I've found myself writing a story (at least trying to) for almost 10 months now, besides being really far from the end your videos really help me to develop the "writer" in me and I pretty sure others feel the same. We need great content like these. Thanks.
I am not so sure about the claim that every story has to have these elements. Not just because I think the Hero's Journey is as universal as you make it out, but even in tales of heroes there are some that do not really have that. Thus it feels a little bit like you engaged in a selection bias there, since there are plenty of stories that work well without it, I mean just turn into any sitcom on TV, and even episodes that have drastic character changes do ot necessarily have a darkest hour. Don't get me wrong, this is a powerful tool in the writer's toolbox, but it is not a mandatory one.
I edited my earlier idea to make it more effective. Which Comes First, the Plot or the Story? Sounds silly, but many story formulas say a darkest part should be a bit before the end when all the hero’s efforts have been in vain and nearly all hope is gone. The hero then risks everything, and wins, becoming changed forever. The character change and the event can be separate or simultaneous. This creates a powerful story. Let’s look at 3 films. In It's a Wonderful Life (1946), Jimmy Stewart is always a good; he only lacks perspective. The nadir comes when he wishes to have never been born and gets to see the world without him. This fixes the problem, which was only his perspective. Here the formula works. In Highlander (1986), Christopher Lambert is an innocent and the film traces his education. The nadir comes when he must overcome the man who killed his teacher. Here, again, the formula works because the hard work was done during the course of the film and the nadir is simply his graduation. In Pay It Forward (2000), Helen Hunt has insurmountable social problems, but her son believes in her, and in humanity in general. The nadir comes when her son’s death in helping someone else allows Hunt to see the light. Here the formula seems to work, to give the audience a high, but a little thought shows that Hunt’s lack of skills will soon derail her new life. Thus, the nadir needs to occur in a different place for the story to really work. Obviously, this has material consequences. The first is shown annually at Christmas, the second has a cult following, and the third has disappeared. Can it be done successfully in another way? In the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the nadir is Gandalf’s death. The Elven superheroes refuse to leave their lands, Saruman, the other wizard superhero, has gone over to the dark side, Sauron, the evil superhero, is getting stronger by the day, and the greatest human, Aragorn, is only a man. Gandalf returns, but until Helm’s Deep, we don’t see his powers. Yes, Aragorn risks his life at the gates of Mordor, but Frodo is at Mt Doom. In a final twist, Frodo goes over to the dark side, but it is momentary, and nowhere near as powerful as ‘You shall not PASS.’ But this is just entertainment; it has no effect on our lives. A common romantic trope is enemies falling in love, e.g., Overboard (1987) with Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. The film seems to work because they come to see each other’s positive qualities. People do try to imitate this in real life. Can it be done? Definitely, but Overboard skips the question because the couple lives a life of luxury on her money while avoiding the bureaucracy that he hates. To really succeed, either she needs to learn to love living without money while knowing that she could choose to live differently or he needs to start wearing a suit to work. But to tell that story, the nadir would have to come earlier so that we see that adjustment. And that is why the plot formula must fit the story the author wants to tell.
Some movies like bttf don’t have much change for character tho of course with time travel, things do change in terms of story, not everything has to change but change is pretty much the one thing you need for at least something
Here's my notes. They are written for me, so you probably won't find them that interesting. General: The lowest point of the character arc is also the point of greatest change. Surprises: Jamie Lannister, as mentioned, and Gavin Guile, as came to my mind, both are revealed to themselves by the stripping away of what made them successful. Without our usual crutches, we must ask who we are beyond our skills; no longer asking who we are professionally, but who we are ethically. A word I thought of concerning the crisis point is "zugzwang" a German word that, if I understand it rightly, is a situation in which one is forced to make a choice even though there may not be any good choices to choose. Disagreement: It's not that the lowest point is the most transformative inwardly, rather it reveals the change the author has made over the course of the story. It is the crisis, which comes from the Greek word meaning choice, judgment, or decision. (This was discussed later in the video; I just emphasize it more in my own thinking) It seems to me that the crisis point has to be at the end. I suppose it could be placed in the page count wherever, but it is the end of the character arc because it is the point at which the transformation is revealed. That said, I've considered a story whose first act is a mini character arc and the rest of the story is a static character arc story, a test of the untransforming worldview of the main character.
Highlighting a word in the video description, in the comments or in the transcript and hitting control + a will highlight all of these elements that are showing, allowing them to be copied pasted into a Word doc. Yes, there is objectively a lowest point in the story's timeline, but that is no reason why each low point cannot subjectively feel like the lowest point in the story, until the reader encounters something worse. Back in the 19th century some authors overdid this point. The thing is, you can have a clearly defined goal, like destroy the Ring, and it is clear that that is the climax of the story, except it is only for Frodo. Everyone else had their lowest point elsewhere. But if the reader understands change must occur, but does not know what change, every change can seem like the ultimate one, except that the book has 1000 more pages. But the evil character has started performing charity. What could go wrong? Interesting. Could one write a story where the lowest point for the reader is not the lowest point for any of the characters? For example, the main characters are partying, which the reader can see is starting a revolution amongst the nameless minions, which results in the inescapable end of the main characters. The catharsis would be for the reader and the main characters might be oblivious and indifferent to their fate. Change has occurred at the pinnacle of their lives, not the lowest part. The Short, Happy Life of King Harold. Me, I'd probably sleep through it. 22:07 'these stories resonate deeply because they reflect Universal emotional truths.' Actually, from what I am hearing in philosophical circles, there are no universal truths. For example, if you see this life as everything, then keeping this life is the greatest value. But if you believe in eternal rewards in the next life, then the sooner this one ends, the better. Today we respect the rights of animals, but in the past, they could be sacrificed on an altar. So, for some people, live long and prosper resonates, for others die young and honourably. I tried to write an outline of how to understand and apply the information here, but I gave up at the Caveat. I'll leave it for you.
Very, very professionally done. Nice voicing and nice description with all the references added in. Congratulations. You know I can't avoid the negative. 1. It is a long, complicated message. The transcript cannot be copy-pasted as far as I know. Thus a viewer has to take notes in order to reference whatever key points interest him. Chapters are not enough here. I would say a bullet outline of the key points would be useful here for viewers. By key points, I mean precise things an author must keep in mind when editing a text, like things to strengthen the nadir, and brighten the dawn. 2. I agree that without change there is no story, and that that change need not be a character arc; it could be solving a puzzle or removing an obstacle. The same rules apply that a nadir increases the tension. But you skimmed over its placement elsewhere than around the end of act II. The problem is that building the story around a nadir at that point is putting the cart before the horse. For example, a story where the nadir is at the very beginning tells about the long path of redemption. This would be a better format for something like depression or brainwashing, which takes years to recover from. Thus, an author should first determine what their message is and then what arrangement of the elements best amplify that message. Take 'It's a Wonderful Life' with Jimmy Stewart. There it works because the protagonist has all the skills needed for success, he is only lacking a clarity of vision. In Highlander, Duncan McCloud acquires the skills over the course of the film and he only needs the motivation. Tolkien is far more complex and the nadir at the gates of Mordor is just a technicality; the character arcs are separate, except perhaps Frodo's. One rewatches It's a Wonderful Life for the catharsis, but rereads Tolkien for greater enjoyment of the writing. But many stories expect the protagonist or main character to change fundamentally at the nadir. Jimmy Stewart was a good person the entire film; he just needed to understand that others appreciated that goodness. An evil character who sees the light at the nadir and becomes a good person overnight, how does that work? How does he or she know how to be good? Does a nadir around the end of act II work for that story?
Thank you so much for the comment! I'm not sure what the deal is with the transcript... It might take a bit to render, but nowadays the transcript gets auto-generated pretty cleanly. If it doesn't work, I will check back to see if I can change anything. Good example of change as well!
@@wrestlingwithwords Sorry to not be clear. If I have a text on my computer or printed, I can highlight things I want to remember and add comments. As far as I know, that autogenerated transcript cannot be copy-pasted into a Word document. It did a good job of autogenerating this time, so it is easy to read.
I did succeed in copying a transcript from a shorter video. It copied the whole page and then ignored the videos, which took a while for Word to do. So, it is possible to copy the transcript into an MS Word document. That means the text becomes searchable, esp. for good quality transcripts, and takes up very little space.
To copy it, first get RUclips to show the transcript. Then mark a small bit using the cursor. Then click control + a to highlight everything on the page. Then control + c to copy it. And control + v to paste it in a Word document. And wait a while.
De dechets et du sang... ...brulant... ...tus.... Of offal and of the blood... ...burning... ...still.... it is free with kindle unlimited it is a collection of English/French poems and short stories hope you like something if you read Here is one of the poems it is a poetic interpretation of head of a dead young man painting by theodore gericault Head of a dead young man Beneath a canvas coarse and crass, the head of a young man upon a cushion soft and of care; feminine chin; upon the lower lip the blood of God; fine nose; hair of an infant here...and...down there; upon his front, the sublime illumination, that descends intimately as though of ivory flame.... ...when, of lavender and of rose, ascending vaguely towards the exegetic darkness, the offal; disclosed thus, profound and grave, an immense lesion, as though of a dolourous ulcer...from where all comes...where all returns....
imo it's not saying "it's ok to be evil" it's more "everyone makes mistakes and if someone genuinely changes they shouldn't be bound to their past actions"
A character arc is just the narrative path of change a character has gone through. It's the experience of a character-usually the internal journey. It could be the process of a character going from "bad" to "good," illustrating a redemption arc. But it can also be something like "not believing in true love" to "believing in true love." It should relate to or reflect the theme(s) of the story. Thank you for your perspective and for watching.
It is not okay to be evil, hense the need for change. The argument that once something is anything but pure, that it is forever tainted and must be rejected and hated forever, is arguably evil in itself.
The first 500 people to use my link skl.sh/wrestlingwithwords12241 will get a 1-month free trial of Skillshare!
I've found myself writing a story (at least trying to) for almost 10 months now, besides being really far from the end your videos really help me to develop the "writer" in me and I pretty sure others feel the same. We need great content like these. Thanks.
I really appreciate this comment. Keep writing, and keep at it. Thank you for watching and thank you for sharing!
You’re doing great and I hope your channel grows! Every video of yours is insightful, detailed, and very well put together.
Thank you for the kind words! I appreciate the support!
Wow. Just wow!!! Loved the depth and impact this topic is having when I write now. Watched this 6 times and still learn something new.
Thank you for watching!
I have never known so many nonchalant spoilers in one video lol but great message on the importance of change
I love a flat character arc where the world changes
I am with you there. There is a special place in my heart for writing flat arcs.
Thank you for the helpful video! So many great examples. I never realized how common the lowest moment was…
Yes! Very common. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Have you seen Arcane? Its character arcs and world building, music, and art direction are simply magical.
Wow, what a fascinating topic. I’m gonna have to listen to this two or three times.
Thank you for watching!
I am not so sure about the claim that every story has to have these elements. Not just because I think the Hero's Journey is as universal as you make it out, but even in tales of heroes there are some that do not really have that. Thus it feels a little bit like you engaged in a selection bias there, since there are plenty of stories that work well without it, I mean just turn into any sitcom on TV, and even episodes that have drastic character changes do ot necessarily have a darkest hour. Don't get me wrong, this is a powerful tool in the writer's toolbox, but it is not a mandatory one.
I wrote my comment just before your caveat section came along in the video.
No problem! I appreciate your thoughts and common regardless! Thank you for sticking around to that part :).
I edited my earlier idea to make it more effective.
Which Comes First, the Plot or the Story?
Sounds silly, but many story formulas say a darkest part should be a bit before the end when all the hero’s efforts have been in vain and nearly all hope is gone. The hero then risks everything, and wins, becoming changed forever. The character change and the event can be separate or simultaneous. This creates a powerful story.
Let’s look at 3 films.
In It's a Wonderful Life (1946), Jimmy Stewart is always a good; he only lacks perspective. The nadir comes when he wishes to have never been born and gets to see the world without him. This fixes the problem, which was only his perspective. Here the formula works.
In Highlander (1986), Christopher Lambert is an innocent and the film traces his education. The nadir comes when he must overcome the man who killed his teacher. Here, again, the formula works because the hard work was done during the course of the film and the nadir is simply his graduation.
In Pay It Forward (2000), Helen Hunt has insurmountable social problems, but her son believes in her, and in humanity in general. The nadir comes when her son’s death in helping someone else allows Hunt to see the light. Here the formula seems to work, to give the audience a high, but a little thought shows that Hunt’s lack of skills will soon derail her new life. Thus, the nadir needs to occur in a different place for the story to really work.
Obviously, this has material consequences. The first is shown annually at Christmas, the second has a cult following, and the third has disappeared.
Can it be done successfully in another way? In the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the nadir is Gandalf’s death. The Elven superheroes refuse to leave their lands, Saruman, the other wizard superhero, has gone over to the dark side, Sauron, the evil superhero, is getting stronger by the day, and the greatest human, Aragorn, is only a man. Gandalf returns, but until Helm’s Deep, we don’t see his powers. Yes, Aragorn risks his life at the gates of Mordor, but Frodo is at Mt Doom. In a final twist, Frodo goes over to the dark side, but it is momentary, and nowhere near as powerful as ‘You shall not PASS.’
But this is just entertainment; it has no effect on our lives. A common romantic trope is enemies falling in love, e.g., Overboard (1987) with Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. The film seems to work because they come to see each other’s positive qualities. People do try to imitate this in real life. Can it be done? Definitely, but Overboard skips the question because the couple lives a life of luxury on her money while avoiding the bureaucracy that he hates. To really succeed, either she needs to learn to love living without money while knowing that she could choose to live differently or he needs to start wearing a suit to work. But to tell that story, the nadir would have to come earlier so that we see that adjustment.
And that is why the plot formula must fit the story the author wants to tell.
Many thanks for this!!! I’m so delighted I bumped into your Channel💝🖍️📓👣🗝️🧩💯
Some movies like bttf don’t have much change for character tho of course with time travel, things do change in terms of story, not everything has to change but change is pretty much the one thing you need for at least something
Here's my notes. They are written for me, so you probably won't find them that interesting.
General:
The lowest point of the character arc is also the point of greatest change.
Surprises:
Jamie Lannister, as mentioned, and Gavin Guile, as came to my mind, both are revealed to themselves by the stripping away of what made them successful. Without our usual crutches, we must ask who we are beyond our skills; no longer asking who we are professionally, but who we are ethically.
A word I thought of concerning the crisis point is "zugzwang" a German word that, if I understand it rightly, is a situation in which one is forced to make a choice even though there may not be any good choices to choose.
Disagreement:
It's not that the lowest point is the most transformative inwardly, rather it reveals the change the author has made over the course of the story. It is the crisis, which comes from the Greek word meaning choice, judgment, or decision. (This was discussed later in the video; I just emphasize it more in my own thinking)
It seems to me that the crisis point has to be at the end. I suppose it could be placed in the page count wherever, but it is the end of the character arc because it is the point at which the transformation is revealed. That said, I've considered a story whose first act is a mini character arc and the rest of the story is a static character arc story, a test of the untransforming worldview of the main character.
Highlighting a word in the video description, in the comments or in the transcript and hitting control + a will highlight all of these elements that are showing, allowing them to be copied pasted into a Word doc.
Yes, there is objectively a lowest point in the story's timeline, but that is no reason why each low point cannot subjectively feel like the lowest point in the story, until the reader encounters something worse. Back in the 19th century some authors overdid this point. The thing is, you can have a clearly defined goal, like destroy the Ring, and it is clear that that is the climax of the story, except it is only for Frodo. Everyone else had their lowest point elsewhere. But if the reader understands change must occur, but does not know what change, every change can seem like the ultimate one, except that the book has 1000 more pages. But the evil character has started performing charity. What could go wrong?
Interesting. Could one write a story where the lowest point for the reader is not the lowest point for any of the characters? For example, the main characters are partying, which the reader can see is starting a revolution amongst the nameless minions, which results in the inescapable end of the main characters. The catharsis would be for the reader and the main characters might be oblivious and indifferent to their fate. Change has occurred at the pinnacle of their lives, not the lowest part. The Short, Happy Life of King Harold. Me, I'd probably sleep through it.
22:07 'these stories resonate deeply because they reflect Universal emotional truths.' Actually, from what I am hearing in philosophical circles, there are no universal truths. For example, if you see this life as everything, then keeping this life is the greatest value. But if you believe in eternal rewards in the next life, then the sooner this one ends, the better. Today we respect the rights of animals, but in the past, they could be sacrificed on an altar. So, for some people, live long and prosper resonates, for others die young and honourably.
I tried to write an outline of how to understand and apply the information here, but I gave up at the Caveat. I'll leave it for you.
Very, very professionally done. Nice voicing and nice description with all the references added in. Congratulations.
You know I can't avoid the negative.
1. It is a long, complicated message. The transcript cannot be copy-pasted as far as I know. Thus a viewer has to take notes in order to reference whatever key points interest him. Chapters are not enough here. I would say a bullet outline of the key points would be useful here for viewers. By key points, I mean precise things an author must keep in mind when editing a text, like things to strengthen the nadir, and brighten the dawn.
2. I agree that without change there is no story, and that that change need not be a character arc; it could be solving a puzzle or removing an obstacle. The same rules apply that a nadir increases the tension. But you skimmed over its placement elsewhere than around the end of act II. The problem is that building the story around a nadir at that point is putting the cart before the horse. For example, a story where the nadir is at the very beginning tells about the long path of redemption. This would be a better format for something like depression or brainwashing, which takes years to recover from. Thus, an author should first determine what their message is and then what arrangement of the elements best amplify that message.
Take 'It's a Wonderful Life' with Jimmy Stewart. There it works because the protagonist has all the skills needed for success, he is only lacking a clarity of vision. In Highlander, Duncan McCloud acquires the skills over the course of the film and he only needs the motivation. Tolkien is far more complex and the nadir at the gates of Mordor is just a technicality; the character arcs are separate, except perhaps Frodo's. One rewatches It's a Wonderful Life for the catharsis, but rereads Tolkien for greater enjoyment of the writing. But many stories expect the protagonist or main character to change fundamentally at the nadir. Jimmy Stewart was a good person the entire film; he just needed to understand that others appreciated that goodness. An evil character who sees the light at the nadir and becomes a good person overnight, how does that work? How does he or she know how to be good? Does a nadir around the end of act II work for that story?
Thank you so much for the comment! I'm not sure what the deal is with the transcript... It might take a bit to render, but nowadays the transcript gets auto-generated pretty cleanly. If it doesn't work, I will check back to see if I can change anything.
Good example of change as well!
@@wrestlingwithwords Sorry to not be clear. If I have a text on my computer or printed, I can highlight things I want to remember and add comments. As far as I know, that autogenerated transcript cannot be copy-pasted into a Word document. It did a good job of autogenerating this time, so it is easy to read.
I did succeed in copying a transcript from a shorter video. It copied the whole page and then ignored the videos, which took a while for Word to do. So, it is possible to copy the transcript into an MS Word document. That means the text becomes searchable, esp. for good quality transcripts, and takes up very little space.
To copy it, first get RUclips to show the transcript. Then mark a small bit using the cursor. Then click control + a to highlight everything on the page. Then control + c to copy it. And control + v to paste it in a Word document. And wait a while.
For me, what makes me write down a story idea IS the low point. Is that not normal?
Regardless of if it’s normal or not, that’s a really good thing!!
Ellie chooses forgiveness after killing how many? The whole thing falls apart.
De dechets et du sang... ...brulant... ...tus.... Of offal and of the blood... ...burning... ...still.... it is free with kindle unlimited it is a collection of English/French poems and short stories hope you like something if you read
Here is one of the poems it is a poetic interpretation of head of a dead young man painting by theodore gericault
Head of a dead young man
Beneath a canvas coarse and crass, the head of a young man upon a cushion soft and of care; feminine chin; upon the lower lip the blood of God; fine nose; hair of an infant here...and...down there; upon his front, the sublime illumination, that descends intimately as though of ivory flame.... ...when, of lavender and of rose, ascending vaguely towards the exegetic darkness, the offal; disclosed thus, profound and grave, an immense lesion, as though of a dolourous ulcer...from where all comes...where all returns....
Thank you for the recommendation!
I love a good character arc, but at the same time we as a society say it’s ok to be evil as long as you change later.
imo it's not saying "it's ok to be evil" it's more "everyone makes mistakes and if someone genuinely changes they shouldn't be bound to their past actions"
A character arc is just the narrative path of change a character has gone through. It's the experience of a character-usually the internal journey. It could be the process of a character going from "bad" to "good," illustrating a redemption arc. But it can also be something like "not believing in true love" to "believing in true love." It should relate to or reflect the theme(s) of the story. Thank you for your perspective and for watching.
It is not okay to be evil, hense the need for change. The argument that once something is anything but pure, that it is forever tainted and must be rejected and hated forever, is arguably evil in itself.
@@lauravsthepage I really like that
Don't worry, no good writers will care about spoilers for the last of us part 2.
I will say... You aren't wrong! But, I will say, Season 2 is coming out soon and I am sure people will be sensitive to that😬.
Not the most important point but you can't get to the most important point without it