The Second Attention Disorder: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - Dr Russell Barkley
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2015
- Presentation slides are available on MEGA: mega.nz/file/GQFWiKTI#JjbqmmA...
Transitions is an annual, one-day conference designed for education professionals, psychologists, parents and university-bound students seeking insightful information on helping high school students with learning differences smoothly transition into higher education. The conference breakout sessions focus on ADHD/ADD, dyslexia, autism spectrum disorders, coaching, executive functioning and other learning differences
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Howey Mandell has ADD. This is what he said about people that say ADD is a gift.
"If this is gift, I want to return it"
I hope my mother kept the receipt :P
If I could keep the blessing parts without the curse parts I'd be a happy man.
But living with both the blessing and the curse? I'd rather be neuro-typical.
It's not a gift!!
I can stay awake all night, not sleep at all, and still be late for work cause I was hyper fixated on whatever I was doing, 45 min / 1 hr will feel like 5-10 mins.
My time blindness and hyper fixations seem to be getting worse as I get older.. most of the time, i can't stop.. I'll want to stop, but i just cant, in my head I'll be praying that my boyfriend or anyone will get me to stop. At first, im annoyed that I had to stop, but after a couple of minutes go by, im so thankful that they got me to stop.. I'm about to turn 30, and my adhd has been so bad this year I feel like I'm starting all over with trying to find what helps me..
I don't know what to do.
This is to all ADHD/SCT/ADD people out there, enjoy. Peace out, its 05.00 and I need to do something with my life.
4:33 - Slide 1, (two parts) Early History of SCT vs. ADHD
6:21 - Slide 2, 1980 to 2010: ADD and ADHD
7:58 - Slide 3, The Criteria for Distinct Disorders
9:46 - 3,5 (no slide), Distinction between symptom and impairment
14:43 - Slide 4, SCT Symptoms on Rating Scales
15:27 - Slide 5, What do we know about SCT?
22:25 - Slide 6, SCT - Findings
32:41 - Slide 7, More Distinguishing Features of SCT
38:10 - Slide 8, Recent large study of SCT in 1,800 U.S. Children 6-17 Yrs (Barkley, 2013)
39:48 - Slide 9, More results on SCT children
43:30 - Slide 10, EF Ratings for SCT vs ADHD
47:22 - Slide 11, Contribution of SCT vs ADHD to EF
48:20 - Slide 12, Impairment in SCT vs ADHD
50:47 - Slide 13, Contributions of SCT vs ADHD to Impairments
51:20 - Slide 14, Overlap of SCT with ADHD
52:06 - Slide 15, Comorbidity in SCT in U.S. Children
54:01 - Slide 16, SCT in U.S. Adults (N = 1,286)
54:40 - Slide 17, New Studies on Adults
56:07 - Slide 18, SCT vs ADHD Adults on EF Ratings
56:29 - Slide 19, Impairments in SCT vs. ADHD
57:29 - Slide 20, Possible Etiologies
1:01:53 - Slide 21, What is the Nature of SCT?
1:02:30 - Slide 22/23, SCT as a Disorder of Mind Wandering?
1:05:48 - Slide 24, Treatment Implications for SCT
1:09:12 - Slide 25, More SCT Treatment Considerations
1:14:54 - Slide 26, SCT is Not an Appropriate Label
1:18:00 - Slide X, Questions
More coming
Thank you so much!!! You are awesome :))
Thank you ! Thank you very much !
I found this series of lectures a few days ago. He has such a gift for describing things in an accessible manner. I wished I had heard these lectures years ago.
I'm just now finding these and if i had found them 7 years ago my whole life would be better now
Same! But so glad to have found his lectures!
Warning: Rant on ADD.The depression is partly caused by constand failure, dissapoinment and guilt + emberrasment from forgetting things all time, coming to late for appointments/meetings/gatherings and not prossessing fast enough so people think you dont care what they are saying. It feels like beeing mentally "kidnapped" in the middel of a conversation , going somewhere often very fare away, completely random, and then suddely beeing put back and when you are put back you have no clue what has been happining while you were "kidnapped "and you have to improvise and pretend you paid attention... and sometimes people think you lie because you cant remember essensial things that others do remember, but you have to pretend you know it and it isnt good at all...!The memory returns again sooner, even though the brain couldnt bring the memory right at the right time, so it isnt completely gone, but it seems really wierd to other people, as if you have Altzheimers, Dementia, Mad cow disease or something like that. It really creepy/scary! I spaced out 3 times during this interesting video. IT (ADD) SHUT YOU OUT FROM EVERY ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE AND ISOLATES YOU! School, work, friendship, social gatherings, sports, you name it.That is depressing in it self...Its like ...having an invisible annoing naggy talkative very exraverted twin handcuffed to you that keep interupting you all the time every day and you cant seperatee yourself from them because you are tied together, but nobody else can see this bothersome person other then you...but everyone can tell you are beening bothered by something...so you constantly try to analyse your own thouhgts from this chatter and from the outer impressions and it feels like beeing on a rockconsert, theatre, shopping mall, fun-faire, sirkus, there is chatter all the freakin time and you cant switch it off. Is it any wonder why isolate our selfes and apear shy? Beeing in school there is often someone to snap you out of the daydream and that can be a relief but when I sit alone at home and do homework I spend 6 hours on a task other fish in 15 minuts because I keep zoning/spacing out, distracted by my own thoughs. Is there anyone else out there who also have hypothyreoism and anemia with their ADD/SCT? I tried anti dep. meds but they gave me exstatic and sometimes horrible nightmares, it wasnt calm dreams like I normally have. Also the side effects were awefull when I quit but they did help a little bit to make me more socially brave and even a bit aggressive, but I quit them. Still use the normal ADHD meds. They work on the executive part and make it somewhat less confusing.I guess I have combined type but primarily ADD. For children and adults with ADD who is supposed to do homework or other chores by them selfes during the day I recomend to use a mindfullness app that rings a bell at random times during the day to put you out of the zone and awake you to the present reality in the here and now. Or similar apps/programs. Best of luck :)
+Linda hey linda,I have sct and narcolepsy with some other shit,I never met someone who actually have sct,I live in morocco I can't even explain it to anyone,and no real psychiatrists here,I'm really hopeless I can only describe sct in english there's no real words to explain it in my native language you can imagine how depressing that makes me,no one really do know how it feels like except thoses with sct,we have no meds nothing only thc to live with
Hi, What medications do you use? have you tried Modafinil as suggested in this presentation by Dr. Barkley? Thank you
I have never tried the med, does it work?
I identify with this so closely. Years upon years of misunderstanding and the consequential mistreatment due to misunderstanding creates depression
I identify with this so closely. Years upon years of misunderstanding and the consequential mistreatment due to misunderstanding creates depression
30:21
I so frequently forget everything that happened in movies I've seen.
I watched Equilibrium 3 times before I solidly remembered that I had already seen it.
I think I got both. It sucks. Brain fog plus zilch working memory and I'm fairly intelligent. No genius. Just smarter than most even with the fog and working memory. I don't care about being rich or have a ton of friends, just be able to have a decent job that covers my needs. I haven't been able to interact with people enough or stick to anything long enough to be able to get a good job. I'm so bummed about it
Same! How's it going?
God, you described my entire life.
I mean, I like to think of myself as intelligent enough. I’m not a genius or anything, but I do try to “expand my mind” or whatever. I just continually feel beaten down by ADHD and have lost hope. I’m not after millions of dollars or being the most popular person in the world. I just want to live a decent life and know that I do something valuable.
Agree that’s me also
A literal God of teaching. If i had Russel Barkley as my teacher maybe i wouldn't have dropped out. As i am 19 years of age, diagnoses twice, once with childhood Adhd, again just recently with adult Adhd. Having my father with undiagnosed ADHD and my mother with both bi-polar and depression. My childhood was pretty miserable in terms of a lack of consistent discipline. I recently became aware of my issus, after i wrote down all my short coming down on a list.
Hi Nick. Replying to your message from two years ago, quite relevant what you mentioned on adhd. Thought you might like a book-I might buy, that I got from a local library. Written by two American ADHD women; I`m Not Stupid, Crazy or Lazy. All about stragedies etc & recognition. Top read
Hey wait till you get older, gets even harder
Man, I would love to be a part of one of his studies. I might go into psychology just to study this. I have so much problem with focus but ADHD does describe me very accurately. We are missed because we are so quiet, but in the background we are struggling.
💯 I am currently in my Master’s of Psychology due to my recent diagnosis. My life would have been so different had I been diagnosed correctly. I was misdiagnosed with depression, which most of us with ADHD know is a result of the inability to reach our goals. 😔
@@lorijane1973 I normally do not leave comments, but yours hit me haaard. This is 100% accurate & relatable.
@@MobileWTF it makes me feel much less an outcast to know others can relate. Thank you!
For so long I've been trying to teach myself not to stare, I had no idea it was a symptom of this disorder. What a relief to know that it might not be my fault after all this time!
My doctor just diagnosed me with SCT/CDD after I went to her thinking that I had symptoms of ADD. Dr. Barkley has helped me to understand it so much more.
wish this guy was my doctor
This is what I think all the time!!!
Oh big time me too
Dr Russel defining pathological mindwandering at 1:02:25 sent a chill up my spine. One single concept that explains so much of my behavior and challanges that have followed me as consistently as a shadow in my life.
Everything I am good at requires all my attention (no room for mindwandering). Seemingly odd things like the simpler the task the more my performance drops compared to my peers suddenly makes sense. Because "simple" can pretty much defined as can be performed with attention to spare.
If you have pathological mindwandering then "attention to spare"/simple will naturally be very hard :P
Wow I can relate to this so much - thank you and thank you to Dr. Barkley.
As soon as he said. "Driving to work." I shook my head and laughed.
His example was a parking lot.
I often miss my intended freeway/highway exit. I usually notice when I visually see it, "hey, there's the exit. Aww damnit."
One time I was so furious over the fact I missed an exit that after I got back on the road to hit the exit again, I missed it a 2nd time.
This was mostly due to the fact that the next place to get back on the road in the opposite direction was a few miles away providing me with ample time to get stuck in my thoughts again.
If they needed more experiments done on people with cdd, I wish I could sign up to help with the research
It makes sense if SCT/CDD is the perseveration of daydreaming. Like being unable to task switch or prioritise correctly because you are daydreaming.
Wow, it's like this guy is talking about me.
hey, do you guys overwhelmed when speaking as well sometimes? losing train of thought? like hanging up the phone and wondering why that conversation didnt go the way you intended ?
Cman YES. I’ll start a conversation wanting to say something really important to someone and completely forget to even bring it up. Then hours later I’ll realize I forgot. I’ll plan to do it the next time I see them and then the whole cycle repeats.
@@Contributron hey that's interesting, why do you think that happens? For me it's like I can't find the words or how to say what I want to say quick enough to allow it to normally flow.
For example, I had to make phone calls to free agent baseball players to find some for my team. I had a few talking points/questions but I felt like I couldn't keep up with the convo and it got taken over by the other guy, I couldn't keep up.
Part of this is my adhd (being overwhelmed by the emotion of the negative thing I have to say).not sure if this is the ADHD too but I am agreeable person So I end up agreeing too quickly with people in general.
@@insaini87 From an eXtremely dysfunctional Family. I'm Lucky to be just the, "Codependent" one. However, they're more likely to FAWN to Nazis - I tend to Freeze!
All 3 of my sibs were horrible* students. Youngest severely ADHD. Older 2; late sister, & bro, ADD, is my guess!
I've thought I was 'adhd' for far longer than possibly? Asperger's, (like her son.) For Decades.
She could learn under duress. The boyz, No. So, I'm thinking they're, maybe, very to quite low on the ASD slide.
We All have problems "applying" knowledge, imo. ... Plus, I'm a 'Lefty' who's 98% Right-handed. And needed Speech Tx, in K - & part of 1st Grade. Which gets into expressive problems, or issues.
But, yeah, I don't remember much from movies ~ and convos can go astray. Abstract & fleeting = harder to keep tabs on. But, in a 'normal' range, usually.
Whereas, it's, especially, harder with eXtremely difficult,* TOXIC manipulative types; Liars, BULLIES & "Game Players,"+ & w/ harmful agendas.
Like, maybe, a lot of "Rt.W.Authoritarians" struggle with Type I, II or BOTH!! And, the Far Alt.-Rt, eXtremists, etc., in particulae!
As, probably, Trumbolina did, as well, who, also, had the ODD + IED? + CD + x L.D.s -> Malig. NPD +?+?+?+?...
I think the DID came first, B/4, or by age 2, or 3 - all the rest, followed &/ or developed simultaneously. Recklessness!
Like, the HPD, AsPD, PPD & the Ciminality; with lack of foresight, empathy or conscience! - And, no ability to self-reflect, or process.
Compared to them, we're doing GOOD!!! 🤣
But, with complex/ "c-PTSD," it's as if my 2 'self-diagnosed' problems are doing much worse. Guess it's time 4 the 'preliminary' Screening!
The Best of Bad genes! ~ LOL
@@insaini87 You could try writing down the key points you want to make, and cross them off as you work through them. If you know that your thinking is unreliable, dont rely on it! Outsource to static forms of memory (like a notebook).
Like today when I was staring off daydreaming and they were trying to get my attention and I said that I was off in my own little world.
OMG I'm a living proof of SCT and I wondering all my life why my mind wasn't the same of my friends or co-workers? ... In México where I 'm from, this dosen't exist... excuse me english.
Syd S Hola me gustaría hablar más contigo sobre este tema, claro que existe, solo que la cultura Hispana por desgracia está atrasada a nivel científico:(
Instead of SCT Mexicans call it “flojo” “distraido” and sometimes “menso”🤣
Hola!! Acá en Puerto Rico les dicen vagos o “recostaos” Y aunque aquí estamos bajo las mismas leyes médicas de los Estados Unidos, la realidad es que no hay muchos médicos que dominen estas áreas tan diferentes.
Everything said about cdd in this video is an exact profile of me. At one point when he said that they might not notice the dots in division, that scared me with the accuracy, cause I was playing a mind exercise app (I feel like I need to put twice in the effort) I kept mixing up subtraction with multiplication, and I couldn’t calculate the equations fast enough. I have anxiety as well, so I’m very worried about my future, to the point were I don’t think I can manage on my own, I don’t trust my mind. My mum always told me its cause I wasn’t concentrating (when at times I was and yet I still messed up somehow) but clearly that isn’t the problem
That's totally me, I was always scared that I will never be able to function as an adult but here I am. I discovered that if I realy realy bully myself into putting my mind in a right place I'm able of doing things that seemed impossible before. Don't give yourself up yet my friend ✊.
32:15 It should be noted that those with ADHD tend to simply *forget* to socialize regularly with established friends (they have no sense of time, so don't notice the non-communication has gone on not a few days but months), and whatever's not in front of their face can flat-out cease to exist in their awareness without regularly scheduled reminders (yes, even relationships). It doesn't help that neurotypicals tend to not believe executive function issues are the root causes of things like constant tardiness and forgetting birthdays etc. type events repeatedly -- there's a lot of "if you *really* loved me, you'd be on time and remember". But ADHD brains don't work that way, it has nothing to do with importance, and so relationships and friendships often end (badly) or just fade out.
Accidentally hit "post" too soon -- So, to clarify, ADHD relationship issues may not be entirely or at all a "socializing" issue but an effect of executive dysfunction.
How do I fix this!!! I don't want to be broken for the rest of my life!!! HELP!
I hear you
Yeah I think I have sct combined with adhd. I've been drinking a lot lately because nobody's given me a solution
@@tomismop medication, meditation, exercise, breaking up large tasks into smaller ones, forgive yourself for past mistakes, tailor your life around your weaknesses, ask for accommodation at work or school, see a therapist or life coach
try to get yourself diagnosed (it makes things easier to have the certanty of what's wrong) and no matter the results get yourself some professional help.
Try a very low dose of Dexedrine and Propranolol only in complex social situations. It helps the focus. Speeds up the processing speed a little and reduces the mind wandering. Propranolol helps with the social anxiety especially the kind performing musicians have.
Grateful for the information presented here. So important for Dr. Barkley to persist in changing the name of sluggish cognitive tempo. These labels all, however, are highly troubling. All of my coaching clients, friends, and family members with ADHD-inattentive type also are gifted, highly empathic, highly sensitive, creative individuals who quickly see new, innovative ways of thinking about and solving problems. What a burden to have a brilliant mind and now have the label "sluggish cognitive tempo" affixed to them. This now adds an even more disempowering label than "attention deficit."
clearly you understanding is off..., have you ever wondered that all those highly sensitive, emphatic, creative individuals you were referring to are not truly qualitatively disordered in the first place? but no, you like most of the lay population seem to connect the wrong things to each other and then make people like me who truly suffer qualitatively and barely exist a harder time finding themselves support and understanding. please don't confuse sct with adhd, they are completely different, i've met tons of people with adhd, and they were exactly like the people you were explaining, they had trivial problems with superior traits. i have never met anyone that even looked like they had sct in group therapies or support groups, but adhd, i can't even count how many i've seen, not so brilliant after all when almost everyone you see is superior, because it isn't a disorder to begin with.
why do you think adhd is the easiest disorder to treat in psychiatry, look at barkley's other videos and he will explain why if you can do enough listening and comprehension..., the problems in adhd are quantitative, not qualitative...
Jody Jacobson was.
Jody thank you, I have been Diagnosed with SCT and I did a mensa IQ test and scored a raw score of 140 and a devianted score of 125 and i have a hard time expressing my intelligence and when you are slapped with a label that suggests otherwise it is even more discouraging. I do not like to be in large groups and my last boss always gave me grief because I did not like to go to staff parties. life with a disability and no support has been difficult and last year I turned 60 and was basically forced to retire. Thank you for the role you play in your community.
@@idin03 ADHD is a crippling disorder, how can you say it is not a disorder in the first place??
@@CH-tw7wbit's almost like you didn't even read what i wrote fully. first of all, i never said it's NOT a disorder, there are clearly many conditions that are labelled as disorders, but does that mean that it's entirely valid for them to be so? we'll that's up to you to decide on what makes something a disorder. third of all, the research and specificity of the condition is very vague, broad, and unclear, even up to this point, and so much for the SCT condition, and the fact that even those with SCT from a community such as reddit treating it / making it seem more quantitative in it's impairments is enough to tell you that research has not been working and only caused inaccuracies, but then again, that's always gonna happen because most people are like that.
ADHD is similar to borderline PD, on the outside, typical people would respond saying oh my god, it's sucks having this or man, that guy is very impaired, or wow, he almost got into a car accident, but then we you look into treatment options and projectory / outlook, these people actually aren't all that impaired IF they receive adequate support and medication for example ( more so for ADHD ), but even for those with Borderline PD, their outlook actually gets better overtime, not worse. Barkley does make a good point that he does focus on the 5 percent or w.e who don't function very well or what have you, and his viewpoint is the right viewpoint here, but the point i was making on ADHD, and many other conditions is that the impairements you are seeing are things that can be managed at a reasonable level, and even for the 5 percent that don't, it's STILL due to quantitative issues, not qualitative.
but with other conditions, medication or lifestyle changes might help, but only so much if this individual can take advantage of these things. for those with ADHD for example, the majority of them as i mentioned are blessed with many aspects of life functioning and personality traits that if managed well, can provide a very quality of existence and functionality, but for other people like myself, it's not a question of increasing positive emotion if there isn't much of anything positive to be used or benefited from, because the goal for people like me is lessening distress, as opposed to gaining positive emotions, and that's a sad existence.
this is not the case with the majority of ADHD people. there is a good reason why most of them do not develop or experience clinical depression, which is difficult to believe, because if one looks literally at the condition, they'd be like, we'll, id be depressed too, but you see, depression is much more complex than that and Barkley's research ( if you cared to be aware of this or look into ), has shown that what we thought would be depression in those with ADHD is actually explained by SCT...., his research itself is trying to point out that stop misunderstanding what ADHD is or even SCT...., yet you have all these people who don't take the time to look into these practical assessments, their excuse is, i have ADHD....., we'll what i what say is, no, you have ignorance and issues with interpreting things....
I was recently (at age 28) diagnosed with ADHD predominantly inattentive type. This fits me SO well. Btw, my processing speed was 80, while my working memory was 100. The rest of my IQ was around the 130 mark... So yeah.
Was there a test to help you figure this out?
I'm even more confused now as to what's causing me to suffer mentally I had elements of both🤦😒
Same!
Dr Russel Barkley--- You are such a gift to psychiatry! This was one of the best presentations I have ever heard from you. I have been listening to every podcast, TED Talk, webinar and reading several books the past couple months to help discern what is going on with my 9 yr old daughter ( I had her at age 45 naturally). Painful to know this presentation was 8 years ago.....but regardless, so valuable! My daughter, I believe has ADHD, and I am realizing I have similar attributes. However, the SCD, or rather CDD is totally ME! Thank you....from the bottom of my heart and my 49 year struggle of symptomology you so eloquently explained. Chronic major depression , anxiety, work problems and rejection sensitivity ate my key symptoms expressed.
I love the suggestion of Strattera to maybe find the final missing piece of my journey. I take 3 anti depressants--norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor took me out of a 10 yr major depression 15 yrs ago! I believe my daughter is ADHD and CDD (SCT)Innatentive ADHD.😂
I cant wait to see if Friendship Therapy is out for parents cause it sounds perfect!
Questions:
1. Does Rejection sensitivity coincide with the SCT? Because that has been huge with me over the past 25 years. No impulsivity unless triggered by RSD.
2. My daughter is definitely both ADHD and SCT. ( Her dad is ADHD). How do I help her at home with emotion dysregulation, and assisting with helping her in the executive function skills? What works at home to help her socially, academically ( doing above average right now though), but home life listening skills, memory, no planning ahead or ability to see risks.
3. No screen time or limited? I think it ri s her frim developing skills she is already behind in. But this isolated her from her friends that started pushing her away. (Neighbors really but she thinks they are her best friends). I am trying to help her discern between friends similar to us vs just being different.
You totally channged my life with this presentation!
I am going to search if you have more presentations in this area!
I hope this finds you! 😊
After watching hours and hours of videos and reading up on the subject of ADHD and other related disorders, I swear I have SCT/CDD/Inattentive presentation ADHD, Impulsive/Hyperactive presentation ADHD, Autism Spectrum Disorder, infrequent episodes of Depression, and maybe even Dyslexia.
Professional opinion is definitely needed here I think haha...
I have this disorder. I finally have answers. Thank you Dr. Russell.
I love Russel Barkley, he changed my life (to a much better one)
Sir, I would like to applaud you for your precision in conveying information and your careful/clear choice of words.
Thank you for the kind words, however I am not Dr Barkley nor does Dr Barkley run this channel. I am simply someone who was finally diagnosed with ADHD in his 30s and run this channel to help others with ADHD. Dr Barkley can be contacted through his website: www.russellbarkley.org
9:24 From here on he just goes *off* with amazing information, amazing this almost makes me want to be a psychologist
Thank God for his knowledge about this.
That's so funny, he mentioned WoW, and that's exactly the game i was playing while being late to the bus.
Thats the game i skipped school to from 6th gtade all the way until now, just that now im unemployed lol. Only things i can focus on in all of existence, And Even then i just level new chars every time i reach max lvl...
Sluggish cognitive tempo -- another victory for terminology. I'm just realizing that I had it throughout my schooling. The only time I was interested in what was going on was when something interesting was being said/demonstrated -- about 1% of the time. I didn't act out, I just wasn't there. A very healthy reaction to being totally bored. Luckily, I was a reader and we had books in my house so I got interested in things on my own.
That could also be called intelligence. ;o)
@@Donnah1979 Right, eventually being *dumb* will become some disorder that professionals will try to snuff out!
hey, do you guys overwhelmed when speaking as well sometimes? losing train of thought? like hanging up the phone and wondering why that conversation didnt go the way you intended ?
Always :( :(
This is why I don't speak much
Oh yeah
Oh I have so many problems with this.
I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid. I always day dreamed. Never felt hyperactive. Now i feel it was Sluggish Cognitive Tempo.
Thank you so much. Brilliant!
1st Post!
Seriously tho, it was enjoyable.At least I think it is so far.
As charming as Dr Barkley is, it would have been nice if the camera man showed the slide at the same time as Dr Barkley. :D
Also, CCD sounds way better.
+Toll T
I agree. I don't understand why someone would film a presentation and ignore the slides! If you wish to view the slides, I often include a link to the slides in the description if they are available.
+Adhd Science L theanine i found to be great for my sct
I use Strattera and it has completely erased both my pathological mind-wandering and my daytime sleepiness.
Paavo Sallinen if only it wasn’t so expensive
Daytime sleepinesss... omg thats an adhd thing?
@@kathy2888 I think it is more an SCT/CDD feature in general. Everybodys got their own set of problems to go with the diagnostic ones.
@@goldenhelmet403 It's much cheaper now.
@@paavosallinen1393 I've never had this "Daytime sleepiness", does it mean I don't have SCT? I'm diagnosed with ADD.
SO HELPFUL! This has opened my eyes so much.
It's not a gift!!
I can stay awake all night, not sleep at all, and still be late for work cause I was hyper fixated on whatever I was doing, 45 min / 1 hr will feel like 5-10 mins.
My time blindness and hyper fixations seem to be getting worse as I get older.. most of the time, i can't stop.. I'll want to stop, but i just cant, in my head I'll be praying that my boyfriend or anyone will get me to stop. At first, im annoyed that I had to stop, but after a couple of minutes go by, im so thankful that they got me to stop.. I'm about to turn 30, and my adhd has been so bad this year I feel like I'm starting all over with trying to find what helps me..
I don't know what to do.
As a kid I definitely had ADHD, but as I reached my 20s this is far more accurate.
I really enjoy Dr. Barkley's presentations. Even better, he reminds me very much of Niles Crane from Frasier.
Excellent discussion! Much vital information here! Yes, it would be interesting to see the brain scans, etc and correlations with neurological studies. As well as further studies regarding environmental pollutants, etc., as causal of these attention disorders since so many people are suffering these diseases/disorders. Disease being a definitive medical causal versus disorder which does not have a specific causation. Why are there no links to environmental pollutants, genetics or cortisol and other biochemical, hormonal or other toxins/poisons? If we knew exactly the cause of these disorders we could label the disease and find a cure or at the very least, better, more successful treatments. Thank-you.
I have an IQ of 128 but my sct interferes with that because I would just become lost in a daydream or I just straight up can't focus. It's sad
haha me too! same IQ score, but concentrating is often really hard
Yeah i feel like I'm mentally stuck in a hospital waiting to get better but I'm actually gonna die there
I like listening to this guy. Out of all professionals.. he seems the most angry at the patient’s problem. He certainly knows his subject, yet the angry irony is the subject probably slaps his wrist with some sort of ridiculous frustration fifty times a week.
This is fascinating and I can totally relate to many of these symptoms. I wish he could study me lol
Been searching for this! This is me! I diagnosed myself with ADD and ME/CFS. This and Executive Disorder.
Great presentation. #CDD
Hi! I just found out about this. I totally enter the SCT definition.
What's the difference between this and chronic fatigue?
Anyways, Ice baths 2/day are the most effective thing I have found in my 25 years plus looking.
Yep. Pretty much sums me up. On the maths thing. I've been thinking one of the reasons for this is the memory store feels further back and harder to access. eg I'm pretty sure 6 x 8 = 48 but I'll check it another way because I'm not 100%. Whereas with neurotypicals this knowledge is more easily acccessed and no calculation is required. Also maths is boring to a 14yo
Agree. This is what I do too.
When you said norepinephrine drug I was amazed. I have low NE.
1:02:25 My shrink misunderstood my pathological mind-wandering and tagged it as poor concentration and thats why all this time I considered myself an ADHD case
Whatever he described above is what I am .... Also all the ADHD's I have met so far were totally different from me
@@Bobby-lv2kr how are you now? Need help.
@@vegeta8169 I am 41 now and as I am growing old I have started to forget things more often I am getting extremely slow in starting and ending any home project and I have started to make terrible mistakes during driving there are so many other issues but in a nutshell it's getting worst.
@@Bobby-lv2kr i'm 44. I made a huge progress this last year. I made sure I got 8 hours of sleep. Used sleepcycle app, longworking melatonine 3mg, selfhypnosis, diet and exercise.
Sleep plays a HUGE factor
If you want help, let me know.
I was diagnosed in kindergarten with A.D.D. and A.P.D. but I've been told I have alot of energy!
Why are MAOI's never mentioned. I mean, MAO A is also noradrenergic...
L theanine is brilliant and cheap i got it at my local health store helps you focus and calms anxiety at the same time
Still use it?
its not powerful enough for me
PERSEVERATION. That's what it is!!
CBT worked for my ADHD at 50 yrs without meds, the whole concept fascinated me, so maybe that was enough of a driver to sustain some major improvements. Basically it put the B in ABC as in Action Behaviour Consequence
I was diagnosed with ADD but I think I have SCT
I'm impulsive because I can't filter thoughts before saying them. I'm slow processing information, but fast to say things without thinking. I make small and big mistakes because I can't see the small details in front of my eyes, and I'm horrible at maths.
how effective were the stimulants? that's a good indicator of which disorder you might have.
Giselle TDC that’s ADHD, he makes that very clear
That makes sense. I am convinced, then, that I have been more troubled throughout my life from SCT, despite the fact I meet a diagnosis for ADHD combined. I am definitely more of an internalizer which also makes sense given the early history of myself and the parent I inherited it from [I am sure]. I am also better responsive to smaller doses [and primarily, Vyvanse]. I would be tempted to trying Straterra, except I had difficulty with side-effects with the similar Effexor. I had to stay on a subtherapeutic dose because I would be too sleepy througout the day. Unfortunately, I had to get off because of GI sensitivity. Then, getting off the mere 37.5mg dose started causing rebound anxiety once I got into my third week off of it. So, now I am afraid to try Straterra. Yet, I always wonder, because of the SCT aspect or Pathological Wandering [particularly childhood, but I relate to the "multi-tasking brain" while trying to drive [but it doesn't work to reel it in, like it used to, so....!].
Wow. I think I have ADD, SCT, Executive Dysfunction and problems with Working memory, and music worms non stopped. And have people who always want me around but I don’t won’t to always hang out or go places.
This man is Amazing!!!! He is spot on!! For all the people who treat their kids like shit I want to strangle!! Their poor kids are sick!! I’ve had issues since a kid and I’m 57 now. There was no such thing as teaching self soothing. You were just told to go to your room and think about what you just did or said or write it 1000 times! I was called a brat, got soap in my mouth and on top of that I was being molested by my stepfather!! If I had been smart enough I could have written a book! I am now dealing with the worst depression and pain in my life because my husband recently committed suicide in December! He had a severe addiction to his pain medication and his ADHD medication so they took both away!!!! He was in and out of the hospital since he was young, ran away from home, got into selling drugs in Florida at the very young age. He was an extremely good looking young man in his late teens so he passed four older than he was. Then as he got more popular he could get in to any club he wanted. After listening to these talks I am very curious to get back the report I am waiting for on his autopsy because they did not put cause of death yet even though he overdosed on heroin! I believe he has been misdiagnosed for years, overmedicated, medication changed to many times etc. etc.! When he went in the hospital in November he was in for six weeks and he said that if they didn’t put him back on his Adderall he would buy heroin and overdose and take himself out of this world they refused to put him back on because he said he was abusing it so they discharged him without even telling me I’m put him in a cab and sent him home. And he did exactly what he said he would do!! I blame the doctors especially after listening to these talks and I think I am going to definitely pursue a lawsuit against the hospital once I get the full autopsy report back. They did have to send out slices of his brain so if that comes back showing some thing that he needed medication for and they would not give it to him heads will roll!! There is nothing worse than being on Adderall and needing it to get through the day then having someone take it away from you!
Wow!!! Those doctors sound extremely irresponsible. Please do your best to pursue a lawsuit. They took your husband off of one or more medications that he needed. Where's the logic insane will you really need this and you're taking it regularly so I'm going to take it away from you?? This is madness! how can they ethically justify what they did? I failed to see how. Please. You deserve better. Get a lawyer, start talking now. You deserve compensation and those doctors should be forced to justify their actions and possibly have their licenses revoked. This would not have happened if he was given the stabilizing medication he needed. They did this. Could you imagine if they had done this to a cancer patient? How do they justify taking away medication from somebody who needs it? I need food, I have a food dependency if I don't get food I'll die. So because I have a food dependency I shouldn't get food? To see how insane this is? Unless there's something else going on I'm now convinced these doctors should not be practicing. You can't just take away a vital medication that stabilizes somebody or relieves them of their pain on the justification that they need it? Isn't that why they were taking it in the first place? Like my mouth is just a gate right now I really have trouble believing what I'm hearing but clearly not all doctors are responsible or ethical unfortunately even though we want to believe that.
Please do all your homework and follow through. Get a lawyer. They did wrong, they certainly knew better. These are not dummies. You deserve justice.
They're doing this to pain patients too and thousands if not tens of thousands probably of pain patients over the past 5 to 10 years have basically been killing themselves because their pain is so severe that without opioids they really can't tolerate existing. Because their pain won't go away and because it's severe. So all of this opioid overdose false crises, is impacting tens of thousands of desperate patients who need access to this medication. While any overdose is sad, I believe this is a false and manufactured crisis to take away pain medication from pain patients. Why they want to do that I have no idea. Clearly these people are sadists and they just want others to suffer. What other justification could there be? is this coming from the DEA? Is this coming from some other interest group? I honestly don't know, I wish I knew and maybe soon enough we'll find out.
By my personal experience, Pathological Mind Wandering is what drives the mind to OCD when you can't deal with it due to excess depression. Ultimately, SCT could trigger OCD and, further in life, could trigger ADHD because of executive function exaustion.
SCT can be the link between ADHD and OCD.
I would like Dr. Barkley to say what is his opinion about this...
Still confused whether I have ADHD, SCT/CDD or both. My dad definitely has SCT and my little brother definitely has ADHD
I have all of these issues. ugh. SCT and ADHD. Strange because they seem to contradict one another but I definitely have these contradictory issues. So frustrating. Where can I find a therapist who can understand me???
What about people whose mind-wandering is usually about things directly related to what they were doing at the moment their thoughts diverged from the task in hand (such as listening)? This is not distraction or use of excess executive capacity. It's typically an idea or question. Essentially, it's a kind of wandering wondering: it's exploratory. What work has been done relating to this? I'd be very keen to know.
It also can be abscence seizures that are linked toADHD
Could the HALO headset help alleviate SCT symptoms?
How can i know if I have sluggish cognitive tempo? Is there a way to test it? Maybe even participate on their studies?
Can anyone tell me when he was talking about the brain? Something being shortened in scp brains? I cant find it
25:00 I wouldn't call the working memory problem *small,* and just fyi, reciting digit span backwards in a quiet distraction-free room is nothing at all like real-world rapid-fire verbal work instructions or school math word problems. What a hellish nightmare is become any experience of trying to explain one's failures in that realm to parents, teachers, bosses, clients...
P. S. To clarify, I'm speaking from the experience of having both trouble focusing (as in *not* drifting off into daydreams) AND retaining and processing info when I can pay attention but quickly lose incoming data like sand through my fingers and then becoming overwhelmed into Blue Screen of Death mode. In the second issue, I'm certainly not daydreaming, but rather am excruciatingly aware of every second of the entirety of the horribly embarrassing situation I'm experiencing (usually publically).
31:00 But do these SCT social shyness studies account for possible autism, which could greatly factor in to the anxiety, apprehension etc. when social communication difficulties (compounded by a history of frequent or even *only* bad experiences) play huge part in why autistics tend to be socially withdrawn, unengaged and just generally unenthused about social events/interacting with people altogether?
Ah, just saw next part. But as an autistic who does like social interaction when it is pleasant, moreso with known and liked individuals, or when I more clearly understand the unspoken social rules of a situation,* it's not true that all autistics are aloof. Not even those who display "classic" autism traits, like failing to understand all forms of humour and sarcasm or having a strong inclination towards STEM careers. Likewise, not all neurotypicals enjoy "people'ing" to the same degree, if at all; introverts and lone wolf-types do exist, after all.
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What most all autistics dislike is repeated negative social experiences. The tendency of neurotypicals towards inmplicationese, non-literal language, and non-verbal communications (that we tend to miss entirely or misinterprete) as well as seemingly arbitrary unspoken social rules that make every interaction a social minefield. It can feel less depressing to simply not engage (and certainly seems like less trouble), but for many of us, we still need and want interpersonal connection and relationships.
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*(customer service interactions, for example, can actually be useful in that there's a pretty set expectation on both sides about what topics will usually be conversed about, side-story pleasantries aside)
What is the difference between slow sensory processing disorder and sluggish cognitive disorder? Or are they the same thing?
writing this message while working, listening searching for stuff in Amazon and checking my phone. D:
Can you have SCT only in relation to math?
Not at all…
_(Note to self: Need to update from pathological mindwandering next time I listen to this.)_
As a perpetually slow person, I am writing down everything I relate (and sometimes, don't) to in this video and why/how I think I relate (and sometimes don't) to it. Please don't mind me.
*1. Staring, Daydreamy and Hypoactive*
That's me in three words. I always thought I was distracted because I would be doing something and sometime later (seconds, minutes or in a few instances. even hours later depending on how comfortable I'm in a space) find myself staring and/or daydreaming. I thought me staring was due distractibility of ADHD brains but it seems like it's not? I also daydream at so many instances in life that I once thought I was maladaptive daydreaming but as I looked into it, I don't think I was. Of course, I need to be honest that how often and long I do either depends on the day. As for hypoactivity, if I'm given something to stare at and daydream, with some audio playing, I am happy. But, there are also times where I am constantly fiddling with one thing or the other, learning and practicing/ indulging in one hobby or the other. It all depends.
*2. I am slow to process information **_and_** to extract what's important from it*
There have been so many times I've been listening to class lectures and just not understood even the simplest things when everyone from the toppers to the failing students grasp it so easily. Same when reading stuff I haven't understood already. I've always thought I was dumb but also not because, from experience, I know that if I sit down and give myself enough time to understand stuff slowly/ at my pace, I can understand it well enough to teach even the complex of the ideas/problems in that category to others.
When I do understand stuff, I am slow to understand what's important in it. Every sentence looks and sounds important because it relates to the next one and that relates to the next and so on.
*3. Persevation?*
I do this, or at least the example given. If I'm interested in something, _anything,_ I keep all my focus on it, even ignoring my irl responsibilities to complete that thing. I cannot put stuff that I'm interested in down 95% of the times (5% to excuse myself in case I have put stuff down but have forgotten it since) even while I'm screaming at myself internally to go do something In should be doing instead.
*4. Inaccuracy*
I do have problems with inaccuracy, especially in calculation but not too much? I mean I do sometimes forget the negatives or to change the units and such (especially when I'm attempting to do something fast) but since I am also a perfectionist, I don't have too much trouble in the inaccuracy part. Though, sometimes it does take me time to get things accurate.
For example, I am studying architecture. My teachers say that my work is always neat and almost perfect but that means at home, I think I finish something, go out to freshen up, return, and see the myriad of things I had actually forgotten to do. But I'm not completely sure that's my inaccuracy increasing or just a common problem for architecture students.
*5. Social shyness*
Oh, hello. That's me. Socially withdrawn to the point of not minding isolation as long as I have stuff that interests me. I do have a need for social contact, but that's a once-in-a-while thing for me. I even joke around with some friends that if you give me books and leave me in a castle in the middle of nowhere (that has nature) and I wouldn't feel bored at all. Sure, it's not just books, I'd like modern luxuries of plumbing and stuff, food and water and stuff that allows me to implement stuff I learn in books _but_ that makes an already unfunny joke longer and more unfunny.
*6. ODD, anti-socialness, addiction and crime*
Well, I don't think I can provide any insight into this but does doing almost everything you're told, having no backbone, a strong aversion to any addictive substance count? I also haven't committed any crimes and don't intend to.
*7. Oversensitive to punishment*
Does being so afraid of getting things wrong or seeming stupid that you don't talk to authority figures in your life about things that are bothering you/ question stuff you don't understand count?
*8. Sports*
Does it count that I've never had an interest in sports? And when I was forced to play, I was _bad_ at anything I played?
This video DOES NOT SHOW THE LIST of 14 items that make up SCT. What are they? So frustrating that the camera does not show the slide, only the speaker.
Yeah what a mess
In retrospect, my diagnosis would be discounted due to two parents with
diagnosed psychiatric issues. Thus the original dx. of ADD would still be
accurate.
Is there anyone else with SCT who also has Maladaptive Daydreaming Disorder?
✋
Oh hey :) great im not the only one. for me its like theres no point where the one syndrome stops and the other begins, in my mind theyre interacting with each other a lot. jokar
I guess so tho' I don't know what maladaptive means (I know what it means -- just not what's maladaptive about reacting to boredom with daydreaming). It seems like the height of adaptive. I'm sure Einstein had it.
I'm wondering if it's the same thing? Dr. Russels suggests calling SCT CDD (Compulsive Daydreaming Disorder) in stead.
I thought it stands for Concentration Deficit Disorder. But there is a new paper on comorbiditties with MDD by Profesoor Eli Somer. Sample size was only 39 individuals, but in that survey 75% of people with MDD also had ADD, and 68% were ADD without hyperactivity. Considering that they didn't look for SCT, but for ADD, I think it is indeed possible that a huge number of Maladaptive Daydreamers qualify for SCT too.
hm..i wonder could this be dyspraxia combined with add?
It is the same as ADD, they've just started calling it something else...
Merete Mitfuldenavn clearly didn't listen to the lecture
Where is the description of the issue of holding a lot of details in your head in ORDER. It can all be there, but you can't link the info in order. Me, I cannot memorize driving directions. I cannot hold a map in my head. This is a unique thing, imo, and there are TONS of people with this condition. I do not see this described in the literature. It needs to be.
This is ME!!! Wow.
Guys n girls, did you try high-intensity sports, alcohol, nicotine, super sweet food, discussion in a friendly circle? How did it affect you? Did anything help in getting rid of being tired, slow and depressed?
I am addicted to all this because it helps. I am lost when I don't move, when I don't drink for days or weeks, when I don't smoke, when I don't enjoy sweets or don't engage in social activities. I turn into a zombie without the external stimulation.
Sweets, alcohol, and smoking don't do anything for me. Exercise gives me happy endorphins, but I'm too unmotivated to workout consistently enough for it to impart any long-term effects on my energy. I don't think you have SCT. It's possible you're simply experiencing withdrawal symptoms or some other externally-related factors. SCT isn't a product of ones environment, it's a result of the internal brain wiring gone wrong. Diet and exercise can improve the balance of hormones and neurotransmitters, but I don't think they're strong enough to change the wiring of the brain.
stimulant medication would help with the lethargy and slow motor movement though, wouldn’t it? you may not be able to control your mind-wandering but at least you wouldn’t fall asleep on the job?
Well, maybe for some. But actually most of us sct aparently dont stand the stimulants. Even with a slight dosis, there are physical responses that are way too high: shaking bodies, heart beats, sleeping desorders. For example: if i drink one teaspoon of light cofee in the morning, i shake, i swet, get heartbeats and have a white night. Not to mention nervosity and not being able to stay quiet for a minute. When i tried rilatine, it was horrible: i had all the bad effects, and no benefits at all.
No way, no stimulants for me. I tried caffeine to combat my chronic fatigue and all it did was give me palpitations, make me jittery, cause eye-twitching, and lead to diuretic runs to the bathroom. I'm ok with not having energy, so long as I can focus and correct my serious lack of motivation. I'm betting I could push through my lethargy if my motivation and determination were high. Maybe I need medication that tricks my brain into going into survival mode or something. I definitely need to stop the daydreaming, bc it's the biggest delay factor in my life. Also, would love something to correct my perception of time. The world always seems to move faster than me, and I always seem to assume I have more time than I actually do. Even after all these years, I still experience time-shock when I look at a clock and wonder how an entire hour had passed in what felt like 10 minutes!
Dr Barkley reminds me very much of the Architect in the Matrix. The beard and the voice.
Does being shoved in front of a television since before we could walk turn us into super inattentive forgetful types?
Can SCT be treated with Ritalin?
41:43 take me as a sample for example.
L Thianine and iodine are superb for brain fog and slow cognitive tempo also the iodine cures cracked dry hands and L thianine is great for anxiety.
If that’s what’s found in matcha green tea, no wonder it works for me
I really wish the person filming had focused on his slides.
21:20 That comment about Warcraft felt like a personal attack to me :(
My husband has symptoms of inattentive ADD, Aspergers and SCT. Vyvanse just help a tiny little bit. He gets offended if I say he is spaced out so what helps is every 1/2 hour I just do something very noisy so he wakes up or I start walking louder towards him so he can hear me approaching, giving him time to wake up and fake that he is doing something... is exhausting for me. The chores load is unbalanced. I need help‼️‼️
Just leave the house. He will learn to keep attentive if he thinks you'll leave when he isnt paying attention.
How exactly will he learn to keep attention? he is mentally impaired more likely, he needs help not punishment.
I have SCD but it was diagnosed as ADHD :o
Considering it would have taken eli lilly millions to develop atomoxetine you would think they would have done more research into SCT than this man suggests... (Whether the drug has turned out to be effective or not...)
Also is SCT linked to malnutrition? Thiamine deficiency/ refeeding syndrome during development ( other brain injury/ genetic factors) that impact the functioning of the thalamus? I don;t know anything about brains and presumably it is a far more complicated interplay of neurobiological and environmental factors than that, and obviously also depends on timing during development...
There is a study in rats which compares prenatally malnourished adult rats to control rats. When subject to a stress the amount of REM sleep in the prenatally malnourished rats was reduced significantly compared to the controls. So maybe something like this (sleep architecture, particularly when stressed) could be linked to the tiredness seen in SCT?
Also, as an aside, what are the long term consequences of iron deficiency on brain development and cognition? 1/3 of the word's population is iron deficient. Teenage irls are also much more likely to be iron deficient. Does this have any relation to the evening up of adhd diagnosis over adolescence?? OK, - rant finished!
The slides????
@42:00 as he spoke about the social factors that may be causing it, I’ve thought recently about the adhd differences in my family and the social factors and the difference is smoking households. My brother and son are both adhd they’ve been brought up in non smoking households. Myself and my dad are aligning with SCT, both of us had parents who smoked. I suspect a change happens in utero which defines the brain.
Show the damn slides!!
My advice is to get your own house and be debt free as possible .Work online or on something you're good at.Even a small stand or business because the less stressors there are the better.Running on a treadmill like a rat isn't where it's at.Comparing and keeping up with others won't work.
The problem is I need structure and accountability. Living alone is stress-free, however I daydream far too often, I'm time-blind way too much, and I don't start my day until late afternoon. It's paralyzing. I need a career where I'm told what to do and when, since I can't be trusted to set my own deadlines. COVID was the perfect opportunity to take courses, start a new hobby, or try to lose weight. Guess what? It was all money down the drain. It doesn't matter how much money I invest in tools or classes, if I can't get motivated to start. And then I feel guilty for wasting time and losing money. It's so frustrating having a plan, but not being able to execute the plan. It's an inner war with myself every single day. I much prefer the fantasy life I've built in my head. No start-up costs, no obstacles to overcome, no perception of time to worry about. My Fantasy Self has already reached the pinnacle of happiness and my dream world is so much easier to control. Idk if my daydreaming is a disassociation of reality, but it's certainly a hindrance either way, so I never get anything done in the real world. That's bc unlike my Fantasy Self, the low energy and low motivation that my Real Self faces, makes life feel like a massive hurdle. It's exhausting.
@@annanabil73 We should message and compare!! Oh I would love to talk to someone who understands. I need some encouragement from others but so far people catch on usually just want to exploit my weaknesses for their gain. 😪
I find this to be point on. Having my own home and limiting my debt. Less problems to daydream over I’m better off. Like being married or roommate f I can’t handle. And I’m going to something I can do online. Because I’m tired of making mistakes at a job or fearing I will. Minor but still.
i hate living with me and have about had enough. The only reason i stick around is due to being a single parent and couldn't do it to my son. The entire thing is a cruel fucking joke. i fuck up with being late and losing shit all the time. so that sucks, add to this the fact that nobody takes it seriously, like it's some bullshit excuse and it's enough to push you over the edge. so, I'm 50 years old have been a partier all my life and an adrenaline junky. i'll be glad when it's over because as i get older i am getting tired
12:00 listen to this before you comment "OMG hes describing me perfectly".
a few videos back you were saying that ADHD includes problems with the short term memory. Now here you are saying is only typical of SCT. hmm.