CTA’s Missing Line
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- @CTAConnections, y’all need this
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:29 Why Do We Need This?
0:57 Where Would This Line Go?
1:51 How Would This Line Be Built?
3:11 Where Would It Stop?
4:46 Conclusion 
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Building the line along the Belt Railway of Chicago whould be a breeze! It paralells Cicero avenue for the most part, and would still have a good connection to Metra.
This is the way. You could even potentially connect all the way to Jefferson Park utilizing the Metra rails by either third rail powering one track, or utilizing BMUs on this new service, something I'd love to see the CTA explore more anyway as I think some creative connections with Metra would be possible if CTA rolling stock didnt exclusively rely on third rail power.
This is very similar to the Mid-City Transitway that was proposed a while back, alongside an underused rail corridor roughly two blocks east of Cicero. I believe the plan was to connect to the Blue Line around Montrose or Jefferson Park, which would've given O'Hare and Midway a much-needed direct transit connection. I also believe the plan was to extend this line, as well as the Orange Line, to Ford City Mall around 76th Street.
I think thats also why there was an extra unused bridge that split off from the turn near the current Yellow Line Oakton station. The idea was to have a northern terminus at Old Orchard, and have one line go straight instead of turning, following near Skokie Boulavard/Cicero
It's interesting to suggest Cicero Ave. It is a State highway that sometimes acts like highway, with not a lot of density on it.
In my opinion I think down Western ave would be more beneficial and would still connect almost all the lines. But on Western it would have to be a cut and cover Subway.
Western looks like it's pretty wide (the parallel Ave and Blvd in the south city is a crazy setup) but my one reservation is it's sort of close to the loop, closer than the other options. If building a cross-town line, would it be better to double-down on transit density near the Loop or build the line further west?
What I do like about Western is that it'd be reasonable to extend the Green Line west from Ashland to form an easy transfer.
@@sebastianjoseph2828 I was on that mess recently for jury duty at 26th & California; took me looking at satellite photos on mapping sites to sort out exactly where I was going. The Loop is dying as crime and work from home drive companies out of expensive real estate leasing to the suburbs.
I ALWAYS think this about Western. I'd even settle for an ACTUAL light rail that runs in the center and has traffic light preemption. No streetcars, those are tragic. We also desperately need a straight East/West light rail in so many places. I always think 35th, 59th, 79th, North Ave, Irving Park or Montrose, and Belmont
@@frojo9 Light rail IS 'streetcars', just with a new name.
@@markh.6687light rail runs in exclusive right of way for a majority of its route. Streetcar is a fancy bus that runs in shared right of way with traffic
You mentioned subway being costlier but better than elevated to avoid noise near residential, but looking at Cicero Ave it looks like it's all commercial or industrial along most of its length, with residential half a block away or more. Modern elevated concrete structures, like DC's metro, are much quieter and can be built faster. Tunneling is expensive and cut/cover disrupts traffic/building access/trees more than building an elevated viaduct, so I think construction should opt for els.
I've thought of what a non-loop line could look like before but as a non-local I thought a line along Kedzie that jogs over to Kimball to end at the brown line terminus would be nice. Admittedly it's a smaller road than Cicero and would miss the connection to MD-W and MD-N lines.
Imo the hardest part is Portage Park/Belmont Cragin.
I live in the area, and arguably the stretch of Cicero between The Kennedy/Edens going south to around Grand is a little tricky as that is very residential and almost has a suburban feel to it. As much as I would love a train (and while they're at it, a train line on Belmont or Fullerton or something), i dont know how many of the people here would be happy about a new noise maker. South of Grand it becomes mostly commercial/industrial with small spots of nearby residential all the way to Ford City. Imo I think using the new concrete supports that the Red line is doing would be a good option if you must go elevated.
I agree that the best choice for a crosstown CTA line is via the Belt Railway of Chicago. It would offer the city enormous new redevelopment opportunities. Maybe run thence along the Skokie Valley trail (ex CNW Mayfair-St. Francis bypass direct to the Yellow line. )
It would have been nice to show the location of the stops you suggest instead of stock footage of scenery passing by the train window.
1) that is why a Western BRT route is being proposed. If a Cicero rapid transit was ever built from North Ave to Montrose would need a few more stops as it is a denser area. I used to live 1 block away from Cicero btwn Diversey and Belmont so I know of what i speak.
The area is getting denser now. There's newer apartment buildings and a starbucks now! Can't wait till the Whole Foods moves in.
The Green Line was moved from street-level to the CNW trackage in 1962. The Cicero Line could be built along the existing Chicago Belt Railway right of way which parallels Cicero Avenue about two blocks east. This is roughly where Richard J. Daley wanted to put in the Crosstown Expwy back in the late 1960s. Nice video. Thanks for sharing.
I was wondering if the Crosstown Expressway would get mentioned.
A serious transit agency would have active proposals for both Cicero and Western Aves…as well a bunch of other projects like 63rd, Lawrence, etc. In the current environment, it takes about a decade to go from planning to building a major project. Having *none* of these projects in the works means the system will be stuck in the past for decades to come.
Building this line would spur some development along the corridor, but also consider that this line would pass near the heavily populated Austin neighborhood so ridership may not be a large issue. I would also imagine some travelers would use this line to go between O'Hare and Midway airports.
I see so much bus ridership off the ORD branch of the Blue line heading down to the Belmont areas - there's always going to be some level of bus connection, but 5 blocks vs 20 blocks on a bus is a huge time saver
In reference to the the line not necessarily having the demand:
They did a study for a crosstown line, and they found out that the line would be both expensive and WELL used. Needless to say, they figured they couldn't get the money and left it at that.
Of course, they ended up spending one billion dollars to build the Millennial Park, and that could have at least gotten the Cicero portion of the Crosstown built (what you suggested, although they thought about going down the railroad right of way for that).
theres nothing out by cicero. western ave would be a better choice for this imo.
There are plenty of people who live near Cicero, and part of the incentive to build a line is that it could spur development
@@madduxsmith382the video mentioned how western crosses the brown line, blue line twice, green line (no station), pink and orange lines.
this is mainly why i say western over cicero, more potential connections.
@@citizenstranger I know, but Western is relatively close to downtown and other transit options, while Cicero is underserved. A bus rapid Transit line on western could also be an option because it is a very heavily traveled corridor
Cicero is basically the border street, where a lot of people gather round, especially since the ring of bungalows is very prevalent there. It's in the middle bit where there's not much due to overall neglect of the area, but imagine a new train line that connects to other train lines. That must get some developers building new housing in the area.
@@madduxsmith382how about extending the kimball subway to branch off north and south of the blue line? belmont and logan square can be transfer platforms.
I like that this proposal provides some areas that are further away from existing rail lines than others. A line along Cicero could create an incentive for new housing. With the Brown Line extension, it makes a great connection for Midway and O'Hare that doesn't require going through the loop.
That is a good idea.
I like your proposal for the most part. However, it leaves out the South Side. Perhaps after the Midway-Jefferson Park portion is built, the line could be extended southeast to connect with Metra lines at 79th/Kedzie and 87th/Vincennes, then the Red Line at 95th/State, finally terminating at the Metra Electric at 111th St in Pullman. I know this "pie in the sky," but one can dream.
AGREED. I'd also hugely appreciate some BRT to improve west/east connection. Going from the far north to O'Hare is a nightmare, because you HAVE to go to the loop and then take the Blue line northwest.
There is the new pulse dempster line, which is an express bus on the 250 route
Good frequency and it goes all the way to Davis street so you could take it to UP-N or purple line
I used to live in Oak Park and work near O'Hare. A pain to drive, so I took, if I remember correctly, three connecting bus lines (including Pace) to do it. It was a pain in the butt because if I missed one of the buses, which happened the first week I tried this, I was stranded for an hour. So I switched to taking the Green line all the way downtown, then transferring to the Blue line - or, sometimes, just taking the Blue line from Oak Park - then catching a bus at Rosemont, or taking it all the way to O'Hare and catching a bus there. Also a pain in the butt, and it took so long. A crosstown connector line would have been an improvement, but still a bit of a pain - three trains and a bus. And I hated that job.
If you go even more south on the cicero line at 95th a short walk and you would be at metra Oakawn station. And a multitude of bus routes at midway orange line
I agree that the rail corridor east of Cicero is the logical north-south route. But a great cross-town rapid transit line would not only connect Jefferson Park to Midway. It would also connect Midway to South Works, running east-west along 83rd or 87th or 95th street (or parallel rail corridors). It would connect to the Red Line and several Metra lines, ending with a connection to the Metra Electric South Chicago branch. Envisioning it this way, and starting on the Far South Side, would build a much broader political coalition to get this done.
You would want this to connect a second time to the blue line for a more direct connection to O'Hare, western Chicagoans would not have to go all the way downtown just to go back northwest and you would not have to use that secluded Metra stop (Metra North Central Line terminating at Antioch), on the east side of the parking garage at the airport train endstation to get into the various terminals, although you still could if you wanted a faster approach to the international terminal.
Although that O'Hare Metra Station does have a shuttle bus as well.....
This is a really great idea. I feel light rail would be a better fit on this corridor.
Let's get this done.
Well you do remember back about in the 2000s there was the x54 bus. I remember using that x54 bus. Unfortunately it got hacked in the February 2010 cuts. I think people did use it. It wasn't the busiest bus in the world but I know a lot of people did use it. I used to ride the x54 just to go out and have a nice bus ride. And I did write it from Jefferson Park down to Midway airport.
The subway choice would be best. This allows the catchment area served to be very compact around stations along Cicero and its intersections with other East-west thoroughfares.
Boring tunneling technology is maturing and it is only going to get better. To avoid the graft infrastructure projects in the US face up until now, the RTA (or IDOT or CDOT) should simply by its own boring machines, hire workers to operate them and competent their tasks, and then at most competitively bid for consultant contractors for advising the project (to the extent such knowledgeable boring and infrastructure construction supervisors and managers can’t be economically hired outright).
For such a major project, we should also be looking into maglev technology like Transraoid and china’s nascent technology for the project. Maglev is costly upfront, but its operating costs are lower, and maintenance is dramatically lower because of the solid state nature of the technology, with no friction or moving parts.
Eventually, we might look to rebuilding existing rapid transit and commuter lines with such rapid transit maglev and then allow for a diversity of routes moving from one radial line to the crosstown rim and then to another radial line. With a high initial investment in fixed assets and such very low operating and maintenance costs, as we get with rapid transit maglev, the most efficient use is very high frequency (up to levels with still safe headways) and highly diverse routes.
This is the sort of vision infrastructure planning should bring is rather than just more of the same traffic congestion car-centered dystopia we have gotten so far (from for example, the Chicago Area Transportation Study-CATS).
I have been advocating in YT comments for a Cicero line for awhile and love the thought, but I'd turn it into an Outer Loop - North, I'd turn to follow Lawrence w/ connection to Kimball 🟤 Ravenswood Metra, and Lawrence 🔴.
South, I'd bring it across 95th w/ multiple Metra connections & 95th 🔴 ending at S Chi 93rd Metra (there's also a RR ROW along 95th E of Dan Ryan).
Lawrence would connect N Shore to ORD via Montrose 🔵 and alleviate heavy traffic on Lawrence. 95th would provide E/W ties to 95th 🔴 and connect S Shore to MDW.
You said that a full subway along Cicero might not be feasible and the feds would push for light rail or worse bus rapid transit; so if I were the CTA I would push for a light metro like Vancouver's Skytrain with an eye towards converting the rest of the system to driverless automatic. I would also like to extend the Skokie Line up to the Wisconsin state line along the old interurban right of way, and maybe convert it to regional rail.
If you look at the map of the Chicago L, you will see that several lines run along Ashland Avenue (or more precisely, Paulina Avenue, which is one block west). The Brown Line, the original route of the Logan Square L (when it was a branch of the Garfield Park line), and of course the Pink Line all run along Paulina Avenue. Might there have been unfinished plans for a crosstown L along that route? It's too close to downtown for that purpose today, but I like the Belt Railway of Chicago route near Cicero Avenue.
What you're seeing are remnants of the Metropolitan West Side Elevated, a private company that gave us the precursors to the green line as well as the portion of the NW blue line that runs elevated from Damen to California
A Cicero Ave. rapid transit line should access the rights of way of the Kenton Sub and the Cragin Industrial Lead. The initial operating segment should run from Jefferson Park to the north to Midway Airport to the south.
Later, a southern extension should be built to Ford City, and continuing on to either the Oak Lawn Southwest Service station at 95th St. and 52nd Av. or a new Southwest Service station at Cicero Av. (approx. 93rd Pl.)
Whenever possible, CTA rapid transit lines should locate their outer termini at or very near a Metra station, with that Metra line serving as a collector and disbursal point, increasing travel options.
I'd suggest an outer loop - Lawrence, Cicero, 95th w/ termini at Lawrence 🔴 and S Chi 93rd Metra
I had this same idea when theorising good new lines! Im so glad more people agree with me, theres already a right of way there!
Western Ave is a heavily used transit corridor, so I would personally choose that over Cicero. Maybe Pulaski Rd. But Cicero Ave might be too far west to get the ridership needed for the funding to get approved. But, this is just my two cents.
Belmont Cragin will bring ridership to Cicero.
There's not far to go along bus 49 on Western for the Northside to reach an L that'll go where you want
@@jonathanbott87 Yeah, I've been thinking. If Norwood Park and Jefferson Park get L service via the Blue Line, Belmont Cragin definitely deserves L service. Plus, if Western Ave is chosen, the northern sections will end up running too close to the Red Line, because doesn't the Red Line run close to Clark St?
The silver line would use four door cars with 60’ car length.
If I-494 had been built, this line would probably already exist.
Where was that 494 going?
I just know of the one jays now going around the west side of ORD 90 to 294.
It would be nice to have Skokie Swift Service Rush Hour service to the Loop and back Mondays-Fridays!
Elevated in Chicago is beautiful. It would be a great idea if it started at O’hare and ended at Midway. That crosstown service would be beneficial for so many and save a lot of time.
Bet it had an interurban on it once
A lot of areas had interurbans. But then buses became available and more flexible as to routing. When PACE buses come down my sidestreet in the burbs, I know Halsted Street is blocked with an accident again.
I love your ideas! Although, I'll admit, create a map at 3:41 and later because when you started naming streets, I got lost most of the time and started daydreaming of a circle line and Chicago hot dogs!
Western Avenue is the best corridor because it is parallel to Railroad Right of Way and within close proximity to destinations
I have thought about this a long time, but frankly, the issue is that it would take all the riffraff and lunatics from the south and west sides and bring them up north.
They can do a light rail line. It is cheaper than a subway line. They should see a feasibility study.
Light metro line, not a tramway. Trams get caught in traffic because the signal priority never materializes.
Cicero is too tight a road and too far west. Western Ave is a better choice. Also it doesn't need to be a full heavy metro compatible with the L. Light rail would work well with the likely passenger load. Use grade separation sparingly to jump over major intersections, crossing barriers for the rest. Operating speeds of ~45 mph are possible with adequate protection. Irving Park Road could host a similar build.
The Belt Railway is in heavy use by freight trains. Take it over for a moderate demand transit line and that's a lot of new trucks on the road for not that many cars off the road. It is a wide corridor and could accommodate a transit line with a careful design, but the major railroad users are very uncooperative. Just because it's "already there" doesn't mean it's worth the bother to build out.
Radial lines heavely depend on riders, no natural public. Little nearer to town include all lines but a car driven traffic will never change very fast !😊
What about Mt Greenwood, Oak Park, and Evergreen Park?
I don't think they want it
This idea was thought of back in the 1970's but never materialized
CTA has a bunch of complaints about safety so building a new train line in some of Chicago’s most infamously dangerous neighborhoods wouldn’t be smart.
The CTA still needs an outer line, though. It hampers the system's functionality to have the only transfer points at The Loop. It doesn't have to be along Cicero, though. I think Western is a better choice, and a lot of people agree.
vote is for Ashland
Nah western is the way to go
Chat Sports Music lol
Back in the 50s and early 60s the then Mayor Daily wanted all trains and expressways go into the city center. Thus they do. So this is really old news and the reason it does not exist is Mayor Daily.
Or there's the old Circle Line...
Why the John Cena music?
full elevated
This will never happen btw
Essentially you want another Lake St style L lmao
Would be like 294
Far too west. Building along Western serves a much larger population. The Circle Line proposal numbers were already pushing the cost/benefit ratio.
I vote for Western.
This sounds like ideas that would be on the STAR Line Chicago website. But there's no money to build it, and no demand. Ridership is going down as fewer people have to go to offices to do work. Bigger employers are fleeing the Loop as crime soars. Commuter lots such as in Riverdale are emptier than before Covid. Nor is the current commuter scheduling system workable as a public transit system. You have to have frequent trains (15-20 minutes apart) to get people out of their cars. It does no good to have hourly trains between rush hours (if even that); the wait time messes up people's entire days as they try making connections between trains, let alone trains and buses. Trusting the transit agencies with more taxpayer money is already a nightmare; I live near Metra's latest debacle of a warehouse in Harvey, where it's become a bottomless expensive pit of a project that now seems unneeded, and in true Illinois fashion, possibly payola to a Metra contractor while mysteriously nobody knows (or will admit) why Metra even bought the seriously dilapidated building in the first place. CTA blew through decades of tax money and funding sometimes with few positive outcomes. RTA can't even get the agencies on a single fare card system despite allegedly being an "Authority". It's "hub and spoke" commuter service, and downtown Chicago was always the hub. Cross-city transit was never really considered despite some lip service about it, is there even one through train that can take someone all the way across the city?
The lines that are currently running on Chicago are fine we don't need other ones
Cap, transportation growth in Chicago has grinded to a halt while DC and cities in Japan surpass us