I think Lucas Pope chose deliberately not to add background to the characters. We could have played as a crewmember's relative, a policeman, even Sherlock Holmes, but we're a simple insurance company employee. Insurances don't care for friendships or feelings, they just want to know what happened. The end is pretty clear on that, I was infuriated at fines that the company asked upon certain death circumstances. As you said, the story is pretty standard (a good story nonetheless) but the narrative is stellar. And the choice of not giving anyone major background is radical but it works ! Thank you for two great videos about one of my favourite games 🙂 Have you tried "The case of the Golden Idol" ? Very nice game, it has an Obra Dinn-ish feel to it.
Self defense, execution by formal authority, attempting to protect the ship from nichols, stray bullet during crab attack. Maybe the 3d one could count as murder but the rest is definitely not
10:10 the game actually does say that they were sailing to the cape. On the first screen of the game when you boot it up, the “Lost as sea” poster says “Last voyage to Orient - Cape rendezvous unmet.” For those having trouble understanding what is said here, it says the Obra Dinn was sailing to the Orient with a stop along the way at the Cape of Good Hope, but the ship was reported as having not arrived at the cape (aka the ship vanished before reaching the cape).
To also address 10:18, the Suez Canal did not yet exist in 1803. Before the Suez Canal, ships had to sail far south around Africa to go between Europe and East Asia.
The reason that they had to go to South Africa was to restock supplies, then sail under the bottom and back up - the idea being to stock up on supplies in stops along the journey: Nicholas planning and escape probably had a goal of making it to northern Africa then make the big bucks in morroco or something. Or just ransom the Royal family
My personal theory for the final chapter is this: Hoscut and the others have finished accounting for the dead and found Abigail dead. With everything that has happened, Hoscut regrets ever sailing with Wittrel and giving his sister to be Wittrel’s wife. So he, Brennan and the other guy try to kill him as payback and to get the shells so at least this all meant something. As for the relationship for wittrel and Hoscut. This is the early 1800’s. They look to be mid 40s which means they began sailing likely right as the American Revolution was either underway or wrapping up. Wittrel by his own admission has been a captain for 20 years, starting right as the Revolution ended. So he probably served with distinction during that time as the Napoleonic Wars would start later in 1803. They likely served on the same ship and after the war, used their military service experience to get a job with the EIC. They sailed together for 20 years, and were close to each other’s families as well. So Wittrel married Abigail at some point.
I found your channel because Jacob Geller recommended a video of yours and I am so sure that your channel is about to become huge. Your videos are just too good man.
9:35 You say "Nineteenth century" Orient included those regions, but that isn't true. The word "orient" derives from the Latin word for "east". And it's for that reason that the Eastern Roman Empire (or the Byzantine Empire as it is known today) was considered the Roman Orient. *This* is the "orient" that is meant by the regions you listed. In other words, you didn't give the nineteenth century orient. You gave the fourth century orient. This game takes place well over 1500 years later, and by that point, the definition had shifted farther into Asia. By the 1800's, the word "Orient" came to broadly refer to East Asia, including China and India. Notably, you even showed this definition on screen at 10:32. India was the most likely destination, given the ship is merchant vessel belonging to the British East India company. The ship was not traveling *to* the Cape of Good Hope, the Cape was marking the halfway point of the journey. The Cape of Good Hope (often just called the Cape) was of particular importance in this time period because it was basically required for sailor to pass through the Cape if they wanted to travel from Europe to East Asia. As such, for those traveling to India, they would rendezvous at the Cape for resupply, exchange for both goods, sailors, and passengers, as well as just to mark that the first part of their journey went well. This is outlined in literally the very first thing you see in the game. The title page you are greeted with when you first load up the game tells you "Last voyage to Orient - Cape rendezvous unmet". What this means is that they were supposed to be going to the Orient, but they didn't even make it to the Cape which was supposed to be their half-way point. The ship map specifies that what you are looking at is specifically a map of "The Atlantic leg of the journey". It is not a full map of the intended route, it is only the route up until their rendezvous at the Cape. The Indian leg of the journey is not included on the map, but it is a part of the journey the ship was meant to take.
I was looking for someone who would mention "rendezvous unmet" from the start of the game. I agree with all of it you mentioned. Rendezvous also means something like a meeting. I like to think it means the Captain and crew were supposed to meet another ship at the Cape. Maybe the other ship would take the Formosans and the chest and sail it further. (Probably to Formosa) That would also mean this was an 'easy' delivery type of mission the captain got. He may have sailed to the Cape often which is why he would allow the woman and passengers on board. It therefore makes sence to turn the ship around to England after the Formosans died because there wasn't much to do anymore.
I like to imagine that the insurance company person has such a non-reaction to the scenes around them because they know that even if they made a big deal about it, it wouldn't matter. Even if they express sympathy for the beasts and how they were just trying to get back what was theirs, or indignation at how that Formosan guard was executed for a crime he didn't commit, it's not like adding that to their book would ultimately do anything. They're just there to list down what happened so they can get a paycheck. In fact, it's probably best that they left out any detail in regards to the beast and especially the shells, because if they didn't, there'll DEFINITELY be some idiots who try to go looking for them and bring doom to themselves and others. Maybe that's why they even write down 'terrible beasts' or 'unholy creature'. Maybe they do indeed find the creatures disgusting but they could also be using those descriptions to deter people away from looking for them, because they're the only one now who knows how quickly the beasts can slaughter through an entire ship's full of people.
I like this, they/we are doing a job and we are going to be professional about it regardless. We don't see the protagonist's face, if you played with a mirror and saw your own face I'm guessing it would be similar ;) but your documentation is always unbiased.
Generally a pretty good synopsis but I have couple of bones to pick. You start out saying the characters have no depth or background, but this simply isn't true. In the memories and dialogs you can certainly make out relationships and traits. For instance, the friendship of the three midshipmen, or the bold sacrifices of many of the crew, such as the carperters, or moments of cowardice, such as the second mate, Nichols. These moments most definitely give personality and depth to these characters. Some background can also be deduced, but I generally agree little background is given. Another thing is that you claim Brennan and his crew have 'no real reason' for mutiny, which I don't agree with. Many of the group are exposed to the dangers of the shells, such as them seeing or hearing about the shells driving Filiph Dahl mad. They also think that the Captain opted to keep them rather than throwing overboard. This would be a valid reason for mutiny, as to them, the Captain is valuing the shells over the ship, which many know are valuable due to the whole Nichols situation. Lastly, I know this is super nitpicky, but despite all the Formosans being lables as royalty, I believe that only Bun-Lan Lim, and maybe It-Beng Sia, are the only actual royalty. The other two are simply guards.
Beautifully done. I loved your analysis; I feel so much the same. This game is a treasure and I love how it prods us to not only uncover the mystery of the Obra Dinn but also draw our own conclusions and theories as far as some of the characters, their relationships, motives, and backgrounds go. It made me feel smart as hell. Love this game.
I never put it together that the first death was BECAUSE of the stowaway! I thought it was a genuine accident. Appart from the two crew mates in a bitter cold, all the deaths are from either human greed, ignorance, or vengeance. No I stand corrected, poor guy who got shocked by lightning.
15:20 I do think that maybe Hoscut was somewhat bluffing when he said "L'est we break it down and take more than those shells!" Even letting out a groan before saying that... He wanted answers as well as the shells but I don't think he wanted to hurt the captain too much. This is just speculation, of course, I could be wrong.
would make sense, seeing as he and the captain were clearly close. but could be that by this point, the remaining crew were in such dire straits that they would have done anything to be rid of the mermaids/shells. credit to the writing and voice acting that there is so much room for interpretation!
@@samg0 Definitely, loved Rob Townsend's performance as the captain and James McCreadie as Hoscut especially (the other voice work was amazing as well).
Technically speaking there are 64 charcters the 60 people on the ship the player character and their maid the rowboat men that brought you to the boat and the stowaway in the barrel
Witteral did save the crew. After he doomed them all by capturing and torturing the mermaids. So yeah, they DEFINITELY were in the right for wanting to start a mutiny imo.
but for real, excellent work. I think this game is a prime example of the visceral joy that only video games can bring, the way that gameplay and story can weave together that, like you said, can’t come any other way. also, you streaming the game came at a huge time for me. I was in the midst of dealing with some real family stuff (still am, unfortunately) and the streams were a huge comfort. I’m grateful for them. even with (especially because of?) all the hentai talk.
@@shelbyfawn1337 I only saw this follow up comment! I don't get notifs in yt studio for some reason. thanks for joining me on the streams and hope that everything is ok outside the world of RUclips and videogames. glad the streams helped 😁 hopefully will see you for Disco Elysium!
What would have been a wonderful additon to solve the characters depth problem is to be able to get snippets of conversations while moving around in the reconstructed scenes like you do in Cyberpunk's braindances
Thank you for this video. This game is amazing, it is a shame it doesn't have that much replayability (unless you want to get the achievement where you blame the captain for everyone's death). Btw if you haven't already seen them, look for obra dinn memes on youtube. They're really funny!
I think Lucas Pope chose deliberately not to add background to the characters. We could have played as a crewmember's relative, a policeman, even Sherlock Holmes, but we're a simple insurance company employee. Insurances don't care for friendships or feelings, they just want to know what happened. The end is pretty clear on that, I was infuriated at fines that the company asked upon certain death circumstances.
As you said, the story is pretty standard (a good story nonetheless) but the narrative is stellar. And the choice of not giving anyone major background is radical but it works !
Thank you for two great videos about one of my favourite games 🙂 Have you tried "The case of the Golden Idol" ? Very nice game, it has an Obra Dinn-ish feel to it.
that's a really good point about the fines at the end, says a lot about how the inspector is just there to do their job.
thanks for watching 😁
Self defense, execution by formal authority, attempting to protect the ship from nichols, stray bullet during crab attack. Maybe the 3d one could count as murder but the rest is definitely not
10:10 the game actually does say that they were sailing to the cape. On the first screen of the game when you boot it up, the “Lost as sea” poster says “Last voyage to Orient - Cape rendezvous unmet.”
For those having trouble understanding what is said here, it says the Obra Dinn was sailing to the Orient with a stop along the way at the Cape of Good Hope, but the ship was reported as having not arrived at the cape (aka the ship vanished before reaching the cape).
To also address 10:18, the Suez Canal did not yet exist in 1803. Before the Suez Canal, ships had to sail far south around Africa to go between Europe and East Asia.
The reason that they had to go to South Africa was to restock supplies, then sail under the bottom and back up - the idea being to stock up on supplies in stops along the journey:
Nicholas planning and escape probably had a goal of making it to northern Africa then make the big bucks in morroco or something.
Or just ransom the Royal family
9:15 my guess is that since they're royalty, a ransom could be demanded.
My personal theory for the final chapter is this:
Hoscut and the others have finished accounting for the dead and found Abigail dead. With everything that has happened, Hoscut regrets ever sailing with Wittrel and giving his sister to be Wittrel’s wife. So he, Brennan and the other guy try to kill him as payback and to get the shells so at least this all meant something.
As for the relationship for wittrel and Hoscut. This is the early 1800’s. They look to be mid 40s which means they began sailing likely right as the American Revolution was either underway or wrapping up. Wittrel by his own admission has been a captain for 20 years, starting right as the Revolution ended. So he probably served with distinction during that time as the Napoleonic Wars would start later in 1803. They likely served on the same ship and after the war, used their military service experience to get a job with the EIC. They sailed together for 20 years, and were close to each other’s families as well. So Wittrel married Abigail at some point.
I found your channel because Jacob Geller recommended a video of yours and I am so sure that your channel is about to become huge. Your videos are just too good man.
thanks so much! I'm just gonna keep making videos bc I enjoy it but thankyou for the kind words :)
9:35
You say "Nineteenth century" Orient included those regions, but that isn't true.
The word "orient" derives from the Latin word for "east". And it's for that reason that the Eastern Roman Empire (or the Byzantine Empire as it is known today) was considered the Roman Orient. *This* is the "orient" that is meant by the regions you listed.
In other words, you didn't give the nineteenth century orient. You gave the fourth century orient.
This game takes place well over 1500 years later, and by that point, the definition had shifted farther into Asia.
By the 1800's, the word "Orient" came to broadly refer to East Asia, including China and India. Notably, you even showed this definition on screen at 10:32.
India was the most likely destination, given the ship is merchant vessel belonging to the British East India company.
The ship was not traveling *to* the Cape of Good Hope, the Cape was marking the halfway point of the journey. The Cape of Good Hope (often just called the Cape) was of particular importance in this time period because it was basically required for sailor to pass through the Cape if they wanted to travel from Europe to East Asia. As such, for those traveling to India, they would rendezvous at the Cape for resupply, exchange for both goods, sailors, and passengers, as well as just to mark that the first part of their journey went well.
This is outlined in literally the very first thing you see in the game. The title page you are greeted with when you first load up the game tells you "Last voyage to Orient - Cape rendezvous unmet".
What this means is that they were supposed to be going to the Orient, but they didn't even make it to the Cape which was supposed to be their half-way point.
The ship map specifies that what you are looking at is specifically a map of "The Atlantic leg of the journey". It is not a full map of the intended route, it is only the route up until their rendezvous at the Cape. The Indian leg of the journey is not included on the map, but it is a part of the journey the ship was meant to take.
I was looking for someone who would mention "rendezvous unmet" from the start of the game. I agree with all of it you mentioned.
Rendezvous also means something like a meeting. I like to think it means the Captain and crew were supposed to meet another ship at the Cape. Maybe the other ship would take the Formosans and the chest and sail it further. (Probably to Formosa)
That would also mean this was an 'easy' delivery type of mission the captain got. He may have sailed to the Cape often which is why he would allow the woman and passengers on board. It therefore makes sence to turn the ship around to England after the Formosans died because there wasn't much to do anymore.
I like to imagine that the insurance company person has such a non-reaction to the scenes around them because they know that even if they made a big deal about it, it wouldn't matter. Even if they express sympathy for the beasts and how they were just trying to get back what was theirs, or indignation at how that Formosan guard was executed for a crime he didn't commit, it's not like adding that to their book would ultimately do anything. They're just there to list down what happened so they can get a paycheck. In fact, it's probably best that they left out any detail in regards to the beast and especially the shells, because if they didn't, there'll DEFINITELY be some idiots who try to go looking for them and bring doom to themselves and others. Maybe that's why they even write down 'terrible beasts' or 'unholy creature'. Maybe they do indeed find the creatures disgusting but they could also be using those descriptions to deter people away from looking for them, because they're the only one now who knows how quickly the beasts can slaughter through an entire ship's full of people.
I like this, they/we are doing a job and we are going to be professional about it regardless. We don't see the protagonist's face, if you played with a mirror and saw your own face I'm guessing it would be similar ;) but your documentation is always unbiased.
Generally a pretty good synopsis but I have couple of bones to pick.
You start out saying the characters have no depth or background, but this simply isn't true. In the memories and dialogs you can certainly make out relationships and traits. For instance, the friendship of the three midshipmen, or the bold sacrifices of many of the crew, such as the carperters, or moments of cowardice, such as the second mate, Nichols. These moments most definitely give personality and depth to these characters. Some background can also be deduced, but I generally agree little background is given.
Another thing is that you claim Brennan and his crew have 'no real reason' for mutiny, which I don't agree with. Many of the group are exposed to the dangers of the shells, such as them seeing or hearing about the shells driving Filiph Dahl mad. They also think that the Captain opted to keep them rather than throwing overboard. This would be a valid reason for mutiny, as to them, the Captain is valuing the shells over the ship, which many know are valuable due to the whole Nichols situation.
Lastly, I know this is super nitpicky, but despite all the Formosans being lables as royalty, I believe that only Bun-Lan Lim, and maybe It-Beng Sia, are the only actual royalty. The other two are simply guards.
Oh wow the story is so short but very impactful!!! Your explanation cleared everything for me :)
Witteral did NOT save the ship. That hothead did more harm than good, second only to Nichols. The real hero was clearly Martin Perrot
Beautifully done. I loved your analysis; I feel so much the same. This game is a treasure and I love how it prods us to not only uncover the mystery of the Obra Dinn but also draw our own conclusions and theories as far as some of the characters, their relationships, motives, and backgrounds go. It made me feel smart as hell. Love this game.
Hanging out for that muffin!
Aww man..
just watched the outer wilds vid and was delighted to see this about one of my faves. Thanks for another well-made video
I never put it together that the first death was BECAUSE of the stowaway! I thought it was a genuine accident. Appart from the two crew mates in a bitter cold, all the deaths are from either human greed, ignorance, or vengeance. No I stand corrected, poor guy who got shocked by lightning.
Oh nevermind, Lasker house. That falls under human greed. Damn.
Hey Do you have any intention on playing The Witness and doing the following "The Witness Explained" ? Cheers
15:20 I do think that maybe Hoscut was somewhat bluffing when he said "L'est we break it down and take more than those shells!" Even letting out a groan before saying that... He wanted answers as well as the shells but I don't think he wanted to hurt the captain too much. This is just speculation, of course, I could be wrong.
would make sense, seeing as he and the captain were clearly close. but could be that by this point, the remaining crew were in such dire straits that they would have done anything to be rid of the mermaids/shells. credit to the writing and voice acting that there is so much room for interpretation!
@@samg0 Definitely, loved Rob Townsend's performance as the captain and James McCreadie as Hoscut especially (the other voice work was amazing as well).
Technically speaking there are 64 charcters the 60 people on the ship the player character and their maid the rowboat men that brought you to the boat and the stowaway in the barrel
Witteral did save the crew. After he doomed them all by capturing and torturing the mermaids. So yeah, they DEFINITELY were in the right for wanting to start a mutiny imo.
It's not like he could've known he was dooming them. Completely faultless imo
23:11 Games with Zero gameplay? Like Umineko no Naku Koro ni?
I watched this whole video and this is the muffin thanks I get? infuriating.
but for real, excellent work. I think this game is a prime example of the visceral joy that only video games can bring, the way that gameplay and story can weave together that, like you said, can’t come any other way.
also, you streaming the game came at a huge time for me. I was in the midst of dealing with some real family stuff (still am, unfortunately) and the streams were a huge comfort. I’m grateful for them. even with (especially because of?) all the hentai talk.
🍪 (no muffin emoji)
@@shelbyfawn1337 I only saw this follow up comment! I don't get notifs in yt studio for some reason.
thanks for joining me on the streams and hope that everything is ok outside the world of RUclips and videogames. glad the streams helped 😁 hopefully will see you for Disco Elysium!
@@samg0 I was trying to be subtle with the sappy ;) excited to see you enjoy the beautiful chaos of Disco Elysium and bother you throughout.
What would have been a wonderful additon to solve the characters depth problem is to be able to get snippets of conversations while moving around in the reconstructed scenes like you do in Cyberpunk's braindances
Thank you for this video. This game is amazing, it is a shame it doesn't have that much replayability (unless you want to get the achievement where you blame the captain for everyone's death). Btw if you haven't already seen them, look for obra dinn memes on youtube. They're really funny!
Don't forget the boatman, 63
Damn these are some good chocolate muffins.
1:40 WRONG!!!! THE GAME HAS 63 *human* CHARACTERS!!!! YOU FORGOT THE GUY THAT ROWS THE PLAYER CHARACTER TO THE SHIP IN THE BEGINNING!!!!!
So you just kinda stopped uploading and deleted some videos, bummer
MUFFIN! 😋
I would argue that Outer Wilds is a non-gameplay game. Oh, and what of visual novels?