God of War Ragnarök Critique - Still Not a Masterpiece
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- I hope you guys enjoy the video!
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A Game That Tells Two Stories 0:00
Part 1: An Amazing Beginning 4:05
Part 2: The Great Combat System 19:01
Part 3: The Death of Cinema & Trash Puzzles 28:04
Part 4: A Disappointing End 40:46
Part 5: The Prophesied Plot Hole 55:52
Plot Holes and inconsistent character writings aside, one of my biggest gripes with the story is that they transformed a rich mythology and mythological figures into some sort of an american high school drama with the awkward kid, the love interest and bullies.. Norsemen should be acting like Norse would do, esp gods, they should not be behaving like modern age americans.
The "american high school drama" criticism works only for Atreus' part. The Norse gods very much act like how they're supposed, they're dialogue just feels a tad modern but that was there from 2018 too.
Absolutely. Preach.
@@josephchristophermcdonalda6666no
@The God Of War. For real, GOW3 felt more like Ragnarok than this game.
Maybe because that's what their prefered approach? I felt that all gods in this game is more humanized, less grandiose compared to greek GoW. The way they speak, the way behave, their appearance are more 'human'.
Which ofc, made their motivations more human-like. They manipulate each others, kill each others, they look rough, they were even seemingly not immortal.
Personally, i'm not a huge fan of that tho
The forest section with Agraboda was longer and more fleshed out than Ragnarok itself.....and that is a Travesty
I despise the “puzzles” in this game. They aren’t challenging and more often than not they don’t reward you with anything special. They always felt like an inconvenience that stopped the fun I was having in its tracks. Overall, seemed like there were a lot of things added in places that weren’t needed and only hindered the experience of playing. Love the combat and the spear though.
The Norir chests were fun the first 5 times then they became very very annoying and dull. Same with a lot of puzzles really
It’s extremely validating to see other people feel the same way about the conclusion
You must have pronouns in your bio huh
@@efreq.6465 what?
I call the non-puzzles: “Where’s Waldo” moments
Accurate
The game just flew too close to the sun. Ragnarok and prophecy was something the team couldn't deliver on. They picked these very ambitious main points for the plot and couldn't deliver on them. GOW 2018 had a much simpler plot but damn it was executed perfectly and holds a very special place in my heart.
One game and a half wasn't enough to build up to Ragnarok. And the defying prophecy theme to be executed in a proper way, required much better writters than this game had. Maybe Barlog should've continued his work with this sequel. He seemed to know what he was doing.
@@erliLilaimo, a lot of the shortcomings in the story telling could’ve easily been solved by naming this game “God of war fimbulwinter” and make GOW ragnarok its own game (basically the moment Kratos blew that horn)
Just a correction. When Odin said “if he dies then we are square for Heimdall” he was referring to Brok..as Sindri was calling Freya away from the confrontation to save Brok. Hence the “you got a bargain” right after. Implying Broks (a dwarf) life was nowhere near the worth of Heimdall..& I doubt Odin would’ve killed Atreus, he just dropped a body seconds before grabbing him lol I think if he actually wanted to kill him in that moment he would’ve
Yeah that's probably true.
@@feebleking21 Hey man I just finished your critique and I must admit that at first I believed it was simply going to be a generic hate video hating on a game for being popular, but I was positively surprised, it was an actual fair review with some very valid points, with a good script, great and an enjoyable over all narration. With that being said I wanted to discuss what is honestly my only major complaint of the video and I’d say that’s the misunderstanding of the ending of Ragnarok and how the prophecy works in the game.
I mainly wanted to point out that it is explained why the prophecy of Kratos dying during Ragnarok didn’t happen as predicted by the murals. Ragnarok is set up like a classic Greek tragedy, where a character usually learns about their tragic demise and in their fear of the prophecy becoming true they end up creating the path that leads to the prophecy becoming true. “One often meets their destiny in the road they take to avoid it” This is what happens to Freya who is so terrified of loosing Baldur after learning that he was destined to die that she inadvertently created the circumstances that lead to his death. It’s also what happens to Odin, who is so desperate and obsessed with avoiding his own prophesied demise he basically digs his own grave.
At first prophecy is set up in a way that it seems like it’s inevitable and that the outcome of prophecy is un changing but this isn’t really the case.The Norns even reveal that faith isn’t actually real, but characters are so stubborn and unwilling to change their nature, that they become predictable which allows them to correctly guess how their story will end. Odin is obsessed with knowledge and prophecy so he’s going to end up dying searching for knowledge, Freya is an obsessive over protective mom so she’s going to get her son killed, Heimdall is an arrogant prick so he’s going to eventually pick a fight with the wrong guy and die, which will lead to Ragnarok. And it’s within Kratos’s nature to kill Gods for the sake of protecting his family, so he’s going to eventually find himself killing Heimdall and starting Ragnarok, ultimately dying during his encounter with Thor.
At first Kratos and Atreus are consumed by this fear of prophecy which leads them to inadvertently create the path that will lead to Ragnarok( In his fear of loosing Atreus, Kratos kills Heimdall and in his fear of loosing Kratos, Atreus serves Odin hoping it will prevent his fathers death but ironically it’s both of these storiy lines that directly lead to Ragnarok) But slowly Kratos and Atreus learn to let go of their fear over prophecy, instead deciding to enjoy what little time left they had together, choosing to not allow faith to determine their actions “Do what is necessary, not because it is written” So ultimately they both change their nature for the better, they choose a different path in the end. Instead of embracing their violent nature and kill Odin and Thor out of pure spite as dictated by the prophecy, they decide to sympathize with both of them and offer them a second chance, and by changing their nature their actions become unpredictable and thus the outcome of their prophecy becomes different. “It isn’t the form of a thing that matters you see, but it’s nature” By choosing Justice over blind vengeance and rage like he did in Gow 3. Kratos changes his nature an breaks his faith, while Odin dies because he refuses to change his nature and he takes Kratos’s place in the mural.
So it’s not so much that the prophecy was incorrect, but Kratos and Atreus broke the prophecy by overcoming their fear of prophecy and their fatal flaw(The Harmatia: a fatal flaw that in a classic Greek tragedy leads the hero into their ultimate downfall) essentially subverting the prophecy and the Greek tragedy structure
While the other characters in the story are ultimately consumed by their fatal flaw(Heimdall by his arrogance, Thor by his wrath and Odin by his fear of destiny) Kratos, Freya and Atreus are the only characters that overcome their fatal flaws and thus subvert destiny.
I think this is demonstrated pretty well during the final scene with the mask and the rift during the battle with Odin. For me the mask is more of a metaphor for the obsession of the characters with prophecy rather than an actual source of infinite knowledge. So while Odin is consumed by his obsession over faith and prophecy and refuses to let go, Kratos and Atreus decide to let go over their obsesión with faith and that is how they break their destiny, allowing them to create their own path.
If you check out Jon Fords interview with one of the lead writers of Ragnarok, the writer confirms that the moment Kratos spared Thors life is the moment he broke his faith, because Kratos changed his nature as a God killer during this scene. Had he embraced his violent nature as a God killer, he would’ve died at the hands of both Thor and Odin.
This is also why if you pay attention in the final mural of the game you will notice that the image of Kratos being worshipped was painted on top of the original prophecy that dictated that Kratos would die. Because Kratos’s wife Faye didn’t like the faith of her husband and child, so she broke the original mural and created her own path for Kratos and Atreus and discreetly guided them into the path that would break faith.(this is why the main path you follow throughout the game is already marked by the paint that Faye uses, it’s the trail she left behind for her husband and child to follow)
Basically the whole point of the game is that faith isn’t real, our lives aren’t determined by a greater cause and no one is doomed to a single path of no return, because people will always have the opportunity to change the course of their lives for the better. So Kratos and Atreus breaking Faith by changing their nature for the better is rather a fitting end for a franchise that is all about change and how it’s never to late to redirect your life.
If you wish to hear a better explanation of the story’s main theme, I recommend watching Jon Fords videos on the subject or if you don’t mind I did a video on my own channel called “How did Kratos break faith?” In case your interested in a more detailed explanation.
But regardless I still liked you review, it was pretty well written and edited and even though I didn’t agree with every point you still had some valid points I agree with. Good job man, keep up the good work.
@@feebleking21 O yeah also, if I’m not mistaken it’s not so much that Heimdall can read minds,but rather he has a supernatural intuition that allows him to predict the actions of others. So while Heimdall can predict that Kratos would through the spear I’m guessing that his intuition is limited only by other people and not objects, so he’s un able to predict that the spear would explode, which gives Kratos the opportunity to use the distraction and over populate Heimdalls senses giving Kratos the chance to actually hit Heimdall.
@@shadowdan1177correction, its in Kratos' nature to have Death everywhere around him and not just Gods for the sake of his family
Odin was also a massive let down. The king of the gods?? Had that clever plot twist only to lose like an average boss fight. Smh
The character of him was the better written and acted but as a boss fight it sucks, the fact that he does not get a brutal death make his fight even worse
@@ryhansbek i agree Cory Barlog should’ve ended this saga.
For both Thor and his father, it was a huge let down. The fight the Baldur at least had some scale, stakes, and a lot of tension.
The final boss fights were so bland.
“Clever” only if you’re 9 years old. You could see that coming from a mile away
@@misaeltoral508 that he was Odin this whole time? Definitely was cleaver af. He was 10 steps ahead of everyone. You're full of 💩 if you're saying you knew the whole time
One thing that really bugged me is how much characters openly talked about extremely sensitive information when Odin, a god of knowledge is well known for his surveillance. It's a detail of the world that actively conflicts with western game design and isn't ever addressed
They did address it with the realm between realms odin can't get there and other than disguising himself as tyr, he had no other way to get there and the only reason he could travel freely once there was because he left a raven in his room
@@larrydewesse655 That seems like an inherent contradiction to me. Plus they still talk about stuff all the time outside of the yygdrasil.
@@adudeontheinternet8246 how is it inherently a contradiction they brought it up in 2018 with the hiding the gate to Jotunheim in the realm between realms without a backdoor in, in this case the raven in the broom closet, Odin can't freely travel there. And I agree they do though, majority of the time if kratos thinks it's sensitive information he says something like not here or another time
@@larrydewesse655 Odin can't freely travel there, but he has been there. His presence alone exposes a lot of sensitive info Kratos and Co. Were trying to keep hidden-- like how the vid mentioned that Odin didn't intervene in Heimdall's death when he knew what Kratos'es plan was. This might've only been when "Tyr" was around, sure, but Odin doesn't strike me as the type of guy who'd be okay with not knowing what his enemies were saying, whether they be in the dwarf brother's house or out of it.
I hadn’t thought of that. I was too busy fuming over riding a damn yak for a huge portion of the game.
The story really bogged the game down for me. It was clearly supposed to be trilogy but then, what I assumed late in development decided to shove 2 games into one. Creating a bunch of disjointed plot lines, a bunch of filler, and a whole lot of useless reasons to make every thing 3 steps longer to solve. They kept hour of filler content in, yet they utterly fail to make the most important events more fleshed out. Ragnarok the most important event in the entire norse mythology, millions of soldiers across from every race, gods fighting, huge speeches delivered to armies, Rganarok could've been half the game. Most of that happens off screen. You never see your armies beyond scripted counters. You give your grandiose speeches to 6 people. Only 2 fights between real gods happen. If you're good at the game you could beat in 45 minutes. You never fight surtur, characters only pop to fulfill their one singular role in scripted events. It literally is just a bunch of mobs placed in asgard with two boss fights. That is Ragnarok. What the entire game has been building up to. The entire game with a massive publisher, massive budget, all the hype in the world, and you hardly every see more then 4 characters on screen at once. so much for creating movie like game. This may sound nitpicking but it is literally the end of the series at this point, 30 plus hours of game hyping up this one point. It's been hyped up since the the 2018 game. I'm baffled how they messed it up this badly. Most of the filler shlock I looked past because it was setting up the ending war. After I finished the game I just looked back on all the quest I had to do and felt most of the stuff was a complete waste. I don't how to check playtime on ps5 but I would reckon I only got 4 hours of amazing well worth it game time. Whereas I got well worth time for pretty much all of 2018. I really liked the combat and some of the character but for game where it's main selling point and development time is the story, even if objectivity the story was average the amount of effort put into it ruins the entire game if you don't like it.
I definitely agree that a game with Ragnarok in the title should have made the actual Ragnarok event a lot better. After thinking about it more I should I have talked more in the critique about the missed potential of this event.
Why would you want to fight Surtr?? He's supposed to be our ally in the game & at the end at the end fullfils his purpose of destroying Asgard. And no story can be "objectively avg" all art is subjective.
@@josephchristophermcdonalda6666 because it would have been better narrative wise if you had to fight him to prove your were worthy of his help, and honestly the whole surtr plot point felt so rushed in what feels like 2 minutes surtr goes from not wanting to help to helping for the dumbest reason.
@@RicKo5896 why would it make sense to fight surtr mate? He also decided to help because the blades have primordial fire in them so he can channel his and sinmaras energy into the blades. You can’t just say “it feels rushed” and not listen to what they’re saying.
@@juwyjewy652 Because what Surtr is saying feels rushed. The reason why he accepts to help you feels rushed. Hell, Surtr himself, as a character, feels rushed.
I just feel like Cory Balrog leaving the game in the hands of the other guy (forgot his name) hurt the progression of the story. It is more of a family soap opera than a God Of War game.
Dude yes. Its literally a sob story for thor. Terrible writing
@@aaron_aplin especially the drunk part. It's like watching a family TV drama . Nothing like what gow could be or was .
@YourWrld
He wasnt scary or menacing at all. The writing was so bad that they couldnt make him seem like the terrifying Thor the first game made him out to be, so they just made him curse a lot to make him seem more menacing. That was their biggest crutch in that game - cursing. Just lots of cursing.
Developers: Sir, we're having trouble making Thor scary and menacing. What should we do?
Writers and Directors: Just make him curse a lot and leave it at that. That should do it.
Just awful and lazy game development.
@@aaron_aplin exactly man. He was just a sad dude in this game. It was such a odd direction. I thought we were gonna see his true power at the end. The one who literally sent the serpent back thru time. Odin , I thought we were gonna see his true power . His spells. His horse. Thor's goats. But nothing. Nothing at all. Even thrud was just.....idek. she wasn't anything appealing to me. She wasnt interesting. She didn't show some cool power. And she was a kid..... They messed up big time. I can only appreciate what they did with kratos and him overcomirg his fear of falling back to his old ways and accepting that his son will live a life that will be without him at times. But everything else was a huge L. They even had thor throwing up like what the F*** was that.....
@YourWrld
On point, bro. And maybe i just missed it, but did they not reveal who blew the serpent horn in the first game?
I could also rant forever about Tyr being an NPC doing yoga all over the maps.
I mean what even is that?
43:34 he was in God of war 2 and he did help selflessly and it's more sad when he had to fight one of them and mistakenly kills him. Odin saying that and kratos not replying with that made me angry because the developers ignored that part and cherry picked bad parts of the original series to make kratos look bad so the end part where he is worshiped by people as a good god can look emotional but it's just stupid. Because in God of war 2 the dude comes down to help people who worship him now that's a dedicated god.
I was going to comment something like this, the fact that Kratos didn’t reply anything to Odin just destroys that moment. Even if you make the case that Kratos didn’t really care for the spartans and did everything just for himself, he is no different from Zeus or Odin.
He could have replied that he do know how it is to be worshipped and that he used to be just like Odin or something like that, but he is just mute.
@@max1311 yeah. The only reason this kratos works for me because I know the history of this guy from the past 6 games. Other than kratos and Loki every god is weird. Freya overprotective mother who makes his son immortal at the same time takes his sense to feel basically making the guy insane , Thor drunk who beats his own son (modi) like his in the UFC because he has daddy issue and the biggest of all Odin. I have read norse mythology peoms and people translating them Odin looks way to old and real Odin from the Norse still is a huge guy even if his old. But let's assume THIS weak mafia gang leader looking ass is Odin so you're telling me Freya married this dumbass and thor wants THIS man's attention and approval? Like Damn? MCU handle Odin well then this. Odin should be what kratos is in this game a guy who did alot bad things using violence. In Odin's case violence and manipulation. And now is a wise old man who still is manipulating but knows how to hide it. Saying Odin makes him look goffy because that's his manipulating technique is just stupid. So yeah love the new god of war games but DAMN they f**k all them god's and make them k drama Queens.
He is also in Gow Ghost of Sparta and Gives Kratos the Spartan Spear and Spartan Shield.
You think he’s proud of massacring armies as the god of war? You think he’s just gonna turn around and say “actually people used to pray to me to kill their enemies” he’s being worshipped at the end as a protector not a destroyer.
You are cherry picking good Kratos aspects
The focus in the good games wasn't that, it's moronic to read too mutch into them besides what's already there, yes It had emotional stuff, but that's Reading trough the chrystalization of nostalgia and knowing the character from an external prospective
43:30 this made god of war 2 hit a lot harder even than when i played it. i think that scene where he fought one of his own spartans was a lot better crafted than i gave it credit for
God of war 2 is the best one.
The best theory I heard is that Brok calling out Odin subverted prophecy. In the same way that the mermaid was unable to interact with Brok because he had no soul, the Norns and Giants were unable to account for him in their prophecy's. If Brok had not have figured out that Odin was Tyr, Odin would have taken everyone to Asgard and be killed fulfilling the prophecy.
That wasn’t the prophecy?
I like this theory actually and would explain why like almost half the prophecies never came true cuz Brok was never in the picture all along. Brok da MVP
Tyr calling Atreus by the name Loki made sense to me. Earlier in the story, Tyr learned some things about Atreus involving prophecy, his lineages and the path that Atreus, himself, was pushing.
At this point with everything that happened and was happening, yeah, I'd say it made sense.
So many people are calling it suspicious. When it comes to writing Tyr, I am certain that the writers asked themselves What would the real Tyr say that is in line with the fake Tyr. So much falls in line with both. Yes, the fake Tyr would call Atreus by the name Loki but the real Tyr would too. It is easy to explain both.
Tyr was never set up to be like kratos, all mimirs stories and murals in 2018 depict him as a peacekeeper and prophet like god who was able to gain everyone's trust
There is a difference between being a peace keeper and ignoring evil and being a pacifist lil bich.
Kratos didn't die in the end because he didn't kill thor and convinced him at his last moment to be better and telling atreus to open his hart to people's suffering, if it wasn't for that kratos somehow (probably because of thor) would have died and atreus in his desperation would have used the mask to find answers thus becoming Loki the champion of the jotnar and Odin's son
Imagine having arkham's grappling technique in this game where almost every edge is accessible with L1. Glorious.
Also, it's just easier to zoom out during combats and close in during cut scenes, organically. I mean games 15 years ago had done it.
Hell uncharted 4 did this flawlessly with basically zero loading screens while also having the camera perspective way farther out
You mean Sekiro?
@@lindseyormsbee yea that might work too
Hell rven arkham does this. Batman is close up outside of combat, and in combat he has a wider fov
This game commits to the "behind shoulder" camera angle to portrait a seamless journey so hard that it actively damage the experience. Truly amazing. The fact that enemies can do a 90-180 degree dodge but your camera fumbles the bag and can't keep up, so it uses dumbass trick like having Atreus shouting "behind you" and then danger arrow.
My personal theory was that Odin prevented the prophecy from coming true by impersonating Tyr. That actually put everything into unknown territory, leading to the incomplete ragnarok and allowing Kratos to avoid his fate.
love your videos feeble!! there’s a misunderstanding w the close camera here though, it’s done for cinematic feel but also to have less objects to render so they can have more graphical detail, and also to hide the fact that most enemies will just stand there when offscreen, and wait their turn to attack you. the developers aren’t holding back the combat system, they specifically want to pare it back so you’re only fighting one enemy at a time. the devs use the close camera to perform lots of little tricks on the player they don’t realize. great video!!
Uh, no, enemies will absolutely buttfuck you from behind all the time.
About the prophecy: the most strange thing is that both in the 2018 game and Ragnarok there is inscription near Kratos' dead body that means "Hermodr", another son of Odin.
And also atreas is loki for no reason. He just is lol. They coulda used that to make the story richer. Idk some kinda betray plot or him having a evil side cause at the end of the day he supposed to be the ultimate trickster.
you do know hes 14 years old right?
@@pockettwo tf that gotta do w anything? He’s also shape shifting 14 year old. Your point ?
48:20 in one of the spin offs he got a offer that would let him live with his daughter but doing so would doom everything and he doesnt want that to happen so in a quick time cutscene we mash a button to have kratos leave his daughter its treated like a boss quick time event and he is clearly struggling
he has been a good father despite being tricked into killing them both you can even see this in the end of first game where you have to protect a vision of your family from yourself and you restore their hp by hugging and it causes your hp to go down
One criticism, Heimdall doesn't actually see into the future , he reads people minds and their intentions , so kratos was able to overwhelm him , by attacking fast and a lot to overwhelm Heimdall senses
Still Heimdall should never have won against Heimdall
@@PeachesandCream225 you mean Kratos?
sound pretty dumb if u ask me. the moment Atreus has the flying sword Ingrid i thought that sword would be used to kill Heimdall cus the sword isn't human unless Heimdall could also read object intention too, but no, its the spear that helped.
Yeah, thinking of it beyond the game mechanics, if you're fighting a seasoned god-killing, monster-slaying, beast of a god, you may be able to dodge his head-on attacks but now throw in countless remote controlled exploding traps, at a certain point it's easy to lose track of them and get hit by them, which then throws you off your game and opens you up to further hits. Heimdall was used to being unhittable which made him arrogant and prideful. He's not one to back down, and faced with someone who has gained an advantage, he would try harder to win which would only make him more vulnerable. I don't think this is unbelievable at all. The recorded battle dialog doesn't do this justice but it logically makes sense.
@@PeachesandCream225 LMAO are you serious? Kratos has literally beaten the greek pantheon which are more powerful than norse gods in every sense
God of War would be so much better if Atreus had a IQ above 60
Skill issue.
You are talking about a teenager who is not only forced to deal with an "end of the world" type scenario but also his own self identity.
The guy actually did a lot better than most of us ever would.
@@anjaneyasreetrout2444 I just don't like the character lol
@@anjaneyasreetrout2444 Stop with the teenager bullshit excuse; I can make a list of teenagers that aren't as insufferable as Atrues. That doesn't make him any less annoying or bratty cause he's a teenager. It just makes him even more of it.
It doesn't excuse how secretive he is toward his father. It doesn't explain the braindead plan of going to Asgard, especially after learning of the prophecy of his father dying. Him serving Odin(something everyone says he was being a dumbass for even thinking of it), and it absolves him of any faults. Does he have understandable reasons? Yes, but he was still very much in the wrong.
@@UltimateBallaPOM cope issue
Finally someone who realized this story is messy and the characters act like total idiots. Idk how people are saying this game had a good writing at all, it was all MCU dialogue and characters being dumb to the point of it being a plot contrivance. And for a game that clearly prioritized story, they made possibly the weakest story in the series
Be real here, there is no way its story is worse than any prior game excluding 1 and 2018. No fucking way
@@shrouls it was definitely the worst "god of war" story
@@peteybakedziti8908 then you haven't played any of the games I mentioned, especially ascesion and coo. Ragnarok is not perfect but is masterful compared to those
@@shrouls we’re not talking about other games, we’re talking about this game, and this game was disappointing as shit
@@shrouls Just because the story-telling is different (more narrative focused) doesn't mean it's bad or make it worse than Ragnarok, because, plain and simple, the story is shit. Anyone older than 12 can understand not only the plot-holes but the out of touch moments and weak characters.
When it comes to the Heimdall fight, it made sense to me. A constant barrage of exploding spears overwhelmed him. Imagine if 6 people charged Heimdall. You can't dodge 6 people.
Also, once Heimdall gets hit he becomes flustered you could say. The shock of getting hit causes him to hesitate. Being able to predict or read people doesn't mean that person is above becoming overwhelmed.
It seemed easy to pick up on.
the mighty heimdiall would die to 6 people ganging up on him?? come on man. it was just a weird decision. yoy play like 2 hours worth of mission just to get a god killing weapon and the way it kills heimdill is so confusing and vague
@@aryan7767 no but 6 Gods ganging up on him yeah he would.
Movie-like game. Finally someone put it too words! Going to leave multiple comments throughout my watch of the video. 💜
Thanks man
After playing it for a few days now, my conclusion is that, along with TLOU 2, it's one of the better games I've ever watched. It's infuriatingly guided and stifling, I don't see myself finishing it. I'm actually sorry I bought it.
Every PlayStation now xclusive ever (except bloodborne ofc)
@@soutrikpal3466They still got some good PS5 exclusives that allow u to play the game without making u watch a 20hour movie. Like Ratchet & Clank, Returnal, DemonsSouls (PS5)
@@soutrikpal3466 Only idiots think that.
I want to add one more point to my last comment. The Tyr we assumed was real didn't exactly have a deep relationship with these people. He pretty much just met them and was at odds with them.
The real Tyr could have seen something resulting in him calling Atreus by the name Loki.
"Movie-like" isn't a bad term for these games actually. They basically just want to be movies and almost resent having to have a player actually play them. To me, these are some of the worst games to play.
Now, I like a good cutscene, I like characters, I like a story, I like a long epic, I like moments of reflection etc. but what I don't like is:
1) too much of all that (especially when its unskippable) and
2) silly, very 'gamey' mechanics and cliches (such as puzzles/locked doors etc.) inbetween those story beats.
Its all just too much and the wrong kind, of both these elements.
Games need to stop trying to be movies but also need to stop assuming that 'video-game' means physics puzzles, shooting, health bars, locked doors from one side, health potions, impossible/dumb stealth, invisible walls, stupid outfits etc. etc. etc.
Yeh, I don't know, just my two-cents. There just should be something new by now, no? Something fresh. I know the neo-liberal forces dictate they shovel the same stuff that sells out the door, but still.
I can understand everything except for the puzzles. Puzzles are a staple in gow games and removing them is a bug mistake. When done well, they force lateral thinking and actually gived a player interesting combat situations not making it just hit the guy until he dies. While i do think some cutscenes are too much, the only real problem i had is ironwood
No physics puzzles, shooting, health bars, locked doors from one side, health potions, impossible/dumb stealth, invisible walls, stupid outfits, and who knows what else...I'm curious what a game made by you would even be.
@@Biostar96 and that is rather my point. That gaming is in the state its in, and gamers are themselves in a wasteland of imagination and expectation - as demonstrated by your reply. You can't even imagine anything else so accustomed to gamings cliches as you are. Its like capitalist realism a la Mark Fisher, but for video games. What do you think that tells you?
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 You're the one who included "etc. etc. etc." so I legitimately have no idea what other basic gameplay staples you're trying to cut. "Gamey mechanics" is really vague. You included "shooting" as well so any video game you make means no projectile weapons of any kind. No outfits means no customization like in RPGs, no way to heal, no stealth, no puzzles. How about platforming? Melee weapons? Strategy? Item upgrades? Various tool mechanics? A menu? You can't just throw out terms like "cliche" and assume everyone should know what you mean by that because to me all of that are common in video games. I wonder what game you would make because it would have to cut all of those out and still manage to be a game that's not just two bars and a ball on the screen.
@@Biostar96 I see what you're saying, but I hope you see what I'm saying even more clearly now given your reply. And I'm not being adversarial here or trying to argue/insult. I honestly think our collective inability to even imagine a game without the things I and you have listed, is indicative of a greater problem - the imagination wasteland. And that in itself, I'd like to mention, serves some greater motive socially, politically, economically etc. What is it doing to us, and why?
Just because someone points to a house and says its on fire, doesn't mean they know how to or can, put that fire out. Just because I name a very real problem, doesn't mean I can or should be demanded to, provide complete solutions. "So what would you do?/You fix it then!" is rhetorical at best and dishonest at worst.
I am the first to admit that I can't exactly describe the 'not this' stuff on this issue, but that doesn't mean that what there is, is all that can be or all that should be. We can do more, do better, thats axiomatic, but we're trapped somehow creatively to even imagine what that is. So too many people don't bother to even try. And thats... odd, don't you think?
Great analysis of the combat, great analysis of the story, glad I subscribed to you as soon as I have, if you keep it up you're gonna make it big. You've got a way with words, at no point in the video did I feel like I didn't know where you stood opinion wise. Terrific video
I was hearing you talking about "there are no moments that make you feel like it's against all odds that Kratos makes that prophecy changing move", and that reminded me of my favorite game story of all time, The Legacy of Kain.
For anyone not knowing that franchise, quick explanation, Raziel was once killed and turned into a Vampire, and killed again, and it was supposed to end there, but he was resurrected by the Elder God, who wanted him to be his pawn of annihilating his former servants, the Vampires, once and for all. But there's a catch, it meant Raziel can choose to fulfill his destiny or not, where all other beings in Nosgoth have no choice, they will do what the Elder God's Wheel of Fate wrote on them. The saga ends when Raziel decides to die by the blade of the Soul Reaver, his spirit fusing with the Reaver and finally completing it, allowing Kain, his former ennemy, to finally be cleansed from the corruption of his soul by Nubraptor (keeper of the Spirit Pillar, he corrupted all the others after the murder of his wife and former Balance keeper, Ariel, the function Kain got by being borned the very second she died), allowing Kain to fight back against "The Machinations of Fate" and being hopeful again.
The climactic "against all odd choice" is Raziel realising he can choose his fate, and that Moebius the Time Streamer and the Elder God gaslight him into believing he can "flee the Reaver" as his true choice against fate, when the true one would be to sacrifice himself and help purifying Nosgoth from the corruption birthed from Nubraptor's anguish, allowing a way out from them.
All resemblance to a certain sacred book is totally not on purpose of course.
I think that the fate defiance was actually not giving a dam about it in a loot of dialogue kratos tells how trying to defy fate is the thing that causes it so maybe by just not giving a dam about fate it ends up defying it, it's more like a accumulative thing than just one moment starting whit kratos tiring to spare Heimdall then telling Atreus to open up his heart then taking the must dangerous rout and ending whit him talking to thor breaking fate or maybe as the last mural suggest there is always a choice maybe like an easy to predict and complete fate and a harder to predict and accomplish fate or something like that
I cannot stand how bosses in these games can just stop being fazed and move out of runic attacks after the game decides they can no longer be stun locked after an stuck.
Finally finished the video and I loved it. Can't wait for your next upload. Take your time and remember you're not alone and we are always here for you. You take the time to pour your own love into the videos you make and that's why I keep coming back for more. 💜
Kratos was praised by the Spartans in GOW2.
As the god of war. He fueled their lust for violence. It’s different in the new series.
The fact so many people call this game a "masterpiece" just goes to show how low standards have gotten.
People just lack critical thinking skills
You’re definitely the type of guy to play FIFA
They havent, they have gotten higher.
@@Drserumisgay If you think GoW is a masterpiece, then you're definitely the kind of guy who loves Marvel films.
@@AdAstra78 I don’t see a correlation between marvel films and gow
So, i was not the crazy one thinking that the game looked like it has tank controls.
It does. The game it's seriously outdated
I mean, the beginning scene also means more because Odin is afraid to be around Kratos without protection. Odin did more than flinch when he brought that dwarf with him to talk to Kratos at one point in the game. I think Odin initially asked Thor to come with him to get to fight Kratos as a result. Thor even was like 'about time' and started to fight without a second thought.
I am so glad you shared your insight with the world.
My Gawd, what a refreshing change of pace…
EDIT: one part that bothered me about this whole “versus fate thing” is… in the end…
… Kratos was ALWAYS meant to be the God of Peace for the Nine Realms.
So, instead of defying fate, he basically just came to that path and it ends all honky-dory.
What…? 😶
Its the lofty insight of an imbecile.
Thank you for blessing my feed, good sir!
I played GOD OF WAR 2018 both on PS4 and PC, in the PC version I was able to adjust the Field of the view and make it further from Kratos back where I made it almost as DMC field of view settings, yes the fighting became easier and my control on the fight became better, but the experience was not better, the camera angle gave more engagement feeling and made every fight with every enemy more personal and more engaging, so it was a battle of convenience vs emerging. This was my personal experience, maybe if I adjust the FOV in between those two settings I would have the benefits of both.
We are intrigued by this game because of the mythological world is represents.
Yet when you play it, you feel like youre at work and talking to your co-workers and occassionally the assistant manager.
The one HUGE issue with the game that really cannot be explained away or justified in any way, is the extremely lackluster final act. HOW DID THEY SCREW UP THE TITULAR EVENT SO BADLY? I was giving the game a significant amount of benefit of the doubt up until Ragnarok. It was at that point that any goodwill I had towards the narrative dissipated, and it became obvious to me that development of the game must have been a mess in a lot of ways. If I was a project manager or a producer responsible for this game, it would be a no-brainer to me that Ragnarok itself MUST be the one part of the game that is knocked out of the park above all else. Instead, it's easily the most disappointing part of the experience, and actually makes the rest of the game worse. It makes the universe feel incredibly small, considering we only see 2 Norse gods during Ragnarok, who were already major parts of the plot, which makes it feel like the Norse pantheon was basically just like 8 people with an army of einherjar. There's some throwaway lines about "lesser aesir," and some of the other members of the pantheon are described in stories told be Mimir, but it really doesn't justify making it so that barely any of the Norse pantheon has screen time.
If we compare the amount of gods shown in the Norse games to the original trilogy, it's not even comparable. The Norse games absolutely should have been a trilogy, they should have actually made an effort to represent the entirety of the Norse mythos, and they damn well should have made the event of Ragnarok something more than 45ish minutes of weak spectacle. As it stands, we get to the end of Ragnarok and all I could think was "That's it?" They were more interested in telling a personal story about Kratos and Boy than actually giving us an interesting story about an outsider finding his way into Norse mythology. Atreus being Loki was a horrible decision that deprived us of running up against what most people would consider the most interesting Norse deity, thereby even further shortening the already short list of Aesir we see. At least I had plenty of fun with the combat, but I really don't have any desire to do another playthrough and suffer through the disappointing plot again. The focus of the series used to be bringing mythos to life and using it as a fun vessel for spectacle and gameplay. The focus has now shifted to an intimate "Father, son" story that the devs will sacrifice everything else for the sake of, which is pretty disappointing, and even that intimate plot feels rushed because they were so insistent they tell this story in 2 games.
so does tyr just disappear when atreus is in asgard and talks to odin?
Presumably he hides in the broom closet to “sleep” or “meditate”. Don’t know how no one walked in on him. Especially when he sleeps in a clean freak’s broom closet. And his teleport isn’t exactly subtle either. We do see at least at one point he leaves after you wait awhile as Atreus. I assume he goes back to Sindri’s. I think it happens after the first mask mission because right after that we are back as Kratos.
I'm convinced that people who think this game is a masterpiece with great combat and exploration have never played any games that actually do.
Most of those people actually hate Elden Ring believe it or not. And those people clearly didn’t play true open world, GOW &GOWR is simply a free roam game not open world
But the thing is, it does have great combat and exploration. And it's very weird for you to say this when the guy who made the video also agrees to this, except the masterpiece part. Have you watched it?
@@shrouls Yeah I watched it, and although good, I wouldn't go as far as to say great in terms of combat. Compared to other offerings out there it's a bit too slow and simplistic for my taste.
the combat and exploration is great but not exceptional not like elden ring or darksouls
I love both, so am i a retarted?
Good work bro keep it up ❤
Absolutely agree with everything you said here. Great video
I have yet to see a critique video where they 100% agree with me on the combat but you hit the nail on the head. Fun but man that camera just getting pulled back a bit could've helped so much with the combat and helping making it more fun. So many times on GMGOW where the red indicator is coming from god knows where so i have to spam roll to avoid it rather than assess the enemy type and attack type and act accordingly while keeping that 'flow state'
15:00 that's exactly what happened to me. The first time I played the game I was going it always with my brother and we never took a side quest because they were always so vague and unappealing. Then when we finished the game I moved on with a deep sense of unsatisfaction given by the shortest ragnaröck I've ever witnessed while my brother kept playing the game with all his side content. I watched him frustrated by those stupid puzzles while other times some really neat stuff happened like the beast imprisoned by Mimir or the entire Gna ordeal. When I think back to this game I really feel angry because of all the missed potential. The side content is great, so great in fact that I wished they took half of the effort put in the side content for the main story so that I wouldn't feel this way. Kratos and Atreus' story was simply amagazing by start to finish, the same goes with Odin's paranoia and Thor's role, but it was all glued together in a strange way with so many things half done like Feyr's character. I don't know, I just feel angry thinking about it.
Hit it right on the nose
Wait, so ire mad that you didn't do side content that's meant to make the game you play feel better and somehow its the games fault?
Why would you skip the side quests lol. Sorry but is this your first time ever playing a game? Side quests are usually some of the best parts of a game.
whether or not i agree, i understand and respect your reasoning for most of your complaints. the only exception is regarding the fate stuff; it makes sense when you consider the context most Greek prophecies are self fulfilling, actively trying to fight them is what makes them happen, trying to play into prophecy to "subvert" is just the same as well. by ignoring the prophecy altogether and just trying to do what seems right in the moment is what denies the prophecy any power, it only has power if you actually pay attention to it. Kratos basically says this outright in-game.
Getting past prophecy isn't just one big moment, its many smaller moments that culminate in one. The norns outright state themselves they dont truly see the future, they can only calculate probabilities, youre putting most value into their power than they do themselves.
44:18 uhhhh . . . . about that. At the start of GoW2 Kratos (at that time as the God of War that replaced Ares from previous game) were asked by his Spartan people to helped them in their war. Kratos responds and heed to the call, despite Athena (Kratos's former 'guardian' and the Goddess of wisdom) kept telling him that Gods should not intervene in conflict between human and Zeus's punishment would be severe. Ofc, Kratos joins in, helped the Spartan in Rhodes, only for Zeus to quickly took Kratos's godly powers away
Can't explain due to language barrier but : its a wonderful video, from beginning to end. thank you
I feel the same. Bought both 2018 and Ragnarok on release. I got 85 percent way through GOW 2018 before getting bored, opposed to Ragnarok getting bored 15 percent of the way through. Attempted to pass where i left off couple months later, realized why I got bored.
Cause you suck at it😂
I love the music in this video.
Could you please add a track list? I have trouble finding it with Shazam
When I was playing the final battle I thought I got a bad ending from missing side quests lol which cannot be a good sign
Whats the ost at 10:09
I can't believe this "fight-talk-shimmy-fight-climb-fight-talk-boat" type of gameplay structure is still relevant in this day and age. I dunno if Uncharted made this popular or it was even earlier than that, but come on, this is literally ANCIENT in 2022 and it makes me angry that sony in particular continues to push this stagnant type of gameplay.
it's definitely getting very boring
It's even worse when the little time you do play it's horrible combat and walking segments
What's the background music at 44:40 ? It's killing me!
I worked it out after hearing it in a random video. It’s from Hollow Knight :)
It was the 2nd Long boy mission for a few hours....i was falling ASLEEP in the middle of the day playing that crap. I don't think I'll finish this now....
Don't worry. I played past this part and I can guarantee you that it doesn’t get better
Your really smart man, love the analysis. Really informative!
I haven't played either of these games, but the camera looks really bad. It might feel fine for some people but it looks really stiff and uncomfortable, like Kratos is glued to one spot on the screen. They could just yank the camera back when combat starts, like most third person fighters, but they're really committed to that single viewpoint.
45:37 If your opponent is burning Atium, then all you need to do is burn Atium or the more readily accessible Electrum yourself. Your futuresight and theirs cancel each other out, rendering the metal usel... oh is this not Mistborn? Nevermind then.
Maybe we can get a classic GoW style game spin off one day. I'd love an Au based around Deimos.
This may count as doing the writing for the devs, but i would say that Atreus' reason for going to Asgard is to learn how to subvert prophecy (his father's death) with the greatest expert on it (Odin) that he knows of
I can answer your question about Heimdal and the spear. Heimdal can’t see the future, but he can read minds and see intentions, combined with the realm shift time dilation. So he can look into your eyes and see what you will do and react accordingly. Overpopulating his senses with random explosions just complicates that for him.
he doesnt need to look into your eyes... The game shows twice him being attacked from behind by Atreus and by Thrud, he dodges both. He should never have not read Kratos intention to blow up the spear. They needed to kill him so they completely nerfed him for the fight
@@PeachesandCream225 his point still stands. There is no nerfing. You just overpopulate his senses with the infinite number of spears you can throw that explode
Should’ve been three games
You know, I really can’t help but wonder what this games story would be like if it were made in the years where gow first was just coming out…where they made games through passion and not on profit? Those days. I bet you anything it would not be cringey like some parts in modern day Ragnorok school drama…
Great vid ✨
I don't know why they didn't divide it up I get they wanted to move on but there was so much potential for Norse that was left untouched or grazed.
People really need stop saying this boring game is a "masterpiece".
Cutscene simulator is a movie
Kratos' appeal is strength and in ragnarok he is limited to talking talk and talk which is lousy for a god of war, I don't see anyone excited about this story about the champion jotnar, they could even have made a genuine plot of kratos vs. atreus seeing the illusion of hell how kratos kills his wife and daughter... instead we have some boring conflicts of an 11 year old boy with kratos
You are right I dint do much side quests because of the pacing of the main story
I dont undersrand how kratos says no to odin in the beginning with his son there
With Heimdall, I would say the game developers did a slight of hand by only showing him being attacked by one person. First Atreus and then Kratos. Heimdall can't read 6 people at the same time or dodge 6 people. Kratos fights Heimdall alone. Very convenient.
One correction Heimdall doesn’t have foresight he can read minds and the drauphnir is so foreign and disjointed that he can’t predict where the drauphnir will explode. Kratos thinks “ put down spear” and that leads to explosions he can’t see
That makes no sense. It will explode where it is--on the ground. Where he can see it. We KNOW he can see it because he can dodge it when you attack with it. He still has eyes. And if he can read minds, he should read when Kratos is going to detonate it--maybe not the first time, but after a half-dozen hits, he should pick up the pattern.
Pandoras Box and Heras Garden still exist in my brain.
All those clowns giving this a 10/10 dont talk about how kratos couldn't jump a 5m obstacle to unlock the chariot and has to go around lol
Then 5min later he is fighting gods that jump mountains
If you are planning to visit the original gows thin you should start from gows ascension and gow chains of Olympus and carry on from there tell the end of the trilogy with gow 3
I think BOY going to Asgard to make friends with Thors family setting up the reveal later 😢😮😅
I think if ragnarok were split into 2 games, Kratos might have said "yes" to Odin's offering even though they know he can't be trusted. Atreus gets mad, audience is confused, they coulf try to get a step ahead of odin somehow while maintaining peace and it would've been more interesting imo
The Valkyrie Queen from 2018 was harder than Thor and Odin.
She was also harder than Baldur and Thor’s sons. So are the berserkers
I agree. What ever happened to having a great, exciting and fun gameplay!? To me gameplay is number 1, other things come second and should only add to the game and not take away from it. If this line is continued I'm not getting the next game 🤬
You missed one the dragon fight that you need a special relic to "revive" in order to fight it. I missed it on my first playthrough and they didn't really go out of their way to mention it.
was this in the desert plateau area or somewhere else?
@@feebleking21 its not in Vanaheim, the dragon you need to "revive" is in Svartalfeim.
@@Salemcannibal
Damn.
I see it(Freyr asks "what manner of creature is that?")
Wasn't even necessary for the 100%.
@@UltimateBallaPOM only necessary to max out dragon armor
I recently learned about that dragon and the trolls. I’ve already 100% the game and even got platinum but I’m going back to fight them all lol
Regarding the norns predicting the future. They discuss that they dont actually tell the future but know them so well they can predict their actions.
With that in mind they predicted kratos would act like he always does and kills everyone.
He defies his destiny by putting down his axe and not killing thor.
At least thats how i took it when playing through. Atreus talks about it alot. Saying they will not do what they always do. Quite a few times. He even tried to spare heimdal but is still failing.
I just hope the devs know what the real issues with such a story driven game and all the plot holes and poor finish to what was built up so incredibly in 2018 GOW.
Re4 remake had a mod for zoomed out camera angle. How has God of war not got it? PC gamers help.
At 45:45, if I were to hazard a guess as to what "overpopulate his senses" means is that the spear duplicates itself infinitely right? However note that it's not making new ones, it's DUPLICATING it self. So what might be happening is that Heimdal sees them, but because they're all techincally the same spear, he sees ALL of them at once. See all them around the arena and possibly stabbed into himself. And when you explode them, he likely sees them all exploding at the same time.
If that explaination is hard to wrap your head around, then let me phrase it like this: He's seeing all of the spears, past, present and future. And they all explode at the same time when the real ones do, but also still remain there. He is aware of them all not actually existing at once, but isn't sure which ones are the ones in the present. This is likely why he's specifically deflecting the ones you throw directly at him and not really avoiding the ones on the ground. By watching kratos he at least knows that the one he is holding and just currently thrown is the one to be immediately concerned with.
But he only sees slightly into the future.
Playing the originals after the remakes must be a trip seeing how Kratos acts
I can understand and agree with most of this. But the heimdal section. Your concept of how heimdal works is just blatantly wrong. Heimdal doesn't "see into the future" he sees a person's intent by looking at their soul. And the spear was designed specifically to overload his senses and get hits in on him.
This is explained several times in the game, other than that I can see why you'd think some of the things you do. But it's not necessarily agreeable on some points.
2018 still my best
For me!
Gow2018:story,pacing,char writing, intense boss fight,R3 execution animation. weak point (variations enemy)
Gowragnarok:combat,enviroment design,enemy,more better side quest. Weak point (story,bad pacing and char writing,easy main boss fight)
I enjoyed the first game a lot.. But it didn't connect with me emotionally like The Last of Us 2 did around the same time of its release. I assume the second game will be similar.. But I'm not paying $125 dollars for it on the AU store.. So I'll wait for a price drop.. Damn ps5 prices are insane.
Remember when people could tell a story?
Wow, this opened up my eyes to my initial criticisms, as the only thing i saw wrong was the ending feeling rushed, and the heimdall fight
Exelent vídeo 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great content - wicked vid.
I loved this game but totally agree. the first third of the game amazing but it all evens out and goes flat by the final act.
Atreus should have just been kidnapped by Odin at the beggining of the game whilst Kratos and Thor were fighting. The greater part of the game could have been the two reuniting prior to Ragnarok. with Atreus just making the best of it in Asgard whilst Kratos does whatever necessary to save his son, even if that means dying. plus deaths never been final for Kratos.
About the camera, I think it's positioning was exactly as you said, so the game has a movie like feel. I'm pretty sure Joseph Anderson mentioned in his gow 2018 review, that the reasoning was, so that there's no cutting away and no loading screens, because even when travelling between realms, we're shoved into the tree thing level before the door spawns in.
As for level design 31:00. I hate the level design in both new gow games, but I realised while watching that it's probably because sony wanted a good looking game running on base ps4. I can only guess, but I think that if they would drop the visual quality or make ragnarok only for ps5, the movement could become less restrictive and levels could have less "corridory" layout (especially in Vanaheim where it's most noticeable and infuriating)
I think the idea with heimdalls foresight is that it is object oriented. He sees what the objects and people around him will do. When there are multiple copies of an object, he can't accurately distinguish them. That's what it means by overpopulating his senses.
Would make sense if there were, like, 50 of them. But there's TWO to keep track of--not hard.
@@billjacobs521 in my mind it's like he can't tell the future of the copies apart. If I tell you a guy on your left is going to punch and a guy on your right is going to kick, then you may stand a chance of responding properly. If I tell you that, between those two guys, one of them will punch and one will kick, then it's now a lot more likely that you botch the response.
I think his foresight can't tell the difference copies of the spear apart, and he's so utterly dependent on it that he's actually terrible at relying on visual cues alone.
I think the Norns only played the first 3 God of War games but skipped GoW 2018 so theyre unaware of Kratos' character change.
Jotunheim was the most tedious section. Also Kratos never felt in any danger throughout the game
While the nonsense doesn't make me enjoy the story any less (I still find it *very* strong), I find myself agreeing with basically everything you say. As much good as there is, way too much of this game is either a cutscene, a glorified cutscene, or a bad puzzle. All of it crafted so it *looks* nice with characters giving good dialogue (or useless hints lol). Trying to achieve qualities of a great movie. This is not a movie.