Isolation of Elemental Potassium - Mostly Failure
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Turns out Potassium was being produced, but it was so slow I thought the reaction was a failure.
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As nurdrage found out, the hygroscopic nature of the XOH in his case sodium - in yours potassium - adds a lot of H2O into the reaction destroying the produced alki metal. To fix this, Nurdrage added a drying agent into the reaction vessel, he used lithium or sodium; you might be able to use the bit of potassium you already have.
Failures of any kind in my eyes are successes. We learn from them and our personal world expands. When we do get it right we can go on to other things so win or lose we are still ahead. Thanks for the post my friend.
Is it wrong that I expected the famous "you faaaak" after he said "focus" in that tone? @1:05
NurdRage probably did not remove it, it was youtube :D they hunt the dude
That could definitely be the case, but I feel like he removed it years before youtube became a nanny state.
Him , Cody , and Nile red. It never ends.
I have the video. I downloaded it thankfully.
It wasn't removed, he just unlisted it.
@@tobinator680 Yep, actually you can access it if you search for it in Google.
That's a very cool display brother. & your "making" of the elements in it is a nice touch.
"A Dream is just a Dream. A Goal is a Dream with a Plan and a Deadline" - H. Mackay 8)
It looks like you needed a better condenser, I think the T-amyl boiled off before it had a chance to catalyze the reaction. Manually stirring the mix every so often really help in my experience as well. I hope you try again I would love to see you add a nice golf ball of potassium to your element collection :)
I think you are absolutely correct about the condenser! I did the reaction years ago using the same condenser and had success, but must have just gotten lucky. I will definitely retry with a proper cooled condenser next to round
OK man, your moth balls joke had me rolling.
That's a proper dad joke. Passed down from my father 👍🤣
Watched this at work. Bam! Thumbs up!
NICE!
It's good to see you don't hide your failures. Technically there are no failures in experiments, only unexpected results. By the way, a few weeks ago I suggested you try to make black powder using different oxidizers. Well I decided to venture into the realm of chemistry and I actually made a video on it myself. I don't want to come off like I'm advertising myself, but you were the inspiration for it, so I'd really appreciate it if you took the time to take a look at it.
Should maintain moderate stirring through the reaction and slowing at the end to coalesce the spheres of K to desired size!
You also could add a step by making a thermite reaction with of KOH and Mg in a steel can covered, then separate!
Keep going! I’m loving every post.
How about making metallic manganese? It could be fun and educacional.
That's a great idea. I would recommend a thermite extraction. You can buy MnO2 at a pottery supply store. Be sure to use a flux, as it is a very energetic composition. I usually use ~20% by weight of powdered quarz. You can also try to decompose your MnO2 to Mn3O4 by heating it up to 900°C. Mn3O4 reacts much less violent than MnO2. Also don't breath the smoke, some manganese will vaporize and it's not very healthy. If you want a chunk of decent size you schould use at least 500g of thermite. I hope I can help you with my experience. Maybe I will post some of these reactions in the future.
SomeAustrian Guy please do so it is a really interesting reaction
@@user-rz3cc9ye2q Already filmed it. I also extracted some tungsten metal, if you are interested
kwayy he did
We learn from mistakes. Keep at it, Son!
Thanks Peter 👍 giving it another go shortly
my god that was long, long ago and so on. Wow on this mate, keep it going.
Forgot to add that adding a piece of some alkali metal to destroy any water the K-hydroxide absorbed will help. Don't sell your self short, you've got this :)
Going to reattempt soon! I did it successfully before, but haven't been able to produce large quantities of potassium in recent attempts.
Dude, thanks for sharing. Maybe you flushed your reaction flask with argon, but I didn't see it: flush everything with argon! It never hurts, and probably helps a lot.
I've been trying to get a sodium mirror inside a sealed tube, starting with metallic sodium, and even this is not easy. I flushed everything - everything! - with argon, but I reckon oxygen gets in again when I'm sealing the tube up. Got a few passable mirrors but no fantastic ones so far.
Have you tried making elemental bismuth from Pepto bismol? It's not too hard and it's a neat process.
I've been meaning to try that for years! Great recommendation!
ElementalMaker I know what you need to make that happen. I’ll send you a taco to where me and my wife had a Diamondrrhea so you’ll end up buying dozens of Pepto bismol. I think we humans are kinda similar to chemical, in your case the taco is the catalyst🤗 ps. I had3x diarrhea just to proved it really from there, you know us man, always has to prove something😩well maybe just me💩. iLL include extra sauce too, that’ll probably the reactant.
@@ElementalMaker Nilered has a video on how to do it!
Interesting process 🤔 i tried making elemental Sodium using electrolysis of molten Sodium chloride a while back on my channel. Well i was able to get some pieces of burning sodium metal which gave up just some tiny hydrogen bubbles when thrown into the water, and also coloured phenolphthalein as an indicator.
So it kinda worked.
I am currently thinking about trying this using some lower melting alkaline metal salts. Should work a lot better.🤔
Very cool! I always wanted to make a downs cell! Hopefully a future project here 👍
The problem with molten salt electrolysis is that many metals are soluble in their molten salts. Potassium, Calcium, Strontium are very tricky to extract by this method. Lithium and Magnesium work very well. I don't know about sodium, as I haven't tried it. If you make potassium from a KCl melt, you could distill it directly from the melt (melting Point KCl 773°C, boiling point K 774°C).
I once tried electrolysis of molten Sodiumacetate and I had quite a bit of sodium formation. The molten metal caught fire as I removed the lid from my apparatus and I had problems with the sodium acetate getting really dirty and partly solid. I always wanted to try it again with molten NaOH but never found time for that.
@@Flederratte Electrolysis of molten NaOH works well for making sodium metal. I stored what I made in kerosene, diesel would probably work. Don't get your polarity wrong.
@@mizaru5413 what do you use to melt the NaOH in? And do you cover the freshly formed sodium?
You have to continuously mix Mg and KOH to keep the reaction going and to combine the small K beads. Nice trial!
Not in my experience. I've done this reaction several times before with zero stirring out agitation as a successfully formed large potassium globules. Many on the sciencemadess thread have as well.
@@ElementalMaker maybe... But trough stirring Mg bumps around and cleans itself for reaction. Additionally, KOH didn't conglomerate at the bottom...
I have done this reaction several times and only 50 percent of the time it worked. I usually doubled the amounts to get more potassium, but it still seems like magic if you see it working after several hours of boiling. I wouldn't crush the potassium hydroxide, because this adds too much moisture. If it doesn't begin to fume and boil very violently, in the beginning, it's pretty likely it won't work. Still nice video! :)
Yeah this was my tenth time overall attempting this reaction, and have only had 3 successful ones in total.
I have a 15g bottle of potassium and a 15g bottle of sodium I bought from a seller in Czechoslovakia recently. I still haven't opened them up because I know they are pristine samples. I just haven't found the heart in me to open the bottles yet. I've made small bits of potassium in a stainless steel cup and I think I uploaded a video of it a while back. It was a very small amount and I had done quite a few runs prior to the video. My video still looks like I'm being hap-hazard and dangerous, but that's really not the case.
When you said „focus“ my head went: „...you Fuck“ #AvE 😂
Haha gotta love uncle bumblefuck!
You made lightning bugs!
As Adam Savage says, "if you're not taking notes, you're just fucking around!" and "data collection is what makes it an experiment and not playing"... I miss Mythbusters.. I wish Tested did more stuff of him making explosives and stuff and just screwing around with science instead of just all cosplay stuff and selling things.
Buenos dias damas y caballeros! Your spanish is getting better, man.
I've heard both ways and now I have no idea which one is correct. Is there a regional difference in saying damas vs senoritas? (aside from the differences in meaning of each word)
OH EM GEE. That is the coolest shelf ever 😁
Thanks 👍
Good stuff might give this a shot :)
Thank you for posting this! Failures are sometimes more useful than successes when it comes to chemistry. I hadn’t tried tetralin for the solvent before, mainly because of cost.
Have you considered using plain old mineral oil? The hypoallergenic baby oil found in pharmacies is the high boiling fraction and should be good to use as well as being far cheaper.
Another concern I have with tetralin is that it’s only partially saturated and could potentially be the source of the Amber color and trouble with performance.
I like to see the content, even if it's a failure. Besides, you learn less from success than from failure.
Maybe a magnetic stir bar mixing the magnesium and the potassium hydroxide, although that might not work with how you've set up the heat source
Its tough with such a small rxn vessel. Also elemental K attacks teflon, so stir bars are destroyed after some time.
nurd rage is working on that sodium video so maybe he will revisit potassium as well since it's a very similar process
You can do this through electrolysis of molten potassium hydroxide using carbon/graphite electrodes - of course molten KOH will not only burn you thermally, but is extraordinarily reactive and caustic. Protective gear is mandatory. Pick the blobs of solidified potassium metal out of the KOH and place in mineral oil.
Absolutely true, but that method is also way more dangerous and difficult to replicate.
@@ElementalMaker I can tell you from experience it also has the annoying tendency to dissolve whatever is holding the molten KOH - be that glass, some ceramics, etc. Interesting from a process standpoint, though - basically the same way aluminum is extracted from bauxite on an industrial scale.
Cool that you are trying to make alkali metals now. I think you should try Francium. I think it is doable.
LOL I'll get right on that!
Nothing wrong with a fail video. We all do it, just not many will get around to that part of the story when they're telling it later, lol. But super cool to watch regardless.
Thanks Thor! And great name btw. That was my nickname all throughout college 👍miss those days
Sweet... Just fun to watch
Thanks Sean! Glad you enjoyed 👍
Thanks for the post mate. Just a suggestion..... Why not use a magnetic stir bar to keep the mixture homogeneous whilst reacting? Maybe the stirring will scratch up some of the oxides on the mg and get a reaction.
Great suggestion! I'm sure a stir bar would help, but the issue is that molten potassium will attack Teflon and destroy the stir bar.
ElementalMaker I modified a Mr Coffee milk frother to use as a mechanical stirrer. It’s made of stainless steel and could stand up to the conditions of the reaction. That might be a good alternative to a magnetic stir bar.
Now that's slick!
Nure rage has it up still
Great channel!
Thank you!
That tiny, little condenser you've got there is really cool... do you have any details?
That's a tiny little 14/20 vigerux column. Got a great old used set on ebay many years ago and that came with it. But you should still be able to find them used. Just look up '14/20 vigerux column'
Those magnesium chips(or a fair amount) would look great on top of a big pile of iron oxide and aluminimum powder.
Nah thats what my microfuse video is for! LOL
@@ElementalMaker lol oh yeah! That was a great one too! I appreciate your videos. I learn a lot from them.
lol lose of magic touch.Good video either ! I like to see fail videos,its good as success,because you learn from both sides
Where did you get your tetralin ?
I want to do damn extraction of titanium from TiO2 at home conditions so ofc Kroll process is out because of titanium tetrachloride, do u guys know how to extract this in easier way or create some useful salts/compounds? I was thinking of changing oxidation state, will it work? Btw I have graduated from science profile high school so know something
failure is just the predecessor of success
Hay, do you thing you could do a video or two on an hho generator? I've recently been doing a bunch of research on it and I'd love to see how would make a video on it.
I've already done a few videos on building an hho generator 👍
ok so I guess Ill leave out the Mg chips from the box. I opened my jug to get some out for you and noticed theyd oxidized and are almost white now. , I had to bring the box home and take out all the fuses and ematch etc. cuz the chicks at ups were scared shitless and started calling hazmat for guidance LOL, I said nevermind and took it back home,I should have never said yeah theres some flammables , usps would just ground ship no problem , I might go back to usps friday and try shipping the box from there ,it'll just cost more
Your the man Tony! Yep I have tons of Mg... literally a 50lb ingot of AM50A alloy and a couple pounds of high purity Mg ingots. Plus some powder and turnings. Bummer on the fuse & ematches! Let me know if I can cover USPS or UPS costs.
It you had some other reactive metal like lithium and dried potassium chloride at hand and heated them together at high temperatures you could make potassium metal that way.
Cody'slab made potassium metal before *(video: **ruclips.net/video/PkTaz3UEThY/видео.html)* however he used *sodium* metal rather than *lithium* which gave him *IMPURE* potassium due to sodium's lower boiling point.
Sparkling water?
Hey nice man!
DAMM !!!! I LOVE THIS HOT PLATE ❤️❤️❤️
It's served me well for many years now and just keeps going!
Yeah mate, I want to make one too it and you are the only creative guy who shows me how to do it that is why I love your channel !
Have you ever tried electrolyzing water?
Nah that's way above my skill level. You need Jedi mind powers to pull that off.
I'm still confused as to how big the legendary period table shelf thingy is...
It's pretty big. Each element cubby is 2" square plus 1/2" thick wood surrounding, so it's about 4 feet wide.
@@ElementalMaker thank you, I can now sleep in peace :)
Would there be some negative effects from putting an oxygen absorbing packet into the containers that would be stored for years at a time??
Alkai metals have a much greater affinity for oxygen than the absorbent packets, so I think they would be pretty much useless in this scenario. It's best to totally devoid your storage vessel of oxygen and seal it as best as possible. Vacuum and inert gasses are best. Mineral oil still diffuses a small amount of moisture /O2
ElementalMaker , maybe cO2 or some other heavy gas to displace the oxygen. Although I’m not really sure the affect of certain gasses and corrosion.... I know they use the same concept in food industries ie. using dry ice to displace oxygen to stop bacteria growth n whatnot.
Has anyone checked to see if Mg will react on its own with molten potassium hydroxide? It melts at 360C, so you can even melt it in most hotplates in a steel can or something.
Yextus that’s an interesting idea. I’ve done something similar to synthesize potassium permanganate. The only concern I could see with this is that the heat of the reaction could trigger the magnesium to oxidize too quickly and ignite. (Maybe, not sure on that but the idea scares me a little)
360C is not a trivial temperature, and molten potassium hydroxide is not to be handled casually. Another concern would be isolating the reaction from the presence of reactive gasses like oxygen, carbon dioxide and water vapor.
If done in an inert atmosphere such as nitrogen in a glove box, this could be a viable option if the heat proves to be enough energy to initiate the reaction.
I think it would be worth a shot if done very cautiously and on a small scale like a test tube that’s been flushed with a protective gas.
ZZTop?
A vigreux column for reflux?
Its not optimal, but I've successfuly used it in the past. Next attempt though I'm going to use a proper jacketed column with ice water, I think I was loosing alot of catalyst through the vigreux column.
@@ElementalMaker or at least use a longer one. I have a 50cm Vigreux that I got for $10 on one of the Chinese selling sites, I forgot which one exactly... might have been wish dot com
Show your work young man lol! Also keeping notes helps you to duplicate it again if needed and if something happens you can look back and see what you did and amounts etc! Other wise you get those wtf did I do moments!
He does keep notes. He showed his note book.
@@david2ljdavid2lj56 was joking like a smart ass. Lmao taking a page from his book, sorry you thought I was serious!!!!!
@@kennethyoung1980 ah dame my bad .
Do you have fluorine ?
I have a big cylinder of Teflon, which is about 75% Fluorine by mass. Its kind of cheating, but elemental Fluorine is some SCARY stuff and id rather not risk having it, or face the dangerous of making it.
...wait, what's your other job?
I was just joking around. I'm an engineer by trade.
Check out this vid: ruclips.net/video/ZPaSWfzW7R4/видео.html
He managed to isolated it using only KOH, Mg, and lamp oil. Slow process but looks to have worked!
actually looks like he use t-butanol as well
I've successfully done it several times before, this one just happened to be a failure. I'll redo the experiment soon and post the results.
Keep go make another vid when you get
Will do!
make a heat pack plz
You mean like a hand warmer heat pack?
@@ElementalMaker yes . With long life for fish transport
Who are you, on Science Madness?
Top secret 😁
Rocket+magnet experiments
I feel like you should go check out NurdRage's videos on sodium/magnesium catalyzed reactions. You might have better luck here.
I've watched all his videos on the subject. Plan to do sodium at some point soon.
@@ElementalMaker he mentioned similar potassium reactions a handful of times through his vids, what are the chances of you trying to redo the whole thing with tea tree oil or menthol or something to get your potassium?
@@wtechboy18 I have some borneol that I want to try the reaction with. I'd love to do the tea tree oil too, but need to get a consistently successful process down before switching up variables.
@@ElementalMaker Beware of the source of borneol... If you got it on ebay from a seller in India it's probably not borneol but camphor. Ask me how I know. :)
@@stamasd8500 yep that's probably my same source! I have a bunch of camphor, and it does smell a bit different, but I guess tests will show whether or not I got ripped off 🤔. I probably got ripped off just like yourself.
your videos are worth watching just for the …….."TODAY!"
LOL Thank you Gary!
I’m going to measure out 5 grams...
I think my fiancé would like it if I had a larger sample...
*Potassium = Banana* therefore *Large sample of Potassium = Big Banana*
There’s also potassium in eggplants 🍆 and who doesn’t want a bigger eggplant?
Believe the reality not the comforting lies. woman’s saying size doesn’t matter it’s how good you.. -Yeah sure🤪. SIZE Matrerrerfrackkkers. lol. but for Steve Hawkins thung skills matter
Metal k + metal Na + water = ;)
boo
Isolate uranium 235 and build a fission reactor 😂
Haha I'm trying to stay off that list! 😂
From where i was looking ot looked like you had a decent ount of metal in that ampoule. Id not have even lnown of this supposed oxidation you speak of and btw, it seems to be easier to just do a simple sn1, lithium for potassium using lithium metal and potassium salt of your choice, then distill and potassium drips over, really pretty when it starts. ❤ i edited out my question on whether you ever tried this with a dash of menthol added.. another thing you can do is add lithium chunks in metal form, just a tiny amount, kinda catalyzes metals, something i saw in another video