CGC Reholder Scam but nobody has said this!!! Do you trust CGC still???
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- We all know about the CGC Reholder Scam that has been going on. If you do not know about it please go to Swagglehaus Comics, Automatic Comics, Como Comics or Jerno's comics. These individuals have wonderful coverage of what has transpired or what has come to light.
I have noticed a few things that have been discussed and I wanted to throw in my two cents. There seems to be a fear or question of validity of all CGC graded comic books now that this scandal has come to light. Do you trust CGC? Will you buy another CGC book? and statements like CGC is dead!
In this video I share something that I feel is an important aspect of this discussion. I haven't heard anyone discuss this point yet.
Take the extra steps you think you need to protect yourself when you are buying any comic book. Also, I took stats in undergrad. That was like 20 plus years ago. I am a little rusty, but still confident that my thinking is appropriate here.
Enjoy the video!
#cgcreholderscam #cgccomics #cgcscandal
I have had to respond to a few comments with the same answer so I am going to pin this. First, the total amount of comics may be closer to 10 million. Secondly, there is no proof that multiple people have been doing this scam, but people seem to this that is a possibility.
My response is: even if it was only 10 million total comic books graded in 20 years and multiple people doing the scam, they would have had to successfully pulled this scam off 250,000 times for it to be statistically significant. I doubt that has occurred.
I totally agree. I think the people who respond that they can’t trust CGC are people who probably opposed to grading books.
In principal I agree with you - statistical irrelevance is a real thing and you're likely right about this. Though I would have to suggest narrowing your scope even further. No scammer is going to tamper with the $50, $100, or even $500 graded books - there's just not enough payoff vs the risk being taken in the scam. So if we remove all of the "lower value" slabs from the 10 million graded comics out there, what's the new number, and does the math still point to statistical irrelevance? Again, I agree with you in principal but I think the scope needs to be a little more specific in order to be relevant. Cheers to a great 2024!
@@kyleroussel that’s a good point on narrowing the scope on higher tier books. I would be curious as how that would change the significance. Thanks for the comment!
I disagree with your position that the volume of known fraud incidents is statistically insignificant. We have absolutely NO IDEA to what extent this has been going on, nor how many people are involved. We (and CGC) only know about this one person so far it seems. The considerations for trust should regard their inability to detect hundreds of case / holder tampering, their slab design itself (which seemingly allows undetected tampering) and their handling of this situation (yet to be seen). It is not a matter of do we trust or dont trust CGC entirely, but rather by how much do we trust them given the above problems. Would you submit your raw high grade Hulk 181 right now? The obvious answer is hell no....so right now, community trust is (and should be) lower.
I completely see where you are coming from. If you ask yourself this question though: if CGC has graded 10 million comics has the group of scammers been able to trick CGC 250,000 times? That is the number that would have to happen to make it statistically significant. With that said, I don’t think so. Also, I see exactly where you are coming from. Even 10,000 comics being tampered with is a lot, however not significant when compared to the total graded population.
Thanks for the comment and thoughts. I appreciate hearing thoughts even if we don’t fully agree.
@@AlextheComicHoarder I hear you bud, I'm not arguing against the statistical relevance of the incident cases known so far, I'm arguing against the idea that statistical relevance is required before trust is affected. Hundreds of books is not insignificant a number. The statistical relevance argument makes no sense in this case; its like saying "I will trust CGC grading standards even if they make 249,999 terrible grading decisions". Statistical relevance has little bearing on this issue in any way whatsoever.
@@technoviking4131 gotcha gotcha. I appreciate the added clarification. Either way, I fully hear and understand what you are saying. It’s good for me to hear all about the other perspectives and thoughts of people in the community. I’m open to changing my opinion too, so thank you.
Excellent comment. It is disingenuous to say it’s “statistically insignificant”. This scammer hasn’t been doing the whole population of every cgc book that was ever graded. Elf Quest #9 was not done, no Darkwing 14. He (and others like him, we have to assume) have used the money books which greatly reduces the total universe of books he’s drawn from and those are the books everyone wants so the statistical significance is greatly increased when looking at it from that perspective.
The guy buying a Darkwing 14 faces a less than 000.01 chance of being “ripped off”. The guy buying an ASM 300 faces a (known) 3% risk and if there are even just two more guys pulling the same scam to the same scam to the same scale that rises to 9%. Almost 1 in 10. Alex might like Russian roulette but I suspect anyone with half a brain might be less inclined to take that chance. The proper advice is to hold on graded comic book purchases for the next few months. 1 so we can see the extent of the fraud and find these books. 2. So we can see any impact on prices for slabbed v raw. I’m amazed to see a CGC ad campaign masquerading as a comic community commentary video. Disappointed.
I respectfully disagree with your statistical argument Alex. Nobody has any clue how many books have been tampered with in this manner over the years or will be going forward so there is no baseline to support ANY statistical data and there never will be. It’s all conjecture and therein lies the problem, uncertainty where there should be NONE. I will concede the amount of compromised books is likely low in terms of the aggregate but that means nothing to someone who is actually impacted by this scam. Having it happen once, to anyone, should be considered one time too many and is cause for doubt.
Sure buying a slabbed CGC book is still technically safer than buying raw, but the main reason CGC books command a much higher value is the piece of mind it has been “certified and guaranteed” and that’s not a claim CGC can make anymore. Unfortunately CGC’s entire model has been turned on it’s head, the trust has been broken and this is 100% their fault due to a slab design that could be compromised, so I’m confused why so many influencers seem to be giving them a pass or making light of the situation. The only solution at this point is a slab redesign. Anything from imprinting the Cert # on the inner holder to attaching the label to it to prevent separation would work. Obviously this does absolutely nothing for the millions of slabs already in circulation. Doing the right thing would be offing a heavy discount to any re-holder of an old slab to the new style after it’s designed and implemented.
Well said. I honestly can’t argue with your points. I appreciate the well thought out comment.
I hear what you’re saying but unfortunately, now that a certain RUclipsr is posting videos showing exactly how to open cases and switch out books without leaving evidence of tampering, how do I know that the graded book I’m buying is the book that was graded? CGC needs to make their database of photos and grader’s notes publicly available and searchable by certification number. Not for a fee, for free. If they don’t do that, I don’t know that I’m going to keep buying graded books because what I’m buying isn’t guaranteed to be the book I think I’m buying. Also, if I buy a graded book and resell it to someone, I can’t guarantee that I’m selling them what I think I’m selling them. It’s a bad situation. The seeds of doubt have been planted and unfortunately they’re going to grow. CGC already says it’s hundreds of books that were part of the scam and that has to be just from a quick investigation of books that have been reholdered. How would CGC have any idea how many books have been swapped out using a heat gun (that were not reholdered). They wouldn’t. I get that the percentage of the total population of graded books that have been tampered with is probably small, but the trust is gone and that’s what CGC (and the other grading companies) is selling, a certified guaranty. CGC needs to step up and give people the data we need (for free) to restore that trust. Otherwise, they may be ruined.
I love your solution about making the images public.
It’s embarrassing for CGC that a scam could have been pulled off in such a simple manner. I think CGC has been asleep at the wheel for a while now.
Completely agree. I have heard of situations where collectors send in an older label 9.8 and then cgc decided to regrade when it was sent in for a reholder. Asleep at the wheel is right on these hundreds of books.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Hi Alex,
With respect…. and I do mean that. The number of books effected against the total number of books cgc has ever slabbed is not the consideration. They are not targeting every book, they are targeting the big boy books. The impact of this is wider because these are the books we all go after, it’s also a much smaller number of books raising the statistical significance.
I won’t be touching any graded books at all going forward unless it’s a cheap “nothing” book at a raw price. I’ll only want books I can open and look at page to page and make a fully informed decision or a raw that has gone through a trader or auction house that I trust. Frankly, there’s just too much risk associated with putting that mouth money into the plastic which I then can’t open to check.
I think you have to give consideration as a seller (I know you dabble) to the concerns of those you’ll be trying to sell to. I think moving a big aka expensive slabbed/graded book is going to become a lot harder, slower and less profitable and I’d advise against investing too heavily at this time.
I think prices of slabs will fall dramatically, I truly feel bad for anyone with a lot. They account for less that 1% of my collection but I know some guys who mostly only collect if graded. I’d be very curious to know if you still hold the same opinion of trusting cgc over the next few weeks. I love Matt and Brittany but CGC has had a very good run and I honestly think business for them is going to decline as news of this spreads.
On a cheery note, hope you and your family are all well.
Comic boss one! I just read your comment and fully see your point. Thank you for being amazing. Miss you my friend.
99% of the cgc is good vs 70% of raw comics for sale is bad inaccurately graded missing pages possibly restored.
You're looking at the wrong stat. Don't compare the number of comics graded to comics defrauded. A lot of graded comics aren't statistically significant in that they're brand new fad Comics that are being flipped for a quick buck. The comics that are being tampered with are high dollar, high value books. Even at a quick glance, this WAS a big deal because of the amount of money that was being scammed. I agree that CGC still has a place in the ecosystem but I disagree that it was statistically insignificant.
I can see your point and respect it. At the same time people are asking the question, do you trust CGC graded books. So the answer to that is yes, because the number of CGC books that has been tampered with is absolutely insignificant to the total graded. So I see your point, but we are looking at two separate questions.
Dude why are you acting like Sammy Stupid? That number is what they are aware of. If you believe what you are saying then all power to you. The community hated on PGX over one damn book that happened nearly 20 years ago. I understand your support because no one wants to see their precious 9.8's sink like the Titanic in value and worth 😅
Honestly, I don’t mind it. We can only go off of the fact. The facts right now are 350 books. It’s not confirmed that they are all even incorrectly graded. I would assume the vast majority are. Either way, it’s a freaking sad story. I appreciate your comment and you stopping by. Feel free to stop by anytime. I don’t mind it at all.
Sorry but this sounds like the argument of someone with a deep investment into graded comics. I understand you have an investment to protect but no… you absolutely should not be buying cgc or any slabs right now. Common sense suggests that we should wait and see if this effects the prices of slabbed books over the next few months as this news filters through to the wider market.
Re the “statistically significant” argument this is also a misnomer. As automatic comics said just the number of ASM 300’s alone accounts for around 3% of the ASM 300 books that are registered and this is just what has been declared. Do you really think this is an isolated incident? Crazy if you do. “Statistically significant”? Of the total number of books cgc have graded? Lol… what a disingenuous argument. Who is interested in Darkwing #9 or Elf Quest #4 or Transformers #19? When you look at the money books this guy was targeting it bring the size of your universe (a research term) substantially down in size, 3% of ASMs (that we know of are at risk, i seriously doubt it’s an isolated incident let’s say at least 2 other people are doing it on the same scale and you’re at 9%.
With your philosophy of “what are the chances?” Russian roulette is an attractive game… until you land on the wrong chamber. Lol
You are coming off as a CGC shill. The fairest advice to give to people is absolutely do not buy slabs at the moment. Wait a month or maybe 6 to see if market values of slabs compared to raw hold up as I suspect the difference is going to shrink greatly over the next few months. Seriously disappointed in this video, you are not stupid so don’t understand the “it’s not statistically significant” comment when clearly it is on specific books, the ones most people are in the market for in the first place. For God’s sake this video was a travesty and I hope people see through the shilling for cgc/protection of your investment and over exposure to slabs. I wasn’t religiously against sir for slabs, I have some but I always collected comics not slabs. So disappointed, you have built a platform, I really wish you’d wanted to use it to help less informed followers and subscribers from being ripped off.
I was thinking about you when the news today came out. Haha. Maybe I should do an apology video. Lesson for me is when there is a scam that can be done there will be many scammers taking advantage of it.
@@AlextheComicHoarder brother, thank you for messaging. There’s no bad blood between us now. I’m just really saddened and angry that these people do this. It is harmful to the hobby we all love regardless of our outlooks on this matter. Make a video if you wish, not to apologise but to cover and raise awareness. Transparency and disinfectant is now the best daylight in terms of this issue.
I knew when Matt Nelson said there were no employees it was sadly early to rule that out. You are an optimist I will not knock you for that. It truly saddens me. I think going forward there will be a narrowing of margins between cgc, cbcs and then raw. I’m not saying comics are dying, they won’t. I don’t even think grading will… but cgc might. Big changes ahead for sure. Take care, brother.
@@captaincomicana4231 same feelings here. I’m grateful for you.
It does get more statistically significant when the focus is on the "expensive key books" that are in high grades to swap with lower grades etc. That can be looked at from the census counts of those particular books and until CGC releases the books they know are affected we wont know the percentages. Besides the actual census count is skewed by resubmissions.
Clearly the bad actor(s) chose higher valued books to target for a reason to pull the scam on and this one did it at least a "few hundred times"
I think it is easy to poo poo peoples (over?) reaction. Maybe it is. Still with other videos showing how simple it actually is to tamper the case, where there is a will or a for a scammer to abuse an angle they will find a way and it never is just one.
Yeah it’s pretty scary how easy it seems to do this. I think that we are entering a time where regardless of where you stand on the issue CGC is going to be scrutinized in every aspect of their business. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Alex, do you sincerely think there's only one scammer out there that's doing this? This has been going on for years. And these scammers have found a way to make it look like the case has not been opened and that's how they got away with it for a year upon year. It's not as simple as a cracked case my friend
I appreciate the comment. I will say that I fully and confidently believe that even if there are multiple scammers doing this, they haven’t done it 100,000 times. Even if CGC has only grades 10,000,000 comics the scammers would have needed to successfully pull this scam off 250,000 times to be STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. Nobody has been able to do that. I am 100% absolutely confident in that.
I agree 100%. No need to overreact.
@@AlextheComicHoardersuch a disingenuous use of stats. We aren’t talking about every book ever slabbed by them. We are talking about a much smaller universe or population. He went after the money books. If you are in the market for an ASM 300 the risk this one fella poses to your purchase is a 1 in 20 risk. Now imagine he did double what we know if there was one other scammer I. The United States with the same idea doing it at a similar scale. Now it’s 1 in 10 the risk you are asking us to take, anyone for Russian roulette? You first, Alex?😂🤡
@@AlextheComicHoardersuch a disingenuous use of stats. We aren’t talking about every book ever slabbed by them. We are talking about a much smaller universe or population. He went after the money books. If you are in the market for an ASM 300 the risk this one fella poses to your purchase is a 1 in 20 risk. Now imagine he did double what we know if there was one other scammer I. The United States with the same idea doing it at a similar scale. Now it’s 1 in 10 the risk you are asking us to take, anyone for Russian roulette? You first, Alex?😂🤡
You have missed the newest revelations. That was he scam that revealed the issue. Now ALL slabs are susceptible and all existing slab can always be opened and resealed with a different book. Catch up with the issue. Slab were always thought to be destroyed to open them but now we know that a Heat Gun has defeated all existing slabs. All existing slabs will trade at a discount and will forever require scrutiny. All new slabs require a new design to defeat a Heat Gun and capillary re-glue. Just saying. Catch up to the issue. We are way past your logic now.
I wouldn’t say we are WAY past it. I mean just because it can be done doesn’t mean it has. Either way, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It doesn’t change my confidence in the hobby or the strong majority of cgc. In fact if CGC makes their images public and searchable collectors would easily be able to match up certifications and graded books in question. Problem solved. I would say you have take a few steps back for the “way past” position.
This is an overreaction. Period.
Why do people continue to buy lottery tickets when everybody knows the odds? "Statistical significance" is irrelevant when you are the one that loses.
From the other perspective, I don’t see how 100-200 books invalidates the entire population of graded books. Statistical significance is absolutely important in this case in my opinion. Regardless, I do like your lottery analogy.
CGC is now PGX That all, too many fake grades too many special privileges for Bootleg books the bullshit just keeps going on with them.
I’m not going to argue with that. I think they are the east target, because they are the industry leader. Like I said, I’m not going to argue. I feel like they are in some hot water, but I do feel bad for them as I am a fan. Thanks for your thoughts.
Alex do you think CGC recovers from this? I only ask because PGX’s “scam”
“issues”were not on this level and they never recovered from it
I think they do. However I’m starting to say this more and more. We are entering into a new era of collecting and trusting. I really like the product and still feel that this is a very small percentage, but it will take a bit to win back a lot of people. This hurt people’s trust big time. I am not denying that.
Yes, I do. Way more than trusting raw comics. People forget or are too young to know how many rip-offs happened before CGC came along (restoration, in particular). In fact, that's exactly why CGC came along. Then again, it is possible that many more than a few hundred slabs have been tampered with -- how can we really be sure?
Good point. We don't know how many, but what I do know is even it was an insane number like 100,000...it still wouldn't be statistically significant. Love the reminder about the resto stuff back in the day. That could be considered the biggest scandal in comics honestly.
@@AlextheComicHoarder You're right. The whole "scandal" makes good content but is really just a tempest in a teapot. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a CGC slab unless it was a very, very expensive one. But then my hesitation wouldn't be over concerns about scams; it would be over concerns about spending too much money on even authentic comics!
It might not be one person and a few hundred books. Now i have to internet detective every slab i buy, because of one person? Because there might be more? I'll go back to hunting raw books and when CGC or whoever makes a more solid product, I'll submit books again.
Very fair comment and thought. Your concerns are valid. I’m not going to worry too much about it to be honest. But that’s just me. I’m looking at it from a statistical lens. I feel confident that the strong strong majority of CGC books out there for sale are fine. With that said, I am not disagreeing with you at all. Very valid concerns.
I've seen quite a few books, like ASM 300, Hulk 340, UF 4, X-Men 129, Supergirl and the Legion 23 Adam Hughes, etc. recently on ebay that are graded as 9.8s and 9.6s but they definitely aren't. They were so far off either CGC seriously dropped the ball grading them (unlikely) or they're scams.
Yeah, I have a 9.8 that is 100% a 9.6 or 9.4 at best.
You think it is just one person that is doing this or has done this? I can bet there is more than just one person who has done this. CGC needs to fix their cases to prevent this. Will this affect most people, no but I bet there is a lot of collectors with big books that are questioning their purchases.
I think my point is, it doesn’t matter how many scammers there are. I am looking at this from a statistical standpoint. CGC hasn’t screwed up 100,000 or more times to make it worrisome to me.
Both things can be true: people are going to keep buying CGC slabs and yet there WILL be ripples from this scam for a long time. Example: if CGC introduces "Slab 2.0" with better security features, what happens to all the current "legacy" cases? They instantly become an inferior product -- those slabs will be worth less and Slab 2.0 books will be worth more. It's GOING to happen. And there are going to be folks who trust CGC less because they had unrealistic expectations regarding how tamper-proof the current cases were in the first place. But most of all, this comes at a bad time for the hobby, with the MCU imploding and controversies regarding how creators are writing current comics -- it's like a trifecta of crap, and I personally believe there's going to be a significant impact throughout 2024 and beyond.
The overreactions to your post are not surprising. This happens when there is a lack of credible information about this scandal combined with heightened uncertainty. Although we are likely never going to know the exact number of defrauded slabs, I too believe it is a very tiny percentage of the total graded slabs. Trust definitely has taken a small hit but CGC can quickly restore it if they respond in the right way with changes that address the issue. I am one who isn’t currently worried about the value of my graded slabs.
Great thoughts and video Alex!
As far as my personal take on this, yes I still mostly trust graded books. Like you mentioned it is a very statistically low chance you buy a lemon. I would much sooner accept CGC’s grade than a random online dealer selling me a book that he calls “NM”.
That said, I do also think the story is a big deal and it has given me some pause on certain books/slabs (hulk 181 is gonna need to be in raw and in person, haha. Though that's how I buy most stuff anyway).
For me the ultimate trust will come from CGC’s actions. Will they actually investigate? Compensate people? Improve case security? Etc. Those types of things will be what I look for the most.
I sincerely enjoy your content and all of your thoughts on this. I stepped into grey area in this video to where you could say “Alex is calling out swagglehaus.” That is certainly not my intention and I would be an am very apologetic if it comes off like that. My intentions were to honor the places where I get my info and add my thoughts. I also, don’t want to diminish the severity of this offense, but at the same time bring a realistic and statistical view on it.
Oh and I know I misunderstood the 85 million collectibles, but even a more realistic 10 million comics would still be not statistically significant. There would have to be an outrageous and unrealistic 250,000 plus scammer success rate.
Hope you are well and the moment you, Ryan or Drew say “bro take that crappy video down…”. I’ll do it.
Good point. It's a shame that this happened. But I'll continue to buy slabs.
Here's what your "statistics analysis" is missing: the scammer focused almost exclusively on a handful of books. 57 grade 9.8 ASM 194's on the CGC list so far. That's over 10% of the entire CGC census of 9.8's for that book. A figure I would call EXTREMELY statistically significant. So if someone was buying ASM 252, 194, or 300 slabbed in high grade, they should be VERY careful indeed.
And my number of total comic’s graded was off by 80 million.
Stop it! You are all delusional that your $50-500 slabs are in question…. Oh wait my BRZRZR #1 has been tampered with 🤣🤣🤣!
This guy was only dealing in $1-30k books, don’t lose your mind over your 9.2 New Mutants 98 or your 9,2 X-men 266 Newsstand.
Stop it!
You were never the target audience! Stop pretending you ever in a million years you were!🤣🤣🤣
I think we are in agreement. And actually love your comment. I feel like this is exactly what I’m thinking, but didn’t say it that way. Cracks me up. Love this.
I like graded books, but the issue everyone should be discussing is that this happened in CGC's house. It was bad enough that we are paying to grade our books and sometimes not have any grader notes, but this is a whole new level of sloppiness. Everyone is "assuming" that it was this one person or a small group of people, but it could have been an inside job. How hard would it be to have CGC install security cameras where key events are happening. Receiving, grading, encapsulating, reholdering, etc. At least there would be a way for CGC to investigate if books are being accidently damaged, mishandled, or some kind of shenanigans going on. Everyone should look at the big picture of what are we receiving for our hard earned bucks. We should be expecting more than what we are accepting from them (CGC & CBCS). Think about it....
Very valid and well said. This is why I love and welcome the comments. Gives me added perspective on things I should be considering. I like the aspect of expecting more from a company we are giving our hard earned money too. We do spend a lot in this hobby. For years I have given them tons of business. I should be expecting much more. Great call out and comment.
The Immaculate Comics YT channel demonstrated how the slab could have been opened with heat. He did not prove you can crack a slab and reseal it with NO trace of alteration to the slab. He admits this in his video, which resulted in signs of tampering (even on the side opened with more care)! In other words, just remain vigilant and diligent in your inspection of slabs (which we all should be doing anyway after a purchase) and you should be fine.
YT channels are blowing this out of proportion either intentionally (for page views) or recklessly/negligently by not evaluating that YT demonstration carefully for both what it shows and doesn't show. We should be judging the proof ourselves and not be misled like sheep. Anyway, because it still appears that a simple inspection of a slab in hand should show any tampering, I will continue my hunt for CGC books on my want list. Of course, CGC should endeavor to improve their slabs, like adding the cert# to the inner well, too. In the meantime, we CAN look out for ourselves a bit better.
Very well said and I completely agree with you. I ended up watching that video yesterday and I was very eye opening. Kind of scary to think how easy he made it look.
I can't even imagine the example CGC will make of this scammer.. ..They are going after them with everything they got hahaha Hopefully it will deter future scammers
Yeah. In a way I feel bad for that guy in regards to how bad of a decision this was. I hope they don’t have a family.
This person was targeting books that were high dollar books that most of us dream about owning one day! I would think that most collections have $50-$500 slabs with maybe a couple higher than that. It would NOT be worth the time or energy for this scammer to go through all of that effort and risk for most of the books that CGC grades! Yes, I trust CGC as a grading company, at the end of the day…. CGC was scammed too!
I love it and trust that most collectors agree with these thoughts including myself.
Rick from immacuclean posted a horrifying video on how easily someone can swap CGC books at home. I cancelled auto renew on my CGC account the next day.
I saw it yesterday. It was insane and I completely agree how horrifying it is. I know it’s for science and demonstration purposes, but I hope he read all of the terms and conditions at CGC.
We should trust CGC as long as they follow through on their actions. This has the potential to erode confidence and must be pursued.
Someone posted a comment on the usage of cash despite counterfeiting. I believe one of the things helping bolster the confidence in cash is the government’s pursuit and prosecution of counterfeiters. CGC needs to help make an example of this scammer.
Couldn’t agree more. Well said.
I did not trust them before. This is just an example of another way they can be scammed. It is not if this number is significant. It is that I hope that this shows a CGC graded book should have no more trust than any other person grading a book.
Totally valid point my friend. Love hearing from you too.
No telling how many have been tampered with thus far but i suspect the number is tiny but could grow as other unscrupulous people decide to do the same thing. The issue now is for cgc to address the issue of the cases and inner sleeves. We all know that cases can easily be open without damaging them and that the labels can be taken right out of the inner sleeve with no cutting. First theyll need to redesign the inner sleeve so the label cannot be removed. I would also like to see the actual sleeve embossed with the grade somewhere on the front and back.Sort of like a watermark. As for the case to make them tamper proof theyll have to redisgn them where they would have to be destroyed to get them open so in that way they cant be reused. As for all the books out there with the old cases people will just need to look cases over very carefully before they buy them as well as the comic. Its not a perfect world but what is. Im certainly not going to stop collecting because of this. Ill take my chances when i do decide to buy a already graded book. I dont overbuy where it breaks the bank for me. So if I lose I lose but I honestly am not going to worry myself sick over it.
Very well thought out comment and thought process. I think we are going to find this more and more, but I’m with you. I’m not going to lose too much sleep over buying slabs.
Excellent points. I still believe this is bigger than 1 person though. Even if so, do your due diligence inspecting cases etc, still less then 1% imo.
Yes. I think this is going to grow in numbers of books and people who participated. Honestly, the more I think about it the more I just get uninterested in the hobby all together
I disagree. You're mixing up the law of averages with how statistics actually work. They are not the same. On average, the Mississippi River is about a foot deep because there are enormous stretches of it where it's very shallow - and yet dozens of people drown in it every year. People don't drown in the sections that are ankle and knee deep. An average is the weakest of all statistical metrics - it tells virtually nothing about what's going on inside the numbers. The chance of an X-Men #94 in 4.0 having been switched out with any lower grade is low because there's not much difference in the value of a 3.0 and a 4.0. Prices increase exponentially above 8.0, while there is very little price difference at the lower grades. The gain from switching out a 9.8 with a 9.0 is thousands of dollars and therefor far, far more likely to have happened. 95% of the 8M comics that are graded won't have this done... it's the expensive ones, and the ones in the very high grades that are now suspect... and while THOSE books are a tiny fraction of the total population, they are also far, far more expensive, so the loss to the buyer is far, far worse - percentage and dollars-wise. Then, there are books with a cover that could pass for a grade that's "close" but has serious internal defects that could cut 90% of any books value. And, as an aside... I don't think it's fair to say that people who feel this way are really just slab-hating collectors - I'm not one - I have about 250 slabs. People saying that have no support for it - it's just their opinion. I can have an opinion that people who are poo-pooing this issue and telling people that it's a "one in a million" (which, it's not - it's far greater than that for the books subject to the scam - it could be 1 in 10) are dealers or collectors who are running scared, and spinning / downplaying the problem for their self-interests because they're sitting on large chunks of money in slabbed books that they're afraid they won't be able to sell without cracking them to confirm they're not missing pinups, pages, or have color touch. But I have no way to support this - so.. I won't say it - LOL. Time will tell how this all shakes out - but as of now, I won't be buying any more slabs.
I haven’t read this fully yet, but I’m definitely going to. I like what I’m seeing in it so far. It’s good to get other perspectives like this.
@@AlextheComicHoarderthis guy gets it…
such a disingenuous use of stats. We aren’t talking about every book ever slabbed by them. We are talking about a much smaller universe or population. He went after the money books. If you are in the market for an ASM 300 the risk this one fella poses to your purchase is a 1 in 20 risk. Now imagine he did double what we know if there was one other scammer I. The United States with the same idea doing it at a similar scale. Now it’s 1 in 10 the risk you are asking us to take, anyone for Russian roulette? You first, Alex?😂🤡
@@captaincomicana4231 when you get a stats degree come back and we can talk. When you get a graduate degree you can get a seat at the table.
@@AlextheComicHoarder have you got a stats degree?
@@captaincomicana4231 I’ve taken it in undergrad and grad school. Did you take it at your homeschool?
100% agree. Dropped similar take in other Comments sections the last few days too.
Thanks for sharing. I honestly think it’s such a small number, but people sure do think this is widespread and involving many collectors dispute evidence.
I've missed seeing your content pop up. Hope you're doing well.
Doing well. Thank you! I’ll definitely get some new videos up soon. Thanks again for everything!
The 85 million were All collectibles over a 36 year period if I read the response correctly but I may be wrong.I read it a few times but I was under the impression that cgc is only 24 yrs
Yeah. I went back and looked. They say “collectibles”. I am not sure if that means 85 million comics, but even if they have only graded 10 million. For it to be statistically significant the scammer or scammers would have had to successfully pull this scam off 250,000 times. I don’t know if that is possible. Who knows.
@@AlextheComicHoarderit was only a few years ago when they sent out emails celebrating 5 million collectibles graded.
Scams are going to happen.. anywhere, with any hobby, with any grading company. From PSA to CGC, they all have had their moments of their reputation put into question. Life will go on however, and people will continue to send their books to CGC. It is in all how they solve the issue at least for me that will help diminish what just occurred. Time will tell.
I’ve seen a few comments about how we are entering a new era of collecting. I agree time will tell.
@@AlextheComicHoarder days of old school are in the rear view mirror
@@upnorthcomics probably pretty accurate. That’s sad, but true.
I’ve been wondering where you have been Alex nice to see a new video from you
More videos to come. They won’t be about this though. That’s for sure.
woah..glad ur back...u been gone for a while...I.miss ur videos.. happy new year alex
Happy new year. I recorded a video explaining where I’ve been, but never released it. Glad to be back. I do have videos to make, so glad you didn’t leave!
Finally someone talking sense ... great PSA!!! ..... okay back to my youtube vacation ,, the beach scene here is amazing !!!
YESSSSS!!!!!
I agree. This needs to be addressed, but most of us will never be affected, and graded books still offer greater reassurance than raw.
On another topic....yeah, don't listen to comic book podcast during your lifting session. lol. Intensity of effort and your ability to push yourself during your set is the most important ingredient for your progress. How much effort are you putting out if you are listening to something that is absorbing or distracting your focus? Throw on some familiar tunes that motivate you. Just some advice. Best to you.
Love it! I throw up some heavy weight listening to them fortunately. But there are days that I do need some good tunes to get going. Haha. I appreciate you.
My short response...yes I still trust them.
Short and sweet and to the point.
Good points! CGC did the right thing. Win win for graded comics and the hobby.
Crap, I forgot to mention you did a video as well. I'm sorry my friend. This was kind of an impulse video.
@@AlextheComicHoarder lol, I don’t mind. I’m going to post a response about this press release tomorrow. 🍻
@@DragonInkComics I can’t wait to watch.
Hi Alex. I agree with your take. This scam sucks. The scammer found a weakness in the system and exploited it. But, yeah I still trust CGC. The number of tainted books is likely out there in a distant decimal place. I hope CGC closes the weakness because the hobby is highly dependent on trusting these grades.
Thank you for your comment my friend. We will certainly see, but for now with the books I’m buying…I’m not worried about this scam affecting me.
Excellent Video and straight to the point. Yes, its a learning experience for CGC and it stinks some collectors were scammed out of their hard earned money but if its an important comic book, I'll choose graded any day of the week over a raw book. Your chances of purchasing a restored issue or worse condition is much greater than a graded book that was tampered with. And if you're purchasing a super expensive book and have doubts, maybe contact the seller and see if he's able to provide proof of purchase. Most are very easy to communicate with.
Excellent comment and I think we are absolutely on the same exact page! Thanks.
Immaculate comics actually did a good video showing how to open a CGC case, swap the comic out and then close it. No need to re-holder.
I’ll check it out. I heard there was a video out there, but I haven’t looked yet.
I agree that it’s likely the total number of tampered CGC slabs is statistically tiny.
Nonetheless, as a practical matter, we are starting into a period of time when darn near anyone who’s trying to sell a high-grade blue label example of the well-known Bronze/Copper/Modern keys will have to spend an awful lot of time dealing with the question “how do I know this slab hasn’t been opened up and the book switched out?!”
Likely follow-ups from brassy potential buyers…
“If you’re so sure, then crack it open now. If the inside looks okay, I’ll buy it, I promise.”
“You can’t be sure it’s legit, so sell it to me for half price.”
“I’ll buy it at full asking price but I want a money-back guarantee because I’m going home to crack the slab.”
and of course…
“I bought this slab from you previously, and when I heard about this scandal I broke it open and look at the interior damage I found - you owe me back X amount of money, now!”
The amount of time and mental energy devoted to these conversations will be mind-boggling.
Totally agree sellers are going to get a host of buyers giving them a hard time for sure. It’s crazy and I think you’re right. This will fundamentally change the hobby big or small. Who knows.
Love this take. 👏👏👏
Thanks so much! I figure it must be said and hopefully i did it respectfully.
I have several hundred graded books and a couple hundred at cgc right now. Super not worried about it.😏
That’s what I’m thinking too. Plus I’m not buying $15,000 modern comics.
I buy golden age so I need a 3rd party grading system but the illusion of a guarantee is gone maybe I was naive but Immaculate comics just showed us how to take apart a slab and put it back together flawlessly 😔
Yikes. I’m going to watch that video, because I’m really curious what that looks like.
People have passed off counterfeit paper money for years, and we still use cash! I agree with your assessment 100%.
People keep arguing with me and say, but there are probably multiple people doing it. In comes your point. Thank you for bringing this up.
I'll have a video release on my channel regarding CGC not quality checking books... I'm not sure the statistical relevance matters if there are numerous issues to be spoken for
I’ll definitely check out your video! Thanks for letting me know. As for statistical significance, I am just saying appears to be an isolated incident. The volume of tampered with books doesn’t and shouldn’t shake the confidence of the entire population of books. The benefits of CGC highly outweigh the extremely small percentage that was tampered with.
Thanks again for the comment.
@@AlextheComicHoarder your point is extremely valid... I'm just saying how many isolated incidents need to happen for credibility to be damaged?
@@PromiscuousTimeTraveler for sure. I know this is going to hurt them. You’re right about that. Thanks again for the time and conversation.
Undoubtedly, CGC's reputation has taken a hit, and the repercussions on slabbed comic prices remain uncertain for the comics in question. The impact on the volume of comics submitted for CGC grading is also unpredictable at this point. Until CGC can assure me that they've addressed the problems with their slabs, I won't be submitting any more comics to them. This doesn't imply a permanent halt to my interest in slabbing or buying comics, but it does mean a temporary pause.
I appreciate the thoughts. It is extremely valid and something CGC will have to consider going forward. There is repercussions to making hundreds of errors. I totally get where you’re coming from.
If you have one of the targeted books, you probably won’t be able sell it until it’s re-graded in a new protected case - bummer.
@@shepherdsknoll no doubt. I’m glad CGC is going to help people financially it seems.
So much drama!! You’re 100 percent right, I think the same thing… still watch the drama with my popcorn, though 😂
Oh 100%! I cant get enough of it myself. I love those channels too. great comment!
@@AlextheComicHoarder absolutely. Swaggle seems to really have find his voice. Immaculate comics is in a league of its own. Jerno... is Jernoing 😂 but all of it, fantastic content and people.
@@AmedeeBoulette yeah. I’d rather have all the content, the opinions and the voices. Keeps it interesting for sure.
I agree that in the grand scheme of things, there isn't anything to worry about. However I would like to point out that the number is alot less than 85 Million, Here is the quote from CCG (aka CGC) "CCG exists to protect the collecting community, and in the last 36 years we have certified more than 85 million collectibles" It's alot closer to 10 Million just Comics and I do think that could make a difference considering it's most likely not just 1 person doing this and it won't stop until something at CGC changes. Anyways that's my 2 cents
Yeah I looked up what their estimated total graded books was and saw the 10 million. To be statistically significant at that level the scammer or scammers would still need to successfully pull this off 250,000 times. I don’t think that is possible, but yes I think you’re 10 million might be more accurate to total comics graded.
True true
Lol not a signifigant ? Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things? You are hilarious !
Of all the opposing opinions, who have all been much more respectful, yours is the one I’m calling garbage.
@AlextheComicHoarder coming from the garbage 🗑 outlook and double downing on its no biggie ya okay guy. You're a part of the problem
@@Caliknows you’re not welcome here. You can disagree and we can have a discussion. However, I’m not going to be insulted by a keyboard warrior.
@AlextheComicHoarder all I said was you're hilarious ie funny and you call me garbage? Like get a grip! You're the toxic one. Not me. As if I'd ever want to watch any of your videos or hear what you have to say with how reactionary you are. Not humble at all. Get bent out of shape over nothing, you're a joke 😃
100% 👏 he’s lying through his teeth, protecting his investment and hoping we are too dumb to notice… automatic Unsub of this guy and any others who treat their audience with such contempt…
such a disingenuous use of stats. We aren’t talking about every book ever slabbed by them. We are talking about a much smaller universe or population. He went after the money books. If you are in the market for an ASM 300 the risk this one fella poses to your purchase is a 1 in 20 risk. Now imagine he did double what we know if there was one other scammer I. The United States with the same idea doing it at a similar scale. Now it’s 1 in 10 the risk you are asking us to take, anyone for Russian roulette? You first, Alex?😂🤡
You are correct 👍🏾🖖🏾… just need to fix some process.
If a terrorist flies a plane into a building, do you stop flying or you start to check suspicious people?!
Spot on. It is a very small percentage of books graded overall that were likely affected and it seems like cgc is making things right for those who were defrauded by this scheme.
Yeah sad situation all around. Thanks for commenting my friend!
I think your absolutely right. I trust CGC as a reputable grading company. Thanks for sharing.
I appreciate you. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
The fact that CGC are addressing the issue, speaks volumes… I’m sure they will make changes required to rectify this and improve the integrity of the cases, it’s the dishonest scammers that we should be concentrating on. Thanks Alex for being a breath of fresh air on this issue 🙏
Yes! 100%. Thank you for watching and commenting! Means a lot to me.