Raise the rear a 1/4 inch and get a bigger rear sway, should help a lot😊 You can also try softening the front a few clicks on the coilovers, might be set too firm.
Wow this track looks like a dream. I wish we had wide open land like this in the north east. For your understeer problem have you tried trail braking/left foot braking? I really like to watch Misha chaldourin drive FWD cars on the nurburgring and learn from his technique
Still overdriving the car a bit. What is understeer for a FWD car? Braking while the tires are sideways. Gotta get the braking done to allow the tires to turn the car. If you're under steering before the apex you're not fully benefitting from the extra rotation you can get from the weight shift before the turn. Slow is fast.
Sometimes if you are understeering heavily you can/need to let up on the steering angle and then turn back in. Asking the front tire patch to do too much/too many things at once. Nevertheless, looks really fast and clean to me and you are using all of the track!
Spot on. His lines and overall driving is very good, but it looks like he is losing time at the exits of several corners because of too much steering angle and not straightening up quick enough, causing understeer.
Nice driving Fenton! So… did you cord your tires with only 3 days of use? That seems too quick for a 3150lb car. I wonder if your toe is set correctly. That wear plus the plowing in t2 might be an indication. Hmmm… On another note, I LOL’ed at your 1:24! I know all too well the frustration of missing a goal by .01!
Yeah only 3 days. Only the front outside tire corded. I was beating the **** out of it at both Thunderhill West private events. I had my front toe zero'd out a few weeks ago so it shouldn't be the issue.
My front right V730s blistered the same exact way at the end of day 4. We chatted at East a few months ago about how they would hold up. Interesting we had the same outcome.
Patience is absolutely necessary for FF car as you can’t induce oversteer like you can with FR. There is a such thing as too much camber (ploughing affect) and I’m wondering if you are dealing with that as well. If only we could adjust the LSD to get more locking if possible.
I learned from my first time on track that understeer was because of braking too late and acceleration too early. All about patience and slowly easing on gas as your unwinding the wheel out of a corner. The lines are also slightly different for FWD vs RWD as it seems like some corners, you’re apexing too early. You want to aim for the apex late and be further out before the turn and be almost straight after the corner
You don’t anticipate to be right behind someone in their dirty air. You won’t have as much downforce and the air is warmer. Like you were in the second session with a guy infront and right behind you.
Imo without being there to measure you camber and toe curves i would say you could handle a touch less rear camber and softening your front dampers a few clicks. You want the front end to transfer load laterally quicker than the rear. If you really love the front end feel of the car as it sits now then i would suggest stiffening the rear dampers. Be careful stiffening the rear dampers and decreasing static camber at the same time it can make lift off oversteer very aggressive if you are not accustomed to using it.
Definitely overdriving the front tires, especially in the slower corners where you're entering too hot and using the understeer to slow the car until it turns. That chassis seems to need a RSB to help with the push.
this is such hard decision tho.. in reality a stiffer rsb , front struts dampened down a few clicks would result in a better track exp. then what happens to my daily driveability?? 😭😭. ff is a pain to nail down dynamics wise but thats the game
I’ve gotta say the V730 understeered much more on my car than the RT660 did with the same exact setup otherwise. The sidewall flex gives them a sort of soft imprecise feeling mid-corner. They’re good cheap tires but you get what you pay for imo. I feel they would do better on a much lighter car, but even around the 3000 lb mark they seem to flex a little much for my liking.
I think you already know you are too aggressive to get back to full throttle at corner exit and are way over driving the tires. You can see it directly on the Garmin. You are ahead at corner entry in quite a few turns but as soon as you apex you get back to full throttle too fast. I would also recommend to try softening the front and taking a bit of camber out of the rear.
You need a much bigger rear sway bar, this should have been one of your first mods. I run the karcepts bar and at full stiff the car is very loose which works for autocross.
I'm not sure if this is relevant at all but I've been thinking about the difference in stiffness and how a tire will behave depending on the car's weight. RE71RS and V730 in my size tire (275/35/19) only come SL load rated, not XL. I wonder if an XL rated tire (which is what my car came with from factory) of the same compound and family of 200tw, would hold up better (or not)? I noticed someone mentioned the new Nexen; our friend shredded the outer shoulder at BWRP like you did on your V730. I'm thinking these are not tires you can just do hot laps back to back.
Glad you made this, just got camber plates for my rs3 guess i won't expect a huge difference. But hoping it will increase the life of my tires. The outsides wear so fast
Also this track looks amazing during the winter time with the green grass. Would love to come down to cali to check it out. Ridge motorsports park is my main track in WA
I put camber plates on both my Mk7 golf R and GTI and it changed the cars. Got a professional corner balance after both times, but turn in, mid corner grip, and oversteer was great after
@@ShaanNotShawn I didn't. I never installed a rear sway on either car like everybody recommends. It would probably help the car rotate a ton but I kind of like trail braking and flicking the car in lol. The GTI was tail happy as is, but you really had to try on the golf R. I would put a rear sway in on your rs3
@@cs2294 I would put a rear sway bar on any of them. The stock bar and plastic endlinks are just imprecise. Not only does the aftermarket rear bar make it easier to induce oversteer, but it’s also more controlled oversteer, and more planted when you don’t want oversteer. Just makes the rear of the car feel a lot more buttoned down.
Great vid, but WHAT is telling you to apex earlier and brake less?!? are those notes you made? or is it some sort of GPS gear? please let me know, as a track instructor that sounded extremely intriguing.
What are you using to adjust your Rear Camber???? I purchase Lowering Springs for my 24 Type-S and wanted to get sone Camber adjustment Rear.??? BtW great videos love the info
@@Zygrene Highly suggest you practice on a simulator. They have laser scanned Thunderhill on Assetto Corsa, with all layouts, great way to improve your finesse. You can also try things you can't in real life, like left foot braking. With a FWD trail braking, and blending throttle and brake is the key to getting the rotation on slow corners. Also if you use a lot of throttle and steering inputs simultaneously it's hard on the CV joints. RWD cars don't have that issue.
Same tires I got. I use them for autocross. Several drivers agree these are good tires. Never been on a road course as of yet, but I can imagine the inherent demands of a FWD (double duty performing steering and acceleration simultaneously) is what attributes to the shredded tire...not to mention your lack of mechanical sympathy 😥 😁
1. Thunderhill West favors lightweight cars. 2. With the same tires, I would have been significantly (over 1 second) quicker than both S2000s. 3. And most importantly, I can drive myself and 3 friends home in comfort, and stop by Costco along the way.
@@Zygrene LOL them buck fiddy hot dogs and a drink dont lie! Three friends and a full Costco haul for the week. Back by 9pm and ready for a drive to work the next day.
as a recent new type s owner, i really look forward to your type s trackday videos
Raise the rear a 1/4 inch and get a bigger rear sway, should help a lot😊
You can also try softening the front a few clicks on the coilovers, might be set too firm.
Wow this track looks like a dream. I wish we had wide open land like this in the north east. For your understeer problem have you tried trail braking/left foot braking? I really like to watch Misha chaldourin drive FWD cars on the nurburgring and learn from his technique
Still overdriving the car a bit. What is understeer for a FWD car? Braking while the tires are sideways. Gotta get the braking done to allow the tires to turn the car. If you're under steering before the apex you're not fully benefitting from the extra rotation you can get from the weight shift before the turn. Slow is fast.
a stiffer RSB is really needed after all in FF, to match that front end dartiness of the new set up.
Sometimes if you are understeering heavily you can/need to let up on the steering angle and then turn back in. Asking the front tire patch to do too much/too many things at once. Nevertheless, looks really fast and clean to me and you are using all of the track!
Spot on. His lines and overall driving is very good, but it looks like he is losing time at the exits of several corners because of too much steering angle and not straightening up quick enough, causing understeer.
I’ll add that he’s still driving this car like an FR. It’s tough going from FR to FF but he’s getting better every lap!
Adding 1/16 of toe out in the rear with the kacepts 0.188 rsb did the trick for me
I trying the eagle f1 supercar 3R next summer
Nice driving Fenton! So… did you cord your tires with only 3 days of use? That seems too quick for a 3150lb car. I wonder if your toe is set correctly. That wear plus the plowing in t2 might be an indication. Hmmm…
On another note, I LOL’ed at your 1:24! I know all too well the frustration of missing a goal by .01!
Yeah only 3 days. Only the front outside tire corded. I was beating the **** out of it at both Thunderhill West private events. I had my front toe zero'd out a few weeks ago so it shouldn't be the issue.
Sick driving! Can’t wait to see you break 1:24. A windsock on the mic would be great so we can hear more of the car but love the videos either way
My front right V730s blistered the same exact way at the end of day 4. We chatted at East a few months ago about how they would hold up. Interesting we had the same outcome.
Yeah, this car chews through front tires. I need to be smoother with my inputs to preserve tire life.
Patience is absolutely necessary for FF car as you can’t induce oversteer like you can with FR. There is a such thing as too much camber (ploughing affect) and I’m wondering if you are dealing with that as well. If only we could adjust the LSD to get more locking if possible.
The way he fought some of that understeer had me curious if it was plowing too
Play with toe out in the rear it will help the understeer by bringing the rear end around in turns.
I learned from my first time on track that understeer was because of braking too late and acceleration too early. All about patience and slowly easing on gas as your unwinding the wheel out of a corner. The lines are also slightly different for FWD vs RWD as it seems like some corners, you’re apexing too early. You want to aim for the apex late and be further out before the turn and be almost straight after the corner
Damn, when you have someone to chase, that's when we really do 10/10ths. You were absolutely killing it
You don’t anticipate to be right behind someone in their dirty air. You won’t have as much downforce and the air is warmer. Like you were in the second session with a guy infront and right behind you.
"Understeeeeeeer" had me rolling 🤣
You could try a staggered setup with 285s up front and 265 rear. Or 275 front 255 rear.
Good driving. Late apex and that rear end will rotate. FF chassis liked to be driven that way.
Imo without being there to measure you camber and toe curves i would say you could handle a touch less rear camber and softening your front dampers a few clicks. You want the front end to transfer load laterally quicker than the rear. If you really love the front end feel of the car as it sits now then i would suggest stiffening the rear dampers. Be careful stiffening the rear dampers and decreasing static camber at the same time it can make lift off oversteer very aggressive if you are not accustomed to using it.
Definitely overdriving the front tires, especially in the slower corners where you're entering too hot and using the understeer to slow the car until it turns. That chassis seems to need a RSB to help with the push.
this is such hard decision tho.. in reality a stiffer rsb , front struts dampened down a few clicks would result in a better track exp. then what happens to my daily driveability?? 😭😭. ff is a pain to nail down dynamics wise but thats the game
I’ve gotta say the V730 understeered much more on my car than the RT660 did with the same exact setup otherwise. The sidewall flex gives them a sort of soft imprecise feeling mid-corner. They’re good cheap tires but you get what you pay for imo. I feel they would do better on a much lighter car, but even around the 3000 lb mark they seem to flex a little much for my liking.
Maybe try those Re71rs. The photo of the tires at the end was shocking.
I think you already know you are too aggressive to get back to full throttle at corner exit and are way over driving the tires. You can see it directly on the Garmin. You are ahead at corner entry in quite a few turns but as soon as you apex you get back to full throttle too fast. I would also recommend to try softening the front and taking a bit of camber out of the rear.
Great work on that 1:24
Damn sure got your money's worth on those tires. Nice laps
You need a much bigger rear sway bar, this should have been one of your first mods. I run the karcepts bar and at full stiff the car is very loose which works for autocross.
Karcepts is good stuff 👌
I'm not sure if this is relevant at all but I've been thinking about the difference in stiffness and how a tire will behave depending on the car's weight. RE71RS and V730 in my size tire (275/35/19) only come SL load rated, not XL. I wonder if an XL rated tire (which is what my car came with from factory) of the same compound and family of 200tw, would hold up better (or not)? I noticed someone mentioned the new Nexen; our friend shredded the outer shoulder at BWRP like you did on your V730.
I'm thinking these are not tires you can just do hot laps back to back.
Glad you made this, just got camber plates for my rs3 guess i won't expect a huge difference. But hoping it will increase the life of my tires. The outsides wear so fast
Also this track looks amazing during the winter time with the green grass. Would love to come down to cali to check it out. Ridge motorsports park is my main track in WA
I put camber plates on both my Mk7 golf R and GTI and it changed the cars. Got a professional corner balance after both times, but turn in, mid corner grip, and oversteer was great after
@@cs2294 did you have aftermarket sway bars installed at that point? I still don't have one.
@@ShaanNotShawn I didn't. I never installed a rear sway on either car like everybody recommends. It would probably help the car rotate a ton but I kind of like trail braking and flicking the car in lol. The GTI was tail happy as is, but you really had to try on the golf R. I would put a rear sway in on your rs3
@@cs2294 I would put a rear sway bar on any of them. The stock bar and plastic endlinks are just imprecise. Not only does the aftermarket rear bar make it easier to induce oversteer, but it’s also more controlled oversteer, and more planted when you don’t want oversteer. Just makes the rear of the car feel a lot more buttoned down.
Great driving!
Nexen Sport Rs are currently the talk of the town in SoCal
Interesting. Faster than V730, but slower than RE71RS I'm guessing?
Great vid, but WHAT is telling you to apex earlier and brake less?!? are those notes you made? or is it some sort of GPS gear? please let me know, as a track instructor that sounded extremely intriguing.
Garmin Catalyst
Yup, Garmin Catalyst with Advanced Coaching turned on
Nice runs!
I wonder if because the rear wheel and tires are to aggressive
What are you using to adjust your Rear Camber???? I purchase Lowering Springs for my 24 Type-S and wanted to get sone Camber adjustment Rear.??? BtW great videos love the info
I don't have any rear camber adjustment. Lowering the car on Öhlins got me to -2.3 rear camber
Get a tune and you will be at 1:23 for sure ;)
Have you had any cooling issues? My FL5 is getting the oil pretty hot after 10 minutes or so of hot lapping
Curious, what tire pressures are you running before a session like this? (sorry if I missed it in the vid)
Wtf is that noise saying? Might has well have raceing line on.
Your insights make each video a must-watch for car enthusiasts. We sent you an email, please take a look.
Great driving! What tire pressures are you running cold and hot?
Cold is around 25 F, 28 R. Hot is around 34-35 F and R
@@Zygrene This might be a dumb question but would raising rear tire pressure more help understeer? or just make it worse
Brz looked more fun, this is understeer central
Falken RT660's are faster. For me though the V730's are the best combination of longevity price and performance.
If RT660 will wear out in less than 3 events, then I'm in trouble lol
@@Zygrene Highly suggest you practice on a simulator. They have laser scanned Thunderhill on Assetto Corsa, with all layouts, great way to improve your finesse. You can also try things you can't in real life, like left foot braking. With a FWD trail braking, and blending throttle and brake is the key to getting the rotation on slow corners. Also if you use a lot of throttle and steering inputs simultaneously it's hard on the CV joints. RWD cars don't have that issue.
In my opinion youre not supposed to add 3 degrees :)
Do you miss RWD when dealing with all that understeer ? Seems like the opposite of the fun that overdriving a RWD car provides ...
Same tires I got. I use them for autocross. Several drivers agree these are good tires. Never been on a road course as of yet, but I can imagine the inherent demands of a FWD (double duty performing steering and acceleration simultaneously) is what attributes to the shredded tire...not to mention your lack of mechanical sympathy 😥 😁
That looks like so much fun.
RT660!
Understeer for days
Dude we know understeer
You will get oversteer in real wheel also…you on the track
Man you got like $65k into this thing in total and cant keep up with N/A s2000 what a disappointment
1. Thunderhill West favors lightweight cars.
2. With the same tires, I would have been significantly (over 1 second) quicker than both S2000s.
3. And most importantly, I can drive myself and 3 friends home in comfort, and stop by Costco along the way.
We can throw an Altima engine on top of a go-kart and make the same argument against any car on the track.
You're the disappointment.
@@Zygrene LOL them buck fiddy hot dogs and a drink dont lie! Three friends and a full Costco haul for the week. Back by 9pm and ready for a drive to work the next day.
Not to mention you can actually carry 4 wheels/tires in the trunk so you can swap to track tires once you get to the track