Harsh should say that Harsh belongs to ‘Harsh Pant’ and move ahead on the basis of mutual respect which is present in all the indigenous pants in Bharat. There is no contradiction. You just are obsessed with the other guy conceding to you on the primacy of the individual. If you go down that route, you are just saying that ‘I am a global citizen’. Without realising that ‘global’ would in that case be the largest possible pant, defeating your own cause. Hence, grow some brains and see that giving primacy to the individual is a less intellectual and limited concept than recognising the group as a unit. One is a subset of the other. You can limit the group size to ‘1’ but you cannot enlarge the individual size to ‘>2’. All these are basic arguments. But your obsession makes you delusional.
Also, Indian society is not like Hobbes and other western Social contract theories which are based on a negotiation. It is more organic. Unfortunately, you don’t understand one cent of that. Mutual respect as a concept can sustain only when it is organic. Otherwise, on a negotiated contract basis, mutual respect can never sustain. You just don’t get such basic ideas.
Amazing discussion, needs further exploration, must invite Harsh again!
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1:27:56 I absolutely agree with this concept. I always wish to see a global approach being taken to help indigenous cultures from Abrahamic encroachment. Also I don't believe in trying to make non Hindus into Hindus but rather encouraging them into embracing their own indigenous cultures including deities whether they consider them to be Hindu or non Hindu I'm not much bothered.
The irony here is that folks talking about decoloniality do not say for one moment that we should probably learn sanskrit and study our works and interpret them. Instead, they recommend reading translations Griffith, Wilsons and Jameson. The point of Decoloniality is to build your own interpreted set of texts. Why Griffith, Wilson or Jameson. You cannot find Indian translations of these works translated to English by Indians? Or are you folks looking for legitimacy? The subtle ways in which coloniality pervades is difficult to unearth.
Well open the skandhapuran translated by Shastri and Lahiri ...from Geeta press. It's 22.7 chapter is full of venom against atheists. So Shastri and Lahiri ...these two brahman sanskrit scholars are agents of Nehru or chamcha of Max Muller ...right ?
Loved the podcast . Please do more of such long form podcasts .
Are you new here? Kushal only does long form podcasts
@@theriam6281 no this format is new , earlier it used to be 30 minutes and then questions , in monologues , this is a semi long form , i really love the podcasts where the time limit is 2 hr plus and it is constant discussion like the free speech one , or decoloniality one .
One thing u people didn't discuss is how women empowerment play a role in demeaning casteism.
Now due to education and employment women have freedom and agency so they can choose partner irrespective of caste and religion .
That's why TRADS are against women empowerment.
The more women get liberated the more we see less endogamy .
Not exactly. Rather they are similar to the Shariyat guys. They rather have you under their authoritarian control rather than under your own free choice.
@@natalkumar6132 ha ha iam not a girl okay .
And what does women freedom has to do with shariyat ?
@Jagdish Rajpurohit Bro let me tell u one thing in my experience as long as u look good and have a fat pocket no one really cares about caste .
@Jagdish Rajpurohit ha ha .
Mine is a dwivedi whom I knew from childhood .
And shayad mere marne tak ya uske baad bhi mere piccha nahin chodegi .
Which would make sense if less endogamy was the only goal worth striving for in society. This is too simplistic of an opinion. Women have a way bigger role to play in a family based system (for the masses) than men and therefore are expected to have a much higher standard of conduct with respect to the family . Men, as bread winners in a relatively violent world, are held accountable for worldly conduct to make money, not as much for family dynamics . It's not like in a varna/jati based system women did not contribute to the workforce at all, it was more for the purpose of furthering the family profession than just earning money .Please do not equate employability with agency or empowerment. The more a person is engaged in the work force, the less he or she is engaged with the family. It is far more detrimental for a family for the woman to be poorly engaged with the family than for the man.
Harsh makes some excellent points here.
Very good discussion, this creates hope for better society in future 👍
In simple word, at least for the time being, decoloniality should mean getting rid of Abrahamic/ Judeo Christian world view, at least theoritically , and then see what is there within.
Are what is abrahamic judeochristian mindset, you tell me specifically , is being rational abrahamic , is believing in objectivity ( facts ) abrahamic , is believing in individual liberties abrahamic , is freedom of speech , thought and expression abrahamic , is freedom to religion abrahamic , is equality before law abrahamic , is science abrahamic ?
Why do you say judeochristian and try to fool yourself , say it openly that you are not rational , feelings matter more to you than truth , truth doesnt exist according to you , individuals having no rights is fine by you , free speech is bad becouse you cant criticise the gods , freedom to religion is bad because conversions happen , equality should not exist , science is a western construct and indigenous science is better than western science .
Is this what is meant by removing the judeochristian outlook ?
@@trisamudeshwar7184 lemme give certain examples
Like the over obsession with history (basically you can't deny the prophets, otherwise you're commiting blasphemy), looking things at binary (my way or highway, which is something neoatheists do as well), being tolerant only but not accepting (basically tolerance means you're a peace of shit so I'm tolerating you, acceptance means tho I don't like what is your path but I respect your path and the right to do so too), the obsession with book (ERP types), I can go on and on
@@aditya-rt4zb first , obsession with history is one of the features which hindus lack so much which we are now starting to recover .
All other points are about orthodox christianity and islam but t hats not what decoloniality is against , it is aginst modernity which are the points i stated earlier .
In his recent podcast jsd says blasphemy is not justified and it is the hindus who are weak , so he is as obsessed with blasphemy as the abrahamics .
I am giving the west mutual respect , it is the decoloniality folks who say west is evil and we must remove western influence , in that sense you are even worse than tolerance because you are motivated by disgust at a society which has been more successful . It is a classic case of slave mentality .
@@trisamudeshwar7184 How cute! Nice try. You probably understood very well what I meant by Abrahamic/Judeo-christian world view. And that's why the burnol moment. If not , then go and educate yourself.
@@ppchowdhury9332 when you dont have the brain cells to explain yourself you think other people explaining is burnol . The only burnol that is needed is for your mind .
You mentioned 2 to 3 points which were fair which you also do , so you are just as bad as them for doing it . Neither did you counter any of my points i mentioned about modernity nor have you replied to my comments on you .
This is the marxist false consciousness that harsh talks about .
Harsh is exactly right. All pre-industrial, agrarian, feudal societies around the world had some version varna and Jati. These ideas are not unique to Hindu society. It served a purpose at one point. As other societies industrialized and prospered, all opportunities became increasingly open to all people. This helped these societies develop and prosper more as it expanded the talent base. If we wish to become a developed, 21st century nation, we must evolve.
Feudal system were in no way similar to caste system. Caste was sanctioned and restricted by scriptures on racial, ethnic basis. Feudal structures naturally arose out of class structures. There were no cultural or racial difference between two feudal class in pre-industrial europe.
@@darkprince2490 bharata my foot. Gobarbhakt gaumutra-desh
@@Aman-qr6wi I liked your first comment but after reading your second comment I removed it.
There is no race base for this caste. Not even Dr. Ambedkar subscribes to this view.
Watch World of Antiquity. Channel.
@@Aman-qr6wiThere are no major ethnic or racial differences between the various Indian castes. True, the Brahmins may have more Caucasoid genes in them than Dalits - but there is no exclusivity of genetic composition. There can be Dalits with a lot of Caucasoid traits also. Castes evolved by endogamy within vocational communities over a long period of time. And the powerful castes - the rulers and the priests promoted endogamy and eventually the caste divisions became distinct and consolidated.
Bring harsh more often!
Harsh Madhusudhan Gupta ka bolne ka style Raj Thackarey jaisa hai :)
The real authenticity in Sanatana dharm is that there is no single authentic path to truth. No "my way or highway" attituded, no cutting of throats.
@Vibhor Srivastava Yes, but here I am speaking about Sanatan Dharma as whole.
Varna Jati system is highly complex and nonlinear system. Context is very much essential to have a meaningful discussion .
@Vibhor Srivastava but sanatan dharma isn't geeta either
Eastern cultures are the most rigid ones be it korean, Chinese, Japanese, Indian. The way u put it 'tolerance of paths' leaves u open to very bad ideas. How will u reject them. Mainly human sacrifice, all polytheist religions had that and all were accepted.
Carl Jung said polytheism brings confusion and monotheism brings uniformity.
@@MohitKumar-jf8lz yes this thing is there. this create subjective morality and stop the moral progress. on the other hand monotheism ha strong laws for blashphemy
And to the query that decolonization to what extent, well, no single individual, no top down injunctions, probably a prior condition of decolonization
I believe any qualified person should hold any position in this world.
One needs a(many) powerful State(s) to defend this worldview.
Why is decoloniality dangerous .
It is based on a clear assumption that modernity is a western construct and as it is western it is christian as it is christian it is bad . This view is wrong on multiple fromts , modernity is distinctly a reaction against christianity and not its supporter . Its iconography comes from greco roman culture which was polytheistiec like ours and hence dharmic . But they didnt just stop at greco roman they expnaded it to such a great extent and wrote hundreds of masterpieces on politics philosophy economics fiction music etc .
Now these people say modernity is bad , then what is modernity and what are its values , let us leave aside labels , what does a modern person believe in and then decide which is better . A modern person believes that man has fundamental rights by virtue of his births and his inalienable right is exchanged for security by the state . In addition he has a duty to keep his freedom and others freedom from encroachment by fellow persons or the state .
He believes in equality of birth in that man is born free and equal and no one is higher or lower based on his birth .
He believes in fraternity or bhaichara and treating everyone equally and respectfully .
He believes in rationality and logic takes presedence over feelings , and sound judgement is made by the mind and not the heart .
He takes a laissez-faire approach to religion and respects it but does not turn fanatic or fundamentalist .
Are these bad traits to have ? If these are western creations and if hinduism is anti west then any sound judge will say that the wesrern system is better .
The solution is hindutva which is hindu modernity which encorporates these values within the hindus and wins political social and cultural victories .
Not completely true modernity still has many Abrahamic roots and they are forcing it on other cultures. I am not against modernity but I don't want western culture as it will destroy our culture and with all due respect Indian culture is worth preserving.
@@punyashloka4946 what indian culture are you protecting , is jati indian culture , group rights over individual rights is indian culture , not having rights is indian culture .
Define indian culture first .
Are uske greco roman roots hai , greco roman were our brothers , they were also indo aryan toh modernity ke roots toh dharmic hai par nahi tumhe abrahamic abrahamic karte rehna hai .
If all the above points are abrahamic then i am an abrahamic , i know these are not abrahamic but if you think they are then i am abrahamic and hindutva is too .
@@trisamudeshwar7184 wow what a logic 👏 Greco-Roman indo eruopean do not exist anymore they are wiped out long time ago todays west is based on Christianity which is an Abrahamic religion 🙄. And yes jati varna is Indian culture, family system is Indian culture, family lineages is Indian system, groups and communities are Indian culture and there is nothing wrong it 😀. India had always been land of communities and large structured families not individuals. And this drama of inequality is not unique to India only, this is universal, Africa has inequality nobody is asking Africans to leave their culture, Chinese has inequality han supremacy is rampant their but no body is asking them to leave their culture, islamic countries have rampant inequality like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, even rich countries like katar , Saudi Arabia has inequality in their society but nobody dares to even question them, even a country like Japan has inequality but nobody ask a Japanese to leave their culture but when it comes to hindus every body start playing humanitarian card ,demean us and then force us to leave our culture very biased. And what human rights you are talking about what China is doing to ugurs Muslims and civilians of honkong is equality, what Pakistan does to hindu minority is equality, how Americans treat blacks is equality, how Saudi Arabia treats shia Muslims is equality bullshit. Indian society far more tolerant than other countries things are not perfect but no country is perfect in the world.
@@punyashloka4946 so you will treat dalits like shit , wont let them near water , make them suffer .
What family system , joint or nuclear , i leve in a nuclear family and am very happy and am in no mood for joint family .
You will destroy all the progresswe have made in the last 100 years .
If you think jati varna is indian culture then this culture must be crushed and destroyed it deserves destruction and i will be the first to destroy it .
If indian society has no individual rights and freedom of thought then it is a hellhole which needs to be destroyed .
Every regressive policy is indian according to you , if this is dharma then it is shit , if people like you ever become the majority in hindutva i will be the first to destroy this evil .
These progressive values are descended from a religious sect called Protestantism which happens to be a direct descendant of Puritans. We live a Puritan theocracy, we just don't call it that.
Who are kayashtha ? I am listening it for the first time...is there any other name for that caste ?
Kushal appreciate your share. Please look into the number of ads. Simply too many. Defaul youtube settings sometimes can ruine the experience. Please manully control it.
Kushal ji what is modernity according to you and who defines what is modernity
Beautiful
All societies have a social hierarchy. For India it was codified. However the Vedas may mention caste but they tell to discriminate by caste.
Harsha is wrong in the sense that individual person cannot change Varna. There are thousands of references in Puranans and Vedas. Famous example is Bishwamitra switched to Brahmin from Kshatriya. Risi Matanga switched from Chandala. King Harishchandra switched from Kshatriya to Chandala to Kshatriya in the same birth.
Count those 1000s names here please, meherbani hogi
He's talking about Indian history not scripture. Maybe he lost normies there.
Happens only in puranas, not in real life.
@Canterbury Tales arey me Google karlunga
Woh bataye to sahi
@@sushant5380 No, it is happening all over the world. Go to any ISKCON or Ramakrishna Mission or Arya Samaj temple around the world, anyone can be pujari (priest), monk and take the highest ranked positions based on JUST spiritual qualifications. ISKCON and Arya samaj even performs Upananan/jeneu sanskar for every qualified disciples. You will find even Black Africans wearing janeu in the western world and in Africa. I think the Shankaracharyas and most of the Advaitins have become rigid on caste except Kanchi Shankaracharya, who visited Dalits home and gave diksha.
1:34:45
refereeing to 1:01 mins around discussion, Bhadresh Swami did write text and even today it can be written and nobody stops you doing that.
👍
Abolish caste if you want reservation to go away. Will Brahmins marry Dalits?
Marriage is a personal choice , how can you force a community to marry against their choice 🤔. You people need to be rational ok and why you people want to marry brahmins anyway, they discriminated dalits for years they why you want to marry them.
Thats irrelevant point,
Put urself in gen-category , and stand side by side
Ray Kurzweil says singularity will come in 2045.
Guys it's adwaita
kushal bhai podcast ko kat kat ke highlight update banavo
You need to maintain lifestyle discipline at home since childhood to study the Vedas. That’s a massive commitment.
Residential Patashalas can take very young kids and ensure lifestyle disciplines are maintained right from childhood. Let it be open to all young kids. This is far better than a 2 yr course that is currently being forced by the government. If Veda Patashalas offer a childhood pathway, the government will have far less room to meddle.
but most pathshalas dont allow shudra kids as they cannot perform yagyopavit
hence they cannot read vedas?
this is the thing that holds hindus back
@@justicebydeathnote arya samaj and ISKCON allow all castes to read VEDAS.
@@lfds8342 but majority pathshalas arent isckon or arya samaj's
People like puri shankaracharya are a major hindrace to this unity and play major part in creating mindsets that don't question themselves
@@justicebydeathnote Dude ISKCON is a VERY BIG hindu organization. If you want to learn vedas then join ISKCON, Arya Samaj and various other hindu organisation.
The whole world has Cast System. It is only India ( Hinduism ) that defined it in four divisions.
Grtting into the meanings of religion and spirituality ... premature.... and out of order for economists. Reading vedas does not give you an understanding of spirituality.
One point i would like to refute is this insistence that if we dont like the present system we must form a jati of our own .
This assumption looks fair to those who propose it but is actually the most idiotic as well as dangerous proposition . It basically says all reforms are bad because those who dont like the existing order can form a new group of their own ( more on this later ) . This shows the revulsion to change and reform , it basically says that all reformers should have just formed a jati of their own and cut themselves from the mainstream . It is an argument that only a traditio alist can make because for him his traditions are more important than the safety and security of his country and people . What happens in this view , is a society is rotting istead of changing it people must leave it and form a new society . Tell me then if i am leaving anyway why should i stay hindu when i dont agree with your practises but can advocate for change . Thus this insistence is basically saying anyone who doesnt like the present form of hindu society is not hindu and thus must form his own thing and get cut of frkm mainstream .
2. My objection to this is even deeper , you seem to think that we are against this views or that views and thus if we form a jati we will all be happy . But we are agaisnt jati or group itself . I may agree with kushal or harsh on one thing and disagree with them on others thats individualism but if we have to form a jati then agains those diferences will come so now i and harsh will form separate jati , thus little by little you will fracture hindu society , make it so divided that it will fall . Once you bring such devision any hope of standing upto a foreign power vanishes . So the very thing you seem to attack will end up defeating you .
Let me present two scenarios , one is hindutva other is decoloniality .
In hindutva all hindus ns well as indians are equal , they are the sons and daughters of bharat mata equal before her eyes . The state sees them as equals without regard for hingh and low . The hindus are citizens of india and directly elect the government as per theri individual conscience and choice . Hindus are united in basic opposition to forces that seek their destruction and after that they are people having different opinions of different things . They have the right to follow whatever practise they want as individuals . Such a hindu society is free , openminded and strong whose starting has already happened ( up elections are a clear dilution of caste )
Second is decoloniality , here society is consisted of groups , every person is associalted with a group . A person can be a part of many groups at the same time but let us forget that because why not . The purpose of the state becomes to navigate between different group intersets , always at odds with each other for the same resource . Politically it will be divided into different jatis which kills their ability to unite . Any dissemt is just brushed aside by saying form a jati of your own without regard for the fact that in this world groups uave power and thus if a person leaves a group he will certainly be hindered by members of that group . A person will be an indian not by virtue of being an indian but because he is a say a baniya or a tamil . So his being indian is derived from his identity as a baniya or a tamil not as an indian . Any sane person will see how this is dangerous .
@@shaan4308 toh khul kar bolo na democracy jae bhad me .
@@shaan4308 i dont want a hindu society of the past , hindu society of the past is a horrible way to organise ourselves . It is divided into different groups more interested in fighting ( which in decolonial paradigm is called negotiating) with each other , where individual liberties are crushed , where men are slaves of the caste they are borne in . I dont want a return to hindu society of the past .
@@shaan4308 i dont have a right to militate against people following their traditions , but to impose traditio alist structure on me and my society which has thankfully gotten rid of it is something which i will not accept and i will fight it tooth and nail .
If you want to follow a tradition you have the full right to , but to put me into this jati structure is horrible . I am a free hindu working for a modern hindu society and to say i must distnce myself from the mainstream or to again divide the hindus is something again which i will never accept .
Had this theory been made by the left i would have understood as it is clearly based on postmodern principles , for such a theory to be endorsed by hindus is disasterous .
@@shaan4308 the same chinese communists killed 60 million of their own citizens run concentration camps , have destroyed all culture within their country and have fallen into middle income trap . They have huge problems of debt and house building and demographic crises which will effect them in the 2040s and bring them down or at least weaken them . While the west is the richest society , china copied capitalism to be middle income but couldnt progress higher because of its dictator .
Democratic india is well on its path to become the third largest economy in 2030 without having murdered its citizens or taken away their freedoms . So sorry for not being enthusiastic in the chinese model .
@@shaan4308 tum brahmin tanashahi ki e sapne dekhte raho.
Jaise reservation hatne ke sapne dekhte ho .
Humne to abhi tumhien tokhna chalu hi Kiya hai.
Kashmir se to khatam ho hi Gaye ho .
Tamil Nadu se Tamil tumhien bahar nikal hi chuke hain.
Maharashtra,Punjab ,Kereala aur Bengal mein tumhari koi pooch nahin .
Bahut jald hum UP Bihar maine bhi tumhien sidha kar denge .
Camera le lo bhai ek.
6:30
8:30
India's Varna vyavastha was fight against communism!
rubbish
@@fealdorf it has its bi varna system. The haves and the have nots.
@@fealdorf No society in the world is classless as said by Sai Deepak too. Complete classless society is a communist Pipedream.
@@AKumar-co7oe May be you are a fan of rubbish kumar!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Chapter no 9 Shlokas no 32 says shudra and women are born in papyoni 😢😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Papyoni
jāti-dharmāḥ
kula-dharmāś ca śāśvatāḥ
One question I want to ask you are the people from same caste united? For ex Most liberals, left leaning people are from upper cast, and they hate Hinduism to their core.
Dalits also need decoloniality from Brahminism so they can see they are not hindus but slaves for hindus aka Brahmins .
Dr.Suraj yengde is doing great work in this field .
Also Vaman Mesharam ji is doing that .
These brahmin think that we will listen to another brahmin J Sai Deepak and belive that our lived experience is due to British
Ok, so only Brahmins are Hindus, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas are not Hindus that makes sense. I am against the caste system myself but what you're saying is nothing but bullshit
@Jagdish Rajpurohit yup u are correct .
Even here in Gujarat Patidars are more casteist .
Yahan ke Brahmin to bechare jyadatar katha satsang mein busy hote hain .
@@sauryavikramsingh8189 well baniyas and kshtriyas are weapons of Brahmins .
Unko to palana hi padega kshtriya bahujan ko marenge baniye bahujan ka khoon choosenge aur brahmin Raj katenge
@Jagdish Rajpurohit Jaat ,Gujjar ,Patel ye sab apne ko kshtriya mante hain .
Brahminism mein kshtriya ko power de gayi hai isliye wo shudron ka daman karte hain .
By brahmin we mean Brahminical system created by Brahmins .
@Jagdish Rajpurohit ab rajasthan ek bimaru state hai to wahan se tum jaise gadhi ke jane hi liklenge.
Kshtriya ek varna hota hai jo ye sabhi caste claim karte hain .
Kshtriya ja direct matlab rajput nahin ho jata .
Gujjar aur rajput dono mante hain pirthviraj Chauhan unke samaj se tha jiski vajah se unme jhagara bhi hota hai par dono hi mante hai ki vo kshtriya tha .
Par tum jaise gawanar jinhe caste dynamics ka kucch pata nahin wo kya samajhenge .
Ye ek ghr mein kaise agay tumlog 😂😂😂 ajeeb lagraha hai
casteism will never end in Hinduism because it is a religion of Brahmins by Brahmins for Brahmins .
Yup, sure thing bud, I am pretty sure u don't know shit about Hinduism.
The greatest proponents against varna system are "Brahmins". So, sit down kid.
Well there's a lot of casteism in Buddhism ( right from the pali canon) and Jainism as well, if your view of casteism revolves around Brahmins I'm sorry to say you don't understand even c of casteism, I've seen obc caste and even my own dalit community being equally casteist infact for OBCs I've seen more casteist OBCs than Brahmins tbvh
@@sameerturki4317 The greatest supporters are also brahmins.
The greatest opponents are educated Dalits.
YES and its best that way coz Dwijas are the best
You say that you represent the ‘Kushal Mehra Pant’ and move ahead. Harsh should say that Harsh belongs to ‘Harsh Pant’ and move ahead on the basis of mutual respect which is present in all the indigenous pants in Bharat. There is no contradiction. You just are obsessed with the other guy conceding to you on the primacy of the individual. If you go down that route, you are just saying that ‘I am a global citizen’. Without realising that ‘global’ would in that case be the largest possible pant, defeating your own cause.
Hence, grow some brains and see that giving primacy to the individual is a less intellectual and limited concept than recognising the group as a unit. One is a subset of the other. You can limit the group size to ‘1’ but you cannot enlarge the individual size to ‘>2’. All these are basic arguments. But your obsession makes you delusional.
Also, Indian society is not like Hobbes and other western Social contract theories which are based on a negotiation. It is more organic. Unfortunately, you don’t understand one cent of that. Mutual respect as a concept can sustain only when it is organic. Otherwise, on a negotiated contract basis, mutual respect can never sustain. You just don’t get such basic ideas.