I'd also throw into the ring Mel's departure. I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, the stated reasons for her leaving are abrupt and arbitrary (as was kinda standard in the latter half of Classic Who, with a few exceptions like Tegan). On quite the other hand, the scene between Mel and Seven where they say goodbye is such a terrific highlight of both of their acting talents. This is especially heartfelt since that speech was put into the script at McCoy's insistence when he realized Bonnie was leaving. That was the dialogue he had auditioned with and he felt that it worked well for this occasion.
This is another one that I worked on. Stephen and I were responsible for the Kanes melting head sequence (which the press gave us a lot of flack for for being too graphic even though we were told to use no red colours in it) as well as supplying various masks for the 'pound shop' cantina scene. Loved Edward Peel in this as he was so, so damn good. On set he had terrific presence. Patricia Quinn was in a bit of a mood If I remember correctly. I suspect she thought the whole thing was beneath her. And she was probably right. lol Not a great story by any means, but I have some happy memories from being on the studio floor.
I haven't seen Dragonfire since it was broadcast when I was 9 years old. All these years later that scene is one that still remains in my mind when I think about 'scary Doctor Who moments'. The old cliché of hiding behind the sofa when the Daleks approached, nope, for me it was hiding behind a cushion when the face melted off and waiting for my brother to give me the all clear when it was over! Terrifying! 😱 So I guess.... thank you for that -trauma- enduring memory but also well done, it was supremely effective.
Its just so direct and messy death, that it sticks with you. By that point its like the show has this gory death budget that had to be spent. Had the shots of the body collapsing worked that might of taken the edge off.
The novel apparently explains that the crevasse the Doctor hangs over is a narrow one between the wall and the floor of ice (not exactly shown clearly in the art) and the Doctor couldn't see it from the gantry. Later on, Ace hangs a rope ladder over the edge and everyone comes and goes safely.
I grew up in the 90s watching classic who and hand on heart, the melting face from Dragonfire was THE scariest moment in the whole of Doctor Who to me as a child. This story is a bit of a mixed bag like you say but I can enjoy it because I know from Remembrance onwards the McCoy era develops and becomes seriously good. Having rewatched a lot of it I don't think Season 24 is as bad as everyone says.
This has never been a big hit for me but is my second fave of its season, and it definitely gets points for introducing Ace. Glitz is an entirely reprehensible person but Selby is just so darn charming you can't help but like him anyway, he's wonderfully awful in the previous season too. And the cliffhanging cliffhanger is my second favourite baffling cliffhanger in the whole show, beaten only by Death To The Daleks part three and the floor of doom.
Which is your favourite of that season? Series 24 holds an odd fascination for me, and I can see the good now in stories such as Paradise Towers which seemed cringe-inducing at the time.
@@ianfryer8386 Oh Paradise Towers, hands down, the only story that season that I properly love, so glad it seems to finally be getting re-evaluated with the recent blu-ray release. It's definitely not the strongest season, but still a lot of fun and charming stuff in there.
I was 13 when this was broadcast originally so you can only imagine how much I loved it. It’s still reasonably rewatchable and has stood the test of time.
I absolutely love dragon fire it is one of my favourite seventh doctor story i watched it all the way through in 2022 i watched it on dvd i brought it from the charity shop in Sherwood Nottingham as you can tell i am British and from Nottingham England
Thank you, that was a really interesting perspective. Back when season 24 was first shown it was the favourite episode of the series for a lot of us, in part because it actually felt like a Doctor Who story after what seemed like two years of chaos. Props also to Edward Peel for a great performance as the villain, who really gave the story a lift. After a shockingly bad start, season 24 ended on a note of hope, though nobody was prepared for how good Remembrance of the Daleks felt when we saw it the following year.
I have fun with this, tho I tried to start a newbie to classic who with this cause she liked the idea of Ace and she's introduced in this. Bad idea- start with Remembrance.
The question posed by the Doctor to the guard was lifted directly from a published thesis called Doctor Who: The Unfolding Text. I've certainly never read it, and I doubt most people have, so it serves as a bit of a weird in-joke. It may be in the novelisation of this story, or in a later novel, but it's stated that Ace and Glitz - how can I put this? - have a past. As delicately as I can put it, he took her cherry. Which raises loads of questions which I'm not prepared to even begin tackling. On the subject of Kane's death, I remember watching it at the time. I think I'd just turned 12, and was still recuperating from a nasty accident I had a few months earlier. It was a cool shot, certainly, but it was very near the knuckle. I think I just about coped.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks Well, exactly. Thinking about it, it's probably from one of novel ranges of the '90s. There was certainly some troubling developments during those. One in particular is Compassion, the human (female) TARDIS. According to Elizabeth Sandifer's wonderful blog, Tardis Eruditorum, her treatment in the novels was tantamount to abusive at times!
"Doctor Who: The Unfolding Text" - Blast from the past! I had and read that in my pre-internet teen years. In those days I bought up any books I could find about the production of Who. TUT was probably the first time I encountered in-depth critical writing about media. It was certainly a drastic shift from the glossy nostalgia-tinged books from the BBC. Dragonfire was IIRC the only time Glitz is depicted as semi-sympathetic. Even in Mysterious Planet he was rather sleazy. So I never for a moment bought Mel - Champion of Pease Pottage - deciding to throw her lot in with _that guy._
@@andrewbowman4611 - Compassion was an interesting character, and while she went through a lot of horror, that didn't seem gratuitous or uncritical at the time. The "time war" depicted in the Virgin novels was more nuanced and interesting than what we got on TV. The timelords were fighting a foe they could neither understand nor identify (NOT the Daleks), and those stories showed how the timelords were hypocritical in how they valued life - including forced regenerations of timelords (sometimes into literal monsters) as well as force-breeding of war TARDISes. Thanks for mentioning Sandifer and her blog, it will be interesting to get another critical perspective on these stories I read about ten years ago. The extended media often has more to think about, but fewer people familiar to discuss it with.
@@voltijuice8576 Having only read a handful of Eighth Doctor novels, none of which featured Compassion, I am having to rely on second hand information regarding her. So if my characterisation's a tad sketchy, I can only apologise. Also, I agree Sandifer's blog is a superb piece of work which deserves further investigation from Doctor Who fans. A strange companion piece to Neil and Sue Perryman's Wife in Space blog, I think.
Glitz is something of a Deadpool kind of character. A hilarious for the most part psychopathic pirate. One thing... He hasn't changed since trial of a timelord.
Was waiting for your take on the cliffhanger. Certainly unique. I remember stubagful reviewed it a while back and someone who did the effects for kane's death actually commented which was interesting
That was Silver1 , if you want effects details then you have to hunt down a copy Ace! The inside story of an end of an era, it's half Sophie Aldred and half Mike Tucker, so there's a lot of effects details.
There is a lot of ignoring villains misdeeds in classic Who. I remember a story where a friend of the Doctor allows an entire space station crew to be murdered, kidnaps the Doctor, attempts to dissect him and later in another episode shakes his hand and the Doctor says, "Good old XXX"
The problem with Glitz selling his crew is that originally he was a different character. Apparently, Nathan-Turner noticed that the character had a lot of similarities to Glitz, so he just decided to bring Glitz back since he'd been a fun character before. But they didn't bother to rewrite the backstory about the crew. The sad thing is it could've worked out better if they'd just rewritten it to say that Glitz mistakenly believed he was simply hiring out the crew for one job, and didn't know they were getting enslaved and having their memories wiped. I had no idea that was Magenta! I knew she looked familiar. I just figured I'd seen her in an episode of some other British show somewhere.
The problem with Glitz is that Bob Holmes originally wrote him basically as a Gotham villain- fun to be around but definitely a psychopath. Ever since then they tried to have him be more bumbling and roguish but it doesn't quite pull together. I like the escalating stakes in classic who. Tbh it happens in new who as well. In Dalek, the Dr talks about what happens if the Dalek escapes the base; "Nearest town? Population? All Dead?" I can't tell for certain as I've not finished it but apparently, Cartmell pulled from Watchmen when writing Mel's departure. He was a big Alan Moore fan, invited to write for the show I believe.
I've always been of the opinion that the end villain melting was more graphic than the similar scene from Raiders of the Lost Arc - no blood, but the way his jaw falls off I found really disturbing as a child in a way that Raiders wasn't. Also you made no mention of Mels leaving scene - really dubious motivation for her leaving & you really have to wonder about her ultimate fate given the mentioned "selling crew into slavery" behavioural issue of who she leaves with - but McCoy's speech is really nice, better companions had much worse / more abrupt / less heartfelt goodbyes than Mel during Classic Who - a better goodbye than she probably deserved. Only other point is that I really like McCoy's doctor & especially when teamed up with Ace - those two really just instantly click and make it feel like a natural pairing from the off - especially when Ace starts calling him "Professor", just fits somehow, even though it's wrong. That pretty much sums up McCoy's era for me - lot's you can poke hole's in and laugh at, or that makes no sense, but something about it still works, the chemistry between the characters makes it enjoyable to watch and makes me willing to overlook a lot of nonsense - starting with this episode.
Based on the story, I believe the intention of the cliffhanger was the Doctor was supposed to climb down the ice and reach a point where he runs out of foot holds, tries to reach using his umbrella but gets stuck. Hanging off the rail at the top under sells his intention.
I love this silly episode. Ace & 7 are my favorites. I bet you’ve mentioned elsewhere but this is a good place to say Ace’s given name is Dorothy and her trip to Iceworld in the timestorm is a Wizard of Oz analog.
Dragonfire is a fun episode, definitely. I really enjoy how easily Mel and Ace bonded, and I'm kind of sad they didn't get to go on adventures together. Tony Selby as Glitz is on form. I liked him in Mysterious Planet, when he had his sidekick Dibber, and in the Ultimate Foe (he tops and tails the Trial season) as a witness and 'helper' for various characters. The latter episode is where he met Mel - Peri was still around for Mysterious Planet, and she was so good there! 7 and Ace are my favorite TARDIS team, so I cut a lot of slack to the inconsistencies and gaffes in episodes featuring them. I will say, though, stay away from the 90s novels - the New Adventures - if you want to keep your opinion of Glitz as-is. The writing in those novels went grimdark, and there's something else Glitz does that is absolutely atrocious.
Which classic who cliffhanger is more infamous: 7th Doctor dangling off a cliff in one of these episodes or "Stop, don't move!" from Death to the Daleks?
His other appearence is in six episode of Season Twenty-three's trial of a Time Lord. He's in the Opening Story-The Mysterious Planet and the Concluding two Episodes which are referred to as the Ultimate Foe. Honestly, the entire season is OK at best. Mysterious Planet is OK if only because Bob Holmes wrote it. But outside of that it is nothing to write home about.
The current explanation (or excuse) for THAT cliffhanger is that the Doctor was trying to get onto the ledge but underestimated how far down it was and even if thought it was big enough to stand on he'd probably lose balance if he just dropped right onto it. Sure that's technically true, but the whole thing is so bizarrely executed it's kinda trippy and weird... and I like it!
@@CouncilofGeeks i dunno, That's just what was said.🤷♂️ Also, While I remember, they did an interview for the S24 set with Patricia Quinn at her mansion. Shes got her lips on display all over the place, she's even got them on a massive cushion. I just love the boldness. She's awesome.
i saw a post once that was along the lines of "there is no bad doctor who. any episode you think is bad is actually just camp, and the fact that you think it's bad is the point", and like... yeah: Dragonfire
I haven't seen it in years, but I remember finding it...confusing. I never understood how Ace was suddenly on this world. It's still one of the better stories of McCoy's era, if only for the introduction of Ace.
great review. point of intrest glitz was appeared during the 6th doctors era and the man playing the doctor was Collin baker not tom, you erroneously said tom
Dragonfire: When Doctor Who copied the same graphic ending from Raiders of the Lost Ark... Don't think I didn't recognize that Face Melting Dragonfire...
Glad you did, because when we we given the brief It's what I cited as being what we were going to attempt, although ours was a 'one take only' affair and cost miles less then the version on Raiders of course. lol
It's an oddball for sure. It's above average for it's season but it's not a great season. Mel leaving and Ace being here really helps, and it has a few interesting ideas, so I'd say it's slightly below average, but worth watching all the same.
It's probably the second worst of the season, but it is a very fun watch. People give Chibs sh*t for making the Morbius doctors canon (deserved), but Moff went and fixed this cliffhanger in Name of the Doctor. The nerd impulse to "fix" classic who is strong in the showrunners.
Lol I saw the name and was like “wait isn’t that the one where ace runs of with some random girl and has like a ten minute sapphic fling… and like King Arthur is there too for some reason” Edit: nah i guess that’s a different one
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I'd also throw into the ring Mel's departure. I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, the stated reasons for her leaving are abrupt and arbitrary (as was kinda standard in the latter half of Classic Who, with a few exceptions like Tegan). On quite the other hand, the scene between Mel and Seven where they say goodbye is such a terrific highlight of both of their acting talents. This is especially heartfelt since that speech was put into the script at McCoy's insistence when he realized Bonnie was leaving. That was the dialogue he had auditioned with and he felt that it worked well for this occasion.
Director: "Oh god, Sylvestor! We need a cliffhanger ending!"
McCoy: "On it!"
This is another one that I worked on. Stephen and I were responsible for the Kanes melting head sequence (which the press gave us a lot of flack for for being too graphic even though we were told to use no red colours in it) as well as supplying various masks for the 'pound shop' cantina scene. Loved Edward Peel in this as he was so, so damn good. On set he had terrific presence. Patricia Quinn was in a bit of a mood If I remember correctly. I suspect she thought the whole thing was beneath her. And she was probably right. lol Not a great story by any means, but I have some happy memories from being on the studio floor.
I haven't seen Dragonfire since it was broadcast when I was 9 years old. All these years later that scene is one that still remains in my mind when I think about 'scary Doctor Who moments'. The old cliché of hiding behind the sofa when the Daleks approached, nope, for me it was hiding behind a cushion when the face melted off and waiting for my brother to give me the all clear when it was over! Terrifying! 😱 So I guess.... thank you for that -trauma- enduring memory but also well done, it was supremely effective.
@@hotdog1214 LOL Well then my job here is done. Seriously though glad you liked it. :)
Its just so direct and messy death, that it sticks with you.
By that point its like the show has this gory death budget that had to be spent.
Had the shots of the body collapsing worked that might of taken the edge off.
One of my formative traumatic media experiences, thanks :)
I loved the Doctor's triumphant cry of "An existentialist!" It will always live in my memory.
The novel apparently explains that the crevasse the Doctor hangs over is a narrow one between the wall and the floor of ice (not exactly shown clearly in the art) and the Doctor couldn't see it from the gantry. Later on, Ace hangs a rope ladder over the edge and everyone comes and goes safely.
I grew up in the 90s watching classic who and hand on heart, the melting face from Dragonfire was THE scariest moment in the whole of Doctor Who to me as a child. This story is a bit of a mixed bag like you say but I can enjoy it because I know from Remembrance onwards the McCoy era develops and becomes seriously good. Having rewatched a lot of it I don't think Season 24 is as bad as everyone says.
This has never been a big hit for me but is my second fave of its season, and it definitely gets points for introducing Ace. Glitz is an entirely reprehensible person but Selby is just so darn charming you can't help but like him anyway, he's wonderfully awful in the previous season too. And the cliffhanging cliffhanger is my second favourite baffling cliffhanger in the whole show, beaten only by Death To The Daleks part three and the floor of doom.
Which is your favourite of that season? Series 24 holds an odd fascination for me, and I can see the good now in stories such as Paradise Towers which seemed cringe-inducing at the time.
@@ianfryer8386 Oh Paradise Towers, hands down, the only story that season that I properly love, so glad it seems to finally be getting re-evaluated with the recent blu-ray release. It's definitely not the strongest season, but still a lot of fun and charming stuff in there.
I was 13 when this was broadcast originally so you can only imagine how much I loved it. It’s still reasonably rewatchable and has stood the test of time.
I absolutely love dragon fire it is one of my favourite seventh doctor story i watched it all the way through in 2022 i watched it on dvd i brought it from the charity shop in Sherwood Nottingham as you can tell i am British and from Nottingham England
Thank you, that was a really interesting perspective. Back when season 24 was first shown it was the favourite episode of the series for a lot of us, in part because it actually felt like a Doctor Who story after what seemed like two years of chaos. Props also to Edward Peel for a great performance as the villain, who really gave the story a lift. After a shockingly bad start, season 24 ended on a note of hope, though nobody was prepared for how good Remembrance of the Daleks felt when we saw it the following year.
The cliffhanger is hilarious although dumb. Entertaining review as always!
Surprised you didn't mention the "ice statue". Which, even for budget challenged classic Who, is just Woof!
Clara helped the doctor get off the cliff.. This iscene was shown in the name of the doctor.
That bit with the guard sounds awesome! I would love to talk philosophy with The Doctor!
I have fun with this, tho I tried to start a newbie to classic who with this cause she liked the idea of Ace and she's introduced in this. Bad idea- start with Remembrance.
Yay for Ace and her legendary baseball bat!
The question posed by the Doctor to the guard was lifted directly from a published thesis called Doctor Who: The Unfolding Text. I've certainly never read it, and I doubt most people have, so it serves as a bit of a weird in-joke.
It may be in the novelisation of this story, or in a later novel, but it's stated that Ace and Glitz - how can I put this? - have a past. As delicately as I can put it, he took her cherry. Which raises loads of questions which I'm not prepared to even begin tackling.
On the subject of Kane's death, I remember watching it at the time. I think I'd just turned 12, and was still recuperating from a nasty accident I had a few months earlier. It was a cool shot, certainly, but it was very near the knuckle. I think I just about coped.
Given that she’s 16 at the time of this story, all I can say about that implication is EW!!!!!
@@BreakRoomofGeeks Well, exactly. Thinking about it, it's probably from one of novel ranges of the '90s. There was certainly some troubling developments during those. One in particular is Compassion, the human (female) TARDIS. According to Elizabeth Sandifer's wonderful blog, Tardis Eruditorum, her treatment in the novels was tantamount to abusive at times!
"Doctor Who: The Unfolding Text" - Blast from the past! I had and read that in my pre-internet teen years. In those days I bought up any books I could find about the production of Who. TUT was probably the first time I encountered in-depth critical writing about media. It was certainly a drastic shift from the glossy nostalgia-tinged books from the BBC.
Dragonfire was IIRC the only time Glitz is depicted as semi-sympathetic. Even in Mysterious Planet he was rather sleazy. So I never for a moment bought Mel - Champion of Pease Pottage - deciding to throw her lot in with _that guy._
@@andrewbowman4611 - Compassion was an interesting character, and while she went through a lot of horror, that didn't seem gratuitous or uncritical at the time. The "time war" depicted in the Virgin novels was more nuanced and interesting than what we got on TV. The timelords were fighting a foe they could neither understand nor identify (NOT the Daleks), and those stories showed how the timelords were hypocritical in how they valued life - including forced regenerations of timelords (sometimes into literal monsters) as well as force-breeding of war TARDISes.
Thanks for mentioning Sandifer and her blog, it will be interesting to get another critical perspective on these stories I read about ten years ago. The extended media often has more to think about, but fewer people familiar to discuss it with.
@@voltijuice8576 Having only read a handful of Eighth Doctor novels, none of which featured Compassion, I am having to rely on second hand information regarding her. So if my characterisation's a tad sketchy, I can only apologise. Also, I agree Sandifer's blog is a superb piece of work which deserves further investigation from Doctor Who fans. A strange companion piece to Neil and Sue Perryman's Wife in Space blog, I think.
Glitz is something of a Deadpool kind of character. A hilarious for the most part psychopathic pirate. One thing... He hasn't changed since trial of a timelord.
Yeah, same opinion here basically. It's not great, but it _is_ fun and enjoyable. Philosopher guard is the definitive highlight, hands down.
Was waiting for your take on the cliffhanger. Certainly unique.
I remember stubagful reviewed it a while back and someone who did the effects for kane's death actually commented which was interesting
That was Silver1 , if you want effects details then you have to hunt down a copy Ace! The inside story of an end of an era, it's half Sophie Aldred and half Mike Tucker, so there's a lot of effects details.
There is a lot of ignoring villains misdeeds in classic Who. I remember a story where a friend of the Doctor allows an entire space station crew to be murdered, kidnaps the Doctor, attempts to dissect him and later in another episode shakes his hand and the Doctor says, "Good old XXX"
I would be fascinated to know which serial you're describing, because I can't think of one that completely matches that description
@@bassmastervan9391 Sounds like he is describing Dastari in the Two Doctors.
The problem with Glitz selling his crew is that originally he was a different character. Apparently, Nathan-Turner noticed that the character had a lot of similarities to Glitz, so he just decided to bring Glitz back since he'd been a fun character before. But they didn't bother to rewrite the backstory about the crew. The sad thing is it could've worked out better if they'd just rewritten it to say that Glitz mistakenly believed he was simply hiring out the crew for one job, and didn't know they were getting enslaved and having their memories wiped.
I had no idea that was Magenta! I knew she looked familiar. I just figured I'd seen her in an episode of some other British show somewhere.
The problem with Glitz is that Bob Holmes originally wrote him basically as a Gotham villain- fun to be around but definitely a psychopath. Ever since then they tried to have him be more bumbling and roguish but it doesn't quite pull together.
I like the escalating stakes in classic who. Tbh it happens in new who as well. In Dalek, the Dr talks about what happens if the Dalek escapes the base; "Nearest town? Population? All Dead?"
I can't tell for certain as I've not finished it but apparently, Cartmell pulled from Watchmen when writing Mel's departure. He was a big Alan Moore fan, invited to write for the show I believe.
I've always been of the opinion that the end villain melting was more graphic than the similar scene from Raiders of the Lost Arc - no blood, but the way his jaw falls off I found really disturbing as a child in a way that Raiders wasn't.
Also you made no mention of Mels leaving scene - really dubious motivation for her leaving & you really have to wonder about her ultimate fate given the mentioned "selling crew into slavery" behavioural issue of who she leaves with - but McCoy's speech is really nice, better companions had much worse / more abrupt / less heartfelt goodbyes than Mel during Classic Who - a better goodbye than she probably deserved.
Only other point is that I really like McCoy's doctor & especially when teamed up with Ace - those two really just instantly click and make it feel like a natural pairing from the off - especially when Ace starts calling him "Professor", just fits somehow, even though it's wrong. That pretty much sums up McCoy's era for me - lot's you can poke hole's in and laugh at, or that makes no sense, but something about it still works, the chemistry between the characters makes it enjoyable to watch and makes me willing to overlook a lot of nonsense - starting with this episode.
The outta skin melted off the the fibreglass but under skull did not. Sometimes memories cheat. :)
Kane got the Raiders of the lost ark treatment facial treatment.
Based on the story, I believe the intention of the cliffhanger was the Doctor was supposed to climb down the ice and reach a point where he runs out of foot holds, tries to reach using his umbrella but gets stuck. Hanging off the rail at the top under sells his intention.
I love this silly episode. Ace & 7 are my favorites. I bet you’ve mentioned elsewhere but this is a good place to say Ace’s given name is Dorothy and her trip to Iceworld in the timestorm is a Wizard of Oz analog.
Dragonfire is a fun episode, definitely. I really enjoy how easily Mel and Ace bonded, and I'm kind of sad they didn't get to go on adventures together. Tony Selby as Glitz is on form. I liked him in Mysterious Planet, when he had his sidekick Dibber, and in the Ultimate Foe (he tops and tails the Trial season) as a witness and 'helper' for various characters. The latter episode is where he met Mel - Peri was still around for Mysterious Planet, and she was so good there!
7 and Ace are my favorite TARDIS team, so I cut a lot of slack to the inconsistencies and gaffes in episodes featuring them. I will say, though, stay away from the 90s novels - the New Adventures - if you want to keep your opinion of Glitz as-is. The writing in those novels went grimdark, and there's something else Glitz does that is absolutely atrocious.
you're not the only one who saw something in mel/ace, big finish actually did a series of 7/ace/mel audiostories a few years ago
Which classic who cliffhanger is more infamous: 7th Doctor dangling off a cliff in one of these episodes or "Stop, don't move!" from Death to the Daleks?
Best cliffhanger of all time- Doctor Who and the Pirates
Evelyn: Oh no! You *are* going to sing?
The Doctor: Yes. I. am!
His other appearence is in six episode of Season Twenty-three's trial of a Time Lord. He's in the Opening Story-The Mysterious Planet and the Concluding two Episodes which are referred to as the Ultimate Foe. Honestly, the entire season is OK at best. Mysterious Planet is OK if only because Bob Holmes wrote it. But outside of that it is nothing to write home about.
The original cliffhanger was supposed to be the dragon but things got muddled in the editing room supposedly
The current explanation (or excuse) for THAT cliffhanger is that the Doctor was trying to get onto the ledge but underestimated how far down it was and even if thought it was big enough to stand on he'd probably lose balance if he just dropped right onto it.
Sure that's technically true, but the whole thing is so bizarrely executed it's kinda trippy and weird... and I like it!
It’s not though. He’d have to fall completely ass over teakettle to fall off that ledge.
@@CouncilofGeeks i dunno, That's just what was said.🤷♂️
Also, While I remember, they did an interview for the S24 set with Patricia Quinn at her mansion. Shes got her lips on display all over the place, she's even got them on a massive cushion. I just love the boldness. She's awesome.
Sabalom Glitz is prototype Captain Jack
i saw a post once that was along the lines of "there is no bad doctor who. any episode you think is bad is actually just camp, and the fact that you think it's bad is the point", and like... yeah: Dragonfire
Probably best to avoid Glitz's appearances in expanded media
I definitely have a soft spot for it.
that ending was very indiana jones
I haven't seen it in years, but I remember finding it...confusing. I never understood how Ace was suddenly on this world. It's still one of the better stories of McCoy's era, if only for the introduction of Ace.
They explain it in The Curse of Fenric.
great review.
point of intrest glitz was appeared during the 6th doctors era and the man playing the doctor was Collin baker not tom, you erroneously said tom
Dammit. Wrong Baker. I do thought it right and said it wrong.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks it happens.
Yet, how would you rate it purely as a companion introduction story?
Middling for classic era. The idea of her into is better than the execution and a lot is forgive because she’s just awesome.
@@BreakRoomofGeeks Well at least Ace didn't sell her crew into slavery and _then_ become a companion...
Dragonfire: When Doctor Who copied the same graphic ending from Raiders of the Lost Ark...
Don't think I didn't recognize that Face Melting Dragonfire...
Glad you did, because when we we given the brief It's what I cited as being what we were going to attempt, although ours was a 'one take only' affair and cost miles less then the version on Raiders of course. lol
Yes! Melting wax effects are under-rated!
It's an oddball for sure. It's above average for it's season but it's not a great season. Mel leaving and Ace being here really helps, and it has a few interesting ideas, so I'd say it's slightly below average, but worth watching all the same.
It's probably the second worst of the season, but it is a very fun watch. People give Chibs sh*t for making the Morbius doctors canon (deserved), but Moff went and fixed this cliffhanger in Name of the Doctor. The nerd impulse to "fix" classic who is strong in the showrunners.
Mel was not one of my favourite characters but she gets a nice goodbye.
Lol I saw the name and was like “wait isn’t that the one where ace runs of with some random girl and has like a ten minute sapphic fling… and like King Arthur is there too for some reason”
Edit: nah i guess that’s a different one
I think you're thinking of Battlefield!
I think seventh doctor stories are characterized by being at once very cheesy, campy and also confusing and convoluted
It's a bit of a silly episode but I like it. 7 and Mel are in good form and it introduced Ace which is great.