If anyone wondered how I have comments days or even weeks before you saw the video, they are Patreon members and get access the day I film and edit my videos rather than waiting to be released on my RUclips schedule of Tuesdays and Fridays. www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221 Also shoutout to Dan the Wolfman as he did send this .22 LR ammo and wanted to see how it would do, at least I recall him sending the hollow point Federal and Winchester, probably the LRN too (it's been a year so I forgot) ruclips.net/user/DanTheWolfman
In a self defense shooting all that training you do goes out the window. You don't think about shooting the vital organs. You don't think about how your aim at all. Your hands will be trembling and your motor skills will become sloppy. Why the fuck would you bet your life on the weakest caliber in the entire world? The only people who would carry such a round are people who kill people for a living because it is the only caliber that can effectively be silenced. I shoot a 22 for target practice. I have found that in terms of practicing aim for all my other guns a .22 gets that done. I would never in my fucking life carrying it for defense. So please shut the fuck up you fucking dumb ass. Nobody would volunteer because nobody wants to get shot at. Think about this, there was a florida man who accidentally shot himself in the arm with a 22 and didn't notice for 2 fucking days. Why you think that was?
I grew up where my dad had some deer rifles in the closet, never loaded. He thought if someone broke in he wouldn't even use them, or if he did he would load them in the middle of the night after being awakened lol
@@GunSam Understood. Grew up shooting and hunting myself, although my grandpa was a rancher so we kept everything loaded. You'll be proud to know he slept with a Smith 38 under his pillow.
It never really was . It was only considered enough just having a gun by people that don't know guns. Fudd has nothing to do with it. Most of the older guys here that care nothing about modern guns normally have 38 through 45 that they carry. Mr. Liews a nabor and rancher is 91 he still cares a 44-40 new service.
Good comparison. One thing to consider. A few years back I ran into an older couple who were shooting a .22 pistol and a Ruger LCR in .22 at a local range. They told me these were the guns they carried because arthritis prevented them from shooting anything in a stouter caliber. They also were pretty good shots at ten yards.
I had a heart attack last Aug. 20th. It has left me weaker than I have ever been in my life. I am seriously considering switching over to a .22 face gun with the Federal Punch ammunition. I believe a person should be able to carry the gun he or she wants to. It is their own business and choice to make. I need about two months of PT. "Go out and stay safe."
@@stephen8433 if you're going with a 22 I would suggest a 22mag. They seem more reliable they use a better bullet design. And I could not tell any difference in recoil but more importantly my dad could not after major hart attack. Dad ended up getting a 32 h@r and used 32 s&w long wadcutters. And your right carry what you want to and can. But don't expect the 22 to stop someone determined.
This is one of your best briefings, ever. I agree with your comments. I have been involved with two situations. In both the problem stopped as soon as a firearm was brandished. not shots fired. Moral of the story: have a gun. If the odds of having a gun when you need it is the 22 in your pocket vs the 45 at home, then carry the 22.
No shots fired, is a whole lot less expensive and problematic in the legal system. As with any firearms discussion about self defense, the healthy perspective on all of this is to maintain the front-and-center reality that shooting at someone is really something that is in the vast minority and most extreme resorts of all confrontations. But we deal with it because it is one of the most crucial and determinate acts that someone could ever take. And as with those who give the best advice straight out of legal experience, the statement still stands, "We shoot to stop the threat" (not end a life). That said, we do intend to return lethal force against lethal threats. It's unfortunate if a life ends in this process.
If you are taken to the court, carrying a 22 means that you didn’t want to kill anyone and if there is any civil lawsuit, the amount will be less than sit by 44 magnum.
When I took the course for a ccw permit in Ohio I remember the instructor saying that he never heard of a bad guy asking what caliber a gun was that he was facing.
As a pure caliber debate most things outshine .22. Once you consider easy of shooting, capacity and the ability to train many more shots per dollar spent the plot thickens.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 I wouldn’t carry .22 for self defense either, but I’ll ask the proverbial question: You gonna let me double tap you in the face with a .22lr from 10 feet? That’s what I thought.
The question is adequacy and the answer is yes. Were the question something else the other answers would be more appropriate. IE: is it your choice or recommendation, ETC. Every Caliber has it’s place and the 22LR is quite versatile - given the tremendous possible combinations of bullet type and speed combined with many quality and affordable pistols it’s utility as a defensive pistol will remain. For some folks it is their “Now and Later” pistol. As in “I get good with it now and later when I cannot handle the bigger guns it will be there”. Proficiency with a quality pistol has value in a bad situation and a competently handled 22LR will outshine a fumbled what-ever better pistol / calibre there may be. Sure there are smaller 38 specials out there that may have an advantage and be similar in size & handling but that doesn’t mean the 22 LR will not work. May all your journeys be adventures and your havens safe
Bob Stasch of the Chicago police department was interviewed by Massad Ayoob on the ProArms podcast. He told the story of a shooting he was involved in during the 1980's. He and his partner were grappling with a suspect, the suspect pulled a knife and they fired a total of 15 shots of 44 magnum, 38 special and 45 Colt at point blank range into the guys chest and back and the guy kept fighting them. Only after getting shot in the knee and falling to the ground were they able to grab the guys arm and wrestle the knife away. The guy survived for 10 days on life support before he finally died. On the other hand, some people die from eating a peanut.
law enforcement research and stats of gun fights is much different then the private citizen, law enforcement has to chase and put cuffs on, a private citizen only defends and takes cover extracting themselves, bob stacsh i have known about for decades but defense research you have to seperate law enforcement from private citizen because they have to keep shooting or get cuffs on, private citizens need only to defend and extract themselves and let law enforcement handle the chase, this is the reason law enforcement fires more shots and has more dangerous situations, they have to go into the lions den, a private citizen does not have to nor get into extended gun fight but simply extract themselves from the threat wether shots are fired or not, thats why law enforcement has these crazy gun fights a private citizen doesnt have to get involved in, private citizens have the option to go away from the threat and not have to fire more shots if a break in contact happens
Yes it is an interesting thing. But as you point out what stopped him, I always tell my girlfriend that attackers for her are not the same, they are looking for something else so shoot them in the hip and run away. They won't be catching you and that's 100% stopping power when you shatter their hip.
@@GunSam girls thankfully have a break in contact in most defense situations with no shots fired or if a shot fired and hit the perp most flee or dont want anymore despite caliber because human natural instict is fear when being shot even if bullet doesnt meat fbi standards, just being shot by anything causes perps to flee, if not thats why we have more rounds in the magazine and a spare, also one should extract themselves and get away from the threat and shooting on the move, stopping power isnt just death but can be a break in contact of that person though not killed doesnt want to continue the attack, very rare that a smal girl with even a under powered small pistol loses a defense situation, they are mostly succesful depite caliber, capacity or bullet performance, its not to say we dont strive for a good bullet and gel testing but its not the doom in statistics we think even with poor perfomance bullets in small calibers, claude werner was inteviewed about small pistols and small calibers and actual reports of the end of defense situation doesnt show your doomed for having a small caliber pistol or bullet that doesnt do well in gel she wouldnt have to use a 44 to kill the perp because she is not chasing to put on cuffs, she is a private citizen that will defend only and extract herself, law enforcement has to chase and put cuffs on, she wouldnt so law enforcement is very different in their role compared to the role of a private citizen wich is to defend, take cover and extract themselves unlike law enforcement wich is just the opposite and must stay to put cuff on or a extended gun fight
@@bobjones-bt9bhits wasnt that but poor shot placement not hitting heart or head as bob stasch said himself in his video with massad ayoob interview, these events happened thousands of times in many police departments over the decades when shot placement caused massive damage but no blood pressure drop if heart and arteries are still not hit, lights on still if no head shots also
Thank you, Sam. your points are well taken. That said, during my 6th grade Christmas holidays a classmate of mine was climbing from the front seat of the family vehicle to the back. While doing so, his 22LR rifle discharged, killing him instantly. Capacity can be a factor as well. My Taurus TX22 holds 16 rounds in each magazine.
We all agree shot placement is king. With that in mind the next question is which handgun will allow you to place your shots the easiest and a .22lr is high on the list.
Respectfully disagree. This is why BB guns aren’t truly dangerous. A 22LR center mass against an attacker in heavy clothing can be near worthless, depending on various factors. A .357 Mag in the same situation is not worthless. Penetration is king. Shot placement is queen
@@douglasbunch3313 BB and pellet guns are extremely dangerous. People are just not trying to kill people with it so the numbers remain low. When they accidently go off and hit a person, if they hit the right spot death occurs. But for self defense, yeah I'd rather the biggest and baddest concealable caliber I can carry.
I have before. I don't recall if I ever released the Velocitor video, but I have with Punch. Even then I still feel like bulk ammo is better as you can practice with it more and it is seemingly more reliable as far as slides moving goes. I have seen a lot of people get constant jams with the Punch. A nice 9 shot revolver with Velocitors would be a good option.
@@GunSam That's the beauty of rimfire though, you can practice with the cheap stuff and carry the good stuff and it all recoils the same and shoots to same POI (for the most part). Same can't always be said for range vs defensive ammunition in larger calibers. But yes, if I carry .22lr, it's in a revolver and not an auto.
@@OceanKing6725 agreed but still need to shoot a bit more Punch before I trust it. So far my Bobcat seems much more reliable with reliable with solid as opposed to hollow point rounds. It’s an older model
Back in the 1980s I was a Deputy Sheriff, we were responding to a domestic call, same location where we had responded to multiple times previously. Dispatcher came back with shots fired. Wife shot her abusive husband 5 times in the face with .22LR (LSP bullets). Four bullets were lodged in the lower jaw/facial bones, and one bullet penetrated eye killing him instantly. Israeli Mossad used a 22LR caliber Baretta model 71 for offensive use. - Bottom line it's bullet placement! - "Aim small miss small"
Shot placement is the most important factor in South Carolina a Highway patrol officer was killed with a 22 magnum after he shot the gunman with a 357 magnum.
I worked in an emergency room in the 80s. Interesting how most high-caliber gunshots were nonlethal. I had one 22lr that was a perfect heart shot. I believe it was the only 22lr gunshot victim in 12 years. Several shotguns mostly 9mm and 45.
I like your analysis Sam. Another excellent, thought provoking video. I enjoy shooting .22 LR. It’s easier to group tightly and fire quickly just as you described. It amazes me how much punch that the . 22 LR has given its such a small cartridge. I shoot it from a Keltec P-17 ( which has an amazing trigger right out of the box). I have shot plywood, cement backer board, metal pots and pans, water jugs, etc. I have never seen what it can do to human tissue (and I Pray that I never do), but on hard inanimate objects, the 22 LR always impresses me. I think it is a viable self-defense option understanding that it is not going to be a one-shot man stopper like the .357 magnum.
Carried a S&W model 2213 when I worked at a local Stop & Rob. Was talking with a DPS trooper one night when he asked me if I was armed. Told him yes and since we were the only two in the store I reached behind me and and showed him what had. He called me a "sadistic son of a b*tch" followed by "Shoot me with a 44, 45, 357, 38 or 9mm but don't shoot me with no f*cking 22." I laughed and said "yeah, 9 rounds center mass across a 30 inch counter might mess up your day."
You may not believe this, Sam, but about 5 yrs ago I bought my first pistol ever, and first gun since I was a boy when I had .22 rifles. It was just for fun. I bought an NAA-22lr. The smallest .22lr minirevolver, 1 1/8 inch barrel. Still have it and love plinking with it. Anyhow, I went out in the woods to try it out and fired it without ear protection, like I used to fire my .22lr rifles years ago and BOY HOWDY. First shot, strong ringing and a sharp pain. Subsequent shots (only fired 15) all hurt at least a bit. Hearing was diminished slightly, but slowly came back to normal. Didn't think much about it till later on I cleaned the ear carefully with a Q-tip and out came a small scab and tiny drop of blood! So apparently I punctured the drum there, at least a tiny bit. It got better, as the joke goes, but I still think of it and that's why I always wear my earplugs now. Lesson learned. I suspect that your ears were already damaged from years of shooting so it was not as traumatic for you to shoot without plugs in, but I bet if I did it, I'd be a hurting unit! I have since learned of course, that very short barrel .22lr pistols are much louder than longer barrel pistols and a lot less loud than rifles. Silly me. That makes sense. So fair warning to viewers... shooting is probably gonna do some damage if you've never shot a gun, if you don't wear hearing protection. I'm not deaf, my hearing's still fine, but it did hurt and I did bleed, so be aware that it's possible. In the long run, I'd do it again, because it's worth it of course. I like shooting.
if you were poking yur ear DRUM with a Qtip you are doing it all WRONG,and I'd bet thats where the canal wound came from, you poked to hard and scratched the ear CANAL, not the drum.. go see your Dr. and he'll tell you the same thing....
I probably had similar experiences in guns. I grew up shooting, then as an older teen and young man had no interest, parents thought handguns were evil but deer rifles fine lol. Then around 30 I started shooting handguns. In my youth no one used ear plugs. We shot everything regularly. 500 bricks of .22 a day, .22 LR and .22 Mag revolvers, deer rifles, never ear protection. What's interesting is I have very sensitive hearing where people ask how I possibly heard a certain noise, or what people are saying. As far as I know I have zero hearing damage. My brother grew up the same way and he's an audiologist. So, it's a mystery to me how others have hearing damage and my family seemingly does not.
Several months ago I did the same thing with our NAA...it took the first shot to go looking for my ears...I've heard the magnums are even a touch louder, I'll take their word for it...
Your example of the attacker swinging something to explain stopping power, is the best description I have ever seen. It clicked for me. another great video!
Thank you. That's what it's been always. Doesn't mean they won't do another motion, but generally a record of incidents saying a certain number for stopping power, will generally be correct for stopping a motion. I believe it's purely physical, because the lower spectrum of stopping power like 20% is generally with cartridges around 100 FPE, that's like an elementary school kid punch. When we see stuff 90% and above reliably we generally look at 500 FPE cartridges like a grown man punch in energy. You could see how a kid punch wouldn't go past adrenalin but a man punch that moves someone would be felt and cause enough movement to involuntarily stop what they are doing to see what happened.
22 revolver for my wife and a homestead 10 22 charger for everyone at home. never under estimate. nice to have someone other than you that can use a firearm.
Yes it's amazing how in a fight or when hunting your system seems to shut down in terms of hearing the weapon discharge or feeling felt recoil even with very powerful rifles. Excellent review and commentary, well done.
Hi Sam, judging from the news, at least in Europe, when a .22 is used for defence, it is usually an entry-level target gun used inside the house against housebreakers. A few shots are fired, most of them land and the fight is over quickly. When a centerfire pistol is used, usually it is used against robbers, who have guns of their own, a lot of shots are fired both ways, a few land and the fight goes from the shop into the street. It seems to me that the .22 and the 9 don't get in the same situation very often.
@@AK-ky3ou nope, home invaders seem to have none at the ready or not to shoot effectively while robbers do. Shopkeepers seem to have a 9 ready and not a .22, whereas some homeowners just have a .22 and that is what they use, some have 12 gauge, some have other guns, many have none.
I think the question should be more of "can you use .22 for self defense" Not "should you use .22 for self defense" I think people get confused, I don't hear people saying it's the best or even that it's recommended but I think what needs to be asked is can it be a viable option for some people and in some situations and can it be effective
.22 is for head shots if you're lucky enough to get a few off, as for stopping power, maybe not but anyone who's been hit with this round will tell you it hurts like hell, unless you're hopped up on crack or meth.
It's not the worst advice to recommend people be accurate with their firearm. It's all well and good saying "well, I'll get good with my micro nine" when is that going to happen? At what cost in ammo? Regular people can quickly develop the skill to land multiple hits with good accuracy and speed with 22LR and with a far smaller cost in ammunition. Project Salvo and similar studies have found that many small projectile impacts are far more effective than a single large projectile impact, this is due to the biomechanics if you puncture one hole in a lung it'll hardly bleed out more with a bigger hole (it's like a burst tire with a larger hole) but hitting the other will massively increase blood loss. If you can handle the recoil of a bigger round then go for it, but if you can't then you may be better off with a 22 you can hit rapidly and accurately with than a 9x19 that you can shoot fast or precisely but not both at the same time.
That was a fascinating video. Was just shooting today at the range,trying some of the same quick shots on steel and paper with 22lr Beretta Model 71 and a Ruger Wrangler.Almost 69, 22lr is affordable for seniors and allows us to actually practice with today's crazy high prices of ammo.
When you were talking about shooting with no hearing protection it reminded me of yesterday. I have a small farm in the mountains and had some animals going after my ducks/chickens. I had JUST switched out my .22longs to .22 mag. Well I ran out the door and pulled the trigger..my ears rang for quite some time. I will not be doing that again. Switched back to .22 lr. NOT the mag ! Those things are loud ! Anyways, thank you for your videos and for farm protection .22 lr or shorts for me. Cheap and effective.
A 22 is a burst fire weapon. It can be fired multiple times while most shooters are recovering from recoil of larger calibers. A 22 can be fired into small groups, and shocking power of rapid shots increases hydrostatic damage geometrically . Is a 22 is all you have you are not defenseless . Another factor is tactics, if someone is coming at you with a weapon, move.
That is another factor at play, I don't see get talked about. How well can you hit a moving target with a high caliber round vs a 22lr round? I'd bet many would have more success with a 22lr when it comes to handgun cartridges.
Should you use 22lr for personal protection? Yes but also no depending on the person. For someone like me who is a fairly large young adult male who shoots weekly, no. A larger round will more reliably stop a threat and with practice you can still get accurate and fast follow ups. For someone like my grandmother who is experience enough to carry a gun but doesn’t practice often, is quite small of stature, and struggles with the report and recoil of a 380acp, yes 22lr is now a decent choice.
I was taught that if the aggresor is still coming towards me too keep shooting until they stop.That is why I carry a 22LR revolver with 9 rounds of CCI Velocitor ammo in it.
I actually carry my SW22 Victory around the farm and use it for a Plan D in the house. I’ve even been known to keep it in the car sometimes. The only reason I do this is because I shoot really well with it, so I’m confident in shot placement and would rather use a .22 for simple tasks than waste a good 9mm or something else.
.22 is better than nothing. Most people that carry are never ever in their life going to be in a situation in which they need to use their firearm to defend themself. It really comes down more to keeping one's cool and if you have to do - to put rounds on target. .22 has the benefit of being small and easy to carry and in having low recoil which is going to aid in keeping on target - the trade off is that its not punchy like the bigger calibers. I wouldn't recommend it as a carry gun if you have anything bigger. I think the real issue is to not be put in a situation in which you may need to use your gun. Of course you can't control other people and the stupid things they do. That said one of my "home defense" guns is a Ruger 10/22 with two 25 round mags - so that would be 50 aimed rounds of .22 - which I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd ever need that - but you never know. My first choice in defending my home though is my .12 gauge with #4 buck.
Ruger 10/22's are very common. 200 foot pounds of energy, 10 quick rounds. Home defence, highly workable, no recoil, folding stock. Stopping power of 5 plus rounds in the chest excellent real world outcome.
Reaching with the ft lbs but alrighty. How do you know of the outcome of said 5 shots? I think multiple rounds in the same spot are great, but i call cap on that “real world outcome”
Marshall and Sanow as I recall set the 22lr closer to 55%. This was based essentially on the observation that most people just stop fighting. The Ellofritz study as I recall lumped .22 long rifle, longs and shorts from pistols and rifles together. One other issue: we don't have enough shootings with the new generation of rounds to determine the effectiveness of rounds like .22lr Punch, and Silvertips.
Given how I cary and don't care for a lot of weight, the 38Spl+P is my favorite self defense load. The gun I carry it in is light and reliable. While I could go with 357 Magnum, it really is a bit much to handle in that gun. As far as the Bobcat goes in 22LR, it's a lot of fun. But if it has a hiccup, that can take too long to clear because there is no extractor. And you're not guaranteed to be able to put all shots into the face. Sometimes center of mass is all you get. Given the single action pull on the Bobcat, you can empty it very quickly. The question is, is eight enough? In the 38, five is usually enough.
.22 LR from a lengthy barrel will basically stab a hole similar to those made by a spike prison shank , into the heart , lungs, or brain . If a gun can stab You like a prison shank at ten yards : It’s lethal enough .
My dad kept an old 22 single action revolver with a 6' barrel by his chair where he slept. It wouldn't be my first choice of gun, but I would never want to be on the business end of one either.
Let's start from the other end. Who would argue that the .22 LR is ineffective in self defense? It might not be as hard hitting as more powerful rounds, but hits from .22 LR cannot be ignored.
some people would legit think this lol. In this day and age there's no excuse for ignorance like that especially with entertainment like videos showing the truth. Now back in the 80's and my little buddies saying .22 bounces off skin, well back then sure, no way to know, but now days no one should be so ignorant to simple ballistics like that.
When the shooting starts only a stupid person would hang around. Effective shot placement even in a heated situation can end a threat. A .22 in the face or head can be as effective as a 9mm
@4:13 I was just going to say can't you get off multiple rounds quicker and more accurate for some people with a 22lr semi auto because the lack of recoil?
I recently found a Smith and Wesson 22 model 617. Been putting tons of rounds through it on my outdoor range. It's an absolute blast to shoot and great overall gun.
Not too long ago I was looking to buy one , cool but high price I ended up with an As New safe queen Ruger MKII blue 6 7/8" for 4 bills it's very acc & fun
22 would not be my choice for ccw if I had other options but if it’s all I had I would carry it. I would feel good using it for home defense out of a rifle and I know you were testing that ammo for a reason but for self defense there is better ammo that will penetrate deeper. We also have to remember that most 22lr is not made for self defense but for varmits or just plinking. Thanks for the video Sam ……very well done 👍👍.
It is shot placement & how tough your opponent is. In 2008 Skokie , IL PO chased a bank robber onto a residential street. Officer Gamins hit the robber 17 times with a .45. Between the 2 over 50 shots exchanged. The officer was able to end it with a few head shots. He thankfully wasn't hit. The robber was described about 6 foot and lanky. Not on drugs. Officer switched to 9mm. This was not your typical civilian shoot & disengage shooting. I'm not saying .22 isnt good. The podcast is very captivating. Active Self Protection. You do a great job Sam.
@@ftdefiance1 Yes and those are some of the ones I was thinking about when I suggested there were better ammo options for self defense with deeper penetration.
The sound was surprising to me too. I accidentally shot one shot of 380 without ear pro and I did not notice a ringing in my ears either. One time I blew up a bicycle tube when I was learning to be a bike mechanic and that was loud. My ears were ringing and I was rather dazed, not knowing what happened.
I had to put down a car hit deer , 30 ft from a 5.5" Ruger auto & a Golden Bullet right between the eyes = instant lights out , 1 shot . A 22Lr is as good as you are , the Ruger is very acc .
My son has a 22lr pistol in his room. He is not afraid of it and can shoot it acurately. Against a large attacker (300+ lbs), I warned him he might have to go for the head. I worry a little less with him having it. There are plenty of instances where multiple shots center mass with 9mm to 00 buck doesn't just drop the attacker.
As for me, I don't think I'll be doing any shooting without ear protection. I already suffer from tinnitus, in both ears. But given that I would not have time to put on ear protection in a real life situation, .22LR makes even more sense, all the gun experts notwithstanding.
Enjoyed your presentation. Liked your display/explanation of what you were going to do. Very good camera work. Reasonable discussion. I practice 1x per mo for abt 1 hr. Use 22lr for abt 30 mins. Then 9mm. Usually finish at 25 yds. Use both calibers. Can shoot faster & tighter groups with 22lr. Both pistols abt 4" barrels. EDC is 4" 9mm. Always pocket carry a light wgt 22 mag dbl action revolver. Especially at gas stations & convenience stores. Think speed is maybe most important. Recommend older Lucky Gunner video. Comments by two Federal ammo designers abt caliber debate.
One thing I can do with a .22lr is shoot it in my basement using Aguila Colibri ammo with no powder in it, a primer-only round. Easy to make a backstop, and I use revolvers... practice point shooting a lot with small revolvers. Getting good at it, even with NAA minis. The ammo won't cycle a semiauto though, so sad too bad. Wish it would, but the revolvers are still a heckuva lot of fun.
I used to shoot that stuff all the time. Believe it or not, I used to have a 4" Taurus 94 and shot a 15" propane tank I setup from 230 yards like 5 times in a row. I was aiming at the horizon lol, was one of those fluke things I could never do again. I used to shoot them in a house I used to live in that was slightly less rural than where I shoot my videos. It wasn't illegal, against township ordinance or anything, I just really preferred the colibri stuff in my backyard to not freak out my neighbors. Used either colibri or similar ammo here lol ruclips.net/video/u1bqzFgnB9I/видео.html
I normally would not choose a .22 LR for personal defense. I do however own a Ruger Mark IV target pistol with 2-10 round magazines. This pistol is very accurate out to 50 yards and is very reliable!! I would have no issue choosing this pistol as a quick back up self defense weapon if ever needed.
I carry a Bobcat often when hiking, walking the dog, running out to get gas, etc., i just drop it and a few magazines in my pocket. I sometimes even carry two mouse guns, It’s very easy. They weigh nothing. I feel fine with it. I also carry a NAA Guardian, a Colt Vest Pocket in 25ACP, and a 22 magnum Hi Standard Derringer a lot. No one knows what they are getting shot with. No one waits around to see what they are getting shot with. No one wants holes they weren’t born with. I have seen quoted numbers all over the place to the point of nonsensical. No one is shooting anyone with one shot. So, that data is pointless. Plus, it is much easier to fire multiple rounds with a 22 or a 32. Although, there is no doubt that a 357 is the king, few people carry one these days. I do sometimes, in several different configurations, as well as 45s, 9s, and 38 Supers, depending on where I am going, weather, activities, manner of dress, etc., . But, I don’t carry a mouse gun only to contend with drug addicted ninja zombies that come in bunches, I use them for snakes, raccoons, weasels, and other pest. The only downside to me, is that they are not center fire. So, I usually advise my daughters to carry 25s, 380s or 32s. I think 32s and 380s are a wonderful compromise. One daughter will only carry a 22. She loves it. She hikes all the time with it and a large canister of bear spray. Firing inside a house or inside a car, with a 9mm will wake you up too. I have to say that I took my girlfriend, who will only carry a 40, and hates 22s, even calling them pea shooters, out to shoot a 22 Bobcat. She loved it. She also felt much more confident in its ability. She still will carry her 40, but sometimes the way she needs to dress, it just isn’t possible, so this gives her an option. She also wants to carry one while she is working on her property. She now sees their utility value, which to me, is quite considerable. We used Velocitors, stingers, and the Federal Punch. One her 3rd shot, her thumb dragged on the slide, it’s a little pistol, and the slide didn’t fully seat, but once she knew where to hold her support hand, There were no failures of any kind. She could also get easy hits with one hand. She now claims that pistol and wants one in 25ACP as well. Ha! They are great little calibers and I hope the ammo manufacturers give them the attention they need to make the mouse guns: 22s, 25, 32, and 380s, as powerful and as reliable as they can be. At one time they were some of the best selling pistols in the world. They certainly have their place. Thanks for the video
Here we go again! Why not use some of the latest ammo specifically designed for both short barrels and self defense? Federal punch 22lr, Winchester silver tip or even Winchester wildcat optimized for semi autos.
I agree every one doing these comparison test use the olds weakest 22lr round they can find instead of using the good stuff i.e supermaximum flat nose or hp federal punch cci velocitors stingers or aguila interceptor flat nose or HP all very reliable and effective
I would say the 22lr is ok, bare minimum, but usable with good shot placement. Very economical. Better than 25acp. Seems like ya normally want the muzzle energy to be at least twice the weight of the target. 150pound target 300 muzzle energy. 350 pound deer, 700 pounds energy for a good hunt. But if just one firearm and tight budget then 22lr rifle is best.
While shot placement is more important, I would say there's a lot more to it than it being all about shot placement. Unlike jacketed bullets, .22 LR bullets are like marshmallows. What jacketed bullets do like bust ribs and skulls, a .22 LR has a much more difficult time doing. That means that shot placement requires even more precision than centerfire, and even then you still hear stories (not typically self defense, rather murder attempts) where someone was shot in the head with a .22, and either the bullet skipped off the skull, or went through the brain and the person survived, etc.
To be fair with 22lr and penetration. Most people will carry velocitor, stinger or punch. Also people are getting 15 round capacity weapons. Ruger lcpii with wingman + 4 mag base plates total 15 rounds in 13 ounce carry package, kel tec p17 16 rounds in 15 ounce carry, lcr 8 rounds uber reliable 15 ounce carry.
Punch might do well as I recall getting decent penetration, if I recall stingers didn't do much different than bulk ammo. My thought is a good performing reliable bulk ammo might be the way to go, but it depends on the person. I would say probably only 10% of gun people are like us where we are particular about carry ammo. The vast majority do seem to carry just whatever is cheapest, so it's good to see the regular stuff tested.
@@GunSam look at police captures of firearms a HIGH majority have mixed ammo in them often crappy stuff of wrong caliber or just useless OLD ammo with bizarre historys....
Being a person of large girth, I need to wear a belt tightly to hold up my pants. This tightness precludes the use of an IWB holster. So in the summer, when I cannot wear a jacket, I am relegated to open carry on the belt or else concealed carry in a pocket. So when dressed lightly in sport shorts, or engaging in some activities, I am relegated to a pocket pistol. For ease of carry and concealment, I go with a .25 acp.
@@onpsxmember -- I have tired several variations. IWB still does not work. Still need a belt to hang the holster from, and suspender on the outside interferes with the draw. OWB, with suspender *behind* the holster (I.e., between the belt and the holster ) provides much more stable support and does not interfere with the ability to draw. Thanks for the thought and suggestion anyway.
Use .22lr ammo known to penetrate enough for the test, 13-15" out of 2-4" barrels. CCI Velocitor, Federal Punch both meet the FBI standard. Unless your trying to make it look unacceptable.
I agree with you it seems most people doing these comparison test want to down play 22lr using the weaker loads for self defense applications 22lr is worthy of more appreciation if people use the to dispatch hogs and cows from a rifle and pistol what in the world they think it will do to a person our skin and bones aren't denser or tougher than those animals.
Female here, new to guns. I have a Springfield Hellcat 9mm, Smith and Wesson M&P .22 compact, and a Raven .25… i love them all and wish i could carry them all at the same time 😂but i carry the .22 daily
Suggestion for next video: compare rifle results (e.g. Ruger 10/22). If I have a sidearm choice it isn't going to be a .22, but for home defense it is so easy to grab the ol' Ruger and fire away. I can get off multiple and very accurate .22 in the same time I can get off a single shot of 12 guage... just sayin'
@@Isaac556x45 The 22 is one of the oldest still used rounds dating back to before the civil war and it can kill. However, the real problem is reliability. Rimfire ammo is less reliable and jams more frequently than centerfire ammo. For everyday carry size, weight, reliability and the operator's concerns must be taken into account to insure the weapon will be carried regularly. You might want to take your sister to a range and rent a 32 for her to try. It is more reliable than a 22 but has light recoil. Stay away from the 25 ACP. I've seen them fail way too often.
@@charlesashworth6805 If she is willing to carry a full size gun like that, it is not a bad option, probably the most reliable semi auto 22 pistol available.
The first handgun I purchased to carry is a Taurus GX4 (9mm), but the small frame and light weight make it hard for me to quickly and accurately place follow up shots, so I recently switched to carrying my Kel-Tec P17. I can accurately place many more rounds on target in the same amount of time compared to my GX4, and with the Aguila Interceptor solid point I still get just over 100 ft/lbs of energy out of the 3.8 inch barrel, and it meets the FBI minimum penetration. Seventeen of those .22s on target is better than a few 9mm in my opinion. For pocket carry I have a DB380, but that's only because I don't like any of the pocket 22s.
You haven't discussed the major issue with .22 ammo: reliability. Misfires and failures to feed are common with .22 ammo, and that, to me, is its major drawback. I would only carry .22 for self defense in a revolver
it is an it also isn't an issue. What I mean, is I have seen cheap handguns have misfires with .22 LR, but I have also seen decent quality .22's run 1,000 rounds at a time with no misfires like the Ruger 22/45 I used to have. Also revolvers are reliable. My main point here was terminal ballistics, exterior ballistics. I am not saying your point is not valid, I just sort of felt like most people know rimfire can be questionable. It's sort of like saying a revolver loses power out a cylinder gap. It is what is is, rimfire is a tad less reliable, but it sort of goes into a general handgun thing where you need to test your own carry ammo for reliability.
The Israeli Mossad used 22s , ammunition was usually Eley , double primed , they don’t seem to have any problems . They mainly used Beretta Jaguars. I had one , as well as the steel frame later model 70s. Both deadly accurate and reliable. I also have two US made Walther TPH 22s. Small accurate. No misfires . The older one seems to like CCI stingers, and the later one likes Winchester Wildcats and CCI mini Mags.
5:37 my concern look how tiny it is. Im not saying the bullet should be bigger but i do believe the feature makes good points about an accuracy falicy with this gun. Tiny does not mean accurate. He discusses ear ringing which may be incredibly important. If its dark and you missed. Now you flash banged yourself:blind and deaf. For home defense the noise concept is worth making its own video.
A .22 is better than nothing in hand and if your able to hit a vital organ or a bone area I know it will cause the perp to run or drop but I would rather have a .22 than nothing just like then.380 they claim it won’t be useful but I’ve seen videos of self defense and a .380 did. Dam good job stopping the threat but again to each his own at the end of the day it also comes down to control and hitting your mark
The Real Question: What if you had a light-weight 16-round capacity 22lr semi-auto shooting Federal Punch or CCI Velocitor (which have reliable 12+ inch penetration in gel tests) that hasn't had a failure in 1,000 rounds vs. a S&W 642 or 442 (with 5 rounds shooting your favorite brand of .38). Which would you choose and carry? Placing a dozen or more 22lr rounds in the target zones in the same amount of time as I could shoot 5 rounds (if I get lucky) of the .38 sounds to me like a better chance of hitting the critical body parts.
Personally I would rather have the .38. More rounds might increase your odds of stopping a threat, but the fact still remains that each shot has a low chance to stop the threat, and repeating that doesn't make the odds go up unless the odds were to kill the person. Like shot one 25% chance, shot 2 is also still 25%. With .38 Special+P it's up there where not only do the numbers say there's a good chance to stop a threat, but also there's a lot of reports of it working quite well especially with ammo like SWCHP "FBI load" type ammo. Then there's the legal issue, like okay I placed 2 shots center mass with a .38 Special, story adds up etc. But what if the story wasn't adding up in court, the the prosecutor would be like "the defendant shot him 10 times in the chest 5 in the head"....and the jury isn't going to know what a .22 is or isn't going to do. I'm not saying that I wouldn't use a .22 if it's all I had, I am just saying that relying on potentially having to use 16 rounds would make it seem like I was out for blood rather than defending myself.
@@GunSam A large part of me agrees with you, while the other part points out that I can't afford to get good at shooting a .38 with today's ammo prices and also points out that the recoil on a .38 revolver (or a compact 9mm for that matter) is a bitch compared to a 22. If I can practice 4x more with .22lr, price-wise, and there's a good chance I might be able to get the first shot (and a few more after that) in the target area under stress with a 22lr (let's say with an 8-shot S&W 43c or a Ruger LCR), do I just create a false sense of security if I carry a .38 instead of a .22 revolver? Both options have potentially significant trade-offs, it seems.
I have a featherweight S&W 422 semi-auto with a 6” barrel. I wonder how much better the .22lr would perform compared to the others with the extra running room? Never really thought of using it as a ccw, but it’s narrow and light and holds 10 rounds. It’s also a really fast shooter with outstanding accuracy. What do you think?
I had a break in and didnt have a real gun. I did have a aea hp plus semi auto pellet gun 30 cal (55-60fpe) and the guy that broke in had a 380 special. he was stopped lets just put it that way. I am sure the 22LR which is about the same would perform just fine. the air gun has 0 recoil even less than a 22 though so its very accurate and easy to stay on target. also not sure. I heard people saying the diablo pellet design was better at cutting into things at short distance than a conventional bullet not sure if its true or not. with that said. after the break in I went and got my License to carry here in MA which is not easy to get and got my self a 9mm hand gun because it has only medium recoil and has 300+fpe. I was seriously really worried the pellet gun was only gonna.piss the guy off. I only use it for medium sized game. raccons coyotes and felt it was woefully under powered. surprisingly it did lets say end the threat and the guy will never be doing B&Es again. that goes to show you having some kind of gun is better than having no kind of gun. even if its just a high powered pellet pistol.
I am a 68-year senior. I am of a small stature. I used to rely on unarmed martial arts in the younger days. But today, bones brittle, a lightweight .22 caliber would be a much better self-defense for me. The bigger ones might be more of a bothersome weight. Anyway, I read somewhere that even with this caliber, no one would like to be hit. And like the saying goes, "Better to have it...and not need it...than NOT to have it..and NEED it!"
For a Snubbie I think I would go with a .32. For a .22 I think I would prefer a 4" revolver. That said I think a 22 snub can be effective if used properly.
The best stopping power is the vital organ hit (heart/head). Whatever caliber you make those hits with is the best. The 22lr has very low recoil and is very cheap so you can train a lot more so you get very good with it. A missed shot or too late shot has zero stopping power.
I'll not say that the .22 rimfire is as effective as a .38Spl or a .357Mag. That would be a stupid thing to say of course. However, I've worked more than a few homicides where the victim was killed by a 22. Yet, one case where the victim was hit by 7 rounds from a 9mm, that was at the trial a month later to testify against his attacker. After decades of investigation, I've concluded that NOTHING is absolute.
I remember watching a crime show forever ago, two friends in Detroit running from gunfire, friend one pulls a .25 and shoots backwards without looking. Apparently one shot hit his friend and killed him. The friend with the .25 was never charged even though I don't think his gun was legal, but the guy shooting at them who never landed a shot was charged with murder for causing the event to unfold.
If it comes to a psychological stop of the attacker anything from a 22 short and up will do the trick. But if the attacker is determined to hurt, rob, or assault you, now you have to mechanically break them. Like bullets penetrating deep enough to reach the vital organs or bust bone like the pelvis, rib cage, or forearms. Considering that people living in the U.S are on the heavier side. Penetration is paramount.
Of course you will get those results using the ammo choice you use but i can assure you the results will be completely different if you were running aguila supermaximum flat nose or HP and of course with those target rounds you use with a weak charge penetration and tissue disruption will be less do your test again and use aguila supermaximum and see what you think
I don't need to do the test. I have tested all those rounds, whether I have videos released for them or not. Yes they penetrate a tad better, but the point here was to use some average ammo. The average person isn't going to be using specialty ammo, so the test with regular old ammo needed to be done. Plus I have had more reliability issues straying away from typical power ammo.
it doesn't. You have to take the bullet weight and do the math with the velocity. I don't know the actual equation so I use online ft lb energy calculators.
I always try shoot a round of most caliber without ear protection just so I kno what to expect in a defence situation when ur most likely not going have ears in
Interesting, but... For self- or home defense with a handgun, most experienced shooters primary choice would be a center fire firearm over a 22 lr However, the question you raised was "good enough". The data, including yours, suggests that the 22 lr is probably "good enough". You cited Greg Ellifritz' data, but also said that a 22 lr would "stop" an assailant's act only 25% of the time. But Ellifritz reported that in 31% of events the 22lr did not stop the attacker - therefore it did so in 69% of cases, not 25% . Other well-known events suggest that the 22lr effectiveness can be significant. Hinckley put three adult males to the ground and out of the fight, each with one shot, and President Reagan was severely wounded. The Israeli agent, Mordechai Rachamim killed one skyjacker who was wielding an AK 47, and wounded/captured 2 others, using a Beretta 22 lr pistol, then pretty much repeated that feat several years later. Personally, for self or home defense I have selected a larger caliber handgun. But for those who for their own reasons favor the 22 lr I will not dismiss them with the epithet it will only "piss off" an aggressor. However, I would suggest a pistol with at least a 4 or 5 inch barrel, or better yet a semi auto rifle such as the Ruger 10 22, as the ballistics from a rifle are significantly better (see Paul Harrell's "meat test" video with 22 lr rifles).
The Greg Ellifritz study does show a .22 fails to stop 31% of the time, but it also says one shot stop is coincidentally also 31%. Actually incapacitated to head or torso shot is 60%. Those are combined, common sense 60% is mostly head shots. The accuracy would be random, torso, leg, head, arm shots all combined 31% one shot stop percent.
Awesome GSam《☆》Good testing today Brother👍🍺🍕That reminds me I've got some old ammo I need to shoot up😁The boxes of Win 9mm Ranger T +P looked pretty old when I bought them from a Gun show 20 years ago. It's Cool of you to test the various Calibers without earmuffs. It would be unusual if a self defense shooter was wearing hearing protection eh🖖😎☮
If anyone wondered how I have comments days or even weeks before you saw the video, they are Patreon members and get access the day I film and edit my videos rather than waiting to be released on my RUclips schedule of Tuesdays and Fridays. www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221 Also shoutout to Dan the Wolfman as he did send this .22 LR ammo and wanted to see how it would do, at least I recall him sending the hollow point Federal and Winchester, probably the LRN too (it's been a year so I forgot) ruclips.net/user/DanTheWolfman
Is 414678 number coming from you to text or am I getting scammed
@@blackarm3265bet it’s a scam. Do not respond in any way. GBU
So many people say a 22 is worthless or harmless. Yet they never volunteer to prove that by being shot with one.
Only an idiot would volunteer to be shot by any bullet!
In a self defense shooting all that training you do goes out the window. You don't think about shooting the vital organs. You don't think about how your aim at all. Your hands will be trembling and your motor skills will become sloppy. Why the fuck would you bet your life on the weakest caliber in the entire world? The only people who would carry such a round are people who kill people for a living because it is the only caliber that can effectively be silenced. I shoot a 22 for target practice. I have found that in terms of practicing aim for all my other guns a .22 gets that done. I would never in my fucking life carrying it for defense. So please shut the fuck up you fucking dumb ass. Nobody would volunteer because nobody wants to get shot at. Think about this, there was a florida man who accidentally shot himself in the arm with a 22 and didn't notice for 2 fucking days. Why you think that was?
Did you even watch the video? Try again…
@@katietrotter9374 he was referring to people in general, not the uploader
Pay me $200,000 and miss the head heart and neck and you got yourself a deal
I can still remember when simply having a working firearm was considered adequate for self defense.
Yes, I'm a Fudd and proud of it.
I grew up where my dad had some deer rifles in the closet, never loaded. He thought if someone broke in he wouldn't even use them, or if he did he would load them in the middle of the night after being awakened lol
@@GunSam
Understood. Grew up shooting and hunting myself, although my grandpa was a rancher so we kept everything loaded.
You'll be proud to know he slept with a Smith 38 under his pillow.
@@B_R_ your Grandpa sounds awesome, very wise man, an unloaded gun is useless.
It never really was . It was only considered enough just having a gun by people that don't know guns. Fudd has nothing to do with it.
Most of the older guys here that care nothing about modern guns normally have 38 through 45 that they carry.
Mr. Liews a nabor and rancher is 91 he still cares a 44-40 new service.
@@B_R_ my dad had guns like that but loaded. Farm/ ranch. He said unloaded guns were at best useless at worst will get you killed
Good comparison. One thing to consider. A few years back I ran into an older couple who were shooting a .22 pistol and a Ruger LCR in .22 at a local range. They told me these were the guns they carried because arthritis prevented them from shooting anything in a stouter caliber. They also were pretty good shots at ten yards.
Thanks. I may or may not get to that point. I have arthritis but it's RA, but my trigger finger has been numb for a couple of months.
I had a heart attack last Aug. 20th. It has left me weaker than I have ever been in my life. I am seriously considering switching over to a .22 face gun with the Federal Punch ammunition. I believe a person should be able to carry the gun he or she wants to. It is their own business and choice to make. I need about two months of PT. "Go out and stay safe."
@@stephen8433 I hate to hear that Stephen. My prayers go out to you. In your circumstance I certainly don't think your choice is a bad one.
@@stephen8433 if you're going with a 22 I would suggest a 22mag. They seem more reliable they use a better bullet design. And I could not tell any difference in recoil but more importantly my dad could not after major hart attack.
Dad ended up getting a 32 h@r and used 32 s&w long wadcutters.
And your right carry what you want to and can. But don't expect the 22 to stop someone determined.
This is one of your best briefings, ever. I agree with your comments. I have been involved with two situations. In both the problem stopped as soon as a firearm was brandished. not shots fired. Moral of the story: have a gun. If the odds of having a gun when you need it is the 22 in your pocket vs the 45 at home, then carry the 22.
Thank you
No shots fired, is a whole lot less expensive and problematic in the legal system.
As with any firearms discussion about self defense, the healthy perspective on all of this is to maintain the front-and-center reality that shooting at someone is really something that is in the vast minority and most extreme resorts of all confrontations. But we deal with it because it is one of the most crucial and determinate acts that someone could ever take. And as with those who give the best advice straight out of legal experience, the statement still stands, "We shoot to stop the threat" (not end a life). That said, we do intend to return lethal force against lethal threats. It's unfortunate if a life ends in this process.
Literally what I do everyday 🍻 😂
If you are taken to the court, carrying a 22 means that you didn’t want to kill anyone and if there is any civil lawsuit, the amount will be less than sit by 44 magnum.
When I took the course for a ccw permit in Ohio I remember the instructor saying that he never heard of a bad guy asking what caliber a gun was that
he was facing.
As a pure caliber debate most things outshine .22. Once you consider easy of shooting, capacity and the ability to train many more shots per dollar spent the plot thickens.
Plot thickens? Are you high? The only thing 22lr is good for is plinking and squirrel hunting. That’s literally it.
@@frawdulent también para pajaritos.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 I wouldn’t carry .22 for self defense either, but I’ll ask the proverbial question: You gonna let me double tap you in the face with a .22lr from 10 feet? That’s what I thought.
The question is adequacy and the answer is yes.
Were the question something else the other answers would be more appropriate.
IE: is it your choice or recommendation, ETC.
Every Caliber has it’s place and the 22LR is quite versatile - given the tremendous possible combinations of bullet type and speed combined with many quality and affordable pistols it’s utility as a defensive pistol will remain. For some folks it is their “Now and Later” pistol. As in “I get good with it now and later when I cannot handle the bigger guns it will be there”. Proficiency with a quality pistol has value in a bad situation and a competently handled 22LR will outshine a fumbled what-ever better pistol / calibre there may be. Sure there are smaller 38 specials out there that may have an advantage and be similar in size & handling but that doesn’t mean the 22 LR will not work.
May all your journeys be adventures and your havens safe
Well said.
Bob Stasch of the Chicago police department was interviewed by Massad Ayoob on the ProArms podcast. He told the story of a shooting he was involved in during the 1980's. He and his partner were grappling with a suspect, the suspect pulled a knife and they fired a total of 15 shots of 44 magnum, 38 special and 45 Colt at point blank range into the guys chest and back and the guy kept fighting them. Only after getting shot in the knee and falling to the ground were they able to grab the guys arm and wrestle the knife away. The guy survived for 10 days on life support before he finally died.
On the other hand, some people die from eating a peanut.
law enforcement research and stats of gun fights is much different then the private citizen, law enforcement has to chase and put cuffs on, a private citizen only defends and takes cover extracting themselves, bob stacsh i have known about for decades but defense research you have to seperate law enforcement from private citizen because they have to keep shooting or get cuffs on, private citizens need only to defend and extract themselves and let law enforcement handle the chase, this is the reason law enforcement fires more shots and has more dangerous situations, they have to go into the lions den, a private citizen does not have to nor get into extended gun fight but simply extract themselves from the threat wether shots are fired or not, thats why law enforcement has these crazy gun fights a private citizen doesnt have to get involved in, private citizens have the option to go away from the threat and not have to fire more shots if a break in contact happens
Yes it is an interesting thing. But as you point out what stopped him, I always tell my girlfriend that attackers for her are not the same, they are looking for something else so shoot them in the hip and run away. They won't be catching you and that's 100% stopping power when you shatter their hip.
@@GunSam girls thankfully have a break in contact in most defense situations with no shots fired or if a shot fired and hit the perp most flee or dont want anymore despite caliber because human natural instict is fear when being shot even if bullet doesnt meat fbi standards, just being shot by anything causes perps to flee, if not thats why we have more rounds in the magazine and a spare, also one should extract themselves and get away from the threat and shooting on the move, stopping power isnt just death but can be a break in contact of that person though not killed doesnt want to continue the attack, very rare that a smal girl with even a under powered small pistol loses a defense situation, they are mostly succesful depite caliber, capacity or bullet performance, its not to say we dont strive for a good bullet and gel testing but its not the doom in statistics we think even with poor perfomance bullets in small calibers, claude werner was inteviewed about small pistols and small calibers and actual reports of the end of defense situation doesnt show your doomed for having a small caliber pistol or bullet that doesnt do well in gel she wouldnt have to use a 44 to kill the perp because she is not chasing to put on cuffs, she is a private citizen that will defend only and extract herself, law enforcement has to chase and put cuffs on, she wouldnt so law enforcement is very different in their role compared to the role of a private citizen wich is to defend, take cover and extract themselves unlike law enforcement wich is just the opposite and must stay to put cuff on or a extended gun fight
@@bobjones-bt9bhits wasnt that but poor shot placement not hitting heart or head as bob stasch said himself in his video with massad ayoob interview, these events happened thousands of times in many police departments over the decades when shot placement caused massive damage but no blood pressure drop if heart and arteries are still not hit, lights on still if no head shots also
@@bobjones-bt9bh yeah the 44 was certainly loaded to 22 specs
🙄
Thank you, Sam. your points are well taken. That said, during my 6th grade Christmas holidays a classmate of mine was climbing from the front seat of the family vehicle to the back. While doing so, his 22LR rifle discharged, killing him instantly.
Capacity can be a factor as well. My Taurus TX22 holds 16 rounds in each magazine.
We all agree shot placement is king. With that in mind the next question is which handgun will allow you to place your shots the easiest and a .22lr is high on the list.
Respectfully disagree. This is why BB guns aren’t truly dangerous. A 22LR center mass against an attacker in heavy clothing can be near worthless, depending on various factors. A .357 Mag in the same situation is not worthless. Penetration is king. Shot placement is queen
@@douglasbunch3313 BB and pellet guns are extremely dangerous. People are just not trying to kill people with it so the numbers remain low. When they accidently go off and hit a person, if they hit the right spot death occurs.
But for self defense, yeah I'd rather the biggest and baddest concealable caliber I can carry.
If self defense with a .22 pistol is what you're after, you have to use CCI Velocitors or Federal Punch. Should test those.
I have before. I don't recall if I ever released the Velocitor video, but I have with Punch. Even then I still feel like bulk ammo is better as you can practice with it more and it is seemingly more reliable as far as slides moving goes. I have seen a lot of people get constant jams with the Punch. A nice 9 shot revolver with Velocitors would be a good option.
@@GunSam That's the beauty of rimfire though, you can practice with the cheap stuff and carry the good stuff and it all recoils the same and shoots to same POI (for the most part). Same can't always be said for range vs defensive ammunition in larger calibers.
But yes, if I carry .22lr, it's in a revolver and not an auto.
My Bobcat jams with Velocitors but feeds great with Punch 🤷🏼♂️
@@ChestRock555 If it works, it works. Punch is good stuff.
@@OceanKing6725 agreed but still need to shoot a bit more Punch before I trust it. So far my Bobcat seems much more reliable with reliable with solid as opposed to hollow point rounds. It’s an older model
Back in the 1980s I was a Deputy Sheriff, we were responding to a domestic call, same location where we had responded to multiple times previously. Dispatcher came back with shots fired.
Wife shot her abusive husband 5 times in the face with .22LR (LSP bullets). Four bullets were lodged in the lower jaw/facial bones, and one bullet penetrated eye killing him instantly.
Israeli Mossad used a 22LR caliber Baretta model 71 for offensive use.
- Bottom line it's bullet placement!
- "Aim small miss small"
Shot placement is the most important factor in South Carolina a Highway patrol officer was killed with a 22 magnum after he shot the gunman with a 357 magnum.
I worked in an emergency room in the 80s. Interesting how most high-caliber gunshots were nonlethal. I had one 22lr that was a perfect heart shot. I believe it was the only 22lr gunshot victim in 12 years. Several shotguns mostly 9mm and 45.
Did the 22lr heart shot patient die?
I like your analysis Sam. Another excellent, thought provoking video. I enjoy shooting .22 LR. It’s easier to group tightly and fire quickly just as you described.
It amazes me how much punch that the . 22 LR has given its such a small cartridge. I shoot it from a Keltec P-17 ( which has an amazing trigger right out of the box). I have shot plywood, cement backer board, metal pots and pans, water jugs, etc. I have never seen what it can do to human tissue (and I Pray that I never do), but on hard inanimate objects, the 22 LR always impresses me. I think it is a viable self-defense option understanding that it is not going to be a one-shot man stopper like the .357 magnum.
Carried a S&W model 2213 when I worked at a local Stop & Rob. Was talking with a DPS trooper one night when he asked me if I was armed. Told him yes and since we were the only two in the store I reached behind me and and showed him what had. He called me a "sadistic son of a b*tch" followed by "Shoot me with a 44, 45, 357, 38 or 9mm but don't shoot me with no f*cking 22." I laughed and said "yeah, 9 rounds center mass across a 30 inch counter might mess up your day."
You may not believe this, Sam, but about 5 yrs ago I bought my first pistol ever, and first gun since I was a boy when I had .22 rifles. It was just for fun. I bought an NAA-22lr. The smallest .22lr minirevolver, 1 1/8 inch barrel. Still have it and love plinking with it. Anyhow, I went out in the woods to try it out and fired it without ear protection, like I used to fire my .22lr rifles years ago and BOY HOWDY. First shot, strong ringing and a sharp pain. Subsequent shots (only fired 15) all hurt at least a bit. Hearing was diminished slightly, but slowly came back to normal. Didn't think much about it till later on I cleaned the ear carefully with a Q-tip and out came a small scab and tiny drop of blood! So apparently I punctured the drum there, at least a tiny bit. It got better, as the joke goes, but I still think of it and that's why I always wear my earplugs now. Lesson learned.
I suspect that your ears were already damaged from years of shooting so it was not as traumatic for you to shoot without plugs in, but I bet if I did it, I'd be a hurting unit!
I have since learned of course, that very short barrel .22lr pistols are much louder than longer barrel pistols and a lot less loud than rifles. Silly me. That makes sense.
So fair warning to viewers... shooting is probably gonna do some damage if you've never shot a gun, if you don't wear hearing protection. I'm not deaf, my hearing's still fine, but it did hurt and I did bleed, so be aware that it's possible. In the long run, I'd do it again, because it's worth it of course. I like shooting.
if you were poking yur ear DRUM with a Qtip you are doing it all WRONG,and I'd bet thats where the canal wound came from, you poked to hard and scratched the ear CANAL, not the drum.. go see your Dr. and he'll tell you the same thing....
meant to say "a lot louder than rifles" of course... dammit
I probably had similar experiences in guns. I grew up shooting, then as an older teen and young man had no interest, parents thought handguns were evil but deer rifles fine lol. Then around 30 I started shooting handguns. In my youth no one used ear plugs. We shot everything regularly. 500 bricks of .22 a day, .22 LR and .22 Mag revolvers, deer rifles, never ear protection. What's interesting is I have very sensitive hearing where people ask how I possibly heard a certain noise, or what people are saying. As far as I know I have zero hearing damage. My brother grew up the same way and he's an audiologist. So, it's a mystery to me how others have hearing damage and my family seemingly does not.
Several months ago I did the same thing with our NAA...it took the first shot to go looking for my ears...I've heard the magnums are even a touch louder, I'll take their word for it...
Your example of the attacker swinging something to explain stopping power, is the best description I have ever seen. It clicked for me. another great video!
Thank you. That's what it's been always. Doesn't mean they won't do another motion, but generally a record of incidents saying a certain number for stopping power, will generally be correct for stopping a motion. I believe it's purely physical, because the lower spectrum of stopping power like 20% is generally with cartridges around 100 FPE, that's like an elementary school kid punch. When we see stuff 90% and above reliably we generally look at 500 FPE cartridges like a grown man punch in energy. You could see how a kid punch wouldn't go past adrenalin but a man punch that moves someone would be felt and cause enough movement to involuntarily stop what they are doing to see what happened.
22 revolver for my wife and a homestead 10 22 charger for everyone at home. never under estimate. nice to have someone other than you that can use a firearm.
Yes it's amazing how in a fight or when hunting your system seems to shut down in terms of hearing the weapon discharge or feeling felt recoil even with very powerful rifles. Excellent review and commentary, well done.
There are a lot of people, who dismissed the effectiveness the .22 round, lying horizontally in cemetaries.
Indeed. And the ones lying vertically are usually in Congress.
Well put friend, well put
Hi Sam, judging from the news, at least in Europe, when a .22 is used for defence, it is usually an entry-level target gun used inside the house against housebreakers. A few shots are fired, most of them land and the fight is over quickly. When a centerfire pistol is used, usually it is used against robbers, who have guns of their own, a lot of shots are fired both ways, a few land and the fight goes from the shop into the street. It seems to me that the .22 and the 9 don't get in the same situation very often.
@@AK-ky3ou nope, home invaders seem to have none at the ready or not to shoot effectively while robbers do. Shopkeepers seem to have a 9 ready and not a .22, whereas some homeowners just have a .22 and that is what they use, some have 12 gauge, some have other guns, many have none.
I think the question should be more of "can you use .22 for self defense"
Not "should you use .22 for self defense" I think people get confused, I don't hear people saying it's the best or even that it's recommended but I think what needs to be asked is can it be a viable option for some people and in some situations and can it be effective
and 'my' answers are ... yes, yes and MAYBE, because it depends......
.22 is for head shots if you're lucky enough to get a few off, as for stopping power, maybe not but anyone who's been hit with this round will tell you it hurts like hell, unless you're hopped up on crack or meth.
It's not the worst advice to recommend people be accurate with their firearm. It's all well and good saying "well, I'll get good with my micro nine" when is that going to happen? At what cost in ammo? Regular people can quickly develop the skill to land multiple hits with good accuracy and speed with 22LR and with a far smaller cost in ammunition.
Project Salvo and similar studies have found that many small projectile impacts are far more effective than a single large projectile impact, this is due to the biomechanics if you puncture one hole in a lung it'll hardly bleed out more with a bigger hole (it's like a burst tire with a larger hole) but hitting the other will massively increase blood loss.
If you can handle the recoil of a bigger round then go for it, but if you can't then you may be better off with a 22 you can hit rapidly and accurately with than a 9x19 that you can shoot fast or precisely but not both at the same time.
That was a fascinating video. Was just shooting today at the range,trying some of the same quick shots on steel and paper with 22lr Beretta Model 71 and a Ruger Wrangler.Almost 69, 22lr is affordable for seniors and allows us to actually practice with today's crazy high prices of ammo.
When you were talking about shooting with no hearing protection it reminded me of yesterday. I have a small farm in the mountains and had some animals going after my ducks/chickens. I had JUST switched out my .22longs to .22 mag. Well I ran out the door and pulled the trigger..my ears rang for quite some time. I will not be doing that again. Switched back to .22 lr. NOT the mag ! Those things are loud ! Anyways, thank you for your videos and for farm protection .22 lr or shorts for me. Cheap and effective.
A 22 is a burst fire weapon. It can be fired multiple times while most shooters are recovering from recoil of larger calibers. A 22 can be fired into small groups, and shocking power of rapid shots increases hydrostatic damage geometrically . Is a 22 is all you have you are not defenseless . Another factor is tactics, if someone is coming at you with a weapon, move.
That is another factor at play, I don't see get talked about. How well can you hit a moving target with a high caliber round vs a 22lr round? I'd bet many would have more success with a 22lr when it comes to handgun cartridges.
try going to a gym and work on your limp wrists.
Should you use 22lr for personal protection? Yes but also no depending on the person. For someone like me who is a fairly large young adult male who shoots weekly, no. A larger round will more reliably stop a threat and with practice you can still get accurate and fast follow ups. For someone like my grandmother who is experience enough to carry a gun but doesn’t practice often, is quite small of stature, and struggles with the report and recoil of a 380acp, yes 22lr is now a decent choice.
I never feel inadequate with my:
👉🏽 H&R 922 2" 9 shot 22LR revolver.
Very well done Sam!
I was taught that if the aggresor is still coming towards me too keep shooting until they stop.That is why I carry a 22LR revolver with 9 rounds of CCI Velocitor ammo in it.
None of these guys have ever been in gun fights, these guys are entertaining lol!!!
I actually carry my SW22 Victory around the farm and use it for a Plan D in the house. I’ve even been known to keep it in the car sometimes. The only reason I do this is because I shoot really well with it, so I’m confident in shot placement and would rather use a .22 for simple tasks than waste a good 9mm or something else.
.22 is better than nothing. Most people that carry are never ever in their life going to be in a situation in which they need to use their firearm to defend themself. It really comes down more to keeping one's cool and if you have to do - to put rounds on target. .22 has the benefit of being small and easy to carry and in having low recoil which is going to aid in keeping on target - the trade off is that its not punchy like the bigger calibers. I wouldn't recommend it as a carry gun if you have anything bigger. I think the real issue is to not be put in a situation in which you may need to use your gun. Of course you can't control other people and the stupid things they do. That said one of my "home defense" guns is a Ruger 10/22 with two 25 round mags - so that would be 50 aimed rounds of .22 - which I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd ever need that - but you never know. My first choice in defending my home though is my .12 gauge with #4 buck.
Ruger 10/22's are very common. 200 foot pounds of energy, 10 quick rounds. Home defence, highly workable, no recoil, folding stock. Stopping power of 5 plus rounds in the chest excellent real world outcome.
Reaching with the ft lbs but alrighty. How do you know of the outcome of said 5 shots? I think multiple rounds in the same spot are great, but i call cap on that “real world outcome”
@tyler will Check out the ballistics of cci stingers.
Marshall and Sanow as I recall set the 22lr closer to 55%. This was based essentially on the observation that most people just stop fighting. The Ellofritz study as I recall lumped .22 long rifle, longs and shorts from pistols and rifles together. One other issue: we don't have enough shootings with the new generation of rounds to determine the effectiveness of rounds like .22lr Punch, and Silvertips.
Spot on!
Pretty fair comparison, rag on .22 all you want,. Personally, I wouldn't want to get hit by anything.
Given how I cary and don't care for a lot of weight, the 38Spl+P is my favorite self defense load. The gun I carry it in is light and reliable. While I could go with 357 Magnum, it really is a bit much to handle in that gun. As far as the Bobcat goes in 22LR, it's a lot of fun. But if it has a hiccup, that can take too long to clear because there is no extractor. And you're not guaranteed to be able to put all shots into the face. Sometimes center of mass is all you get. Given the single action pull on the Bobcat, you can empty it very quickly. The question is, is eight enough? In the 38, five is usually enough.
Good video. Also, a bunch of interesting comments. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Thank you, take care.
.22 LR from a lengthy barrel will basically stab a hole similar to those made by a spike prison shank , into the heart , lungs, or brain . If a gun can stab You like a prison shank at ten yards : It’s lethal enough .
From a lengthy barrel it can crack a skull in half. Watch garand thumbs video
@@DJ_NOCTURNAL16 inch barrel 22lr rifle good for self defense?
It's going to encourage the bad guy to find an emergency room quickly. Not to mention multiple shots in VERY quick succession.
My dad kept an old 22 single action revolver with a 6' barrel by his chair where he slept. It wouldn't be my first choice of gun, but I would never want to be on the business end of one either.
9++ times out of 10, when gun shots ring out, people start fleeing. They don't stand around asking what caliber it is.
Let's start from the other end. Who would argue that the .22 LR is ineffective in self defense? It might not be as hard hitting as more powerful rounds, but hits from .22 LR cannot be ignored.
some people would legit think this lol. In this day and age there's no excuse for ignorance like that especially with entertainment like videos showing the truth. Now back in the 80's and my little buddies saying .22 bounces off skin, well back then sure, no way to know, but now days no one should be so ignorant to simple ballistics like that.
You would say the same thing if you were hit by my 1200 fps .177 pellet gun. Still not a good choice for self defense.
When the shooting starts only a stupid person would hang around. Effective shot placement even in a heated situation can end a threat. A .22 in the face or head can be as effective as a 9mm
@@nathanlambshead4778 what about a high power air rifle like a hatsan blitz 30 cal
@@D20034 What about it? and how does that relate to what I said?
@4:13 I was just going to say can't you get off multiple rounds quicker and more accurate for some people with a 22lr semi auto because the lack of recoil?
I recently found a Smith and Wesson 22 model 617. Been putting tons of rounds through it on my outdoor range. It's an absolute blast to shoot and great overall gun.
I would love to own one!
I have a lot of fun with the 6" model 17 (K22 masterpiece, previously), pre lock era. Wish it held 8 rounds but whatev.
Not too long ago I was looking to buy one , cool but high price I ended up with an As New safe queen Ruger MKII blue 6 7/8" for 4 bills it's very acc & fun
I have one too , and it’s a blast and extremely accurate
22 would not be my choice for ccw if I had other options but if it’s all I had I would carry it. I would feel good using it for home defense out of a rifle and I know you were testing that ammo for a reason but for self defense there is better ammo that will penetrate deeper. We also have to remember that most 22lr is not made for self defense but for varmits or just plinking. Thanks for the video Sam ……very well done 👍👍.
Thank you
It is shot placement & how tough your opponent is. In 2008 Skokie , IL PO chased a bank robber onto a residential street. Officer Gamins hit the robber 17 times with a .45. Between the 2 over 50 shots exchanged. The officer was able to end it with a few head shots. He thankfully wasn't hit. The robber was described about 6 foot and lanky. Not on drugs. Officer switched to 9mm. This was not your typical civilian shoot & disengage shooting. I'm not saying .22 isnt good. The podcast is very captivating. Active Self Protection. You do a great job Sam.
We are seeing. 22lr like the Punch, Silvertip and others designed specifically for self defense.
@@ftdefiance1 Yes and those are some of the ones I was thinking about when I suggested there were better ammo options for self defense with deeper penetration.
@@YellowHammer26
The sound was surprising to me too. I accidentally shot one shot of 380 without ear pro and I did not notice a ringing in my ears either. One time I blew up a bicycle tube when I was learning to be a bike mechanic and that was loud. My ears were ringing and I was rather dazed, not knowing what happened.
I had to put down a car hit deer , 30 ft from a 5.5" Ruger auto & a Golden Bullet right between the eyes = instant lights out , 1 shot . A 22Lr is as good as you are , the Ruger is very acc .
Thanks for the clear thoughts well presented.
My son has a 22lr pistol in his room. He is not afraid of it and can shoot it acurately. Against a large attacker (300+ lbs), I warned him he might have to go for the head. I worry a little less with him having it. There are plenty of instances where multiple shots center mass with 9mm to 00 buck doesn't just drop the attacker.
As the old saying goes "I would rather hit them with a 22 than miss them with a 45". That being said I personally carry 357 Sig or 45 ACP
As for me, I don't think I'll be doing any shooting without ear protection. I already suffer from tinnitus, in both ears. But given that I would not have time to put on ear protection in a real life situation, .22LR makes even more sense, all the gun experts notwithstanding.
.22 Mag is what I would use over the LR if given the choice.
Enjoyed your presentation. Liked your display/explanation of what you were going to do. Very good camera work. Reasonable discussion.
I practice 1x per mo for abt 1 hr. Use 22lr for abt 30 mins. Then 9mm. Usually finish at 25 yds. Use both calibers. Can shoot faster & tighter groups with 22lr. Both pistols abt 4" barrels.
EDC is 4" 9mm. Always pocket carry a light wgt 22 mag dbl action revolver. Especially at gas stations & convenience stores. Think speed is maybe most important.
Recommend older Lucky Gunner video. Comments by two Federal ammo designers abt caliber debate.
One thing I can do with a .22lr is shoot it in my basement using Aguila Colibri ammo with no powder in it, a primer-only round. Easy to make a backstop, and I use revolvers... practice point shooting a lot with small revolvers. Getting good at it, even with NAA minis. The ammo won't cycle a semiauto though, so sad too bad. Wish it would, but the revolvers are still a heckuva lot of fun.
I used to shoot that stuff all the time. Believe it or not, I used to have a 4" Taurus 94 and shot a 15" propane tank I setup from 230 yards like 5 times in a row. I was aiming at the horizon lol, was one of those fluke things I could never do again. I used to shoot them in a house I used to live in that was slightly less rural than where I shoot my videos. It wasn't illegal, against township ordinance or anything, I just really preferred the colibri stuff in my backyard to not freak out my neighbors. Used either colibri or similar ammo here lol ruclips.net/video/u1bqzFgnB9I/видео.html
I normally would not choose a .22 LR for personal defense. I do however own a Ruger Mark IV target pistol with 2-10 round magazines. This pistol is very accurate out to 50 yards and is very reliable!! I would have no issue choosing this pistol as a quick back up self defense weapon if ever needed.
I carry a Bobcat often when hiking, walking the dog, running out to get gas, etc., i just drop it and a few magazines in my pocket. I sometimes even carry two mouse guns, It’s very easy. They weigh nothing. I feel fine with it. I also carry a NAA Guardian, a Colt Vest Pocket in 25ACP, and a 22 magnum Hi Standard Derringer a lot. No one knows what they are getting shot with. No one waits around to see what they are getting shot with. No one wants holes they weren’t born with. I have seen quoted numbers all over the place to the point of nonsensical. No one is shooting anyone with one shot. So, that data is pointless. Plus, it is much easier to fire multiple rounds with a 22 or a 32. Although, there is no doubt that a 357 is the king, few people carry one these days. I do sometimes, in several different configurations, as well as 45s, 9s, and 38 Supers, depending on where I am going, weather, activities, manner of dress, etc., . But, I don’t carry a mouse gun only to contend with drug addicted ninja zombies that come in bunches, I use them for snakes, raccoons, weasels, and other pest. The only downside to me, is that they are not center fire. So, I usually advise my daughters to carry 25s, 380s or 32s. I think 32s and 380s are a wonderful compromise. One daughter will only carry a 22. She loves it. She hikes all the time with it and a large canister of bear spray. Firing inside a house or inside a car, with a 9mm will wake you up too. I have to say that I took my girlfriend, who will only carry a 40, and hates 22s, even calling them pea shooters, out to shoot a 22 Bobcat. She loved it. She also felt much more confident in its ability. She still will carry her 40, but sometimes the way she needs to dress, it just isn’t possible, so this gives her an option. She also wants to carry one while she is working on her property. She now sees their utility value, which to me, is quite considerable. We used Velocitors, stingers, and the Federal Punch. One her 3rd shot, her thumb dragged on the slide, it’s a little pistol, and the slide didn’t fully seat, but once she knew where to hold her support hand, There were no failures of any kind. She could also get easy hits with one hand. She now claims that pistol and wants one in 25ACP as well. Ha! They are great little calibers and I hope the ammo manufacturers give them the attention they need to make the mouse guns: 22s, 25, 32, and 380s, as powerful and as reliable as they can be. At one time they were some of the best selling pistols in the world. They certainly have their place. Thanks for the video
@@bobjones-bt9bh not sure what you are saying, but a 25 ACP will ruin your day and change your life forever, as will the other calibers mentioned.
Here we go again! Why not use some of the latest ammo specifically designed for both short barrels and self defense? Federal punch 22lr, Winchester silver tip or even Winchester wildcat optimized for semi autos.
CCI Velocitor gets 13-15" of penetration out of 2-4" barrels.
I agree every one doing these comparison test use the olds weakest 22lr round they can find instead of using the good stuff i.e supermaximum flat nose or hp federal punch cci velocitors stingers or aguila interceptor flat nose or HP all very reliable and effective
I would say the 22lr is ok, bare minimum, but usable with good shot placement. Very economical. Better than 25acp.
Seems like ya normally want the muzzle energy to be at least twice the weight of the target. 150pound target 300 muzzle energy. 350 pound deer, 700 pounds energy for a good hunt. But if just one firearm and tight budget then 22lr rifle is best.
Any gun is better than no gun when it comes to self defense.
With the .22lr cartridge it's all about shot placement, and not about stopping power.
While shot placement is more important, I would say there's a lot more to it than it being all about shot placement. Unlike jacketed bullets, .22 LR bullets are like marshmallows. What jacketed bullets do like bust ribs and skulls, a .22 LR has a much more difficult time doing. That means that shot placement requires even more precision than centerfire, and even then you still hear stories (not typically self defense, rather murder attempts) where someone was shot in the head with a .22, and either the bullet skipped off the skull, or went through the brain and the person survived, etc.
Hey Sam, I would love to see how the same brand and weight compares. Hornady’s 110 NORMAL pressure vs the +P you are using today. Thank you Sir.
Rule number one for any gun fight: Have a gun.
To be fair with 22lr and penetration. Most people will carry velocitor, stinger or punch. Also people are getting 15 round capacity weapons. Ruger lcpii with wingman + 4 mag base plates total 15 rounds in 13 ounce carry package, kel tec p17 16 rounds in 15 ounce carry, lcr 8 rounds uber reliable 15 ounce carry.
Punch might do well as I recall getting decent penetration, if I recall stingers didn't do much different than bulk ammo. My thought is a good performing reliable bulk ammo might be the way to go, but it depends on the person. I would say probably only 10% of gun people are like us where we are particular about carry ammo. The vast majority do seem to carry just whatever is cheapest, so it's good to see the regular stuff tested.
@@GunSam look at police captures of firearms a HIGH majority have mixed ammo in them often crappy stuff of wrong caliber or just useless OLD ammo with bizarre historys....
Being a person of large girth, I need to wear a belt tightly to hold up my pants. This tightness precludes the use of an IWB holster. So in the summer, when I cannot wear a jacket, I am relegated to open carry on the belt or else concealed carry in a pocket. So when dressed lightly in sport shorts, or engaging in some activities, I am relegated to a pocket pistol. For ease of carry and concealment, I go with a .25 acp.
Have you tried the belt under the belly? Suspenders can also hold your pants. Give them a try.
@@onpsxmember -- I have tired several variations. IWB still does not work. Still need a belt to hang the holster from, and suspender on the outside interferes with the draw. OWB, with suspender *behind* the holster (I.e., between the belt and the holster ) provides much more stable support and does not interfere with the ability to draw. Thanks for the thought and suggestion anyway.
Use .22lr ammo known to penetrate enough for the test, 13-15" out of 2-4" barrels.
CCI Velocitor, Federal Punch both meet the FBI standard.
Unless your trying to make it look unacceptable.
I agree with you it seems most people doing these comparison test want to down play 22lr using the weaker loads for self defense applications 22lr is worthy of more appreciation if people use the to dispatch hogs and cows from a rifle and pistol what in the world they think it will do to a person our skin and bones aren't denser or tougher than those animals.
The old saying that 22 is better than A-sharp stick
Female here, new to guns. I have a Springfield Hellcat 9mm, Smith and Wesson M&P .22 compact, and a Raven .25… i love them all and wish i could carry them all at the same time 😂but i carry the .22 daily
Suggestion for next video: compare rifle results (e.g. Ruger 10/22). If I have a sidearm choice it isn't going to be a .22, but for home defense it is so easy to grab the ol' Ruger and fire away. I can get off multiple and very accurate .22 in the same time I can get off a single shot of 12 guage... just sayin'
Been having this very discussion with my sister who has severe carpal tunnel and wants a 22 for self defense
The Ruger LCR 8 shot 22lr revolver is excellent.
@@Isaac556x45 The 22 is one of the oldest still used rounds dating back to before the civil war and it can kill. However, the real problem is reliability. Rimfire ammo is less reliable and jams more frequently than centerfire ammo. For everyday carry size, weight, reliability and the operator's concerns must be taken into account to insure the weapon will be carried regularly. You might want to take your sister to a range and rent a 32 for her to try. It is more reliable than a 22 but has light recoil. Stay away from the 25 ACP. I've seen them fail way too often.
@@Isaac556x45 something along this line was my suggestion if it had to be 22, but she wants the ruger mk4
@@charlesashworth6805 If she is willing to carry a full size gun like that, it is not a bad option, probably the most reliable semi auto 22 pistol available.
The first handgun I purchased to carry is a Taurus GX4 (9mm), but the small frame and light weight make it hard for me to quickly and accurately place follow up shots, so I recently switched to carrying my Kel-Tec P17. I can accurately place many more rounds on target in the same amount of time compared to my GX4, and with the Aguila Interceptor solid point I still get just over 100 ft/lbs of energy out of the 3.8 inch barrel, and it meets the FBI minimum penetration. Seventeen of those .22s on target is better than a few 9mm in my opinion. For pocket carry I have a DB380, but that's only because I don't like any of the pocket 22s.
You haven't discussed the major issue with .22 ammo: reliability.
Misfires and failures to feed are common with .22 ammo, and that, to me, is its major drawback.
I would only carry .22 for self defense in a revolver
Agreed
it is an it also isn't an issue. What I mean, is I have seen cheap handguns have misfires with .22 LR, but I have also seen decent quality .22's run 1,000 rounds at a time with no misfires like the Ruger 22/45 I used to have. Also revolvers are reliable. My main point here was terminal ballistics, exterior ballistics. I am not saying your point is not valid, I just sort of felt like most people know rimfire can be questionable. It's sort of like saying a revolver loses power out a cylinder gap. It is what is is, rimfire is a tad less reliable, but it sort of goes into a general handgun thing where you need to test your own carry ammo for reliability.
The Israeli Mossad used 22s , ammunition was usually Eley , double primed , they don’t seem to have any problems . They mainly used Beretta Jaguars. I had one , as well as the steel frame later model 70s. Both deadly accurate and reliable. I also have two US made Walther TPH 22s. Small accurate. No misfires . The older one seems to like CCI stingers, and the later one likes Winchester Wildcats and CCI mini Mags.
bro it’s 2023 🤣 not 1934, modern rimfire cartridges are extremely reliable so your argument is stupid lol
Actually mis fires are very very rare
5:37 my concern look how tiny it is. Im not saying the bullet should be bigger but i do believe the feature makes good points about an accuracy falicy with this gun. Tiny does not mean accurate.
He discusses ear ringing which may be incredibly important. If its dark and you missed. Now you flash banged yourself:blind and deaf. For home defense the noise concept is worth making its own video.
A .22 is better than nothing in hand and if your able to hit a vital organ or a bone area I know it will cause the perp to run or drop but I would rather have a .22 than nothing just like then.380 they claim it won’t be useful but I’ve seen videos of self defense and a .380 did. Dam good job stopping the threat but again to each his own at the end of the day it also comes down to control and hitting your mark
The Real Question: What if you had a light-weight 16-round capacity 22lr semi-auto shooting Federal Punch or CCI Velocitor (which have reliable 12+ inch penetration in gel tests) that hasn't had a failure in 1,000 rounds vs. a S&W 642 or 442 (with 5 rounds shooting your favorite brand of .38). Which would you choose and carry? Placing a dozen or more 22lr rounds in the target zones in the same amount of time as I could shoot 5 rounds (if I get lucky) of the .38 sounds to me like a better chance of hitting the critical body parts.
Personally I would rather have the .38. More rounds might increase your odds of stopping a threat, but the fact still remains that each shot has a low chance to stop the threat, and repeating that doesn't make the odds go up unless the odds were to kill the person. Like shot one 25% chance, shot 2 is also still 25%. With .38 Special+P it's up there where not only do the numbers say there's a good chance to stop a threat, but also there's a lot of reports of it working quite well especially with ammo like SWCHP "FBI load" type ammo. Then there's the legal issue, like okay I placed 2 shots center mass with a .38 Special, story adds up etc. But what if the story wasn't adding up in court, the the prosecutor would be like "the defendant shot him 10 times in the chest 5 in the head"....and the jury isn't going to know what a .22 is or isn't going to do. I'm not saying that I wouldn't use a .22 if it's all I had, I am just saying that relying on potentially having to use 16 rounds would make it seem like I was out for blood rather than defending myself.
@@GunSam A large part of me agrees with you, while the other part points out that I can't afford to get good at shooting a .38 with today's ammo prices and also points out that the recoil on a .38 revolver (or a compact 9mm for that matter) is a bitch compared to a 22. If I can practice 4x more with .22lr, price-wise, and there's a good chance I might be able to get the first shot (and a few more after that) in the target area under stress with a 22lr (let's say with an 8-shot S&W 43c or a Ruger LCR), do I just create a false sense of security if I carry a .38 instead of a .22 revolver? Both options have potentially significant trade-offs, it seems.
I have a featherweight S&W 422 semi-auto with a 6” barrel. I wonder how much better the .22lr would perform compared to the others with the extra running room? Never really thought of using it as a ccw, but it’s narrow and light and holds 10 rounds. It’s also a really fast shooter with outstanding accuracy. What do you think?
I had a break in and didnt have a real gun. I did have a aea hp plus semi auto pellet gun 30 cal (55-60fpe) and the guy that broke in had a 380 special. he was stopped lets just put it that way. I am sure the 22LR which is about the same would perform just fine. the air gun has 0 recoil even less than a 22 though so its very accurate and easy to stay on target. also not sure. I heard people saying the diablo pellet design was better at cutting into things at short distance than a conventional bullet not sure if its true or not. with that said. after the break in I went and got my License to carry here in MA which is not easy to get and got my self a 9mm hand gun because it has only medium recoil and has 300+fpe. I was seriously really worried the pellet gun was only gonna.piss the guy off. I only use it for medium sized game. raccons coyotes and felt it was woefully under powered. surprisingly it did lets say end the threat and the guy will never be doing B&Es again. that goes to show you having some kind of gun is better than having no kind of gun. even if its just a high powered pellet pistol.
got my tenitis in 1962, shot 4 rounds from Weatherby 300 magnum, no ear protection. been living with this for over 60 years.
I am a 68-year senior. I am of a small stature. I used to rely on unarmed martial arts in the younger days. But today, bones brittle, a lightweight .22 caliber would be a much better self-defense for me. The bigger ones might be more of a bothersome weight. Anyway, I read somewhere that even with this caliber, no one would like to be hit. And like the saying goes, "Better to have it...and not need it...than NOT to have it..and NEED it!"
Also more murders hits have come from 22cal any round?
I don't know if that's correct. Now homicides in general, yes as that term includes suicides.
22 cal. Was a fav of mafia hitnmen of the day is hit comment@@GunSam
For a Snubbie I think I would go with a .32. For a .22 I think I would prefer a 4" revolver. That said I think a 22 snub can be effective if used properly.
.22 snub nosed revolvers have plenty of power with the right rounds.
CCI Velocitor and Federal Punch both penetrate to 13-15" out of 2-4" barrels.
LCRx can get you 8 rounds and 3". That might be close enough?
For pocket carry, I think the LCPII with a spare mag might just be the ticket.
The best stopping power is the vital organ hit (heart/head). Whatever caliber you make those hits with is the best. The 22lr has very low recoil and is very cheap so you can train a lot more so you get very good with it. A missed shot or too late shot has zero stopping power.
Very well explained
No federal punch for this test?
I'll not say that the .22 rimfire is as effective as a .38Spl or a .357Mag. That would be a stupid thing to say of course. However, I've worked more than a few homicides where the victim was killed by a 22. Yet, one case where the victim was hit by 7 rounds from a 9mm, that was at the trial a month later to testify against his attacker. After decades of investigation, I've concluded that NOTHING is absolute.
I remember watching a crime show forever ago, two friends in Detroit running from gunfire, friend one pulls a .25 and shoots backwards without looking. Apparently one shot hit his friend and killed him. The friend with the .25 was never charged even though I don't think his gun was legal, but the guy shooting at them who never landed a shot was charged with murder for causing the event to unfold.
And I mean, a real show. Like the first 48 or something like that.
If it comes to a psychological stop of the attacker anything from a 22 short and up will do the trick. But if the attacker is determined to hurt, rob, or assault you, now you have to mechanically break them. Like bullets penetrating deep enough to reach the vital organs or bust bone like the pelvis, rib cage, or forearms. Considering that people living in the U.S are on the heavier side. Penetration is paramount.
My uncle was killed on a squirrel hunt by accident he got shot in the eye and died instantly from a .22lr out of a Henry lever gun
With the popularity of the P17 & TX-22 .. I wonder how the 22 would do with a 4 inch barrel
I like the 40 gr Lead with a 3.5 to 4 in h barrel.. P-17 .. light and dependable, also 16 +1
Of course you will get those results using the ammo choice you use but i can assure you the results will be completely different if you were running aguila supermaximum flat nose or HP and of course with those target rounds you use with a weak charge penetration and tissue disruption will be less do your test again and use aguila supermaximum and see what you think
I don't need to do the test. I have tested all those rounds, whether I have videos released for them or not. Yes they penetrate a tad better, but the point here was to use some average ammo. The average person isn't going to be using specialty ammo, so the test with regular old ammo needed to be done. Plus I have had more reliability issues straying away from typical power ammo.
@@GunSam Hey Sam good video !!
I have a .22 for self defense. I carry it when I do not feel like hauling around my .40 or .45
At 8:00 how does a chronograph measure energy not fps?
it doesn't. You have to take the bullet weight and do the math with the velocity. I don't know the actual equation so I use online ft lb energy calculators.
@@GunSam Thank you for the clarification
Great video with great info!
Good job!
In my opinion yes it is enough
I carry a LCP2 22 in basketball shorts on hot Arizona summer days. I like Federal punch and Agulia they have been consistent.
Gun Sam, I may be missing it, but could you link your sources for the stats, etc.? Thank you sir!
I always try shoot a round of most caliber without ear protection just so I kno what to expect in a defence situation when ur most likely not going have ears in
Interesting, but... For self- or home defense with a handgun, most experienced shooters primary choice would be a center fire firearm over a 22 lr However, the question you raised was "good enough".
The data, including yours, suggests that the 22 lr is probably "good enough". You cited Greg Ellifritz' data, but also said that a 22 lr would "stop" an assailant's act only 25% of the time. But Ellifritz reported that in 31% of events the 22lr did not stop the attacker - therefore it did so in 69% of cases, not 25% .
Other well-known events suggest that the 22lr effectiveness can be significant. Hinckley put three adult males to the ground and out of the fight, each with one shot, and President Reagan was severely wounded. The Israeli agent, Mordechai Rachamim killed one skyjacker who was wielding an AK 47, and wounded/captured 2 others, using a Beretta 22 lr pistol, then pretty much repeated that feat several years later.
Personally, for self or home defense I have selected a larger caliber handgun. But for those who for their own reasons favor the 22 lr I will not dismiss them with the epithet it will only "piss off" an aggressor. However, I would suggest a pistol with at least a 4 or 5 inch barrel, or better yet a semi auto rifle such as the Ruger 10 22, as the ballistics from a rifle are significantly better (see Paul Harrell's "meat test" video with 22 lr rifles).
The Greg Ellifritz study does show a .22 fails to stop 31% of the time, but it also says one shot stop is coincidentally also 31%. Actually incapacitated to head or torso shot is 60%. Those are combined, common sense 60% is mostly head shots. The accuracy would be random, torso, leg, head, arm shots all combined 31% one shot stop percent.
Awesome GSam《☆》Good testing today Brother👍🍺🍕That reminds me I've got some old ammo I need to shoot up😁The boxes of Win 9mm Ranger T +P looked pretty old when I bought them from a Gun show 20 years ago. It's Cool of you to test the various Calibers without earmuffs. It would be unusual if a self defense shooter was wearing hearing protection eh🖖😎☮
Thanks. I have some of the Ranger T in 127+P+ laying around. I think I tested a few in the past, looking forward to doing it again someday.