Bears vs. Odor Proof Bags
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- In this video I test several Odor Proof bags against a bear.
I test the OPSAK, the Coglan's Odor Proof Storage Bags and standard Ziploc Freezer Bags.
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Disclaimer
Any opinions expressed in this video are mine and mine alone and are not related to my employer or any other organization or individual. I have not been paid to make this video or to endorse a product. If I am ever paid for an endorsement or provided other compensation I will state it clearly in the video. Any advice or demonstration I provide is just advice. The viewer should take responsibility for their own actions, follow any manufacturers warnings and directions and act safely and responsibly when travelling in the backcountry.
I really appreciate your presentation style, logical explanations, and quality wildlife footage.
Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it!
One concern is when you handle the sardine can itself. Although not contaminated with any of the inside fish, I'm wondering if the can, while in the filling process/assembly line, etc., is not contaminated with "factory" residue, etc.? And when you handle the can, then close the bag with your fingers, if you're not inadvertently transferring any smell that may have been picked up on the can in the production/packaging process to the outside of the bag??
Thanks for pointing that out. My goal was to test these bags in "normal" camping conditions. What you are describing could be a thing, but it would be the same if I was camping. In fact you are likely to have dirtier and smellier hands when camping than when I did this test. If you are going to handle the bags while camping something is likely to get on the outside of them.
I’m so impressed with the quality and value of your videos! As a mom who regularly takes my kids out into the backcountry and aspires to go further, I’m learning so much from you. I’m hooked! Thank you!
That is awesome! Thanks Carlie!
Great video
I’m going to purchase an Ursack for next summers backpacking season. Looks like pairing an Ursack with a smell proof bag a good combination.
Another interesting tidbit - I bought a vacuum sealer this last summer. I vacuum sealed about 3 ounces of cashews and left them in camp all day by mistake. There were several squirrels around camp. The cashews went untouched all day.
Very cool, I am still not sure of regular plastic like Ziploc or vacuum sealed bags are as good or worse than "smell proof" bags. Lots to learn.
Your videos are level headed and logical. Not sensational. Really appreciate your approach.
I appreciate that!
Thanks for sharing this. Also for testing with a freezer back. Growing up we used those for years figuring they did something, and they probably did. I'm a fan of using the Opsack inside an Ursack Almighty bear bag, which has been 100% successful for me (so far). The key has been to keep the entire set-up as clean as possible. Dripping fish-curry soup on the outside of the Opsack or onto the bear bag, is just asking for visitors.
A lot of people have complained that the Opsack is fragile, and I agree you should baby it. But others have surmised it's a glorified, overpriced freezer bag, or not better than two freezer bags, and there may be some truth to that on a practical level.
There may be some truth to that. I have been thinking of doing some tests with my pets to see if I can prove one system is better than the other or not. I haven't gotten around to it.
@@KevinOutdoorsthat would be an awesome test to do with dogs !
@@Thatcntrygirl1 That is a great idea, I just haven't gotten around to it. We have a dog and several cats and I think a test with cat food and dog food inside odor-proof bags inside paper envelopes would be good.
Thanks for sharing the video and explaining the process of how you tested all the bags.
Thanks MrElio7 for watching! 👍
Really found your video interesting. Thought I heard you say in a previous video that you worked at a post secondary institution. Your explanation of a proper test method definitely showed why. Great job!
Thanks Jake, I appreciate the comment!
"I think it smelled something". True but that something could have been your scent that you would have left behind handling the box and what not. What did you cook for breakfast etc. Also the bear that showed the most interest would have probably gone for it had you left your drill behind after all you had about 20 #8 x 2" deck screws holding it together. What bear is going to waste their time on it without a Dewalt 20v cordless impact drill to remove the screws? Also it's more realistic to use a unopened can of sardines or at most an empty can. That's just my two cents and GREAT video :)
Hi Frank, thanks for the comments. I wasn't going for realism I was trying to see if the odor proof bags would reduce the smells enough protect the food from bears, and apparently they all passed the test. That's why I used an open can of sardines, I wanted to see if the bags would limit a very strong and attractive scent. Having the bears visit and check it out was great and as you say they could be interested in the plywood or screws or the scent on my hand but I was much more careful and my set-up had a lot less odors than a food bag on a backpacking trip might. My hands were very clean (compared to a backpacker on a remote trip) and there were no spills which might happen on such a trip. And finally I live in a rural rather than a wilderness location so these bears are very used to houses, vehicles and outbuildings so I doubt the plywood or screws was a real interest for the bear. But regardless, the bear showed a minor curiosity and didn't attack the box (which I thought it would) so to my surprise the bags work.
Impressed by the quality and the originality of your content. More, more bear-related videos please !! 🐻🍯
Thank you! Will do!
I've watched several of your bear related videos. All are excellent, with good clear information. Thanks! Very much appreciated 👍👍
Glad you like them!
Awesome video! I'm loving this bear series.
Glad to hear it!
That was super interesting. I've had the Ursack for a few years but didn't buy an odor-proof bag with it. I'm considering it now after watching your video. I never encountered a bear when backpacking, but on my last adventure last week, I was almost certain that I heard on in the area. Thanks for this.
Great video! I really enjoyed your explanation of your experiment and the discussion. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Brent, glad you enjoyed it!
I've seen this video and the Ursack video. You do a great job on both. Thanks.
Thank you kindly!
Great video thanks for making it, I’d recommend wearing gloves for the test next time when touching the odor proof sacks. Obviously we will touch these when using them out in the wild but it would help eliminate bringing a bear to the site and smelling your scent on the bags. Many times I’ve had wild animals come to a trail can and lick and bite it just where I’ve touched it. So adding the use of gloves when handling the bags would increase the control of the test eliminating any smell transfer from your hands to the outside of the bag
Thanks for the observation Clinton. Those were new bags and handled minimally but fresh gloves would have been better.
Thank you for the video! And all the effort you put into these! I do agree that the bear seemed very interested in your scent. Where you were standing, any brush that you came into contact with, the box you touched. I find it hard to believe that if there was the scent of something that a bear thought it could eat, that it would not try to get at it. It seems that what attracted the bear could have been more human scent and bear curiosity? This video has definitely sold me on the use of Opsaks. Because whatever the bear smelled, it did not think it was worth investing further and for me that is a win.
Very cool! Thank you for doing this experiment, and sharing it as a video. I find this quite useful.
Thank you! Cheers!
Awesome video! Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
I don't live in a country that has bears. Yes I am still going to watch.
It is fun to watch bear behaviour!
Really appreciate the video! You've got a good nuanced view that I really appreciate.😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video Kev! Love the trail cam footage during this awesome little test! 🙌
Thanks 👍
Very nice experiment! Thanks for setting it up
You bet, thanks Mark!
Very interesting video that clearly took you some time to put together. We have been using ursacks for a while and a couple years ago swapped from using large freezer ziplocks in them to opsacks for all food and first aid-type smellies. We always hang the ursacks away from our sleep-set up and, knocking on wood, have yet to have a problem with any critters getting in to them. The opsacks closures do eventually fail with repeated use.
Appreciate your channel content! Cheers!
Thanks Kettle Camping. Yes the OpSack that came with my Ursack no longer closes either but that was after several years of use. I didn't think any of these bags would be truly odor proof, and I still don't believe they are completely odor 'proof' but I now believe they cut down on smells enough that a non-habituated bear won't pay much attention to them.
Kevin - great video. Very well explained and full of useful knowledge. I feel much smarter today.
Thanks Craig, Other than trip videos this is the kind of video I wish I had more time to make. I certainly don't have all the answers but it gets people thinking and I hope pushes our collective knowledge. I know I learned a thing or two in making this.
Good stuff!!! Thanks for doing this.
I bet if you left food in the Ursack .. vs. Leaving food in opsack inside Ursack.. the bear would go for one with out odor proof bag.
Yes for sure.
Looks like you put some work into testing. It was fun to watch. Nice piece of property you have.
Thanks Mama, thanks for watching! 👍
Thank-you for actually using some scientific methodology in setting this up and analyzing your findings! You are freaking awesome.
You are welcome, good science would have a lot more replications but this is what I can achieve.
I heard from somewhere, might be true, that Bears sense of smell was superior to a Bloodhound.
That's the theory. Bears have millions more scent receptors in their nose than bloodhounds, they also have a much larger olfactory receptor. Check out my other video on the subject. We'll never know for sure because we can't ask a bear how well it can smell but they have all the parts to be super smellers.
Sounds like using an Opsak bag with a ursack helps to increase chances of protecting food. Some other youtubers say that the combination helps. All this recognizing that nothing is fully bear proof. Your comment about bears being habituated to a site is interesting and worth considering. Thanks for the video, this is very helpful!
Thanks for the comment. As I said in the video I was skeptical about 'odor proof' but there does seem to be a benefit. You have probably seen my real bear test of the Ursack. I do believe that using the Ursack together with an Opsak will be very effective - but nothing is 100%.
Very educational and interesting!! Thank you from Montana!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Came here browsing more bear prep vids in anticipation of a big trip being planned for this summer in Wyoming's Wind River Range where both Black and Grizzly Bears are known to roam. Here in Utah, we only have blacks, and I have found in my anecdotal experience that OP bags have been sufficient enough to keep all the creatures away, big and small, in all the backpacking I've done here in may areas where a proper hang wasn't feasible. But in preparation of this summer's trip, an Ursack is at the top of my list of any new gear to get. Though I would have still lined the Ursack with an OP bag to hold all my smellables, this vid is definitely encouraging. I also wonder if food and other scented items all stored in freezer ziploc bags, inside an OP bag, inside of a roll top Dyneema bag would reduce the smell even further. That's how I plan to do it with the Ursack I'll be getting just for an extra bit of peace of mind. I also see that what looks like a ULA pack there. Nice! Subbed.
Bears... seems like there is no perfect solution to the bear problem.
No a determined bear is hard to out wit. Only a steel container is 100% effective.
Put your dirty hiking socks on top of the ursack. Then you could sleep with the food behind your head and the bears would not want it.
I wonder if one of the mistakes made when using a smell proof bag is there is food residue on your hands? I am planning an AT trip soon and bought a bunch of smelly proof bags (hope I didnt waste my money!) and I plan on packing them in such a way that I do not contaminate the outside with any food odors, by using latex gloves when packing them. When you opened the can of sardines, you will have gotten some scent on you then you touch the bag. A better way would be open the can, put inside bag without touching the bag, wash hands, put on latex gloves to seal the bag.
Also, from doing nosework with my dog I did learn a few things about odors. The bears probably did smell it, but the scent wasnt strong enough to be a bait, it was more a residue scent.
Thanks Jill, I was very careful opening the sardines and didn't touch the oil or sardines at all only the outside of the metal can. I think you are right though the bears smelled something but didn't get enough to encourage them further. I suspect a habituated bear would have understood a greater reward was inside. Good luck on the AT. The good thing about the AT is that there are a lot of people around and that really reduces negative bear encounters. Think of your odor proof bags as an added layer of protection.
@@KevinOutdoors Thanks for answering so quickly! Got another question for you of you dont mind. I have had many AT thru hikers swear to me that having a dog with you will help keep bears away, do you think this is true?
@@BosomBuddyCreations Hi again Jill, well it all depends. A barky dog on a leash certainly is a deterrent for bears. Lots of dogs and bigger dogs are also good protection. But, dogs off leash have been known to chase bears, the problem is that the bear will eventually turn on the dog, and usually that dog will run back to its owner with the bear right behind.
And, bears, especially black bears are less likely to attack groups and that should count the dogs. Once you get to a group size of about 4 the odds of a black bear attack are very minimal.
@@KevinOutdoors thanks again! My dog will definitely be leashed!
I used the OpSak for a while but the issue I had was they do not hold up long and then I was not firm in believing the bears could not smell the contents . Thanks for your test .
Thanks James that is a good point. I can't include every detail of my research in a video but when I researched the OpSak it did have a lot of bad reviews regarding durability. There were also lots of comments about the bag not sealing properly even when new. I imagine this is the kind of product that you can get a really bad run once in a while. Now that I own a few of these I may have to do some longer term tests. Thanks again!
I appreciate your efforts in conducting this test. As you well noted the variables that existed, even the wood box may have cut down the odor some. At least in comparison to the average camper or backpacker. I will consider adding odor proof bags to my packs. I wonder some about the packaging of freeze dried food as to whether those packages are on par with the Opsak or not. There’s still something of a lingering question whether freeze dried food packages placed inside an Ursak and hung in a tree is adequate. I know many national parks in the US require bear proof canisters.
Yeah, my hypothesis on this one was smashed. Knowing that trained dogs, who have a much weaker sense of smell than bears, can find contraband after it has been packaged carefully and sealed tight, I presumed the bears would rip into each and every bag. That's why I built the wooden box. Because they didn't, and knowing that their sense of smell should be able to beat the bags I presume there is more going on here. Bears are smart and will learn what a food hang looks like, one reward and they will be hooked. So I don't think odor proof bags are the complete solution. However, it seems they cut down the odor enough to make it less interesting for the bears. My revised theory is that they can smell the food inside but that it reduces the scent to a level that they don't anticipate a great reward inside - as sardines should! :)
Was the bear showing interest in the bag or interest in the fresh cut wood smell of the box? Bears are attracted to all kinds of smell, thus, the reason that your gas can was chewed.
Great question and one that I raise in the video. There is no proof here but I suspect it is the sardines that it is smelling. This is a rural area with lots of sheds and outbuildings, and plenty of lumber and plywood around bears usually don't go after fresh cut wood.
Excellent! My biggest take away from your experiment was I really need to take additional measures and controls while camping. I will be using a four-pronged system by using Triangle Rule, Opsak bags, a hanging sack, and trip wire alarms. Le Habitants??? Where can I send you a Flyers cap?
LOL, Yes do all you can. The triangle rule is usually pretty difficult to find and wind shifts around frequently but do try and keep your food at a distance from where you sleep it at least gives you some space if anything happens. I know people use tripwires for polar bears but it can also cause additional issues if there are other campers or animals around at night. If you are serious about the hat you can PM me on FB :)
@@KevinOutdoors Yes, trip wires can be tricky. I wouldn’t use one at a populated campground. I was think for the occasion when we disperse camp in a remote area where people seldom go. I will use due diligence. Unfortunately, I don’t use FB. And, I’ve never had a FB account. However, if I did, I’d send you a Flyers lid, if you would wear it in one of your RUclips video. 👍🏻👍🏻
Interesting Kevin. I might invest in a few of these. Thanks👍
Thanks Wade 👍
Thanks for a very good video it definitely raises my confidence in using the bags, my backpack food is 100 times less smelly than that open sardine tin. Typically freeze dried meals in their own air tight pouches , inside an opsack, and waterproof food sack. Im hoping it works against rodents and other mini bears.
Thanks I was surprised too I thought that the sardines would be irresistible despite the bags. Bears can also become conditioned to recognize food bags once they get a reward so they may investigate a food bag even if they don't get enough of a smell. But still your strategy is very good.
For years growing up we put our food into freezer bags, and then into stuff sacks and did a PCT hang. I now know this is not foolproof, and you have to be really, really good at the hang to keep critters away, but we never had a problem with this system for years and years.
I now use an Ursack Almighty, and have had very good luck with it.
Great video. I would love to see mylar bags tested.
I may try that in the future.
the bears appeared more focused on the smells on the ground. so another hypothesis is the bear/s were tracking YOUR smell, or the unusual smell of the box itself, or both.
Maybe you yourself, smell like a tasty meal.
Try going out very clean and smelling of chemicals, then burying and camouflaging the bag under a pile of leaves and sticks blending in with the environment, opposed to sticking out like a white cop in a black neighborhood, inciting curiosity.
Thanks for your thoughts. I am not trying to hide the food but rather take the normal precautions you might be taking at a campsite. Although the wood is one thing that is different it provides a bit of physical protection to the bag. There are also lots of houses and sheds in this bear's territory so I doubt the wood is an unusual curiosity.
I notice that you were very careful not to touch the sardines with your fingers before touching the outside of the ziplock bag to seal it. I bet that few people keep their hands so clean when handling their food bags when camping.
True, but most of them probably don't bring sardines. :) And, I was testing the bag, not how careful people are, so I tried to give it every chance possible.
Guess again man. I'm borderline obsessive with my opsack and various smells that could potentially get on it.
Great video - nothing beats footage of a bear in the woods. Well designed 'informal' experiment, overall well done. I agree with your conclusion, and have for many years: while I doubt that Opsak and similar bags are 100% smell proof, they reduce odors to such an extent that most bears will simply move on.
Thanks Terry, yes I think it is clear that they reduce smells to the point where a bear will likely not have significant interest. I suspect a habituated bear that has had a reward previously may explore more aggressively but I don't want to habituate a bear just to prove that point 😃
How well would these work for packing out dirty diapers when camping with kids where you are trying to not smell poop while hiking or sleeping?
Probably pretty good, our nose isn't as good as a bear's.
Thanks
Welcome!
I think it did smell sardines. But when they zeroed in on the box, I think the odor of plywood overwhelmed their initial intrigue. I would try kevlar mesh (deer netting) in multiple layers that conceal the outline of the bag, and secure it to the tree so it can't be dragged into the woods. If the bear can detect sardines in an odor free bag for real, they'll bite into the netting to test where the sardines might be.
Even snapping threads on the mesh, it won't become stringy and endanger the bear. It will more likely feel like uncomfortable dental floss on their gums, and after squeezing juice of the bag, give up trying to tear it up. But it would be a good demonstration of an odorless bag inside an odorless mesh as bait.
I live in bear country and we frequently have bears in our yard and sometimes they even walk through our woodshed. We keep chicken feed in large metal garbage cans and we have had bears knock over these cans, open the lid and steal the bag of chicken feed. I can assure you that bears are not deterred by plywood. If they sensed a significant reward they would have clawed aggressively at the box.
Great vid. Thanks!!!
You're welcome!
Interesting display.
Thanks!
Seems to be the bear wasn’t hungry and fatty enough for winter nap
He certainly does look ready for his long nap.
Well done sir
Thanks.
I've seen videos of bears coming up to and smelling the camera. The bear may have been attracted to the unusual odor of your
shop built box and human odors.
That is quite possible, but the bear never smelled the cameras.
Good information.. I just found this.. I am planning a 122 mile trip this summer. No where to resupply or dump my trash. I was more concerned about trash than I was food.. Plus dog food storage. Lots of bears where I am going but no Bear canister required, I do use an Ursack.
Have a great trip, I hope this helps.
I think that bear may have just smelled the fresh cut wood, and you all over it. I would still never keep a food bag in my tent.
Good idea.
Can you please do a video on bears vs. Dyneema bags such as the one made by zPacks? I plan to use OP inside a dyneema bag.
Thanks for the suggestion. A Dyneema bag won't stop a bear. The OPSAK will cut down on odour and I am convinced that a non-habituated bear will usually ignore it.
Again another good video. Bear would come to the site even with a perfect odor-proof bag. Why? Because of the human scent and the scent of the wood you used to make the box. Now, I have two easy tests for you guys if you want to check on your plastic bags.
Add Marshmallows to your bag and seal it. You will smell the odor because you just had the bag containing the marshmallows in your hands. So leave the sealed plastic bag on the counter, then come back in 15 to 30 minutes, the time for your olfactive memory to clear. You'll know in a second if the bag is good or not. In fact, the odor of marshmallows penetrates more than the one of sardines.
Second, you can add ice cubes then leave the bag on its side in a bucket at room temperature and come back later.. You'll know right away if the bag has a good seal or not! The worst "ziplock-style bags" are the ones with a slider. There,s always a small gap at the end. If you only have that, remove the slider and seal the bag completely.
The ultimate setup? Invite Kevin to go camping with you and hide the food in his tent ;)
It might be worth a test with an empty bag and see if the bears show any interest but that is unlikely. This is a rural area with lots of thing handled by humans. Bears don't bother most items.
@@KevinOutdoors Bears loves sweet. It' be funny and interesting if you try one shot with two regular ziplocks, one with honey and the second one with marshmallows. Then do the same with OPSAK.
Could also be the fingerprints you left on the box when installing it he smelled.
It could be but this is a rural area. We get bears in our yard all the time and they don't go after places we have touched.
I just love you channel, hopefully I can put use to all this knowledge one day xD.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks Joel! Much appreciated!
I don't think the bags are giving off any odour, it's probably the smells that get onto the outside of the bag during the packaging process.
What ever is causing the bear to be interested it isn't strong enough for the bear t to invest any more time and energy trying to get into the bag so they work.
So it seems that there wasn’t really any change between the odour proof bags and a simple ziplock bag?
That's the new hypothesis. I was surprised at that result. It would be great to repeat this about 40 times with different bags and see if there are any real trends.
@@KevinOutdoors Interesting! Thanks for your reply 😊 I guess I'll stick with good ol ziplocks this weekend in the Tonquin valley
@@jwscheuerman Enjoy the Tonquin valley. My wife and I did that trail a few years ago - amazing place!
@@KevinOutdoors It's really awesome - I can't get enough of that place. Appreciate your videos btw. Subscribed!
Great video. I’ve been told that if the animal smells the food it’s b/c scent has been left on the outside of the bag. No idea if that’s true and no idea if you inadvertently did that. Like you said there’s ultimately no way we can comprehend what a bear might or might not smell. I use the OP bags but only as an extra potential level of protection. I don’t rely just on them.
I think that is the message here, use odour proof bags as an extra protective measure but don't trust them 100%. I made sure my hands were clean and I didn't contaminate the outside of the bag. That's better than in a camping situation where you are also going to handle the bag but probably under less ideal conditions.
Kevin what’s with the Montreal hat ?
Great hat isn't it? :) I grew up in a small town in Quebec. The Habs will always be my team.
I was surprised that a plain ole freezer ziplok baggie seemed to act as a bear deterrent.
ULA Ohm 2.0 backpack, same backpack & same color as mine. However, the waist belt on mine is much smaller than yours.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada.
Thanks, yes the results surprised me as well.
Did your experiment seem to suggest that the odor-proof bags are more effective than Ziploc bags?
Not really. Again I wish I had a lot more replicates of this. Based on the one replicate, it seems that the Ziploc bags were about as effective as the odor-proof bags. Sorry, there just isn't enough info to say so for sure.
@@KevinOutdoors That's very interesting. I would expect (and hope) that bags sold as odor-proof would be much more effective than Ziploc bags, but I can understand how you couldn't determine that in your small sample.
@@johnplink Perhaps the odor proof bag people will see this and give me a grant to put out 50 replicates of each kind of bag? :) Probably not.
canada is truly beautiful. most beautiful country from what ive seen.
I would agree.
@@KevinOutdoors I visit the adirondacks often, so I get a little taste of it.
underrated video.
I appreciate that.
What if just fish and no bag?
Bears can smell something in the plastic in the trail cams. Also your scent could have attracted them there.
Good thoughts, the bears didn't bother the trail cams at all. And the human scent on the bags would be no more (and probably less) than on bags used in real camping situations. Regardless the bear didn't try and pull apart the plywood box. So whatever the bear smelled it wasn't enough for them to spend more time and energy to inspect further.
@@KevinOutdoors i did notice they didn't bother the cams from what's shown, I was thinking it was what may have brought them over to that area since they didn't try to rip the box apart.
I suspect the wood smell from the box may have something to do with the results.
Nice job!
Thanks!
I'm thinking the best solution would be to use one of these bags INSIDE of the URSAK bag!
Yes that would be very safe in most situations. I believe that if the bear was habituated it would understand that that light smell it is getting would lead to more reward.
I have some questions about SUV camping. Are there ways to keep your medication, food and toiletries safely in your vehicle at night. For instance using a bin with odor proof bags placed inside a certain type of container within the bin. I want to go to state camp grounds in upper Vermont, New Hampshire, etc. Please let me know if you have good ideas for this. If things cannot be kept in a cooler or other container, besides toiletries and food are there ways to keep it safe in a tree? Thank you for your help with these videos! Have a blessed day!
Different places recommend different things. Bears have broken into locked vehicles but that is relatively rare and most parks recommend keeping food in your vehicle. I prefer a metal locked box when car camping but that often isn't an option. If you keep food in your vehicle try your best to cut down on odours. Odour proof bags and coolers are a good idea inside your vehicle.
Thank you for the tips 👍🏼. I appreciate your videos!!
Excellent video buddy has a bear hunter the one thing all these hikers are missing is doing your best to remove the scent after that what do you do a bear hang with a dining bag or a hang chew proof bag your First line of defence always needs to be sent otherwise when you go to pick up your bear bait or should I say your food cash the bear will be close by rarely will they leave the food site or go to far
Absolutely. thanks!
I would like to see a test where it's not on the tree in a box. But on the ground in a bag. Simulating being in a tent.
Thanks, I'll consider that. The location shouldn't make much difference to smell. It was also important to secure the bag in a way that the bear couldn't move it out of the frame of the camera. Securing the box up on a tree also provides a little more insight regarding the interest of the bear as they have to get up on their hind legs to investigate. It is in an awkward spot on purpose so we can tell just how interested they are.
Yea putting the box up to see their interest makes sense. Maybe the box though confused the bear somewhat or he didn’t find it worth the effort. I’m sure he can smell it’s wood.. must be thinking it’s part of the tree and the food is INSIDE the tree. No way to know what he was thinking and like you said, lot of variables. For one i think the open container is overkill as most ursacks or bear boxes will not have opened food but packaged dehydrated camping meals. So in a way it’s like your making it a million times more attractive which may be enough to negate the bag entirely. I use smelly proof and nylon-odor proof bags instead of ziplock inside my ursack, one for food and one for garbage. Im not sure they work but hey it can’t hurt.
Curious...why did you build the box instead of just putting the OPsack in an Ursack bag?
I don't remember if I had an Ursack at that point that I could have used. I ruined the one I had previously with another test. That first Ursack held up fine but it was so soaked with sardines to the extent that no amount of washing and detergent would get the oil off of the Ursack. I did replace my Ursack and if I had it during this test I would not have wanted to ruin another one. I fully expected the bear to go after this scent even though it was in a 'scent proof' bag.
Nice vid. In all reality there is something wrong here. Ive encountered bears digging thru my food in ziploc bags. Im wondering if they just werent in the mood for fish. Maybe time of year? Sounds nuts that a ziploc pile of chit would keep the smell low enough to keep the bear away. Yeah the bags reduce smell but i think if the bear wanted the fish it woulda ripped that wood off of the tree and had its way with the sardines. Was this the same time of year as the URSACK vid? The bear obviously smelled the fish and thats why it came around and even investigated the box. My theory is that it just wasnt in the mood for fish but im not an expert. Habs in 6
This is the fall when bears are theoretically most hungry. Sure they are hungry in the spring too but in the fall they try and put on the most calories as their body goes through a process called hyperphagia in preparation for winter.
I also expected the bear to rip into the box. My theory is that this bear is less habituated and the bag worked. If the bear had had a previous reward from this kind of a set up I think it would have made more effort. My theory is that these bags don't completely fool the bears, it obviously found the bag, but a more wild bear won't care, a habituated campground bear would likely try harder.
As much as I liked the video because I may be interested in something when I get back to doing overnight hiking trips, I wish I could find those Robertson type screws where I live. I know they're a staple in Canada but local Home Depot doesn't seem to offer them here in Massachusetts.
Ha, interesting that you picked up on that. The Robertson is the best design for a screw head, period. But for some reason they never caught on in the U.S.
Awesome video! Thanks so much for making it! I agree with your conclusions. Looks to me like the odor-proof bags cuts down on odors enough to where it registers as not worth their time and effort. It's basically optimal foraging theory, the bear's not expecting to get enough calories to make it worth the effort. While this isn't scientific proof, it's one data point that lends credence to odor-proof bags. Makes me feel better about my ursak+opsak combo. Thanks again!
I was surprised at the results too. Again, more replication would be good to see some real trends but one instance does indicate that it it works to some degree.
It would be smart to bring a portable electricity unit with you, on your journey, in the wood, so you can protect your food.
Interesting idea but hard to carry.
Why didn’t you just put it in an ursack? No one puts their food in a wooden box.
11:33 What efforts did I have to make? You covered the entire thing with plywood.
If the bear was really interested in it I would expect it to claw and bite at the plywood. It could probably get in or at least pull it from the tree if it tried.
The bear did not detect the fish at all. If he had....he would've eaten it. What brought him to the site was your scent you left all over the tree and the box as well as the ground around it and the trail cam...as well as the glues in the plywood. The glues used to seal layers of plywood together are unnatural to bears and because of their curiosity they will investigate it. If you want to do a true test of ODOR PROOF bags, you need to cover yourself from head to toe with scent-free (scentless detergent) clothing w/ gloves... take a hatchet in a rotted out stump and core the middle out enough to sit the bag of sardines down in (making sure to wear gloves when handling the bags and sardines even in the preparation phase). You cannot put your scent on anything. Once that's done, wipe the sardine filled bag with alcohol wipe then spray it with scent free spray. Sit it down inside the stump and put your camera up a good 20 feet away. Cover the stump cored out hole with some moss once you put the bag in the hole.
When doing a odor proof test out in the wild, you cannot allow any scent variables to "infect" even ONE aspect of the test. If you do, the test is automatically a failure before it starts.
This experiment did work, at least within the bounds of what I was testing. Gloves and scent-free detergent and clothing aren't necessary as I was trying to test how food stored by campers may or may not be detected by a bear using its nose. Normal campers don't wear gloves or use scent-free detergent, clean hands and being careful not to contaminate the outside of the bag is more than enough. As far as the plywood goes, this is a rural area and there are lots of sheds and other structures made of plywood that bears don't seem particularly attracted to. Regardless, even if the bear was interested in the plywood then he still didn't go after the food which is the whole point. I can only speculate if the bear smelled a little fish odor or was just curious about the box. Still I got a bear in frame several times and it didn't go after the bait. Therefore the bags work to at least some degree. Now if I had a video of bait and no bears I would just get a lot of comments saying I did this in a place with no bears. :)
It looked like the one bear definitely had a whiff of something but the scent wasn't strong enough for the bear to decide to expend the energy to investigate further. This might be a function of just how hungry the bear is. That bear looked pretty well fed.
It gets me thinking about what the goal is. Is the goal just to protect the food from being eaten or is the goal to not attract bears near to your camp at all? It seems the odorless bags might be effective at the former but perhaps less so at the latter.
Good observations and questions - gets back to that repeatability issue. I think it is all about the perceived reward. Bears should be still very hungry in the fall, they enter a state of hyperphagia where they try and eat constantly before the winter, but as you point out is it worth the energy? I am just guessing but I think he smells fish, just a micro amount and doesn't sense a reward. Thanks for watching!
@@KevinOutdoors It might be interesting to test this again in the spring on the other side of hibernation.
I have had similar thoughts. The woods are not sterile and not free of faint whiffs of food, perhaps all over. So the question for a bear is, is it worth going for? A faint smell even at close range should mean there’s either little food to be found, or that it’s difficult to get to. So it’s better to go for the food that smells more strongly.
It has to be checked out though, so it really doesn’t protect you from a bears visit. But if there’s not many bears in the area, an “odour proof” bag may actually mean the bears have a smaller chance of detecting it as an interesting smell, so it may help even in that case.
@@jtucker4201 Good idea. I will likely do that.
@@anhatur I agree completely. You will still attract bears but probably fewer as ones from a further distance won't be interested. Trained sniffer dogs aren't rewarded with the smell that they find, they are rewarded with food or play so even if they detect a small amount of 'something special' they are still keen to work hard at finding it. I think bears would behave the same way if they were rewarded with faint smells.
‘Odour’ 😉
Thanks Richard, as a Canadian I usually use the Queen's English but I also want my American friends to find this with their google searching 😀
@@KevinOutdoors Ha ha. Yes. Love the humor. 😉
Time to try to pique the bear's interest more, maybe just bury the bags under some leaves. It would appear that perhaps the bear who approached the box saw it as a potential trap?
Interesting experiment. Thanks!👍
Thanks, I don't think the box scares them at all. This is likely the same bear that knocked over our chicken feed cans. It happened once in the spring and he kept coming back despite the fact that the cans were empty. I don't think it is afraid of much.
I appreciate your vids--great info. However I suggest you use the proper terminology regarding "habituated" and "food conditioning". You mention habituated bears might be more persistent/bothersome, which is an incorrect use of the term. Habituated is a decline in responsiveness to a neutral stimulus. For example people ignore traffic noise at their house after a few days. What you're referring to is "food conditioned", whereby the bear associates some item with food, usually based on some typed of reward. Basically, the bear learns that that item may provide a food reward. If the bear were habituated to the item, the bear would ignore it. If food conditioned, the bear would investigate it. The two terms are unfortunately very commonly confused. Habituation may lead to food conditioning (e.g. habituated bears may not fear humans, so they investigate smells associated with humans, thereby becoming food conditioned to human items) , but they are completely different mechanisms of learning.
👍👍😊😊
Thanks.
Interesting video, but watching you cross cut that plywood made me nervous. A sled would make that cut a lot safer.
Thanks, I assure you it is very safe.
@@KevinOutdoors No need to assure me. It's you that'll take the smackin' from the kickback.
@@briantalbert I wasn't going to get into this, but sure. First of all you can't 'cross-cut' plywood. In plywood, various layers are glued together but the grain usually alternates, so every time you cut plywood you are both ripping and cross-cutting at the same time. I know what you are getting at, and that is that the piece being cut is quite wide relative to the length (at least in the direction I am cutting). Yes, this can be a safety issue, you would never cut a 2x4 this way with the widths I am cutting, you are right the wood has a risk of getting jammed between the fence and the side of the blade and kick-back can occur. The most critical thing is that there is considerable amount of length along the fence, in this case I have about 12" so there is little risk of binding, it is actually longer than the blade itself which is really safe. Secondly there is no pressure on the plywood on the left side of the blade, all the pressure is on the inside holding the plywood against the fence and down on the table. Thirdly, the width of piece being cut doesn't exceed 1.5x the length (although the overall piece is quite wide). And lastly you can't see it in the video but I never stand behind the piece of wood being cut. Oh, and the saw blade is adjusted properly so that the gullet is high enough to just clear the wood being cut but not more.
You know, it is a real wonder that people still make videos when people like you with a little knowledge in something decide to watch videos with the sole purpose of knit picking. I get this nearly every day where someone who really knows shit about something tries to one up me. You are probably a nice guy and you don't mean any harm but you have a huge internal desire to tell someone else they are doing things wrong. As creators, you drain our energy when we are just trying to add a little storyline an entertainment to the video. You probably do the same with others in your life. Here is some advice, stop it! There are a lot of people like you, you aren't trolls but you really piss off creators who do know their shit. You are likely to have rotten relationships with people if you continue with this. People just don't like it and you will erode their trust cause they know you are wrong and just trying to be a know it all. Go watch some more woodworking videos.
@@KevinOutdoors Yeah, you're funny man. No need to explain it, I understand full well. I've more than a passing knowledge and you clearly can't take constructive input or criticism. So you keep doing you man. Like I said, interesting video. I'll keep watching. Try not to distance yourself from your audience too much ... you seem to get your panties in a bunch a bit too easily. That
will turn off your base quickly and seriously, if you can't have a conversation without belittling your audience then maybe you should reconsider why you're in it all. Seems you're not up for it.
Sounds like brian talbert needs to go pick some daisies or maybe go to the local junior high and apply to be a woodworking teacher so he can feel good about himself and tell the kiddies what not to do. Maybe he is just upset that his best buddy or older brother ended up bending over his wife in 2002 and spoiled his marriage. Hey taldurrrt this is a video on bear safety and outdoors chit, go inform some dum bass on a woodworking channel about woodworking, noone here gives 2 fux, im only replying to this nonsense because i despise ppl like you. Now with all of that said how about you now bash my spelling or punctuation and inform me what i did wrong. GFY
3:07 - Congrats, you just wiped sardine oil on the outside of the bag when you sealed it with your hands. Even if you had cleaned your hands thouroughly odor molecules still floated through the air onto the outside of the bag. I would have liked to see you spray down the outside of the bag with Isopropyl alcohol or a commercially available scent killer spray (What hunters use) making sure to get it inside the lip of the bag seal.
You then proceeded to install a wooden box which was touched by human hands. All of these actions draw the attention of a bear to the bag location.
Although the bear didnt perceive a large enough reward from the reduced scent, I think sanitizing the outside of the bag and spraying down the area where the box was mounted (tree, walk path) would have eliminated almost all reason for a bear presence.
My hands were clean and dry when I sealed the bag. Yes I touched the wood and bag with my hands, I took about the same amount of precaution that one would when hanging food at a campsite. Evaporated alcohol is invisible to your nose but something "cleaned" with alcohol, especially plastics might be more smelly to a bear.
Your testing methods violate leave no trace principles and potentially endanger animals. You’re also teaching animals to go look for food in those locations you chose.
Thanks for your comments. I had absolutely no intention of practicing 'leave no trace' although I am quite sure you couldn't find the screw holes in the tree if I walked you to it. This is on my property and if I choose to put a screw hole in a tree then so be it. Bear hunters in this area do the same thing but with much larger baits that are left for a lot longer. In this case the bags worked and the bears didn't get a reward.
@@KevinOutdoors the bear isn’t your property.
@@RC-qf3mp If you don't like it, just watch something else.
This is not a good experiment, you shouldn't be testing on wild bears! You're only hurting the bears by doing this, and teaching bears in this area to be looking for food. The only bear testing that should be done is by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC). Definitely thumbs down.
But there were not grizzly bears involved 😝
Oh please Karen