Is the Bat'Leth from Star Trek a Good Weapon?

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  • @MammothMorals
    @MammothMorals День назад +32

    this is the type of content I'd like to see more of, even with normal weapons.
    sparring with explanations of what's happening. rather than just sparring with music.

    • @SellswordArts
      @SellswordArts  День назад +12

      We have multiple playlists of this kind of video 😁

  • @Maxiius
    @Maxiius День назад +47

    Seems like a classic case of range being king. The interesting point is that the Bat'leth was designed for the small confines of a ship boarding action. In that context, range is less of an advantage compared to manuverability where the playing field would be more even.

    • @PJDAltamirus0425
      @PJDAltamirus0425 День назад +2

      Yeah, but probably not as king as HEMA protrays, a important of self defense that isn't protrayed well, drawing your weapon. scabbarded the reach of weapon becomes a downside cus it takes longer to draw. Grappling could also op cus anyone that afford a sword could afford and small blade are great anti grappling devices.

    • @Maxiius
      @Maxiius День назад +2

      @PJDAltamirus0425 Good point but the idea and portrayal of Bat'leths have overwhelming been as hand carried items and no sheath.

    • @dylanbontempo2708
      @dylanbontempo2708 4 часа назад

      For an example of a weapon designed for a similar purpose, we can see the boarding dagger. Many privateers, and, later, pirates, found that there cutlasses were unwieldy in the confines of a ship’s lower decks. So, they basically commissioned a shorter sword that was closer to a dagger that could be used with greater effectiveness.

    • @dylanbontempo2708
      @dylanbontempo2708 4 часа назад

      For an example of a weapon designed for a similar purpose, we can see the boarding dagger. Many privateers, and, later, pirates, found that there cutlasses were unwieldy in the confines of a ship’s lower decks. So, they basically commissioned a shorter sword that was closer to a dagger that could be used with greater effectiveness.

  • @joaofonseca2012
    @joaofonseca2012 День назад +58

    It reminds me of bucks fighting.

    • @ceedubelu
      @ceedubelu День назад +5

      That's a solid observation. I think that should be a key figure when any weapons operability is brought up: Is there an analogous connection to this weapon that could inform its use

    • @TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight
      @TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight День назад +4

      Oh deer!

    • @dylanbontempo2708
      @dylanbontempo2708 4 часа назад

      @@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlightget out. Take my like and leave.

  • @SymbioteMullet
    @SymbioteMullet День назад +29

    It's interesting to note, David doesn't have anywhere near as much space to retreat due to the limits of the area they're training in, so that's affecting how they're both fighting. I'd be intersted to see how the trials went if they changed ends, and in a full size area.
    Also, this is delightfully cool!
    Dan Curry, the designer of the Bat'Leth, apparently had some significant knowledge of tai chi chuan, and the Klingon fighting style Mok'Bara is based on that. It might be worth a look in that direction if a follow up video is ever in the works. Maybe he'd be up for a discussion on his design process? It's worth a thought.

    • @ceedubelu
      @ceedubelu День назад +1

      Oooo, I like this connection

    • @macavitythemysterycat
      @macavitythemysterycat 15 часов назад +1

      I mean, they're fighting in David's living room essentially! Truly the close-quarters shipboard fighting the batleth would be used in.

    • @SymbioteMullet
      @SymbioteMullet 11 часов назад

      ​@@macavitythemysterycati know, i saw the house tour video he did! Cool digs!

    • @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041
      @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041 10 часов назад

      The Bat'Leth was designed based on the Cicada Wing Sword, it's the most recent weapon to be recognized by some Korean Karate organizations as a practical weapon.

  • @Master1Xander
    @Master1Xander День назад +29

    Almost feels like a German judicial dueling weapon.

    • @thekaxmax
      @thekaxmax День назад +1

      true. But the origin is Chinese: Heaven and Earth, Sun and Moon Sword (Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao)

    • @macavitythemysterycat
      @macavitythemysterycat 15 часов назад

      @@thekaxmax or a pair of Deer Horn knives (Lùjiǎodāo)

  • @XathexX
    @XathexX День назад +11

    The idea that you may take a wound to get the hit makes sense for a Klingon. Cannon they have redundant organs. high pain tolerance & endurance. It makes sense that the weapon they make would leverage those advantages. If you have NO fear of injury then you can get in with a decisive blow. I could see specifically taking a stab just to get in close. MORE danger = MORE glory
    Another thing that occurs to me from a martial arts background is that this is a weapon specifically to augment unarmed & other fighting techniques. I think one without the separate hand holds (one continuous grip) would be more useful. That would allow sliding hands to different positions. This is used in Jo staff (short staff).

  • @FuzzyTrekkie
    @FuzzyTrekkie День назад +14

    As a life-long fan of the bat'leth, this makes me so happy to see. Though it also frustrates me to see all the wasted potential for this weapon in the show. So many combat scenes with the bat'leth look down-right corny.
    I would personally love to see combat done with different Klingon weapons. Maybe bat'leth vs mek'leth. Basically sword vs dagger

    • @thekaxmax
      @thekaxmax День назад +2

      of course they're corny. It's actors with minimal training and practice, not actual trains fighters, so they do what moves and sequences can be taught in a few days.

    • @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041
      @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041 10 часов назад +1

      Give me a few hours and I'll get a video for you based on what I've seen for it. I apologize in advance for being grotesquely overweight.

    • @thekaxmax
      @thekaxmax 10 часов назад

      that's been covered by these guys

  • @MC-yt1uv
    @MC-yt1uv День назад +10

    Great video! I think it is interesting that it fits so well with Klingon mindsets. It seems like the Bat'Leth resulted in a lot of cases where both fighters would take a hit, which makes sense for Klingons who pride themselves on enduring pain and are more durable than humans. Getting cut yourself is probably seen as an acceptable trade if you can defeat your opponent.
    I would be curious to see it go up against a rapier, I feel like that would be fairly one-sided.

  • @celas1959
    @celas1959 День назад +3

    Against armor, getting those hooks into gaps could be pretty effective as well.

  • @RadicalTrivia
    @RadicalTrivia День назад +4

    10:08 - This is the essence of jiujitsu. As a grappler, the bat'leth makes total sense. Use it to close distance, tie up, grapple, etc. Qapla'! 💪🏽😠

  • @boxtank5288
    @boxtank5288 День назад +11

    It makes sense. The reason I feel a Bat'leth works in it's length (outside the Watsonian view of 'propmakers aren't the authority of blades') is that Klingons are STRONG.
    They work best as you mentioned but also a death or glory weapon; I could see in a few duels that the theoretical Klingon would have ensured their killer joined them in death.

  • @corbinwilliams7429
    @corbinwilliams7429 День назад +6

    I watched an interview of the person who designed the Bat'Leth where he claimed he had loosely based it off of his experience using fencing sabers.

    • @thekaxmax
      @thekaxmax День назад +1

      and the weapon itself is based on the Heaven and Earth, Sun and Moon Sword (Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao)

    • @macavitythemysterycat
      @macavitythemysterycat 15 часов назад

      Dan Curry!

  • @nightshade7240
    @nightshade7240 День назад +3

    I have to say that any sabre with the pioro (false edge) is going to have far more flexibility because of the edge on both sides of the curve.
    You guys should check out the weapon that inspired the creation of the bat'leth, the deerhorn knives. They are super interesting because they have options that most other weapons don't, especially at close and mid range and as they are paired, rather than joined into one weapon, it gives far more versatility than the bat'leth.

  • @sirxarounthefrenchy7773
    @sirxarounthefrenchy7773 День назад +8

    What you did sparring wise was not so different from staff fighting, I wonder if you had more experience with staff weapons you wouldn't be able to find some more thing to do.

    • @EvilWeiRamirez
      @EvilWeiRamirez 13 часов назад

      I always wonder what shillelagh fighters would do with it. The cane is similar in length with a curved end. They also grip it higher and leave a bottom end to parry with.
      When the one guy was using it as a shield, that is similar to the idea of how the shillelagh is used.

  • @seadawg93
    @seadawg93 День назад +2

    Yes yes yes! Love me some bat’leth!
    Haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but it did better against the longsword in slow play than I would have thought. Because of the bird of prey situation I think of them as being sort of like a space cutlass (ie shorter range).

  • @michaelconnor1542
    @michaelconnor1542 День назад +2

    Also, in Deep Space 9 where there is more lore building of Klingons and more combat. The entire weapon is used.
    Often the backside(hand holds) is used to block. Leaving the bladeside free to cut, or the backside is used to strike.
    Think of it as a big heavy wedge with hand holds cut out.

  • @illmade2
    @illmade2 18 часов назад

    Great video. It's nice to see someone not mocking it. As another youtube says, it is all about context. Klingons were chest to chest fighters, not long-range snipers. All the other weapons shown in the show are shorter cutting/chopping weapons so a longsword would have never been a issue. As far as the weight in the show I've always assumed that was a error on the writers part.

  • @kujoujima7303
    @kujoujima7303 День назад +2

    19:29 dang broke a piece of your weapon on that hit , brutal.

  • @MikeHawke_187
    @MikeHawke_187 День назад +1

    Would love to see you guys test the mek'leth next lol

  • @michaels9595
    @michaels9595 21 час назад

    Awesome idea for a video! Enjoyed your approach and teamwork communication.

  • @vtmarik
    @vtmarik День назад +3

    I wonder if you could find usable technique and grip if you use the same strikes and technique that you would use with a Chinese hooksword.
    Edit: All the double hits make sense when you think of Klingon combat doctrine which is very fierce in close quarters

  • @alexrobinet7576
    @alexrobinet7576 День назад +1

    If someone had the str for a bigger version and didn't care about being minorly injured it might do even better turning trades into kill wound trades.

  • @adcyuumi
    @adcyuumi День назад +1

    Of note -- even within the canon of Star Trek, the Bat'Leth is observed even by Klingons as a clumsy and awkward weapon. That is on purpose; it is designed by Klingons to be hard to use, requiring a lot of skill. It is not meant to be an efficient practical weapon.
    But Klingons do HAVE a more efficient practical weapon -- the Daqtagh, which is basically their version of the shortsword or long dagger. It is known by Klingons that the Daqtagh, although much smaller than the Bat'Leth, is actually the superior weapon between the two. Carrying a Bat'Leth instead is a matter of honor and pride -- they are choosing the harder to use weapon, as a boast of their hand to hand combat skill.

  • @Preach202
    @Preach202 10 часов назад

    Fun fact the Bat'leth was designed with corridor combat in mind. A two handed melee weapon that could feasibly be used in the tight halls of a klingon ship.

  • @mikeumm
    @mikeumm 22 часа назад

    This pleases Gowron, greatly. Glory to your channel. Qapla!

  • @luckyjak117
    @luckyjak117 День назад +5

    No way!...Yes, way...

    • @honganhvu48
      @honganhvu48 День назад +1

      A comment that didn’t say first? That a rare one

  • @jonathancastillo6433
    @jonathancastillo6433 День назад +2

    They’ve done it; a use for reverse grip. Reverse grip a Shotel to pick the hand of a weakly guarded opponent

  • @EvilWeiRamirez
    @EvilWeiRamirez 14 часов назад

    I always thought people from a shillelagh background should be consulted. They do a lot of things using the handle to parry. They hold the weapon higher up, similar to where the handle is on the batleth.
    In shillelagh technique, they use it like you were using it as a shield. The bottom of the cane is used to parry. I would grip it on the top side of the lower grip with my primary hand.
    I think the lower hooks should be used like a fencing parry 4, but instead of catching with the top of the guard, you catch with the bottom. That is difficult because it isn't as reliable as having the weapon slide down your blade. So i think the training has to be different from the start. You have to be trained to do handle parries.
    The constant thrusts from a longer weapon would be terrible to deal with. In this sense, it is like spear vs sword, but you can't grab the sword like you can the spear.
    I would love to know what a backhand top to bottom strike is like to transfer hands mid combat. Stick fighters are very accustomed to this kind of thing.
    I think the problem is that it is looked at from a sword user's perspective.

  • @jhl3653
    @jhl3653 День назад +1

    Makleth is awesome and 100% practical

  • @PJDAltamirus0425
    @PJDAltamirus0425 День назад +4

    The fact that it is three grips instead of one long one is kinda dumb. The fighting can much dynamic with one long gripe

    • @SellswordArts
      @SellswordArts  День назад +8

      Structurally that wouldn't make a strong weapon

    • @PJDAltamirus0425
      @PJDAltamirus0425 День назад

      @@SellswordArts ....... Ummm... explain.. spaced hand guards on long weapons aren't exactly common... if kinda big advantage of pole weapons compared to sword, ya can shift and slips grip quickly. How would having a long grip make it weaker.

    • @Tarnfalk
      @Tarnfalk День назад +1

      @@PJDAltamirus0425Keep in mind this is being used by Klingons who are at a minimum double normal human strength. Those separators for the grip act more like support pillars so a big hit doesn’t push the blade of the weapon down onto your fingers. Dax in the show I remember holding the grips with the inside of her thumbs and the fingers outwards on the top. This should allow you to pretty rapidly move your hands and then just clamp down for a stronger grip

    • @SellswordArts
      @SellswordArts  День назад +11

      Yes, but having a big hole in the middle of your sword does tent to make it a bit weaker. The reason it's segmented is for structural integrity

  • @hamstermk4
    @hamstermk4 День назад +1

    I tried foam Bat'leth and my first though was "there is no way I have this little range for for this much weight." Since the Bat'leth isn't a side arm, it's competition is not a single sword, but the sword & shield, or two handed pole arms.

  • @s.owl9
    @s.owl9 День назад +1

    I think the batleth handle would be best separated in two parts not 3. Have more area at the back for two hands, and the same amount at the front, with the metal bracing in the middle

  • @RainMakeR_Workshop
    @RainMakeR_Workshop День назад +1

    I still think it would be better with one long hole for the grip rather that three separate ones.

  • @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler
    @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler День назад

    I would have to agree with your analysis here I think this is a really good weapon that should be produced... Maybe with a lightweight frame like carbon fiber and blades attached

  • @skeleleleton
    @skeleleleton 19 часов назад

    7:08 "it doesn't thrust well" next exchange: pow right in the kisser LOL that thrust had me dying actually

    • @SellswordArts
      @SellswordArts  13 часов назад +1

      It doesn't thrust well through somebody else's guard. We address that. If you can get an uncontested thrust it's pretty good, but with swords you can usually thrust from the bind, and you can't do that with these.

    • @skeleleleton
      @skeleleleton 11 часов назад

      @@SellswordArts Oh I understand how different it is/would be in an actual scenario, it's just the timing that had me laughing.

  • @evinfuilt
    @evinfuilt День назад

    Combat with all the parries and double thrusting ends make me think of a Maduvu, one of the oldest weapons ever created (though of course, post spear.) Wouldn't be surprised if the Bat'leth is based off of it.

  • @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041
    @robert-joshuamcfaddin7041 10 часов назад

    Thank you so much for apporaching it with a neutral perspective man

  • @schonnj
    @schonnj День назад

    I love the enthusiasm.

  • @dennispoley6005
    @dennispoley6005 5 часов назад

    Very honorable weapon, Q'pla !

  • @Chef_PC
    @Chef_PC 14 часов назад

    This needs to be a selection in Hellish Quart.

  • @Triplestorms
    @Triplestorms День назад

    Awesome video! Please do more sci fi swords!

  • @ORIEL5784
    @ORIEL5784 День назад

    They actually made up a martial art for the Batleth. Some Japanese Sensei developed the art for it. I don't remember the Sensei's name. Look it up if you're curious.

  • @PJDAltamirus0425
    @PJDAltamirus0425 День назад

    Oh, this reminding, their is good sound example of a double ended cutting and thrusting "sword" it is called a jagerstock. Just that the handle is and the blades only get to about spear head length to short sword length.

  • @brokenursa9986
    @brokenursa9986 21 час назад

    This really seems like a weapon that a militaristic alien society would develop. It looks like the bat’leth really encourages a more aggressive fighting style compared to human swords.
    19:40 Also, this explanation tells me that Sulu could reliably beat Klingons in duels.

  • @curseofgladstone4981
    @curseofgladstone4981 День назад

    To what extent do you think the batleth being an unusual weapon limits how effective it is vs sword or other weapons?
    What I mean is nobody trains to use a batleth, so despite having some skills you learn from other weapons to apply to it, you are still trying to adapt to using it as you go along.
    same goes for fighting against it.
    Additionally, how good do you think it would be in an armoured combat scenario? The batleth seems like it's weight distribution makes it better for anti armour if a hit manages to land, but thats just my intuition.

  • @SinApex
    @SinApex 19 часов назад

    It definitely looks awkward to get the hang of at first. It's a really weird shape for people used to using regular swords. The grip of it sort of leaves you with no frame of reference for how to use it, since it's not QUITE like any real existing weapons. There are some aspects it shares with real weapons but it's not entirely like using them, like the hooks near the hand at the bottom of it being sort of similar to real hook swords, but the rest of it isn't necessarily too similar so even if you were familiar with hook swords, it doesn't translate to this 1:1. Definitely the kind of weapon you'd have to train specifically to use before you can translate other sword techniques comfortably.

  • @SenorGato237
    @SenorGato237 День назад

    It might also work with a sliding grip change, like you would with a polearm or a maul. Not in those gauntlets though.

  • @koloblican11763
    @koloblican11763 День назад

    I love that you made this video guys lol

  • @one_schizfreud
    @one_schizfreud День назад

    Like the tusk of the targ

  • @ScottGrow117
    @ScottGrow117 День назад

    So, what about if you focus on orienting the edge of your bat'leth toward the direction of your opponent's strike? It might be what you have to do to protect your hands.
    That said, i think this would be a great qeapon for harnischfechten. If i haven't already said that here.

  • @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler
    @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler День назад

    One thing I haven't seen y'all do is grab it from the bottom and sling it

  • @alexrobinet7576
    @alexrobinet7576 День назад

    My friend is freakishly strong I might test against some unique bind and power strats.
    Like batlith v axe etc.

    • @alexrobinet7576
      @alexrobinet7576 День назад

      It could be a unique breach and clear two handed option even at full size.

  • @Hangman404
    @Hangman404 19 часов назад

    Awesome would love to spar with you guys

  • @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler
    @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler День назад

    I would like to see a weapon of the same structure but instead of both of the hooks hooking in the same direction have one hook in the opposite direction... Kind of like an s-curve

  • @lighthousegravyP51
    @lighthousegravyP51 19 часов назад

    Yes.

  • @LycaonsMemories
    @LycaonsMemories День назад

    i feel like this would do well in more a chinese style of fighting

  • @glennpruess6936
    @glennpruess6936 День назад

    Since you're covering this, i wonder if the energon swords from the first three bayverse transformers movies are good weapons

  • @andreanecchi5930
    @andreanecchi5930 День назад +1

    next Ushaan-tor ?

    • @WBF_III
      @WBF_III День назад

      Energy Whip perhaps?

  • @michaelconnor1542
    @michaelconnor1542 День назад

    If I'm not mistaken, it was designed by a weapons master.

  • @liquidyschitz4908
    @liquidyschitz4908 День назад

    Noe ya gotta do the half sword half axe thing PHA has. Lol

  • @LordVoid666
    @LordVoid666 22 часа назад

    how about dookus lightsaber could you make a video to see if his is useful or not?

  •  День назад

    Oh this video is amazing, I hope it does well. Commenting for algo :)

  • @ClaytonLovendale
    @ClaytonLovendale День назад

    You actually admitted the reverse grip had found a place in fighting? I'm shocked.

    • @SellswordArts
      @SellswordArts  День назад

      Nah, it sucks.
      That underhanded shot Is more like a trick. And it got us hit more than it hit

  • @one_schizfreud
    @one_schizfreud День назад

    Bi'yaj taj, kaplah .

  • @martinbraun1211
    @martinbraun1211 День назад +1

    QAPLA'

  • @schonnj
    @schonnj День назад

    Bat'leth vs Khopesh?

    • @nukatt
      @nukatt День назад +1

      @@schonnj that is a odd fight . The Khopesh would be overpowered easily. But the nimbleness may come out on top.. I will have to look into this .

  • @Fish2049
    @Fish2049 День назад

    6:40 you can’t just drop an exchange like that at random ._.

  • @kevincrady2831
    @kevincrady2831 19 часов назад

    I'd love to see what Sekei Sensei would do with one of those!

  • @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler
    @AquarianSoulTimeTraveler День назад

    Reverse grip lol 🤣

  • @kingof-bunz6506
    @kingof-bunz6506 День назад

    I’ve always thought of it as a highly misunderstood weapon it’s not a sword it’s a primary weapon like a polar arm specifically designed and made to fight in confined spaces like the hull of a spaceship for an honor obsessed warrior culture against heavily armored opponents to entrap and capture them with the blades parts or kill them by driving the spikes into and through gaps in the armor

    • @kingof-bunz6506
      @kingof-bunz6506 День назад

      The bat’leth is decended from the Mek’leth which is a short one handed kukri like sword knife that was used in Klingon society as a sidearm/ tool in pre space travel society the Klingons relied on other more conventional weapons similar to our swords and spears and pole arms as primary arms during this time but when the Klingons began traveling into space they found themselves having to abandon the weapons they once used and relying more and more on disruptors and Mek’Leths in close combat in these confined areas of ships as they found them to be the handiest in the hull of a ship but eventually some Klingons added more protection and spikes to their Mel’leth and eventually it became a contemporary proto Bat’leth which became the bat’leth proper as many of the honor obsessed Klingons grew unsatisfied with their usage of disruptor pistols and abandoned them for the bat’leth to better fight armored opponents and wrestle them to kill them or take them captive
      TL;DR: to really show the proper usuage of the bat’leth the fighters should be in full Buhurt armor and fighting inside a maze