Vaush is super right here. I was a mechanic for awhile, obviously the only trans woman there. It was kinda hell for awhile. They were rude, transphobic, asked invasive questions, and it genuinely sucked. But overtime, they did come around. They eventually even defended me from sexism/transphobia from customers because they saw I learned fast, wasn't scared to get dirty and worked hard. Our master mechanic, who i worked with alot. He was one of the worse of the bunch, but even he eventually came around. He was no ally, but it was a definite improvement from him calling me, " bro", every chance he got. We once had a customer bitching that I had used the womens bathroom and demanded, " only REAL women use the womens bathroom." We all knew it was a lie. Its against the rules to use the customer bathroom and the employee bathroom is waaaay better for getting car stuff off you. I remember one time we stayed after to barbecue once and theyd seen me like without my work shirt and were all like, " wow, ya know, if i didn't know you i wouldve assumed you were a woman!" " Looking better!" I remember early on, one of them tried to report me for wearing makeup to work and the boss was literally like, " are you fucking serious? You interrupt me to report this? Who fucking cares, so long as they do their job, it doesn't matter. " Coworker walks out and my boss says to me, " idk what this is, but I really don't care. Just do your job like everyone else and it doesn't matter. " " If a customer has issue with it, thats their problem." Like I said, not really an ally, but better than i thought. Unironically, that same coworker that tried to report me told me he thought i was hot lmaooo
They never did get past the "groomer" rhetoric though. On multiple occasions, one of them had their son in the lobby doing hw and he asked me to tutor his son. I agreed and it turns they'd asked me because they realized I had an autistic grasp of numbers having been a physics student in college before I dropped out. I was able to help his son a lot, felt kinda proud. But he revealed he'd been watching me the entire time and he was surprised how good I was with kids. Almost everyone in my family has been a teacher at some point, so I just picked it up. But eventually he stopped letting me tutor him. Never found out why. He gave me this almost threat the first time, " don't you try anything, if I find out, there won't be anything left of you." Or something to that effect. I asked him everyone, do you guys think I'd make a good teacher? Because we regularly talk as we work in the shop. The consensus was, " No, I'd never trust you with my kids alone. " That hurt a little, but I could only ask why. What they said basically amounted to the groomer rhetoric and I did get a little angry. " You wouldn't say that if I'd been born a woman!" And they said, " yeah but you're not! No matter what you look like now!" And that hurt too, because they acknowledge I'm not what they assumed I'd be, but they still don't trust me in this one element. I had another coworker who I actually argued with the most, he was kinda weird. He was always watching me work kinda, at first I didn't think much of it. I was new and he was teaching me stuff but I remember once he actually got too close and somehow or another he felt my chest and was surprised he said to me. " what? Those are real? You actually feel like a woman.." It was a weird encounter with him always. I think the boss caught on because within a few months of me starting he was gone. Boss man sees all ngl
Sucks that they never fully came around but at the end of the day your story proves one thing that the right doesnt want to address, exposure is key. The more kids and people in general are exposed to the realities and differences of people in the world the less likely they will be hateful intolerant people.
It must have taken a lot of strength to stay on that kind of environment, but I'm so glad to hear that things did improve. How horrible that they still upheld that "groomer" narrative despite everything, I'm sorry.
@@Tachyon836 the best way to respond to the groomer rhetoric in my opinion is to bring to their attention the fact that implying trans women are inherently pedophiles because they were "born as men", that means they also believe ALL men are inherently pedos, going by their broken logic.
The part that sucks is that you can think someone is chill and ambiguously progressive, only to find out that also they believe in one of the more off-the-wall right wing conspiracies.
Or they just have a very right wing opinion on a certain issue. I remember earlier this year when it came to men's issues, half of my twitter timeline were fighting about how we shouldn't care about that stuff.
I'm always amazed when people who are highly educated fall for these right wing conspiracies. I've always seen that the more educated you are the more liberal you are but...People like Stewart Rhodes went to Yale but then founded the Oath keepers.
@@infinitecurlie Self-deception is an inherent feature of the human race. Once you make something your identity, you'll believe anything that helps you keep it. If you're smart you just get really good at seeing those false patterns.
Yeah, one of my best friends is left leaning but extremely spiritual and therefore very pseudo intellectual and doesn't trust experts in scientific fields, which is so fucking hard to deal with lol
My dad is a flat earther and doomsdayer. Has been his whole life. He’s not even based in real life at this point. It’s sad but I’ve cut ties and accepted he’s too far gone.
I grew up in a super conservative Christian house. We were taught anything lgbtq was wrong, especially at first. I always thought it was wrong and disgusting. Then I ended up going to an arts school for high school that had more gay people than I’d ever met in my entire life. They were literally the same as me. Exposure works.
Wow this is literally my experience to a t. Like exactly. Accept for me I went to a Christian highschool and then went to an arts program in a liberal college halfway across the country. But it was exactly that experience of being exposed to people of all races, cultures, sexual orientations and gender identities. You just realize. We are all just people. And a religious text that teaches you to fear and avoid and demonize all these people not like you makes a lot more sense when you stop thinking that an all powerful benevolent father wrote them and realize they are most useful to men who wrote them to control other men. I didn't even realize how homophobic my parents were until years after I left the house. I was sitting around talking with my siblings and we realized all the subtle things we experienced in our childhood. My dad used to show like physical revulsion when there was a man on TV who dressed acted or talked even slightly feminine. Like he couldn't watch it. It didn't matter if what we were all watching and enjoying had nothing to do with anything gay, as soon as it included someone or something that had the slightest whiff of "gay" he would leave the room or change the channel. How fucked up is that?!
@@artistpino one thing that makes me fear how society is going is this. My dad, completely against all lgbtq stuff once scolded my mom at the dinner table for using the words dirty “t word”. It was when I started having gay friends and becoming more progressive even still being a Christian myself. Fast forward to today and he can’t go a single conversation without bringing up some crazy extreme right wing talking point about trans people or drag queens. He says it like it’s a joke but I know he’s not joking. Every time I see my family the topic is brought up in some way or another. Even after I stopped engaging with it because I realized nothing I said or did would change their minds.
Exposure is, in my opinion, the most effective weapon against bigotry. Because most bigotry is based on imaginary stereotypes. Bad first impressions, statistics, joking generalizations will burn stereotypes in your mind. These wash away once you spend a weekly work routine coexisting and conversing with people different than you. Because it's impossible for anyone to live up to any imaginary expectation.
Make them feel like they are the problem. When my uncle was making jokes about Biden durring Thanksgiving dinner. I just looked at him and said "I could sit here and make fun of trump, but this is Thanksgiving dinner and thats not appropriate" it shut him up so quick.
it’s crazy that genuinely horrible things they’ll say about minorities, gay ppl, etc is perfectly okay but if you mention to them that they’re breaking “proper etiquette” they lose their minds
That only works if there are people there who respect you enough to back you up and/or agree with you. My whole side of the family would tell me to get over it. I know because my dad refused to defend me when a family member berated me because I didn't understand his boomer maga meme.
With the uncle who says something cruel, you can pre-empt him with a “I know you don’t mean…” “I’m sure you don’t think/believe xyz, but saying that made it look like you were someone who believes really hateful things” Portraying you know and accept them and believe they have stumbled without realizing can be disarming
As someone who was right wing kind of and who lost friends because of it, please don’t give up on them. They’ll probably come back around on their own like I did. My best friend cut me off and blocked me off everything and I know I was in the wrong, but please don’t take it too far because like i said, they’ll possibly come around to it.
Remember that sometimes the best option is DON’T engage! I’m one of the queer people who went homeless in this way. Consider your safety and the safety of the queer people around you above the feeling of wanting to change someone’s mind.
@@crazyeight6782Thanks. It’s day by day. I’m looking to get out of my hostile state after I pay off some medical debt and maybe get a shot at normal life again. I was very fortunate to have some cash saved up that would be to continue school, but that’ll probably go on hold for a while until I can find stability again. Things could be better, but I’m very thankful and lucky that it isn’t worse.
I use the calm "Why did you do/say that?" all the time. Yeah it's with kids, oldest being 16, but it works, it makes them actually think as opposed to hating you the whole afternoon for immediately grounding them.
Being ideologically and morally isolated from my family is what drove me to Vaush in the first place. And I even recently had one of my biggest conversations with the parents ever (5 hrs) and handled their diatribe much better than I ever have before. I give full credit to you Vaush, as your level headed analysis and methodology came at a time when I needed it most. While I am still unable to convince my parents to change their positions, I was able to point out the absurdities of what they argue and feel confident more than ever that I am in the correct position. (as an example: When asking for a source to an absurd "fact" from my mother, she cited "science". Literally just the word "science". When I asked her to elaborate, she scoffed and told me to do my own research. Which means she has done zero real research herself.)
Yeah, I feel like I completely get what that's like. Like you've won the argument and everyone kind-of knows it, but they just refuse to concede anything because they know that'd mean they've lost.
my dad will do the same thing in arguments that have nothing to do with politics in the first place (he once tried to convince me my younger brother was selling drugs to kids and when i asked for proof he called me crazy and threatened to kick me out too). sometimes there just isn’t anything you can do :/
@@dracocrusher Unfortunately I doubt my parents believe I was correct or even approaching correct on any of the topics we covered. As my mother would put it "the holy spirit guides me to the truth." So anything they believe is automatically true, simply because they believe it. That's usually what I'm having to counter in these sorts of confrontations.
@@winter.soldier721 My mother once threatened to never speak to me again simply because I smelled of pot. That was the first glaring, unignorable example I had in my life that their affection is quite conditional. It woke me up to a lot I had been missing otherwise, but also really hurt. She had spent my whole life convincing me she would love and support me no matter what, and then that was all it took to shatter it. I'm grateful I was able to see through it all eventually, but damn if it doesn't make getting told such things by our parents any easier. :/
@@Mech-Mightwish you the best of luck. That kind of thing is extremely difficult to deal with. The only consolation I can give you is that it's not uncommon for parents in that situation to feel terrible for how they acted years after the fact and eventually want to try to make amends for it.
im stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, my dad and step mom are both quite transphobic and i moved out a couple months ago, mostly because i couldnt deal with the pressure. my step mom tries when in public but my dad actively doesnt, and both have tried "correcting" loved ones when im gendered correctly. i told myself that when i see them next that i wont be visiting until they both start trying to respect me, which i was going to stick with until very recently. my step brother came out as trans (transmasc), and is going to move in with them soon. i was told he was trans like 2 years ago, but this christmas was told that he was detranitioning because he wasnt trans anymore. i talked to him, and turns out that he never started detransitioning and still identifies as a guy. i want to be there for him and support him, but i need to put my foot down because maybe this push could help my parents accept him too hes started growing out his hair and wearing womens clothes again to appease his mom, and i want to be there to help him stand up to her, to give him a couple of my spare binders, to help him cut his hair, but i cant put myself through my parents, its why i moved out. my dad watches crowder, jp, all the bad ones that want me and my step brother dead. im typing this before i watched the video, maybe my worries can be addressed
I'm sorry dude, that sucks. Be that lifeline for your stepbro and support each other so neither of you are doing this alone. But do it remotely if you need to. Take care of yourself first, you have to put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.
I feel like I really lucked out. My dad had some pretty homophobic biases since he and his sister were both molested by a man when they were younger. My step mom had a brother who was gay and after he visited them for a week, all of those biases just went away. When I came out as trans, he ended up being so much more accepting than I expected. Positive exposure really can make a huge difference in how people view and treat those they consider to be other.
Vaush is right that sometimes the only thing you can do is just give up on convincing them. The despair and loneliness of being an athiest leftie in a family of christian conservatives can be really hard. It's sad when you feel like you don't belong and will never be taken seriously by the people who are supposed to love you and to have watched them transform over the years and become more hateful and angry because of it. My parents and siblings have become unrecognizable and any attempts to reach them leave me feeling stupid and alone. I feel like the only thing to do is walk away and give up.
That sucks and I'm sorry, I don't know your specific situation but the way you described yourself and your family is similar to mine. what I do to mitigate because still rely on them, is looking for neutral commonalities and slowly try to create small debates in the way they would like. sadly, this is the only method I've found to be decently effective.
Why do people feel the need to stick with people just because they're family? Would you be friends with a piece of sh!t? Then why would you feel obligated to do so just because they're your blood.
Speaking of dog whistle, Pearl Davis when confronted by Ethan Klein of H3 on why she thought the horrors of slavery was embellished, she wouldn't elaborate because of how silly and offensive her explanation would have been.
When my dad said that "poor people are evil" because being poor is a...moral failing and they stay poor just to get handouts, I knew in that moment he wasn't worth my time anymore. Haven't seen or talked to him in almost a year and a half
Call your dad, this internet politics thingy isn't as important as it looks and your positions probably wil change from time to time, family is one and you are only given one father and mother per life.
@@heyy1829 Because being blood related doesn't mean you have to put up with people you just can't get along with. Yes, it is a long standing relationship that you built for most of your life. But that doesn't mean everything goes. If that person makes you unhappy to be around, you should take care of yourself first.
@@tamolamo4698isn’t as important?? Are you fucking kidding me? So people who grew up in most conservative or strict Christian household and then grew out of that mindset should be tolerating their family who possibly ostracizes them? That shit sounds toxic…
I feel like Vaush really missed out on how effective asking people to explain themselves after a bigoted JOKE can be, though! Explaining even a neutral joke can take the wind out of its sails, and doing that with say racist jokes where people have to explain the racism works pretty well even on incredibly stupid people.
I agree with this! My dad was babbling about how the overturning of roe v. Wade being overturned was just about the government shouldn’t have to pay for abortions and I just nonchalantly said “that’s not true, there’s already laws against that” and just kept doing what I was doing till he initiated conversation more and I actually changed his mind
Yeah, but this is where I think Vausch is wrong in dealing with some people. He says "don't bring facts to the table." He often debates people who are really hardcore, and facts don't sway them, but everyday people can sometimes be swayed by facts. But the framing is still important. If you nonchalantly correct them without getting excited, as if you're correcting them on a mundane subject, it can work. Your nonchalant tone says, "I'm sure about this--it's not controversial. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just correcting what you said." Oddly, as Vausch says, the lack of apparent interest in persuasion can sometimes be persuasive.
@@kbaumgarten2151 I regrettably can say since I posted this comment my dads only moved more on the right and doesn’t give to damns about facts but I do think a regular joe off the streets would definitely be open to more factual arguments but if someone is that far gone they are more likely doing it from an emotional stand point rather than factual
I hadn't heard that one before, it's really good. It reminds me of a T.E. Lawrence quote .... if I remember it .... "fear can strengthen a system for some time but it eventually destroys the whole system to which it is applied."
Anyone in the comments interested in historical fiction but unsure of where to start should read Conneticut Yankee and The Seven Pillars of Wisdom at some point.
This advice on how to construct my rhetoric is going to be immensely helpful when my family visits, thank you. Honestly this feels important and useful enough to go on the main channel
Actually so much truth. My overtly "libertarian" friend has made consistent concession. I jokingly called him trans because he used a trans slur? Made him quiet for a long time. I call myself trans even though I'm nonbinary? They refuses to catagorize me as trans. They are very uncomfortable with the idea that I - constantly characterized as an intelligient, funny, and self-aware by people around me - am a minority. A minority that they want to make fun of & make inhuman.
The best reply to a person who consistently says, thinks and does ignorant ass shit is, "You would, think/say/do that." Pin their bs on them. Make them own their stupidity.
The most powerful response I ever gave to a parent acting bigoted in front of me was, "I think someone convinced you that you should care about this topic when it very clearly impacts your life in no way whatsoever." They were defensive, but also changed the subject instantly due to being made uncomfortable and they also have yet to bring it up ever again in my presence. Care less than they do and always question why they care so much. Act like they're the weird ones for caring so much about it, and they'll at least talk about the subject with you less. It may not change their mind, but it definitely spares your relationship with them and makes it clear you won't be a listening ear for such topics.
i agree with most of Vaush's ideas here, with one (partial) caveat. regarding engaging positively with hateful people (e.g. a trans person engaging in a positive way with a transphobe) it *can* backfire. i've personally tried this tactic and had pretty good 'success' in that the person in question clearly responded positively over time - but it HAS happened where at some point they sort of "snap back" and lash out when they, presumably, either realize that they were "cavorting with the enemy" or realize that their (also hateful) peers have seen this and become *extremely* defensive. i still think it can work, but just be careful and wary.
Street Epistemology will always be my preferred method. The main thing about crazy beliefs is that they're kinda all or nothing, so if you can just bring their confidence down a few percents, the cardhouse kinda falls on its own. It's just sadly not applicable solution to plant an angel on every crazy person's shoulder in the months to years it takes to bring their confidence down :/ That final step where they will either overcome or revert back with even more conviction than they previously had has a name for it, i just can't remember it. I just see it mostly in fiction, I don't know if it applies to the real world.
@@roberteriksen6434 well said! i never thought about the similarity to that common movie plot contrivance, but it really is kinda like that. i think it's probably peer pressure (or FEAR of peer pressure) that has the biggest impact on making some of these people snap back so harshly. like i said, i've seen it first hand, and it's gnarly.
As someone who shuts down bad when people are transphobic and trying to have an argument, I wish I wasn't as emotionally vulnerable but that's just who I am; I can't help that my body shakes like crazy the moment my anxiety kicks in, I've been seeing a doctor for years and I still haven't gotten help to the extent that it has stopped.. It's exhausting
Yo, ME TOO. I'm an animal rights activist and am trans, and even though I frequently speak out, I actually think I have anxiety! If I get in some heated disagreement where I feel like I lose control, say the wrong thing, or feel really challanged personally I have a crazy adrenaline response that takes HOURS to cool down. I'll shake, feel stressed, not know where to go, be irritable and jumpy. It has made me more and more averse to standing up. I am so scared of being wrong, saying something that misrepresents my own position and in turn something that actually hurts my causes. Even when I KNOW I'm factually and rationally right, I get this reaction. I thought it would go away as I got used to debating and activism, but as I have accumulated more bad experiences, it has gotten worse. I REALLY want to get to the bottom of it and feel safe, secure and confident. If I could be even a FRACTION as calm and confident as Vaush.
@@fromeveryting29 Not everyone can do it for sure. If you're set on activism, there might be activism that isn't so much street as it is papers or planning events. In social media terms, maybe video essays or shorts, something where you aren't live with it.
It's ok I once had a mental breakdown (I say that half jokingly) in the middle of my social studies class where I literally started shaking while explaining why that Ronald Reagan was the devil and the republicans want to kill all the gays.
Being oppressed doesn’t make you prepared to fight the oppressor. If that were the case, there would be no oppression. Emotional vulnerability is a good thing, it means you have an empathetic heart. Don’t let hatred take that gift away from you.
My parents are South African Catholic portuguese who moved our whole family to Ireland (i hate it here) because my mom legitimately believed in the Tucker Carlson-spread Nazi conspiracy theory of white farmer genocide (debunked by vaush as 8/20 000 murders in a year). My dad also has half thought out post talk ideas of racial science. My extended family is a bit better but some dinners with them are an any% speedrun to hating black people, selling timeshares and saying it was better back in the day. Their opinions on lgbt people are predictably not good. (though they are surprisingly boomer orange man bad "liberals") I wanna transition really badly but im so fucking black-pilled on my parents so im iust waiting for my chance to leave them, witb respect to Vaush for making this video, i dont think it applies to me and hell no im not gonna risk it.
Yeah, it doesn't sound worth it. Back in the 70s I had many gay friends in high school and nobody even came out of the closet until they left home at 18. Every situation is unique but when you are living with your parents sometimes it pays to avoid unnecessary conflict - it's not easy to change people's minds. Sorry about your move, but if you are in the EU, you will have immense freedom to travel and live elsewhere, so that could be very positive looking forward. That must be a horrible shock though, geographically and culturally! Brrr
Do you hate Ireland because it’s Ireland or for other reasons? I want to know as an Irish myself. Also very sorry for your situation, hope you can get away soon.
This whole thing about "be the calm, be emotionally neutral" is important for deradicalizing. It's important for blunting emotional reactionary thought, for calming the conversation and dragging it into the middle. But to push someone over to a left position does take a bit of passion.
I don't normally talk politics with people, but it's gotten to the point where a few of very close family members are so far gone that I can't be around them for more than an hour or so. edit: im not trans or anything, but my heart goes out to the trans folks who have it way worse.
@@richardarriaga6271 they go on these rants (at any given moment). if they're not totally misinformed and ignorant, then they're just the worst fear based rants. I just don't vibe with that energy, y'know?
I'm in the same situation... I just identify as asexual... but like i'm a passionate ally and get really insulted when my family starts attacking trans people, gay people, democratic/progressive politics... etc.
@@hand13932 what do you do though? Wander around feeling bad about yourself? No one wants to hire/educate hobos. Once I tried walking outside and imagining telling my family I never wanted to see them again and I imagined what it was like to have no one. I collapsed on the ground just from the thought of it. I’m just pretending to share their hateful beliefs while watching my brother argue against them. Better than having no one and no one caring about how good of a person you are and just seeing a hobo.
I actually suffered through this for years I lived with a narcissistic family member and i made it my point to try and deradicalize her from right wing politics and republican rhetoric but I eventually had to realize I need to fight for myself and not try and fight for people who won't change My dad is simular but more chaotic because he severely mentally ill bit he has the whole "since i have high IQ automatically means i can do whatever i want and say whatever, not matter how illogical it ends up being" He litterally the person I learned Marxism from and now he thinks the Rothschild family are trans 500 trillionares And hes mentally abusive to everyone around him Its fucking sad and tbh I don't even know how to be around him
yep. my dad voted obama twice and watched cosmos when i was growing up and now he's rabidly maga and thinks the same thing. wish i had a better exit plan.
My 77-year-old aunt (who is lesbian) has been very out of touch with reality for a long time, simply because her partner of about 30 years is a narcissistic crackpot Trump supporter. She has outsourced all her thinking about politics and religion to this person. She is smart but intelligence isn't the same thing as courage. (So very many people with PhDs, doctors and dentists too, assured us that Trump would be a great and "innovative" leader!) I see some of myself in her but it is just *too painful and hopeless* to make a goal of "saving her." I feel in the pit of my stomach, as it were, that she and her partner will basically self-destruct along with Trump himself. I agree, we have to fight for ourselves and not waste energy fighting for people who are too scared to change.
@@sawbonesquad4876 I get that lol My dad litterally used to say shit like "Aces and spades but no racists"(referring to his love for card games and stuff, u really don't fully know but its supposedadly a progressive message) and now he refers to black men as spades Uts really wierd especially considering my father isn't exactly given the short straw in terms of intelligence and stuff Kind amakes me get why some intellects are bigotef
its so hard to keep a level head with my family, because they purposefully say things that they know i disagree with because they WANT to start an argument. prime example happened yesterday.. i was seeing the cure with a few family members and we were talking about how cool it was that there were so many different kinds of people there. then my aunt just says “yeah but i havent seen any blacks. interestinggg” ,, LIKE WHAT DO I EVEN SAY TO THAT? 😭😭 we were also literally next to a black family as well smfh
In situations like that I would simply say nothing, and avoid giving them any attention or reaction. Just change subjects. As if to signal to them that what they said is absolutely absurd, embarrasing and unacceptable as topic of discussion. I'm an animal rights activist, and people frequently deliberately mock and make light of animal suffering, to provoke a reaction from me. I usually just stare blankly at them, give them a moment to feel shame over what they said, and then move on the conversation as if they didn't just say that. It really makes people doubt themselves. But I get that it can be quite different with close family who are around you for long and will not stop trying to bait "outrage" from you..
At that point I'd just make a point to squint at them in a way that suggests what they said was really weird. You know that one people do where they tilt their head a bit? Or just call it out as a strange thing to say, not so much saying they're wrong(whether they are or not), but questioning what made them say something that odd out loud.
The ones who do that kind of thing on purpose for the sake of causing a problem or for the sake of making you uncomfortable are generally the type of person that cannot be reasoned with ime. Politics of offense bs, because they don't seem to care at all.
@@Remedy462if someone says something bigoted about a bunch of people who are in the vicinity just trying to enjoy their night, pulling them into it seems needlessly cruel. If they wanted to interject, they could. Not everyone wants to engage bigots at every opportunity. I don't think uaing random people from marginalized groups to make a point is worth the possible distress it would cause them!
I want to make a powerpoint presentation to show to my parents especially to my mom of all the death threats and harassment I’ve gotten for being openly transgender, or even just having pronouns in my bio.
Do it. And if they try to downplay it, put it all on your mom and say how would she feel and her husband feel if the internet and people were doing that to her.
36:00 yes 1000%. I would immediately be calmed down and become interested and look at the study. All iv ever wanted is someone brave and self aware enough to have a honest conversation lol
November last year I moved into a sharehouse with someone who had some fairly right wing views. This is very much the way I've treated our political discussions and ive really sparked her interest in learning more about left leaning views and to be much more critical when taking in information from media and other sources. Still a work in progress but we have some really interesting and mature conversations on social issues lately
One of the reason why asking someone to explain their casual racist remarks (for instance) gets them to clam up is that often people say things like that expecting communal approval, and when you're putting them in a position where you're A) clearly disapproving of what they said and B) putting them on the spot to explain it, it's automatically uncomfortable.
The point on appearing happy being progressive is so important. One thing I always try to harp on when I talk about people who are fascists is how all fascists live miserable, hate filled lives. It's incredibly rhetorically effective.
Yo exposure therapy is truly amazing. I was a massive right winger until one of my friends came out as non-binary. At first I was like “no, I refuse to call a singular person a plural pronoun just in principle 😡” but when I realized like “yo this is still the friend I’ve known for so long, they just smile when I call them “they” then suddenly my grammatical principles didn’t matter anymore. I realized they were just a person like me that just wanted to be happy and that changed everything for me
This is EXACTLY the thing I’ve learned to do after getting in arguments with so many people or even relationships for example. Like outside of politics I had a friend who ghosted me all the time and instead of being all clingy and trying to maintain the friendship like I’d always do I was like “Alright we’re done” and left there. Because you gotta remember that people look back retrospectively and feel bad about stuff they did just as much as you and I do. You aren’t the only one who’s up at night thinking about that embarrassing thing you did or what you could’ve done or said better. You gotta remember that sometimes and use that to your advantage even if they don’t come crawling back.
It’s really hard to not be mad/emotional when the people you argue with don’t understand that general consensus and policy affect you directly. It’s more that you’re mad that they won’t simply try to put themselves in your shoes. That’s how I’ve undone a lot of my preprogrammed negative beliefs just by thinking about how what you think affects the person it’s targeted at. Everyone is human and just trying to live their lives, it’s not your job to govern them.
They subconsciously avoid that. Could imagine thinking the way they do with empathy as your main moral compass? No right? The same goes for them. These people learned to reject empathy or to use it in a limited amount. Either as a defense mechanism to support their beliefs or because they simply never were taught to follow said empathy (or a mental illness). So always assume empathy is off the table. Making them "unlock" said empathy is part of the unlearning process.
I have been saying this for years: most casual racism can be utterly defeated by employing the tactics of a toddler. If you keep asking "why" to make them clarify their point, it always, ALWAYS comes down to 2 options; either this thing is how it is because of external forces that can pretty easily be described as systemic oppression, or it's because there's something...genetic, at the root of why "those people" find themselves in that position. And we have a word for that thing - we call people who think that way racists.
idk if that would work Again, these people do NOT care about being called racists. They take pride in it. You'd need to make them think about why they feel that way. Lead them to do something that they subconsciously avoid.
@rompevuevitos222 I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure: a lot of people regurgitating casual racist or otherwise bigoted views straight up haven't really considered what those views actually imply. It's like the 13/50 meme. If you don't like... think about *why* such a statistic might exist, then, in a vacuum, it's just a little factoid (inaccurate as it may be) that sure does seem to imply something about black people in the US. But if you take the same strategy as a toddler would, asking why this or that thing is the way it is, you can slowly walk someone into the scenario I described above, without straight telling them "the thing you just said is racist, and I'll explain why that... hey, where are you going? I was explaining how you are racist!" And yeah, if you're talking to a knowing hate peddler hiding his power level or whatever, then you may not change THEIR mind, but that same strategy will at least force them to say it out loud, and hey: if someone else is around to watch it happen, then all the better, yeah? Most people, especially the racist ones, do NOT like being shown to be a racist, which is why they get so defensive when you straight up call them out on it. That's why I like the toddler strategy: it makes THEM call themselves out on it for you. Or, in my experience, the more likely outcome is to stop short of owning those bigoted views and just like...clam up when they see that conclusion on the horizon. Either way, you've stunted on a person with crummy opinions by making them explain why they possess them, and not just throwing a word around, however apt, that essentially guarantees they're going to take offense at instead of examining why they hold such opinions to begin with.
If people want to know how to have prejudice reduction conversations there is specific training for that taking place by some activists. Developed by Dave Fleisher and implemented by at least 2 groups. Los Angeles Leadership LGBT LAB in California and SAVE DADE in Miami. I believe Dave has a TED talk about it. The technique has been tested with a control group and studied by (somebody I can't remember). Even now they are going door to door every so often to have prejudice reduction conversations.
People with problematic positions are often polarized. It's much more instrumental for (shallow) identity than an argument. Also: polarized people impose a polarized frame on the interaction. They have a position and you are the opposite of that, which might have nothing to do with reality. They can hardly compute a centristy, neutral, objective, transcendent position you can take. It is forced into the imposed frame. When you notice this there is a lot of work to do.
I’ve always got good outcomes by simply responding with”k” To racist or bigoted comments Because it shows the absolute lowest amount of care about the comment but shows that no one cares or thinks it’s funny and no one thinks their smart and overall people just disagree and think it’s cringe as fuck.
Vaush purposely misread that, most homophobic people seem to be motivated by Christianity. The Christian stance is that sin is bad, and shouldn't be encouraged, but you aren't supposed to be too judgemental towards the sinner. If your family dislikes your actions they do not hate you, and you shouldn't cut each other off
They need an anchor to reality. Help them touch grass. Be present with them. Go golfing, go camping, go on a walk - be with them in environments where politics are irrelevant. Isolation will lead to rabbit holes especially when you get older. If the relationship is toxic, consider less contact. But try to reach out on a human level
Ooof. My friends husband is super right wing and she says she holds Republican "values" and when she was about to give birth she was like "I could get X sucked out of me right now if I wanted." I just try not to pay attention or engage with her when it comes to politics. She's also moving to Florida soon so...I imagine it will get worse. I also calmed down a lot from getting too passionate about politics which basically devolved to virtue signaling and then I realized that that's not going to make people think differently or research on their own and it just made me look like and act like an insufferable person that I didn't want to be. So now I'm either like cool story bro or I disagree because xyz but it's fine if you disagree and we can keep talking about it but know that I am a leftist and that's where my points are coming from. (I'm also in a privileged position to be able to do this tho). My husbands father is also a MAGA. Luckily no one in the family pays attention to him when it comes to politics but he is the type who watches only Fox and just yells at the tv. As much as I wish I could help him, I know he's not going to budge and he's been listening to right wing media for DECADES. Sometimes you just gotta leave people where they are.
I am living in the most rancid home situation at the moment, I'm closeted non-binary and queer, and over the last few years my already "crunchy" antii-vaxx mother has gone from regular, run of the mill conspiracy theorist to a hateful, transphobic, racist, ableist POS conservative, and part of RFK jr.'s core fundraising team. I am so glad to be moving out for college in a year, and have completely given up on having any sort of civil conversations with her or my (clone of JP) father.
Hey all, this video was loaded with great info, and very useful and relevant to me, so I took notes on it. I thought some of you might find use for a summary as well. **Make them feel like they have to prove themself to you** Don't be more invested in the conversation than they are, because it gives them power. Be casual. Acting consistently less interested in a conversation causes others to feel as if they have to defend their position. **When people make casually bigoted remarks, ask them what they mean** Very casual, just ask innocently ask them, "Well what do you mean by that?", supposedly this puts them in a bad position where they would have to explicate the prejudice in the remark they made were they to answer your question, so they often just shut down (shut up). 1 of 2 typical responses: Doubling down along the lines of "Ah haha well what did I mean by that aren't we just joking around" or backtracking and apologising. Maybe wait before commenting on someone's comment, for example with "ahh nah i didn't really like that" retrospectively. Key idea: react with "I'm not mad, just disappointed" sentiment. **Whatever image they have of someone who holds your political beliefs, be the opposite of that** >Example: 'Big Red', the red-haired SJW feminist, is seen as preachy, unhappy, unintelligent, loud and overly invasive. Act as if you are happy, disinterested and that you have your life in order, and others will be more willing to associate with you, will have less angles of attack (=stereotypes) and will have less authority over you. Make it so others know you are joyful, and be the "calm in the storm". **Don't bring evidence to the conversation** At least unprompted. People are not prepared for or expecting a data-heavy conversation, and they will shut down or become defensive. **Understand the origin of the other person's position** >Example: Transphobia/Homophobia typically come from disgust or internal self-repression on their part. People will adopt rational or pseudo-rational positions *after* already having a position from intuition in order to justify it to themselves (but will not recognise that fact). **Expose them to the things they hate** Negative emotional responses to certain things/people can be combated effectively through exposure to those things/people. When people spend time with those they are bigoted towards and have mutual or positive experiences with them, it very often becomes trivial and nonsensical to maintain those bigoted positions. ! - Do this at your own risk. Don't put yourself in danger by exposing those to you who may hurt you in one way or another. Prove them wrong by interacting with them in a way that is not about debate or confrontation. *I would add:* **Use common, colloquial language** Leftists especially have a problem of using terms that are alienating to those outside of their bubble. Words like 'Patriarchy,' 'Gender', 'Bourgeoisie' imply to many people that there is some sort of nebulous centralised entity or conspiracy, whereas in reality they are words useful for describing general mechanisms in society (interpersonal discrimination, how we see and treat people as individuals, ownership), which people can far more easily understand. Instead of alluding to lofty terms like these, argue for and describe concepts in a way that is relatable to and more easily understood by the other person. >Example: If you are trying to prove that society is divided along class lines, don't talk about Bourgeoisie and Proletariat, as that implies to many that there is some sort of grand conspiracy, an idea which people will be immediately resistant to as it isn't in line with what they already know. Instead, point to more mundane examples of people struggling to get by, how companies exploit people, lobbying, wages etc. to introduce them to class.
A friend of mines been going down the weird reactionary gay/trans “agenda” pipeline. Ive been like “why do you care?” “How many times has this personally affected you?” “How many trans people do you actually know?”. Its strange because he can also compartmentalize that he loves and respects his gay coworker, but he also thinks anything pride related in public is an “agenda”z
The reason why bigots in particular are obsessed with the concept that being "cancelled" is such a bad immoral thing is because it is constantly a threat to their bigoted beliefs. There has never been another time in history where casual beliefs of bigotry can be so easily exposed with the thing in your pocket. And that terrifies them.
I honestly don't think people being antagonized for beliefs is a good thing, this isn't turning center right people tolerant, it usually just makes them far right. Our system is arguably worse now
@@lonelyone69 We aren't talking about them, we are talking about average right wing people. Making them feel victimized is what creates the people you fear
@@metalmythology6282 there isn't a thing called regular right wing as we saw with trump they don't care how far right it goes as long as they're a populist... Reminds me of someone from 1929 😉
@@lonelyone69 Yeah you gotta stop watching left tube, my god. If you really think current right wingers are even in the same ballpark as those people you need a lobotomy
11:30 This is not too dissimilar from the "grey rock" technique that people typically use to combat narcissists. Show no emotion or interest to the narc and it will absolutely kill them that you're not playing into their hands the way they want.
What gets me is I have someone grey rocking me right now, and I am not a narcissist. I just laugh. They don't see that they are the gas lighter. They are the narcissist,not me. I let them keep going because they are so brainwashed. It's not worth my time.
I'm pushing 50 now. I came out as gay in 2003 when I was 25. My father has a history of hateful behaviour towards his children. I am honestly of the opinion he would have kicked me out of the house if I came out in in my late teens when I knew I was different.
The beginning about people not wanting to be convinced resonated strongly with me. Just yesterday I was talking with my father and he said the usual "I don't mind transgenders or whatever you call *it*, I just don't want to have it shoved down my face" I asked him to define what determines if something is shoved in his face, because there are plenty of things we see on a daily basis. He replied "Visibility. If I can see it." I said "Okay, how do you feel about billboards? Are you against those? I've never heard you complain about them." He sighed and asked to change the subject because I "wasn't listening" to him. Like...what can I even do about that, lol.
My general response to bigoted comments like that are along the lines of "straight people get shoved in our faces all the time. That's all I ever saw growing up. I rarely if ever saw anyone like me. Why doesn't that bother you?" It's never worked on them for me, though, because they see that as "normal" and therefore "good", but there's only so much you can say in response and I'm just so tired and bitter at this point. I don't know how some can keep combatting it the way they do, it's so exhausting and often painful, but respect.
I think you lost him the moment you changed from single questions and got more intense. A more subtle approach (that wouldn't put him in the defensive) would be to simply ask "So, like a billboard or an ad?" THEN you can bring up that there's ads about straight couples everywhere. But again, don't get emotional, remain calm.
Listen and listen good. IF YOU ARE LGBTQ+ OR EVEN IF PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE, GET A GUN, GET TRAINED, GET YOUR LICENSE TO CARRY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY CARRY IT.
Well, that rule quickly breaks at the example of Jordan Peterson. Passion can be very persuasive, but yes, most often the person who exudes more confidence, either through emotional passion or calm referencing of facts looks more convincing and are taken more seriously. Confidence is key, which is kind of bad, because many non-confident people are actually the ones who are right and should be confident, while clueless and dishonest people look confident.. :(
Credibility is something that we somehow subconsciously associate with lack of emotion. A fundamentally flawed mentality, yet it's the first thing our brain opts to for some reason.
I use evidence to try to convince people because that's what convinces me. I live my life obsessively trying to be as introspective as possible, engaging in logical discussions with everyone who disagrees with me so they can prove me wrong. I try to get myself proven wrong, if someone gave me evidence during a passionate argument about why I shouldn't do a thing, I'd consider it depending on how credible the evidence is. I reflexively try to avoid being stuck in my ways because to do so would be to trap myself in an echo chamber of my own mind where I can never truly know if I'm correct because I haven't taken in the opposing evidence.
@@jaceking5938 I lived my entire life thinking that was just how people are because of the whole "facts over feelings" meme and so I was always confused when people (mainly science teachers, I had one that thought the moon was hollow and that climate change was fake) wouldn't have their minds changed or even altered whenever I cited 43 credible sources over email. I'm very autistic
@@BigSteve9713 He says it's an alien spaceship on the inside and that the aliens are watching us through powerful telescopes because in one very specific picture taken from really far away, the craters look *about* the same depth. He also cited a NASA article about the moon ringing like a bell, read the article and it said the reason it did that was because it was more solid than the earth, so literally the opposite of what he said Fairly certain he also believes in the jewish question, what a shocker
Yeah, this feels pretty on-point. I always get too invested and I try to bring up actual facts and prod people for questions and stuff, calling out what they're doing, and it's like... they don't care. It doesn't matter how many good jokes or zingers I work in, they're not going to read that shit. I need to get them on my side by being more apathetic or skeptical of their side first, and then move into the heavier stuff afterwards. Like give proof if they start talking about it, you know? Otherwise, I'm just wasting time and effort on nothing.
Exactly! They're not going to read *anything* about climate change; they will have to move to a high-rise beachfront condo in Florida themselves and die suddenly when the soil liquefies underneath it. That's the only sort of "education" they understand.
Thanks for videos like this. I'm a lefty in a deep red Ohio county, and the political discourse has gone so far downhill I've essentially closed myself off. And I know that's not the right way to be, so I'm trying to clean up my discourse skills as well as sharpen my knowledge.
If an uncle said something inappropriate… I'd make a beeline to his kids. I'd explain to them WHY he said those things. WHY they are wrong. HOW it is unbelievable that people who are responsible for their position have the nerve to criticize anybody on earth… after living off of the demise of others & laughing about it at parties!
Litterally just had a fight with my dad and he just kept yelling that I was part of the machine, I just want to atleast make it uncomfortable to bring up his dumbass takes in front of me
This is what I've continued to tell people in relation to these discussions- a person is more likely to double-down on their beliefs and shutdown if you're yelling at them. It's the same in both directions. I feel a lot of people these days don't understand what is needed to be diplomatic and how important diplomacy is to get your point across, especially the tact and patience of doing so. There's a saying where I'm from: "You get more flies with sugar than with vineagar." Be willing to listen. Be willing to try to understand what led the person to the thoughts that they have. You can't have peace when throwing hate and festering fear. The Yoda quote is essential for us to remember: "“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
I am such a carefully crafted two-faced bitch with my family. I say the most mild middle of the road things when contentious topics come up to protect myself and built my boundaries just so I can walk away when necessary. It's really helpful to avoid issues since I live with them... Your personal safety comes first! Nothing I say will convince them. It is isolating but I do try to be the one sane person for another family member who's also going through similar shit. Depending on your situation do what you gotta do to be able to get out sane enough to function.
I feel falling insleep, so I come t before I forget. But it also important to realise that changing an opinion take some time. In my case it always happens after the conversation. It like some paths had to be changed in my head. And then some days later I suddenly seems to have change mind. And I agree it’s the other person. I’m 70, and sometimes you need an update on my age. 😊
Any advice on how to deal with a father who is a biblical traditionalist in the most extreme sense? Highly patriarchal (he considers this a good thing) view of family structure. Considers LGBT to be sin in the extreme.
have you tried setting up a "Home Alone"-style trap that ends with him getting comically conked on the head by a coconut or something? that might actually change his mind
@@FirstnameLastname-ju7em I am currently doing this. Fortunately for my health he lives on the other side of the country from me (sometimes the other side of the world). I have come out to him already, and have successfully obtained most/all of his family through his mother's side (my grandmothers). His fathers side is pretty disconnected from us anyway (after his parents' divorce there was never a lot of contact).
Despite basicly my entire imediate family being cool leftists, my dad is a socialist and mostly understands queer issues, somehow my younger brother (13) has fallen down the alt right pipeline. Hes specificly hung up on being a christain, despite my parents being atheist and not introducing anything like that to us when we were younger. Its a very tough situation, he fights with us, mainly my mom, constantly. You can tell this mindset isnt doing him well because he talks about emotions not mattering, and despite previous interest in things like princesses he now insists gay people sin and men need to be masuline and whatnot. Once he even started crying while insisting being gay is bad. I have a horrible feeling that he might be queer but hates himself. It feels like theres no hope in convincing him, hes always been hard to get through to. we try our best though, with conversation, being visibly accepting, and subtly pushing positive influences on him. It just feels so hopeless, this video has helped me think through my interactions with him though.
This is a child, he isn't getting his ideas out of thin air. It could be political (or other type) grooming online, bullying in school, his friend circle all being from conservative families, an adult man being weird, etc. You and your parents should look into reasons why not leave the kid alone. He's clearly going through something violent. Imo bullying is the most likely case.
My brother has strong connections with the oath keepers even though he doesn’t care about their ideology, he is fine with them. He doesn’t want people to know about his connection with oath keepers because other people will be afraid of him and his family as he hates rejections, especially how his wife has told him to shut up about their connections with the oath keepers after he has been bragging about it to other people. He was able to connect one of my cousins and her family to the oath keepers.
He's going to end up on a federal law enforcement watch list. Oath Keepers are probably 50% criminal informants at this point. The entire militia movement is a farce, honestly. I can't believe they managed to pull off as much as they did in that insurrection. It's not the same thing it was in the 1990s. The militia movement in those days was scary af. Their leader is a one-eyed willy guy who literally shot his own eye out because he couldn't practice proper muzzle discipline.
@@bongodave13Compounding on this, maybe ask them why other people would be afraid of him if word got out. Invite him to examine it from the perspective of something like *"What if I had ties to an Antifa cell"* or insert whatever terrorist adjacent group into the mix. You can always threaten to bring it up at a family gathering if he doesn't break ties with them. Like go up to him at Christmas and tell him that he has to go outside and make some calls for a few minutes or you're going to dump it out in front of everyone and the stupid club that he's in is going to ruin the holidays for everyone and tear your family apart.
@@StomachPlug my family was proud of his connection while at the same time denying it. The same about my cousin’s too how they backpedal their arguments.
I haven't finished this yet so maybe he said this already, but for cishet white allies, it's important to not get personally offended on behalf of others. We have the advantage of engaging with a modicum of personal distance from these situations, and would be wise to bear this in mind.
There was a time when I was genuinely an extremely bigoted person. It was the classics of homophobia and transphobia and casual racism. The way that I started to get out of it was actually the exposure method that Vaush was talking about. However, I've noticed that me getting pulled out wasn't from making friends with gay people or trans people or more black students moving to our school when the area for those allowed to attend was expanded, no it was none of those. It was when I was in the CallMeCarson discord server and I joined a furry server in order to raid it and harass the furries and then one of them said something that piqued my interest. After that, I actually stayed in that and just lurked there. I read everything that was said and looked at all of the art. I joined some voice chats and listened to some of these peoples' stories and jokes. When I eventually left the server after a very long period of inactivity on discord, I started to look into other avenues of what was out there. I got really into online art culture, I joined the Steven Universe fandom, I watched tons of Undertale content, I even stayed active in the Slimecicle discord until it eventually shutdown and met some of my closest friends there that I still hang out with till this day. I started out as a bigoted little white boy that knew nothing outside of his little southern town, and I've ended up as a confident, wise young woman with amazing friends and a world of opportunity ahead of me. There is no way I can express how much I don't want things to end with my parents in the way that they look like they're going to, and this video gives me hope that I can maybe, just maybe, push the relationship that have with my parents into the right direction. Thank you for more wisdom my friend, it means the world.
This is incredible, thank you for this. How about religious people? Lost cause? I have a group of friends that are otherwise quite liberal but their book says no to LGBTQ+. I get a lot of "it's fine but I don't want them around my kids, and why do they have to shove it down our throats?" (they think it's a social contagion, and it's bad because their god says so). I try to hit back with "yes but also there's a lot of shit in that book that we don't follow anymore like women being property, slavery, killing disbelievers, etc" and that they're just normal people trying to exist. (I'm a cishet man btw)
Religion is based on not believing in science and believing in the Bible instead, so there’s really no way to argue with them if they’re dead set on those views unfortunately.
50:51 - This is called the 'Mere-exposure' effect or the familiarity principle. Basically, we like things more if we are more familiar with them. It's kind of like exposure therapy for bigots, the more time they spend around the things they hate (say black people) and not end up hating them (because they bonded over a sports team they both like), the less they hate those things. Edit: lmao, hits pause button, Vaush basically says what I typed straight after
I was raised christian and conservative, I’d watch Fox with my parents every night and sometimes Fox and friends in the morning. I had a couple of queer friends but I often ignored that part of them or distanced myself from them after finding out. A friend I’ve known since 1st grade (she was bi but I didn’t know) had a surprise for me after school. She tricked me into going to our high school’s GSA. I had to listen to a bunch of queer people tell their stories for an hour and that changed me lol. Now I am engaged to a woman and a leftist lmao. I felt really vulnerable and uncomfortable in that situation, but everyone there talked about how they felt and how it’s hard that their friends and family don’t accept them and I’m like, shit that’s me.. it was a wake up call too that I had a bunch of friends in that club that I didn’t know were queer.
The timing of this video coming out is crazy. Divine intervention levels. I had a very eye opening conversation with my dad yesterday and have been trying to figure out if I should confront him for his far right beliefs or not and, if I chose to confront him, how to approach it.
Regardless of his beliefs you should probably respect him and let him figure his life out. Honestly though I really doubt he's far right, far left brainrot from you probably
@@metalmythology6282typical right wing thought process based on self induced vibes. Just because your dad never valued your input doesn't mean everybody else's don't.
Ok i have a story to tell, i was at my sister's house and helping her with the kids and my dad was there and i mentioned the strange tradition (or something) of people that usually live in cold places do, its the "hot sauna and cold plunge" i think it was referred as, and as soon as I mentioned that thing that people do just because it came out of my mouth im wrong or get made fun of because i know something that no one else knows about, heres another one did you know the hawaiian name for a reef triggerfish, it's called a "humuhumunukunukuapua'a" my sister certainly didn't and for the Proseeding day i was made fun of for knowing that thing.
my gf is a convert to Judaism & she comes from a family of Evangelical Christians in the American South. they are almost always making comments about it whether it’s refusing to use her chosen name (very similar to deadnaming a trans person) or making general antisemitic comments. it often exhausts her to deal with it, so what i do is ask them what they meant by it. i do it after the fact, & *always* 1 on 1 so when they ask me why i’m bringing it up now, i can say i didn’t want to start at argument in front of everybody. i feel this part is key. then, because they ultimately do care about their daughter/cousin/niece/etc they will be much more inclined to listen. if your going to do this on someone else’s behalf, always get that person’s permission first. but i feel like it’s a great way to help out a loved one or a friend.
In January I retired from a job where I was surrounded by mostly MAGA people. Some of them are still my friends. For awhile I tried to confront them about things they were saying- especially stuff that’s easily debunked. When I pointed out that something that was untrue they would say “well it’s still funny.” I saw it as a lost cause and I pretty much just avoided political conversation with most of them
I posit that disgust *IS* a fear-based response. We have so many words to nuance emotions and color them with context, but at the end of the day we have two types of emotions: those that encourage/reward behavior, and those that dissuade/punish it. From a pure utility perspective, "disgust" and "fear" serve the same use: stay away from / don't allow that thing. I think this is useful framing because we can get past trying to identify emotion and understand simply that people have aversions to things. I would lump all negative emotions into that of fear, as fear is the English word we most easily associate with one's automatic response (fight or flight). I think fear comes primarily from a single source: the loss of control. When our organism feels that it can no longer accurate predict outcomes and/or does not have the power to shape the environment into our expectations, we feel really bad. This response manifests itself as anxiety, which is then expressed through whichever emotions our hardwiring / experience determines is most likely to get us to avoid the stimuli. When someone is reacting to something with negative emotion, the question we can ask ourselves is "What does this person feel like they're losing control of?" For instance, homophobia might be a result of someone's religious beliefs. The same religious beliefs that say homosexuality is bad come from the same sources that give the person a sense of purpose and meaning and quells their existential dread. Accepting that their religious texts and/or upbringing is not be an accurate model of their life is part and parcel to accepting homosexuality. If this is the case, any lack of control they have in their existence as a human is no longer guaranteed to be the plan of an all benevolent god who ensures they'll live in eternal grace at the end. That's a very strong force to contend with. Unless they adopt a new belief system, the best you can likely get is for them to carve out exceptions. Another example with homophobia could be someone's fear that someone of the other gender could take a potential mate. Just as the black man that will take all the white women with his BBC, this can be seen as an insurmountable threat by the insecure. The idea of such a situation gives the feeling of a lack of control and therefore a fear response.
Can confirm this rhetoric works Source: Me, who used to make unfunny attack helicopter jokes until someone who was working backstage with me in theater asked why I thought it was funny Obviously it took some time for me to come around but I'm glad I did b/c I'd rather accept my brother for the man he is now instead of being stuck in that whole reactionary mindset
9:33 there was this one server I was in with friends, and one of them was making some very uncomfortable racist jokes. I left without really saying anything. In the end, the friend came to me for the conversation, and they eventually apologized and stopped making the racist jokes. I doubt I would have had the same effect if I was preachy to them in the server
Vaush is super right here.
I was a mechanic for awhile, obviously the only trans woman there. It was kinda hell for awhile.
They were rude, transphobic, asked invasive questions, and it genuinely sucked.
But overtime, they did come around.
They eventually even defended me from sexism/transphobia from customers because they saw I learned fast, wasn't scared to get dirty and worked hard.
Our master mechanic, who i worked with alot. He was one of the worse of the bunch, but even he eventually came around. He was no ally, but it was a definite improvement from him calling me, " bro", every chance he got.
We once had a customer bitching that I had used the womens bathroom and demanded, " only REAL women use the womens bathroom."
We all knew it was a lie. Its against the rules to use the customer bathroom and the employee bathroom is waaaay better for getting car stuff off you.
I remember one time we stayed after to barbecue once and theyd seen me like without my work shirt and were all like, " wow, ya know, if i didn't know you i wouldve assumed you were a woman!" " Looking better!"
I remember early on, one of them tried to report me for wearing makeup to work and the boss was literally like, " are you fucking serious? You interrupt me to report this? Who fucking cares, so long as they do their job, it doesn't matter. "
Coworker walks out and my boss says to me, " idk what this is, but I really don't care. Just do your job like everyone else and it doesn't matter. " " If a customer has issue with it, thats their problem."
Like I said, not really an ally, but better than i thought.
Unironically, that same coworker that tried to report me told me he thought i was hot lmaooo
They never did get past the "groomer" rhetoric though.
On multiple occasions, one of them had their son in the lobby doing hw and he asked me to tutor his son. I agreed and it turns they'd asked me because they realized I had an autistic grasp of numbers having been a physics student in college before I dropped out.
I was able to help his son a lot, felt kinda proud. But he revealed he'd been watching me the entire time and he was surprised how good I was with kids. Almost everyone in my family has been a teacher at some point, so I just picked it up. But eventually he stopped letting me tutor him.
Never found out why.
He gave me this almost threat the first time, " don't you try anything, if I find out, there won't be anything left of you." Or something to that effect.
I asked him everyone, do you guys think I'd make a good teacher? Because we regularly talk as we work in the shop.
The consensus was, " No, I'd never trust you with my kids alone. "
That hurt a little, but I could only ask why. What they said basically amounted to the groomer rhetoric and I did get a little angry.
" You wouldn't say that if I'd been born a woman!"
And they said, " yeah but you're not! No matter what you look like now!"
And that hurt too, because they acknowledge I'm not what they assumed I'd be, but they still don't trust me in this one element.
I had another coworker who I actually argued with the most, he was kinda weird. He was always watching me work kinda, at first I didn't think much of it. I was new and he was teaching me stuff but I remember once he actually got too close and somehow or another he felt my chest and was surprised he said to me. " what? Those are real? You actually feel like a woman.."
It was a weird encounter with him always. I think the boss caught on because within a few months of me starting he was gone.
Boss man sees all ngl
Sucks that they never fully came around but at the end of the day your story proves one thing that the right doesnt want to address, exposure is key. The more kids and people in general are exposed to the realities and differences of people in the world the less likely they will be hateful intolerant people.
It must have taken a lot of strength to stay on that kind of environment, but I'm so glad to hear that things did improve. How horrible that they still upheld that "groomer" narrative despite everything, I'm sorry.
@@Tachyon836my god youve got guts, i could never work in that environment.
@@Tachyon836 the best way to respond to the groomer rhetoric in my opinion is to bring to their attention the fact that implying trans women are inherently pedophiles because they were "born as men", that means they also believe ALL men are inherently pedos, going by their broken logic.
The part that sucks is that you can think someone is chill and ambiguously progressive, only to find out that also they believe in one of the more off-the-wall right wing conspiracies.
Or they just have a very right wing opinion on a certain issue. I remember earlier this year when it came to men's issues, half of my twitter timeline were fighting about how we shouldn't care about that stuff.
I'm always amazed when people who are highly educated fall for these right wing conspiracies. I've always seen that the more educated you are the more liberal you are but...People like Stewart Rhodes went to Yale but then founded the Oath keepers.
@@infinitecurlie Self-deception is an inherent feature of the human race. Once you make something your identity, you'll believe anything that helps you keep it. If you're smart you just get really good at seeing those false patterns.
Yeah, one of my best friends is left leaning but extremely spiritual and therefore very pseudo intellectual and doesn't trust experts in scientific fields, which is so fucking hard to deal with lol
Re: the whole construction industry. Worker solidarity one moment, high octane white genocide the next.
My dad is a flat earther and doomsdayer. Has been his whole life. He’s not even based in real life at this point. It’s sad but I’ve cut ties and accepted he’s too far gone.
Damn, sorry
@@MoonshineH yeah, he’s also recruited my abusive ex husband into his madness and they are both team anti-me. It’s very bizarre.
@@BranMuffin365 yikes! I hope you stay clear of those two 💜
That's wild
Just wait until doomsday comes soon bruh
I grew up in a super conservative Christian house. We were taught anything lgbtq was wrong, especially at first. I always thought it was wrong and disgusting. Then I ended up going to an arts school for high school that had more gay people than I’d ever met in my entire life. They were literally the same as me. Exposure works.
Wow this is literally my experience to a t. Like exactly. Accept for me I went to a Christian highschool and then went to an arts program in a liberal college halfway across the country.
But it was exactly that experience of being exposed to people of all races, cultures, sexual orientations and gender identities. You just realize. We are all just people. And a religious text that teaches you to fear and avoid and demonize all these people not like you makes a lot more sense when you stop thinking that an all powerful benevolent father wrote them and realize they are most useful to men who wrote them to control other men.
I didn't even realize how homophobic my parents were until years after I left the house. I was sitting around talking with my siblings and we realized all the subtle things we experienced in our childhood. My dad used to show like physical revulsion when there was a man on TV who dressed acted or talked even slightly feminine. Like he couldn't watch it. It didn't matter if what we were all watching and enjoying had nothing to do with anything gay, as soon as it included someone or something that had the slightest whiff of "gay" he would leave the room or change the channel. How fucked up is that?!
@@artistpino one thing that makes me fear how society is going is this. My dad, completely against all lgbtq stuff once scolded my mom at the dinner table for using the words dirty “t word”. It was when I started having gay friends and becoming more progressive even still being a Christian myself. Fast forward to today and he can’t go a single conversation without bringing up some crazy extreme right wing talking point about trans people or drag queens. He says it like it’s a joke but I know he’s not joking. Every time I see my family the topic is brought up in some way or another. Even after I stopped engaging with it because I realized nothing I said or did would change their minds.
That's why people in cities are statistically more progressive than people in rural areas: exposure.
Exposure is, in my opinion, the most effective weapon against bigotry. Because most bigotry is based on imaginary stereotypes. Bad first impressions, statistics, joking generalizations will burn stereotypes in your mind. These wash away once you spend a weekly work routine coexisting and conversing with people different than you. Because it's impossible for anyone to live up to any imaginary expectation.
@@artistpinoyour dad is definitely closeted lol.
Make them feel like they are the problem. When my uncle was making jokes about Biden durring Thanksgiving dinner. I just looked at him and said "I could sit here and make fun of trump, but this is Thanksgiving dinner and thats not appropriate" it shut him up so quick.
it’s crazy that genuinely horrible things they’ll say about minorities, gay ppl, etc is perfectly okay but if you mention to them that they’re breaking “proper etiquette” they lose their minds
That only works if there are people there who respect you enough to back you up and/or agree with you. My whole side of the family would tell me to get over it.
I know because my dad refused to defend me when a family member berated me because I didn't understand his boomer maga meme.
C'mon we know you couldn't tell a joke to save your sorry life...
This is a tough line to walk but still glad this seemed to work out. Funny thing is this can work regardless of political leanings pretty much
With the uncle who says something cruel, you can pre-empt him with a “I know you don’t mean…”
“I’m sure you don’t think/believe xyz, but saying that made it look like you were someone who believes really hateful things”
Portraying you know and accept them and believe they have stumbled without realizing can be disarming
Oh gosh yes! When you give the impression that you have generous expectations of a person, they're more likely to want to meet those expectations!
Thanks for the good info!
As a parent of a teen this is hard to watch, go hug your kids y'all
My kids started school this year and im so scared they are gonna get super bullied cause i exist... 😢
Not family but people I've been friends with for a looong time that have turned out to be very right wing and reactionary. I needed this, thank u
As someone who was right wing kind of and who lost friends because of it, please don’t give up on them. They’ll probably come back around on their own like I did. My best friend cut me off and blocked me off everything and I know I was in the wrong, but please don’t take it too far because like i said, they’ll possibly come around to it.
I was right wing years ago.... I slowly drifted left on most issues. Don't give up.
@@firefly9838
Donald Trump blue pilled me. Before Donald Trump entered politics I used to be a Right Winger!
Orange Pilled 😲
@@IsraelLlerena z fbhvv if ok 😊 ithanks I
Remember that sometimes the best option is DON’T engage! I’m one of the queer people who went homeless in this way. Consider your safety and the safety of the queer people around you above the feeling of wanting to change someone’s mind.
I’m sorry, Jade. How are you doing now?
@@crazyeight6782 why do you think their name is Jade?
@@hannayapelekai1628 probably because their parents either loved emeralds or crystals
@@crazyeight6782Thanks. It’s day by day. I’m looking to get out of my hostile state after I pay off some medical debt and maybe get a shot at normal life again. I was very fortunate to have some cash saved up that would be to continue school, but that’ll probably go on hold for a while until I can find stability again. Things could be better, but I’m very thankful and lucky that it isn’t worse.
@@hannayapelekai1628you can see names on profiles; I don’t remember putting my English name here but there it is 🤷🏻♀️
I use the calm "Why did you do/say that?" all the time. Yeah it's with kids, oldest being 16, but it works, it makes them actually think as opposed to hating you the whole afternoon for immediately grounding them.
This is so useful. I do it with adults and it turns the biggest ahitlord conservative trolls into triggered snowflakes.
Being ideologically and morally isolated from my family is what drove me to Vaush in the first place.
And I even recently had one of my biggest conversations with the parents ever (5 hrs) and handled their diatribe much better than I ever have before. I give full credit to you Vaush, as your level headed analysis and methodology came at a time when I needed it most. While I am still unable to convince my parents to change their positions, I was able to point out the absurdities of what they argue and feel confident more than ever that I am in the correct position.
(as an example: When asking for a source to an absurd "fact" from my mother, she cited "science". Literally just the word "science". When I asked her to elaborate, she scoffed and told me to do my own research. Which means she has done zero real research herself.)
Yeah, I feel like I completely get what that's like. Like you've won the argument and everyone kind-of knows it, but they just refuse to concede anything because they know that'd mean they've lost.
my dad will do the same thing in arguments that have nothing to do with politics in the first place (he once tried to convince me my younger brother was selling drugs to kids and when i asked for proof he called me crazy and threatened to kick me out too).
sometimes there just isn’t anything you can do :/
@@dracocrusher Unfortunately I doubt my parents believe I was correct or even approaching correct on any of the topics we covered.
As my mother would put it "the holy spirit guides me to the truth." So anything they believe is automatically true, simply because they believe it. That's usually what I'm having to counter in these sorts of confrontations.
@@winter.soldier721 My mother once threatened to never speak to me again simply because I smelled of pot. That was the first glaring, unignorable example I had in my life that their affection is quite conditional. It woke me up to a lot I had been missing otherwise, but also really hurt. She had spent my whole life convincing me she would love and support me no matter what, and then that was all it took to shatter it.
I'm grateful I was able to see through it all eventually, but damn if it doesn't make getting told such things by our parents any easier. :/
@@Mech-Mightwish you the best of luck. That kind of thing is extremely difficult to deal with.
The only consolation I can give you is that it's not uncommon for parents in that situation to feel terrible for how they acted years after the fact and eventually want to try to make amends for it.
im stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, my dad and step mom are both quite transphobic and i moved out a couple months ago, mostly because i couldnt deal with the pressure. my step mom tries when in public but my dad actively doesnt, and both have tried "correcting" loved ones when im gendered correctly. i told myself that when i see them next that i wont be visiting until they both start trying to respect me, which i was going to stick with until very recently.
my step brother came out as trans (transmasc), and is going to move in with them soon. i was told he was trans like 2 years ago, but this christmas was told that he was detranitioning because he wasnt trans anymore. i talked to him, and turns out that he never started detransitioning and still identifies as a guy. i want to be there for him and support him, but i need to put my foot down because maybe this push could help my parents accept him too
hes started growing out his hair and wearing womens clothes again to appease his mom, and i want to be there to help him stand up to her, to give him a couple of my spare binders, to help him cut his hair, but i cant put myself through my parents, its why i moved out. my dad watches crowder, jp, all the bad ones that want me and my step brother dead. im typing this before i watched the video, maybe my worries can be addressed
That sucks. Sounds like it’ll be tough for a few years before it truly gets better. My friends in the south have similar issues. Good luck.
Good luck; with a dad that watches Crowder you’ll unfortunately need every bit of it
I'm sorry dude, that sucks. Be that lifeline for your stepbro and support each other so neither of you are doing this alone. But do it remotely if you need to. Take care of yourself first, you have to put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.
sounds like you all need to go to therapy.
@Jessie grow up.
I feel like I really lucked out. My dad had some pretty homophobic biases since he and his sister were both molested by a man when they were younger. My step mom had a brother who was gay and after he visited them for a week, all of those biases just went away. When I came out as trans, he ended up being so much more accepting than I expected. Positive exposure really can make a huge difference in how people view and treat those they consider to be other.
I think my family is just kinda autistic because statistics and fact based arguments immedietly win lmao
based
Common autistic W
Vaush is right that sometimes the only thing you can do is just give up on convincing them. The despair and loneliness of being an athiest leftie in a family of christian conservatives can be really hard.
It's sad when you feel like you don't belong and will never be taken seriously by the people who are supposed to love you and to have watched them transform over the years and become more hateful and angry because of it. My parents and siblings have become unrecognizable and any attempts to reach them leave me feeling stupid and alone.
I feel like the only thing to do is walk away and give up.
That sucks and I'm sorry, I don't know your specific situation but the way you described yourself and your family is similar to mine. what I do to mitigate because still rely on them, is looking for neutral commonalities and slowly try to create small debates in the way they would like. sadly, this is the only method I've found to be decently effective.
Same
Do it. There are lots of other people that you can relate with and who will support you.
fuck em. why waste so much emotional energy on such shitty people
Why do people feel the need to stick with people just because they're family?
Would you be friends with a piece of sh!t?
Then why would you feel obligated to do so just because they're your blood.
Speaking of dog whistle, Pearl Davis when confronted by Ethan Klein of H3 on why she thought the horrors of slavery was embellished, she wouldn't elaborate because of how silly and offensive her explanation would have been.
When my dad said that "poor people are evil" because being poor is a...moral failing and they stay poor just to get handouts,
I knew in that moment he wasn't worth my time anymore. Haven't seen or talked to him in almost a year and a half
thats insane breaking up with your own parents because of a different moral/political viewpoint i will never understand how people can be so radical
Call your dad, this internet politics thingy isn't as important as it looks and your positions probably wil change from time to time, family is one and you are only given one father and mother per life.
@@tamolamo4698
Blood of the covenant is thicker than water of the womb.
@@heyy1829 Because being blood related doesn't mean you have to put up with people you just can't get along with.
Yes, it is a long standing relationship that you built for most of your life. But that doesn't mean everything goes. If that person makes you unhappy to be around, you should take care of yourself first.
@@tamolamo4698isn’t as important?? Are you fucking kidding me? So people who grew up in most conservative or strict Christian household and then grew out of that mindset should be tolerating their family who possibly ostracizes them? That shit sounds toxic…
Thanks vaush. I don’t think you can ever really understand how much of an impact you really have and how much we appreciate stuff like this.
the "make them explain themselves" would be great if it weren't for the fact that the people we're engaging with literally have room temperature iq's
"People don't agree with me, they must be f-cking stupid" - you, a totally smart person
I feel like Vaush really missed out on how effective asking people to explain themselves after a bigoted JOKE can be, though! Explaining even a neutral joke can take the wind out of its sails, and doing that with say racist jokes where people have to explain the racism works pretty well even on incredibly stupid people.
I agree with this! My dad was babbling about how the overturning of roe v. Wade being overturned was just about the government shouldn’t have to pay for abortions and I just nonchalantly said “that’s not true, there’s already laws against that” and just kept doing what I was doing till he initiated conversation more and I actually changed his mind
Yeah, but this is where I think Vausch is wrong in dealing with some people. He says "don't bring facts to the table." He often debates people who are really hardcore, and facts don't sway them, but everyday people can sometimes be swayed by facts. But the framing is still important. If you nonchalantly correct them without getting excited, as if you're correcting them on a mundane subject, it can work. Your nonchalant tone says, "I'm sure about this--it's not controversial. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just correcting what you said." Oddly, as Vausch says, the lack of apparent interest in persuasion can sometimes be persuasive.
@@kbaumgarten2151 I regrettably can say since I posted this comment my dads only moved more on the right and doesn’t give to damns about facts but I do think a regular joe off the streets would definitely be open to more factual arguments but if someone is that far gone they are more likely doing it from an emotional stand point rather than factual
"No good argument can compete with petrified training"- Mark Twain (A Connecticut Yankee in king Arthur's court)
I hadn't heard that one before, it's really good. It reminds me of a T.E. Lawrence quote .... if I remember it .... "fear can strengthen a system for some time but it eventually destroys the whole system to which it is applied."
Anyone in the comments interested in historical fiction but unsure of where to start should read Conneticut Yankee and The Seven Pillars of Wisdom at some point.
This advice on how to construct my rhetoric is going to be immensely helpful when my family visits, thank you. Honestly this feels important and useful enough to go on the main channel
reddit got so bad even the reddit mascot left it
@@Torgan454 lmao
Actually so much truth. My overtly "libertarian" friend has made consistent concession. I jokingly called him trans because he used a trans slur? Made him quiet for a long time. I call myself trans even though I'm nonbinary? They refuses to catagorize me as trans.
They are very uncomfortable with the idea that I - constantly characterized as an intelligient, funny, and self-aware by people around me - am a minority.
A minority that they want to make fun of & make inhuman.
You're actually friends with a libertarian scumbag? You can do better than tolerate something that wouldn't tolerate you.
The best reply to a person who consistently says, thinks and does ignorant ass shit is, "You would, think/say/do that." Pin their bs on them. Make them own their stupidity.
The most powerful response I ever gave to a parent acting bigoted in front of me was, "I think someone convinced you that you should care about this topic when it very clearly impacts your life in no way whatsoever."
They were defensive, but also changed the subject instantly due to being made uncomfortable and they also have yet to bring it up ever again in my presence.
Care less than they do and always question why they care so much. Act like they're the weird ones for caring so much about it, and they'll at least talk about the subject with you less.
It may not change their mind, but it definitely spares your relationship with them and makes it clear you won't be a listening ear for such topics.
i agree with most of Vaush's ideas here, with one (partial) caveat. regarding engaging positively with hateful people (e.g. a trans person engaging in a positive way with a transphobe) it *can* backfire. i've personally tried this tactic and had pretty good 'success' in that the person in question clearly responded positively over time - but it HAS happened where at some point they sort of "snap back" and lash out when they, presumably, either realize that they were "cavorting with the enemy" or realize that their (also hateful) peers have seen this and become *extremely* defensive. i still think it can work, but just be careful and wary.
Street Epistemology will always be my preferred method. The main thing about crazy beliefs is that they're kinda all or nothing, so if you can just bring their confidence down a few percents, the cardhouse kinda falls on its own. It's just sadly not applicable solution to plant an angel on every crazy person's shoulder in the months to years it takes to bring their confidence down :/
That final step where they will either overcome or revert back with even more conviction than they previously had has a name for it, i just can't remember it. I just see it mostly in fiction, I don't know if it applies to the real world.
@@roberteriksen6434 well said! i never thought about the similarity to that common movie plot contrivance, but it really is kinda like that. i think it's probably peer pressure (or FEAR of peer pressure) that has the biggest impact on making some of these people snap back so harshly. like i said, i've seen it first hand, and it's gnarly.
Well, you can't really win with someone that is being actively indoctrinated by others.
Sadly you're still just one person.
As someone who shuts down bad when people are transphobic and trying to have an argument, I wish I wasn't as emotionally vulnerable but that's just who I am; I can't help that my body shakes like crazy the moment my anxiety kicks in, I've been seeing a doctor for years and I still haven't gotten help to the extent that it has stopped.. It's exhausting
Yo, ME TOO. I'm an animal rights activist and am trans, and even though I frequently speak out, I actually think I have anxiety! If I get in some heated disagreement where I feel like I lose control, say the wrong thing, or feel really challanged personally I have a crazy adrenaline response that takes HOURS to cool down. I'll shake, feel stressed, not know where to go, be irritable and jumpy. It has made me more and more averse to standing up. I am so scared of being wrong, saying something that misrepresents my own position and in turn something that actually hurts my causes. Even when I KNOW I'm factually and rationally right, I get this reaction.
I thought it would go away as I got used to debating and activism, but as I have accumulated more bad experiences, it has gotten worse. I REALLY want to get to the bottom of it and feel safe, secure and confident. If I could be even a FRACTION as calm and confident as Vaush.
@@fromeveryting29 Not everyone can do it for sure.
If you're set on activism, there might be activism that isn't so much street as it is papers or planning events. In social media terms, maybe video essays or shorts, something where you aren't live with it.
It's ok I once had a mental breakdown (I say that half jokingly) in the middle of my social studies class where I literally started shaking while explaining why that Ronald Reagan was the devil and the republicans want to kill all the gays.
Being oppressed doesn’t make you prepared to fight the oppressor. If that were the case, there would be no oppression. Emotional vulnerability is a good thing, it means you have an empathetic heart. Don’t let hatred take that gift away from you.
Much as i love my biological family, my family of friends and loved ones are just objectively better. Build a family and the community will follow.
My parents are South African Catholic portuguese who moved our whole family to Ireland (i hate it here) because my mom legitimately believed in the Tucker Carlson-spread Nazi conspiracy theory of white farmer genocide (debunked by vaush as 8/20 000 murders in a year). My dad also has half thought out post talk ideas of racial science.
My extended family is a bit better but some dinners with them are an any% speedrun to hating black people, selling timeshares and saying it was better back in the day. Their opinions on lgbt people are predictably not good. (though they are surprisingly boomer orange man bad "liberals")
I wanna transition really badly but im so fucking black-pilled on my parents so im iust waiting for my chance to leave them, witb respect to Vaush for making this video, i dont think it applies to me and hell no im not gonna risk it.
Yeah, it doesn't sound worth it. Back in the 70s I had many gay friends in high school and nobody even came out of the closet until they left home at 18. Every situation is unique but when you are living with your parents sometimes it pays to avoid unnecessary conflict - it's not easy to change people's minds. Sorry about your move, but if you are in the EU, you will have immense freedom to travel and live elsewhere, so that could be very positive looking forward. That must be a horrible shock though, geographically and culturally! Brrr
Do you hate Ireland because it’s Ireland or for other reasons? I want to know as an Irish myself. Also very sorry for your situation, hope you can get away soon.
but south africa would still be a shithole even if the murders weren't true
This whole thing about "be the calm, be emotionally neutral" is important for deradicalizing. It's important for blunting emotional reactionary thought, for calming the conversation and dragging it into the middle. But to push someone over to a left position does take a bit of passion.
I don't normally talk politics with people, but it's gotten to the point where a few of very close family members are so far gone that I can't be around them for more than an hour or so.
edit: im not trans or anything, but my heart goes out to the trans folks who have it way worse.
I'm not Trans but I have sex with a lot of Trans women, so I'm not cool with anti-trans laws!
I told my father I was going on a trip somewhere and he went into a Soros rant 🙄
@@richardarriaga6271 they go on these rants (at any given moment). if they're not totally misinformed and ignorant, then they're just the worst fear based rants. I just don't vibe with that energy, y'know?
I'm in the same situation... I just identify as asexual... but like i'm a passionate ally and get really insulted when my family starts attacking trans people, gay people, democratic/progressive politics... etc.
You have no obligations to your family no matter what. You didnt choose them, and they chose to drive you away.
What if you have nowhere to go though
@@victorstiles8946 homeless? ive done it. better than family
What if you don't want to lose out on claim to potential inheritance down the road?
@@hand13932 what do you do though? Wander around feeling bad about yourself? No one wants to hire/educate hobos. Once I tried walking outside and imagining telling my family I never wanted to see them again and I imagined what it was like to have no one. I collapsed on the ground just from the thought of it. I’m just pretending to share their hateful beliefs while watching my brother argue against them. Better than having no one and no one caring about how good of a person you are and just seeing a hobo.
Sure but it's often not that simple.
I actually suffered through this for years
I lived with a narcissistic family member and i made it my point to try and deradicalize her from right wing politics and republican rhetoric but I eventually had to realize I need to fight for myself and not try and fight for people who won't change
My dad is simular but more chaotic because he severely mentally ill bit he has the whole "since i have high IQ automatically means i can do whatever i want and say whatever, not matter how illogical it ends up being"
He litterally the person I learned Marxism from and now he thinks the Rothschild family are trans 500 trillionares
And hes mentally abusive to everyone around him
Its fucking sad and tbh I don't even know how to be around him
yep. my dad voted obama twice and watched cosmos when i was growing up and now he's rabidly maga and thinks the same thing. wish i had a better exit plan.
My 77-year-old aunt (who is lesbian) has been very out of touch with reality for a long time, simply because her partner of about 30 years is a narcissistic crackpot Trump supporter. She has outsourced all her thinking about politics and religion to this person. She is smart but intelligence isn't the same thing as courage. (So very many people with PhDs, doctors and dentists too, assured us that Trump would be a great and "innovative" leader!)
I see some of myself in her but it is just *too painful and hopeless* to make a goal of "saving her." I feel in the pit of my stomach, as it were, that she and her partner will basically self-destruct along with Trump himself. I agree, we have to fight for ourselves and not waste energy fighting for people who are too scared to change.
@@sawbonesquad4876 I get that lol
My dad litterally used to say shit like
"Aces and spades but no racists"(referring to his love for card games and stuff, u really don't fully know but its supposedadly a progressive message) and now he refers to black men as spades
Uts really wierd especially considering my father isn't exactly given the short straw in terms of intelligence and stuff
Kind amakes me get why some intellects are bigotef
its so hard to keep a level head with my family, because they purposefully say things that they know i disagree with because they WANT to start an argument. prime example happened yesterday.. i was seeing the cure with a few family members and we were talking about how cool it was that there were so many different kinds of people there. then my aunt just says “yeah but i havent seen any blacks. interestinggg” ,, LIKE WHAT DO I EVEN SAY TO THAT? 😭😭 we were also literally next to a black family as well smfh
In situations like that I would simply say nothing, and avoid giving them any attention or reaction. Just change subjects. As if to signal to them that what they said is absolutely absurd, embarrasing and unacceptable as topic of discussion.
I'm an animal rights activist, and people frequently deliberately mock and make light of animal suffering, to provoke a reaction from me. I usually just stare blankly at them, give them a moment to feel shame over what they said, and then move on the conversation as if they didn't just say that. It really makes people doubt themselves.
But I get that it can be quite different with close family who are around you for long and will not stop trying to bait "outrage" from you..
You should've gotten the black family into it and just to watch the massive embarrassment and devastation of her being shown to be a monster.
At that point I'd just make a point to squint at them in a way that suggests what they said was really weird. You know that one people do where they tilt their head a bit? Or just call it out as a strange thing to say, not so much saying they're wrong(whether they are or not), but questioning what made them say something that odd out loud.
The ones who do that kind of thing on purpose for the sake of causing a problem or for the sake of making you uncomfortable are generally the type of person that cannot be reasoned with ime. Politics of offense bs, because they don't seem to care at all.
@@Remedy462if someone says something bigoted about a bunch of people who are in the vicinity just trying to enjoy their night, pulling them into it seems needlessly cruel. If they wanted to interject, they could. Not everyone wants to engage bigots at every opportunity. I don't think uaing random people from marginalized groups to make a point is worth the possible distress it would cause them!
I want to make a powerpoint presentation to show to my parents especially to my mom of all the death threats and harassment I’ve gotten for being openly transgender, or even just having pronouns in my bio.
Do it. And if they try to downplay it, put it all on your mom and say how would she feel and her husband feel if the internet and people were doing that to her.
Im lucky enough to not have any crazy people close to me but have friends who have lunatics they see on a daily basis and cant argue with them
36:00 yes 1000%. I would immediately be calmed down and become interested and look at the study. All iv ever wanted is someone brave and self aware enough to have a honest conversation lol
I live in a very conservative town in the bible belt, I'm stuck in an echo chamber with views in opposition to it
You and me both
same but i live in a conservative country
November last year I moved into a sharehouse with someone who had some fairly right wing views. This is very much the way I've treated our political discussions and ive really sparked her interest in learning more about left leaning views and to be much more critical when taking in information from media and other sources. Still a work in progress but we have some really interesting and mature conversations on social issues lately
I have to admit - I AM a glutton for punishment.
One of the reason why asking someone to explain their casual racist remarks (for instance) gets them to clam up is that often people say things like that expecting communal approval, and when you're putting them in a position where you're A) clearly disapproving of what they said and B) putting them on the spot to explain it, it's automatically uncomfortable.
JESUS CHRIST
MOSH PIT
VAUSH PIT
WHY DID IT TAKE THIS LONG FOR ME TO FIGURE OUT
The point on appearing happy being progressive is so important. One thing I always try to harp on when I talk about people who are fascists is how all fascists live miserable, hate filled lives. It's incredibly rhetorically effective.
Yo exposure therapy is truly amazing. I was a massive right winger until one of my friends came out as non-binary. At first I was like “no, I refuse to call a singular person a plural pronoun just in principle 😡” but when I realized like “yo this is still the friend I’ve known for so long, they just smile when I call them “they” then suddenly my grammatical principles didn’t matter anymore. I realized they were just a person like me that just wanted to be happy and that changed everything for me
This is EXACTLY the thing I’ve learned to do after getting in arguments with so many people or even relationships for example.
Like outside of politics I had a friend who ghosted me all the time and instead of being all clingy and trying to maintain the friendship like I’d always do I was like “Alright we’re done” and left there. Because you gotta remember that people look back retrospectively and feel bad about stuff they did just as much as you and I do. You aren’t the only one who’s up at night thinking about that embarrassing thing you did or what you could’ve done or said better.
You gotta remember that sometimes and use that to your advantage even if they don’t come crawling back.
It’s really hard to not be mad/emotional when the people you argue with don’t understand that general consensus and policy affect you directly. It’s more that you’re mad that they won’t simply try to put themselves in your shoes. That’s how I’ve undone a lot of my preprogrammed negative beliefs just by thinking about how what you think affects the person it’s targeted at. Everyone is human and just trying to live their lives, it’s not your job to govern them.
They subconsciously avoid that.
Could imagine thinking the way they do with empathy as your main moral compass? No right?
The same goes for them. These people learned to reject empathy or to use it in a limited amount. Either as a defense mechanism to support their beliefs or because they simply never were taught to follow said empathy (or a mental illness).
So always assume empathy is off the table. Making them "unlock" said empathy is part of the unlearning process.
I have been saying this for years: most casual racism can be utterly defeated by employing the tactics of a toddler. If you keep asking "why" to make them clarify their point, it always, ALWAYS comes down to 2 options; either this thing is how it is because of external forces that can pretty easily be described as systemic oppression, or it's because there's something...genetic, at the root of why "those people" find themselves in that position. And we have a word for that thing - we call people who think that way racists.
idk if that would work
Again, these people do NOT care about being called racists. They take pride in it.
You'd need to make them think about why they feel that way. Lead them to do something that they subconsciously avoid.
@rompevuevitos222 I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure: a lot of people regurgitating casual racist or otherwise bigoted views straight up haven't really considered what those views actually imply.
It's like the 13/50 meme. If you don't like... think about *why* such a statistic might exist, then, in a vacuum, it's just a little factoid (inaccurate as it may be) that sure does seem to imply something about black people in the US.
But if you take the same strategy as a toddler would, asking why this or that thing is the way it is, you can slowly walk someone into the scenario I described above, without straight telling them "the thing you just said is racist, and I'll explain why that... hey, where are you going? I was explaining how you are racist!"
And yeah, if you're talking to a knowing hate peddler hiding his power level or whatever, then you may not change THEIR mind, but that same strategy will at least force them to say it out loud, and hey: if someone else is around to watch it happen, then all the better, yeah?
Most people, especially the racist ones, do NOT like being shown to be a racist, which is why they get so defensive when you straight up call them out on it. That's why I like the toddler strategy: it makes THEM call themselves out on it for you. Or, in my experience, the more likely outcome is to stop short of owning those bigoted views and just like...clam up when they see that conclusion on the horizon.
Either way, you've stunted on a person with crummy opinions by making them explain why they possess them, and not just throwing a word around, however apt, that essentially guarantees they're going to take offense at instead of examining why they hold such opinions to begin with.
Thank you for this, it will be helpful for myself and at least two other people I know in powerless situations.
If people want to know how to have prejudice reduction conversations there is specific training for that taking place by some activists. Developed by Dave Fleisher and implemented by at least 2 groups. Los Angeles Leadership LGBT LAB in California and SAVE DADE in Miami. I believe Dave has a TED talk about it. The technique has been tested with a control group and studied by (somebody I can't remember).
Even now they are going door to door every so often to have prejudice reduction conversations.
People with problematic positions are often polarized. It's much more instrumental for (shallow) identity than an argument. Also: polarized people impose a polarized frame on the interaction. They have a position and you are the opposite of that, which might have nothing to do with reality. They can hardly compute a centristy, neutral, objective, transcendent position you can take. It is forced into the imposed frame. When you notice this there is a lot of work to do.
I’ve always got good outcomes by simply responding with”k”
To racist or bigoted comments
Because it shows the absolute lowest amount of care about the comment but shows that no one cares or thinks it’s funny and no one thinks their smart and overall people just disagree and think it’s cringe as fuck.
"They don't hate you, they hate what you are."
I am what I am by a default equilibrium, so hating what I am means hating me.
Vaush purposely misread that, most homophobic people seem to be motivated by Christianity. The Christian stance is that sin is bad, and shouldn't be encouraged, but you aren't supposed to be too judgemental towards the sinner. If your family dislikes your actions they do not hate you, and you shouldn't cut each other off
@@metalmythology6282 thats the stupidest thing anyone has ever come up with
@@gibra-elwalker8022 I really hate disco, but that doesn't mean I hate everyone associated with disco.
They need an anchor to reality. Help them touch grass. Be present with them. Go golfing, go camping, go on a walk - be with them in environments where politics are irrelevant. Isolation will lead to rabbit holes especially when you get older. If the relationship is toxic, consider less contact. But try to reach out on a human level
Ooof. My friends husband is super right wing and she says she holds Republican "values" and when she was about to give birth she was like "I could get X sucked out of me right now if I wanted." I just try not to pay attention or engage with her when it comes to politics. She's also moving to Florida soon so...I imagine it will get worse.
I also calmed down a lot from getting too passionate about politics which basically devolved to virtue signaling and then I realized that that's not going to make people think differently or research on their own and it just made me look like and act like an insufferable person that I didn't want to be. So now I'm either like cool story bro or I disagree because xyz but it's fine if you disagree and we can keep talking about it but know that I am a leftist and that's where my points are coming from. (I'm also in a privileged position to be able to do this tho).
My husbands father is also a MAGA. Luckily no one in the family pays attention to him when it comes to politics but he is the type who watches only Fox and just yells at the tv. As much as I wish I could help him, I know he's not going to budge and he's been listening to right wing media for DECADES. Sometimes you just gotta leave people where they are.
X sucked out of me? What?
why are you friends with these people
I am living in the most rancid home situation at the moment, I'm closeted non-binary and queer, and over the last few years my already "crunchy" antii-vaxx mother has gone from regular, run of the mill conspiracy theorist to a hateful, transphobic, racist, ableist POS conservative, and part of RFK jr.'s core fundraising team. I am so glad to be moving out for college in a year, and have completely given up on having any sort of civil conversations with her or my (clone of JP) father.
Yikes. Just stay safe and hang in there. It gets better, and you’ll find sane happy people who love you for who you are.
Hey all, this video was loaded with great info, and very useful and relevant to me, so I took notes on it. I thought some of you might find use for a summary as well.
**Make them feel like they have to prove themself to you**
Don't be more invested in the conversation than they are, because it gives them power. Be casual. Acting consistently less interested in a conversation causes others to feel as if they have to defend their position.
**When people make casually bigoted remarks, ask them what they mean**
Very casual, just ask innocently ask them, "Well what do you mean by that?", supposedly this puts them in a bad position where they would have to explicate the prejudice in the remark they made were they to answer your question, so they often just shut down (shut up).
1 of 2 typical responses: Doubling down along the lines of "Ah haha well what did I mean by that aren't we just joking around"
or backtracking and apologising.
Maybe wait before commenting on someone's comment, for example with "ahh nah i didn't really like that" retrospectively. Key idea: react with "I'm not mad, just disappointed" sentiment.
**Whatever image they have of someone who holds your political beliefs, be the opposite of that**
>Example: 'Big Red', the red-haired SJW feminist, is seen as preachy, unhappy, unintelligent, loud and overly invasive.
Act as if you are happy, disinterested and that you have your life in order, and others will be more willing to associate with you, will have less angles of attack (=stereotypes) and will have less authority over you. Make it so others know you are joyful, and be the "calm in the storm".
**Don't bring evidence to the conversation**
At least unprompted. People are not prepared for or expecting a data-heavy conversation, and they will shut down or become defensive.
**Understand the origin of the other person's position**
>Example: Transphobia/Homophobia typically come from disgust or internal self-repression on their part.
People will adopt rational or pseudo-rational positions *after* already having a position from intuition in order to justify it to themselves (but will not recognise that fact).
**Expose them to the things they hate**
Negative emotional responses to certain things/people can be combated effectively through exposure to those things/people.
When people spend time with those they are bigoted towards and have mutual or positive experiences with them, it very often becomes trivial and nonsensical to maintain those bigoted positions.
! - Do this at your own risk. Don't put yourself in danger by exposing those to you who may hurt you in one way or another.
Prove them wrong by interacting with them in a way that is not about debate or confrontation.
*I would add:*
**Use common, colloquial language**
Leftists especially have a problem of using terms that are alienating to those outside of their bubble. Words like 'Patriarchy,' 'Gender', 'Bourgeoisie' imply to many people that there is some sort of nebulous centralised entity or conspiracy, whereas in reality they are words useful for describing general mechanisms in society (interpersonal discrimination, how we see and treat people as individuals, ownership), which people can far more easily understand. Instead of alluding to lofty terms like these, argue for and describe concepts in a way that is relatable to and more easily understood by the other person.
>Example: If you are trying to prove that society is divided along class lines, don't talk about Bourgeoisie and Proletariat, as that implies to many that there is some sort of grand conspiracy, an idea which people will be immediately resistant to as it isn't in line with what they already know. Instead, point to more mundane examples of people struggling to get by, how companies exploit people, lobbying, wages etc. to introduce them to class.
A friend of mines been going down the weird reactionary gay/trans “agenda” pipeline. Ive been like “why do you care?” “How many times has this personally affected you?” “How many trans people do you actually know?”. Its strange because he can also compartmentalize that he loves and respects his gay coworker, but he also thinks anything pride related in public is an “agenda”z
I have a friend that had a moment like this. But it was mostly about those of Disney's poor attempts at "representation".
Just got outed as trans to my family, so I hope this kinda helps, lol 😅
good luck
The reason why bigots in particular are obsessed with the concept that being "cancelled" is such a bad immoral thing is because it is constantly a threat to their bigoted beliefs. There has never been another time in history where casual beliefs of bigotry can be so easily exposed with the thing in your pocket. And that terrifies them.
I honestly don't think people being antagonized for beliefs is a good thing, this isn't turning center right people tolerant, it usually just makes them far right. Our system is arguably worse now
@@metalmythology6282 erm.... The Nazis ring a bell.... SDP appeasement was a thing...
@@lonelyone69 We aren't talking about them, we are talking about average right wing people. Making them feel victimized is what creates the people you fear
@@metalmythology6282 there isn't a thing called regular right wing as we saw with trump they don't care how far right it goes as long as they're a populist... Reminds me of someone from 1929 😉
@@lonelyone69 Yeah you gotta stop watching left tube, my god. If you really think current right wingers are even in the same ballpark as those people you need a lobotomy
11:30 This is not too dissimilar from the "grey rock" technique that people typically use to combat narcissists. Show no emotion or interest to the narc and it will absolutely kill them that you're not playing into their hands the way they want.
What gets me is I have someone grey rocking me right now, and I am not a narcissist. I just laugh. They don't see that they are the gas lighter. They are the narcissist,not me. I let them keep going because they are so brainwashed. It's not worth my time.
@@jerrimenard3092 I can't tell if you're fucking with me or not but if it's a bit A+ work.
I'm pushing 50 now. I came out as gay in 2003 when I was 25. My father has a history of hateful behaviour towards his children. I am honestly of the opinion he would have kicked me out of the house if I came out in in my late teens when I knew I was different.
The beginning about people not wanting to be convinced resonated strongly with me. Just yesterday I was talking with my father and he said the usual "I don't mind transgenders or whatever you call *it*, I just don't want to have it shoved down my face"
I asked him to define what determines if something is shoved in his face, because there are plenty of things we see on a daily basis. He replied "Visibility. If I can see it."
I said "Okay, how do you feel about billboards? Are you against those? I've never heard you complain about them."
He sighed and asked to change the subject because I "wasn't listening" to him.
Like...what can I even do about that, lol.
Keep it up, sounds like you've got a good start!
My general response to bigoted comments like that are along the lines of "straight people get shoved in our faces all the time. That's all I ever saw growing up. I rarely if ever saw anyone like me. Why doesn't that bother you?" It's never worked on them for me, though, because they see that as "normal" and therefore "good", but there's only so much you can say in response and I'm just so tired and bitter at this point. I don't know how some can keep combatting it the way they do, it's so exhausting and often painful, but respect.
I think you lost him the moment you changed from single questions and got more intense.
A more subtle approach (that wouldn't put him in the defensive) would be to simply ask "So, like a billboard or an ad?"
THEN you can bring up that there's ads about straight couples everywhere.
But again, don't get emotional, remain calm.
Listen and listen good. IF YOU ARE LGBTQ+ OR EVEN IF PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE, GET A GUN, GET TRAINED, GET YOUR LICENSE TO CARRY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY CARRY IT.
Depends on where you live
This is also a good idea for allies. A queer ally is almost as bad for some people.
@@Alloverthecarpet1 agreed.
*Caveat: Not recommended for the chronically suicidal
@@MsScarletwings fair enough
Rule 0: the more emotional you are, the less seriously you are taken.
Well, that rule quickly breaks at the example of Jordan Peterson. Passion can be very persuasive, but yes, most often the person who exudes more confidence, either through emotional passion or calm referencing of facts looks more convincing and are taken more seriously. Confidence is key, which is kind of bad, because many non-confident people are actually the ones who are right and should be confident, while clueless and dishonest people look confident.. :(
Credibility is something that we somehow subconsciously associate with lack of emotion. A fundamentally flawed mentality, yet it's the first thing our brain opts to for some reason.
@@fromeveryting29
We'll see who cancels who you sons of bitches. You can't cancel Canadian Kermit The Frog eh!
@@manolgeorgiev9664passion looks like it clouds the mind i guess
@@MurphWithoutTheYmost of right wing talking heads are extremely emotional when they're talking. The emotion is just anger.
This video is incredible. You did really good on this one
I use evidence to try to convince people because that's what convinces me. I live my life obsessively trying to be as introspective as possible, engaging in logical discussions with everyone who disagrees with me so they can prove me wrong. I try to get myself proven wrong, if someone gave me evidence during a passionate argument about why I shouldn't do a thing, I'd consider it depending on how credible the evidence is. I reflexively try to avoid being stuck in my ways because to do so would be to trap myself in an echo chamber of my own mind where I can never truly know if I'm correct because I haven't taken in the opposing evidence.
Right wingers don't believe in evidence.
I mostly relate to this but trust me, most people don't do this
@@jaceking5938 I lived my entire life thinking that was just how people are because of the whole "facts over feelings" meme and so I was always confused when people (mainly science teachers, I had one that thought the moon was hollow and that climate change was fake) wouldn't have their minds changed or even altered whenever I cited 43 credible sources over email.
I'm very autistic
@@crypt5129 the Moon being hollow is an opinion I've never heard before
@@BigSteve9713 He says it's an alien spaceship on the inside and that the aliens are watching us through powerful telescopes because in one very specific picture taken from really far away, the craters look *about* the same depth. He also cited a NASA article about the moon ringing like a bell, read the article and it said the reason it did that was because it was more solid than the earth, so literally the opposite of what he said
Fairly certain he also believes in the jewish question, what a shocker
Yeah, this feels pretty on-point. I always get too invested and I try to bring up actual facts and prod people for questions and stuff, calling out what they're doing, and it's like... they don't care. It doesn't matter how many good jokes or zingers I work in, they're not going to read that shit. I need to get them on my side by being more apathetic or skeptical of their side first, and then move into the heavier stuff afterwards. Like give proof if they start talking about it, you know? Otherwise, I'm just wasting time and effort on nothing.
Exactly! They're not going to read *anything* about climate change; they will have to move to a high-rise beachfront condo in Florida themselves and die suddenly when the soil liquefies underneath it. That's the only sort of "education" they understand.
Honestly, I just don't associate with my more conservative relatives. Thankfully my parents are libs.
Thanks for videos like this. I'm a lefty in a deep red Ohio county, and the political discourse has gone so far downhill I've essentially closed myself off. And I know that's not the right way to be, so I'm trying to clean up my discourse skills as well as sharpen my knowledge.
If an uncle said something inappropriate… I'd make a beeline to his kids.
I'd explain to them WHY he said those things.
WHY they are wrong.
HOW it is unbelievable that people who are responsible for their position have the nerve to criticize anybody on earth… after living off of the demise of others & laughing about it at parties!
Litterally just had a fight with my dad and he just kept yelling that I was part of the machine, I just want to atleast make it uncomfortable to bring up his dumbass takes in front of me
This is a great video. I needed this right now; thank you.
Wonderful video. Thank you
This is what I've continued to tell people in relation to these discussions- a person is more likely to double-down on their beliefs and shutdown if you're yelling at them. It's the same in both directions. I feel a lot of people these days don't understand what is needed to be diplomatic and how important diplomacy is to get your point across, especially the tact and patience of doing so. There's a saying where I'm from: "You get more flies with sugar than with vineagar." Be willing to listen. Be willing to try to understand what led the person to the thoughts that they have. You can't have peace when throwing hate and festering fear.
The Yoda quote is essential for us to remember:
"“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
I am such a carefully crafted two-faced bitch with my family. I say the most mild middle of the road things when contentious topics come up to protect myself and built my boundaries just so I can walk away when necessary. It's really helpful to avoid issues since I live with them... Your personal safety comes first! Nothing I say will convince them. It is isolating but I do try to be the one sane person for another family member who's also going through similar shit.
Depending on your situation do what you gotta do to be able to get out sane enough to function.
I feel falling insleep, so I come t before I forget. But it also important to realise that changing an opinion take some time. In my case it always happens after the conversation. It like some paths had to be changed in my head. And then some days later I suddenly seems to have change mind. And I agree it’s the other person. I’m 70, and sometimes you need an update on my age. 😊
Blessed be the Vaush king🙏🙏🙏 thank you for this wisdom❤
Any advice on how to deal with a father who is a biblical traditionalist in the most extreme sense? Highly patriarchal (he considers this a good thing) view of family structure. Considers LGBT to be sin in the extreme.
Do you think he could become violent if provoked with probing questions? If yes, be safe, don't risk your health
Target people around him in his life? If he keeps losing other friends/family to the side of human decency he will either be cowed or be bitter.
have you tried setting up a "Home Alone"-style trap that ends with him getting comically conked on the head by a coconut or something? that might actually change his mind
@@FirstnameLastname-ju7em I am currently doing this. Fortunately for my health he lives on the other side of the country from me (sometimes the other side of the world). I have come out to him already, and have successfully obtained most/all of his family through his mother's side (my grandmothers). His fathers side is pretty disconnected from us anyway (after his parents' divorce there was never a lot of contact).
@@hardlyworking_ LOL, no, it would require placing myself in close proximity to him, and would most likely just annoy him, causing him to attack me.
Despite basicly my entire imediate family being cool leftists, my dad is a socialist and mostly understands queer issues, somehow my younger brother (13) has fallen down the alt right pipeline. Hes specificly hung up on being a christain, despite my parents being atheist and not introducing anything like that to us when we were younger. Its a very tough situation, he fights with us, mainly my mom, constantly. You can tell this mindset isnt doing him well because he talks about emotions not mattering, and despite previous interest in things like princesses he now insists gay people sin and men need to be masuline and whatnot. Once he even started crying while insisting being gay is bad. I have a horrible feeling that he might be queer but hates himself. It feels like theres no hope in convincing him, hes always been hard to get through to. we try our best though, with conversation, being visibly accepting, and subtly pushing positive influences on him. It just feels so hopeless, this video has helped me think through my interactions with him though.
This is a child, he isn't getting his ideas out of thin air. It could be political (or other type) grooming online, bullying in school, his friend circle all being from conservative families, an adult man being weird, etc. You and your parents should look into reasons why not leave the kid alone. He's clearly going through something violent. Imo bullying is the most likely case.
My brother has strong connections with the oath keepers even though he doesn’t care about their ideology, he is fine with them. He doesn’t want people to know about his connection with oath keepers because other people will be afraid of him and his family as he hates rejections, especially how his wife has told him to shut up about their connections with the oath keepers after he has been bragging about it to other people. He was able to connect one of my cousins and her family to the oath keepers.
He's going to end up on a federal law enforcement watch list. Oath Keepers are probably 50% criminal informants at this point. The entire militia movement is a farce, honestly. I can't believe they managed to pull off as much as they did in that insurrection. It's not the same thing it was in the 1990s. The militia movement in those days was scary af. Their leader is a one-eyed willy guy who literally shot his own eye out because he couldn't practice proper muzzle discipline.
I'd tell him to take a hard look at what they actually believe, and ask himself if they're the kind of people he wants to be around.
@@bongodave13Compounding on this, maybe ask them why other people would be afraid of him if word got out.
Invite him to examine it from the perspective of something like *"What if I had ties to an Antifa cell"* or insert whatever terrorist adjacent group into the mix.
You can always threaten to bring it up at a family gathering if he doesn't break ties with them.
Like go up to him at Christmas and tell him that he has to go outside and make some calls for a few minutes or you're going to dump it out in front of everyone and the stupid club that he's in is going to ruin the holidays for everyone and tear your family apart.
@@StomachPlug my family was proud of his connection while at the same time denying it. The same about my cousin’s too how they backpedal their arguments.
@@skybite Aha, so basically that's just to save face in public.
I see. Cute.
I keep wondering why these really useful vids end up on the second channel
This is really hard to deal with when you have black Conservativism running rampant and unchecked in family and friend groups.
Please clean the white stuff off your mic.
Hard agree.
I mean I agree but if I were that mic, I would also cum constantly from having Vaush speak into me every day. Have some perspective
He can't, its the Jakubian energy leaving his body after voting for Joe Biden
Cum flakes
🐎💦
I haven't finished this yet so maybe he said this already, but for cishet white allies, it's important to not get personally offended on behalf of others. We have the advantage of engaging with a modicum of personal distance from these situations, and would be wise to bear this in mind.
There was a time when I was genuinely an extremely bigoted person. It was the classics of homophobia and transphobia and casual racism. The way that I started to get out of it was actually the exposure method that Vaush was talking about. However, I've noticed that me getting pulled out wasn't from making friends with gay people or trans people or more black students moving to our school when the area for those allowed to attend was expanded, no it was none of those. It was when I was in the CallMeCarson discord server and I joined a furry server in order to raid it and harass the furries and then one of them said something that piqued my interest. After that, I actually stayed in that and just lurked there. I read everything that was said and looked at all of the art. I joined some voice chats and listened to some of these peoples' stories and jokes. When I eventually left the server after a very long period of inactivity on discord, I started to look into other avenues of what was out there. I got really into online art culture, I joined the Steven Universe fandom, I watched tons of Undertale content, I even stayed active in the Slimecicle discord until it eventually shutdown and met some of my closest friends there that I still hang out with till this day. I started out as a bigoted little white boy that knew nothing outside of his little southern town, and I've ended up as a confident, wise young woman with amazing friends and a world of opportunity ahead of me. There is no way I can express how much I don't want things to end with my parents in the way that they look like they're going to, and this video gives me hope that I can maybe, just maybe, push the relationship that have with my parents into the right direction. Thank you for more wisdom my friend, it means the world.
This is incredible, thank you for this.
How about religious people? Lost cause? I have a group of friends that are otherwise quite liberal but their book says no to LGBTQ+. I get a lot of "it's fine but I don't want them around my kids, and why do they have to shove it down our throats?" (they think it's a social contagion, and it's bad because their god says so).
I try to hit back with "yes but also there's a lot of shit in that book that we don't follow anymore like women being property, slavery, killing disbelievers, etc" and that they're just normal people trying to exist. (I'm a cishet man btw)
Religion is based on not believing in science and believing in the Bible instead, so there’s really no way to argue with them if they’re dead set on those views unfortunately.
I implore you to read the bible, it does not encourage any of what you have listed
50:51 - This is called the 'Mere-exposure' effect or the familiarity principle. Basically, we like things more if we are more familiar with them. It's kind of like exposure therapy for bigots, the more time they spend around the things they hate (say black people) and not end up hating them (because they bonded over a sports team they both like), the less they hate those things.
Edit: lmao, hits pause button, Vaush basically says what I typed straight after
I feel like it’s harder when you’re not out and they say so much vitriol
Definitely. That anxiety of outing yourself can make it hard to go about it without walking on eggshells
I was raised christian and conservative, I’d watch Fox with my parents every night and sometimes Fox and friends in the morning. I had a couple of queer friends but I often ignored that part of them or distanced myself from them after finding out. A friend I’ve known since 1st grade (she was bi but I didn’t know) had a surprise for me after school. She tricked me into going to our high school’s GSA. I had to listen to a bunch of queer people tell their stories for an hour and that changed me lol. Now I am engaged to a woman and a leftist lmao. I felt really vulnerable and uncomfortable in that situation, but everyone there talked about how they felt and how it’s hard that their friends and family don’t accept them and I’m like, shit that’s me.. it was a wake up call too that I had a bunch of friends in that club that I didn’t know were queer.
The timing of this video coming out is crazy. Divine intervention levels.
I had a very eye opening conversation with my dad yesterday and have been trying to figure out if I should confront him for his far right beliefs or not and, if I chose to confront him, how to approach it.
Regardless of his beliefs you should probably respect him and let him figure his life out. Honestly though I really doubt he's far right, far left brainrot from you probably
@@metalmythology6282typical right wing thought process based on self induced vibes. Just because your dad never valued your input doesn't mean everybody else's don't.
If I could give this video 2 likes I would. Really well said.
Ok i have a story to tell, i was at my sister's house and helping her with the kids and my dad was there and i mentioned the strange tradition (or something) of people that usually live in cold places do, its the "hot sauna and cold plunge" i think it was referred as, and as soon as I mentioned that thing that people do just because it came out of my mouth im wrong or get made fun of because i know something that no one else knows about, heres another one did you know the hawaiian name for a reef triggerfish, it's called a "humuhumunukunukuapua'a" my sister certainly didn't and for the Proseeding day i was made fun of for knowing that thing.
I'm one of those people who was thrown out because of me being me, this was very helpful. Thank you Vaush❤.
I’m Puerto Rican born and raised in New York and when I try to not act stereotypical my family and friends tell me I’m trying to be white 🤣 can’t win
my gf is a convert to Judaism & she comes from a family of Evangelical Christians in the American South. they are almost always making comments about it whether it’s refusing to use her chosen name (very similar to deadnaming a trans person) or making general antisemitic comments. it often exhausts her to deal with it, so what i do is ask them what they meant by it. i do it after the fact, & *always* 1 on 1 so when they ask me why i’m bringing it up now, i can say i didn’t want to start at argument in front of everybody. i feel this part is key. then, because they ultimately do care about their daughter/cousin/niece/etc they will be much more inclined to listen. if your going to do this on someone else’s behalf, always get that person’s permission first. but i feel like it’s a great way to help out a loved one or a friend.
In January I retired from a job where I was surrounded by mostly MAGA people. Some of them are still my friends. For awhile I tried to confront them about things they were saying- especially stuff that’s easily debunked. When I pointed out that something that was untrue they would say “well it’s still funny.” I saw it as a lost cause and I pretty much just avoided political conversation with most of them
how can you be friends with people with entirely different set of core values
@ yeah it’s getting harder. I’ve let some of them go.
I posit that disgust *IS* a fear-based response. We have so many words to nuance emotions and color them with context, but at the end of the day we have two types of emotions: those that encourage/reward behavior, and those that dissuade/punish it. From a pure utility perspective, "disgust" and "fear" serve the same use: stay away from / don't allow that thing.
I think this is useful framing because we can get past trying to identify emotion and understand simply that people have aversions to things. I would lump all negative emotions into that of fear, as fear is the English word we most easily associate with one's automatic response (fight or flight). I think fear comes primarily from a single source: the loss of control. When our organism feels that it can no longer accurate predict outcomes and/or does not have the power to shape the environment into our expectations, we feel really bad. This response manifests itself as anxiety, which is then expressed through whichever emotions our hardwiring / experience determines is most likely to get us to avoid the stimuli.
When someone is reacting to something with negative emotion, the question we can ask ourselves is "What does this person feel like they're losing control of?"
For instance, homophobia might be a result of someone's religious beliefs. The same religious beliefs that say homosexuality is bad come from the same sources that give the person a sense of purpose and meaning and quells their existential dread. Accepting that their religious texts and/or upbringing is not be an accurate model of their life is part and parcel to accepting homosexuality. If this is the case, any lack of control they have in their existence as a human is no longer guaranteed to be the plan of an all benevolent god who ensures they'll live in eternal grace at the end. That's a very strong force to contend with. Unless they adopt a new belief system, the best you can likely get is for them to carve out exceptions.
Another example with homophobia could be someone's fear that someone of the other gender could take a potential mate. Just as the black man that will take all the white women with his BBC, this can be seen as an insurmountable threat by the insecure. The idea of such a situation gives the feeling of a lack of control and therefore a fear response.
this is perfect for dealing with my sisters insufferable boyfriend. thanks voosh!
Can confirm this rhetoric works
Source: Me, who used to make unfunny attack helicopter jokes until someone who was working backstage with me in theater asked why I thought it was funny
Obviously it took some time for me to come around but I'm glad I did b/c I'd rather accept my brother for the man he is now instead of being stuck in that whole reactionary mindset
9:33 there was this one server I was in with friends, and one of them was making some very uncomfortable racist jokes. I left without really saying anything. In the end, the friend came to me for the conversation, and they eventually apologized and stopped making the racist jokes. I doubt I would have had the same effect if I was preachy to them in the server