I knew The Great Gatsby was going to be the book you held up first. I know it’s unoriginal, but it is my very favorite novel. I reread it every year. And continuing my unoriginal streak, Grapes of Wrath is my second very favorite novel. I am also plowing through The Pulitzer Prize winners for Fiction/Novel. This year’s winner and finalists made for disappointing reading in my view. This is a fascinating topic, Greg, and you have given us a lot of good information. You are correct that the Great American Novel is quite exclusionary, however, Nick Carraway, the narrator in Gatsby, has a homosexual experience in chapter two and there is a school of thought that Nick was actually gay and in love with Gatsby.
The Great Gatsby is a good book, so I don't blame you for rereading it and calling it a favorite. Classics are classics for a reason, so I wouldn't worry about feeling unoriginal. Classics need defenders in order to remain vital. 😊 I'm still waiting on my copy of The Netanyahus. Reaction has been pretty middling so far so I'm prepared to be underwhelmed.
This is a well thought out and articulated discussion. I think the idea of the “great American novel” list or collection is a fabulous idea. No one book can encompass everything about a country. I think East of Eden also deserves consideration for this list.
Thank you! I will say that a lot of the stuff I talk about in Lonesome Dove is very subtle in the book. McMurtry doesn't make his critique obvious but it is absolutely there.
Greg, this is an extraordinarily well crafted discussion and a video that I hope is referenced often. As a Canadian, I grew up with a will to search and read anything and everything that was identified as the Great American Novel and I read many of the books you talked about here. I have never really thought about how that concept entered my reading life and why it mattered to me as a non-American. Could I ever really judge it looking from the outside in, trying to understand an American ideal that was pretty fixed. I certainly do not think it fixed nor can it be especially for present day. Much food for thought especially for anyone venturing in to these novels for the first time. Great viewer comments as well. Well done!
As a non-American I find the idea and the hunt for "The Great American Novel" part of the mythos of the USA, it smacks of a culture that in the nineteenth century felt it was a late arrival on the scene and had to blow its trumpet That the concept still hangs around when American culture is so dominant in the world seems odd to me.
@@SupposedlyFun I suspect that is largely because their novel tradition started before the rise of the need for a “great xxx novel“ after the American Civil War?!?
A fascinating discussion, and I appreciate the fact that you mention how women, people of color, and the LGBTQIAP+ community is often left off of discussions about the "Great American Novel"--- as well as what many consider "genre fiction". When I was in college, "Huckleberry Finn" was discussed under these terms, with the idea that the "Great American Novel" had certain criteria like the protagonist going on a journey (often both physical and emotional), hence things like "Catcher in the Rye" and even "On the Road" are connected to the Great American Novel lineage started with Huck Finn. But again, this leaves out so many diverse stories and experiences. Why isn't "Their Eyes Were Watching God" considered by more people (it is one of my favorites), or other works from the Harlem Renaissance? It is a hard question to tackle, but you've really dug into it here. One novel I read in the last few years that, to me, felt distinctly American and diverse (in terms of class, race, experience, etc.) was "Ragtime" by E.L. Doctorow. That would be on my list, with others like Zora Neale Hurston, John Steinbeck, and even Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter", and contemporaries like Jesmyn Ward. And, whether classified as YA lit or not, "The Hate U Give" by Angie Thomas is an important contemporary American novel in a big way. Sorry for the long comment. Your video just go me thinking...
I think that novels like Their Eyes Were Watching God (I still need to read it, by the way) are unfairly treated as a subcategory of great literature. People tend to think of it and books like it as something smaller like "Harlem Renaissance" and fail to make the jump to larger conversations like the Great American Novel. I'm hopeful that it's something that will change over time. I also need to get to Ragtime. Too many books to consider! I struggle with how to place contemporary books in the long-term story of American literature/history. I do think Jesmyn Ward and Angie Thomas have a good chance at being in it for the long haul, but time will tell, I guess.
This is so well done. I really appreciate the information and commentary. I love The Great Gatsby. It was the first book I read at school that really struck me. I recommend No-No Boy by John Okada as a book that needs more attention and could fit this coming from someone in an overlooked population. It is about a character who is put into an internment camp during WWII for his Japanese heritage and then is put in prison for refusing to fight in the war. This is the author's only book. It did not receive attention in Okada's lifetime. One of my favorite books of all-time is The Street by Ann Petry. It is the first book to sell a million copies by a Black woman. It is about a black woman during the 1940s, when it was published. It is the most American book I have ever read. It talks about capitalism, racism, gender, class. It is so well done and I think the closest thing I have found as "The Great American Novel".
Wow, No-No Boy sounds fantastic. I'll look for a copy! I've heard good things about The Street as well, so I'll have to seek that one out as well. Thank you for the recommendations!
Thanks for having a go at this topic. I have read most on your initial list of contenders although not Lonesome Dove. Maybe one day as you make a good case for it. I think the interesting question is why there is a search for the GAN. I don't think anyone would seriously try to identify the Great English Novel or Irish or French and so on.
My guess re: why the idea of a GAN came to be would be a need to create an "American culture" for the new state; where other nations (in the sociological sense as a cultural group) could draw upon legendary histories with national epics as a foundation for literature, the U.S. was coming into being in a period when the novel...um...novel literary form was coming into the vogue. I might argue for the English "Le Morte d'Arthur" [EDIT: or perhaps "The Faerie Queen"], Irish "Ulster Cycle" or "Caoineadh Air Uí Laoghaire", & French "Song of Roland" as the closest equivalents for their respective cultures.
You have a lovely garden :) This was such an interesting topic, as someone from the UK my first thought was of the Great Gatsby but I've added quite a few of the books you've mentioned to my list, I would never previously have thought of reading Lonesome Dove but it sounds really good!
Thank you--the garden is all Joel's doing! I can take no credit. I hope you enjoy any of the books that you pick up. I will say that a lot of the things I talk about with Lonesome Dove are subtext, but to me they were very apparent when I read it.
I never read The Scarlet Letter nor Moby Dick until after I was forty. I am sooo glad I read them at mid life. They are both astonishing. If you haven’t read them, treat yourself. They are revelatory.
I haven’t read either but have been curious. I have a copy of Moby Dick so maybe someday. I feel like I would be much more likely to get to The Scarlet Letter first.
@@SupposedlyFun When I read The Scarlet Letter, I kept flipping back to the original publication date. I couldn’t believe it. It seemed so MODERN. And I read somewhere, I think, that Moby Dick was “a happy book.”🤷🏻♀️ I did like the moments of aliveness and pure joy that I found in it. Like when the whales are described as playing “kitten-like,” or when whaling ships find each other and spend time socializing. And the “Lee Shore” chapter never ceases to fascinate … Now I’m tempted to throw all my other reading aside and run back to those! Lol
This was great. Your discussion of Gatsby and pointing our how it, and most other novels in consideration for the title, actually subvert the idea of America's greatness and/or destroy American myths was great. As you point out defining The Great American novel is fairly exclusionary. So many genre's and groups are automatically eliminated in the minds of most people because unfortunately until recently we, as a society, have used straight whiteness as the default (we still do) so that it a book doesn't represent the straight white experience we disqualify it from consideration for the title. Great discussion of _Lonesome Dove_ and its myth busting themes.
Thank you! It's been a very interesting topic to think about and I look forward to thinking about it more in the future. Realizing that so many books people point to as the Great American Novel are actually subversive was definitely a 🤯 moment for me.
Great list of which I have only read three. I will correct that. Also, you gave a very good explanation of the US. I do like Great Gatsby but you raised good questions about the lack of Native Americans and Immigrants stories on the usual lists. Based on what you have said I feel it would be impossible to pick one book to represent america. If I had to choose it would be The People's History...I know, it's non-fic. :>( TY for recommending Interpreter of Maladies. I enjoyed that collection and am also in the middle of Agatha and the Little Neon which I like so much. I would not have found Agatha on my own so very grateful. My first read of James Baldwin was just a week ago, Giovanni's Room and it was heartbreaking.
I'm so glad you've been enjoying Interpreter of Maladies, Agatha of Little Neon, and James Baldwin! I really hope more people discover Agatha of Little Neon. It's a gem of a novel.
Well said. I really appreciated your closing statement it was something I wish I could articulate as well as you. It seems the unstated criteria for the GAN is an old popular book that continues to be popular. There are so many books and books you never read let alone see and ever get to be popular I think there’s really no such thing as a GAN
I didn't talk about it in the video because it's something I've only been thinking about since this posted, but it's interesting that most other countries aren't so concerned with defining their best under this kind of branding.
This is a really thoughtful assessment. I agree with your "start list" although I would throw Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in because I think it gets underrated by being perpetually trapped in high school English classes. I feel like The Great American Novel could be a fantastic year long reading challenge to explore the mainstays, the overlooked and the newcomers.
That would indeed be a fascinating reading challenge. I think a subconscious motive for my Pulitzer Project was to do something along those lines--especially since I want to look at what was overlooked in addition to what won.
I'm so glad I didn't scroll past this video, as I was going to do. "Great American Novel"?! 🙄 It will be saved for the future as one of the best videos I've seen on Booktube. Thanks for confirming part of my tbr for the rest of 2022. Lonesome Dove WAS on it last month but the Booktube Prize took precedence. What a beautiful back yard!
Wow, thank you so much! That means a lot. I will say that a lot of the things I talk about with Lonesome Dove are subtext: McMurtry doesn't make the arguments out loud, which some people have taken issue with, but the subversive meaning is definitely there and was very apparent to me.
Do I Agree...? HELLA YESSSS!!! 💯💯💯👍👍👌 Nicely done...brilliantly articulated...so refreshing to have such a comprehensive perspective on "Theee American Dream". I mean, America as a country of Entrepreneurs has always fascinated me. I have fallen head over heels for many celebrities there, Roxane Gay, Debbie Millman, AOC...to name a few! Yet since I learnt at school that Native Americans are still called Indians, it's kinda left a sour taste. But now, ofc, looking on a global scale here, from India, a lot is happening there and it seems a real dialogue between...what was and what will be, which needs soooo much more comprehension than what a lot of politicians are allowing for!!! Hope it gets better for marginalized and minority communities there, a very interesting investigation in this video. So happy to watch it and totally gonna read your listing ASAP. Beloved is sooooo getting Read soon!!!! With others ofc...in time! My TBR is only getting brutal, every passing day...Woah!!!
Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed this discussion. I definitely find it fascinating and I'm glad others do as well. I hope things get better for marginalized communities, too. And my TBR is also feeling brutal--and growing all the time!
I think "New York: The Novel" by Edward Rutherford could be a contender for the list as well. I LOVED this book and I'm not even a huge fan of Historical Fiction. Instead of writing my own essay about what the book is about, here's a brief/overall "snip" from - sorry, I know you hate amazon but it's the best "nutshell" description I could find: "Edward Rutherfurd celebrates America’s greatest city in a rich, engrossing saga, weaving together tales of families rich and poor, native-born and immigrant-a cast of fictional and true characters whose fates rise and fall and rise again with the city’s fortunes. From this intimate perspective we see New York’s humble beginnings as a tiny Indian fishing village, the arrival of Dutch and British merchants, the Revolutionary War, the emergence of the city as a great trading and financial center, the convulsions of the Civil War, the excesses of the Gilded Age, the explosion of immigration in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the trials of World War II, the near demise of New York in the 1970s and its roaring rebirth in the 1990s, and the attack on the World Trade Center. A stirring mix of battle, romance, family struggles, and personal triumphs, New York: The Novel gloriously captures the search for freedom and opportunity at the heart of our nation’s history." Also, I KNEW you'd be talking about "Lonesome Dove" at some point, LOL. That's obviously a favorite of mine as well. And since you mentioned the role of women in that one, specifically the part about Lorena's arc (the whore, or "sporting woman" as she's called quite often throughout the novel), and I know you don't plan on reading the other Lonesome Dove books, so I don't think this is a true Spoiler, her arc blossoms in those -- she actually marries Pea-Eye and becomes a school teacher! Great video! ...and I'm loving the back yard/outside back-drop!
I've heard great things about Rutherford (and New York in particular) but haven't tried him yet. I'll have to try to fix that. Thank you for the blurb! And that's good to know about Lorena's story arc--I'm glad she finds happiness and peace in the later novels! Thank you for telling me. I did like the final product after filming in the backyard (I was very concerned about noise/sound quality), so I will have to do it again!
Well, you've persuaded me to buy Lonesome Dove - and it seems I must also look more closely at Louise Erdrich (I read The Beet Queen decades ago, but that's it)...
Not an American but I think we should all fall behind The Love Songs of W.E.B. Du Bois as the GAN because even if it’s not it should be. Criminally ignored by literary prizes means we should trumpet it all the more. Nuff said!
I read Willa Cather's Death of the Archbishop last year and I'm keen to read more of her's. I immediately thought of this one when this video came up on my feed. Interesting that you mention Mark Twain and Louisa May Alcott's Little Women, I read both as a kid and I think they are so distant in my memory which is why I don't think of them much. I also read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith as a child and that is one that I'd consider as well. James Michener's novels are epic and when I read his "Centennial" as a young teen in the late 70s-early 80s it was the first time I'd heard about the Indian massacres (Sand Creek Massacre) and seen Indians written as anything but the bad guys. It started me thinking about my own Australian history and our treatment of indigenous Australians. Roots by Alex Haley was a really powerful book, when I read it in the late 80s too. I think that book has really woven into my understanding of the USA. The Other Americans (2019) is a mystery novel written by Moroccan American novelist Laila Lalami, is another one that's stayed with me, I think it's been a couple of years since I read it.
The best you can do is make a list. The Great Gatsby I think will always be (a) top contender for me. As it fits the disillusionment and hope and humanness and one the books I relate to most despite not being American. I always find things like the Civil War alienating as a Canadian and the inherent racism involved. But also I am not American so my opinion is outside of the realm. It does make me curious to look at what is the great Canadian list
Civil War literature is a MINEFIELD. So much of it is problematic or downright racist, or does too much to try to minimize what was bad about it. And so much of it also tries to glorify the conflict as heroic. I would be very curious to hear what you think would be on the list for Canada!
I'm with you! I think putting together a collection of The Great American Novels would be the way to go! This way, you get a wide range of perspectives. Just lock a diverse board of literary scholars in a room and don't let them come out until they've compiled a comprehensive list. And then, when a new book comes around that's deemed "worthy" of being included in said collection, you just add it to the list! I would throw Imagine Me Gone by Adam Haslett in the ring of possibilities, but I'm not a scholar so... 🤷🏻♂️ lol.
I have never liked the Great Gatsby, although I know many people would name it the Great American Novel. Thanks for your perspectives as always. I read an interesting book called When Books Went to War, which discusses a special publishing system during WWII, which produced many novels in a pocket sized format, so that soldiers could carry them easily. Many Gatsbys were likely published in that program
As an outside looking in on America - I think the key elements to the Great American Novel are grounded in movement, both physical and ideological. America is a capitalist nation, and that idea of movement is essential to progress, and all the harms that it causes. Many of the Great American Novel are about physical movement across the nation (McCarthy, Twain etc.) or ideological movement (Baldwin, Morrison). So for me, if you had to name one, and as you point out there really can’t be one, for me, it is Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck. What a novel!!
Great video! Thank you. Top 2 for me are “The Great Gatsby” and “American Pastoral.” I think they both capture a country mythologizing itself. As Michiko Kakutani eloquently stated in her review of “American Pastoral”: “Mr. Roth has chronicled the rise and fall of one man’s fortunes and in doing so created a resonant parable of American innocence and disillusion.”
I’ve seen both Invisible Man and Their Eyes Were Watching God included in discussions about The Great American Novel. And I think they’re both deserving of that title. I read both in school and they’re both great.
I mentioned it in the video but I haven't read it yet. I hope to do it this year--Joel read it in January or February and loved it. I've only seen the movie.
Fantastic video! I agree that there is no single Great American Novel. I think your list is excellent. Nella Larsen’s Passing would be a worthy addition. It feels to me like the list is missing more recent titles. Just as America evolves, so should what is considered the Great American Novel. It can’t be based solely on static ideals of the past or we get caught in the trap of the people today who want the country to go backwards to some perfect era. Issues like homelessness, mental health, judicial/political overreach, violence, addiction, gentrification, redefinition of the middle class, disability, and nationalism all have their places in modern America. I wish I were well read enough to put novels to each of those categories, but I’m not, particularly in American writing. (And I’m American.) Maybe there aren’t great novels about these issues yet. I guess my point is that the Great American Novel is definitely a group of novels and it needs to grow to reflect changes in our society. Really, really thought-provoking video, Greg. I loved it. I will put your list on my TBR (although the length of Lonesome Dove makes it an unlikely read for me).
I struggle with how to add new titles to the list because it's so hard to know which ones will still be relevant down the road. Someone else mentioned Jesmyn Ward in another comment and I feel like she has a very good chance.
@@SupposedlyFun I think I have all of her books, if not, I’ve got three, but I haven’t read any of them yet. Insert guilty emoji. After reading The Trees, I would say Percival Everett has a very good chance to be on this list at some point. And I’ve just remembered Colson Whitehead’s The Nickel Boys (duh), which I think hits all the criteria for a great American novel.
@@mradcaqbdb Part of me wonders if Colson Whitehead is going to be a victim of his own success, but he does have a good chance at staying power. Everett could do it as well.
A lot of worthy candidates, but the three that loom over the pack, IMO, are (in no particular order) are The Great Gatsby, Huckleberry Finn, and Moby Dick.
Hi Greg, I noticed there was a review of a book in The Sydney Morning Herald called “The Wrath to Come: Gone with the Wind and the Lies America Tells Sarah Churchwell Head of Zeus, $39.99 It looks at the racism of Gone With the Wind and how it applies in the last horrible president’s America - Peter
i thought i voted on that poll for louise erdrich's 'the last report on the miracles at little no horse" if not here's my belated vote for my great american novel.
The great American novel is one word... NOSTALGIA. It is not a singular novel. It is not the entirety of the country. It is merely a story that gives a snapshot of the authentic or average American history experience. I like that you shout out diversity. But i don't like how you politicize awards. The best story should be chosen. Not a story that's good enough to win and is written by a minority. The BEST. As for an American novel. It cant be just one. I think even a racist novel like gone with the wind should be considered a great American novel. lonesome dove is a good one too.
there can't be a Great American Novel. because it is all of those and many more to come. for NA authors: There, There by Tommy Orange, and will someone please read /talk about The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven by Sherman Alexie !! one of my all time faves. in my top 5.
I considered mentioning Sherman Alexie but I've only read one of his books (not the one you mentioned) and given the controversy around him in recent years, I decided to leave him off the list. I do want to read Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven someday, though. There There is a great book.
@@SupposedlyFun I also love Sherman Alexie’s books, but I never mention him online because I know he admitted to sexual harassment of several women. I also love Richard Ford’s writing only to find out that he spat (wtf?!) on Colson Whitehead and remains unrepentant, which confirms it did happen. Have you ever had one of your favorite authors exposed as a not-so-stellar human being? I would love to see your take on this topic in a future video.
@@athertonca I didn't know that about Richard Ford! WtF?! I have definitely had it happen to me. In the past, I've talked about choosing not to discuss JK Rowling or Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie on my channel anymore. Those are probably the biggest examples.
You're backyard is beautiful! There is no one GAN, just like there isn't one for any other country. If I had to vote, I'd say Call It Sleep. It's the best immigrant novel. Also, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.
This video is a decent encapsulation of the state of modern American literary criticism. SPOILER ALERT: It’s unoriginal, intensely (and overly) focused on issues of “social justice”, and just generally not great.
The great american novel discussion is similar to the “goat” discussions. Time is a variable that cant be solved until its over…so what the hell does it matter 😂.
The novelists and film makers of the land here, often considered “great”- it’s best to recognize, a fundamental flaw in their workings. They decided, vocationally, to work and build on the concept of an “America”, conceptually a great nation; perhaps better than all others. They decided to strengthen confidence and belief on a basically flawed concept; make surrogate medicine. The famous actors, depicting “American” heroes; American perfect rectitude in dealings with all other peoples. This is all very much Propaganda, for a false Revolution, the American. For this, all of these, who might have been vocationally successful, were consigned to Punishment, in the Afterlife. They could magically evoke, often, a story which people find engrossing; it is only surrogate medicine, which like synthetic, is of Forbidden. Again and again, and again, I stress that the only solution is to accept a Doctrine, modified from the popular ignorance one, that there never was an “America” portended from Foredesign. There is no Race called by the Name American, the word of Deception means “Not Race” or Race Apostate; became of Forbidden, with that old Aquarius; you cannot have a new Race, American, neither a New World called America. It means subtly, We kill and will kill for a Land Stake we’ve made here, poor people in need of money. All talk, in a former religion, about a False Prophet, refers specifically to the American President, indirectly to the Revolution. He could bring about the destruction of the entire civilisation, being able to “make fire fall from Heaven”. Phony President of a Not-Race people, who generally believe in the lie, “American”. The only solution is to receive the Explanation, that the Over Sign of the land here became or is fully Celtic; best to Name it is Nova Scotia or Alba Nuadhl; that all are deceived through an English Race concept, from English Vampirism, no one having even English ancestors. All who sought to Build and develop on an America concept were sent to a Punishment; the Revolutionaries, eternally of Perdition. A typical Miasm, involving very incredibly low vitality, energy, renewal and Spirit, can only be improved if the Land is made a Race Land; through changing language to Scottish Gaelic, and the Land’s Name to Nova Scotia, this could be made a Race Land. The race must have Restoration, in what was lost through the Pirate Land Grab, American Revolution; more anciently, through Anglicisation. Restoration, Celtic Redemption or Gospel, these are all meaningful, in this context. Forsake Not-Race existence, find a true Race Channel, Blessing, Energy; stop being of a phony concept and apostasy, American…
The American Novel that has had the biggest impact on me was Ohio by Stephen Markley. It didn’t win any big prizes but I think it’s great. If there is a great American dream then there also has to be a great American nightmare.
That is a very valid opinion. I think that and Lonesome Dove are the two strongest contenders and Beloved is a much sharper critique that is ultimately more crucial. So I could be persuaded to your thinking that Beloved is the only real candidate.
I think the reason why mostly white authors are in the conversation about having written the Great American Novel is because the need for such a novel comes from a feeling of cultural and/or historical insecurity towards Europe. White Americans feel the need to have a Great American Novel to match Middlemarch, Don Quijote etc. It's also why Americans have these hall of fames for everything: to make up for a lack of history in a way. Of course America has just as much history as Europe or any other place for that matter but White America does not. White Americans feel insecure because their culture did not have as much time to create things like the Great American Novel but because of American Exceptionalism they feel like there should be one, so they kind of force it into existence. But it is interesting that it seems to have changed a little over time as Black Americans and Americans of Color who are not as invested in not falling short of matching Europe in that regard, have become more likely to be considered potential authors of the Great American Novel. Also, the idea of America being permanent seems to be inherent to setting out to write the Great American Novel as people like Philip Roth did. Most other regions of the world have made the experience that countries or nations fall apart. Why write the Great Yugoslavian Novel when it's not going to be around forever. Tying your novel to a non permanent entity like that is weird to a lot of people elsewhere and probably why authors in other countries don't set out to do it in the way American writers do.
I definitely agree that the quest for the Great American Novel came from a desire to legitimize America as an artistic, cultural, and governmental authority in the world. And the reversal in the present day where it turns out that the people best equipped to tell the story of this country are the ones who have experienced the worst of it really is fascinating.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
LOVE both your analysis and your shortlist.
Thanks!
I knew The Great Gatsby was going to be the book you held up first. I know it’s unoriginal, but it is my very favorite novel. I reread it every year. And continuing my unoriginal streak, Grapes of Wrath is my second very favorite novel. I am also plowing through The Pulitzer Prize winners for Fiction/Novel. This year’s winner and finalists made for disappointing reading in my view. This is a fascinating topic, Greg, and you have given us a lot of good information. You are correct that the Great American Novel is quite exclusionary, however, Nick Carraway, the narrator in Gatsby, has a homosexual experience in chapter two and there is a school of thought that Nick was actually gay and in love with Gatsby.
The Great Gatsby is a good book, so I don't blame you for rereading it and calling it a favorite. Classics are classics for a reason, so I wouldn't worry about feeling unoriginal. Classics need defenders in order to remain vital. 😊
I'm still waiting on my copy of The Netanyahus. Reaction has been pretty middling so far so I'm prepared to be underwhelmed.
I have just come here by random chance, what a pleasure! Great content. Peace.
Thank you so much!
Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
This is a well thought out and articulated discussion. I think the idea of the “great American novel” list or collection is a fabulous idea. No one book can encompass everything about a country. I think East of Eden also deserves consideration for this list.
I really need to read East of Eden. I've heard so many good things.
I'm all for making another list! Great video. Really has me interested in Lonesome Dove now.
Also, nice yard!
Thank you! I will say that a lot of the stuff I talk about in Lonesome Dove is very subtle in the book. McMurtry doesn't make his critique obvious but it is absolutely there.
@@SupposedlyFun I prefer subtle in my LitFic.
@@dqan7372 Then you're good to go! 😊
Wowza! Congrats to you for the research you did on this topic! My authors to read list has lengthened due to this post. Thanks
Thank you for watching!
I'm a fan of the outside location. This type of deep dive on topics is a big part of what I love about your channel. Amazing video! Well thought out!
Thank you! I enjoy doing them so I'm glad it works on both sides. 😊
i really love this background AND this video!! well done!! very comprehensive and thoughtful! your shortlist is a great start!!
Thank you! I was very nervous about background noise/sound quality but I was pleased with the final result in the backyard. 🤗
Greg, this is an extraordinarily well crafted discussion and a video that I hope is referenced often. As a Canadian, I grew up with a will to search and read anything and everything that was identified as the Great American Novel and I read many of the books you talked about here. I have never really thought about how that concept entered my reading life and why it mattered to me as a non-American. Could I ever really judge it looking from the outside in, trying to understand an American ideal that was pretty fixed. I certainly do not think it fixed nor can it be especially for present day. Much food for thought especially for anyone venturing in to these novels for the first time. Great viewer comments as well. Well done!
Thank you so much--that is very kind. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. If nothing else, I gave myself something I can constantly link back to. 😉
As a non-American
I find the idea and the hunt for
"The Great American Novel"
part of the mythos of the USA,
it smacks of a culture that in the nineteenth century
felt it was a late arrival on the scene
and had to blow its trumpet
That the concept still hangs around when
American culture is so dominant in the world
seems odd to me.
It is interesting that other countries don't try so hard to identify a singular work of art that sums up their culture.
@@SupposedlyFun
I suspect that is largely because
their novel tradition started before
the rise of the need for a “great xxx novel“
after the American Civil War?!?
@@johncrwarner That makes sense.
@@SupposedlyFun
So that worries me as
I NEVER make sense
@@johncrwarner 😂 😂
Great list at the end! I definitely think it's a good starting point.
Thank you!
A fascinating discussion, and I appreciate the fact that you mention how women, people of color, and the LGBTQIAP+ community is often left off of discussions about the "Great American Novel"--- as well as what many consider "genre fiction". When I was in college, "Huckleberry Finn" was discussed under these terms, with the idea that the "Great American Novel" had certain criteria like the protagonist going on a journey (often both physical and emotional), hence things like "Catcher in the Rye" and even "On the Road" are connected to the Great American Novel lineage started with Huck Finn.
But again, this leaves out so many diverse stories and experiences.
Why isn't "Their Eyes Were Watching God" considered by more people (it is one of my favorites), or other works from the Harlem Renaissance?
It is a hard question to tackle, but you've really dug into it here.
One novel I read in the last few years that, to me, felt distinctly American and diverse (in terms of class, race, experience, etc.) was "Ragtime" by E.L. Doctorow. That would be on my list, with others like Zora Neale Hurston, John Steinbeck, and even Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter", and contemporaries like Jesmyn Ward. And, whether classified as YA lit or not, "The Hate U Give" by Angie Thomas is an important contemporary American novel in a big way.
Sorry for the long comment. Your video just go me thinking...
I think that novels like Their Eyes Were Watching God (I still need to read it, by the way) are unfairly treated as a subcategory of great literature. People tend to think of it and books like it as something smaller like "Harlem Renaissance" and fail to make the jump to larger conversations like the Great American Novel. I'm hopeful that it's something that will change over time.
I also need to get to Ragtime. Too many books to consider!
I struggle with how to place contemporary books in the long-term story of American literature/history. I do think Jesmyn Ward and Angie Thomas have a good chance at being in it for the long haul, but time will tell, I guess.
Great video, great short list! Unlike my TBR which just keeps getting longer!
Haha, mine too! Thanks for watching.
This is so well done. I really appreciate the information and commentary. I love The Great Gatsby. It was the first book I read at school that really struck me.
I recommend No-No Boy by John Okada as a book that needs more attention and could fit this coming from someone in an overlooked population. It is about a character who is put into an internment camp during WWII for his Japanese heritage and then is put in prison for refusing to fight in the war. This is the author's only book. It did not receive attention in Okada's lifetime.
One of my favorite books of all-time is The Street by Ann Petry. It is the first book to sell a million copies by a Black woman. It is about a black woman during the 1940s, when it was published. It is the most American book I have ever read. It talks about capitalism, racism, gender, class. It is so well done and I think the closest thing I have found as "The Great American Novel".
Wow, No-No Boy sounds fantastic. I'll look for a copy! I've heard good things about The Street as well, so I'll have to seek that one out as well. Thank you for the recommendations!
Thanks for having a go at this topic. I have read most on your initial list of contenders although not Lonesome Dove. Maybe one day as you make a good case for it. I think the interesting question is why there is a search for the GAN. I don't think anyone would seriously try to identify the Great English Novel or Irish or French and so on.
It's so true! Even attempting to find the Great English Novel would be incredibly daunting with all the possible contenders through the years.
My guess re: why the idea of a GAN came to be would be a need to create an "American culture" for the new state; where other nations (in the sociological sense as a cultural group) could draw upon legendary histories with national epics as a foundation for literature, the U.S. was coming into being in a period when the novel...um...novel literary form was coming into the vogue. I might argue for the English "Le Morte d'Arthur" [EDIT: or perhaps "The Faerie Queen"], Irish "Ulster Cycle" or "Caoineadh Air Uí Laoghaire", & French "Song of Roland" as the closest equivalents for their respective cultures.
You have a lovely garden :) This was such an interesting topic, as someone from the UK my first thought was of the Great Gatsby but I've added quite a few of the books you've mentioned to my list, I would never previously have thought of reading Lonesome Dove but it sounds really good!
Thank you--the garden is all Joel's doing! I can take no credit. I hope you enjoy any of the books that you pick up. I will say that a lot of the things I talk about with Lonesome Dove are subtext, but to me they were very apparent when I read it.
I never read The Scarlet Letter nor Moby Dick until after I was forty. I am sooo glad I read them at mid life. They are both astonishing.
If you haven’t read them, treat yourself. They are revelatory.
I haven’t read either but have been curious. I have a copy of Moby Dick so maybe someday. I feel like I would be much more likely to get to The Scarlet Letter first.
@@SupposedlyFun When I read The Scarlet Letter, I kept flipping back to the original publication date. I couldn’t believe it. It seemed so MODERN.
And I read somewhere, I think, that Moby Dick was “a happy book.”🤷🏻♀️
I did like the moments of aliveness and pure joy that I found in it. Like when the whales are described as playing “kitten-like,” or when whaling ships find each other and spend time socializing.
And the “Lee Shore” chapter never ceases to fascinate …
Now I’m tempted to throw all my other reading aside and run back to those! Lol
@@bookgirlny8511 It's always great to discover an older book that still feels like it could have been published today.
This was great. Your discussion of Gatsby and pointing our how it, and most other novels in consideration for the title, actually subvert the idea of America's greatness and/or destroy American myths was great. As you point out defining The Great American novel is fairly exclusionary. So many genre's and groups are automatically eliminated in the minds of most people because unfortunately until recently we, as a society, have used straight whiteness as the default (we still do) so that it a book doesn't represent the straight white experience we disqualify it from consideration for the title.
Great discussion of _Lonesome Dove_ and its myth busting themes.
Thank you! It's been a very interesting topic to think about and I look forward to thinking about it more in the future. Realizing that so many books people point to as the Great American Novel are actually subversive was definitely a 🤯 moment for me.
What about Steinbeck? I am starting to read East of Eden, I was expecting it to be mentioned here :D
Great discussion on the concept of the Great American Novel!
Thank you! I haven’t read East of Eden yet but it feels like it would deserve a slot.
@@SupposedlyFun Thank you, I love your reviews.
@@marijamartinovic4404 Thanks!
I just finished Lonesome Dove…INCREDIBLE!!
It really is a fantastic book.
Great list of which I have only read three. I will correct that. Also, you gave a very good explanation of the US. I do like Great Gatsby but you raised good questions about the lack of Native Americans and Immigrants stories on the usual lists. Based on what you have said I feel it would be impossible to pick one book to represent america. If I had to choose it would be The People's History...I know, it's non-fic. :>(
TY for recommending Interpreter of Maladies. I enjoyed that collection and am also in the middle of Agatha and the Little Neon which I like so much. I would not have found Agatha on my own so very grateful. My first read of James Baldwin was just a week ago, Giovanni's Room and it was heartbreaking.
I'm so glad you've been enjoying Interpreter of Maladies, Agatha of Little Neon, and James Baldwin! I really hope more people discover Agatha of Little Neon. It's a gem of a novel.
Well said. I really appreciated your closing statement it was something I wish I could articulate as well as you. It seems the unstated criteria for the GAN is an old popular book that continues to be popular. There are so many books and books you never read let alone see and ever get to be popular I think there’s really no such thing as a GAN
I didn't talk about it in the video because it's something I've only been thinking about since this posted, but it's interesting that most other countries aren't so concerned with defining their best under this kind of branding.
This is a really thoughtful assessment. I agree with your "start list" although I would throw Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in because I think it gets underrated by being perpetually trapped in high school English classes. I feel like The Great American Novel could be a fantastic year long reading challenge to explore the mainstays, the overlooked and the newcomers.
That would indeed be a fascinating reading challenge. I think a subconscious motive for my Pulitzer Project was to do something along those lines--especially since I want to look at what was overlooked in addition to what won.
I'm so glad I didn't scroll past this video, as I was going to do. "Great American Novel"?! 🙄 It will be saved for the future as one of the best videos I've seen on Booktube. Thanks for confirming part of my tbr for the rest of 2022. Lonesome Dove WAS on it last month but the Booktube Prize took precedence. What a beautiful back yard!
Wow, thank you so much! That means a lot. I will say that a lot of the things I talk about with Lonesome Dove are subtext: McMurtry doesn't make the arguments out loud, which some people have taken issue with, but the subversive meaning is definitely there and was very apparent to me.
Do I Agree...?
HELLA YESSSS!!! 💯💯💯👍👍👌
Nicely done...brilliantly articulated...so refreshing to have such a comprehensive perspective on "Theee American Dream". I mean, America as a country of Entrepreneurs has always fascinated me. I have fallen head over heels for many celebrities there, Roxane Gay, Debbie Millman, AOC...to name a few! Yet since I learnt at school that Native Americans are still called Indians, it's kinda left a sour taste. But now, ofc, looking on a global scale here, from India, a lot is happening there and it seems a real dialogue between...what was and what will be, which needs soooo much more comprehension than what a lot of politicians are allowing for!!! Hope it gets better for marginalized and minority communities there, a very interesting investigation in this video. So happy to watch it and totally gonna read your listing ASAP. Beloved is sooooo getting Read soon!!!! With others ofc...in time! My TBR is only getting brutal, every passing day...Woah!!!
Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed this discussion. I definitely find it fascinating and I'm glad others do as well. I hope things get better for marginalized communities, too. And my TBR is also feeling brutal--and growing all the time!
I think "New York: The Novel" by Edward Rutherford could be a contender for the list as well. I LOVED this book and I'm not even a huge fan of Historical Fiction. Instead of writing my own essay about what the book is about, here's a brief/overall "snip" from - sorry, I know you hate amazon but it's the best "nutshell" description I could find:
"Edward Rutherfurd celebrates America’s greatest city in a rich, engrossing saga, weaving together tales of families rich and poor, native-born and immigrant-a cast of fictional and true characters whose fates rise and fall and rise again with the city’s fortunes. From this intimate perspective we see New York’s humble beginnings as a tiny Indian fishing village, the arrival of Dutch and British merchants, the Revolutionary War, the emergence of the city as a great trading and financial center, the convulsions of the Civil War, the excesses of the Gilded Age, the explosion of immigration in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the trials of World War II, the near demise of New York in the 1970s and its roaring rebirth in the 1990s, and the attack on the World Trade Center. A stirring mix of battle, romance, family struggles, and personal triumphs, New York: The Novel gloriously captures the search for freedom and opportunity at the heart of our nation’s history."
Also, I KNEW you'd be talking about "Lonesome Dove" at some point, LOL. That's obviously a favorite of mine as well. And since you mentioned the role of women in that one, specifically the part about Lorena's arc (the whore, or "sporting woman" as she's called quite often throughout the novel), and I know you don't plan on reading the other Lonesome Dove books, so I don't think this is a true Spoiler, her arc blossoms in those -- she actually marries Pea-Eye and becomes a school teacher!
Great video! ...and I'm loving the back yard/outside back-drop!
I've heard great things about Rutherford (and New York in particular) but haven't tried him yet. I'll have to try to fix that. Thank you for the blurb! And that's good to know about Lorena's story arc--I'm glad she finds happiness and peace in the later novels! Thank you for telling me. I did like the final product after filming in the backyard (I was very concerned about noise/sound quality), so I will have to do it again!
Well, you've persuaded me to buy Lonesome Dove - and it seems I must also look more closely at Louise Erdrich (I read The Beet Queen decades ago, but that's it)...
Beet Queen is one of the Erdrich books I haven't read. I hope you like Lonesome Dove if you get to it!
@@SupposedlyFun I do actually own The Plague of Doves, thanks to another of your videos!
@@tjpieraccini Definitely a good one!
Personally Blood Meridian is *THE* Great American Novel. No question. Another contender in my humble opinion is Moby Dick. What do you guys think?!
Not an American but I think we should all fall behind The Love Songs of W.E.B. Du Bois as the GAN because even if it’s not it should be. Criminally ignored by literary prizes means we should trumpet it all the more. Nuff said!
I thought about including Love Songs but didn't since I still haven't finished it yet. I really look forward to diving back in.
I read Willa Cather's Death of the Archbishop last year and I'm keen to read more of her's. I immediately thought of this one when this video came up on my feed.
Interesting that you mention Mark Twain and Louisa May Alcott's Little Women, I read both as a kid and I think they are so distant in my memory which is why I don't think of them much. I also read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith as a child and that is one that I'd consider as well.
James Michener's novels are epic and when I read his "Centennial" as a young teen in the late 70s-early 80s it was the first time I'd heard about the Indian massacres (Sand Creek Massacre) and seen Indians written as anything but the bad guys. It started me thinking about my own Australian history and our treatment of indigenous Australians.
Roots by Alex Haley was a really powerful book, when I read it in the late 80s too. I think that book has really woven into my understanding of the USA.
The Other Americans (2019) is a mystery novel written by Moroccan American novelist Laila Lalami, is another one that's stayed with me, I think it's been a couple of years since I read it.
The best you can do is make a list.
The Great Gatsby I think will always be (a) top contender for me. As it fits the disillusionment and hope and humanness and one the books I relate to most despite not being American. I always find things like the Civil War alienating as a Canadian and the inherent racism involved. But also I am not American so my opinion is outside of the realm. It does make me curious to look at what is the great Canadian list
Civil War literature is a MINEFIELD. So much of it is problematic or downright racist, or does too much to try to minimize what was bad about it. And so much of it also tries to glorify the conflict as heroic.
I would be very curious to hear what you think would be on the list for Canada!
I'm with you! I think putting together a collection of The Great American Novels would be the way to go! This way, you get a wide range of perspectives. Just lock a diverse board of literary scholars in a room and don't let them come out until they've compiled a comprehensive list. And then, when a new book comes around that's deemed "worthy" of being included in said collection, you just add it to the list!
I would throw Imagine Me Gone by Adam Haslett in the ring of possibilities, but I'm not a scholar so... 🤷🏻♂️ lol.
I'm not a scholar either so 🤗
I have never liked the Great Gatsby, although I know many people would name it the Great American Novel. Thanks for your perspectives as always. I read an interesting book called When Books Went to War, which discusses a special publishing system during WWII, which produced many novels in a pocket sized format,
so that soldiers could carry them easily. Many Gatsbys were likely published in that program
That book probably discusses the exact program that made Great Gatsby a late success! How interesting.
As an outside looking in on America - I think the key elements to the Great American Novel are grounded in movement, both physical and ideological. America is a capitalist nation, and that idea of movement is essential to progress, and all the harms that it causes. Many of the Great American Novel are about physical movement across the nation (McCarthy, Twain etc.) or ideological movement (Baldwin, Morrison). So for me, if you had to name one, and as you point out there really can’t be one, for me, it is Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck.
What a novel!!
Great video! Thank you. Top 2 for me are “The Great Gatsby” and “American Pastoral.” I think they both capture a country mythologizing itself. As Michiko Kakutani eloquently stated in her review of “American Pastoral”: “Mr. Roth has chronicled the rise and fall of one man’s fortunes and in doing so created a resonant parable of American innocence and disillusion.”
I've read three books by Philip Roth but haven't gotten to American Pastoral yet. It's on my list! Thanks for the feedback.
I’ve seen both Invisible Man and Their Eyes Were Watching God included in discussions about The Great American Novel. And I think they’re both deserving of that title. I read both in school and they’re both great.
What about The Joy Luck Club for an Asian perspective?
I mentioned it in the video but I haven't read it yet. I hope to do it this year--Joel read it in January or February and loved it. I've only seen the movie.
Oops I missed JLC in the video.
@@loriroemer1122 No worries--I talked about a lot of books quickly.
Fantastic video! I agree that there is no single Great American Novel. I think your list is excellent. Nella Larsen’s Passing would be a worthy addition.
It feels to me like the list is missing more recent titles. Just as America evolves, so should what is considered the Great American Novel. It can’t be based solely on static ideals of the past or we get caught in the trap of the people today who want the country to go backwards to some perfect era. Issues like homelessness, mental health, judicial/political overreach, violence, addiction, gentrification, redefinition of the middle class, disability, and nationalism all have their places in modern America. I wish I were well read enough to put novels to each of those categories, but I’m not, particularly in American writing. (And I’m American.) Maybe there aren’t great novels about these issues yet. I guess my point is that the Great American Novel is definitely a group of novels and it needs to grow to reflect changes in our society.
Really, really thought-provoking video, Greg. I loved it. I will put your list on my TBR (although the length of Lonesome Dove makes it an unlikely read for me).
I struggle with how to add new titles to the list because it's so hard to know which ones will still be relevant down the road. Someone else mentioned Jesmyn Ward in another comment and I feel like she has a very good chance.
@@SupposedlyFun I think I have all of her books, if not, I’ve got three, but I haven’t read any of them yet. Insert guilty emoji.
After reading The Trees, I would say Percival Everett has a very good chance to be on this list at some point.
And I’ve just remembered Colson Whitehead’s The Nickel Boys (duh), which I think hits all the criteria for a great American novel.
@@mradcaqbdb Part of me wonders if Colson Whitehead is going to be a victim of his own success, but he does have a good chance at staying power. Everett could do it as well.
A lot of worthy candidates, but the three that loom over the pack, IMO, are (in no particular order) are The Great Gatsby, Huckleberry Finn, and Moby Dick.
Hi Greg, I noticed there was a review of a book in The Sydney Morning Herald called “The Wrath to Come: Gone with the Wind and the Lies America Tells
Sarah Churchwell
Head of Zeus, $39.99
It looks at the racism of Gone With the Wind and how it applies in the last horrible president’s America
- Peter
Gloria Naylor: The women of Brewster Place. Ceremony by Leslie Silko. Showcases what the American dream does to some folks.
I'm aiming to read The Women of Brewster Place this year. I've been looking forward to it for a while.
i thought i voted on that poll for louise erdrich's 'the last report on the miracles at little no horse" if not here's my belated vote for my great american novel.
I think you did but there was a lack of consensus for which of Erdrich's books should get the title. She definitely came up a couple of times.
The great American novel is one word... NOSTALGIA. It is not a singular novel. It is not the entirety of the country. It is merely a story that gives a snapshot of the authentic or average American history experience. I like that you shout out diversity. But i don't like how you politicize awards. The best story should be chosen. Not a story that's good enough to win and is written by a minority. The BEST. As for an American novel. It cant be just one. I think even a racist novel like gone with the wind should be considered a great American novel. lonesome dove is a good one too.
there can't be a Great American Novel. because it is all of those and many more to come. for NA authors: There, There by Tommy Orange, and will someone please read /talk about The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven by Sherman Alexie !! one of my all time faves. in my top 5.
I considered mentioning Sherman Alexie but I've only read one of his books (not the one you mentioned) and given the controversy around him in recent years, I decided to leave him off the list. I do want to read Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven someday, though. There There is a great book.
@@SupposedlyFun I also love Sherman Alexie’s books, but I never mention him online because I know he admitted to sexual harassment of several women. I also love Richard Ford’s writing only to find out that he spat (wtf?!) on Colson Whitehead and remains unrepentant, which confirms it did happen. Have you ever had one of your favorite authors exposed as a not-so-stellar human being? I would love to see your take on this topic in a future video.
@@athertonca I didn't know that about Richard Ford! WtF?! I have definitely had it happen to me. In the past, I've talked about choosing not to discuss JK Rowling or Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie on my channel anymore. Those are probably the biggest examples.
You're backyard is beautiful! There is no one GAN, just like there isn't one for any other country. If I had to vote, I'd say Call It Sleep. It's the best immigrant novel. Also, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.
Thank you! The backyard is all Joel's doing. I wish I could take credit. I'll have to look up Call It Sleep! Thanks for the recommendation.
This video is a decent encapsulation of the state of modern American literary criticism. SPOILER ALERT: It’s unoriginal, intensely (and overly) focused on issues of “social justice”, and just generally not great.
SPOILER ALERT: 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
The great american novel discussion is similar to the “goat” discussions. Time is a variable that cant be solved until its over…so what the hell does it matter 😂.
The novelists and film makers of the land here, often considered “great”- it’s best to recognize, a fundamental flaw in their workings. They decided, vocationally, to work and build on the concept of an “America”, conceptually a great nation; perhaps better than all others. They decided to strengthen confidence and belief on a basically flawed concept; make surrogate medicine. The famous actors, depicting “American” heroes; American perfect rectitude in dealings with all other peoples. This is all very much Propaganda, for a false Revolution, the American. For this, all of these, who might have been vocationally successful, were consigned to Punishment, in the Afterlife. They could magically evoke, often, a story which people find engrossing; it is only surrogate medicine, which like synthetic, is of Forbidden. Again and again, and again, I stress that the only solution is to accept a Doctrine, modified from the popular ignorance one, that there never was an “America” portended from Foredesign. There is no Race called by the Name American, the word of Deception means “Not Race” or Race Apostate; became of Forbidden, with that old Aquarius; you cannot have a new Race, American, neither a New World called America. It means subtly, We kill and will kill for a Land Stake we’ve made here, poor people in need of money. All talk, in a former religion, about a False Prophet, refers specifically to the American President, indirectly to the Revolution. He could bring about the destruction of the entire civilisation, being able to “make fire fall from Heaven”. Phony President of a Not-Race people, who generally believe in the lie, “American”. The only solution is to receive the Explanation, that the Over Sign of the land here became or is fully Celtic; best to Name it is Nova Scotia or Alba Nuadhl; that all are deceived through an English Race concept, from English Vampirism, no one having even English ancestors. All who sought to Build and develop on an America concept were sent to a Punishment; the Revolutionaries, eternally of Perdition. A typical Miasm, involving very incredibly low vitality, energy, renewal and Spirit, can only be improved if the Land is made a Race Land; through changing language to Scottish Gaelic, and the Land’s Name to Nova Scotia, this could be made a Race Land. The race must have Restoration, in what was lost through the Pirate Land Grab, American Revolution; more anciently, through Anglicisation. Restoration, Celtic Redemption or Gospel, these are all meaningful, in this context. Forsake Not-Race existence, find a true Race Channel, Blessing, Energy; stop being of a phony concept and apostasy, American…
No contest. Huckleberry Finn. The greatest novel with a really bad ending.
The American Novel that has had the biggest impact on me was Ohio by Stephen Markley. It didn’t win any big prizes but I think it’s great. If there is a great American dream then there also has to be a great American nightmare.
It's an incredible novel, and I plan to read it again. Glad to know someone else loved it as much as I did.
I've been wanting to read Ohio for a while now. I'll have to try to do it soon.
In my opinion the ONLY book I would consider giving this title is Beloved.
That is a very valid opinion. I think that and Lonesome Dove are the two strongest contenders and Beloved is a much sharper critique that is ultimately more crucial. So I could be persuaded to your thinking that Beloved is the only real candidate.
I think the reason why mostly white authors are in the conversation about having written the Great American Novel is because the need for such a novel comes from a feeling of cultural and/or historical insecurity towards Europe. White Americans feel the need to have a Great American Novel to match Middlemarch, Don Quijote etc. It's also why Americans have these hall of fames for everything: to make up for a lack of history in a way. Of course America has just as much history as Europe or any other place for that matter but White America does not. White Americans feel insecure because their culture did not have as much time to create things like the Great American Novel but because of American Exceptionalism they feel like there should be one, so they kind of force it into existence.
But it is interesting that it seems to have changed a little over time as Black Americans and Americans of Color who are not as invested in not falling short of matching Europe in that regard, have become more likely to be considered potential authors of the Great American Novel.
Also, the idea of America being permanent seems to be inherent to setting out to write the Great American Novel as people like Philip Roth did. Most other regions of the world have made the experience that countries or nations fall apart. Why write the Great Yugoslavian Novel when it's not going to be around forever. Tying your novel to a non permanent entity like that is weird to a lot of people elsewhere and probably why authors in other countries don't set out to do it in the way American writers do.
I definitely agree that the quest for the Great American Novel came from a desire to legitimize America as an artistic, cultural, and governmental authority in the world. And the reversal in the present day where it turns out that the people best equipped to tell the story of this country are the ones who have experienced the worst of it really is fascinating.