“I’m the Baby! Gotta Love Me!” (Continue down for QnA)... Q1. NUMBS! YOU ARE OBJECTIVELY WRONG ABOUT THE MOVIES! THEY ARE CANON TO GT! IDIOT! A: Nothing I say will change your mind. I don’t care if you disagree. But to those who are more open-minded, be aware of the evidence I presented. Koyama who wrote the movies agrees with different continuities, so does Toriyama, so does the guidebooks, the anime has plenty of continuity inconsistencies, even the video games supports multiverse theory. The only argument at that point is “but the villains are too strong for that arc” or “but it follows the timeline” which is an example of hasty generalization fallacy and Appealing to Incredulity fallacy. Now that said, I know I did included movie scaling anyways, but regardless, I refused to act bias towards GT just to push a weird agenda to devalue Super or overhype GT. Unless you have another valid argument, I could care less if you think I’m wrong since this video is mostly for the sake of entertainment and being informative. Rather than real pushing the agenda that GT Goku solos fiction. Q2. Why did you argue Baby is possibly above the likes of either Buuhan and Kid Buu or Gogeta and Vegito? A: To those who don’t know, Buuhan Vs. Kid Buu is such an infamous contentious topic. Personally, tho, my opinions on the shouldn’t influence my outlook on Baby’s abilities. That's why for the sake of TRYING to have an unbiased viewpoint, I simply wanted to present that Baby CAN or COULD surpass whichever buu you yourself think is the strongest. That includes Vegito and Gogeta. If you think Buuhan is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him. If you think Kid Buu is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him as well. Regardless, I was simply explaining his eventual development of power that made him comparable to Buu since he was awakened and likely surpassed him by the time he reaches his transformations. So please don’t assume I claimed one or the other is stronger, it was simply the best visual reference for the viewer to better comprehend Baby’s threat level. Q3. Why did you compare the Sugoroku space lore to Super? A: People may not like to admit it but its very clear that not many casual fans or scalers and debaters truly understand dimensional scaling on a technical level. Granted, even for real life scientists, the topics about mathematical dimensions is very difficult and contentious. That said, there has been this miasma of false claims about GT Goku being some outerversal being. Now there are more better ways to go about it, but the sugoroku space argument was a very misunderstood example and one I had to make sure to clarify. More often than not, I see people go for the highest interpretation as the ONLY VALID interpretation, when the story itself disproves those beliefs. So if you are angry at me about this topic, sorry but unless there is better argumentations, you’re not gonna see me change my perspective given how its explained in the series itself. Q4. Whats your deal with Baby’s speed. A: Again, im very lenient on the whole other world cosmology scaling. I PERSONALLY don’t preach that it must be some outerversal reality or a 12D reality of sorts. But I know people do believe it does in fact have no flow of time. I’m just here to explain ALL possible interpretations and allow you to come up with your own conclusions. Hence why Baby’s speed was a topic I didn’t harp on too much compared to his power. Q5. Dragon Ball heroes is not outerversal Numbers. What are you talking about? A: Admittedly, I could have done better to further breakdown Heroes lore. However if you noticed, Baby barely has much of a presence in Heroes so it felt unnecessary to extend the video for another hour when Baby is not given much justification to have valid scaling to it. Even if I said Heroes was Complex Multiversal or something less exaggerated than Outerversal, people would still question if Baby can be allowed the same scaling all because of minor cameos. Hence why I somewhat jokingly yet acknowledge the Dr.Slump scaling and Sugoroku space lore IN CASE people think its totally valid to claim he can reach those levels. Thats up to you of course if that is consistent or not. Q6: How valid are the guidebooks you used? A: Much like most sources, its a case-by-case topic. The perfect files, daizenshuu, and chouzenshuu are valid materials, while others like GT La Revista or the Spanish DBS Guidebook were more so non-Shueisha supplementary material. Again, this video IS a composite overview of baby, so I still consider it applicable. Even the official guidebooks have minor errors, but even Toriyama finds them valid to use, so trying to devalue the entire sets of books for the sake of having a biased opinion because of a grammar mistake or whatever is not a valid excuse for me to ignore the material so long as it provides a noncontradictory evidence. Btw, i did make a minor mistake, Giru did not in fact showed goku use SSJ1 against ledgic to the Sigma Force. He did obviously use the form for the fight but I guess Giru was not able to record such battle data or lied about such info. Anyways, Long story short, GT is not as strong as people make it out to be. I don’t support the need to overhype GT just for the sake of hating on Super. That said, please try to be civilized when discussing with others about GT and Super scaling. I don’t hate GT more or less than I do Super. It doesn’t change the fact I want to be consistent to the information provided and make an entertaining video for the community to get a kick out of it. Otherwise, you do you, i’m just an idiot with too much free time. :)
Haven't finished the video but I'm glad you scaled without using the movies, it always sat wrong with me that they were assumed to be cannon to GT, plus movie scaling is utter glazing anyway.
I think even if Giru showed Super Saiyan, Goku might transformed just to flex and probably held back a lot of his power moreso than when he fought Rildo in Base. Even against Rildo he transformed just to flex, tho he might have needed it against Hyper Meta Rildo.
Basically Toe didn't think this through for everything he wrote, the files are unreliable, the wordings are vague, and the abilities are all nuanced. Sounds to me people need to stop going with basic statements and go strictly with context given.
I love how looking at the fight simpler, it’s just Goku vs Vegeta at the end of the day, and technically we see a technically mutated ssj3 vegeta, Along with 2 new forms from the 2 Saiyans (golden ape and ss4)
@@ultragarrisondude... respectfully, shut up... you’re making me even more sad at the thought that we could’ve finally gotten a badass moment where GT Vegeta uses SSJ3 😢 2 things that make me depressed about GT, 1: how we could’ve seen a SSJ3 GT Vegeta kick butt, and 2: how they just disrespected Uub throughout the Show, giving him 1 good moment and then tossing him away... 😢
@ its just logical criticism and such criticism is why Super was a great show. Having fights between SSJ2 and SSJ3, Future Trunks having his moments. Either way, GT is now being viewed in a more positive light amongst DB fans with the release of Super. Its definitely an interesting chapter in the DB saga despite being non-canon.
@@ultragarrison fr though, GT has reasonable criticism, but at the same time, some criticisms that are just straight mindless hate (especially when some of these criticisms in GT, are in Super aswell), but I’ll be honest, Super was in no way a great show, it has a lotta, if not as much criticism as GT has, but then again, both have good things about them, it’s also interesting to see how DB will go now with the better light GT has now.
Wasn’t expecting a Baby video. Neat! And good video as per usual. Also cool intro bit and insert “stalling for Broly” comment here. No disagreements with anything, only a few thoughts on about 3 things that came to mind
Movies to GT: Never subscribed to the movies (whether as desperate continuities or some loose single continuity or “diemension”) and GT being a single continuity though always thought it was funny. There’s also the fact that Vegeta says he saw the Fusion technique from the afterlife as well inside of Buu, so that already explains his knowledge of the forms. Some higher end GT scaling ideas: For higher end scaling for some of the GT characters, I guess there is the fact that the Sigma Force seemed to be possibly around the ball park of Luud upon their first appearance (if you think that what he meant by ‘a strong power he hasn’t felt in a while.’ The base Saiyans by M-2 seem to be stronger if Pan knocking someone with Rilldo’s current power is impressive, yet Goku finding base Trunks losing to Rilldo incredibly suspicious (When trunks reveals he did it on purpose.) I guess there’s also all 3 Saiyans scarring Baby individually after he absorbed Rilldo’s power (at whatever level you think). I’ve seen other topics like ‘how much power did he take from Goten when possessing Gohan and was that energy added to Baby Gohan’s base?’ or if Goten got a zenkai after that. All of this just being fuel for however idea of a SSJ3 GT Gotenks at that point being useless against Baby but not SSJ4 Goku. Especially depending how strong you think SSJ Vegito is compared to Buuhan/Kid Buu. Is interesting to see how people scale GT and the GT vs Super wars are just funny to me. Golden Oozaru multiplier: As far as the Golden Oozaru form, I think it’s kind of “potential unlock” like rules where it’s basically just using whatever the “true” power is of the user with SS4, practically being a controlled version which could also make it stronger if you think increased “shōki” or “right mindedness” translates to that. Especially if you think SSJ Baby is strong enough to tank SSJ3 Goku, and he receives more ki (that goes into his base form) in addition to his later 2 forms. GO’s multiplier would just have to be stronger than that for Goku and Baby’s GO multiplier would probably be higher than that to surpass initial SSJ4 Goku. Also 17M times boost for GO?! I’ve always heard 10,000x boost as a highball because of the 1,000x blutz waves. That’s kinda hilarious but then again I never thought he was “outerversal” or whatever the scaling term is. Maybe Baby does have INFINITE POWER
I was gonna do this thing where I edited a comment as I watched the video with my thoughts but this video is so well constructed it ended up just me going “I agree”. Well done this is definitely one of my favorite GT scaling videos on this platform
@dereklyma6310 nah she actually does... she oddly enough consistently scales to goku in base. examples she put hands on rildo, haze, oceanus etc. As odd as it is pan actually has some extreamly good feats and scaling just off of being around goku... the rildo bit alone just kind of means she negs cabba
@@OldFolkzeh... id say it’s debatable if Pan, GT Goten or GT Trunks could 1 tap Vegito... I mean, in GT (looking at the Baby Saga for now), GT Goku himself, after being one-shot by Baby Vegeta while in SSJ3, stated that Baby (Super Baby 1) had the strongest energy thats ever been felt in years (automatically making Super Baby 1 above SSJ Vegito, if not, comparable to a hypothetical SSJ2 Vegito, since Baby’s Forms while in Vegetas body, where compared to SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 respectfully) a SSJ GT Goten and SSJ GT Gohan (who btw, was stated that he’s kept up with his training, while still keeping up with his Work), couldn’t even compare to a Base GT Goku, SSJ GT Trunks seems to be fairly relative to SSJ GT Goten to an extent, so the same outcome would still happen, Pan is no better, as she couldn’t even compare to a Base GT Gohan, but it’s easy to look at Base GT Goku, as those 4 Characters are no where close to Base GT Goku, who at that point, was no where even close to Baby Vegeta and especially Super Baby 1. In conclusion, they ain’t doing anything to Vegito............ yet... as looking past Baby Saga, that’s when the debatably part comes in, as in the Super 17 Saga, a Base GT Goten was curb stomping General Rildo, and a Base GT Trunks 1 tapped General Rildo, who was strong enough to force GT Goku into SSJ (before GT Goku met Baby that is, but that’s still impressive, as General Rildo was the stronger then Buu, where before that, GT Goku, Uub, and GT Vegeta, where the only ones stronger then Buu at that point, far far surpassing Kid Buu in Base to a crazy extent), and then of course there’s in the Shadow Dragon Saga how Pan could kinda help out with the Shadow Dragons, excluding Naturan Shenron, Rage Shenron, Eis Shenron, Nouva Shenron or Syn Shenron.
Neat, my favorite villain next to Z Broly. I see Cooler also just as a cameo and not as the same person from DBZ Movie 5. It is just an easter egg like how people wear shirts saying Super Saiyan despite not knowing what a Saiyan is in-story. Regarding the Movie 12 thingy, I only recall the anime mentioning the fusion dance with Vegeta once and it was implied that Vegeta knows about how to perform it. Some of the feats might apply not because the movies took place but Goku showing hints of similar feats like shacking hell and the entry to the afterlife by powering up in base form. Wish a whole video was dedicated to the CHAD General Rildo but still nice seeing him make a cameo and somewhat get talked about. I don't believe Vegeta was stronger at the time than Goku but that Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan on earth and Baby didn't want Goku's body specifically. Also I find it odd that Baby looks different when possessing Vegeta. I assume he turned him to a permanent host and that allows him to combine the full potential of both Baby and Vegeta. Regarding the reason why the Perfect Files 1 consider Baby the strongest fighter in the series is because the Perfect Files are a collection of Dragon Ball GT comics that were published at the time. At the time the part with Baby being the strongest was released, there were no Super 17 or Omega Shenron. So one has to be careful with the information given. Tenkaichi 1 letting Baby fight Gogeta is mindblowing because there are 2 Vegetas? How can Baby possess Vegeta while Goku is fused with Vegeta? Questionable choice.
Hopefully i don't see any gt downplay but considering most people are dumb enough to believe cabba can beat gogeta i don't have much hope for the dbz community anymore
@calebehhh-jx7ic respectfully he doesn't even reach pan. I'm trying to tell you she has too many showings of somehow scaling to base goku and that's more than enough to beat cabba
Super has no scaling. We have broly forcing two characters who is at the peak of power to fuse which is absurd or kefla one shoting a ssb kioken x10 goku which makes zero sense or base kefla was destroying god goku despite it literally being stated that fused might isn't enough to beat beerus or future trunks pulling a genki out of his ass and one shoting and a character that is beyond stronger than blue goku and vegeta. Despite the problems that GT has, i enjoy it and rewatched it compared to anything in super.
Why do people care so much about powerscaling and canon? Just watch the god damn show and stop treating it like a math exam. You’re meant to enjoy it. Every series is completely different
because its fun to talk about those things. Enjoyment and fun is subjective, and if powerscaling and theories about the canon are not enjoyable to you, don't waste time and energy on them.
This thing about the guide saying that Gohan GT never stopped training after the Buu Saga or the End of Z is bullshit in my opinion. It's clearly not what the character shows on screen.
Can be summed up by 2 things Gohan barely being in fights The fights he is in are those where -he is holding back -loses to hacks -the bad guy is stronger than or as strong as goku
All of the "infinite power" statements are just to hype the characters and they are not literal. I think Koyama said so on X/Twitter. Japanese culture does this a lot. The fact characters get tired proves they don't have infinite power, unless you want to tell me they get *infinitely* tired...
Well they might as well be cuz they're not the primary basis here brother. Everyone and their momma in GT since initial level of Base Rildo is established stronger than dbz except Vegito , where Buu had already started going into infinites. So from then its about how many greater layers of infinite.
The kid buu statements of being the strongest majin buu In the anime is similar to the movie statements of "infinite power" which has been used multiple times one of the people who worked on the movie even confirmed it (i dont remember who but it was someone who had influence with the movies like coolers revenge and such) so it cant always be taken face value unless we wanking the characters just a bit more
16:52 its been referenced as an endless void of nothingness. So objectively it doesnt have time especially when you look at the green animal and his son. They played 6 billion something games in the dimension. Realistically thats like 1000 years in there and the kid never grew up yet in the time skip between episode 64 and 100 years later both of them died on the kais planet. kind of hard to justify that if time was flowing in that dimension. Also goku blew up the whole thing which is why he popped back up in space. He didnt open a portal to get out 😐. Also you mentioned arale as a joke but unironically she is a valid scaling point for gt.
Interesting. That kind of didn’t really cross my mind. Not really agreeing or disagreeing but I think I did hear of a similar talking point from some other video a while ago. (Maybe it was a Saiyan Scholar video.) I guess if Sugoroku Space is known as a “space between dimensions” with those “dimensions” being dimensions of or “between time and space” the the bosses of Sugoroku Space not wanting Sugoro to leave could make sense. There’s also that point that since Sugoro played almost 33B games, presumably if each of them happened consecutively and were 5mins it’d take 300 or so years to do. I always knew about the “wander forever statement” although one can wander in a limited area like a maze forever too. Granted, I have heard that the tears in the sky being the dimension being destroyed when those were clearly just representatives of mouthes. When Goku fires a blast and hits what I assume is a “dimensional barrier” (however that can be defined), a huge white light does envelop the entire area. So whether you think Goku destroyed it or not, I guess it would be as if he was “spat out” considering he wouldn’t be able to exist in a dimension that was no longer there anymore. And there was apparently no way they could even guess where they’d end up. I think that might make sense with the teleportation zone being some sort of dimension that doesn’t account for time that can also spatially overlap dimension of wherever the point of entry and exit is too? (Though I don’t think all of this was really thought out when being written.) Just thought of this too but if Baby’s Revenge Death Ball can intercept literal instantaneous movement after it’s already been initiated, then that’s kind of as effective as hitting someone back in time to stop them from launching and attack the already did, funnily enough. I don’t know what moving faster than what the natural flow of time would allow is called in power scaling terms. Was it “immeasurable speed?” We know Sugoro and his son got stuck in there because of a worm hole and apparently (at least according to Dokkan Battle) might be what Baby’s RDB did. Especially if you think that it looked like Goku was falling into some sort of rift. I guess the entire background of that teleportation zone does somewhat when the shockwave hits. The closest thing that’s visually comparable to is the WoV changing color in DBS if you think that has any significance.
@ they wouldn't even need that bs to wank goku if they actually paid attention to their story like theyre supposed to instead of zoning out for big strong fight
17:58 he didn't do that out of accident in the way you say though, the shockwaves sent Beerus and Goku flying twice and just kept getting stronger by traveling farther 19:48 ssj4 isn't labeled as "an ultimate form", it is outright "the ultimate form", if you disagree, well, know that the same way of saying "the ultimate x" is used for Vegito being the ultimate warrior and so on it doesn't disprove ssj4>Ssg, rather chouzenshuu 4 proves jt 24:00 actually no, rather the whole narrative and even the episode title says that Goku simply took his ssj4 back to its full power, not getting it higher, the reason the times 10 Kamehameha didn't work was cuz both lost considerable amounts of strength, Goku more than likely lost more So for the Vegito boost comparison, it mentioned ssj before that, so it more than likely refers to ssj vegito multiplier
Lowball being Universal + is dumb ngl, Buuhan level characters are Universal, so Baby at his full power would without question be above it by large amount. It is still better compered to downplay Gt fanboys give it. Also for the Blutz Waves thingy, even if Baby is given large amount of Blutz Waves needed, it does not change how strong form makes him but adds energy on top of his base strength, since damage is often shown to effect ki (Such as Gohan's arm being damaged by Cell cut his power in half), being given extra energy would heal his wounds. Pretty much the extra Blutz Wave just add more energy into his ki not add more power into his transformation.
i think you're referring to the exit. Thats was what Goku was trying to use to escape the collapsing dimension but instead forced his way out after falling from the board game obstacles.
Super Baby Vegeta 2 is on par with a destroyer from DBS bare minimum. Also that fact that you think buuhan is weaker than kid buu is such a fundamental mistake that it invalidates this entire video and proves yet again that dbz fans still can't read.
He's actually stronger than all of dbs as dbs is only one layer into outer so far. The whole sugoroku space section in this vid is pretty unreasonably downplayed but rest is alright. Man why is yt such a pain in the ass the comments just not go through sometimes , maybe i need to start making my own videos too 😂
He isn't but unfortunately most people are dumb enough to believe base cabba has a chance against most of the gt roster despite cabba being weaker than episode 1 gt goku... and funnily enough pan
“I’m the Baby! Gotta Love Me!”
(Continue down for QnA)...
Q1. NUMBS! YOU ARE OBJECTIVELY WRONG ABOUT THE MOVIES! THEY ARE CANON TO GT! IDIOT!
A: Nothing I say will change your mind. I don’t care if you disagree. But to those who are more open-minded, be aware of the evidence I presented. Koyama who wrote the movies agrees with different continuities, so does Toriyama, so does the guidebooks, the anime has plenty of continuity inconsistencies, even the video games supports multiverse theory. The only argument at that point is “but the villains are too strong for that arc” or “but it follows the timeline” which is an example of hasty generalization fallacy and Appealing to Incredulity fallacy. Now that said, I know I did included movie scaling anyways, but regardless, I refused to act bias towards GT just to push a weird agenda to devalue Super or overhype GT. Unless you have another valid argument, I could care less if you think I’m wrong since this video is mostly for the sake of entertainment and being informative. Rather than real pushing the agenda that GT Goku solos fiction.
Q2. Why did you argue Baby is possibly above the likes of either Buuhan and Kid Buu or Gogeta and Vegito?
A: To those who don’t know, Buuhan Vs. Kid Buu is such an infamous contentious topic. Personally, tho, my opinions on the shouldn’t influence my outlook on Baby’s abilities. That's why for the sake of TRYING to have an unbiased viewpoint, I simply wanted to present that Baby CAN or COULD surpass whichever buu you yourself think is the strongest. That includes Vegito and Gogeta. If you think Buuhan is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him. If you think Kid Buu is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him as well. Regardless, I was simply explaining his eventual development of power that made him comparable to Buu since he was awakened and likely surpassed him by the time he reaches his transformations. So please don’t assume I claimed one or the other is stronger, it was simply the best visual reference for the viewer to better comprehend Baby’s threat level.
Q3. Why did you compare the Sugoroku space lore to Super?
A: People may not like to admit it but its very clear that not many casual fans or scalers and debaters truly understand dimensional scaling on a technical level. Granted, even for real life scientists, the topics about mathematical dimensions is very difficult and contentious. That said, there has been this miasma of false claims about GT Goku being some outerversal being. Now there are more better ways to go about it, but the sugoroku space argument was a very misunderstood example and one I had to make sure to clarify. More often than not, I see people go for the highest interpretation as the ONLY VALID interpretation, when the story itself disproves those beliefs. So if you are angry at me about this topic, sorry but unless there is better argumentations, you’re not gonna see me change my perspective given how its explained in the series itself.
Q4. Whats your deal with Baby’s speed.
A: Again, im very lenient on the whole other world cosmology scaling. I PERSONALLY don’t preach that it must be some outerversal reality or a 12D reality of sorts. But I know people do believe it does in fact have no flow of time. I’m just here to explain ALL possible interpretations and allow you to come up with your own conclusions. Hence why Baby’s speed was a topic I didn’t harp on too much compared to his power.
Q5. Dragon Ball heroes is not outerversal Numbers. What are you talking about?
A: Admittedly, I could have done better to further breakdown Heroes lore. However if you noticed, Baby barely has much of a presence in Heroes so it felt unnecessary to extend the video for another hour when Baby is not given much justification to have valid scaling to it. Even if I said Heroes was Complex Multiversal or something less exaggerated than Outerversal, people would still question if Baby can be allowed the same scaling all because of minor cameos. Hence why I somewhat jokingly yet acknowledge the Dr.Slump scaling and Sugoroku space lore IN CASE people think its totally valid to claim he can reach those levels. Thats up to you of course if that is consistent or not.
Q6: How valid are the guidebooks you used?
A: Much like most sources, its a case-by-case topic. The perfect files, daizenshuu, and chouzenshuu are valid materials, while others like GT La Revista or the Spanish DBS Guidebook were more so non-Shueisha supplementary material. Again, this video IS a composite overview of baby, so I still consider it applicable. Even the official guidebooks have minor errors, but even Toriyama finds them valid to use, so trying to devalue the entire sets of books for the sake of having a biased opinion because of a grammar mistake or whatever is not a valid excuse for me to ignore the material so long as it provides a noncontradictory evidence.
Btw, i did make a minor mistake, Giru did not in fact showed goku use SSJ1 against ledgic to the Sigma Force. He did obviously use the form for the fight but I guess Giru was not able to record such battle data or lied about such info.
Anyways, Long story short, GT is not as strong as people make it out to be. I don’t support the need to overhype GT just for the sake of hating on Super. That said, please try to be civilized when discussing with others about GT and Super scaling. I don’t hate GT more or less than I do Super. It doesn’t change the fact I want to be consistent to the information provided and make an entertaining video for the community to get a kick out of it. Otherwise, you do you, i’m just an idiot with too much free time. :)
Haven't finished the video but I'm glad you scaled without using the movies, it always sat wrong with me that they were assumed to be cannon to GT, plus movie scaling is utter glazing anyway.
I think even if Giru showed Super Saiyan, Goku might transformed just to flex and probably held back a lot of his power moreso than when he fought Rildo in Base. Even against Rildo he transformed just to flex, tho he might have needed it against Hyper Meta Rildo.
Basically Toe didn't think this through for everything he wrote, the files are unreliable, the wordings are vague, and the abilities are all nuanced. Sounds to me people need to stop going with basic statements and go strictly with context given.
I love how looking at the fight simpler, it’s just Goku vs Vegeta at the end of the day, and technically we see a technically mutated ssj3 vegeta, Along with 2 new forms from the 2 Saiyans (golden ape and ss4)
which is why one of the things where GT dropped the ball is the potential introduction of SSJ3 vegeta
@@ultragarrisondude... respectfully, shut up... you’re making me even more sad at the thought that we could’ve finally gotten a badass moment where GT Vegeta uses SSJ3 😢
2 things that make me depressed about GT, 1: how we could’ve seen a SSJ3 GT Vegeta kick butt, and 2: how they just disrespected Uub throughout the Show, giving him 1 good moment and then tossing him away... 😢
@ its just logical criticism and such criticism is why Super was a great show. Having fights between SSJ2 and SSJ3, Future Trunks having his moments. Either way, GT is now being viewed in a more positive light amongst DB fans with the release of Super. Its definitely an interesting chapter in the DB saga despite being non-canon.
@@ultragarrison fr though, GT has reasonable criticism, but at the same time, some criticisms that are just straight mindless hate (especially when some of these criticisms in GT, are in Super aswell), but I’ll be honest, Super was in no way a great show, it has a lotta, if not as much criticism as GT has, but then again, both have good things about them, it’s also interesting to see how DB will go now with the better light GT has now.
@@ultragarrison Non-canon to what? it's cannon to the Z anime.
Wasn’t expecting a Baby video. Neat! And good video as per usual. Also cool intro bit and insert “stalling for Broly” comment here.
No disagreements with anything, only a few thoughts on about 3 things that came to mind
Movies to GT:
Never subscribed to the movies (whether as desperate continuities or some loose single continuity or “diemension”) and GT being a single continuity though always thought it was funny. There’s also the fact that Vegeta says he saw the Fusion technique from the afterlife as well inside of Buu, so that already explains his knowledge of the forms.
Some higher end GT scaling ideas:
For higher end scaling for some of the GT characters, I guess there is the fact that the Sigma Force seemed to be possibly around the ball park of Luud upon their first appearance (if you think that what he meant by ‘a strong power he hasn’t felt in a while.’ The base Saiyans by M-2 seem to be stronger if Pan knocking someone with Rilldo’s current power is impressive, yet Goku finding base Trunks losing to Rilldo incredibly suspicious (When trunks reveals he did it on purpose.) I guess there’s also all 3 Saiyans scarring Baby individually after he absorbed Rilldo’s power (at whatever level you think).
I’ve seen other topics like ‘how much power did he take from Goten when possessing Gohan and was that energy added to Baby Gohan’s base?’ or if Goten got a zenkai after that. All of this just being fuel for however idea of a SSJ3 GT Gotenks at that point being useless against Baby but not SSJ4 Goku. Especially depending how strong you think SSJ Vegito is compared to Buuhan/Kid Buu. Is interesting to see how people scale GT and the GT vs Super wars are just funny to me.
Golden Oozaru multiplier:
As far as the Golden Oozaru form, I think it’s kind of “potential unlock” like rules where it’s basically just using whatever the “true” power is of the user with SS4, practically being a controlled version which could also make it stronger if you think increased “shōki” or “right mindedness” translates to that. Especially if you think SSJ Baby is strong enough to tank SSJ3 Goku, and he receives more ki (that goes into his base form) in addition to his later 2 forms. GO’s multiplier would just have to be stronger than that for Goku and Baby’s GO multiplier would probably be higher than that to surpass initial SSJ4 Goku.
Also 17M times boost for GO?! I’ve always heard 10,000x boost as a highball because of the 1,000x blutz waves. That’s kinda hilarious but then again I never thought he was “outerversal” or whatever the scaling term is. Maybe Baby does have INFINITE POWER
Hol' up he's in the B's that means he boutta drop the Broly video 🙏
I was gonna do this thing where I edited a comment as I watched the video with my thoughts but this video is so well constructed it ended up just me going “I agree”. Well done this is definitely one of my favorite GT scaling videos on this platform
So many people downplay GT characters when comparing to top tier z characters,GT goten and trunks low key smack kid buu easy
Not even lowkey. Characters like trunks, goten, and even pan are capable of one tapping characters like buutenks and vegito casually with 0 difficulty
@@OldFolkz Pan? Nah.
@dereklyma6310 nah she actually does... she oddly enough consistently scales to goku in base. examples she put hands on rildo, haze, oceanus etc. As odd as it is pan actually has some extreamly good feats and scaling just off of being around goku... the rildo bit alone just kind of means she negs cabba
@@OldFolkzeh... id say it’s debatable if Pan, GT Goten or GT Trunks could 1 tap Vegito... I mean, in GT (looking at the Baby Saga for now), GT Goku himself, after being one-shot by Baby Vegeta while in SSJ3, stated that Baby (Super Baby 1) had the strongest energy thats ever been felt in years (automatically making Super Baby 1 above SSJ Vegito, if not, comparable to a hypothetical SSJ2 Vegito, since Baby’s Forms while in Vegetas body, where compared to SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 respectfully)
a SSJ GT Goten and SSJ GT Gohan (who btw, was stated that he’s kept up with his training, while still keeping up with his Work), couldn’t even compare to a Base GT Goku, SSJ GT Trunks seems to be fairly relative to SSJ GT Goten to an extent, so the same outcome would still happen, Pan is no better, as she couldn’t even compare to a Base GT Gohan, but it’s easy to look at Base GT Goku, as those 4 Characters are no where close to Base GT Goku, who at that point, was no where even close to Baby Vegeta and especially Super Baby 1.
In conclusion, they ain’t doing anything to Vegito............ yet... as looking past Baby Saga, that’s when the debatably part comes in, as in the Super 17 Saga, a Base GT Goten was curb stomping General Rildo, and a Base GT Trunks 1 tapped General Rildo, who was strong enough to force GT Goku into SSJ (before GT Goku met Baby that is, but that’s still impressive, as General Rildo was the stronger then Buu, where before that, GT Goku, Uub, and GT Vegeta, where the only ones stronger then Buu at that point, far far surpassing Kid Buu in Base to a crazy extent), and then of course there’s in the Shadow Dragon Saga how Pan could kinda help out with the Shadow Dragons, excluding Naturan Shenron, Rage Shenron, Eis Shenron, Nouva Shenron or Syn Shenron.
@@_DatDaft_ hence even more proof dbs curbstomps GT 🙏
Low Multi with infinite speed seems the most reasonable in all honesty.
Low ball
It is but DB tards will never admit it and will always highball/super wank the verse above and beyond
One "what if" I always wanted from Heroes was a Super Saiyan 4 Baby Vegeta and it never happened :(
numberZ uploading 2 videos in a month?! boundless level++
Look Numbers...BABY IS OUTER RRRAGGHHH
Neat, my favorite villain next to Z Broly.
I see Cooler also just as a cameo and not as the same person from DBZ Movie 5. It is just an easter egg like how people wear shirts saying Super Saiyan despite not knowing what a Saiyan is in-story.
Regarding the Movie 12 thingy, I only recall the anime mentioning the fusion dance with Vegeta once and it was implied that Vegeta knows about how to perform it. Some of the feats might apply not because the movies took place but Goku showing hints of similar feats like shacking hell and the entry to the afterlife by powering up in base form.
Wish a whole video was dedicated to the CHAD General Rildo but still nice seeing him make a cameo and somewhat get talked about.
I don't believe Vegeta was stronger at the time than Goku but that Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan on earth and Baby didn't want Goku's body specifically. Also I find it odd that Baby looks different when possessing Vegeta. I assume he turned him to a permanent host and that allows him to combine the full potential of both Baby and Vegeta.
Regarding the reason why the Perfect Files 1 consider Baby the strongest fighter in the series is because the Perfect Files are a collection of Dragon Ball GT comics that were published at the time. At the time the part with Baby being the strongest was released, there were no Super 17 or Omega Shenron. So one has to be careful with the information given.
Tenkaichi 1 letting Baby fight Gogeta is mindblowing because there are 2 Vegetas? How can Baby possess Vegeta while Goku is fused with Vegeta? Questionable choice.
Great video!
Friendly reminder that GT is canon to the Z anime.
Bruh it aint
@ Weird how the ending of Z says “to be continued in GT” then.
Both super and gt are lol just different timelines 😂is that simple
Da Baby powerscaling? Les go
Hopefully i don't see any gt downplay but considering most people are dumb enough to believe cabba can beat gogeta i don't have much hope for the dbz community anymore
Its BASE cabba to you.
@calebehhh-jx7ic he loses to pan.
Agenda has to be kept 🫡
@OldFolkz Realistically he prolly beats pan high diff. Anything above pan beats cabba though
@calebehhh-jx7ic respectfully he doesn't even reach pan. I'm trying to tell you she has too many showings of somehow scaling to base goku and that's more than enough to beat cabba
This is some horrible scaling baby is outerversal in base
I love this review! it was funny and I had some good laughs.❤
Bro still ducking the broly vid
Terrible scaling. Baby is Boundless tier + bare minimum. GT outscales DBS low balled.
We are not being serious bro 😭😭😭
@@gorillaman67 omg bro 😭😭😭😂😂😂 blud is 😂😂😂😂😂 bro thinks he 💀💀💀💀💀
Stfu Numbs glazer.
Let's be Real Og Dragon Ball out scales the Entirety of GT.🍷🗿
Alright, bet. Who beats who, the gods or the monkeys?
💯
Feels weird seeing another video so quickly
now just imagine that baby vegeta somehow found a way to go from ozaru form to ssj4
The feats in GT are insane
Monke Goku always solos
Super has no scaling. We have broly forcing two characters who is at the peak of power to fuse which is absurd or kefla one shoting a ssb kioken x10 goku which makes zero sense or base kefla was destroying god goku despite it literally being stated that fused might isn't enough to beat beerus or future trunks pulling a genki out of his ass and one shoting and a character that is beyond stronger than blue goku and vegeta. Despite the problems that GT has, i enjoy it and rewatched it compared to anything in super.
Why do people care so much about powerscaling and canon? Just watch the god damn show and stop treating it like a math exam. You’re meant to enjoy it. Every series is completely different
because its fun to talk about those things. Enjoyment and fun is subjective, and if powerscaling and theories about the canon are not enjoyable to you, don't waste time and energy on them.
This thing about the guide saying that Gohan GT never stopped training after the Buu Saga or the End of Z is bullshit in my opinion. It's clearly not what the character shows on screen.
Can be summed up by 2 things
Gohan barely being in fights
The fights he is in are those where
-he is holding back
-loses to hacks
-the bad guy is stronger than or as strong as goku
If gt is connected to movie timeline there is plenty stuff to prove he wasn't being rusty
What would " clearly " be showing that in ur opinion ?
Holy shit where are the "what if baby fully developed"
We need that!
Get ready for "Super Adult"
That’s adult baby I believe
Great video, when do you think the video on Toddler will drop?
22:19 I still think it’s funny is they were annoyed at goku for not trying to make it look like he tried to dodge the attack in any manner
All of the "infinite power" statements are just to hype the characters and they are not literal. I think Koyama said so on X/Twitter. Japanese culture does this a lot. The fact characters get tired proves they don't have infinite power, unless you want to tell me they get *infinitely* tired...
Infinite power is not infinite stamina
even Super does that with Kefla
Well they might as well be cuz they're not the primary basis here brother. Everyone and their momma in GT since initial level of Base Rildo is established stronger than dbz except Vegito , where Buu had already started going into infinites. So from then its about how many greater layers of infinite.
I like baby
very very strong
43 minutes of glaze
The kid buu statements of being the strongest majin buu In the anime is similar to the movie statements of "infinite power" which has been used multiple times one of the people who worked on the movie even confirmed it (i dont remember who but it was someone who had influence with the movies like coolers revenge and such) so it cant always be taken face value unless we wanking the characters just a bit more
It's not wank since feats support that too
16:52 its been referenced as an endless void of nothingness. So objectively it doesnt have time especially when you look at the green animal and his son. They played 6 billion something games in the dimension. Realistically thats like 1000 years in there and the kid never grew up yet in the time skip between episode 64 and 100 years later both of them died on the kais planet. kind of hard to justify that if time was flowing in that dimension. Also goku blew up the whole thing which is why he popped back up in space. He didnt open a portal to get out 😐.
Also you mentioned arale as a joke but unironically she is a valid scaling point for gt.
Interesting. That kind of didn’t really cross my mind. Not really agreeing or disagreeing but I think I did hear of a similar talking point from some other video a while ago. (Maybe it was a Saiyan Scholar video.) I guess if Sugoroku Space is known as a “space between dimensions” with those “dimensions” being dimensions of or “between time and space” the the bosses of Sugoroku Space not wanting Sugoro to leave could make sense.
There’s also that point that since Sugoro played almost 33B games, presumably if each of them happened consecutively and were 5mins it’d take 300 or so years to do. I always knew about the “wander forever statement” although one can wander in a limited area like a maze forever too.
Granted, I have heard that the tears in the sky being the dimension being destroyed when those were clearly just representatives of mouthes. When Goku fires a blast and hits what I assume is a “dimensional barrier” (however that can be defined), a huge white light does envelop the entire area. So whether you think Goku destroyed it or not, I guess it would be as if he was “spat out” considering he wouldn’t be able to exist in a dimension that was no longer there anymore.
And there was apparently no way they could even guess where they’d end up.
I think that might make sense with the teleportation zone being some sort of dimension that doesn’t account for time that can also spatially overlap dimension of wherever the point of entry and exit is too? (Though I don’t think all of this was really thought out when being written.)
Just thought of this too but if Baby’s Revenge Death Ball can intercept literal instantaneous movement after it’s already been initiated, then that’s kind of as effective as hitting someone back in time to stop them from launching and attack the already did, funnily enough. I don’t know what moving faster than what the natural flow of time would allow is called in power scaling terms. Was it “immeasurable speed?”
We know Sugoro and his son got stuck in there because of a worm hole and apparently (at least according to Dokkan Battle) might be what Baby’s RDB did. Especially if you think that it looked like Goku was falling into some sort of rift.
I guess the entire background of that teleportation zone does somewhat when the shockwave hits. The closest thing that’s visually comparable to is the WoV changing color in DBS if you think that has any significance.
W vid. I dont have anything clever to add.
Edit: DAS RITTTTTEEE!!!
NO FUCKING WAY. LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Daizenshu is the worst outdated source you could be siting
DB meat riders will forever use it regardless and continue to try and make Goku "Ultra maximum layers into irrelevant boundless" kinda stuff
@ they wouldn't even need that bs to wank goku if they actually paid attention to their story like theyre supposed to instead of zoning out for big strong fight
@@truthdemon105Idk about boundless but outer stuff is true since a certain point in GT and Super brother.
-How strong is General Blue
-How strong is mercenary Tao
-How strong is major Metallateon
Metallateon be like:
In DB: mountain level
In video games: Outerversal +
17:58 he didn't do that out of accident in the way you say though, the shockwaves sent Beerus and Goku flying twice and just kept getting stronger by traveling farther
19:48 ssj4 isn't labeled as "an ultimate form", it is outright "the ultimate form", if you disagree, well, know that the same way of saying "the ultimate x" is used for Vegito being the ultimate warrior and so on
it doesn't disprove ssj4>Ssg, rather chouzenshuu 4 proves jt
24:00 actually no, rather the whole narrative and even the episode title says that Goku simply took his ssj4 back to its full power, not getting it higher, the reason the times 10 Kamehameha didn't work was cuz both lost considerable amounts of strength, Goku more than likely lost more
So for the Vegito boost comparison, it mentioned ssj before that, so it more than likely refers to ssj vegito multiplier
HELL YEAH !
Lowball being Universal + is dumb ngl, Buuhan level characters are Universal, so Baby at his full power would without question be above it by large amount. It is still better compered to downplay Gt fanboys give it.
Also for the Blutz Waves thingy, even if Baby is given large amount of Blutz Waves needed, it does not change how strong form makes him but adds energy on top of his base strength, since damage is often shown to effect ki (Such as Gohan's arm being damaged by Cell cut his power in half), being given extra energy would heal his wounds. Pretty much the extra Blutz Wave just add more energy into his ki not add more power into his transformation.
How strong are the Shadow Dragons
His minimum is whatever the haki requirement as the revenge deathball is functional haki
How strong is Zahha next
Can you do super goku vs gt goku?
Had to stop watching when you acknowledged statements, or whatever it was, that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan/Buutenks, no thanks.
It was literally stated by Toriyama in a interview in which he said that Kid Buu is the most powerful Buu 🤣🤣🤣
Woooo Numbz
What was the green door called in the sugoroku space.
i think you're referring to the exit. Thats was what Goku was trying to use to escape the collapsing dimension but instead forced his way out after falling from the board game obstacles.
TL;DR
Mr Satan fodder
Uub next?
26:57 nope, it was comparing dbz vegito in general to ssj4 goku at that point
It was comparing multiplier
Nothing was comparing " dbz " Vegito to Ssj4 . The comparison in question is Vegito who has the capability of turning ssj , to Ssj4.
Super Baby Vegeta 2 is on par with a destroyer from DBS bare minimum.
Also that fact that you think buuhan is weaker than kid buu is such a fundamental mistake that it invalidates this entire video and proves yet again that dbz fans still can't read.
He's actually stronger than all of dbs as dbs is only one layer into outer so far. The whole sugoroku space section in this vid is pretty unreasonably downplayed but rest is alright. Man why is yt such a pain in the ass the comments just not go through sometimes , maybe i need to start making my own videos too 😂
Weaker than Base Cabba
Pls just let the meme die
He isn't but unfortunately most people are dumb enough to believe base cabba has a chance against most of the gt roster despite cabba being weaker than episode 1 gt goku... and funnily enough pan
@@Nota6693The brain ROT already consumed him
Who gets soloed by GT Pan .
GT Pan > Base Cabba > Dbs > a baby .
How strong is pikkon?
22:10 song name?
its called Dragon Ball GT Final Bout - Hero of Heroes. The HD CD rendition, not the in-game version.
@Numbers2133 Thx