STOP Using iReal Pro For Jazz!
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Full disclosure, iReal Pro (formerly iReal Book and iReal b, I remember both) is a GREAT app for a lot of reasons, even composing and providing changes to tunes that people don't know. But I push back on this app for one very specific reason that I talk about in this video...
What do you think of iReal Pro? How do you use it?
What are some other alternatives to tune practice
Check out Phil Wilkinson's AMAZING jazz play-along tracks that SWING on his platforms:
--RUclips (with TONS of tunes): / @philwilkinsonmusic
--Website: www.playjazztracks.com/
0:00 - Intro
1:22 - Jamey Aebersold
3:41 - Criticisms of Play-Alongs
5:09 - iReal Pro
7:29 - My Thoughts on iReal
9:57 - Phil Wilkinson
13:22 - Performance Demo: "How Deep Is The Ocean?"
19:08 - Closing Thoughts
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#RealTalk 
Видеоклипы
Patrick! Wow man, thanks so much for putting this out. So happy you and others are liking the tracks. Amazing to hear you play on "how deep is the ocean" 🙏🏼
Your tracks is the best!!!
@@citylidamj8898 thanks so much 🙏🏼
Phil! You've done it again!!! I need these!
@@BrianJacksonmusic Brian my man!! Long time, hope you're well. We gotta hook up!
Coming from someone who doesn’t have the culture and the community support. This is really the next best thing!
Phil makes great tracks, we def have to step up as a community to support him
Phil is an old friend of mine and an amazing pianist, organist, guitarist, bassist and I seem to recall he plays a mean flute too. We used to play loads together in our home town of Nottingham UK. Good to see someone like Patrick picking up on his amazing backing tracks.
I use iReal book for middle schoolers. It allows me to slow down tempos to help them stay in time. When they are in 8th grade, I have them play with the real recordings. Thank you for making me aware of Phil Wilkinson. This will be a great addition.
Eagleheart Jazz Chanel has tasteful backing tracks as well 💛
You put a smile on my face.I can tell how young you are :) I think you are missing some history ! Play alongs have been around since 1950's I still have vinyl records known as The Music Minus One. This was a company that founded in 1950 and their sing-along and play-along records quickly became an industry standard. The library included jazz combo works from such famed players as Stan Getz, Jimmy Raney, Bob Wilber, Buddy DeFranco, Glenn Zottola, Bob Dorough, Ira Nepus, Alan Kaplan, and more. I think one of the records I had was with Tommy Flanagan and band.
The recordings allow the player to listen to the full recording featuring a soloist, but then pan the recording to remove the soloist so you could step in and play the lead.
I still have some of these Vinyl records in my collection. I learned a lot from these recordings in my late teens early 20's.
it's
backing
Absolutely love Phil's tracks. They push you as a musician with occasional twists and turns and have an incredible energy (being made by a live musician)
It’s always a treat to hear you Patrick!
When I began teaching, there was no iReal so I used Aebersolds in lessons. Now, I use iReal Pro in almost every lesson I teach. I agree with you on all the points in vid re:”electronic” swing. For me, the main selling point of iReal is the ability to control tempo as one issue I ran into when I used Aebersold’s is that sometimes the track would be just a little too fast for the student’s level.
In these cases I just play piano for the student if the song I want to play with them is too fast for them! Or I just slow down the Aebersold if I have my computer with me (there are apps that can slow it down too).
gotcha! I’ll research a slowdown app and have my students get it as well, thank you for the suggestion. 🙏🏻🎶
@@ColinthePulkrabekamazing slowdowner. Research done. Lolol
🙏🏻🙏🏻🎶
One thing I love is how you listen to the track and respond to what you hear. One problem with iReal is that it punishes interaction. If you try to follow the record it won’t lead you anywhere. I love learn jazz standards because it follows the record curve in volume and intensity.
Patricik, you are one of my new favorite jazz sluggers! Glad I found your channel, thanks for the smiles!
Love your thoughts here Patrick. Thanks for sharing this new resource with us!
Just discovered your playing a few days ago, there's just no way of listening without a ginormous smile. Thanks for what you do!
I'm glad this wasn't just a "here's a problem" video, rather a "here's a problem, but here's a solution" video. Phil's tracks are great!
Thanks for the tip! Will check these out!
Hitting the nail on the head as usual! 🙏
Patrick! First, KILLER soloing man. You have clearly achieved mastery, which is the elusive goal I’m chasing. Step by little step. Second, I’m at the point where I really need to put in the woodshed time soloing with some kind of backing tracks. This lesson has pointed me in the right direction. BIG Thanks!
I think a benefit of iReal book is the ability to change tempos and key signatures. It’s much easier now to practice something like Cherokee in all 12 keys in drastically different tempos.
Unrelated tip: I am a jazz pianist who wears glasses. They kept falling down my nose because I was looking down all the time. I finally bought frames with cable temples that wrap around my ears. They are really comfortable and keep my glasses on my face.
What a nice surprise... Everything ... your playing and the recordings of Phil...GREAT
I just bought the package deal off Phill Wilkinson's website because of Larry, i think he owes you a drink Larry.
Nice sound on the horn man :D Love the alto this way - and good comping from philwilkinsonmusic
Great playing man! I've been looking for good backing tracks just to noodle and practice to. This video gave me info on the old ones to look to get and this great online resource.
I use iRealPro on stage for a jazz jam house band. Being able to have the changes in any key is very useful. I don’t much like playing along with it but have done to work through various things.
I agree that Phil’s rhythm section swings more than jazz robots, lol. Thanks for your swinging and the info Patrick!
You play with so much beautiful emotions Patrick. A true master of the alto with your own romantic sound. Well done 👏
As a pianist, what I liked about the Jamey Aebersold recordings is that if you switched only to the left or right channel (it’s been so many years that I forget now!), you would only have the bass and drums backing track. Similarly, in iReal Pro, I can minus one the keyboard backing. Would love the same option with real musicians!
Great stuff, Pat! Love the Aebersold and Hal Leonard tracks - I got a bunch of 'em so I can play along and I totally agree w/ what you're saying here. I'll check Phil's stuff out too - great rendition of How Deep Is The Ocean 👏
You done good Patrick!!! As a drummer/Percussionist myself since the 60s. I was fortunate enough to have experienced "Woodshedding" with great records from my parent's Jazz collections and hitting the streets to play at Jam Sessions on Sundays or just listen to live Jazz from world-class artists local and visiting or later, playing in actual bands! That was also a period of some of the hottest organist like McDuff (whom I played with), Jimmy Smith, Jimmy Mcgriff , Lon Liston Smith, etc to cut my musical teeth on! There was even a series of recordings, at that time, called "Music Minus One" for play-alongs which, at that time period, had it's value too. Fast forward to the present...the internet and RUclips which I like to call "The Oracle" with it's infinite sources of learning always comes up with exciting discoveries like YOU and your sharing of valuable goodies!!!
Thank you for this "Coat Pull" of running down the pros and cons of play-along apps and discovering Phil and his generous and "Swangin'" tracks which comes in a time that I'm looking to Woodshedding again but to some more 'organically swinging' tracks to play with! BTW...big ups on your crushing alto solo man!!! very tasty indeed! My hip girlfriend turned me on to this post and you are a "new best friend" Gonna' partake in Phil's killer material to be sure too!!! Thanks again Patrick...keep Swangin' man!!!
Phil deserves the shoutout!
Just discovered you Phil. The title of the video attracted me. I use iReal Pro when I have to, but I feel like another commenter said, like I'm playing in a box. I'll definitely be checking out Phil Wilkinson. Thanks for the information. Also, your tone is so rich and your playing is swinging and beautiful. It was a joy to listen to you vibe with Phil. Than you for posting.
Sorry for the second post. Had to mention your sound. It's juicy! Absolutely beautiful tone. Thank you PB
Incredible video and love the solo and the backing tracks! Love the trash talk on Algorhythmic backing tracks. I hope there are more trash talk vids coming in with more trash talk... Thank you!
Just my own 2 cents on practice, I always think playing with records and singing with records helps me learn the music in the deepest way but any and all resources are great. The more time spent with the music, the deeper the sound and playing imho.
So sick. Always great advice from Pat. 🤘🏼💚
Love it!❤
My advice… learn the chords -
Then do 100 choruses( reps) with just a metronome.
Then ,,, get your backing track!
You’re welcome
( take your time ?😂)
Enjoy
Phenomenal playing bro and thanks for the tips 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Thanks for the tips Patrick. Really appreciate it.
thanks for the recommendation, definitely gonna check this phil guy out
I imagine most people use it for the chord changes, not necessarily as backing tracks.
I have been looking for great back-track information like this! どうもありがとうございました💖
Nice video. One thing you didn't mention about iReal Pro (or Band in a Box, for that matter) is that you can change the tempos and the keys for any tune which is a huge advantage for practicing the changes.
I practice changes by sitting at a piano or running through ideas a capella. I refuse to run changes with something that doesn't swing. It's kryptonite.
Loop Loft for hip drum loops made by folks like Nate Smith, Antonio Sanchez, Eric Harlan, Mark Guiliana...Fun to play with. I have never liked the feel(lack of it) of the app you are discussing and don't use it.
Love your energy and your committment to playing/teaching music. Thank you!
Sounds great man! Good thoughts.
Thanks! I just listened to one and straight away I noticed the liveliness of the bass ! cOOl !
This is incredible. Thanks for making me aware of it, and terrific solo.
Two cool chaps working together and sharing good practice on how to improve. Cheers folks!
🤯 Wow! Thanks man! 🙏🏽 This is brilliant
Cool! Been using Phil's tracks with my students for several months now.
I love this! Im a very beginner learning jazz, from Aimee Nolte and Open Studio. Just learning the first basic chords and tried playing a little with ireal pro. I felt like I was playing inside a box, can’t describe it but it definitely felt more like my old classical practice with a metronome than playing with a jazz standard. I was wondering what I was going to do when Im actually at the point to play along with something!
I think if either of them hear about website this they would definitely promote it.
Lovely performance btw.
Nice playing! Encouraged me to bring out my old Aebersold CD's and check out newer play-a-long options.
You sound great. Thanks for making this video.
i’ve struggled using ireal pro for a while and struggled to put into words exactly why, but i think you nailed it. it’s really useful for playing songs in non standard styles and also obscure songs, but actual humans just can’t be beat
Totally agree with the time feel thing. I basically learned to improvise (way back in the 80’s!) by listening and playing along to records. iReal is great when you need to get an idea of the chords but IMHO you have to play-a-long with someone, even if that’s virtual/recordings. Helped my feel and sense of time massively.
Patrick, the simple reason iReal Pro has lasted is - vocalists! I used it for years for backing tracks as a solo pianist because it was available, immediate and sucky enough that nobody would pay attention - like a drum machine with chords. But then I started working with Band In A Box WAVs. Players I have used include Alex Ai, Charles Treadway, Neil Larsen, Mike Clark, Eric Marienthal, Jeff Lorber, Kenny Barron, Mike Stern, Pat Martino, Phil Woods, Rebecca Mauleon and Ron Carter, And now you can install it on a laptop, prepare backing tracks that not only let you press one key (F4) and the same musicians construct an entirely new take. And NOW, you can designate bars as loop start, end or coda, etc. and decide when to implement in real time. Live jams where you decide when to move to a coda, or an interlude, etc. It is NOT the real thing, they are NOT listening. But YOU can listen and respond as though they were the masters and YOU are the student letting them guide you, this time.
Thanks for making me aware of these tracks, I rarely have musicians to jazz jam with, and these sound amazing.
Thanks for the info, valuable resources. Changes reminded me of A Foggy Day in London Town
This is fantastic! Also, the Jim Snidero play-alongs are pretty good.
Funny story - back in the late 80’s a mate of mine was busking in a tube station (subway?) in London, using Aebersold backing tracks. An old guy stopped, dropped some money in his sax case and stayed and listened. When he’d finished playing the old guy, with an American accent said ‘ nice playing young man, I bet you can’t guess who I am? ‘. No idea I’m afraid, he replied. American replied, I’ll give you some help ‘ A one, a two, a one two three ……
That Cedar Walton Aebersold is hip!
Thanks for that Patrick, a very interesting take. Funnily enough I was using Jamie Aebersold’s stuff on vinyl when I started my jazz ‘journey’ 😂 they were a great introduction to playing with a ‘band’ - although the track is always the same and one can’t beat the human interaction and development that happens during a performance. I completely agree with your sentiments on iReal Pro, it is robotic, BUT I’ve found it invaluable for learning tunes, tricky progressions, and generally how certain harmonic content sounds, I like the cycle function and being able to change the tempo and key of tunes, I don’t tend to think of it as an artistic outlet or ‘proper’ playing but as a practice tool, it doesn’t groove at all😂 I think the thing to take away from your vid is to know the strengths and weakness from what’s available and use them to their own advantages.
so we just need Phil to make a playalong for every song ever made. Phil, get on it. ;)
Wow just checked out phils channel and I had the same reaction🤣 I was like " dammm this swingin! "
Thank you!
Great point!
Thanks for sharing the info on Phil Wilkinson and your insight on IReal and The Abersole play alongs
Nice playing by the way maybe it’s me but I rarely hear or discover newer alto players these days 🙏🏽👍🏽
Sounding good, man.
Thanks a lot Patrick!! I real is helping me but this is way better!
Buying vol.2 rn gonna use it as motivation to learn all of those tunes
Thanks SOOOO MUCH Patrick !!! (soooo true !)
Great video! Simon Peter King also has some great backing tracks too!
Hi Patrick. You make a lot of good points. I bought the first Aebersold records in the early 80ies and later switched to Band-in-a-Box. Since more than 10 years this software is using building blocks of chord changes from real live musicians to assemble a tune. Not perfect, but a much better solution to play along the chord changes you like to practice. I think the backing tracks are swinging and you can change the tempo, transpose and use different styles.
By the way, I like your sax playing a lot. I first became aware of you during your collaboration with Emmet Cohen. Best regards. Peter
Phil Wilkinson's stuff is the best!!
PATRICK I JUST DOWNLOADED IT YESTERDAY
Good talk brother
I do not care about tracks or real tracks of any track. Your solo was Tsssssssssssssssssssss!!!! You are BEAST!!!
Intelligent guy. Great advice. Great playing. Thanks!
I love it
Lifetime organist... brilliant
Talk about it! 😭💪
Ok, I never thought of Ireal Pro as a seriuos tool to use as a backing track. Maybe once in a while, but I primarily I see it as a reading changes tool when performing. That's what I believe is used for regularly by many musicians, and is another dividing issue in jazz community, isn't it?😃 Have you ever discuss that in your videos, what's your stance on that? And big thanks for Phil Wilkinson refferal, really good tracks!
I couldn't agree more. Playing with a robot almost deadens any flow or inspiration. It's handy for figuring out some basic stuff, but trying to improvise with any sort of feel is almost like swimming upstream. (My other iReal pet peeve is when folks show up for a gig, never learning the tunes, and using iReal pro as a fakebook, staring at the phones/iPads the entire time, but I digress.) I'm going to check out Phil Wilkinson now! Thanks!
Hell yeah thanks for sharing, will check these out. I do like irealpro as a teacher and player but it has its limitis. I often warmup with Irealpro on like a rhythm changes in a weird key like Db on upright bass and speed up the tempos, helps me with my time and intonation, but then I turn it off. Also a lot of my students keep pulling up these tunes that have specific hits and trying to play along with irealpro and it doesn't go well lol.
Just got to say…………GREAT PLAYING!
Sound, articulation and ideas!
Thanks Patrick 🍁
Thanks for your advice, tips, and playing, and your love for jazz and the people of jazz. Thanks for honoring the older cats and learning from them. Thanks for dealing with the important question of how players can improve and the resources you share.
At some point maybe Band in a Box should be mentioned as a resource that is between iReal and recorded tracks with live players. On the one hand I find it easier to program forms than iReal, and you are kind of playing with humans with personalities (I played Girl from Ipanema with Ron Carter for example 😂), but you can also change the form or make your own, which one can’t do with recorded backing tracks. It’s not perfect but another resource that might help somebody.
Funny thing is that the iReal Pro track sound a lot like Band in a box from the 90's. At least it did a few years ago, it was so similar it sounded that they just copied the engine.
@@gauthierostervall4849 Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but it is quite different from mine. I have no idea what Band in a Box (BiaB) sounded like in the 1990s. (My version is 2019.) To me there is a night and day difference between iReal Pro backing tracks and BiaB. Some of the players include
Neil Swainson [ Acoustic String Bass ]
Pat Martino [ Electric Guitar ]
Phil Woods [ Alto Sax ]
Ron Carter [ Acoustic String Bass ]
Brent Mason [ Guitar ]
Danny Gottlieb [ Drums ]
Eric Alexander [ Tenor Sax ]
Eric Marienthal [ Soprano Sax, Alto Sax, Tenor Sax ]
Jeff Lorber [ Electric Piano ]
Lewis Nash [ Drums ]
Kenny Barron [ Piano ]
Mike LeDonne [ Acoustic Piano, Organ ]
Miles Black [ Acoustic Piano, ]
Now, if you asked the players what they thought of their association with BiaB, and what they thought of tracks Biab made from their recorded playing, I don't know what they would say. Also, the software cuts and pastes their recorded playing according to what the form programmer (you, the user) wants, so it's not going to be perfect. But I for one can feel some of the personalities of the players I choose for my backing tracks.
Cheers and no offense, this is just my experience and imo -- 😀
Damn, I had no idea the masters were on the aebersold recordings! I will revisit. Thanks!
First off, love your playing.iReal is good for changes if you find a tune you don't know, and for drills, like working on the bridge to Cherokee or Miss Jones, but not much else for me. But it is convenient. And I agree I wish and hope Jamey takes his show online as well. Eveni though I have all of them, I'd buy an app that makes them available in a mobile setting. I wasn't aware of Phil's tracks but I will definitely contribute to the cause. He is doing Jazz a great service. Like you I grew up with Jamey's records (yes I'm that old) and still have and use them (in CD version uploaded to my laptop). A couple of play-alongs I liked from years ago were by two greats, Clarke Terry and Rich Matteson. Clarke's had both him playing and just the backing tracks. Rich's really explored some interesting changes, tunes based on some standard changes, and some of originals (live the tune Spoofy).
I like your playing.
I only use Ireal pro when i need to play with a singer that likes to play in crazy keys. its a way to at least have a backing track in moments where there is no record or play along.
Cool 😎
when I was using ireal book a lot, my prefered way to play it was with only the bass track and a hithat click on 2 and 4. Definitely not nearly as good as playing with backing tracks on youtube like phil for learning feel, but I found it helpful for learning songs and harder sections where I could repeat a few bars that are giving me trouble.
just want to point out Hall Overton & Duke Jordan did the "Jazz Laboratory Series" back in the '50s on vinyl. A side is the entire track with the B side with no solo - specifically for the reason you're mentioning here. the insert along with it was fascinating to see the thought process & idea behind it. There's 3 volumes.
I recommend picking it up if you can. or at the very least, i hope it gets to be better know.
I'm new to jazz chords[ ?]. I use iReal Pro to learn the chord shapes and how the songs are constructed. works for me at my level.
The original Abersold releases were on vinyl, man. Trust me, I know. Also, funny seeing your picture of Jamey Abersold, as I remember seeing him at live clinics - twice! - late 70's/early 80's, with a mad head full of curly blond hair! All these apps are an imperfect solution, but very helpful. Love iReal, loved Jamey Abersold, love playing along to Spotify, and gonna look up Phil Wilkinson. I'm sure I'll love that, too. 🎉
Can`t agree more. Would be humbled and honored if you (the comminty here) gave our real-musicians playalongs a shot as well. Thanks and enjoy! 😌 (Berlin Backing Tracks)
I strongly recommend Simon Peter King's backing tracks, i think they're pretty amazing
I really liked your point about the interactivity of swing & time feel. I agree that software currently available doesn't help, but do you think in principle a software that listens to you playing along, and adapts to your time feel, could do better?
Hi Patrick! I love to play with Phil’s backings. I also enjoy the “Double Bass and Piano Tracks”. The don’t have drums but they swing!
Integral for drummers 🥁
i used iReal Pro for years to find the best key for a new singer/ song combination. before i wrote the sheets and rehearsed with the whole band i could quickly find the best keys for 20 songs in a few minutes with the singer.
Have you heard of Band in a box? It’s a Programm where you can type in the changes of the song you want to play and then it generates a backing track, that’s different every time you play it, based on recorded fragments of actual musicians that you can pick. I believe Ron Carter recorded some for this as well. You can also make it generate a solo in the style of whomever and you can view the transcription of that.
I remember Band a box already in the 90’s and I used to practice with it way before I heard about abersold tracks.I hardly had internet I think haha..they weren’t real musicians back then but it sound better than iReal pro cause the comping was different every time.
I do use Ireal today mostly for practicing chord/scale changes.lowering the tempo for difficult tunes etc or looping a few bars.also as a guitarist who has duo gigs with only Upright bass mostly, the option to mute instruments is helpful.
I also like Phil’s tracks especially great practice are the 2-5-1 series! Great to try different devices.
That being said still nothing is more developing than playing with people or just the metronome.
I think of iReal Pro as the original DOS/Windows Band-in-a-box written for mobiles. I never understood why PG Music didn't do what iReal Pro did, They seem to not want to adopt the mobile platforms (Android & iOS) at all. iReal Pro have done a great job with a lovely app, that is now available on Macs as well, so the concept has gone full circle.
Huge thanks, Patrick. I didn't know about the Phil Wilkinson play-alongs. There's another one you didn't mention: the Realbook (fakebook), also put out some play alongs with real musicians playing (not sure who), Vols 1 & 2, but not vol. 3. They're prett decent.
Okay, Ireal Pro: very helpful when just learning changes; main advantage is that you can slow down the tempo and change keys. I'm a not great trumpet player, good enough to get gigs backing singers sometimes, so I have to transpose to whatever key the vocalist is singing. You can change the keys and tempos with the Aebersolds, but you need a slow downer app (I use 'Transcibe' which I highly recommend).
Good point about IRealPro being too "robotic". Also, the chord changes are not always "right" but I see too many players relying on this app, when they should be checking the questionable changes against other sources.
Great solo, by the way. I sure wish I could double like that, but I'm still a ways off from that (Dizzy was the master of doubling on the trumpet; made it sound like he was playing a flute).
I'll check out the Phil Wilkinson vids. This was very helpful to me, so again, mega thanks.
(Oops, gotta change my outdated RUclips name).