Excellent explanation. I know it is nice to have a visual indicator, but I also use drones that have a nice complement of overtones to play against to check tuning aurally as well. After all, in real life you are going to have to play in tune by ear, not by watching a tuner.
Well this just blew my mind I had no idea at all that the barrel and mouth piece had anything to do with being in or out of tune. This is all very complicated I just assumed they were made to be in tune from the factory. A few months ago I purchased a bundy resonite and it came with a B45 . Today I bought a Boosey and Hawkes 20-2 with a Kelltone M which I read was a large bore so I searched for the difference between a large and small and found your video and then watched this one. Boy I sure am learning lots thank you very much. P.S. "Sticky wicket" that is a good old term that needs to be used more and " viscous rumour that was going around" Biggest laugh I have had in a while.. Thanks for that also subbed and hit the alarm .
I‘m curious about your new video and hope to learn a lot from it. I’ve been struggling with the intonation of my new setup. I’ve got a new German clarinet with a wide bore. I love it. It’s manufactory recommends buying a mouthpiece from them to prevent intonation issues. So I tested their mouthpieces and some close mouthpieces from another German company. Soundwise I preferred those of the other company, but articulation and intonation were more accurate on their mouthpieces. Now I‘ve got a warm sound but bad intonation because I bought the others company mouthpiece. I ordered a shorter barrel to raise the overall pitch of the instrument to solve the problem. This problem decreased my joy of playing the clarinet in the last month drastically.
I bought a Tosca Buffett A without checking it against a tuner. The C above the staph is 20 cents flat, the C in the staph is sharp by almost the same amount, the G above that is sharp, and the low E is at least 20 cents flat. I got it from someone who selects clarinets. I’m and Eastman dropout trying to play again after a 57 year layoff so these problems might be me but I don’t think so. I’ve been practicing with a tuner but the low G just doesn’t move. I try to set up the barrel so the two C’s are equally out of tune and try to adjust tuning with lip and tongue position but it certainly affects sound. Any thoughts? (I’ve tried 6 Vandoren BD4’s and a Frank Kaspar Chicago, all with essentially the same result.)
Love to hear and watch your videos but only you could live demo some examples! Your talking A 440 but that can’t be done with just a mouthpiece and barrel; correct? Thanks again for your time and expertise!!🙏🏻
So different mouthpieces play at different pitch centers, and you can change that with the barrel you pair it with. Can you make a video about what internal or facing characteristics in a mouthpiece or barrel effect tuning in different ranges of the instrument. For example, what should you look for or change in a mouthpiece or barrel to bring throat tones down, but not effect the pitch of the rest of the instrument as drastically? What about other ranges of the instrument like the lower or upper clarion, or even altissimo?
Great info on finding there is a problem. How about the fix? What about the relationships of the 12ths? And the altissimo which seems to have a mind of its own? Barrel bore size? Mouthpiece/barrel bore taper? Mouthpiece bore length VS size? I haven't found answers to these questions, but I am just a hacker.
well, this video was posted with rudimentary goals in mind, the primary one being getting players to actually test equipment for the GENERAL tuning levels. For example, if you test three or four mouthpieces on the same clarinet/barrel combination it becomes clear that these mouthpieces tune at different pitch levels. Some will play clearly higher or lower than the others. This is admittedly crude and unrefined, but it's better than not testing for pitch at all---which is the reality in most cases. You'll notice my example of the student playing flat just dealt with her general tuning. Failure of the band director to check the tuning level of the mouthpiece model had the practical result of demanding the student purchase and play a mouthpiece she could not play up to the general pitch level of the band. She couldn't even play up to 440, let alone the tuning levels of most student bands....which is usually well above 440, thanks to the brass section. What does the band director do as the result of his or her bad decision? Why, what most band directors always do: blame the student. Keeping that in mind the message of this video was very modest. There were actually two message here. First, you have to test to see if your choices of mouthpiece and barrel combination will play up to pitch with your organization--AS A BARE MINIMUM. Second, taking barrel/mouthpiece choices to extremes always throws the clarinet badly out of tune with itself. Message no. 2 was contained in the story about getting your clarinet made to play 440-442 to play with an accordion pitched at 444. The practical message there: always check what effect your equipment choices have on the throat tones, because when it comes to tuning they march to a different drummer than the rest of the clarinet. There was a lot left out, purposely so. You can see by the remarks posted from viewers the little information this presentation contained was already too much and confusing. Detailed questions like the ones you lay out here are, IMHO, considerations for the handful of players who have a high degree of mastery in respect to tone production. People play and voice the clarinet sound in so many strange ways saying anything definitive that will apply to everyone seems to me a virtual impossibility. It could only be done if there was a highly defined pedagogy widely adhered to and embraced as acceptable. As we both know that is not the case for a variety of reasons. Here, in 2020, the clarinet still does not have a common pedagogy or a universally acceptable acoustical design. No other woodwind is produced with such a wide range of basic acoustics. Even the basic central cylinder is produced from 14.6 up to 15.00mm, and everything in between. It's an impossible situation---so many acoustically problematic designs from the past perpetrated in the present by makers who should know better. Then there's commercial reeds---almost all poorly balanced, and players relying on them while being totally unable to even basically test for reed imbalance, let alone actually fixing the problems. Knowing about all this confusion I work within a very narrow range with my approach to pedagogy. To make progress you need a goal and the goal cannot be achieved without a clear and precise, highly developed and refined concept in the mind and in the senses---in the case of the clarinet, in the ears. The clearer and more precise the concept develops the more refined and objective everything else can be judged and progress objectively defined and achieved. Without this conceptual development you're building your clarinet "house" on a foundation of shifting sand. (That is why in my book "The Educator's Guide to the Clarinet" the first chapter concerned itself with how to begin teaching a student to develop a concept of tone, based primarily on tonal shape, not color. I always put Harold Wright's playing and phrasing up as an ideal to emulate. Wright's approach to sound and phrasing, for me, makes up the standard I present to young players for the purpose of "ear training." Keeping Wright's playing in mind will almost force a player's tone production mechanics into correctly voicing the clarinet tonal shape. Once that begins to develop the player will be on his or her way to achieving an approach to tone production that will help establish a consistent criteria by which issues of tuning can be objectively judged, and judged on a high level with dependable and practical results; repeatability is critical. Once repeatability is basically established as a "norm" in the student's playing he or she will begin to be competent to judge equipment changes. Until that evolves and develops the young player is simply not competent. That is where the teacher enters and is indispensable. Unfortunately, all to many teachers have themselves been poorly taught and trained. They know little beyond their own subjective experiences when it comes to the clarinet. These "teachers" are not really clarinet teachers. In reality, they are little more than etude assigners.
Thank you for your wisdom! What do you think about adjustable barrels. In our country the difference betwin low and high temperature are quite significant and in winter my clarinet is flat when in summer is sharp. When is a medium temperature the clarinet is playing exactly in tune. I have a leblanc opus with 66mm barrel length. The 65mm is cracked and i can't use it. I play on bd7 vandoren mouthpiece.
In band books for B-flat clarinet mouthpiece and barrell tune at concert F sharp and mouthpiece alone concert C above the staff are considered that clarinets tune well...that is what You use for test if the mouthpiece and moutchpiece+barrell tunes well?
Thank you so much for the information. I am new to clarinet and currently taking an online lesson( pre-recorded videos). And I was wondering why my pitch is always too low. I thought I will get better over time but It has been bugging me so much. Now I know that my M13 MP has the lowest pitch center... I wish I knew it earlier.!!! A new mouthpiece is on order and I will check the pitch with a tuner first.
Important and interesting topic! For Me was a constant struggle playing in a marching band for years to tune with the brass players. The conductor never satisfied with the clarinet section because flat..well one of us played enough high but He played overly compressed and pressuring the clatinet. I tried with shorter barrel but a few tones maybe helps but overall sounds terribile. How can be estimate the clarinet tune tendencies combined with barrell and mouthpiece??? And that without the reed tendencies to play flatter or higher as You say it somewhere in You'r videos on RUclips ( SOme professor tells Me but was too young then and not understand and not really interested in the subject). Is a formula with tendencies with clarinets by factory barrells ( BUffet, Selmer, Yamaha,etc...how long the instruments body and bore tape and the barrells bore and how centimeters long) combined with the mostly used mouthpieces ( VAndoren,Selmer,Yamaha,etc...). I really interested in this but not exactly how cobined this kind of info's from the manufacturers.
Excellent explanation. I know it is nice to have a visual indicator, but I also use drones that have a nice complement of overtones to play against to check tuning aurally as well. After all, in real life you are going to have to play in tune by ear, not by watching a tuner.
That's why I check my intonation in every playing session.
Your video helped me realize my b45 is the problem why I’m always sharp. Thank you so much for great information and resources.😀
Well this just blew my mind I had no idea at all that the barrel and mouth piece had anything to do with being in or out of tune. This is all very complicated I just assumed they were made to be in tune from the factory. A few months ago I purchased a bundy resonite and it came with a B45 . Today I bought a Boosey and Hawkes 20-2 with a Kelltone M which I read was a large bore so I searched for the difference between a large and small and found your video and then watched this one. Boy I sure am learning lots thank you very much. P.S. "Sticky wicket" that is a good old term that needs to be used more and " viscous rumour that was going around" Biggest laugh I have had in a while.. Thanks for that also subbed and hit the alarm .
Thanks a lot I was playing flat, but changing the mouthpiece changed my tuning
Genius men ❤
I‘m curious about your new video and hope to learn a lot from it.
I’ve been struggling with the intonation of my new setup.
I’ve got a new German clarinet with a wide bore. I love it.
It’s manufactory recommends buying a mouthpiece from them to prevent intonation issues. So I tested their mouthpieces and some close mouthpieces from another German company. Soundwise I preferred those of the other company, but articulation and intonation were more accurate on their mouthpieces.
Now I‘ve got a warm sound but bad intonation because I bought the others company mouthpiece.
I ordered a shorter barrel to raise the overall pitch of the instrument to solve the problem.
This problem decreased my joy of playing the clarinet in the last month drastically.
I bought a Tosca Buffett A without checking it against a tuner. The C above the staph is 20 cents flat, the C in the staph is sharp by almost the same amount, the G above that is sharp, and the low E is at least 20 cents flat. I got it from someone who selects clarinets. I’m and Eastman dropout trying to play again after a 57 year layoff so these problems might be me but I don’t think so. I’ve been practicing with a tuner but the low G just doesn’t move. I try to set up the barrel so the two C’s are equally out of tune and try to adjust tuning with lip and tongue position but it certainly affects sound. Any thoughts? (I’ve tried 6 Vandoren BD4’s and a Frank Kaspar Chicago, all with essentially the same result.)
Love to hear and watch your videos but only you could live demo some examples! Your talking A 440 but that can’t be done with just a mouthpiece and barrel; correct? Thanks again for your time and expertise!!🙏🏻
So different mouthpieces play at different pitch centers, and you can change that with the barrel you pair it with. Can you make a video about what internal or facing characteristics in a mouthpiece or barrel effect tuning in different ranges of the instrument. For example, what should you look for or change in a mouthpiece or barrel to bring throat tones down, but not effect the pitch of the rest of the instrument as drastically? What about other ranges of the instrument like the lower or upper clarion, or even altissimo?
Great info on finding there is a problem. How about the fix? What about the relationships of the 12ths? And the altissimo which seems to have a mind of its own? Barrel bore size? Mouthpiece/barrel bore taper? Mouthpiece bore length VS size? I haven't found answers to these questions, but I am just a hacker.
well, this video was posted with rudimentary goals in mind, the primary one being getting players to actually test equipment for the GENERAL tuning levels. For example, if you test three or four mouthpieces on the same clarinet/barrel combination it becomes clear that these mouthpieces tune at different pitch levels. Some will play clearly higher or lower than the others.
This is admittedly crude and unrefined, but it's better than not testing for pitch at all---which is the reality in most cases.
You'll notice my example of the student playing flat just dealt with her general tuning. Failure of the band director to check the tuning level of the mouthpiece model had the practical result of demanding the student purchase and play a mouthpiece she could not play up to the general pitch level of the band. She couldn't even play up to 440, let alone the tuning levels of most student bands....which is usually well above 440, thanks to the brass section.
What does the band director do as the result of his or her bad decision?
Why, what most band directors always do: blame the student.
Keeping that in mind the message of this video was very modest.
There were actually two message here.
First, you have to test to see if your choices of mouthpiece and barrel combination will play up to pitch with your organization--AS A BARE MINIMUM.
Second, taking barrel/mouthpiece choices to extremes always throws the clarinet badly out of tune with itself.
Message no. 2 was contained in the story about getting your clarinet made to play 440-442 to play with an accordion pitched at 444.
The practical message there: always check what effect your equipment choices have on the throat tones, because when it comes to tuning they march to a different drummer than the rest of the clarinet.
There was a lot left out, purposely so. You can see by the remarks posted from viewers the little information this presentation contained was already too much and confusing.
Detailed questions like the ones you lay out here are, IMHO, considerations for the handful of players who have a high degree of mastery in respect to tone production.
People play and voice the clarinet sound in so many strange ways saying anything definitive that will apply to everyone seems to me a virtual impossibility.
It could only be done if there was a highly defined pedagogy widely adhered to and embraced as acceptable.
As we both know that is not the case for a variety of reasons.
Here, in 2020, the clarinet still does not have a common pedagogy or a universally acceptable acoustical design. No other woodwind is produced with such a wide range of basic acoustics. Even the basic central cylinder is produced from 14.6 up to 15.00mm, and everything in between. It's an impossible situation---so many acoustically problematic designs from the past perpetrated in the present by makers who should know better.
Then there's commercial reeds---almost all poorly balanced, and players relying on them while being totally unable to even basically test for reed imbalance, let alone actually fixing the problems.
Knowing about all this confusion I work within a very narrow range with my approach to pedagogy.
To make progress you need a goal and the goal cannot be achieved without a clear and precise, highly developed and refined concept in the mind and in the senses---in the case of the clarinet, in the ears.
The clearer and more precise the concept develops the more refined and objective everything else can be judged and progress objectively defined and achieved. Without this conceptual development you're building your clarinet "house" on a foundation of shifting sand. (That is why in my book "The Educator's Guide to the Clarinet" the first chapter concerned itself with how to begin teaching a student to develop a concept of tone, based primarily on tonal shape, not color.
I always put Harold Wright's playing and phrasing up as an ideal to emulate. Wright's approach to sound and phrasing, for me, makes up the standard I present to young players for the purpose of "ear training."
Keeping Wright's playing in mind will almost force a player's tone production mechanics into correctly voicing the clarinet tonal shape.
Once that begins to develop the player will be on his or her way to achieving an approach to tone production that will help establish a consistent criteria by which issues of tuning can be objectively judged, and judged on a high level with dependable and practical results; repeatability is critical.
Once repeatability is basically established as a "norm" in the student's playing he or she will begin to be competent to judge equipment changes.
Until that evolves and develops the young player is simply not competent. That is where the teacher enters and is indispensable.
Unfortunately, all to many teachers have themselves been poorly taught and trained. They know little beyond their own subjective experiences when it comes to the clarinet. These "teachers" are not really clarinet teachers. In reality, they are little more than etude assigners.
Thank you for your wisdom! What do you think about adjustable barrels. In our country the difference betwin low and high temperature are quite significant and in winter my clarinet is flat when in summer is sharp. When is a medium temperature the clarinet is playing exactly in tune. I have a leblanc opus with 66mm barrel length. The 65mm is cracked and i can't use it. I play on bd7 vandoren mouthpiece.
In band books for B-flat clarinet mouthpiece and barrell tune at concert F sharp and mouthpiece alone concert C above the staff are considered that clarinets tune well...that is what You use for test if the mouthpiece and moutchpiece+barrell tunes well?
I sure do miss your RUclips video,s
Thank you so much for the information.
I am new to clarinet and currently taking an online lesson( pre-recorded videos). And I was wondering why my pitch is always too low.
I thought I will get better over time but It has been bugging me so much.
Now I know that my M13 MP has the lowest pitch center... I wish I knew it earlier.!!!
A new mouthpiece is on order and I will check the pitch with a tuner first.
Important and interesting topic! For Me was a constant struggle playing in a marching band for years to tune with the brass players. The conductor never satisfied with the clarinet section because flat..well one of us played enough high but He played overly compressed and pressuring the clatinet. I tried with shorter barrel but a few tones maybe helps but overall sounds terribile. How can be estimate the clarinet tune tendencies combined with barrell and mouthpiece??? And that without the reed tendencies to play flatter or higher as You say it somewhere in You'r videos on RUclips ( SOme professor tells Me but was too young then and not understand and not really interested in the subject). Is a formula with tendencies with clarinets by factory barrells ( BUffet, Selmer, Yamaha,etc...how long the instruments body and bore tape and the barrells bore and how centimeters long) combined with the mostly used mouthpieces ( VAndoren,Selmer,Yamaha,etc...). I really interested in this but not exactly how cobined this kind of info's from the manufacturers.
Don't pay attention to the manufacturers. Test various combinations for yourself.