because caste discrimination is not just historical. It is a form of discrimination that takes place even today. Reservations will have to be collectively removed when the communities come forward enough. Tell me if Indian muslims are currently breaking temples and building mosques over them and it is is not being discussed parliament or courts.
People get killed because they want to ride horse in the wedding, women get raped because others wants to show them their place, its still rampant. Big city its much less, small towns, villages, semi rural areas and tier two cities has this reality
the most cluttered subject is Waqf act. However, media for obvious reasons chooses NOT to make a cut the clutter episode on it. now this episode on a court verdict. the question that needs to be answered is, do one community have a right to worship at a religious place where their ancestors worshipped and later lost due to act of state which is illegal and how they can be denied any justice just because it happened years ago.
If thats the case than will this apply to jain and buddhist temple broken by hindu kings and will the hindus be willing to give those back to jain and buddhist people
I never understood how this act is linked to the basic structure of the constitution. Irrespective of the judgement on the places of worship act the surveys should be allowed as they only find facts and don't change the religious nature of the structure. This judgement is as ridiculous as the law itself.
considering that the fact that is it was called the basic structure of the constitution was given in the ayodhya verdict..I think people like to pick and choose according to their whims
SG u r right why open Mughal n British historical facts. But why don't u ask why a section of public is closely attaches itself with those who committed religious attrocities.
they attach themselves? how? this logic is weird. it is like asking why INdinsd are attached to supporting bal gangadar tilak when he supported child marriage. or other much older historical figures who may have supported sati.
@@fawaaza.7743A particular religious community openly celebrates and find their heros in characters like Babur and Aurangzeb instead of Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan or APJ Abdul Kalam. They try to whitewash and justify the actions of the said rulers while denying greatness to people like Kalam who belonged to the same community.
Shekhar is being a hypocrite here. You can't cherrypick chandrachud words if you disagree with his oral judgement then you must disagree with the PoW act constitutionality and The act is not protecting the Secualism. This act is discriminatory against other religions. If historical wrongs should be forgotten then What about Caste based reservation what's the need for scratching the history on this issue. What's the need for writing Dalits history which American institutes are funding. Shekhar for your info I support reservation but not in its current form. But you'll never support the Hindu cause. I know it for a fact. Maybe you agree with this govt on some issues. But Hindus will never agree on this issue with the government.
then why are people saying opposing it is unconstitutional if it had nothing to do with it? And the bjp doesn't care what the constitution says. It just renamed the aircraft act in Hindi even though the constitution says all acts must be in ENGLISH. besides the consitituion promotes fraternity and discourages retrogression.
A tyrant who tortures rebels opposing his authority non-violently is evil, but an omnipotent deity who tortures rebels for eternity merely for rejecting his authority is not? 🤔
how can a tyrant torture non violently lol? besides, sinners and rebels are not the same but I agree with the point that gods cannot be merciful while also creating hell
@@fawaaza.7743 I meant rebels opposing the tyrant non-violently, not the tyrant torturing non-violently. Tormenting someone for mere opposition-whether called a ‘sinner’ or ‘rebel’-and doing so for eternity is pure tyranny. 😊
Modi has no b@lls to amend the POW act but will fire from the shoulders of the judiciary which itself has no b@lls. Good they displayed some at least finally.
If they take out mehrabs out of mosque and ignore qibla, take out the minarets and teach quran, hadiths in local langues, accept local gurus - guru nanak Sahib, mirza Ghulam qadiyani as the prophets of Islam, then the mosques are not a problem. If they want find Allah only inside kaba of mecca, then it's a big problem for the non muslims.
So "chodo kal ki baate" doesn't apply to WAQF huh? For them you're ok with claiming any of our lands, while we can't even file a case about illegally occupied ASI monuments? Got it, won't be renewing my membership.
A good decision. Reason to feel proud of our judicial system. Nobody gains anything from digging up old mosque foundations, even if it is, most likely, build over other religious places. Need to move ahead!
struck down by the court as it is basic structure of constitution according to ayodhya verdict. also bjp doesn't have a majority so that's not happening
Shekhar Saab with all due respect to your contribution And stature in Journalism I humbly wish to add that observation and statement of former CJI lower have not Latched on to it But found clearance from SC to issue the orders for survey. I think that would be more precise, with respect to you Sir 🙏
This matter would have been heard by Former CJI Chandchud when the matter came first. This unnecessary and genius (?)was allowed to keep going for long.
1. Contrary to what Shekhar would like us to believe, it is not as if any Tom Dick and Harry ( or any Ramu, Shamu and Bholu if you like it that way!!) is going with a petition to the Courts for survey!! All the petition are based on historical and other evidences and hence, survey is asked for so that archeological evidence is established. So every complainant is following the civil procedure within the due process of law. There can not and should not be any objection to it. 2. There is difference between place of prayer and place of worship. The Act itself gives exemption for sites under ASI. Also, to determine the character of the place, one needs to undertake a survey in any case. Today surveys can be done in an non invasive ways. We also understand that this is not against Muslims but against the foreign invaders who destroyed our cultural and religious sites and symbols. We must reclaim our past and in a civil way. So this is not Hindu versus Muslim issue. Mosques can be constructed elsewhere if it is established that it was built on a temple by the foreign invaders. 3. SC order today is just freezing the issue for the time being. Govt will have to come out clean on this issue and advise SC of its view on this unconstitutional law. Let us see how it goes in the next hearings. 4. There is no doubt that sickulars like Shekhar are really disturbed by the challenge to the Act. Modi Govt may in fact decide to amend or repeal it too, depending on how it assesses the political impact of it. 5. SC should understand that unless just decisions are made, any unbalanced judgement will eventually lead to the Ayodhya like situation in years to come. All of these cases today are in civil court and no political party is involved. But no one can guarantee what it will be like in 10 or 20 years hence. Hindus have now finally awakened to their mistreatments and injustice at the hand of successive secular governments and finally it will be the mob fury that will eventually do the justice. Hope desire and inclination to appease one community at the cost of another does not come in the way of justice, equality and common sense.
Shekhar, Hindus are ready to forgive the mistakes of medieval rulers, at the same time they retain the right to correct those mistakes in their own right. As you mentioned those incidents were mistakes committed in the past (medieval). Hindus do not need to carry the burden of secularism and it is good for secularists to give away these places and live peacefully.
The worship Act is an act which is arbitrary and against the law of Natural Justice, If people are not allowed to go to court than is the state not provoking them to take the law in ones own hand ? This law must be done away forthwith
By your argument 1. The waqf act is unconstitutional and against secular fabric 2. The places of worship act equally is unconstitutional because it discriminates and oppressed a religious right against another religious right.
There is a certain thing which is of a great value to citizens is country's own history and that could be the reason former CJI made his observation, I am apt to think it that way. Window for historical investigation is necessary What invaders who ruled our country for centuries,did here must be known to people and know our history.
over whelming opinion as per comments I read below tell that to print and to our SC to FO ...hindus will reclaim whats right fully there ... uske baad likhenge nayi kahani
Best solution is that in the spirit of secularism, the Muslims should admit that mosques in India were built over demolished temples, wherever. Thereafter it should not matter who prays for the Nation in those places …. Everybody is after all human
If a temple is destroyed and it sacred scripts and deity are used to construct floor and staircase , should the community whose religious structure is built by destroying temple not feel remorseful or ashamed . What kind of religious mindset would you need to possess to insult other faith
The SC has to answer a lot for the current assault on secularism in the country. All the Chess talent and training centers are in the South. The North just wants to do Hindu-Muslim and Mandir-Masjid. Says a lot about us as a country!
Okay, and so what? Chess is one sport just like Cricket. There is a disproportionate number of cricketers from North when compared with South. Chess is not a measure of IQ alone. It’s a measure of skill and mental acumen like Cricket is a game of skill and physical acumen. How does being good in one sport define priorities? I agree we need to get away from divisive politics but by making such statements, you’re attempting to replace one division with another like there’s some moral superiority in being good at Chess in the south.
@@srsharma Cricket is a sport in development since the 1983 World Cup. What new talent has the North developed in the past few decades? Wrestling might be the only sport that could even be mentioned but even there politics is ruining it. When contrasts exist, it needs to be highlighted. One part of the country cannot be dragging the rest for eternity. It is high time that the North starts to contribute rather than leeching on the South all the time.
@ Umm, what? 1983 wasn’t when Cricket was in development! We’ve been playing for decades before that. 1983 win took it to the masses at a huge level! It takes time to nurture talents in different sports. How have you conveniently forgotten about Shooting, Archery, boxing, javelin and some even I don’t remember on the top of my head*Sigh*. I am very happy that we have great Chess players from South and hope we have manifolds more. All I want is for people to not make some connection that because we have good Chess players in South, somehow that translates to them being smarter or chess is a sport that matters and others aren’t relevant. It’s a sport just like others and not an IQ test or something to take a high ground on. Secondly, you’re saying ‘contrast’ as if all states in the southern region have HDI above 0.9 and in the northern region it’s like half of it. Some parts will definitely develop before others. Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Punjab, Haryana have comparable HDIs to TN, AP and TS and Karnataka. Kerala is marginally better from what I remember. HDI is medium to low in other states and I agree that they need to improve. Doesn’t mean the conditions won’t change EVER!
@@theeternalstudent6582 Oh, and a great achievement by Gukesh on being the youngest world chess champion. I am proud to be from the same country as this guy! Incredible feat.. 😊 Just realized I was commenting something related to this. Hope we have many more like him.
@@srsharma I guess simple explanations doesn't work for you. Yes, cricket existed before 1983 (BCCI is actually a Chennai registered Cricket body) but developed after India won the first World Cup. Shooting & Javelin is actually taken by very few countries, Archery is ruled by Asian countries and Boxing record is not exactly what we can be proud of. But Badminton and Table Tennis are, and where are they located? i.e. right in the South. We are allotted very few money from the central kitty and we have the records to show. What does a state like Gujarat, the state with the largest budget in the Olympics preparedness, has to offer? The strike rate of efficiently using the finances for development, whether in sports, economy or HDI is the highest in the South. "Kerala's HDI is marginally better"? The other Southern states are comparable? If you're getting your numbers from the Whatsapp University then I have nothing to say. Just look at how Tamil Nadu and Kerala handled Covid-19 and you will have the answer. The North Indians were taking refuge in our states during the crisis because they know what will happen if they went back to theirs. Seriously buddy, what does the North have to show since 77 years of its independence? I'm not mocking you, but speaking out of genuine concern at the state of today's affairs. Just look at the comment section here, do you really think your fellow citizens are learning any lesson? Hence my original statement, says a lot about us as a country!
The places of worship act is a bad law. It’s discriminatory. Every Individual has a right to seek redressal of historical wrongs. The reservations to SC/ST has been given on this very basis of alleged historical wrongs and discrimination . SG you may keep on shouting from the top but Islamist are incorrigible. Bangladesh is just a burning example in front of your eyes .
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Where does the idea of chhodo kal ki baatein go when reservation is in question ?
because caste discrimination is not just historical. It is a form of discrimination that takes place even today. Reservations will have to be collectively removed when the communities come forward enough. Tell me if Indian muslims are currently breaking temples and building mosques over them and it is is not being discussed parliament or courts.
Because caste operession, discrimination is still a reality
People get killed because they want to ride horse in the wedding, women get raped because others wants to show them their place, its still rampant. Big city its much less, small towns, villages, semi rural areas and tier two cities has this reality
Because the reality of inequalities & discriminations based on caste are AAJ KI REALITY, NOT KAL KI BAATEN
@@fawaaza.7743 Similarly, the mosques built back then after breaking temples is still exists till date.
the most cluttered subject is Waqf act. However, media for obvious reasons chooses NOT to make a cut the clutter episode on it. now this episode on a court verdict. the question that needs to be answered is, do one community have a right to worship at a religious place where their ancestors worshipped and later lost due to act of state which is illegal and how they can be denied any justice just because it happened years ago.
If thats the case than will this apply to jain and buddhist temple broken by hindu kings and will the hindus be willing to give those back to jain and buddhist people
Exactly!
When are you doing a CTC on waqf act or waqf board.Its pending since beginning of CTC....
He doesn't have the balls to do it.
no courage to do it. that's the hallmark of lutyen media and call themselves un-hyphenated
@nagbalkur1365 yes I personally reminding him since 1 year...
Gaand phatti hai inki. STSJ hi jayega.
I never understood how this act is linked to the basic structure of the constitution. Irrespective of the judgement on the places of worship act the surveys should be allowed as they only find facts and don't change the religious nature of the structure. This judgement is as ridiculous as the law itself.
considering that the fact that is it was called the basic structure of the constitution was given in the ayodhya verdict..I think people like to pick and choose according to their whims
SG u r right why open Mughal n British historical facts. But why don't u ask why a section of public is closely attaches itself with those who committed religious attrocities.
they attach themselves? how? this logic is weird. it is like asking why INdinsd are attached to supporting bal gangadar tilak when he supported child marriage. or other much older historical figures who may have supported sati.
@@fawaaza.7743A particular religious community openly celebrates and find their heros in characters like Babur and Aurangzeb instead of Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan or APJ Abdul Kalam. They try to whitewash and justify the actions of the said rulers while denying greatness to people like Kalam who belonged to the same community.
Shekhar is being a hypocrite here. You can't cherrypick chandrachud words if you disagree with his oral judgement then you must disagree with the PoW act constitutionality and The act is not protecting the Secualism. This act is discriminatory against other religions. If historical wrongs should be forgotten then What about Caste based reservation what's the need for scratching the history on this issue. What's the need for writing Dalits history which American institutes are funding. Shekhar for your info I support reservation but not in its current form. But you'll never support the Hindu cause. I know it for a fact. Maybe you agree with this govt on some issues. But Hindus will never agree on this issue with the government.
Last 10 years China rocketed ahead to be No.1 in technology through R&D priority by Chinese Gov.
India busy in last 10 years doing Hindu Muslim.
This law has nothing to do with constitution
then why are people saying opposing it is unconstitutional if it had nothing to do with it? And the bjp doesn't care what the constitution says. It just renamed the aircraft act in Hindi even though the constitution says all acts must be in ENGLISH. besides the consitituion promotes fraternity and discourages retrogression.
He just read out the text from the Ayodhya judgement that this law is given protection under the Basic Structure of the Constitution.
A tyrant who tortures rebels opposing his authority non-violently is evil, but an omnipotent deity who tortures rebels for eternity merely for rejecting his authority is not? 🤔
how can a tyrant torture non violently lol? besides, sinners and rebels are not the same but I agree with the point that gods cannot be merciful while also creating hell
@@fawaaza.7743 I meant rebels opposing the tyrant non-violently, not the tyrant torturing non-violently. Tormenting someone for mere opposition-whether called a ‘sinner’ or ‘rebel’-and doing so for eternity is pure tyranny. 😊
Collegium is the last vestige of the British Raj.
along with the law system and education system and railway system and Bengali poverty and partition and so on.
Modi has no b@lls to amend the POW act but will fire from the shoulders of the judiciary which itself has no b@lls. Good they displayed some at least finally.
If they take out mehrabs out of mosque and ignore qibla, take out the minarets and teach quran, hadiths in local langues, accept local gurus - guru nanak Sahib, mirza Ghulam qadiyani as the prophets of Islam, then the mosques are not a problem. If they want find Allah only inside kaba of mecca, then it's a big problem for the non muslims.
So "chodo kal ki baate" doesn't apply to WAQF huh? For them you're ok with claiming any of our lands, while we can't even file a case about illegally occupied ASI monuments? Got it, won't be renewing my membership.
God bless the supreme court 🥰
A good decision. Reason to feel proud of our judicial system. Nobody gains anything from digging up old mosque foundations, even if it is, most likely, build over other religious places. Need to move ahead!
Move ahead also with waqf property!
A very good order from Honorable Supreme Court
Shekhar, what if the current parliament/government decides to repeal the 1991 act?
struck down by the court as it is basic structure of constitution according to ayodhya verdict. also bjp doesn't have a majority so that's not happening
माननीय संजीव खन्ना जी काश यह निर्णय आप पहले ले लेते संभल मैं कुच्छ निर्दोष माँ बाप के बच्चे बच जाते , नफ़रत का पैमाना कुछ कम हो जाता
Shekhar Saab with all due respect to your contribution And stature in Journalism I humbly wish to add that observation and statement of former CJI lower have not Latched on to it But found clearance from SC to issue the orders for survey.
I think that would be more precise, with respect to you Sir 🙏
Thank god lets focus on actual issues now instead, god bless us
Amending the PoW and Waqf Act will end this madness
Let there be no random Land claims
This matter would have been heard by Former CJI Chandchud when the matter came first.
This unnecessary and genius (?)was allowed to keep going for long.
Great job by the Supreme Court
A 500 year old land donated by a Muslim King can be considered as "Waqf".
Is it valid in India today?
1. Contrary to what Shekhar would like us to believe, it is not as if any Tom Dick and Harry ( or any Ramu, Shamu and Bholu if you like it that way!!) is going with a petition to the Courts for survey!! All the petition are based on historical and other evidences and hence, survey is asked for so that archeological evidence is established. So every complainant is following the civil procedure within the due process of law. There can not and should not be any objection to it.
2. There is difference between place of prayer and place of worship. The Act itself gives exemption for sites under ASI. Also, to determine the character of the place, one needs to undertake a survey in any case. Today surveys can be done in an non invasive ways. We also understand that this is not against Muslims but against the foreign invaders who destroyed our cultural and religious sites and symbols. We must reclaim our past and in a civil way. So this is not Hindu versus Muslim issue. Mosques can be constructed elsewhere if it is established that it was built on a temple by the foreign invaders.
3. SC order today is just freezing the issue for the time being. Govt will have to come out clean on this issue and advise SC of its view on this unconstitutional law. Let us see how it goes in the next hearings.
4. There is no doubt that sickulars like Shekhar are really disturbed by the challenge to the Act. Modi Govt may in fact decide to amend or repeal it too, depending on how it assesses the political impact of it.
5. SC should understand that unless just decisions are made, any unbalanced judgement will eventually lead to the Ayodhya like situation in years to come. All of these cases today are in civil court and no political party is involved. But no one can guarantee what it will be like in 10 or 20 years hence. Hindus have now finally awakened to their mistreatments and injustice at the hand of successive secular governments and finally it will be the mob fury that will eventually do the justice. Hope desire and inclination to appease one community at the cost of another does not come in the way of justice, equality and common sense.
Shekhar, Hindus are ready to forgive the mistakes of medieval rulers, at the same time they retain the right to correct those mistakes in their own right. As you mentioned those incidents were mistakes committed in the past (medieval). Hindus do not need to carry the burden of secularism and it is good for secularists to give away these places and live peacefully.
Need CTC on the Atul incident and the laws that led to that
The worship Act is an act which is arbitrary and against the law of Natural Justice, If people are not allowed to go to court than is the state not provoking them to take the law in ones own hand ? This law must be done away forthwith
Get to know Sai Deepak's take on the fallacious reference to the Places of Worship Act in the Ayodhya Judgement.
@10:00 Was that word really processual? Cause the text read 'procedural' 🧐
Are you sure that you understand what is the meaning of the word SECULAR?
For them except BJP and RSS everything is secular.
@@Uncommon_Road I don't know about others but rss and bjp are definitely not secular lol.
By your argument
1. The waqf act is unconstitutional and against secular fabric
2. The places of worship act equally is unconstitutional because it discriminates and oppressed a religious right against another religious right.
There is a certain thing which is of a great value to citizens is country's own history and that could be the reason former CJI made his observation, I am apt to think it that way.
Window for historical investigation is necessary
What invaders who ruled our country for centuries,did here must be known to people and know our history.
over whelming opinion as per comments I read below tell that to print and to our SC to FO ...hindus will reclaim whats right fully there ... uske baad likhenge nayi kahani
One hand Hindus should not take up surveys,, but on the other hand WAKF can claim land starting from the Mughal era.. ..
Best solution is that in the spirit of secularism, the Muslims should admit that mosques in India were built over demolished temples, wherever. Thereafter it should not matter who prays for the Nation in those places …. Everybody is after all human
will never happen
The center is not responding to the Supreme Court because it doesn't want to anger its votebank . 😅
the Supreme Court doe snot require vote banks as it is not elected by the public.
Where all gyana goes in matter of waqf property old man?
If a temple is destroyed and it sacred scripts and deity are used to construct floor and staircase , should the community whose religious structure is built by destroying temple not feel remorseful or ashamed . What kind of religious mindset would you need to possess to insult other faith
Congress betrayed India by passing Places of Worship Act. Needs to be repealed
TOTALLY AND PERMANENTLY
Let's see
This decision must have disappointed many jobless people
Good evening Sir
The SC has to answer a lot for the current assault on secularism in the country. All the Chess talent and training centers are in the South. The North just wants to do Hindu-Muslim and Mandir-Masjid. Says a lot about us as a country!
Okay, and so what? Chess is one sport just like Cricket. There is a disproportionate number of cricketers from North when compared with South.
Chess is not a measure of IQ alone. It’s a measure of skill and mental acumen like Cricket is a game of skill and physical acumen. How does being good in one sport define priorities?
I agree we need to get away from divisive politics but by making such statements, you’re attempting to replace one division with another like there’s some moral superiority in being good at Chess in the south.
@@srsharma Cricket is a sport in development since the 1983 World Cup. What new talent has the North developed in the past few decades? Wrestling might be the only sport that could even be mentioned but even there politics is ruining it. When contrasts exist, it needs to be highlighted. One part of the country cannot be dragging the rest for eternity. It is high time that the North starts to contribute rather than leeching on the South all the time.
@ Umm, what? 1983 wasn’t when Cricket was in development! We’ve been playing for decades before that. 1983 win took it to the masses at a huge level! It takes time to nurture talents in different sports. How have you conveniently forgotten about Shooting, Archery, boxing, javelin and some even I don’t remember on the top of my head*Sigh*. I am very happy that we have great Chess players from South and hope we have manifolds more. All I want is for people to not make some connection that because we have good Chess players in South, somehow that translates to them being smarter or chess is a sport that matters and others aren’t relevant. It’s a sport just like others and not an IQ test or something to take a high ground on.
Secondly, you’re saying ‘contrast’ as if all states in the southern region have HDI above 0.9 and in the northern region it’s like half of it. Some parts will definitely develop before others. Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Punjab, Haryana have comparable HDIs to TN, AP and TS and Karnataka. Kerala is marginally better from what I remember. HDI is medium to low in other states and I agree that they need to improve. Doesn’t mean the conditions won’t change EVER!
@@theeternalstudent6582 Oh, and a great achievement by Gukesh on being the youngest world chess champion. I am proud to be from the same country as this guy! Incredible feat.. 😊
Just realized I was commenting something related to this. Hope we have many more like him.
@@srsharma I guess simple explanations doesn't work for you. Yes, cricket existed before 1983 (BCCI is actually a Chennai registered Cricket body) but developed after India won the first World Cup. Shooting & Javelin is actually taken by very few countries, Archery is ruled by Asian countries and Boxing record is not exactly what we can be proud of. But Badminton and Table Tennis are, and where are they located? i.e. right in the South. We are allotted very few money from the central kitty and we have the records to show. What does a state like Gujarat, the state with the largest budget in the Olympics preparedness, has to offer? The strike rate of efficiently using the finances for development, whether in sports, economy or HDI is the highest in the South.
"Kerala's HDI is marginally better"? The other Southern states are comparable? If you're getting your numbers from the Whatsapp University then I have nothing to say. Just look at how Tamil Nadu and Kerala handled Covid-19 and you will have the answer. The North Indians were taking refuge in our states during the crisis because they know what will happen if they went back to theirs. Seriously buddy, what does the North have to show since 77 years of its independence?
I'm not mocking you, but speaking out of genuine concern at the state of today's affairs. Just look at the comment section here, do you really think your fellow citizens are learning any lesson? Hence my original statement, says a lot about us as a country!
😂😂😂 Gupta ji
The places of worship act is a bad law. It’s discriminatory. Every Individual has a right to seek redressal of historical wrongs.
The reservations to SC/ST has been given on this very basis of alleged historical wrongs and discrimination .
SG you may keep on shouting from the top but Islamist are incorrigible. Bangladesh is just a burning example in front of your eyes .
If a place cannot change but people can be made to convert...how muslim population has grown fron 7 to 27 crores
has the population of other religions not increased.
@fawaaza.7743 how.come hindu population in pakistan has come down?