ASX Podcast: The Expanse authors Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck (spoilers!)
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- Alt Shift X interviews the authors of The Expanse, Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck -- discussing The Expanse Season 6, Book 9 Leviathan Falls, sci fi, writing, storytelling.
The first half has spoilers up to Season 6 / Book 6. The second half (after 53:24) has spoilers up to Book 9.
0:00 Intro
0:47 Season 6 show vs book
10:12 Tribes
15:24 Bobbie & Amos
18:03 Drummer & Naomi
21:00 Representation
27:36 Actors vs characters
30:12 Monoliths, Star Wars
38:45 Minotaur
41:53 Alex's other child, Chekov's gun
47:01 Mars, megaprojects, space travel
53:24 ❗ Book 7 spoilers from here!
55:13 More Expanse, Clarissa
57:40 Strange dogs
59:12 ❗ Book 9 spoilers from here! Holden, change
1:04:26 Tanaka, 1984
1:10:32 Writing alien dreams, collaboration
1:18:08 Aliens, ambiguity, Duarte, life
1:28:10 Unity, hive minds, difference
1:35:00 ❗ Dune spoilers for Book 2 and Book 4!
1:38:10 Dune spoilers end, influences
1:39:45 Firefly, influences
1:42:34 New sci fi trilogy
1:47:00 Expanse Telltale game, video games
1:48:41 Daniel's genre rant
1:52:15 Covid and stories
1:55:52 Roci set lives?
1:59:31 Legacy of The Expanse
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What a wonderful, thoughtful conversation. Thanks, all three of you.
Dan's comment on Amos: "He's not looking for the long term, which is ironic really". Hilarious.
Last man standing gang represent
@@robstock ruclips.net/video/H8oAzO0H198/видео.html
"Duarte's attempt to defeat the aliens with facts and logic". Lmao, good one Alt
I've watched every Alt Shift X video on the Expanse seemingly drip-feeding the content into my unconsciousness. Then I just finished the series at the right time. One binge straight through. I watched all of of the Ty and That Guy podcasts to great enjoyment. Now I find this interview and cannot exclaim how good it makes me feel.
19 comments wtf. This is possibly the best episode of a podcast I've ever heard. Like sure I'm biased by the fact that the last season of the show just ended and the last book just released and we get to listen to 2 hours of these 3 great personalities talk about it all, but seriously this was incredible. I wanna repeat a podcast...? That's never happened before. Keep it up Alt, and thanks for asking top notch questions.
Loved this interview! These guys think SO DEEPLY about why they write the way they write. A true partnership in the best sense of the word.
Great interview. Thank you so much for doing this.
Also has to be fun for the two of them, to get questions from someone that is also deep into the material.
what a delight, as usual. I'm very happy you got to interact with them so much, nobody deserves it more than our meticulous and talented Shifty!
Amazing interview! Loved being able to hear Ty and Daniel go into such detail about the books, only wish it could be longer!
What an awesome interview. Actually the Expanse help me dealing with my depression after a really hard breakup from a relationship that lasted for years. Don't know if it was a healthy help, since I watched the whole series from start to finish about 6-8 times, watched 99% of Ty & That Guy episodes, listened to the Expanse audio books (i'm on the second run currently), and watched about two thirds of all RUclips video reactions to The Expanse as well, though it was a lot of fun. I feel it helped me keep in a good mood, and it was a great ride (still is), and I improved my English as well, as it isn't my native language. So thanks to Ty and Daniel, thanks to all participants of the show, and thank you guys for this amazing podcast.
This interview was a unique look at how Dan's and Ty's personal philosophies and world views are crystallized in the books and show. Fantastic interview
It's so great hearing an interview where the person asking the questions clearly loves and understands the source material. I thought your questions were so insightful and well thought-out, which led to really getting the best out of the authors. Every single one of the key themes I noticed when reading (listening) and watching were brought up. This kind of discussion is exactly why I love The Expanse so much.
Absolutely loved The Dreamer chapters, and it was so rewarding hearing them discussed this way. I thought they were an amazing choice and I can't really imagine them being done any differently. Besides ee cummings, they also reminded me of another of my favourite books, House of Leaves, which employs similar literary styles, but in the horror genre. If you haven't read it I think it would make for a fantastic series of videos. Of course, that being said, I am also intensely curious about the history of the Romans and the Goths!
I think the show is cast nearly perfectly, the only one I think was a miss was Duarte, I had pictured him VERY differently from how the actor portrayed him. I feel like Duarte should be inherently likeable and inspiring, despite his dark intentions. I just felt like the actor lacked his charisma and sheer presence, but I suppose that's incredibly hard to cast for.
My fingers will remain crossed for a movie (trilogy) for the final book trilogy...
Another awesome interview! I've learned a lot listening to you three chat.
You're awesome dude. Thank you for such a great interview.
Fantastic conversation with fantastic writers of a fantastic series on a fantastic podcast channel.
Thanks for a wonderful interview.
I agree that season 6 did what needed to be done but I would have loved to see the Anna, Prax and Daws storylines. What a shame.
What a wonderful interview! Thank you so much.
Thanks for this. I enjoyed every minute of this awesome talk.
1:52:05 I believe the word you're looking for is "setting". Sci Fi is a setting in which any genre can happen
To Whom It May Concern:
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!
Looking forward for their new books ☺️
Thanks for making this Mr. X Podcast! It was a really good interview. I was wondering, how did you first meet these guys? It seems crazy to me
I enjoyed every second of this.
This was great, thanks for doing it.
How did I not find this podcast earlier, so good!!
very nice interview... got to be the cathedrale of Cologne in germany. it was startet some 12xx, paused in 15xx something and not finished until 1880.
This is a freaking fascinating conversation.
thank you for this interview
From "Leaf by Niggle', JRR Tolkien "'You could go on and on, and have a whole country in a garden, or in a picture (if you preferred to call it that). You could go on and on, but not perhaps for ever. There were the Mountains in the background. They did get nearer, very slowly. They did not seem to belong to the picture, or only as a link to something else, a glimpse through the trees of something different, a further stage: another picture.'" - as a reaction, I once wrote: It struck me that this is what he does with characters like Tom Bombadil, Beorn, or Ghân-buri-Ghân. He provides a glimpse to another picture. I think it makes the world of Middle-earth seem all that much more real. Any world that I could encompass in whole could not possibly be real.
That's what all those moments are in The Expanse that makes some fans clamor for more. They are glimpses into another picture. And if we were to get it all, it wouldn't seem as real. We are confronted daily, hourly with things that we observe and can wonder about, but never know. That's the real world and a world that seems real.
I've personally put Daniel and Ty's writing right up there with my favorite author, JRRT. When I read Tolkien, I often stop and read passages out loud to anyone who happens to be near. I did the same with The Expanse. Little gems of passages that were too shiny to not share.
The Roci will always live on in virtual space 🚀
AltSX, you're a blessing for us all with your kind intelligence as a rare critical being that makes our real and fictional universe so much greater! Thank you for your generosity and deep analysis 😘🖖 (and you're the only reason I survived the GoT ending 🥴)
I love their books so much!! Please please please keep writing!
1:47:34 I was reeeeeeeeally hoping they're directly involved in writing the Telltale game. Telltale does not have what it takes to handle a story in The Expanse universe. Telltale can't write. They got lucky with the first TWD and TWAU was serviceable, but their writing track record is really bad. I don't think it's going to be good :/
HOW is it that i've only just found this? Amazing.
Great interview, great series.
I've read all the novels & novellas as well as watched the series (more than once from beginning to end) Recently I had started re-reading the books to refresh my mind on what had happened in them vs on the show & was kind of shocked while reading Caliban's War to find out that the ending & epilogue of Leviathan Falls are pretty much given away in a Holden chapter. I was only a few chapters into Caliban's before I got Leviathan Falls & very greedily read it in a day, staying up all night to do so. Then I went back to Caliban's War so it was pretty fresh. Talk about sneaky. Now I'm wondering how many other obvious in hindsight breadcrumbs there are & am looking even more forward to revisiting the rest of the books. Can't say the destruction of the rings was a surprise but it was one hell of a journey.
Life doesn't end neatly does it? That is what makes The Expanse so special, it tries to approximate what would really happen. We would try to blow things up (like Duarte) and we would not understand an alien mind or language or intent. Also, I found Holden in the books to be very funny!! (When the Roci and Razorback save Naomi in S5, Holden tells Fred's crew member "you may now have all my stuff" and the crew member says "even the coffee machine?" and Holden replies "almost all my stuff". He is a very funny character. (I am paraphrasing without checking so don't get upset with me!!)
Thanks for this
That was an amazing in depth interview. The virus analogy to the evolution of builders into the PM blew me away, which brings up a question, does the PM have consciousness awarneness
Great interview 👍👍
34:53 read Expanded Universe for "good Imperials".
Also "the Duel of the Fates" version of Episode 9 was going to have Stormtroopers rebel against First Order.
Idk where they heard that story about the generation ships but in the video game elite dangerous they have stories similar to that with generation ships still flying to stars that humanity can jump too in an instant
I hope that goes on Ty Franck's tombstone: ".. As long as I get half!"
I really concur with your point about killing millions just for entertainment so we can clap. Recently I was part of a workplace accident where a worker lost his life to his injuries and it's changed how I view entertainment and how easily Hollywood and film make it to kill someone, and watch them die in front of you and live with killing people even when it comes down to fist fights how easy it is to throw a punch and recover when hitting in other people.
Ty could be thinking of The Sagrada Familia in Barcelona? Decidedly NOT medieval, but it is taking generations to build.
They should adapt the last 3 books into audible original audio dramas like they did with alien and have all the original cast members reprise their roles through voice acting with vfx effects thrown in. It's a good compromise for people like me who don't want to wait for a movie series or reboot tv series that may never happen.
Now that Daniel and Ty are finished their series, and have shown they are good at smashing out books, perhaps they can go help their buddy George finish his series.
They managed to release nine novels of Game of Thrones in Space plus all the short stories in the time since George released his last book in the series.
Great interview as always. But an observation: was Daniel conducting a coca cola test in the background? Bottle vs Can?
I think it was sparkling water.
Great podcast
Would have still loved more on the ring entities tho
The editing was great on this, was listening through after reading the first 10 chapters Tiamat and you saved me with your repeated spoiler warning, tho I could tell where it was going from the first Teresa chapter. But the structure of the podcast was great, you should stick with the same editing if you do any future interviews with other authors. Cheers thanks Ty and Dan, for the great series, it’s a fantastic advertisement for your game
These guys are everything I strive to be as an amateur writer. I cannot wait for their next book.
Oh I thought this was the last one! Glad they will continue
Thanks for interview ! builders/romans is very interesting concept including theyr biology "story" /evolution etc. and that they are totally different "thing"/ life form. Have an idea, so we are fast life, and we created "ardo diamond" - internet, linking directly to it via technology we will become leviathan :D anyway thx for podcast.
People mention how Shift and Schwift have never been seen in the same room together. That's not because they're the same person. It's because Shift leaves the room when Schwift enters out of deferrential respect.
If I could ask just one question to the authors, it would be to describe the villain of the deleted book trilogy! I gots to know what they had in mind
La Sagrada Familia, a basilica in Barcelona, started construction in 1882 and hasn't been finished yet. Construction is supposed to end in 2026. It's architect, Antoni Gaudí, died in 1926 as he was run down by a street car. He was buried in the basilica. Multiple architects have taken the job after.
That's a more recent story of a mega project that the original creator didn't get to ever see. But that happened a lot in earlier times.
Great interview with James S.A. Corey aka Ty and Daniel. One question I wished you asked, is will other writers be allowed the books within the Expanse universe?
They better make season 7 or else.
I agree that Naomi not knowing about her son surviving is better storytelling, I just wish this fictional character was able to know she didn't lose her son. Totally irrational, still I cant help to feel sad about that.
Tenaka is not really a new character in book 9. She was first introduced as the security officer under Singh in book 7.
I don't think it's the same person.
"A soldier without a political education is just a potential criminal"
-Thomas Sankara
I missread "Tanaka" and shat my pants.
Anyone have a link to the Reddit post discussing the dreamer interludes?
1:51:17 The Foundation trilogy and Ice Planet Barbarians are both sci-fi
I 1:33:23 I think most of us are still surprised at evil, even though we shouldn’t be, because to have made it to adulthood we‘ve must have encountered a certain degree of nurturing and selflessness in others, at the very least in the first 3-5 years of our lives, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. So it is a self-selecting process, - to be an adult is to have been a helpless creature that was nurtured by somebody. This inevitably must skew our view of humans.
The ones who did not encounter a certain minimum of selflessness and kindness in others, they have not survived, they are not among us to shape society.
At the same time, there will always be the obligatory 5-20% of any population whose experience of nurturing was, while still sufficient, still so inadequate that they will split off completely the memory of having been a helpless creature dependent on nurturing - and those people will perpetuate the cycle of violence.
And the degree to which this population is rather common or uncommon in any one society does determine the level of sociological pathology. So it always comes down to the degree of intergenerational trauma.
"We are a STUPID species!", couldn't agree more Dan, couldn't agree more. But then again, what do you accept from an ape that's a chromosome removed from a chimpanzee? Great interview, always love to hear from the Dynamic Duo.
The builders are like the cpmbine from Half Life
I was hoping to see your face 👀
Could you just let Ty know that a VR computer is just a computer...lol
How tf would we negotiate woth the goths or protomolecule when the whole story is how humanity keeps warring and cant negotiate with itself.
5:01 this is great to explain to silly ppl that bitch and complain about films not being 100% book accurate. Here the authors are also script writers and it makes it more credible to ignorant ppl why these changes are justified.
Money isn't infinite, actors have to be in two series from the same company but on different continents, some actors are better than others and that's more important for viewer retention.
Fantastic conversation. I had to skip some, since I'm just starting the 6th book (after finishing the show). That being said, I thank that Ty is the more media-savy one, he's way more likeable as the eloquent geek he is. Daniel has this smug attitude that doesn't quite land well with me (not that he would care, of course).
Surrender ends all conflict, gentlemen.
Surrender is not an option if you support freedom.
I think the european cathedral they talk about is the Sagrada Família en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagrada_Fam%C3%ADlia
My thoughts on Leviathan falls
The ninth and final book of the Expense series
I poured the thoughts I had while listening to the book. Sorry it's all jumbled up.
*Spoilers**Spoilers**Spoilers**Spoilers*
Bottom line, i thought this was the best book of the series. I was captured by it.
First half of the book i felt it was moving to fast, but it still totally delivered.
The premise of the ring space is highly influenced, i think, by Frederik Pohl's Heechee saga, specifically "Gateway"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_(novel)
So i was kinda thinking that it will end similarly: *spoilers to "gatway"* the humans meat the ancient aliens, and they work together to defeat the enemy.
So the conclusion that "we can't win, and need to shut this down" was kinda surprising and refreshing. And also i guess sort of "realistic".
Duarte's path of enforcing his will on everybody else is very consistent with his personality and methods. He knew better for everyone as a state leader, so he knows better than everybody as a hive minded god.
He can never give up the mobility the rings provide, so he must resist and fight the dark enemy.
I did think that the consensus in witch everybody excepted that Duarte's plan needs to be stopped, was a little rushed. There was room for discussion there.
Minor issues I have with the mechanics of the hive mind: if Holden could withdraw and annex other human minds at will, why not Duarte? Maybe Duarte just doesn't see any value in free will? That's consistent with his tyrannical personality. But Holden could have put in place a sistem where volunteers rotate to the ring space to willingly joine the hive mind, reinforce the effort to fight the dark enemy, and then be replaced, I guess... Just saying. Naomi could have calculated the amount of "mindpower" needed for sufficient resistance.
At one point I thought maybe Holden will switch places with Amos, because he is so OP that maybe he can defeat the dark enemy.
But actually the resolution of closing up the gap in space, and stop "cheating" at the game of physics and evolution, is appropriate.
I also thought that a major advantage that the hive mind presented was the ability to share all the knowledge of humanity with everyone instantaneously, kind of like downloading using a vehicle or doing martial arts from the matrix.
And that reminded me also of the Weirwood net in ASOIAF.
So seeing Duarte in the middle of the "net" reminded me a great deal of Bloodraven. Very similar iconography of a formerly great and powerful man, now atrophied and semi conscious in a mesh of external "tissue" inhabiting his body and expanding his consciousness.
Also I thought that the hive mind might enable a sort of cognitive immortality, that someone who's consciousness is inserted into the hive mind, keeps on "existing" even if his body is destroyed. In that way there is an additive value of each new member, and the sum of "human" knowledge keeps on growing, and nothing is lost. That is the mechanism in the fourth book *spoilers* of the Heechee saga, where everyone that is about to die uploads their consciousness to a digital plane, where they continue to exist individually in a digital reality that can interact with the physical realm. This was written before the Internet... A well established assumption is that the Werywood net (ASOIAF) operates similarly.
Moving on
Naomi is completely unprepared and incompatible for the role of the leader of the resistance. She has an excellent technical mind, but she is not an administrator.
When the gang decides to drop Teresa at New Egypt, I was like "what!? Your dumping your most valuable bargaining chip? Have you never seen Game of Thrones?!!!"
I also thought Naomi would become aware of Philip, if the hive mind kept spreading.
Tanaka is a very engaging character.
In the beginning of the book, she is in "hunter mode" and reminded me very much of Frederick Forsyth's "Avenger": preparing and learning her pray.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenger_(Forsyth_novel)
Side note, if the Laconian's knew about that magic healing pool the drones use, that she finds, maybe they could try dipping Duarte in it when he was incapacitated? Worth a shot.
After the defeat at New Egypt, she shifts in to something a little (or a lot) psychotic, and later i thought of the implication of introducing a diseased mind to the hive mind. And again that reminded me of Frederik Pohl's Heechee saga, where *spoilers* in the second book a terrorist group is using alien technology to transmit a psychotic mind to all the minds in the world, to overwhelm them.
Tanaka becomes a little (or a lot) obsessed on her 'pray', the chase, and vengeance. At that part she reminded me a lot of the main villain in the movie "No Country for Old Men" by the Coen brothers, where a *spoilers* hit man is on a trail to recover a misplaced treasure of cash, and starts rampaging and killing everyone involved.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Country_for_Old_Men_(film)
Tanaka has the best line in the book:
"...a small, round-faced man with an unfortunate beard..." (Chapter 34)
Made me laugh out loud.
When Tanaka starts hording all the medicine to resist being annexed by the hive mind, i thought she wanted it for herself. Later, when she distributes it to other people, even her enemies, she comes off as a competent and fast thinking tactician.
Throughout the book I felt Holden was useless. He didn't do anything (except shooting Tanaka in the face). The first time he does something is when he injected the Protomolecule.
His ending was fitting and sort of Jesusy: Sacrificing himself for the greater good.
When Alex wakes up to the sound of violence (chapter 35), i thought Teresa was shooting everyone for wanting to kill her father, but then, when it was made appernt that it was Cara going through withdrawal, I was completely side blinded, and thought that was a very clever conclusion of her story.
When Kit starts to go Dutchman I was so sad for Alex, and i thought that it is fitting that someone we know "pay the price". So when he was saved, I felt cheated by the story. Later when it was explained that Duarte was behind it, and introduced his new abilities it was kind of a good plot point, but still...
When Alex makes his way to the Nieuwestad system ring, I feared for his life, I was listening on edge, cuz I was like: if GRRM was writing this, he would have killed Alex for sure...
When the Laconian's threaten to kill all of Freehold system, i thought that was very hippocritic of them, and not in character, seeing how they executed Singh for wanting to exact collective punishment on Medina station. Then again, the rebels didn't have the Gathering Storm, and the construction platforms were not destroyed back then, so maybe there was a policy change.
Probably Laconia was one of the systems were humanity endured after the closing of the rings, seeing how they were self sufficient for some thirty years or so, befor Persepolis Rising. Maybe during the millennia of separation, they figured out how to use the repair drones and every one there are immortal Amoses.
On a similar note, Sol system has a live Protomolecule sample on bord the Falcon.
Some may think that it was rendered useless when the ring space was shut down, but i think it still has potency, seeing how Amos endured for another thousand years.
During the book they give call backs to all the characters that have past our path during the series, but no mention of Shed?!
( expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Shed_Garvey_(Books) )