Remember the victims. Steven mark hicks, 18 Steven Walter Tuomi, 25 James Edward Doxtator, 14 Richard Guerrero, 22 Anthony Lee sears, 24 Raymond Lamont smith (Ricky Beeks) , 32 Edward Warren smith, 27 Ernest Marquez miller, 22 David Courtney Thomas, 22 Curtis Durrell Straughter , 17 Errol Lindsey, 19 Tony Anthony Hughes, 31 Konerak Sinthasomphone, 14 Matt Cleveland turner, 20 Jeremiah Benjamin Weinberger, 23 Oliver Joseph lacy Joseph Arthur Bradehoft, 25 And the one who survived Tracy Edwards
The thing that annoys me the most is the fact that this kind of thing is EXACTLY what a lot of serial killers want. They want to be infamous. They want their names to be known and feared. And this show basically said to all those sick people who wish to have that; “yep, this exactly what you want so go right ahead!”. They don’t fear their horrible acts being frowned upon, but they desire to be known at large for it. EDIT; for everyone who’s misunderstood me in the comments; this isn’t about Dahmer, the guys dead, it doesn’t matter what he wanted. No, this comment was clearly about the people who idolise serial killers and want their actions to go down in history.
No wonder they're called serial killers, killing three or more victims guarantees at least 3 episodes, that's enough for a mini series, or if you stretch each victim out to two or three episodes you have a full Netflix season. Most of these TV serials about serial killers often pick serial killers with more than 10 body count at least to guarantee a full season too.
Whether they make movies or series about serial killers isnt gonna be a deciding factor to if someone, who wants to murder people for their own joy, does or doesnt actually do those things.
@@JamezMorrizProjectz but his victims loved ones aren't. Ryan Murphy reached out to them but they declined any involvement and help to make this series
@jordanxkun You don't understand at all. It being a case study precisely means we have to study the factors that made Dahmer what he turned into, but we don't have to be put into his perspective to do so. That's what differs a case study from a character study.
what I hated a lot was people were BLAMING Tony Hughes for his death bc he went back for his keys. He was going to die anyway when he came back after he left for the weekend. It wasn't his fault, it never was any of the victim's fault.
First, this is not what happened in reality, Tony was drugged on the night he was killed. Second, there are a lot of trolls judging real victims that unlived tragically? This’s why this kind of biography shouldn’t happen in the first place
@@isobellam5557 Thank you for the clarification, I was going off by the show and unfortunately had to hear weird people blaming Tony when he died. I do wish this show wasn't made. Even Peters did do an amazing job in the role, but it costed him his mental health and the same people who made the show just released a show about the Menendez brothers, so they obviously didn't learn their lesson in not to trash the victims
Dahmer himself has said that there is no reason he killed, he is just evil and he can’t stop it. Start the show with an interview of him saying that, and use the rest of the show to ACCURATELY portray the events, something they REALLY didn’t do.
To be clear, I know that Dahmer was in no way, shape, or form a good person. What he did was horrific. However, he was a human being with a childhood and skewed brain development. He was a deeply mentally unwell man, and this show did that fact justice. In most cases if someone is able to call themselves evil, they are not truly evil, just very deeply mentally ill.
@@alexklair5397 mentally ill, that's why he was smart enough not to take medictations for it, because they purposely turn people into sexless lifeless zombies.. he was smart, he knew what he was doing, it was pain & extreme pleasure for him, he wasn't insane, just acted on his impulses and obtained a form of power. All those famous serial killers did it because they loved it, I wouldn't go blaming mental illness.. but that's why they create forms of most pharmaceutical drugs by targeting their sex drives to stop people from doing such things.. it all connects..
I knew a girl in highschool so deeply obsessed with Dahmer she has to switch schools because they were so concerned. She bought identical glasses, had him as her background on her phone and SCHOOL ISSUED ipad, and even went as far as changing her last name on facebook to it. We live in an area not far from where he was from and ugh to think the horrors were so real to people so close to us and she still couldn't see how disgusting it was to put him on a pedestal... I genuinely can't imagine how bad it'd get for people further removed. Hell I went to school in Milwaukee and I know people who live there to this day fangirling over spots of his to visit. Get a grip, people.
People have an unhealthy fascination with serial killers. But really, serial killers are more often than not just losers who turned really wrong. Just because serial killing is something most people are incapable of doesn't make it cool. Unfortunately, some just get drawn by that 'predator' aspect which is supposedly edgy & cool when really it mostly shows up in sad broken people who need to make others miserable just so they're not the only ones.
People like that need mental help. This group of girls in my school obsessed over the Columbine killers. They were all ugly and most likely just wanted to be edgy to get attention but I seriously thought they would kill us someday.
I find it really disturbing that so many people on social media have been feeling sympathy for Jeffrey Dahmer and not his victims. I even saw a video from one woman who stated that she felt sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer. 🤦🏿♀️
what’s crazy is the scenes reenacting the horrific events before the victims’ deaths. imagine being the mother of one of these victims and seeing in detail the absolute atrocities enacted on your baby. my heart goes out to each and every surviving victim of that man.
@@bakedpotato7254they could’ve come across parts of it on the internet though. Point being, depicting how real people died for entertainment is awful and shouldn’t have been done. People have absolutely attempted and/ or succeeded in sending photos of parts of the show or clips of it to the families. Some of them have almost certainly seen it without intending to.
@@aggroblu9753I disagree. While it's sad, you can, when done properly, honor victims. The Zodiac film was an example because they went into shocking detail for accuracy of the murders because it's the artistic equivalent of respect because it forces audiences to experience what the witnesses felt, creating empathy.
@@ryanellis2502 I just disagree with the sentiment. I feel victims are honored more when there aren’t shows made named after their killers, especially shows that try to give humanity and understanding for their killers. Nobody knows the victims names but everyone knows they killer, so why do we need shows that revolve around the killer and not the victims? Because it won’t sell. It’s not about honoring victims, it’s about feeding people’s morbid curiosity and a cash grab with a big/ controversial name. I don’t feel this show was done properly, and I don’t believe in depth death scenes of victims after talking about the killer’s life is respectful. It would have been an interesting/ good show if it wasn’t based on real life events, but the whole time I was watching it I felt uncomfortable wondering what they were even trying to do because it didn’t feel respectful and watching real people be murdered isn’t entertaining for me.
As a criminology student who works with victims of crime, I can't help but think of the victims. Thinking about the victim's families having everyone and your mother watching and rewatching the reenactment of your loved one's death is traumatizing.
Yeah, I never really like retellings of real life events or something inspired by real life events having any sort of positive light or trying to understand the perpetrator or saying "if x didn't happen, they wouldn't have done this" or things like that. I remember people were all over this show saying how this murderer is so cute or "aww he's proof there's evil in our society" is not how criminals should EVER be looked at. Having to hear about how a TV show about someone that hurt you and the ones you know so dearly be seen in even the slightest of light would be traumatizing for anyone and would probably make them relive the trauma over and over again. I was a victim of child grooming and being told by people "it wasn't a big deal" or "he didn't do anything wrong" and other things to try to sympathize with the criminals is not okay.
I find it fascinatingly morbid to see these kinds of things. I don't disregard the victims, but it is critical to understand how these people come to be. That said, I would agree it is sad that it is merely a profit oriented venture. Netflix doesn't care about the victims. It cares about viewers and profits. In this manner Dahmer was better than Netflix. Dahmer didn't do what he did for money, or views. Dahmer was seeking connection. Not in a good way, but that was still what he sought. How can society become more inclusive to help eliminate the occurrence of people like Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy... etc...
As criminal psychologist, let me give you some piece of advice; you can´t think like that. The perpetrator is not a "monster" and the victims/survivors are not "omg, poor them". Everybody is just people and a subject of study. Period.
@@stuffilike12 i mean i understand that when doing that as a job you have to be objective and cant let your emotions corrupt your work but this kind of makes you sound devoid of empathy for the victims
I have single handedly seen more than 5 people wearing yellow aviators now since Dahmer came out, and saying quotes from the show. They really did turn him into a pop icon... I bet the dahmer victims' family loved Halloween this year
Quite literally. Noticed that after watching the entire thing, I personally enjoyed it and thats when I realized how ironic it was. It literally romanticized him in every way while all the victims were thrown to the side. They didn't even get a memorial but dahmer has media throughout the years still getting recognition. He won't be forgotten, and they won't forget.
Those are some stupid looking glasses by the way. Makes anyone look like a rapist. In fact, Johnlajoie made a parody many years ago calling them just that "rapist glasses"
@@sneakymilkman4203 exactly this, he was being used in Rap songs for years already by diffrent artists. Juice WRLD even mentions him in a couple of his songs. and he died years before the show came out "Bandit" is the song im talking about
if they wanted to do justice to the victims while showing how fucked up this dude was, why not do every episode like Silenced. have each episode follow a victim and get us attached then have us experience the grief of losing them to this character. have us hate him, not rave over
The first episode was about tracy..2nd was about konrake.they mostly focused on how twisted he was..Mannequin,J**king off at a fair,tasting blood..If you think showing this is glamorizing him I don't know what it means then actually..Dahmer showed red flags throughout his life..his parents were too scared to find out the truth until he became the monster.I don't know why it is difficult to understand.
@@ns1208 bro you don't know how sick some people are if you think all those disgusting things shown in the show would stop them from glamourising and romanticizing him.
@@BigMoney398 then that's their problem?? The show isn't meant to teach them moral..It showed how things happened. How we comprehend is totally our concern..Not for a moment I thought Dahmer was charismatic.Evan managed to make him look how disgusting,powerless he was to his own thoughts..I absolutely loved Evan's portrayal.
My heart breaks knowing that Tracy Edwards' life ended up going down hill after Dahmer's arrest. It angers me knowing that Dahmer's victims didn't survive with Tracy Edwards. It angers me that Dahmer could have avoided this path but chose not to. And it angers me that the victims suffered so much because of Dahmer. I love your videos Meep, I agree with all your commentary. Remember the victims; June 18, 1978: Steven Hicks, 18 November 20, 1987: Steven Tuomi, 24 January 16, 1987: Jamie Doxtator, 14 March 24, 1988: Richard Guerrero, 25 March 25, 1989: Anthony Sears, 26 May 20, 1990: Raymond Smith (also went by "Ricky Beeks"), 33 June 1990: Edward W. Smith, 28 September 1990: Ernest Miller, 22 September 24, 1990: David C. Thomas, 23 February 18, 1991: Curtis Straughter, 18 April 7, 1991: Errol Lindsey, 19 May 24, 1991: Anthony "Tony" Hughes, 31 May 27, 1991: Konerak Sinthasomphone, 14 June 30, 1991: Matt Turner, 20 July 5, 1991: Jeremiah Weinberger, 23 July 15, 1991: Oliver Lacy, 23 July 19, 1991: Joseph Bradehoft, 25 And of course, July 22, 1991: Tracy Edwards
@@Jacson_23 The sad reality of our hypocritical world is that the only actual purpose of entertainment shows is to make as much money for the producers as possible. The "possibility criterion" varies depending on a lot of factors, including social acceptance. Any additional artistic or perhaps even socio-cultural value of a given TV or Hollywood production is mostly just a byproduct.
The fact that Ryan Murphy released a statement explaining that they tried to reach out to 20+ family members of the victims of Dahmer and none responded…so then he and everyone else on production just decided to make the show anyway, tells you everything you need to know about that man’s character.
@TheDarkerKnight this is so recent in history many of the victims families are still alive and have to live with this trauma for the rest of their life. Their loved ones were denied justice due to systemic racism, homophobia, and poverty. These victims were people with dreams and families. Their families shouldn’t have to be reminded of their death on repeat and watch the person that murdered their loved one be sensationalized. Many people don’t know the names of Dahmers victims yet we all know Dahmer. He doesn’t need to be sensationalized we all know the story.
I’ll never forget the first time I saw Rita Isbell, who screamed and threatened Dahmer in court for the murder of her brother. Her pain and fury was more captivating, utterly heartbreaking, and more powerful than anything this show could produce. To know they threw that trauma back in her face and all the other victims of Dahmer with little to no regards for them is horrid.
Their first mistake was making a Dahmer show at all. It's so messed up. Imagine if someone you love is killed, and years later they make a show about their murderer.
I don't see a real issue there. Because movies like 22nd July make a great job to be authentic and deliver an immersive experience and tell the story of these tragic events. Why is it messed up to make shows depicting horrifying events for us to make them understand?
@@Dreamingroses93 "We don't need to understand this kind of stuff, he was just wicked". Man this sentence makes every criminal psychologist and psycholgist in general wicked. That's so American to say. Grow up, reality is cruel and we need to understand it. Your whiny "oh no bad thingmms no bad thimbs" attitude sickens me. Everything isn't rainbow and unicorns.
@@Blind_Hawk Why is this American thing to say?? Other non Americans would’ve shared same opinion. Utterly dumb unnecessary blight of a remark. I’m not American and this show is utterly unnecessary. I’ve studied Dahmer during my legal studies class in high school. This show was so unneeded and even less educational and less sympathetic towards actual victims whose concerns around this show were totally disregarded for the sake of entertainment.
If they were going to take all these artistic liberties with the case of Dahmer, could they not have just written a story based on it? Then, you can be as creative as you want with your story and not retraumatise the families of victims. Yeah, you can't plaster the name on all the marketing, but that's a pretty fair price to pay to not exploit actual murder victims.
@@kingsugoyt Didn't the video mention Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was inspired by a real life murderer but didn't use any of the real life subject matter and still manage to have an huge impact?
@@blutygar Because at the time, what was there even remotely close to Texas Chainsaa Massacre?? It was a cultural phenomenon because there was nothing quite like it. Nowadays, you have a serial killer and a slasher film for just about everything you can think of. We aren't as sheltered and innocent anymore, so in order to really strike somewhere that leaves us scared and disturbed, you have to dig deep. Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm a horror fanatic-
Honestly David Fincher has done true crime projects with so much class and taste, whilst being as respectful to the victims as possible. Mindhunter and The Zodiac were excellent
Well what this guy failed to inform you of, was the book. It's about John Douglas, not the serial killers. Never was. It's not heroic, it's accurate. Same with ressler s books. Ann's books. This isn't a new genre it just got a new audience
Cuz of his looks, even though his average if he was ugly af they would be grossed out, you think they would write about a boss mafia killer in wattpad if they aren't hot? Looks always matter smh
Not only did the creators blatantly disregard the wishes of the victim's families, but as you have said the show still put its spotlight on dahmer despite the showrunners trying to say otherwise. The only depiction of Jeffrey Dahmers story that actually encapsulates what the show claims to have tried to do, and in my opinion succeeds at doing so, is Derf Backderf's "My Friend Dahmer". All his research and accounts are accurate, and makes it very clear his understanding and empathy is gone by the time he makes the decision to kill. In fact, that is where the story ends. No going farther to display gore and sensationalize the brutal murders, but instead leaving off the story where it is. Throughout the book he constantly questions "where are the adults? where are the people that are supposed to intervene?" as he depicts their shared childhood. This to me better puts the thought of societal history and responsibility onto us, to try and be better, while still holding dahmer accountable for his actions the older he gets, and when he ultimately takes his first victim.
So what? Its an insteresting character deserving to be explored, just because of the real person the character was based on being a piece of shit, doesnt mean the character is not interesting.
@@mariohurtado4275 no it does not deserve to be explored. He’s been talked about ad nauseam already just leave it alone, he’s not an interesting man. He was a piece of human garbage, end of story, now you can watch whatever you want to. I’m not your mama but I’m just telling you the facts.
@@mariohurtado4275”interesting character” bruh he’s not fictional this happened and it shouldn’t have been made into a dramatised spectacle that was clearly just made to be a product for shareholders
I wish true crime shows like this would focus on the victims like “Silenced” did. They are the ones who deserve to have their story told, they’re the ones who deserve to have their stories live on. Not the monsters who cut those lives short.
Exactly. The victims in the show felt like we were witnessing a deer being born and going through life before being hunted. Sympathy for the victims came in the form of the neighbor woman attaching her name to everything for a paycheck.
My problem with Dahmer is how Netflix was blatantly marketing him as some kind of sex icon. It is disturbing enough that people romanticize fictional psychopaths like Christian Grey or the Joker, but doing so with a real murderer who killed real people is a whole other level of wrong.
People don't romanticize the joker in any way. Have you ever seen Joker 2019? I don't even know how you can come away with that conclusion unless you are ideologically driven.
I don't think that happened. I never once saw any promotional material or anything like that that indicated that Dahmer was supposed to be a sexy person. His crimes were sexual in the sense that he brought people back to his house with the intent of having sex with them and then murdering them, but I wouldn't count that as being considered "sexy" in any way. Joker 2019 has absolutely never been a sex icon. They explicitly show him in the movie as creepy, mentally disturbed, and completely out of touch with women. Christian Grey was marketed as a sex icon, but that's only because the franchise he was in was supposed to be a twisted female fantasy. I do think it was a little fucked that netflix put the LGBT tag on Dahmer tho😭
As someone who literally knows one of victim’s family members. (He’s and old neighbor of mine) I can tell you this show is disgusting and absolutely horrible for disrespecting family wishes and making them live through their trauma.
They literally reached out to the families, the families responded saying they didn't want the show to be made, and they went completely against those wishes and did it anyway. I didn't know this until I had started the show, but stopped watching as soon as I heard that. Its so disrespectful.
Serial killers should go down in history as something evil, something you aspire to stay away from, they should be the targets of brutal mockery,hatred and disgust but instead they get this.
...u think people are supporting his actions based off of this. I mean everyone I have ever spoken to has taken a shit all over him. Who are u interacting with. It's a fucking Netflix drama that shows how shitty he was and how even tho you have a bad past it doesn't excuse how u treat others in the present. I don't think a lot of people think critically
@@Aldranor people have always had weird fetishes for guys like Dahmer. It's not common, you'll probably never meet someone like that in person, I doubt they even leave their mother's basement. But they definitely exist, one thing the show did manage to get right is people needlessly glorifying him, fantasizing him, etc.
people at my school were head over heels for this dahmer. people even dressed up as him for halloween. THEY DRESSED UP AS AND WERE ATTRACTED TO JEFFERY DAHMER AND SAW NOTHING WRONG WITH IT
They could’ve done every episode based on a victim getting us to know this person and then showing the awful way Dahmer ended their lives like in episode 6, also I know it’s not a major thing but Dahmer didn’t wear glasses during the trial because he didn’t want to see the victims he was a coward and a monster. I feel terrible for the victims families having their trauma be replayed like that and profited off, no compensation no warning just bam series released and a bunch of girls fawning in how hot Dahmer is
He wasn’t a coward lol you gotta have nuts to sit there and dismember people and when he was murdered he just took it because he knew he deserved it he didn’t cry or beg for mercy
I remember having the same question when I found out Dahmer had a netflix adaptation. Before this, I already heard about his story in a lot of youtuble channels that covers true crimes or dark and mysterious stuff. I think I learned about the full detail of his story in Infographic's show's videos about him, and that was years before this series was made. When I found out Dahmer was getting a netflix series about his life and then it suddenly went viral, I can't help but wonder why. I mean... who is the show even is for? I know the full details of his crimes, and if you ask me, I don't think what he did deserved to be adapted in any form of artistic media. If it was a documentary, then I would've been fine with it. but no... they actually put a lot of effort into it, make it seem dramatic and artistic and so intriguing... like... why? If it was an adaptation of a fictional story, I'd get it. But no... this is a real crime, a real tragedy, a real story.
Long story short: money. They were told by victims families' NOT to do this, yet they did it anyway, and I can't help but assume they did it for monetary gain considering how popular all types of true crime media are.
Evan Peters is horribly typecasted it's so embarrassing because in my honest opinion he's not that good at crazy, he's just good at being weird. I wanna see him in more roles like his one on the office 😭
The difference between Joker and Dahmer is that one if clearly fiction. Joker can excuse it's attempts to make the audience understand and sympathize because it is entirely fiction and a cautionary tale of sorts. Dahmer on the other hand depicts real world violence that happened and trying to make the audience understand and humanize a man who killed REAL people and ruined the lives of REAL FAMILIES, makes it wrong. They should've done a show inspired by Dahmer and just done a character study with a fictional character. They clearly wanted to do that from the beginning, and it seemed like the portrayal actual effects on the victims and their families was an afterthought.
The problem is you glamourize & connect with character like joker but when a real person is like that you feel disgusted..I felt Dexter was kinda inspired by Dahmer
Dahmer wasn’t trying to make people understand why he killed I watched the show already and I never felt that’s what the show was trying to do the only time I felt sympathy towards him was when they showed his upbringing it was honestly heartbreaking it doesn’t excuse any of the disgusting things he’s done though.
@@Damienp3902 exactly. What I wished they do is to focus more on the victims. Since more than half of them weren't even in the show at all. I even saw someone say the show was meant to honour the victims but honestly after watching, it clearly wasn't.
The fact that they reached out to the victims’ families only to get no response really should have been a sign that this series should never have been made.
They didn't reach out to ask for permission, they reached out to ask them for their input on the story. How did he think they'd feel? I don't think he really cares at the end of the day. I think he was just ticking off a box of the gestures that need to be made to justify what he's doing, which is exploiting their sons and brothers for his financial gain.
That's why fictional killer stories will always be superior. Like with Hannibal, you can enjoy his cooking scenes, you can like his charisma. And you don't need to feel bad becuase it's all made up.
Fictional tragedy is powerful because it reflects our reality in a way that is approachable. It hurts and it resonates with our own lives and experiences and what we see out in the world around us, but it's art and it has layers to it that we can dissect because it's not a real person were trying to understand, it's a fictional character written as a metaphor, with intent and purpose, by a writer who has a plan and a message woven into the characters very existence. That can't be said for real people. It's just so utterly immoral to pretend a real person is the same as a fictional character. Fictional characters are reflections of US, we should be worried about respecting them as mirrors of real humans, not worried about people flagrantly dismissing real people as if they and their actions were fun little adventures for their entertainment. It's sickening.
Exactly. And while Buffalo Bill is inspired by a real life killer (suspected as, but not proven in court, serial killer Ed Gein) people remember Hannibal more than they do Buffalo Bill, minus the quote of course.
I have been saying this for a while. I'm glad to at least see i'm not the only one who thinks people should feel bad for consuming the tragedy of others for the sake of entertainment. many horror youtubers i once respected have gone down this route. also some of it feels very fear mongery, i literally heard one youtuber try to use peoples paranoia to market raycon earbuds "awareness mode" . like omfg that is so trashy. also people who are that paranoid end up being the most dangerous. like these stories are outliers yet people will treat it like a check box for profiling folks.
The absolute worst thing about this show is the disrespect shown to victim’s families. Their permissions weren’t considered necessary, which sickens me. If they had and if it still got green lit, it wouldn’t have been as controversial as it stands now. It’s still an important piece, in my opinion. It highlighted the dangers of negligence in parenting, the hardships that African Americans faced back then and the importance of self-awareness we may even lack today, by future’s hindsight.
I mean yes but at same time a lot of there information is published or been publicly released. This is common for shows to do they don't often go to the families for permission cause it's a show not a recreation so no need for there permission. I do agree it is sad that they did that
@@FakedPvp TBH that just makes it all the more reason NOT to make the show. Everybody and their mother knows about the case. It's time to let the victims rest and leave their families alone.
@edittzz4175but they will be affected by the “fans” of this show posting it everywhere and reminding them on social media day after day of the worst moments of their lives.
@EdittZz People shouldn't have to essentially isolate themselves just to avoid getting triggered over and over. Plus it's not that simple. If you had a family member murdered, somebody made a show to profit off the tragedy, and didn't ask for your permission, even if you avoided social media you'd be pissed about it.
I don't know about other people who created this show, but I don't think that Ryan Murphy deserves the benefit of the doubt regarding his respect for the victims, because of his history with American Horror Story. Throughout the show, he constantly takes horrible people from history and romanticizes them, or mythologizes them, or turns them into enticing figures, or exploits their crimes for shock value, sometimes all of the above. La Laurie in Coven, a whole ensemble of serial killers (including Dahmer) in Hotel, portrayed as a fun hangout group that meets once every year, the one with Richard Ramirez with superpowers, and much more. The moment I saw he was doing a Dahmer TV show, I exactly knew what's going on. Exploiting terrifying real life events for clout is after all his thing at this point.
As you already know from the AHS videos, I'll be one of the first to criticize the exploitative nature of a lot of Murphy's work. When I say I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, I didn't mean that his approach should be immune to negative backlash. Rather that I want to believe that, while often misguided, his intent is not malicious. Call me naive but, for as much as I detest some of what he does creatively, I don't want to believe Ryan Murphy is a mustache twirling villain who looks at these events and says "Yes, this is perfect! Now I can exploit these people's suffering for money and attention!" I genuinely believe that, in his mind, he sees exploiting the taboo in his wildly successful series format as an avenue to make his audience contend with the horrors of the world and promote societal change. Do I think he's successful at achieving that? No, not personally. I think his creative and stylistic approach completely truncates any of his intentions, and I obviously believe that's worth being negatively critical of (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to make this video). But, you might be right. Maybe he really does do all this purely for fame and money. Maybe he just says all this "respect for the victims" stuff for PR reasons, or to personally justify his actions. Which would be a really, really sad revelation and would make me lose a little bit of faith in art and humanity lmao. So I choose to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe more for my own sanity than Ryan Murphy's reputation.
I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Since the Dahmer uproar, I’ve been rewatching AHS and it’s turned into and entire case study on Ryan Murphy for these reasons. I don’t believe it’s a conscious, malicious intent, but it’s a big problem.
i love ahs but this aspect of the show has always made me deeply uncomfortable. there’s a shocking amount of real life serial killers portrayed in the show in such a disrespectful way i have to skip over most of the scenes that include them. coven and 1984 were the worst for it imo and the scene in hotel was just disturbing
Silenced was a real hit in the gut. Like you I completely forgot I was watching Dahmer, and by the time I was reminded, it was just crushing. If they would have given the other victims such a perspective, it wouldn’t have been such an exploitative/controversial series I believe.
i stopped watching the show after this episode. it was just too much man. felt horrible after i finished it and probably won't be going back to watch more
From a artistic standpoint, I thought it was great how you forgot it was actually the Dahmer show until about 20 mins in then they're in the bar and a blurry image of Dahmer sat at the bar becomes more focussed. Like its the representation of this evil focussing its attention on the victim and entering his life. Like the victim had been selected and now everything was going to ruined. But you're right, it was really the only episode to focus on the life of a victim pre-Dahmer.
from a filmmakers perspective, you're right, it would've definitely lessened the exploitative feel the show has, but the truth is, it was always rooted in exploitation. they continued to create the show despite having 0 permission from every single one of the families. it was bound to happen, since the families have been exploited since the case was popularized. we never needed more shows/documentaries, all they do is reduce dahmer to a "character" and only harm the people they claim to "care about" and "respect".
I didn’t watch this show so I can’t comment on it. But imagine being a family member sitting down after work to watch something on Netflix and this pops up. It makes me sick.
One of the worst sins this series committed, in my opinion, was the court room scene. The scene where it focused on Rita. In the show she was calm collected, until the end. But in reality, she got angry, fast. To the point she had to be restrained.
There’s a video online that shows the real life court footage of Rita on top of the court scene from the show with the actress, and it’s nearly identical. The only difference is that the real Rita was genuinely angry, because it genuinely happened to her real brother; Whereas the actress was simply that, an Actor. She didn’t go through those events and thus didn’t have the real emotions that the real Rita felt. . So the differences between the show and reality are mostly just from the fact it was an actor merely trying to portray something that really happened.
@@johnnyrocket1685no, it instead feels like they think poc are "crazy" for experiencing strong emotions so they portrayed rita in the show as "calm and collected" rather than being fucking angry that her brother was killed and the man who did it got away with it
@@johnnyrocket1685Yes, it made the reenactment of the justifiable outrage seem like a comedy and meant to provoke hilarity. IT IS NOT FUNNY, IT IS NOT ENTERTAINMENT, IT IS NOT COMEDY, IT IS NOT A JOKE.
It's very upsetting to hear them talk about working so hard to respect the victims but failed to contact their families about making this. E: b/c this is a hot topic. I didn't say try, I said failed. Ryan Murphy said he reached out to 20 ppl, but there are also victims saying they were completely blindsided. His word against theirs. They could both be telling the truth who knows. Ryan has motive to lie (protect his show) and the victims really don't. Believe what you want, but there are no reciepts. Yes it's legal, public record yada yada but I was expressing disgust that they were bragging about respecting the victims while simultaneously retraumatizing their families.
That's like having a specific white girl on Twitter trying to "Protect" The Black Community despite multiple black people asking her to stop but refusing anyways
@@brownmonke1155 that’s not the point. The point is, if they were serious about respect they would have at least asked for consent simply as a formality.
@@theredknight9314 oh, well to be fair I don’t really care about that either. It’s a documentary like anything else. It’s like getting mad at a 9/11 movie or a world war 2 movie. There is still people who have family members that didn’t survive 9/11. Do they got to ask them to create a movie about that for respect?
And there is also the hollywood fetish around how dangerously deep an actor can get into a character like this the same way it happened with Joker since Ledger. I think it could be one of the reasons why the show got lost in it's own premisse of 'not focusing on Dahmer's perspective' and ended up with half the series showing Dahmer for the sake of Evan Peters' performance.
I hate how people always think evil people only got that way because they have a sad backstory. Almost everyone has a hard life. Not only does it not lead to evil, it can make you a better person. He was evil because he chose to be. Plain and simple.
This reminds me of a Reddit post where the OP was heavily bullying an autistic kid because he was abused at home, and wanted to inflict his pain and suffering on others. At some point, the autistic kid killed himself to escape the bullying.
That is true, but we cannot ignore the trend where extremely traumatic circumstances (especially during childhood) are the common link among almost every perpetrator of a heinous crime. Not everyone who faces intense trauma becomes a serial killer, but almost every serial killer has such a backstory. This in no way should justify ones actions, but definitely explain them. As a society, we can demonise these people (rightfully, of course) but in order to prevent more people from turning like this I think it is necessary to address that root cause.
Just hearing about this show and how they went about it absolutely disgusted me. The fact that they didn't ask the family members of the victims permission is completely shameful. Edit: Even if they did ask, since they didn't get any permissions, they should've called it quits right then and there.
Tbh I don't think that the families of the victims would have greenlit the portrayal. Not all of them, at least. It's understandable. If their loved ones are gone, they want them to be remembered for the people that they are, not for this PoS waste of a person.
I think something very telling is how Dahmer’s younger self is played by an actual child actor but the victim Konerak Sinthasomphone a 14 year old child, was depicted by an actor who was 20 years old.
@@shufflesaurus2666 I mean, it’s very easy to alter a scene to make it metaphorical. A competent writer can show instead of telling. Also that’s not the point. The creative team made an executive choice to not depict the victim as a child and lessens Dahmer’s horrors as a pedophile.
Young adult actors are typically the ones cast as teens because of the legal issues involved with using actual teen actors. Everyone on Glee was in their 20s, everyone on Euphoria is in their 20s... it's not anything specific to this show. It's made apparent in the scene that the "character" is a 14 year old.
I loved "Silenced" episode... But there is also two problematic stuffs about it: A lot of people started to "ship" Tony with Jeff, and rooting for them being together and having thoughts like "it could be different..." "he could have changed Jeff..." "oh poor Jeff he was just scared to be abadonned again...". And, one of the things that the series forgot to mention, is that Tony was the first victim of the experiment of the "lobotomy sex slave fettish".... Yes, Tony could NOT save Jeff!!! And I guess that his family is brokenhearted to read those things about Tony right now... It is a goddamn wellwritten episode... in a sense, it was refreshing to se the point of view of a minority: a gay black and deaf man, and a wonderfull kid and human being in a true crime series... But with what cost? Changing those facts, that he was the first lobotomy victim, that Tony "could have changed the monster into a prince" thing like a Beauty and the Beast fairy tale... I think that is not fair... this also could be used to imply that really, he just was using Tony in the fisrt place, and the fact that Tony was his first attempt of a so called "zombie", should not be ommited...
@@elisabethfotso727 Yeah, in the "Victims" Session here on wikipedia it make it clear that it was Errol the first attempt of lobotomy, Tony was the second. I guess that the netflix documentary was too brief about Errol being the first attempt.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
Sorry but this idea that if someone is bad they will be bad forever is just wrong. There are plenty of people who have been in and out of prison and managed to turn their lives around.
The fact that people place than on Tony, too, almost like a responsibility, is disgusting. No one is responsible for Dahmer's actions but himself, and portraying it like he was just scared of being abandoned or as if one of his victims could've "changed him" is so wrong.
I feel bad for even watching the show. The first time I heard the line about “the story can’t be told from Dahmer’s perspective” I just thought… but that’s exactly what you did. They humanized a monster.
My issue with the Netflix shows on Dahmer revolves around a troubling theme. They often portray him as an atypical serial killer, downplaying his sadistic nature and highlighting his longing for companionship. The show subtly attribute his murderous tendencies to his past abandonment issues, excusing his actions to some extent. This portrayal is highly problematic and sets a dangerous precedent. While antihero protagonists have become prevalent in television, dramatizing a real-life serial killer like Dahmer is a different matter. It's like making a romantic comedy about Hitler, blurring the line between sympathetic humanization and exploitative glorification. Despite any personal grievances or psychological explanations, Dahmer was a sociopathic murderer who brutally took the lives of 17 innocent men. Loneliness and childhood trauma cannot justify or mitigate such heinous acts. The apologetic tone of these shows, framing Dahmer as a misunderstood individual in need of treatment, undermines the gravity of his crimes. He was fully aware of his actions, driven by an inner urge to control and dehumanize others. After being found legally sane, there should be no room for excuses or sympathy for a man with blood on his hands and a freezer full of mutilated remains. Yet, due to the over-objectivity of these Netflix releases, Dahmer sympathizers continue to emerge even three decades later.
Giving an explanation for how his brain got fucked isn't a way of being apologetic. "How did he end up this way?" "Because XY&Z" "Wow, defend him why don't you." See how ridiculous that sounds? Probably not.
@@tripptank Giving an explanation for how his brain got fucked isn't necessarily apologetics. But 'giving an explanation' is not a neutral act. Framing is very, very important, as the original commenter said. It's not depicting the events that's the problem, it's how. "Because XY&Z" isn't as simple as it looks. "How did he end up this way?" "A substantial part of it was his abusive circumstances, but also he was found legally sane and knew his actions were morally wrong. There are far more abuse victims who do not go on to murder and eat people, so it was not the full cause, there was something else, but such extreme circumstances likely did affect him. Even so, it doesn't excuse his despicable actions." "I see." The above is a more accurate conversation. On the flipside, an answer of "He made some mistakes because he didn't have the same morals as everyone else, because he was lonely and was hurt a lot as a kid" would much more likely be answered with "Wow, defend him why don't you", because the explanation, while perhaps somewhat accurate, is very misleading and kind to Dahmer, ignoring and downplaying the severity of the actions. Just like the difference between a documentary which actually focuses on the victims vs focusing on the murderer, which uses plenty of cinematography (and even the premise) to paint him as sympathetic. As one example, showing a character go through something we wouldn't enjoy almost always elicits empathy from the audience, so showing him getting bullied and abused sets the stage for an underdog that the audience wants to defend. We as people don't like seeing others get hurt. That alone is sympathetic/empathetic in a show where the main character is hurt. If you want an account of Dahmer's life or reasonings behind it, read a scientific paper or an academic book. Don't go to a cinematised drama version of it, because there is far more to it than "Because XY&Z" than one might notice at a glance.
@midnight4685 "Giving an explanation isn't a neutral act." The factor making it neutral or not is the explainers intentions. Which other than your own interpretation of the show, you have no way of knowing, since the framing you mentioned is precived by half the viewers including myself, to be UNfavorable to Dahmer. So much so that your second paragraph is exactly how I would actually summarize the show. While your third blatantly ignores the many times characters including dahmer himself asked what is wrong with him. And needing someone to spoon feed you the idea that the moments of abuse they showed, were there because they happened, and not as vindication, shouldn't be necessary. It happened, and people being idiots is not a valid reason to leave out details of a story. How long do you think it would take me to find a scientific paper or academic book defending him? How possible do you think it would be to make a historically accurate cinamatized version? There are many ways to tell a story and give information. Don't assume the message based on the medium.
@@tripptank Certain media will always affect a message though, that is unavoidable. Intentions do not dictate what comes out, just like how a person can intend to be nice and say something hurtful. A documentary may be informative, it's not to say that no piece of video media can be informative, but a drama focused on a bad person as a main character is not neutrally informative, because dramas develop a bond between the audience and their main characters. The point of a drama is to elicit emotion from the viewer, which is not part of the quest for 'why is this person so messed up'. By showing more of the killer's perspective, it will humanise him more than other characters. You also might have misunderstood my point with the discussions; that format is a text discussion, where word choice is what communicates morals and opinion. It is an analogy, not exactly the same as the show. Because in cinema, even if the base story fits the first example, if the 'word choice' of the show, word choice being the cinematography, paints a nicer picture, then it comes out like the second discussion. If I said the first piece while rolling my eyes and making air quotes with my fingers the whole time, people would react just as negatively. If you like, consider that the analogy for the cinematography. Even if the story is the same as the words in the first discussion, if the structure of the show itself is conveying clear disdain through signals, it's not going to be taken seriously. If you were to look for a scientific book or paper that was determining what led him to those acts, you would most likely not find one that use almost any moral framing at all, not showing him as good or bad. They would have a far greater chance to be neutral because they would be conveying points rather than using descriptive language to elicit sympathy. Just to check, I googled different papers related to Dahmer and all of the ones related to the psychology are as clinical and cold as you would expect them to be. None of them humanise him at all. But drama isn't the only medium that would cause a problem, like how a novel with Dahmer as the main character would likely be just as flawed for reasons below (though at least it could have an unreliable narrator). I think the crux of the issue is the focus on Dahmer. Because by framing the narrative from his point of view, we get to see far more of him than we do the victims. That will inevitably lead to sympathy due to the audience witnessing more moments of humanity that an audience can relate to and cherrypick rather than spending that time humanising the victims. Even in the most evil characters in fiction, people relate to them and sympathise with them, because people can see snippets that they can relate to: being sad, being bullied, being tired or even just seeing the emotions that he feels, that always elicits empathy in humans. Every non-sociopath recognises, even at a subconscious level, "Oh, I've felt sad, feeling sad sucks, I don't want that guy to feel sad" because that's basic human empathy. Hell, people can relate to asking themselves what's wrong with them, that is something that a huge amount of people have been asked. We don't get to have moments of relatability for the victims if their only roles in the show are based around the murderer. The murderer is inherently humanised if the audience sees human parts in the murderer to relate to. That's just a function of the brain, it's not spoonfeeding or immature, it's like why we see cats and dogs as cute, empathy is unavoidable. It's why if you look up fans of Dahmer the real man, they cherrypick the cute human parts they can relate to. That he's gay, or that he looks like other harmless characters they recognise, or whatever they impose on him. By showing more moments of him, it gives the audience more moments to cherrypick, consciously or not, and their brains find empathy for those cherrypicked parts. But there just aren't those moments for the victims. So even if this show conveyed a perfectly factual message, it would deliver a completely wrong emotional message due to its focus on Dahmer - but that emotional message is an inherent part of the medium of drama and the whole point of the issue online. Dramas are entertaining because of investment in the characters. Investment in characters stems from recognising the humanity and snippets of relatability. The medium does genuinely get in the way of the show here, that's why people are annoyed. P.S. But if you can give me a single drama that is similar to Dahmer in that it was about a real, vaguely-recent, horrific crime and has the villain as a main character while managing to not humanise them, I would check it out and change my stance.
when he said roughly “this story does best not when using the victims to to tell dahmer’s story but when using dahmer to tell the victims story” that totally summed up how i felt about it. i felt the same way about tony too, when i caught myself beginning to love tony i felt so heartbroken when i remembered where this was going… tony’s storyline definitely made me cry and i continued to tear up when the victims’ stories were being told
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
@@iknowexactlywhoyouare8701 people keep talking about it because we dont want to see it happen again. if people kick up enough fuss maybe next time a producer will think twice before creating an unnecessarily warped recreation of a real and unbelievable tragedy. it would be terrible if other producers decided to follow suit of this series and make super dramatized versions of other awful cases where the families involved are still around and being affected to this day.
@@just_.b. That's not how business works, sadly. These producers have profited from the show precisely because these reviews and such won't shut up about it. It's free publicity. If anything this will encourage another show or season to be made.
To be fair, having a fictional villain being inspired by real life evil people isn’t always a bad thing. Case in point, Freddy Krueger was based on Dennis Rader and he’s kind of similar to Albert Fish. But because Wes Craven had class, he didn’t make Freddy into a copy of Fish or Rader, and he made damn sure not to make him even the slightest bit sympathetic. Ryan Murphy, on the other hand, seems to have a raging hard-on for losers like Dahmer, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. I mean, this is the same guy who made Richard Ramirez into a slasher movie villain in AHS: 84. Really tasteful, Ryan.
@@cashthecurator666 Are you literally fucking kidding? Are you going to set here, bold face with full little chest and pretend Cravens didnt write Kruger to be a likable villain? Is this a joke? Im being punked, right? You understand when Kruger kills *WE ALL ROOT FOR IT* right? Omfg just sticking your whole fist up your ass and yanking out whatever and smearing it on the keyboard for arguments sake i see.
Well yes, most good villains are inspired. I agree with this. Tate is not a good villain, he's honestly just weird and cringe mixed with violent crime and incel. Oh, and grape and child from grape. Not a good villain, simply provocation for provocation's sake. No hate to the actor tho
I found that the arty and poetic cinematography etc really conveyed why dahmer did what he did. It was a kind of transcendental, ritualistic, intoxicating and hypnotic experience for him. If you're already enamoured with dahmer or highly cognizant of the fact that other people are, it's probably going to precondition you to think that these scenes were mythologizing dahmer or portraying him adoringly.
I’m in high-school. The show ‘Dahmer’ is apart of an underlying issue in true crime media where they characterize these people to the point they are infantilized in some ways and sexualized in others. I’ve seen this in a few other shows or series, most notably being ‘Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile’ which is a piece of media about Ted Bundy overviewing the public opinion and view of him. I watched the entire show with my sister and I couldn’t help but feel slightly disturbed at how they depicted a serial killer in such a horribly endearing demeanor. It was like they were wanting you to feel some sort of sympathy just to hit you with shock factor at the end. ‘Dahmer’ uses a lot of these methods in the way that they infantilize and fictionalize this real person who has done horrific acts of violence. They do the exact same thing in most pieces of true crime. The reason I felt it important to mention that I am in high-school is how vile children act about these real people who have done real things. I have seen people point out people look like Dahmer, I have seen people make jokes to me about eating people because of my name. You can’t walk a minute in the halls without hearing the name ‘Dahmer’ used as some sort of insult or some confusing compliment among true crime ‘Fans’ It’s strange that people had such a reaction to the show. Overall, my opinion about the show is that it’s horrible. If it was a piece of fiction, if it as based off of these crimes and adapted into a piece of fiction, if it was handled better then it would be fine. Instead, they treated it as if it was these things although it wasn’t. They chose to have a message that is completely hypocritical to what is actually happening. In short; I hate it.
My take on the Ted Bundy movie is that it puts the viewer into a sense of paranoia and wonder at the end of the movie similar to how others around him thought of him and his personality. In my opinion, it sympathizes him in a way where the viewer is left confused and betrayed much like how the general (moral) public reacted to the real evidence and his confession to committing over 40 murders, speculated to be more. I don't think this is a bad way of showing sympathy, but it's also easy to imagine why others think of it in another way. its hard to explain
As a young adult you got the right mindset my man, keep it, run with it, expand it, guard it and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise when it comes to seeing underlying issues with things like these. Be safe out there💪🏾
i was in highschool in the town where they filmed part of that show (never watched it and didnt keep up so idk exactly how much was filmed there, but i remember a few seperate times things were blocked off or theyd film inside someones house and that kid would talk abt it at school or whatever) and i remember just kinda feeling weird abt how excited everyone was abt like them using our town to glorify a serial killer? which is part of why i never watched it btw someone's probably gonna try to say im lying or that wasnt true or sth, but like it was. idk why i would make that up lmfao
ur a smart guy man, I bet you feel a little out of place at school. U don't seem to be ignorant like the rest of ur peers. U see things for what they truly are. I agree, Dahmer is a terrible show. I was not too fond of it from the second it was announced. Kids in college act the same way towards it. Girls fangirling over him, people dressed up as Dahmer during Halloween parties, and somehow he pops into every conversation. I thought it was all disgusting. I hate true crime and movies and shows that are extremely gory and disturbing. I just don't think people should watch that kind of stuff. If u watch too much of it, I feel like you can go crazy yourself or you become desensitized to it, and its no longer that disturbing. I think this also causes paranoia and people start becoming more suspicious of one another. I mean, everyone has the ability to kill another human. By watching these kind of shows you may become very suspicious of everyone around you that you meet... its just not good for our mental health to watch this kind of stuff. People with anxiety, depression, or anything like that should stay away from media like this. It will only make them more paranoid. But somehow.. those kind of people seem to enjoy this show the most. Very strange.
I loved the episode Silenced, because it gave me what the series' description promised: the victim's point of view. It was interesting and gave a perspective into what life was like for that specific person, but the rest of the series should've also focused on the victims' lives before Dahmer took it from them. I think this series had potential with the social commentary, but it also focused too much on the murderer, who has been portrayed a lot in both fiction and documentaries. It could've been interesting (and probably more welcomed by the victims' families) to show how these people were in their everyday lives, and stayed more true to reality. We already have documentaries focusing on the crimes and the criminal, but not enough on the people who were affected by them.
This is especially true when you consider that serial killers do what they do because they do not see other people as people. To make the serial killer the main character is exactly what a serial killer wants, and ties into the entire reason why they kill. Most of them WANT to be famous for killing people. Netflix making him the main character and then claiming to be about telling the victims' stories is so glaringly contradictory. Taking the time to show how he was bullied as a child etc. is so infuriating because it is effectively irrelevant to the reason why someone becomes a murderer. Serial killers from birth have a part of their brain missing - sure they need to ALSO have bad childhoods to actually become one. It's so misleading to show all of that stuff as if becoming a murderer is the natural conclusion, like millions of people around the world don't also have childhood trauma. I don't think anyone should attempt to humanise that POS as a matter of principle.
Same! From the entire series I only enjoyed and loved that part. Whenever they showed little glimpses into the lives of other victims, I really wanted those scenes to last longer. I also liked the scenes after Dahmer's arrest which showed how the families of the victims suffered - both from the loss of their loved ones and through the constant harassment of Dahmer's fans, racists and sadistic people. It shed light on the general society's lack of empathy and seriousness towards the people affected by heinous crimes. Had I watched this series when my true crime obsession had just begun, I wouldn't have liked these parts. I would have obsessed over Dahmer's portrayal. Initially, I used to love descriptions given by the media that humanises criminals. But soon, I began feeling very exhausted by them. I began watching content that only humanises the victims and to this day I watch only that. I don't understand how many people are able to consume sugarcoated description after description of serial killers without feeling exhausted.
This video sums up my exact opinion on the show. Creative liberties in the true crime genre just never seem to fit, both artistically and morally. The fact that this show became so popular not only highlights our societies morbid curiosity, but also tells me society will continue to produce people like Dahmer.
It may be morbid curiosity but it’s also natural for humans to want to know how things happened. Even disturbing things like this. And there have always been ppl like Dahmer. They’re just now being exposed and caught more. And ppl don’t become serial killers and cannibals because of a tv series. They become that way from bad genetics and child abuse.
@@coolcat6303 I never said TV series produce serial killers or that this was a new phenomena of the human race. I also never said it wasn't a natural curiosity. I was speaking to the tone-deaf nature of the show and society, in a general sense.
this is also like the 5th show/movie made about dahmer. if people actually cared about the victims there would be only 1 victim-centered documentary with little/no dramatization. but money comes before morals i guess.
Guys, we do care about the victims but let’s face the truth - the victims are not near interesting enough to warrant an entire show based on their life. They tried to do this with Ted Bundy and showcase his victims but it was not that good.
@@brianmeen2158 That's the sick sh!t about this: why do you WANT to hear about a serial killer's life? What kind of misery porn are the people tuning in to watch that sort of show GOING FOR, again? I watch documentaries: dry facts, interviews with the people who worked on the case, victim profiles, how they got lured. None of these hard truths need to make sickos be glorified and mythologized and sympathetic. They're monsters and that's it. There is no value to the scum of the earth except maybe as vague plot inspiration for horror movies or games-- where their identity is all sanded out and they're never given the adulation and glory they wanted.
@@brianmeen2158 “guys, we do care, BUT …” It’s that “but” that screams otherwise. Reread your comment and see where your train of thought is all jacked. “Oh I care, BUT …” as if it’s the victims fault somehow. So … create yet _another_ movie and yet _another_ show about a guy who honestly doesn’t deserve the spotlight more than those he victimized solely because their life was “boring”? That’s fucked up and feeds right into this shit as it justifies the continuation of victimizing the victims again and again for “but muh entertainment tho” as if it’s some Saturday night chill flick to pop on and soak up as if it’s no biggie. That’s the real issue here. These are real victims with real families. These are real deaths … not some entertainment quick fix.
Not at all. He was deplorable, knowing he is and was and being thankful that he got what was coming to him in prison is why the show was at all satisfying to most.
Just because there are a few ppl, out there, who idolize a serial killer doesn’t mean the tv series is bad. It just means those ppl are weird. They are also in the minority. 99% of the ppl, that watch this show, are intelligent and will be as just as repulsed as anyone else by Dahmer’s actions. Society also can’t function if we constantly worry about some weak minded person getting the wrong idea from it. There will always be bad apples.
I’ll never understand people like you who take it on as like some bizarre personal mission to fight against true crime media and make people who consume it feel bad for doing so. Like bruh💀😂 You’ve got no moral duty or right to try to make them “see the truth” or something. Holier than thou type mf lol
@@coolcat6303 The problem is the show trying to make you sympathize for the killer, also romanticizing everything. There's always going to be gullible/stupid teenagers, but that's only because the show is at fault.
Episode six ("Silenced") is *excellent*. If you're feeling a kind of empathy for Jeffrey Dahmer as the series goes on, as a kind of tragic figure which might be true to some extent, the scene where he donates to the family's effort to find Tony will powerfully remind you of what an absolute monster he really was. I found myself saying out loud, "you know what you did, piece of shit".
Most people feel sorry for his fucked up childhood. No one feels sorry for the adult dahmmer. If he were to be raised by real people and taken care of maybe he would have had a different fate.
It was all manufactured for the show that shld piss u off it didn't happen imagine being a parent of a victim and the show shows a loving relationship between ur son and his killer that never happened
@@BillyBoot-z3gd Ahmet did try to seduce these men so you seeing love is wrong there was no love just lust besides I feel bad for kid danger maybe if his dad took more time to understand or maybe if we had better understanding of mental health none of this monsters actions would’ve happened
If they didn't get a response from the families then that is a NO. If you don't get a "Yes" then it is a "No". Someone online who is family to one of the victim's shared the letter online. In the letter they said they were going to make the show to give justice to the victim's stories. That they were going to not focus on Dahmer. They completely ignored that. I'd also like to mention that the polaroids in the first episode are, allegedly, the real ones. When I saw them, I instantly recognized them. Even if they recreated them, it would be problematic that they looked at this real person's disfigured body and recreated that. Dahmer is not okay because it is about and takes creative liberties on the real person. If this was fictional, that would be great. Why couldn't they have just made a fictional show and a fictional character based off of the real deal? I would have been okay if it was fictional. But using actual or recreating actual polaroids? I will be embraisened to say fuck this show. I can not support it.
Look, Dahmer and his victims died about 20 years ago, okay? In reality, Netflix doesn't need anyone's permission to make the show and they can certainly use as much creative license as they want. The show never tells the audience that everything is an accurate retelling of the story and frankly why would they? This is why the show has an age restriction, because any functioning adult can do some critical thinking and realize that this is a series... with actors. And their being filmed and reading lines and such, all written and directed by professionals. No series or movie, no matter how accurate or fictional, could ever bring "justice" to anyone from this case, ESPECIALLY if it had more of a focus on them than Dahmer. And about the polaroids, again, we are all adults here and this is a series about a serial killer so... who cares? Their are worse "true stories" being told constantly about people no one cares about, so no one complains but all of a sudden everyone cares about "the victims families" when the only thing they know about them is from Netflix or Twitter. This is a Netflix show not a documentary, it doesn't need support.
@@moonknight6088 I agree mostly and how do all the people saying it would be ok if it was a fictional show based on dahmer even come to think that? It would be the same exact thing and could make the families of the victims feel the same exact way but I guess then the people who say that can feel ok watching it and not have to worry about being shamed for liking a show. When I watched the first episode I basically got close to feeling like how someone in that situation probably felt like and I think that can be a very important thing for people to experience so those victims didn’t only die for Jeffrey dahmers enjoyment, their deaths could help thousands of people become empathetic to another human being when maybe they didn’t feel that before because of abuse or trauma they lived through. Could stop a future dahmer. You won’t get that by making something not entertaining or maybe not about a real person.
@@moonknight6088 don’t u have some compassion for the victims family’s? Yeah, obviously Netflix doesn’t necessarily need to ask anyone’s permission on anything but that’s real people’s families who they are dealing with. As a company you can’t just say who cares, that happened long ago and move on,thats not humane and must have been incredibly traumatizing for them, so either u leave the victim’s families alone or create a piece of media that does not exploit the community’s trauma (with their support of course)
It's just like Don't Fuck With Cats, where at the end it was revealed that the killer's main goal was to be infamous and well known and at the end of the show, they basically say "by watching this, you're realizing his goal." Um, actually, by making a fucking documentary on it, you're realizing his goal.
Dahmer's goal was definitely NOT to become infamous. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. I've read his father's autobiography, he was the opposite of an attention-seeker.
It's more like both. We're all culpable when we give these things views. You could also not have watched and diminish the overall appetite for it. Shame or disown it. You could have done those things but you didn't. We're all culpable when we enjoy true crime for entertainment purposes.
I never watched the show (and I don’t plan to) but, your part about episode 6 being the best, makes me wonder if it would have been better if that was the show. If it was an anthology. With each episode focusing on the victim, their life, families, dreams, aspirations, etc., up to when they interact with Dahmer. While still exploitative, it at least shifts the focus from Dahmer and makes it more about the victims and shows the actual tragedy of these crimes; Young innocent lives cut short.
I actually really loved how they focused very heavily on the konerak's and how the murder affects racism and homophobia, the repercussions of dahmers actions and how it affected a community. I thought those last few episodes were really well done, whereas the beginning we were seeing things from dahmer's pov, by the end we were seeing things through the eyes of an asian immigrant family and the families of the victims and the people in the community.
My 11 year old sister said she had a classmate who dressed up as dahmer for Halloween spirit week at her school. No words. Just disappointment. Just hopelessness.
Exactly....no matter how evil you want to portray a bad character, when you make them a central character people will always find a way to relate to them. Find ways to justify things they've done
Justify. No Looking for possible explanations as why someone turns out like thst. Yes. Básics of psychology. Your cirscuntances mold your behaviour. What are potential triggers for some people to end up like dahmer?
@@ViDeToolit's all about taste and respect.You can make a respectful and neutral documentary and not many ppl will watch or you can make a sensationalised show with your own spin on real events.
as a black man, and one with very close ties to friends in the lgbtqia+ community, i refused to watch this show. they just exemplify the public obsession with the worst kind of human. it shows the killer in the light of sympathy, and nobody bothers talking about the people genuinely hurt. i hope true crime takes a look at the public reaction and trys to stray away from glorifying the people that are supposed to be the villains
people in the true crime community and true crime media itself has proven time and time again that they do not care about our lives, lgbt and poc victims are only unfortunate stepping stones to a juicy story in their eyes.
This! I refuse to watch it, and haven’t been using Netflix even tho it’s not my subscription, I’m so over them and medias hard on regarding pain and suffering rather than honesty, empathy and accountability
Absolutely! There's a scene in the show where one of the victims sisters screams at him in court. The actual woman said when watching the show, they stole what she said word for word, outfit too brand by brand so much that she initially didn't realize it wasn't a recording of her. She had no idea they were going to do it either
Go watch Mindhunter, it’s a masterpiece and I’m still gutted they had to stop at season 2. It’s such pure work of art because it’s actually trying to tell you something about the human psyche, and also based on a book and how the FBI were understanding these monsters that walk among us. It has a purpose and David Fincher has always been a master with true crime. Especially with his work on The Zodiac.
It's weird that they said they wanted to respect the victims but ignore the families when they said not to make it and didn't consent to it. Like, what a lie. They just want money at this point. They don't care about the victims or the families.
@@dlilwon no shit Sherlock....... Like I said, he knew that getting Evan Peters to play it people would fall in love. Why else do you think people fell in love with sociopath tate langdon?
@thedarkerknight2188 but the families that have lost loved ones probably don’t want to be reminded of the horrible person that stole their family member away. The true crime community is known for being shitty towards the actual victims.
Probably because for most serial killers the act of killing is almost a euphoria that most normal people would relate to sex. The show isn't supposed to make you comfortable.
@@lxmesoda The victims families dont own the right to public events. Their "allowance" means less then fuck all. All they can do is not watch it. Thats as far as their rights reach. Most of them weren't talking to their murdered family member at the time for being gay, anyways. They abandoned them. Almost all of his victims were categorized as "homeless" or "couch surfing", thats why he targeted them, he knew it would be a safer kill.... But suddeny here comes the poor FaMilY with the big big boohoos. The 14 year old literally had been homeless for a soilid year and was grossly underweight, his family wouldnt let him step foot in the house.
Genuinely, I feel like, if a killer was recent enough that their victims and their loved ones are still alive, you should not fictionalize the events, it's gross pure and simple. This is a big problem I have with Ryan Murphy, he did it with the Nightstalker, all it does is glorify these people and spit in the faces of the ones they hurt. If they want to make fake events and humanize the killer then make up a fake killer, period, there is no saving grace, this is exploitation. They can't even pretend it's for awareness or art, Dahmer is one of the most well known criminals of all time because the media still glorifies him, the events are fictionalized and there is no message to be had, no one needs to understand Dahmer that isn't training in profiling or psychology and again, these events are fake so all this did was re-traumatize these people and make Dahmer a fetishized idol for twisted people again.
Oh I hated the Nightstalker storyline so much. He was used as a B plot to prop up his boring protagonist while real victims of his did unfortuntely were murdered.
I will defend the show in that nothing they showed made Dahmer understandable. It’s common sense not to understand anything he did and be horrified and disgusted for killing those people. What exactly did they do in the show to make him understandable?
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
@@whoknowswhocares885 Making the show centered around him, showing a backstory, basically creating a narrative like "This is what created the monster", also the whole thing I saw in this video(did not watch the series because I think it's exploitation) acting like he had this relationship and might rehabilitate because of one of his victims. All of this stuff is fiction, that was a real person, the victims were real but they're making up this backstory and, whether intended or not, it serves to humanize someone that should just be left to fade from the collective memory but no, we keep getting stuff like this that is nothing but disrespectful to the victims and their loved ones so they can cash in on a real tragedy and turn it into fiction for entertainment. There is no defense, nothing positive came from this and nothing positive will come from any other Dahmer shows at this point.
@@mismismism You didn’t watch the show and yet made an opinion without any context? Your taking this at face value? They showed his upbringing and the circumstances which set up his beginning to be a murderer, they never made anyone understand him or what he did. The only explanation that can be concluded was that he wanted to kill because he figured no one would care. Nothing he did was responsible and no one except people as crazy as him can find that understandable because most people are born with common sense. I would say this show cared more about presenting the trauma he left on the families of his victims more then other past documentaries about Dahmer. That is something many of the shows and movies failed to do, make people understand others suffered because they lost loved ones at his hands. I get the families disapproval of this show, but depiction of the trauma left by a serial killer is necessary, it shows he made others suffer and he shouldn’t be worshipped for it. The ones who are, are in a minority that the public does their best to suppress because it’s common sense not to feed crazy people more influence to be more crazy. This show made you see that regardless of the innocent people he came upon there was nothing that made reason for him to kill them aside from his sick obsession. It wasn’t just murders of random people. But people with lives personality and families. Even if that love story is fictional and they do humanize him, it isn’t to wipe him clean of murdering people with the hope that he could rehabilitate, it’s to show that Dahmer although horrible was human and he blended in as human. It was to horrify the audience because it showed how much of a monster he was, he could bring innocent people at ease and all he wanted in the end was to kill and disregard everything else about them.
I feel so sorry for families. Who have to relive it all over, each time a Film, or Documentary. Comes out about him. The focus is all about him, not the victims, and the families.
I have never watched the show, but it has affected me, people have compared me to Jeffrey Dahmer because we have a similar appearance. I have dealt with my own mental health issues in the past and being compared to a serial killer doesn't help.
Literally mood. I wear aviator glasses, have an 80s aesthetic, and have an interest in anatomy, physiology, and dissection. I kind of just have been existing as some odd guy all my life, with the odd true crime fan going “Dahmer? Omg you’re Dahmer!” and we have a laugh (as I’m a true crime fan myself, but more casually than some of these weirdos), but now it’s like a LOT more people and many of these people are a lot more intense about it and like, I’m just some guy trying to go about my life???? Leave me alone?????? I’m out here just trying to buy milk, fam…
I’m blonde and have been told by multiple strangers that I look like dahmer. I take it as a compliment, because most people think of Evan Peters when they think of Dahmer. Who doesn’t want to look like Evan Peters?
Lol that's the only way I would subscribe back to Netflix, regardless yeah it shouldn't have been made because Netflix has already done a great job of documentary of many serial killers like Dahmer, Gacey and Bundy.
I just wonder who in their right mind would think, “We should create a show about Jeffery Dahmer.” And the crazy part is the fact that people actually like it
@@ireneedmonds4712 She asked for the scene/show to not exist. Sometimes a story really doesn't need to be told when it'll do far more harm than good, especially when the owner of the story is telling you not to.
Worst part for me was when the show tried to take a turn into social commentary. You don't dig up a story that was this overused, overexploited, where the families were tormetend because everyone kept talking about it and profiting off of it, MAKE ANOTHER SHOW ABOUT IT, filming it like it's any big budget movie and THEN act like you have any right to make it a social commentary on the events and on how terrible it was that everyone kept jumping on the train. Like the fucking lack of self awareness my god.
They probably didn't give us much background on Tracey, the guy who escaped Dahmer, because he had a criminal record, and ironically enough went on to be a murderer himself. So idk what they could've done to flesh out his character anymore than they did without 1. Down playing his crimes/ignoring them or 2. Telling the truth, and letting the majority of people who don't know, know what he did. I think either way it would've made his character worse in the show since it's supposedly a sympathetic showing of his victims, and that would make me most feel less sympathetic towards him. However that's just this one case for this one victim. I understand why the other victims are mad.
@@opalminx8240 I mean they did at least give us some more back story with that whole family. If I remember correctly we didn't hear back from Tracey the rest of the show lmao. But they could've done more with that story, I agree on that.
@@mechanomics2649 it wasn't just after. He had a criminal record prior to Dahmer. Had they brought up Tracey's backstory, they woulda had to bring that up, and that wouldn't be a good look for the show as it paints Tracey out as a criminal, instead of a victim. So in his case, I think it was best they started and stopped his story where they did. Media woulda ate the directors ass if they put that shit out there on top of all the other fuck ups this shows managed to pull off lol. But the only reason I bring up Tracey specifically, is because the creator of the video asked about why they didn't give him more back story. However, I don't know much about the other victims, but I'm sure there was PLENTY they coulda done with them. So I can understand why people are a little upset about that part.
@@dlilwon many serial killers were handsome, however the show shouldn't have emphasized it so much. Usually a show like this should emphasize the ugliness of the charector's actions.
I'm not done with the video yet so idk if he's gonna mention it but Jeffrey Dahmer is one of the most adapted real life serial killer stories I've ever witnessed. There are already so many other movies and books detailing his life. I didn't really understand why he needed yet another publication of his atrocities, but seeing that the intention was more towards the victims, I guess I can understand. But still, if they really wanted to shift the focus entirely to the victims, they shouldn't have called it Dahmer and marketed it the way they did.
Silence of the Lambs kind of proves the point that to understand Dahmer means to be Dahmer. Hannibal guides Clarice throughout her case because he himself is a cannibalistic murderer. In a sense, every comment he makes about the killer is a comment on himself: "Garden variety manic depression" that's how he feels about his own state of mind- that both humanizes him and proves that he has no idea that he's actually diagnosing himself. A story like Silence of the Lambs would be a great way to write the Dahmer story through the lense of someone else without making it sound like every story ever told about Dahmer...
@@sentientbeing8738 you can get an elementarily vague concept of what they are, but that's about it. People assume just because they've considered something they understand the concept... That's dumb. If people truly understood it, then they share the blame of the crimes for not intervening. They don't... At all. A tiny glimpse and a total understanding aren't synonymous. Most are fascinated with murderers because most people have imagined killing some shitty person in their life... Far fewer have walked in that world. Like it or not, it does take one to know one. Otherwise it's just some armchair commentator projecting their assumptions based on what they believe they would've acted like in an alternate reality.
@@thetruthisonlyperspective4872 Emotions and also the lack of are complex but they are able to be understood, you can find reasons behind actions. Psychologists do it all the time. To varying degrees of course, some are better than others. "If people truly understood it, then they share the blame of the crimes for not intervening." The hell does this mean? Are you implying understanding of why bad actions are done means you can stop it? Hahaha. No.
@@sentientbeing8738 what don't you understand? Either you're a killer and you understand or you are only making assumptions. I shouldn't need to dumb it down to this extent, even in the internet.
@@thetruthisonlyperspective4872 And that way of thinking is silly. I should have expected arrogance from you based on your edgy and pathetic username lmao. Also it seems you were the one unable to understand ME. Its very obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that me saying "The hell does this mean?" was in reference to your blame sharing comment. Please never type again.
I knowwww. It didn’t have to end with no resolution and shouldn’t have and now for the rest of time it’ll never have an ending. And the tragically funny part of this is that it’s also a Netflix Original and yet they couldn’t let it run it’s course, but THIS thing gets allowed to get made.
@@da3m0nic_79 Netflix greenlit the show for more seasons and it was popular. the problem is the actors contracts expired and i don't think all of them were renewed.
In fairness, the parents of the Children murdered in the Atlanta Child Murders didn't okay them covering that situation either. So, as much as it portrays everything in a much better way than Dahmer, it's guilty of the same thing.
@@carnuatusBut they didn't glorify anything. They made it seem horrifying as it was and they rightfully pointed out that Wayne Williams was probably not responsible for ALL of the deaths.
I think the show mirrors the experience of someone invested in true crime. first, you come for the gruesome parts. you start to humanize the murderer, become interested in his childhood. you might avoid the victims' perspective for a bit but once you whatched every dahmer interview and read every biography, you satrt to wonder about the victims and the community dahmer's crimes affected. and finally you reach the conclusion that there cannot be a reason and you have to keep yourself from thinking about dahmer. I liked the part where you said that in order to understand someone like dahmer, you have to become him. and that is pointless at best. and so is this show: it's not the perspective of dahmer, his father, the victims nor their families. it's ryan murphy's experience of his own dahmer fascination phase
and I feel like this is exactly what we should get out of it. who made this and why? I guess that is what the video is asking, but character analysis on Ryan Murphy are too few and far between imo. He very much comes off as someone who's actually expressing himself through his art rather than some kind of genius at framing other stories through it.
my brother watched the series and was horrified by it. however, i had to remind him several times that this was an actual serial killer and the victims were actual people. i said several times that he should really just... watch a documentary if he wanted to learn about dahmer. not some super dramatized tv show about a twisted horror character with a half fabricated story.
In my opinion, I thought the first episode was really good. Really engaging and really made feel terrified for the victim who could potentially be Dahmer's next murder victim and really had a grip on me. But as I continued the series, it made me feel that the show was trying to have us understand why Dahmer became who he was and have a sense of pity and around ep 5 was when I gave up because I was turned off. The victims felt more like plot devices to Dahmer's big story which is kinda disrespectful. They are not Dahmer's stepping stones. They were actual human beings who had lives and purposes in this world.
Good for you. I'm sure the world clapped and cheered at your bravery Why bother to watch a show when you were just on your phone the whole time anyways on the internet? You just waste your time
I did not feel as if this show tried to show pity for Dahmer. That is on YOU if you feel the slightest bit of sympathy. I did not feel sympathy at all, I just saw a monster who destroyed his victims' lives and their families.
I cried for hours and hours after watching it. Especially the death of the deaf man, it was so painful to even think about. So many bright, kind, and beautiful people ripped away from loving families. I’m not a hateful person but… I Hate that freak of human history. I’m glad the other Inmate got a hold of him and gave him a brutal and horrific end.
Im sorry there's so many sociopath in your comments section, u right im really sad for the family and felt bad for all of them How can she's pathetic when what she saying is showing empathy for the VICTIM
I refuse to watch it because of how immoral the making of this show is. The way they really just spat in the face of the victims and their families... this whole thing feels so wrong. But am I surprised? Not at all... I am very much interested in true crime, I watch a lot of documentaries, true crimes shows that recount aweful stories in a respectful way and to bring awareness, and just criminology papers and research in general. But this was such a wrong move from them...
This show is really not that different from any other true crime documentary, still all ultimately about finding entertainment in the suffering of real life people, still about the creators making a profit off of that suffering, sure some frame the stories in a way that are more "respectful" of the victims than others, but they are all doing the same thing regardless, they are all very close to the same level in terms of immorality.
@@jpeg204 I think it's important to at least get the permission from the family members of the victims before making a show or movie about the events that affected them
Sorry but I have yet to find a true crime series that wasn't just exploitation via reliving all the lurid details of a real crime, to satisfy people's morbid curiosity. It's nothing new, and I won't pretend like I haven't indulged, but people need to be honest with themselves. It's ALL exploiting others' suffering
@@Hrybread honestly i agree, from horror movies based on real life events to youtube channels talking about certain cases. It's all exploitative no matter which way you look at it. I remember becoming sick after seeing that a museum had an exhibit of Ted Bundy's car, it's like they are treating him like he's some type of artist or something.
@@Hrybread The only "true crime" I've ever heard of that was done right are the coverages by Ask A Mortician for the tragedy that inspired Moby Dick, and the sinking of the Fitzgerald which actually had her VISIT the memorial museum about it and meet family, and talked about the ethics of diving to explore the shipwreck and the living relatives' opinion about it.
When asking “who is this made for?”. I think one has to look at what the series is. How it is framed, how it’s told and so on. And in this case, to me it is unquestionably a horror series.
i couldn't watch dahmer because one time, i wanted to read about how the police were so negligent on the case...and i unfortunately stumbled on a blog that showed what the police saw....and the actual photos...it was so horrifying and disgusting knowing that this was just available to be seen for everyone. i really cannot imagine the pain the victims' families must be going through
@@bigdigs2233I’m so sorry we’re not as cool and brave as you so as to enjoy seeing gore of real life murder victims. I guess we can’t all be as cool as you
@@bigdigs2233 Reading comprehension? The post your replied to said they were horrified and disgusted of the fact that the photos were made public. Not how they personally reacted to the photos.
For a better, more considered series about a real-life serial killer, I’d definitely recommend Des, a three-part drama from the UK about Dennis Nilssen, a murderer who has a lot of similarities to Jeffrey Dahmer. It starts as Nilssen is arrested and IIRC doesn’t flash back, so none of the crimes are shown. The detectives and victims are the focus, with Nilssen having a minor role and being shown as very manipulative and arrogant. He’s played absolutely brilliantly by David Tennant and is a very vivid character, but there’s no attempt to explain away his actions and he’s as hateful and abhorrent as his crimes. There’s an absolutely heartbreaking scene where a man Dennis sexually abused speaks out in court that has stayed with me for a very long time. It’s written by Jeff Pope, who does a lot of true crime dramas in the UK, but seems to work with the victims’ families as much as possible and his shows are often as sensitive and ethical as a true crime drama can be.
Was also going to mention this. I think British productions about real serial killers generally tend to be better. The film with Richard Attenborough and John Hurt, 10 Rillington Place is great too, as are See No Evil (Moors Murders) and Appropriate Adult (Fred and Rose West). They depict the murderers as humans but evil, whereas I think the US productions tend to be too dramatic and try to humanize the murderers but in a way that is too simplistic which just makes them sympathetic rather than depicting the complexity of human evil. You see this issue with fictional villains too, they try to make them "complex" but often it's just simplistic sympathetic origins, which show no real understanding.
Yeah, as much as I like Dahmer the series, I do consider Des a better drama. It is also extremely cerebral. Which I don't think mainstream/Netflix viewers would necessarily appreciate...
@@MidnightIsolde Not actually watched the others you mentioned but 10, Rillington Place was certainly great. Truly chilling and depressing, as it should have been.
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
@@iknowexactlywhoyouare8701 Yes we are at the point where every youtuber with NO experiences whatsoever in theater or movies industry is thinking he's a good film critic. While basically expressing their political beliefs.
Being born and raised only 40 minute's away from Milwaukee. I refused to watch this show. This still affects the locals to this day and the victims family's. Growing up it wasnt too uncommon to know someone who either lived near by or even meet the guy. Its not a good feeling knowing that absolute monster was so close. We dont want this and its absolutely disgusting how sensationalized he's become. We stand with the victims and their families.
@@aaronuzcategui287 Morality is a luxury for those who spend their lives sheltered. This is for entertaiment. They can talk about 911 and the work of ISIS and paint them in good light and it'll still be okay because "MORALS" is a pansy's right.
I mean if your seeing stuff that you don’t like , maybe you look away? Or maybe you keep looking at it maybe even watch it . Lmao brainless. I’m obviously not discrediting the victims feeling but come on dude 😐 ARE YOU GONNA STARE AT THE SUN OR LOOK AWAY ?
What disgusts me the most about the Dahmer series is the fangirls that flocked to the show. I won't deny that serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy (the ones I can name off the top of my head) did have fangirls whilst they were alive and even after they had been convicted and sentenced for their crimes. However, there's something odd about getting a man like Evan Peters (a man that has many fangirls on TikTok predominantly) to play a horrific serial killer in a Netflix series that really did not do the victims and their families justice. But maybe that's just me and my inability to fall in love with people who kill others.
The real young Jeffrey Dahmer was pretty good looking, and Evan Peters is one of the best and most experienced horror actors of this generation. Most famous actors and serial killers have fangirls. It's not weird that they cast him.
@@autumnatic Perhaps you're right, and Evan Peters did do a good job. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to play a serial killer, especially such a notorious and fucked up one such as Dahmer. However, I don't like how the show writers literally used Evan's good looks and his body for more "intimate" scenes, if you will (for example, when he was working out and we quite literally got shots of his upper abdomen.) The directors and the show writers knew what they were doing.
Hell, what shocked/frustrated me as a black person the most was the black men that were thirsting over this show when Dahmer would have unalived them, like what are we doing here 🥴
@@rhxenyand? Hollywood has a long history of equating ugliness to evil. While not the first movie to do so the Dahmer movie flips this on it's head. Terrible people can be beautiful.
I only ever watched the first episode. I felt really uncomfortable once I started thinking about the gravity and implications of a show like this. For starters, it already felt like I had stumbled upon something private that I shouldn’t be watching. Once I realized none of the families were on board with this, I never picked it up again. I just felt like doing so would be disrespectful to the people who ACTUALLY endured his terror.
I'm so glad you talked about Silenced. It marks the point where I decided that Dahmer was a bad show. I really liked the way the episode was going, but as I was watching it, I realized it was feeling a bit too...fabricated for me. I actually paused to go research the ACTUAL story of Tony and yeah, wasn't too happy with what I found. Why is their best episode the one that felt most fake? I feel like there's more to be said about that, but I am not clever enough to word it properly.
Before this series came out I found out years ago Jeffrey Dahmer was being loved by different people. Those type of people that send serial killers love letters while their in prison. This series just made more people realize those weird people exist that are obsessed with real life serial killers.
I find it super annoying that Hollywood regurgitates the same story of serial killers (Dahmer, Zodiac, Bundy, etc) add new info that we found out though the years, market it as “the true, real, untold, story of killer”. And does the usual Hollywood thing of making the killer photogenic, add “fluff” and sanitize other parts. But I think the worst part about all of this is that ,we the people, clap our hands and tell Hollywood that we want more of this, that we want the same story, we want hotter actors, we want to pay to dehumanize the already dead victims (and their families)
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember the victims.
Steven mark hicks, 18
Steven Walter Tuomi, 25
James Edward Doxtator, 14
Richard Guerrero, 22
Anthony Lee sears, 24
Raymond Lamont smith (Ricky Beeks) , 32
Edward Warren smith, 27
Ernest Marquez miller, 22
David Courtney Thomas, 22
Curtis Durrell Straughter , 17
Errol Lindsey, 19
Tony Anthony Hughes, 31
Konerak Sinthasomphone, 14
Matt Cleveland turner, 20
Jeremiah Benjamin Weinberger, 23
Oliver Joseph lacy
Joseph Arthur Bradehoft, 25
And the one who survived
Tracy Edwards
R.I.P.
May they rest in peace 🕊️
oliver joseph lacy, 24
Thank you, may their souls all find peace and rest
Rest in peace to the victims
The thing that annoys me the most is the fact that this kind of thing is EXACTLY what a lot of serial killers want. They want to be infamous. They want their names to be known and feared. And this show basically said to all those sick people who wish to have that; “yep, this exactly what you want so go right ahead!”. They don’t fear their horrible acts being frowned upon, but they desire to be known at large for it.
EDIT; for everyone who’s misunderstood me in the comments; this isn’t about Dahmer, the guys dead, it doesn’t matter what he wanted. No, this comment was clearly about the people who idolise serial killers and want their actions to go down in history.
No wonder they're called serial killers, killing three or more victims guarantees at least 3 episodes, that's enough for a mini series, or if you stretch each victim out to two or three episodes you have a full Netflix season. Most of these TV serials about serial killers often pick serial killers with more than 10 body count at least to guarantee a full season too.
Eh, that doesn't apply to Dahmer he wasn't the narcissistic type, just a crazy mofo
Whether they make movies or series about serial killers isnt gonna be a deciding factor to if someone, who wants to murder people for their own joy, does or doesnt actually do those things.
He’s dead. He’s not getting anything
@@JamezMorrizProjectz but his victims loved ones aren't. Ryan Murphy reached out to them but they declined any involvement and help to make this series
"Jeffrey Dahmer's life was a case study, not a character study." Perfect quote right there
Wrong.
No
When there is ‘a case’ this horrible, I think a thorough examination inherently also brings up many things, including a ‘character study’.
Case has been closed on the level of depravity which he sank into. That has been already shown openly by wilie coyote obsession with the roadrunner.
@jordanxkun You don't understand at all. It being a case study precisely means we have to study the factors that made Dahmer what he turned into, but we don't have to be put into his perspective to do so. That's what differs a case study from a character study.
what I hated a lot was people were BLAMING Tony Hughes for his death bc he went back for his keys. He was going to die anyway when he came back after he left for the weekend. It wasn't his fault, it never was any of the victim's fault.
Imagine blaming a deaf dead young man for dying.
First, this is not what happened in reality, Tony was drugged on the night he was killed. Second, there are a lot of trolls judging real victims that unlived tragically? This’s why this kind of biography shouldn’t happen in the first place
@@isobellam5557 NO kidding...
@@isobellam5557 Thank you for the clarification, I was going off by the show and unfortunately had to hear weird people blaming Tony when he died. I do wish this show wasn't made. Even Peters did do an amazing job in the role, but it costed him his mental health and the same people who made the show just released a show about the Menendez brothers, so they obviously didn't learn their lesson in not to trash the victims
@@Maw0 right like it wasn't his fault and yet people were mad at the victim and not the murderer
Dahmer himself has said that there is no reason he killed, he is just evil and he can’t stop it. Start the show with an interview of him saying that, and use the rest of the show to ACCURATELY portray the events, something they REALLY didn’t do.
Needed more re-enacting of interviews I agree.. but it starts really well.. just needed more prison interviews.m
To be clear, I know that Dahmer was in no way, shape, or form a good person. What he did was horrific. However, he was a human being with a childhood and skewed brain development. He was a deeply mentally unwell man, and this show did that fact justice. In most cases if someone is able to call themselves evil, they are not truly evil, just very deeply mentally ill.
@@alexklair5397 mentally ill, that's why he was smart enough not to take medictations for it, because they purposely turn people into sexless lifeless zombies.. he was smart, he knew what he was doing, it was pain & extreme pleasure for him, he wasn't insane, just acted on his impulses and obtained a form of power. All those famous serial killers did it because they loved it, I wouldn't go blaming mental illness.. but that's why they create forms of most pharmaceutical drugs by targeting their sex drives to stop people from doing such things.. it all connects..
This show is pretty accurate actually. They just combined Glenda and Pamela into one character.
Right
I knew a girl in highschool so deeply obsessed with Dahmer she has to switch schools because they were so concerned. She bought identical glasses, had him as her background on her phone and SCHOOL ISSUED ipad, and even went as far as changing her last name on facebook to it. We live in an area not far from where he was from and ugh to think the horrors were so real to people so close to us and she still couldn't see how disgusting it was to put him on a pedestal... I genuinely can't imagine how bad it'd get for people further removed. Hell I went to school in Milwaukee and I know people who live there to this day fangirling over spots of his to visit. Get a grip, people.
People have an unhealthy fascination with serial killers. But really, serial killers are more often than not just losers who turned really wrong. Just because serial killing is something most people are incapable of doesn't make it cool. Unfortunately, some just get drawn by that 'predator' aspect which is supposedly edgy & cool when really it mostly shows up in sad broken people who need to make others miserable just so they're not the only ones.
@@rubis5904 Not just serial killers. There’s A LOT of folk who love criminals because of how violent and awful they are.
Disgusting
People like that need mental help. This group of girls in my school obsessed over the Columbine killers. They were all ugly and most likely just wanted to be edgy to get attention but I seriously thought they would kill us someday.
This generation is awfull bro
I find it really disturbing that so many people on social media have been feeling sympathy for Jeffrey Dahmer and not his victims. I even saw a video from one woman who stated that she felt sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer. 🤦🏿♀️
We do because it was still a human being, that while as disturbed as he was, he was still human, just as much as the victims were.
@@TheN92 Yep
Who has sympathy for him but NOT his victims? You’re reaching, no one had this take. Stop
@@croissant87712 Up there you have an example of two people who have that mindset. Not a big number, yet a preoccupying one.
@@TheN92 so I’m supposed to sympathize with that POS as much as the innocent souls he killed
what’s crazy is the scenes reenacting the horrific events before the victims’ deaths. imagine being the mother of one of these victims and seeing in detail the absolute atrocities enacted on your baby. my heart goes out to each and every surviving victim of that man.
Parents of victims aren't watching it bro.
@@bakedpotato7254they could’ve come across parts of it on the internet though. Point being, depicting how real people died for entertainment is awful and shouldn’t have been done. People have absolutely attempted and/ or succeeded in sending photos of parts of the show or clips of it to the families. Some of them have almost certainly seen it without intending to.
@@aggroblu9753I disagree. While it's sad, you can, when done properly, honor victims. The Zodiac film was an example because they went into shocking detail for accuracy of the murders because it's the artistic equivalent of respect because it forces audiences to experience what the witnesses felt, creating empathy.
@@ryanellis2502 I just disagree with the sentiment. I feel victims are honored more when there aren’t shows made named after their killers, especially shows that try to give humanity and understanding for their killers. Nobody knows the victims names but everyone knows they killer, so why do we need shows that revolve around the killer and not the victims? Because it won’t sell. It’s not about honoring victims, it’s about feeding people’s morbid curiosity and a cash grab with a big/ controversial name. I don’t feel this show was done properly, and I don’t believe in depth death scenes of victims after talking about the killer’s life is respectful. It would have been an interesting/ good show if it wasn’t based on real life events, but the whole time I was watching it I felt uncomfortable wondering what they were even trying to do because it didn’t feel respectful and watching real people be murdered isn’t entertaining for me.
As a criminology student who works with victims of crime, I can't help but think of the victims. Thinking about the victim's families having everyone and your mother watching and rewatching the reenactment of your loved one's death is traumatizing.
Yeah, I never really like retellings of real life events or something inspired by real life events having any sort of positive light or trying to understand the perpetrator or saying "if x didn't happen, they wouldn't have done this" or things like that. I remember people were all over this show saying how this murderer is so cute or "aww he's proof there's evil in our society" is not how criminals should EVER be looked at. Having to hear about how a TV show about someone that hurt you and the ones you know so dearly be seen in even the slightest of light would be traumatizing for anyone and would probably make them relive the trauma over and over again. I was a victim of child grooming and being told by people "it wasn't a big deal" or "he didn't do anything wrong" and other things to try to sympathize with the criminals is not okay.
I find it fascinatingly morbid to see these kinds of things. I don't disregard the victims, but it is critical to understand how these people come to be. That said, I would agree it is sad that it is merely a profit oriented venture. Netflix doesn't care about the victims. It cares about viewers and profits. In this manner Dahmer was better than Netflix. Dahmer didn't do what he did for money, or views. Dahmer was seeking connection. Not in a good way, but that was still what he sought. How can society become more inclusive to help eliminate the occurrence of people like Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy... etc...
In all truth, if I ever had to experience what these families are going through, I wouldn't be able to handle it. I would just call it quits.
As criminal psychologist, let me give you some piece of advice; you can´t think like that. The perpetrator is not a "monster" and the victims/survivors are not "omg, poor them". Everybody is just people and a subject of study. Period.
@@stuffilike12 i mean i understand that when doing that as a job you have to be objective and cant let your emotions corrupt your work but this kind of makes you sound devoid of empathy for the victims
I have single handedly seen more than 5 people wearing yellow aviators now since Dahmer came out, and saying quotes from the show. They really did turn him into a pop icon... I bet the dahmer victims' family loved Halloween this year
Quite literally. Noticed that after watching the entire thing, I personally enjoyed it and thats when I realized how ironic it was. It literally romanticized him in every way while all the victims were thrown to the side. They didn't even get a memorial but dahmer has media throughout the years still getting recognition. He won't be forgotten, and they won't forget.
Those are some stupid looking glasses by the way. Makes anyone look like a rapist. In fact, Johnlajoie made a parody many years ago calling them just that "rapist glasses"
Whatever...
He’s been a pop icon since the murders, this just amplified it.
@@sneakymilkman4203 exactly this, he was being used in Rap songs for years already by diffrent artists. Juice WRLD even mentions him in a couple of his songs. and he died years before the show came out "Bandit" is the song im talking about
if they wanted to do justice to the victims while showing how fucked up this dude was, why not do every episode like Silenced. have each episode follow a victim and get us attached then have us experience the grief of losing them to this character. have us hate him, not rave over
That's what I said in my post. Just let him be the Michael Myers faceless killer who shows up and kills whichever victim that episode was following..
Exactly!
The first episode was about tracy..2nd was about konrake.they mostly focused on how twisted he was..Mannequin,J**king off at a fair,tasting blood..If you think showing this is glamorizing him I don't know what it means then actually..Dahmer showed red flags throughout his life..his parents were too scared to find out the truth until he became the monster.I don't know why it is difficult to understand.
@@ns1208 bro you don't know how sick some people are if you think all those disgusting things shown in the show would stop them from glamourising and romanticizing him.
@@BigMoney398 then that's their problem?? The show isn't meant to teach them moral..It showed how things happened. How we comprehend is totally our concern..Not for a moment I thought Dahmer was charismatic.Evan managed to make him look how disgusting,powerless he was to his own thoughts..I absolutely loved Evan's portrayal.
My heart breaks knowing that Tracy Edwards' life ended up going down hill after Dahmer's arrest. It angers me knowing that Dahmer's victims didn't survive with Tracy Edwards. It angers me that Dahmer could have avoided this path but chose not to. And it angers me that the victims suffered so much because of Dahmer. I love your videos Meep, I agree with all your commentary.
Remember the victims;
June 18, 1978: Steven Hicks, 18
November 20, 1987: Steven Tuomi, 24
January 16, 1987: Jamie Doxtator, 14
March 24, 1988: Richard Guerrero, 25
March 25, 1989: Anthony Sears, 26
May 20, 1990: Raymond Smith (also went by "Ricky Beeks"), 33
June 1990: Edward W. Smith, 28
September 1990: Ernest Miller, 22
September 24, 1990: David C. Thomas, 23
February 18, 1991: Curtis Straughter, 18
April 7, 1991: Errol Lindsey, 19
May 24, 1991: Anthony "Tony" Hughes, 31
May 27, 1991: Konerak Sinthasomphone, 14
June 30, 1991: Matt Turner, 20
July 5, 1991: Jeremiah Weinberger, 23
July 15, 1991: Oliver Lacy, 23
July 19, 1991: Joseph Bradehoft, 25
And of course, July 22, 1991: Tracy Edwards
He could have avoided what? Killing people? You haven’t a clue
Huh? @@blinkin78
don’t forget somsack sinthasomphone- who survived dahmer in 1988, tragically coincidentally his younger konerak would face dahmer years later.
My problem with Dahmer is that everybody remembers his name, but nobody remembers the victims
That goes for any event in history.
Everyone remembers Adolf and Pol Pot. No one remembers the faces in those mass graves.
@@agvga5510 There are some exceptions - like the assassination of Abe Lincoln. ;)
Defeated the entire purpose of this disgusting show
@@Jacson_23 The sad reality of our hypocritical world is that the only actual purpose of entertainment shows is to make as much money for the producers as possible. The "possibility criterion" varies depending on a lot of factors, including social acceptance. Any additional artistic or perhaps even socio-cultural value of a given TV or Hollywood production is mostly just a byproduct.
Welcome to world history. Where people are weirdly obsessed with giving horrible excuses of human beings the very attention they seek out
The fact that Ryan Murphy released a statement explaining that they tried to reach out to 20+ family members of the victims of Dahmer and none responded…so then he and everyone else on production just decided to make the show anyway, tells you everything you need to know about that man’s character.
oh, no. they responded. they tried very hard to convince them not to make it but they did anyway
@TheDarkerKnight wow okay fuck you for disrespecting the victims families
@TheDarkerKnight ????
@TheDarkerKnight this is so recent in history many of the victims families are still alive and have to live with this trauma for the rest of their life. Their loved ones were denied justice due to systemic racism, homophobia, and poverty. These victims were people with dreams and families. Their families shouldn’t have to be reminded of their death on repeat and watch the person that murdered their loved one be sensationalized. Many people don’t know the names of Dahmers victims yet we all know Dahmer. He doesn’t need to be sensationalized we all know the story.
@TheDarkerKnight this is a bad take man
It makes me sick to think about the victim’s loved ones having to open Netflix and the reminder being RIGHT THERE. It’s the first thing you see.
Why not cancel it
No one is forcing them to watch it though, still, tasteless of Netflix to not contact them.
@@mikasablackerman6776 you are acting like netflix is essential to life..lol
Good.
@@ns1208 what are you even saying. should the families of the victims not watch netflix just because its not essential to life? wtf
I’ll never forget the first time I saw Rita Isbell, who screamed and threatened Dahmer in court for the murder of her brother. Her pain and fury was more captivating, utterly heartbreaking, and more powerful than anything this show could produce. To know they threw that trauma back in her face and all the other victims of Dahmer with little to no regards for them is horrid.
Their first mistake was making a Dahmer show at all. It's so messed up. Imagine if someone you love is killed, and years later they make a show about their murderer.
Exactly
Should this be the same thing for like, zodiac, memories of a murder, mindhunter, etc since they all envolve real killers in a way or another?
I don't see a real issue there. Because movies like 22nd July make a great job to be authentic and deliver an immersive experience and tell the story of these tragic events. Why is it messed up to make shows depicting horrifying events for us to make them understand?
@@Dreamingroses93 "We don't need to understand this kind of stuff, he was just wicked". Man this sentence makes every criminal psychologist and psycholgist in general wicked. That's so American to say.
Grow up, reality is cruel and we need to understand it. Your whiny "oh no bad thingmms no bad thimbs" attitude sickens me. Everything isn't rainbow and unicorns.
@@Blind_Hawk Why is this American thing to say?? Other non Americans would’ve shared same opinion. Utterly dumb unnecessary blight of a remark. I’m not American and this show is utterly unnecessary. I’ve studied Dahmer during my legal studies class in high school. This show was so unneeded and even less educational and less sympathetic towards actual victims whose concerns around this show were totally disregarded for the sake of entertainment.
If they were going to take all these artistic liberties with the case of Dahmer, could they not have just written a story based on it? Then, you can be as creative as you want with your story and not retraumatise the families of victims. Yeah, you can't plaster the name on all the marketing, but that's a pretty fair price to pay to not exploit actual murder victims.
They aren’t creative enough for that
There's a deeper horror found within something which is real as opposed to something you know is fictional.
@@kingsugoyt Didn't the video mention Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was inspired by a real life murderer but didn't use any of the real life subject matter and still manage to have an huge impact?
@@blutygar Because at the time, what was there even remotely close to Texas Chainsaa Massacre?? It was a cultural phenomenon because there was nothing quite like it. Nowadays, you have a serial killer and a slasher film for just about everything you can think of. We aren't as sheltered and innocent anymore, so in order to really strike somewhere that leaves us scared and disturbed, you have to dig deep.
Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm a horror fanatic-
@@blutygar that was a lie. It's not based on anything and the creator said as much
Honestly David Fincher has done true crime projects with so much class and taste, whilst being as respectful to the victims as possible. Mindhunter and The Zodiac were excellent
Well what this guy failed to inform you of, was the book. It's about John Douglas, not the serial killers. Never was. It's not heroic, it's accurate. Same with ressler s books. Ann's books. This isn't a new genre it just got a new audience
He's a real filmmaker and artist though
Yeah I loved Alien 3. Really made me feel for the people on that prison planet.
he’s David Fincher for a reason
Mindhunter was alright, vastly overrated online. Same with zodiac, although it was slightly better
I will never understand people romanticizing a serial killer
Its all in the dopemene... Cinematography exploits the dopemene of certain folks who are attracted too violence, essentially it's a cash grab
Cuz of his looks, even though his average if he was ugly af they would be grossed out, you think they would write about a boss mafia killer in wattpad if they aren't hot? Looks always matter smh
@@Dob_Ogurtthey’re as bad as the killer
That’s nasty💀
It's ok you don't matter.
Not only did the creators blatantly disregard the wishes of the victim's families, but as you have said the show still put its spotlight on dahmer despite the showrunners trying to say otherwise. The only depiction of Jeffrey Dahmers story that actually encapsulates what the show claims to have tried to do, and in my opinion succeeds at doing so, is Derf Backderf's "My Friend Dahmer". All his research and accounts are accurate, and makes it very clear his understanding and empathy is gone by the time he makes the decision to kill. In fact, that is where the story ends. No going farther to display gore and sensationalize the brutal murders, but instead leaving off the story where it is. Throughout the book he constantly questions "where are the adults? where are the people that are supposed to intervene?" as he depicts their shared childhood. This to me better puts the thought of societal history and responsibility onto us, to try and be better, while still holding dahmer accountable for his actions the older he gets, and when he ultimately takes his first victim.
When do they ever worry about the victim's family when they make movies or television shows.
So what? Its an insteresting character deserving to be explored, just because of the real person the character was based on being a piece of shit, doesnt mean the character is not interesting.
@@mariohurtado4275 no it does not deserve to be explored. He’s been talked about ad nauseam already just leave it alone, he’s not an interesting man. He was a piece of human garbage, end of story, now you can watch whatever you want to. I’m not your mama but I’m just telling you the facts.
@@mariohurtado4275”interesting character” bruh he’s not fictional this happened and it shouldn’t have been made into a dramatised spectacle that was clearly just made to be a product for shareholders
@@JohnWall-lj1mx It is a character, based on a real person and why shouldnt it?
I wish true crime shows like this would focus on the victims like “Silenced” did. They are the ones who deserve to have their story told, they’re the ones who deserve to have their stories live on. Not the monsters who cut those lives short.
The problem here is that the monster story is usually a more interesting story to tell, and isn't forced into an anthology series.
Not every series is going to be about what you want. Valid criticism though.
Exactly. The victims in the show felt like we were witnessing a deer being born and going through life before being hunted. Sympathy for the victims came in the form of the neighbor woman attaching her name to everything for a paycheck.
if every episode was structured like silenced not a single person would want to be caught dead feeling sympathetic for dahmer
By Silenced you mean the Korean movie about that school for deaf-mute kids?
My problem with Dahmer is how Netflix was blatantly marketing him as some kind of sex icon. It is disturbing enough that people romanticize fictional psychopaths like Christian Grey or the Joker, but doing so with a real murderer who killed real people is a whole other level of wrong.
Were they though?
People don't romanticize the joker in any way. Have you ever seen Joker 2019? I don't even know how you can come away with that conclusion unless you are ideologically driven.
@@AR15andGODLook at any “Alpha male” post that’s in text form, or any edgy kid post. Romanticizing comes in many forms, not just in sexual ways.
netflix put the LGBT tag on this show at one point. they are so out of touch.
I don't think that happened. I never once saw any promotional material or anything like that that indicated that Dahmer was supposed to be a sexy person. His crimes were sexual in the sense that he brought people back to his house with the intent of having sex with them and then murdering them, but I wouldn't count that as being considered "sexy" in any way. Joker 2019 has absolutely never been a sex icon. They explicitly show him in the movie as creepy, mentally disturbed, and completely out of touch with women. Christian Grey was marketed as a sex icon, but that's only because the franchise he was in was supposed to be a twisted female fantasy. I do think it was a little fucked that netflix put the LGBT tag on Dahmer tho😭
As someone who literally knows one of victim’s family members. (He’s and old neighbor of mine) I can tell you this show is disgusting and absolutely horrible for disrespecting family wishes and making them live through their trauma.
The families didn’t want this? That’s sad
They literally reached out to the families, the families responded saying they didn't want the show to be made, and they went completely against those wishes and did it anyway. I didn't know this until I had started the show, but stopped watching as soon as I heard that. Its so disrespectful.
cry about it lol
it’s a show about reality, how about you get a grip on it?
@@emmapalssbc they’re not smart people not worth listening to
@@FrostyDubbz These people want to live in a dystopia where all evil is ignored and we pretend nothing bad ever happens. They are insane.
Serial killers should go down in history as something evil, something you aspire to stay away from, they should be the targets of brutal mockery,hatred and disgust but instead they get this.
To be fair, they were already treated like that, which is why many of them turned out the way that they did.
...u think people are supporting his actions based off of this. I mean everyone I have ever spoken to has taken a shit all over him. Who are u interacting with. It's a fucking Netflix drama that shows how shitty he was and how even tho you have a bad past it doesn't excuse how u treat others in the present. I don't think a lot of people think critically
@@Aldranor It’s basically torture porn For moms in their 30s
@@Aldranor people have always had weird fetishes for guys like Dahmer. It's not common, you'll probably never meet someone like that in person, I doubt they even leave their mother's basement. But they definitely exist, one thing the show did manage to get right is people needlessly glorifying him, fantasizing him, etc.
"This" is exactly everything you said, albeit done poorly.
people at my school were head over heels for this dahmer. people even dressed up as him for halloween. THEY DRESSED UP AS AND WERE ATTRACTED TO JEFFERY DAHMER AND SAW NOTHING WRONG WITH IT
That's kind of funny.
That's horrific.
That is just, very stupid. The fact that people idolize this killer is just horrible.
@JDoe-gf5oz nah its disturbing
Halloween? On June?
They could’ve done every episode based on a victim getting us to know this person and then showing the awful way Dahmer ended their lives like in episode 6, also I know it’s not a major thing but Dahmer didn’t wear glasses during the trial because he didn’t want to see the victims he was a coward and a monster. I feel terrible for the victims families having their trauma be replayed like that and profited off, no compensation no warning just bam series released and a bunch of girls fawning in how hot Dahmer is
If every episode was like that, I promise you it would be redundant and would get criticized. That is not the correct way to write a series.
@@Kevtheproducerstudio305 Do you know what an anthology is
@@juno6624 yes and no one is producing that as a Netflix show my guy…you clearly don’t know the industry
@@Kevtheproducerstudio305 silence deus ex pfp
He wasn’t a coward lol you gotta have nuts to sit there and dismember people and when he was murdered he just took it because he knew he deserved it he didn’t cry or beg for mercy
I remember having the same question when I found out Dahmer had a netflix adaptation. Before this, I already heard about his story in a lot of youtuble channels that covers true crimes or dark and mysterious stuff. I think I learned about the full detail of his story in Infographic's show's videos about him, and that was years before this series was made. When I found out Dahmer was getting a netflix series about his life and then it suddenly went viral, I can't help but wonder why. I mean... who is the show even is for? I know the full details of his crimes, and if you ask me, I don't think what he did deserved to be adapted in any form of artistic media. If it was a documentary, then I would've been fine with it. but no... they actually put a lot of effort into it, make it seem dramatic and artistic and so intriguing... like... why? If it was an adaptation of a fictional story, I'd get it. But no... this is a real crime, a real tragedy, a real story.
I remember seeing it on TV when it happened. He was a worthless pile of garbage that used human beings as sex toys...
Long story short: money.
They were told by victims families' NOT to do this, yet they did it anyway, and I can't help but assume they did it for monetary gain considering how popular all types of true crime media are.
netflix did actually do a documentary, like an actual informative doc on him, but i guess that just didnt make as much money for them 🤷♂️
the casting cracked me up because he's not just a hottie but a specific type of emo blonde hottie like they 100% were TRYING to make britches drench
The show was filmed, edited, promoted, and released in hopes of inspiring the next generation tbh
The second I saw Evan Peters, I knew exactly how this show would be framed.
How?
@@BarbieMariposa1613he has a fan base that like to make edits of things he’s done in American Horror Story, they aren’t good things at all
As much as I love Evan peters I just know how bad this is gonna be
Evan Peters is horribly typecasted it's so embarrassing because in my honest opinion he's not that good at crazy, he's just good at being weird. I wanna see him in more roles like his one on the office 😭
@@eyezodiotic3197 can I ask why you think that?
The difference between Joker and Dahmer is that one if clearly fiction. Joker can excuse it's attempts to make the audience understand and sympathize because it is entirely fiction and a cautionary tale of sorts. Dahmer on the other hand depicts real world violence that happened and trying to make the audience understand and humanize a man who killed REAL people and ruined the lives of REAL FAMILIES, makes it wrong. They should've done a show inspired by Dahmer and just done a character study with a fictional character. They clearly wanted to do that from the beginning, and it seemed like the portrayal actual effects on the victims and their families was an afterthought.
The problem is you glamourize & connect with character like joker but when a real person is like that you feel disgusted..I felt Dexter was kinda inspired by Dahmer
Now they make an entire cinematic universe based on this show. Truly disgusting.
Dahmer wasn’t trying to make people understand why he killed I watched the show already and I never felt that’s what the show was trying to do the only time I felt sympathy towards him was when they showed his upbringing it was honestly heartbreaking it doesn’t excuse any of the disgusting things he’s done though.
@@Damienp3902 exactly. What I wished they do is to focus more on the victims. Since more than half of them weren't even in the show at all. I even saw someone say the show was meant to honour the victims but honestly after watching, it clearly wasn't.
Inspired by dahmer defintely wouldve been better
The fact that they reached out to the victims’ families only to get no response really should have been a sign that this series should never have been made.
They didn't reach out to ask for permission, they reached out to ask them for their input on the story. How did he think they'd feel? I don't think he really cares at the end of the day. I think he was just ticking off a box of the gestures that need to be made to justify what he's doing, which is exploiting their sons and brothers for his financial gain.
Wouldn't a better sign be for any of them to say no?
@@La0bouchere Murphy didn't ask them for PERMISSION, he asked them to contribute their input. He was doing it with or without them.
They did respond.
They responded by begging for the show to not have been made, yet here we are.
Completely disagree. Thats irrelevant to why the show should be made. Fan fair is good enough.
That's why fictional killer stories will always be superior.
Like with Hannibal, you can enjoy his cooking scenes, you can like his charisma. And you don't need to feel bad becuase it's all made up.
Fictional tragedy is powerful because it reflects our reality in a way that is approachable. It hurts and it resonates with our own lives and experiences and what we see out in the world around us, but it's art and it has layers to it that we can dissect because it's not a real person were trying to understand, it's a fictional character written as a metaphor, with intent and purpose, by a writer who has a plan and a message woven into the characters very existence. That can't be said for real people. It's just so utterly immoral to pretend a real person is the same as a fictional character. Fictional characters are reflections of US, we should be worried about respecting them as mirrors of real humans, not worried about people flagrantly dismissing real people as if they and their actions were fun little adventures for their entertainment. It's sickening.
Exactly. And while Buffalo Bill is inspired by a real life killer (suspected as, but not proven in court, serial killer Ed Gein) people remember Hannibal more than they do Buffalo Bill, minus the quote of course.
Why is it ok to like any type of murder like what?
@@unodos9569 becuase it's fiction and doesn't harm anyone?
I have been saying this for a while. I'm glad to at least see i'm not the only one who thinks people should feel bad for consuming the tragedy of others for the sake of entertainment. many horror youtubers i once respected have gone down this route. also some of it feels very fear mongery, i literally heard one youtuber try to use peoples paranoia to market raycon earbuds "awareness mode" . like omfg that is so trashy. also people who are that paranoid end up being the most dangerous. like these stories are outliers yet people will treat it like a check box for profiling folks.
The absolute worst thing about this show is the disrespect shown to victim’s families. Their permissions weren’t considered necessary, which sickens me. If they had and if it still got green lit, it wouldn’t have been as controversial as it stands now.
It’s still an important piece, in my opinion. It highlighted the dangers of negligence in parenting, the hardships that African Americans faced back then and the importance of self-awareness we may even lack today, by future’s hindsight.
I mean yes but at same time a lot of there information is published or been publicly released. This is common for shows to do they don't often go to the families for permission cause it's a show not a recreation so no need for there permission. I do agree it is sad that they did that
@@FakedPvp TBH that just makes it all the more reason NOT to make the show. Everybody and their mother knows about the case. It's time to let the victims rest and leave their families alone.
@edittzz4175but they will be affected by the “fans” of this show posting it everywhere and reminding them on social media day after day of the worst moments of their lives.
@EdittZz People shouldn't have to essentially isolate themselves just to avoid getting triggered over and over.
Plus it's not that simple. If you had a family member murdered, somebody made a show to profit off the tragedy, and didn't ask for your permission, even if you avoided social media you'd be pissed about it.
@EdittZz Lmao sure.
I don't know about other people who created this show, but I don't think that Ryan Murphy deserves the benefit of the doubt regarding his respect for the victims, because of his history with American Horror Story. Throughout the show, he constantly takes horrible people from history and romanticizes them, or mythologizes them, or turns them into enticing figures, or exploits their crimes for shock value, sometimes all of the above. La Laurie in Coven, a whole ensemble of serial killers (including Dahmer) in Hotel, portrayed as a fun hangout group that meets once every year, the one with Richard Ramirez with superpowers, and much more. The moment I saw he was doing a Dahmer TV show, I exactly knew what's going on. Exploiting terrifying real life events for clout is after all his thing at this point.
As you already know from the AHS videos, I'll be one of the first to criticize the exploitative nature of a lot of Murphy's work. When I say I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, I didn't mean that his approach should be immune to negative backlash. Rather that I want to believe that, while often misguided, his intent is not malicious.
Call me naive but, for as much as I detest some of what he does creatively, I don't want to believe Ryan Murphy is a mustache twirling villain who looks at these events and says "Yes, this is perfect! Now I can exploit these people's suffering for money and attention!" I genuinely believe that, in his mind, he sees exploiting the taboo in his wildly successful series format as an avenue to make his audience contend with the horrors of the world and promote societal change.
Do I think he's successful at achieving that? No, not personally. I think his creative and stylistic approach completely truncates any of his intentions, and I obviously believe that's worth being negatively critical of (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to make this video). But, you might be right. Maybe he really does do all this purely for fame and money. Maybe he just says all this "respect for the victims" stuff for PR reasons, or to personally justify his actions. Which would be a really, really sad revelation and would make me lose a little bit of faith in art and humanity lmao. So I choose to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe more for my own sanity than Ryan Murphy's reputation.
I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Since the Dahmer uproar, I’ve been rewatching AHS and it’s turned into and entire case study on Ryan Murphy for these reasons. I don’t believe it’s a conscious, malicious intent, but it’s a big problem.
And a very cynical part of me thinks that he picked Dahmer because he's gay.
@@plantemor That would be ok, though. It’s really the least of the problems.
i love ahs but this aspect of the show has always made me deeply uncomfortable. there’s a shocking amount of real life serial killers portrayed in the show in such a disrespectful way i have to skip over most of the scenes that include them. coven and 1984 were the worst for it imo and the scene in hotel was just disturbing
Silenced was a real hit in the gut. Like you I completely forgot I was watching Dahmer, and by the time I was reminded, it was just crushing. If they would have given the other victims such a perspective, it wouldn’t have been such an exploitative/controversial series I believe.
i stopped watching the show after this episode. it was just too much man. felt horrible after i finished it and probably won't be going back to watch more
From a artistic standpoint, I thought it was great how you forgot it was actually the Dahmer show until about 20 mins in then they're in the bar and a blurry image of Dahmer sat at the bar becomes more focussed. Like its the representation of this evil focussing its attention on the victim and entering his life. Like the victim had been selected and now everything was going to ruined. But you're right, it was really the only episode to focus on the life of a victim pre-Dahmer.
The whole point was to reanact what Dahmer did mate
from a filmmakers perspective, you're right, it would've definitely lessened the exploitative feel the show has, but the truth is, it was always rooted in exploitation. they continued to create the show despite having 0 permission from every single one of the families. it was bound to happen, since the families have been exploited since the case was popularized. we never needed more shows/documentaries, all they do is reduce dahmer to a "character" and only harm the people they claim to "care about" and "respect".
@@nanah846 if money's the goal, there are no blockades in corporate eyes
I didn’t watch this show so I can’t comment on it. But imagine being a family member sitting down after work to watch something on Netflix and this pops up. It makes me sick.
The show doesnt give dahmer praise, it just tell its story and the story of his victims
@madness0006
name his victims without looking it up.
@@hughjanos3992 of course it doesnt mention all of his victims, i heard the story of tony hughes, and that, im not a computer to memorize every name
@@madness0006 it doesn't tell the story, it romanticizes everything that happened solely to be entertaining
@@batata4427 well the director was ryan murphy a guy known for making the best horror series, so what were u expecting
One of the worst sins this series committed, in my opinion, was the court room scene.
The scene where it focused on Rita. In the show she was calm collected, until the end. But in reality, she got angry, fast. To the point she had to be restrained.
There’s a video online that shows the real life court footage of Rita on top of the court scene from the show with the actress, and it’s nearly identical.
The only difference is that the real Rita was genuinely angry, because it genuinely happened to her real brother; Whereas the actress was simply that, an Actor. She didn’t go through those events and thus didn’t have the real emotions that the real Rita felt.
.
So the differences between the show and reality are mostly just from the fact it was an actor merely trying to portray something that really happened.
@@johnnyrocket1685I find it creepy how it’s nearly practically identical to the irl court
@@johnnyrocket1685no, it instead feels like they think poc are "crazy" for experiencing strong emotions so they portrayed rita in the show as "calm and collected" rather than being fucking angry that her brother was killed and the man who did it got away with it
She got angry fast in the show too and she did not did NOT stay calm
@@johnnyrocket1685Yes, it made the reenactment of the justifiable outrage seem like a comedy and meant to provoke hilarity. IT IS NOT FUNNY, IT IS NOT ENTERTAINMENT, IT IS NOT COMEDY, IT IS NOT A JOKE.
It's very upsetting to hear them talk about working so hard to respect the victims but failed to contact their families about making this.
E: b/c this is a hot topic. I didn't say try, I said failed. Ryan Murphy said he reached out to 20 ppl, but there are also victims saying they were completely blindsided. His word against theirs. They could both be telling the truth who knows. Ryan has motive to lie (protect his show) and the victims really don't. Believe what you want, but there are no reciepts. Yes it's legal, public record yada yada but I was expressing disgust that they were bragging about respecting the victims while simultaneously retraumatizing their families.
That's like having a specific white girl on Twitter trying to "Protect" The Black Community despite multiple black people asking her to stop but refusing anyways
They don’t need to ask permission to make the show.
@@brownmonke1155 that’s not the point. The point is, if they were serious about respect they would have at least asked for consent simply as a formality.
@@theredknight9314 oh, well to be fair I don’t really care about that either. It’s a documentary like anything else. It’s like getting mad at a 9/11 movie or a world war 2 movie. There is still people who have family members that didn’t survive 9/11. Do they got to ask them to create a movie about that for respect?
@@theredknight9314 did you watch the show by the way?
And there is also the hollywood fetish around how dangerously deep an actor can get into a character like this the same way it happened with Joker since Ledger. I think it could be one of the reasons why the show got lost in it's own premisse of 'not focusing on Dahmer's perspective' and ended up with half the series showing Dahmer for the sake of Evan Peters' performance.
I hate how people always think evil people only got that way because they have a sad backstory.
Almost everyone has a hard life.
Not only does it not lead to evil, it can make you a better person.
He was evil because he chose to be. Plain and simple.
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head. Just because you had a hard background doesn't mean you're excused and protected from evil acts.
This reminds me of a Reddit post where the OP was heavily bullying an autistic kid because he was abused at home, and wanted to inflict his pain and suffering on others. At some point, the autistic kid killed himself to escape the bullying.
That is true, but we cannot ignore the trend where extremely traumatic circumstances (especially during childhood) are the common link among almost every perpetrator of a heinous crime. Not everyone who faces intense trauma becomes a serial killer, but almost every serial killer has such a backstory.
This in no way should justify ones actions, but definitely explain them. As a society, we can demonise these people (rightfully, of course) but in order to prevent more people from turning like this I think it is necessary to address that root cause.
Just hearing about this show and how they went about it absolutely disgusted me. The fact that they didn't ask the family members of the victims permission is completely shameful.
Edit: Even if they did ask, since they didn't get any permissions, they should've called it quits right then and there.
This! I refuse to watch it. And saying it’s exploitative is on point and not what people should be angry about, they should check themselves smh
Tbh I don't think that the families of the victims would have greenlit the portrayal. Not all of them, at least.
It's understandable. If their loved ones are gone, they want them to be remembered for the people that they are, not for this PoS waste of a person.
The fact is they don't need their permission. There are plenty of untruths in the series
@@yvonnesanders4308 Yeah which further proves that those behind the show didn't care
@@yvonnesanders4308 they don’t need their permission because it’s public record, but they still shouldn’t have made the series
I think something very telling is how Dahmer’s younger self is played by an actual child actor but the victim Konerak Sinthasomphone a 14 year old child, was depicted by an actor who was 20 years old.
Because using real minors for sexual scenes in a television series is criminal
@@shufflesaurus2666 Keira Knightley got away with it.
@@shufflesaurus2666 I mean, it’s very easy to alter a scene to make it metaphorical. A competent writer can show instead of telling. Also that’s not the point. The creative team made an executive choice to not depict the victim as a child and lessens Dahmer’s horrors as a pedophile.
Young adult actors are typically the ones cast as teens because of the legal issues involved with using actual teen actors. Everyone on Glee was in their 20s, everyone on Euphoria is in their 20s... it's not anything specific to this show. It's made apparent in the scene that the "character" is a 14 year old.
@@meganfaith4052 hey, it's not a "pedophile" it's an LGBT person! Have some respect!
I loved "Silenced" episode... But there is also two problematic stuffs about it: A lot of people started to "ship" Tony with Jeff, and rooting for them being together and having thoughts like "it could be different..." "he could have changed Jeff..." "oh poor Jeff he was just scared to be abadonned again...". And, one of the things that the series forgot to mention, is that Tony was the first victim of the experiment of the "lobotomy sex slave fettish".... Yes, Tony could NOT save Jeff!!! And I guess that his family is brokenhearted to read those things about Tony right now... It is a goddamn wellwritten episode... in a sense, it was refreshing to se the point of view of a minority: a gay black and deaf man, and a wonderfull kid and human being in a true crime series... But with what cost? Changing those facts, that he was the first lobotomy victim, that Tony "could have changed the monster into a prince" thing like a Beauty and the Beast fairy tale... I think that is not fair... this also could be used to imply that really, he just was using Tony in the fisrt place, and the fact that Tony was his first attempt of a so called "zombie", should not be ommited...
He first lobotomy was errol lindsy it was 9 victims it thinks
@@elisabethfotso727 Yeah, in the "Victims" Session here on wikipedia it make it clear that it was Errol the first attempt of lobotomy, Tony was the second. I guess that the netflix documentary was too brief about Errol being the first attempt.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
Sorry but this idea that if someone is bad they will be bad forever is just wrong.
There are plenty of people who have been in and out of prison and managed to turn their lives around.
The fact that people place than on Tony, too, almost like a responsibility, is disgusting. No one is responsible for Dahmer's actions but himself, and portraying it like he was just scared of being abandoned or as if one of his victims could've "changed him" is so wrong.
@@TheIrland09 Way to completely miss the point.
I feel bad for even watching the show. The first time I heard the line about “the story can’t be told from Dahmer’s perspective” I just thought… but that’s exactly what you did. They humanized a monster.
My issue with the Netflix shows on Dahmer revolves around a troubling theme. They often portray him as an atypical serial killer, downplaying his sadistic nature and highlighting his longing for companionship.
The show subtly attribute his murderous tendencies to his past abandonment issues, excusing his actions to some extent. This portrayal is highly problematic and sets a dangerous precedent.
While antihero protagonists have become prevalent in television, dramatizing a real-life serial killer like Dahmer is a different matter. It's like making a romantic comedy about Hitler, blurring the line between sympathetic humanization and exploitative glorification.
Despite any personal grievances or psychological explanations, Dahmer was a sociopathic murderer who brutally took the lives of 17 innocent men. Loneliness and childhood trauma cannot justify or mitigate such heinous acts.
The apologetic tone of these shows, framing Dahmer as a misunderstood individual in need of treatment, undermines the gravity of his crimes. He was fully aware of his actions, driven by an inner urge to control and dehumanize others.
After being found legally sane, there should be no room for excuses or sympathy for a man with blood on his hands and a freezer full of mutilated remains.
Yet, due to the over-objectivity of these Netflix releases, Dahmer sympathizers continue to emerge even three decades later.
They also made his dad way to likeable and blamed basically everything on his mom's PPD. Victimizing Dahmer. It's gross.
Giving an explanation for how his brain got fucked isn't a way of being apologetic.
"How did he end up this way?"
"Because XY&Z"
"Wow, defend him why don't you."
See how ridiculous that sounds? Probably not.
@@tripptank Giving an explanation for how his brain got fucked isn't necessarily apologetics. But 'giving an explanation' is not a neutral act. Framing is very, very important, as the original commenter said. It's not depicting the events that's the problem, it's how. "Because XY&Z" isn't as simple as it looks.
"How did he end up this way?"
"A substantial part of it was his abusive circumstances, but also he was found legally sane and knew his actions were morally wrong. There are far more abuse victims who do not go on to murder and eat people, so it was not the full cause, there was something else, but such extreme circumstances likely did affect him. Even so, it doesn't excuse his despicable actions."
"I see."
The above is a more accurate conversation. On the flipside, an answer of "He made some mistakes because he didn't have the same morals as everyone else, because he was lonely and was hurt a lot as a kid" would much more likely be answered with "Wow, defend him why don't you", because the explanation, while perhaps somewhat accurate, is very misleading and kind to Dahmer, ignoring and downplaying the severity of the actions. Just like the difference between a documentary which actually focuses on the victims vs focusing on the murderer, which uses plenty of cinematography (and even the premise) to paint him as sympathetic.
As one example, showing a character go through something we wouldn't enjoy almost always elicits empathy from the audience, so showing him getting bullied and abused sets the stage for an underdog that the audience wants to defend. We as people don't like seeing others get hurt. That alone is sympathetic/empathetic in a show where the main character is hurt.
If you want an account of Dahmer's life or reasonings behind it, read a scientific paper or an academic book. Don't go to a cinematised drama version of it, because there is far more to it than "Because XY&Z" than one might notice at a glance.
@midnight4685 "Giving an explanation isn't a neutral act."
The factor making it neutral or not is the explainers intentions. Which other than your own interpretation of the show, you have no way of knowing, since the framing you mentioned is precived by half the viewers including myself, to be UNfavorable to Dahmer. So much so that your second paragraph is exactly how I would actually summarize the show. While your third blatantly ignores the many times characters including dahmer himself asked what is wrong with him. And needing someone to spoon feed you the idea that the moments of abuse they showed, were there because they happened, and not as vindication, shouldn't be necessary. It happened, and people being idiots is not a valid reason to leave out details of a story.
How long do you think it would take me to find a scientific paper or academic book defending him? How possible do you think it would be to make a historically accurate cinamatized version? There are many ways to tell a story and give information. Don't assume the message based on the medium.
@@tripptank Certain media will always affect a message though, that is unavoidable. Intentions do not dictate what comes out, just like how a person can intend to be nice and say something hurtful. A documentary may be informative, it's not to say that no piece of video media can be informative, but a drama focused on a bad person as a main character is not neutrally informative, because dramas develop a bond between the audience and their main characters. The point of a drama is to elicit emotion from the viewer, which is not part of the quest for 'why is this person so messed up'. By showing more of the killer's perspective, it will humanise him more than other characters.
You also might have misunderstood my point with the discussions; that format is a text discussion, where word choice is what communicates morals and opinion. It is an analogy, not exactly the same as the show. Because in cinema, even if the base story fits the first example, if the 'word choice' of the show, word choice being the cinematography, paints a nicer picture, then it comes out like the second discussion. If I said the first piece while rolling my eyes and making air quotes with my fingers the whole time, people would react just as negatively. If you like, consider that the analogy for the cinematography. Even if the story is the same as the words in the first discussion, if the structure of the show itself is conveying clear disdain through signals, it's not going to be taken seriously.
If you were to look for a scientific book or paper that was determining what led him to those acts, you would most likely not find one that use almost any moral framing at all, not showing him as good or bad. They would have a far greater chance to be neutral because they would be conveying points rather than using descriptive language to elicit sympathy. Just to check, I googled different papers related to Dahmer and all of the ones related to the psychology are as clinical and cold as you would expect them to be. None of them humanise him at all. But drama isn't the only medium that would cause a problem, like how a novel with Dahmer as the main character would likely be just as flawed for reasons below (though at least it could have an unreliable narrator).
I think the crux of the issue is the focus on Dahmer. Because by framing the narrative from his point of view, we get to see far more of him than we do the victims. That will inevitably lead to sympathy due to the audience witnessing more moments of humanity that an audience can relate to and cherrypick rather than spending that time humanising the victims. Even in the most evil characters in fiction, people relate to them and sympathise with them, because people can see snippets that they can relate to: being sad, being bullied, being tired or even just seeing the emotions that he feels, that always elicits empathy in humans. Every non-sociopath recognises, even at a subconscious level, "Oh, I've felt sad, feeling sad sucks, I don't want that guy to feel sad" because that's basic human empathy. Hell, people can relate to asking themselves what's wrong with them, that is something that a huge amount of people have been asked.
We don't get to have moments of relatability for the victims if their only roles in the show are based around the murderer. The murderer is inherently humanised if the audience sees human parts in the murderer to relate to. That's just a function of the brain, it's not spoonfeeding or immature, it's like why we see cats and dogs as cute, empathy is unavoidable. It's why if you look up fans of Dahmer the real man, they cherrypick the cute human parts they can relate to. That he's gay, or that he looks like other harmless characters they recognise, or whatever they impose on him. By showing more moments of him, it gives the audience more moments to cherrypick, consciously or not, and their brains find empathy for those cherrypicked parts. But there just aren't those moments for the victims.
So even if this show conveyed a perfectly factual message, it would deliver a completely wrong emotional message due to its focus on Dahmer - but that emotional message is an inherent part of the medium of drama and the whole point of the issue online. Dramas are entertaining because of investment in the characters. Investment in characters stems from recognising the humanity and snippets of relatability. The medium does genuinely get in the way of the show here, that's why people are annoyed.
P.S. But if you can give me a single drama that is similar to Dahmer in that it was about a real, vaguely-recent, horrific crime and has the villain as a main character while managing to not humanise them, I would check it out and change my stance.
when he said roughly “this story does best not when using the victims to to tell dahmer’s story but when using dahmer to tell the victims story” that totally summed up how i felt about it. i felt the same way about tony too, when i caught myself beginning to love tony i felt so heartbroken when i remembered where this was going… tony’s storyline definitely made me cry and i continued to tear up when the victims’ stories were being told
EXACTLY
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
@@iknowexactlywhoyouare8701 people keep talking about it because we dont want to see it happen again. if people kick up enough fuss maybe next time a producer will think twice before creating an unnecessarily warped recreation of a real and unbelievable tragedy. it would be terrible if other producers decided to follow suit of this series and make super dramatized versions of other awful cases where the families involved are still around and being affected to this day.
@@just_.b. either way, they’re still contributing to the trauma by talking about it over and over again even if they meant it with good intentions
@@just_.b.
That's not how business works, sadly. These producers have profited from the show precisely because these reviews and such won't shut up about it. It's free publicity. If anything this will encourage another show or season to be made.
This isn’t the first time Ryan Murphy has done this. In AHS, Evan Peters’ character Tate is modeled after the Columbine sh00ters.
Most of the murderers there were "inspired" by real crimes. Especially season 5 - The countess, H. H. Holmes, Dahmer, Aileen Wournos,...
To be fair, having a fictional villain being inspired by real life evil people isn’t always a bad thing. Case in point, Freddy Krueger was based on Dennis Rader and he’s kind of similar to Albert Fish. But because Wes Craven had class, he didn’t make Freddy into a copy of Fish or Rader, and he made damn sure not to make him even the slightest bit sympathetic. Ryan Murphy, on the other hand, seems to have a raging hard-on for losers like Dahmer, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. I mean, this is the same guy who made Richard Ramirez into a slasher movie villain in AHS: 84. Really tasteful, Ryan.
@@cashthecurator666I’d argue that all villains are at least partially inspired by real people. Especially some of the best ones
@@cashthecurator666 Are you literally fucking kidding? Are you going to set here, bold face with full little chest and pretend Cravens didnt write Kruger to be a likable villain? Is this a joke? Im being punked, right? You understand when Kruger kills *WE ALL ROOT FOR IT* right? Omfg just sticking your whole fist up your ass and yanking out whatever and smearing it on the keyboard for arguments sake i see.
Well yes, most good villains are inspired. I agree with this. Tate is not a good villain, he's honestly just weird and cringe mixed with violent crime and incel. Oh, and grape and child from grape. Not a good villain, simply provocation for provocation's sake. No hate to the actor tho
I found that the arty and poetic cinematography etc really conveyed why dahmer did what he did. It was a kind of transcendental, ritualistic, intoxicating and hypnotic experience for him. If you're already enamoured with dahmer or highly cognizant of the fact that other people are, it's probably going to precondition you to think that these scenes were mythologizing dahmer or portraying him adoringly.
I’m in high-school. The show ‘Dahmer’ is apart of an underlying issue in true crime media where they characterize these people to the point they are infantilized in some ways and sexualized in others. I’ve seen this in a few other shows or series, most notably being ‘Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile’ which is a piece of media about Ted Bundy overviewing the public opinion and view of him. I watched the entire show with my sister and I couldn’t help but feel slightly disturbed at how they depicted a serial killer in such a horribly endearing demeanor. It was like they were wanting you to feel some sort of sympathy just to hit you with shock factor at the end. ‘Dahmer’ uses a lot of these methods in the way that they infantilize and fictionalize this real person who has done horrific acts of violence. They do the exact same thing in most pieces of true crime. The reason I felt it important to mention that I am in high-school is how vile children act about these real people who have done real things. I have seen people point out people look like Dahmer, I have seen people make jokes to me about eating people because of my name. You can’t walk a minute in the halls without hearing the name ‘Dahmer’ used as some sort of insult or some confusing compliment among true crime ‘Fans’ It’s strange that people had such a reaction to the show. Overall, my opinion about the show is that it’s horrible. If it was a piece of fiction, if it as based off of these crimes and adapted into a piece of fiction, if it was handled better then it would be fine. Instead, they treated it as if it was these things although it wasn’t. They chose to have a message that is completely hypocritical to what is actually happening. In short; I hate it.
My take on the Ted Bundy movie is that it puts the viewer into a sense of paranoia and wonder at the end of the movie similar to how others around him thought of him and his personality. In my opinion, it sympathizes him in a way where the viewer is left confused and betrayed much like how the general (moral) public reacted to the real evidence and his confession to committing over 40 murders, speculated to be more. I don't think this is a bad way of showing sympathy, but it's also easy to imagine why others think of it in another way. its hard to explain
As a young adult you got the right mindset my man, keep it, run with it, expand it, guard it and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise when it comes to seeing underlying issues with things like these. Be safe out there💪🏾
i was in highschool in the town where they filmed part of that show (never watched it and didnt keep up so idk exactly how much was filmed there, but i remember a few seperate times things were blocked off or theyd film inside someones house and that kid would talk abt it at school or whatever) and i remember just kinda feeling weird abt how excited everyone was abt like them using our town to glorify a serial killer? which is part of why i never watched it
btw someone's probably gonna try to say im lying or that wasnt true or sth, but like it was. idk why i would make that up lmfao
You’re very articulate for someone in high school. You’re going places.
ur a smart guy man, I bet you feel a little out of place at school. U don't seem to be ignorant like the rest of ur peers. U see things for what they truly are. I agree, Dahmer is a terrible show. I was not too fond of it from the second it was announced. Kids in college act the same way towards it. Girls fangirling over him, people dressed up as Dahmer during Halloween parties, and somehow he pops into every conversation. I thought it was all disgusting. I hate true crime and movies and shows that are extremely gory and disturbing. I just don't think people should watch that kind of stuff. If u watch too much of it, I feel like you can go crazy yourself or you become desensitized to it, and its no longer that disturbing. I think this also causes paranoia and people start becoming more suspicious of one another. I mean, everyone has the ability to kill another human. By watching these kind of shows you may become very suspicious of everyone around you that you meet... its just not good for our mental health to watch this kind of stuff. People with anxiety, depression, or anything like that should stay away from media like this. It will only make them more paranoid. But somehow.. those kind of people seem to enjoy this show the most. Very strange.
I loved the episode Silenced, because it gave me what the series' description promised: the victim's point of view. It was interesting and gave a perspective into what life was like for that specific person, but the rest of the series should've also focused on the victims' lives before Dahmer took it from them. I think this series had potential with the social commentary, but it also focused too much on the murderer, who has been portrayed a lot in both fiction and documentaries. It could've been interesting (and probably more welcomed by the victims' families) to show how these people were in their everyday lives, and stayed more true to reality. We already have documentaries focusing on the crimes and the criminal, but not enough on the people who were affected by them.
Is not popular, people will downvote it to hell
This is especially true when you consider that serial killers do what they do because they do not see other people as people. To make the serial killer the main character is exactly what a serial killer wants, and ties into the entire reason why they kill. Most of them WANT to be famous for killing people. Netflix making him the main character and then claiming to be about telling the victims' stories is so glaringly contradictory. Taking the time to show how he was bullied as a child etc. is so infuriating because it is effectively irrelevant to the reason why someone becomes a murderer. Serial killers from birth have a part of their brain missing - sure they need to ALSO have bad childhoods to actually become one. It's so misleading to show all of that stuff as if becoming a murderer is the natural conclusion, like millions of people around the world don't also have childhood trauma. I don't think anyone should attempt to humanise that POS as a matter of principle.
Same! From the entire series I only enjoyed and loved that part. Whenever they showed little glimpses into the lives of other victims, I really wanted those scenes to last longer. I also liked the scenes after Dahmer's arrest which showed how the families of the victims suffered - both from the loss of their loved ones and through the constant harassment of Dahmer's fans, racists and sadistic people. It shed light on the general society's lack of empathy and seriousness towards the people affected by heinous crimes.
Had I watched this series when my true crime obsession had just begun, I wouldn't have liked these parts. I would have obsessed over Dahmer's portrayal. Initially, I used to love descriptions given by the media that humanises criminals. But soon, I began feeling very exhausted by them. I began watching content that only humanises the victims and to this day I watch only that. I don't understand how many people are able to consume sugarcoated description after description of serial killers without feeling exhausted.
This video sums up my exact opinion on the show. Creative liberties in the true crime genre just never seem to fit, both artistically and morally. The fact that this show became so popular not only highlights our societies morbid curiosity, but also tells me society will continue to produce people like Dahmer.
It may be morbid curiosity but it’s also natural for humans to want to know how things happened. Even disturbing things like this. And there have always been ppl like Dahmer. They’re just now being exposed and caught more. And ppl don’t become serial killers and cannibals because of a tv series. They become that way from bad genetics and child abuse.
@@coolcat6303 I never said TV series produce serial killers or that this was a new phenomena of the human race. I also never said it wasn't a natural curiosity. I was speaking to the tone-deaf nature of the show and society, in a general sense.
Cry me a river (worlds smallest violin begins playing🎻 ).
@@DerrickVanderspoon Are you okay?
@@causeXeffect23 I mean, the better question is are you? Your whole comment gave 🤓 type energy.
The fact that an audio from the show became an extremely viral sound bite...when i was told the origin of the sound, i was disgusted
I’m late but what audio clip is it? I hope I haven’t heard it…
@@ALilCherry "smile...I'm going to take a picture" (something like that)
Oh helllll nah 😭 On Tiktok?
@@letmedream111Ewww I don’t even wanna know the context
this is also like the 5th show/movie made about dahmer. if people actually cared about the victims there would be only 1 victim-centered documentary with little/no dramatization. but money comes before morals i guess.
Guys, we do care about the victims but let’s face the truth - the victims are not near interesting enough to warrant an entire show based on their life. They tried to do this with Ted Bundy and showcase his victims but it was not that good.
@@brianmeen2158 That's the sick sh!t about this: why do you WANT to hear about a serial killer's life? What kind of misery porn are the people tuning in to watch that sort of show GOING FOR, again?
I watch documentaries: dry facts, interviews with the people who worked on the case, victim profiles, how they got lured.
None of these hard truths need to make sickos be glorified and mythologized and sympathetic. They're monsters and that's it. There is no value to the scum of the earth except maybe as vague plot inspiration for horror movies or games-- where their identity is all sanded out and they're never given the adulation and glory they wanted.
@@brianmeen2158 what’s your point exactly
@@brianmeen2158 “guys, we do care, BUT …”
It’s that “but” that screams otherwise. Reread your comment and see where your train of thought is all jacked.
“Oh I care, BUT …” as if it’s the victims fault somehow.
So … create yet _another_ movie and yet _another_ show about a guy who honestly doesn’t deserve the spotlight more than those he victimized solely because their life was “boring”?
That’s fucked up and feeds right into this shit as it justifies the continuation of victimizing the victims again and again for “but muh entertainment tho” as if it’s some Saturday night chill flick to pop on and soak up as if it’s no biggie. That’s the real issue here. These are real victims with real families. These are real deaths … not some entertainment quick fix.
Capitalism at it's finest
You know how they started introducing the fans that wrote to him in prison? Those are the people this show is for.
Not at all. He was deplorable, knowing he is and was and being thankful that he got what was coming to him in prison is why the show was at all satisfying to most.
* Most popular show on incredibly large platform with an insanely diverse userbase *
Bro this is for those few weird girls who wrote to ted bundy
Just because there are a few ppl, out there, who idolize a serial killer doesn’t mean the tv series is bad. It just means those ppl are weird. They are also in the minority. 99% of the ppl, that watch this show, are intelligent and will be as just as repulsed as anyone else by Dahmer’s actions. Society also can’t function if we constantly worry about some weak minded person getting the wrong idea from it. There will always be bad apples.
I’ll never understand people like you who take it on as like some bizarre personal mission to fight against true crime media and make people who consume it feel bad for doing so. Like bruh💀😂 You’ve got no moral duty or right to try to make them “see the truth” or something. Holier than thou type mf lol
@@coolcat6303 The problem is the show trying to make you sympathize for the killer, also romanticizing everything. There's always going to be gullible/stupid teenagers, but that's only because the show is at fault.
Episode six ("Silenced") is *excellent*. If you're feeling a kind of empathy for Jeffrey Dahmer as the series goes on, as a kind of tragic figure which might be true to some extent, the scene where he donates to the family's effort to find Tony will powerfully remind you of what an absolute monster he really was. I found myself saying out loud, "you know what you did, piece of shit".
Most people feel sorry for his fucked up childhood. No one feels sorry for the adult dahmmer. If he were to be raised by real people and taken care of maybe he would have had a different fate.
It was all manufactured for the show that shld piss u off it didn't happen imagine being a parent of a victim and the show shows a loving relationship between ur son and his killer that never happened
@@BillyBoot-z3gd Ahmet did try to seduce these men so you seeing love is wrong there was no love just lust besides I feel bad for kid danger maybe if his dad took more time to understand or maybe if we had better understanding of mental health none of this monsters actions would’ve happened
It was made for the blacks
Yup
The original Sims building music in the background combined with the topic SENT me
where did it send you? are you okay??? 🙄
If they didn't get a response from the families then that is a NO. If you don't get a "Yes" then it is a "No". Someone online who is family to one of the victim's shared the letter online. In the letter they said they were going to make the show to give justice to the victim's stories. That they were going to not focus on Dahmer. They completely ignored that. I'd also like to mention that the polaroids in the first episode are, allegedly, the real ones. When I saw them, I instantly recognized them. Even if they recreated them, it would be problematic that they looked at this real person's disfigured body and recreated that.
Dahmer is not okay because it is about and takes creative liberties on the real person. If this was fictional, that would be great. Why couldn't they have just made a fictional show and a fictional character based off of the real deal? I would have been okay if it was fictional. But using actual or recreating actual polaroids? I will be embraisened to say fuck this show. I can not support it.
Look, Dahmer and his victims died about 20 years ago, okay? In reality, Netflix doesn't need anyone's permission to make the show and they can certainly use as much creative license as they want. The show never tells the audience that everything is an accurate retelling of the story and frankly why would they?
This is why the show has an age restriction, because any functioning adult can do some critical thinking and realize that this is a series... with actors. And their being filmed and reading lines and such, all written and directed by professionals. No series or movie, no matter how accurate or fictional, could ever bring "justice" to anyone from this case, ESPECIALLY if it had more of a focus on them than Dahmer. And about the polaroids, again, we are all adults here and this is a series about a serial killer so... who cares?
Their are worse "true stories" being told constantly about people no one cares about, so no one complains but all of a sudden everyone cares about "the victims families" when the only thing they know about them is from Netflix or Twitter.
This is a Netflix show not a documentary, it doesn't need support.
@@moonknight6088 I agree mostly and how do all the people saying it would be ok if it was a fictional show based on dahmer even come to think that? It would be the same exact thing and could make the families of the victims feel the same exact way but I guess then the people who say that can feel ok watching it and not have to worry about being shamed for liking a show. When I watched the first episode I basically got close to feeling like how someone in that situation probably felt like and I think that can be a very important thing for people to experience so those victims didn’t only die for Jeffrey dahmers enjoyment, their deaths could help thousands of people become empathetic to another human being when maybe they didn’t feel that before because of abuse or trauma they lived through. Could stop a future dahmer. You won’t get that by making something not entertaining or maybe not about a real person.
The white guy uses exploitation as a reason not to make something ooookkkkayyy
You don't need permission. End of story cry about it and learn some legal advice before commenting stupid stuff
@@moonknight6088 don’t u have some compassion for the victims family’s? Yeah, obviously Netflix doesn’t necessarily need to ask anyone’s permission on anything but that’s real people’s families who they are dealing with. As a company you can’t just say who cares, that happened long ago and move on,thats not humane and must have been incredibly traumatizing for them, so either u leave the victim’s families alone or create a piece of media that does not exploit the community’s trauma (with their support of course)
It's just like Don't Fuck With Cats, where at the end it was revealed that the killer's main goal was to be infamous and well known and at the end of the show, they basically say "by watching this, you're realizing his goal."
Um, actually, by making a fucking documentary on it, you're realizing his goal.
Dahmer's goal was definitely NOT to become infamous. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. I've read his father's autobiography, he was the opposite of an attention-seeker.
RIGHT??
"Don't fuck with cats! Oooh, kitties got claws! Ooh, behave! Hiss hiss :3".
Me: *Firing up the power lathe*
It's more like both. We're all culpable when we give these things views. You could also not have watched and diminish the overall appetite for it. Shame or disown it. You could have done those things but you didn't. We're all culpable when we enjoy true crime for entertainment purposes.
@@nuevarine True, yes
I never watched the show (and I don’t plan to) but, your part about episode 6 being the best, makes me wonder if it would have been better if that was the show. If it was an anthology. With each episode focusing on the victim, their life, families, dreams, aspirations, etc., up to when they interact with Dahmer. While still exploitative, it at least shifts the focus from Dahmer and makes it more about the victims and shows the actual tragedy of these crimes; Young innocent lives cut short.
So you didn't watch the show but will still follow the armchair analysis opinion? Sheeple take
Who said they were innocent?
@@Shockkings0714 Nah, people just don't wanna watch whatever Netflix shits out
@@ElPolloLoco7689 He's saying that it "would be better if"
So how does he know that? If not by being a sheeple.
@@jay1jayf That's a fair point, it could've been worded better
I actually really loved how they focused very heavily on the konerak's and how the murder affects racism and homophobia, the repercussions of dahmers actions and how it affected a community. I thought those last few episodes were really well done, whereas the beginning we were seeing things from dahmer's pov, by the end we were seeing things through the eyes of an asian immigrant family and the families of the victims and the people in the community.
My 11 year old sister said she had a classmate who dressed up as dahmer for Halloween spirit week at her school. No words. Just disappointment. Just hopelessness.
Wish I could say I was shocked but people are shitty🙄
Get over yourself!
People dressed as Dahmer for Halloween even when Dahmer was alive. He also received many fan mails in jail
What a Chad
@@ad8447 oh it happened before so it's okay! ffs
Exactly....no matter how evil you want to portray a bad character, when you make them a central character people will always find a way to relate to them. Find ways to justify things they've done
Not true
Agreed.
@@アキコ2003Very true
Justify. No
Looking for possible explanations as why someone turns out like thst. Yes.
Básics of psychology. Your cirscuntances mold your behaviour.
What are potential triggers for some people to end up like dahmer?
@@ViDeToolit's all about taste and respect.You can make a respectful and neutral documentary and not many ppl will watch or you can make a sensationalised show with your own spin on real events.
as a black man, and one with very close ties to friends in the lgbtqia+ community, i refused to watch this show. they just exemplify the public obsession with the worst kind of human. it shows the killer in the light of sympathy, and nobody bothers talking about the people genuinely hurt. i hope true crime takes a look at the public reaction and trys to stray away from glorifying the people that are supposed to be the villains
You do realize they walked into this series, trying to not make you sympathetic for Dahmer. And I know some people did, but they are retarded
people in the true crime community and true crime media itself has proven time and time again that they do not care about our lives, lgbt and poc victims are only unfortunate stepping stones to a juicy story in their eyes.
This! I refuse to watch it, and haven’t been using Netflix even tho it’s not my subscription, I’m so over them and medias hard on regarding pain and suffering rather than honesty, empathy and accountability
#2 and it’s not just the Dhamer bs but also shit like the bastard son series etc
Absolutely! There's a scene in the show where one of the victims sisters screams at him in court. The actual woman said when watching the show, they stole what she said word for word, outfit too brand by brand so much that she initially didn't realize it wasn't a recording of her. She had no idea they were going to do it either
Go watch Mindhunter, it’s a masterpiece and I’m still gutted they had to stop at season 2.
It’s such pure work of art because it’s actually trying to tell you something about the human psyche, and also based on a book and how the FBI were understanding these monsters that walk among us. It has a purpose and David Fincher has always been a master with true crime. Especially with his work on The Zodiac.
It's weird that they said they wanted to respect the victims but ignore the families when they said not to make it and didn't consent to it. Like, what a lie. They just want money at this point. They don't care about the victims or the families.
Which is exactly why they picked a handsome actor to play as Jeffrey. They knew people would fall in love and make them millions
@@Annabellethedoll666 well tbh Ryan Murphy does use Evan Peters in a lot of his productions. Helloooo? AHS?
@@dlilwon no shit Sherlock....... Like I said, he knew that getting Evan Peters to play it people would fall in love. Why else do you think people fell in love with sociopath tate langdon?
@@Annabellethedoll666or Ted bundy we really forget how a nice looking guy could do monstrous things but still be loved
@thedarkerknight2188 but the families that have lost loved ones probably don’t want to be reminded of the horrible person that stole their family member away. The true crime community is known for being shitty towards the actual victims.
They approached this show in a really weird way. Sure they put a light on how evil he was but kind of sexualized it in a really odd way.
Probably because for most serial killers the act of killing is almost a euphoria that most normal people would relate to sex. The show isn't supposed to make you comfortable.
@@chunkycornbread4773and the show isnt supposed to exist because the victims' families didnt allow them to but they did anyways
@@lxmesoda The victims families dont own the right to public events. Their "allowance" means less then fuck all. All they can do is not watch it. Thats as far as their rights reach. Most of them weren't talking to their murdered family member at the time for being gay, anyways. They abandoned them. Almost all of his victims were categorized as "homeless" or "couch surfing", thats why he targeted them, he knew it would be a safer kill.... But suddeny here comes the poor FaMilY with the big big boohoos. The 14 year old literally had been homeless for a soilid year and was grossly underweight, his family wouldnt let him step foot in the house.
@@spoons250this is such an awful take its almost disgusting
@@spoons250they sure owned the rights to the fucking lives of people shown dawg
Genuinely, I feel like, if a killer was recent enough that their victims and their loved ones are still alive, you should not fictionalize the events, it's gross pure and simple. This is a big problem I have with Ryan Murphy, he did it with the Nightstalker, all it does is glorify these people and spit in the faces of the ones they hurt. If they want to make fake events and humanize the killer then make up a fake killer, period, there is no saving grace, this is exploitation. They can't even pretend it's for awareness or art, Dahmer is one of the most well known criminals of all time because the media still glorifies him, the events are fictionalized and there is no message to be had, no one needs to understand Dahmer that isn't training in profiling or psychology and again, these events are fake so all this did was re-traumatize these people and make Dahmer a fetishized idol for twisted people again.
Oh I hated the Nightstalker storyline so much. He was used as a B plot to prop up his boring protagonist while real victims of his did unfortuntely were murdered.
I will defend the show in that nothing they showed made Dahmer understandable.
It’s common sense not to understand anything he did and be horrified and disgusted for killing those people. What exactly did they do in the show to make him understandable?
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
@@whoknowswhocares885 Making the show centered around him, showing a backstory, basically creating a narrative like "This is what created the monster", also the whole thing I saw in this video(did not watch the series because I think it's exploitation) acting like he had this relationship and might rehabilitate because of one of his victims. All of this stuff is fiction, that was a real person, the victims were real but they're making up this backstory and, whether intended or not, it serves to humanize someone that should just be left to fade from the collective memory but no, we keep getting stuff like this that is nothing but disrespectful to the victims and their loved ones so they can cash in on a real tragedy and turn it into fiction for entertainment. There is no defense, nothing positive came from this and nothing positive will come from any other Dahmer shows at this point.
@@mismismism
You didn’t watch the show and yet made an opinion without any context?
Your taking this at face value?
They showed his upbringing and the circumstances which set up his beginning to be a murderer, they never made anyone understand him or what he did. The only explanation that can be concluded was that he wanted to kill because he figured no one would care. Nothing he did was responsible and no one except people as crazy as him can find that understandable because most people are born with common sense. I would say this show cared more about presenting the trauma he left on the families of his victims more then other past documentaries about Dahmer. That is something many of the shows and movies failed to do, make people understand others suffered because they lost loved ones at his hands. I get the families disapproval of this show, but depiction of the trauma left by a serial killer is necessary, it shows he made others suffer and he shouldn’t be worshipped for it. The ones who are, are in a minority that the public does their best to suppress because it’s common sense not to feed crazy people more influence to be more crazy. This show made you see that regardless of the innocent people he came upon there was nothing that made reason for him to kill them aside from his sick obsession. It wasn’t just murders of random people. But people with lives personality and families. Even if that love story is fictional and they do humanize him, it isn’t to wipe him clean of murdering people with the hope that he could rehabilitate, it’s to show that Dahmer although horrible was human and he blended in as human. It was to horrify the audience because it showed how much of a monster he was, he could bring innocent people at ease and all he wanted in the end was to kill and disregard everything else about them.
I feel so sorry for families. Who have to relive it all over, each time a Film, or Documentary. Comes out about him. The focus is all about him, not the victims, and the families.
I have never watched the show, but it has affected me, people have compared me to Jeffrey Dahmer because we have a similar appearance. I have dealt with my own mental health issues in the past and being compared to a serial killer doesn't help.
Literally mood. I wear aviator glasses, have an 80s aesthetic, and have an interest in anatomy, physiology, and dissection. I kind of just have been existing as some odd guy all my life, with the odd true crime fan going “Dahmer? Omg you’re Dahmer!” and we have a laugh (as I’m a true crime fan myself, but more casually than some of these weirdos), but now it’s like a LOT more people and many of these people are a lot more intense about it and like, I’m just some guy trying to go about my life???? Leave me alone?????? I’m out here just trying to buy milk, fam…
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I hope it’s not happening still
ok dahmer
@@asdasdqwet9893 How old are you?
I’m blonde and have been told by multiple strangers that I look like dahmer. I take it as a compliment, because most people think of Evan Peters when they think of Dahmer. Who doesn’t want to look like Evan Peters?
The absolute worst is how they’re now teasing a John Wayne Gacy show. A CINEMATIC UNIVERSE ON CRAZED KILLERS
The end game of the movies will be Dahmer, Tedd Bundy, and Gacy getting a cake for satan
Ngl would watch
Lol that's the only way I would subscribe back to Netflix, regardless yeah it shouldn't have been made because Netflix has already done a great job of documentary of many serial killers like Dahmer, Gacey and Bundy.
I just wonder who in their right mind would think, “We should create a show about Jeffery Dahmer.” And the crazy part is the fact that people actually like it
@@angelnieto316no
the scene in the court was insanely disturbing trying to replicate that woman’s grief
You mean mocking the poor woman?
Telling her story
@@ireneedmonds4712 it’s not telling her story when there is already video of it though is it
@@ireneedmonds4712 She asked for the scene/show to not exist. Sometimes a story really doesn't need to be told when it'll do far more harm than good, especially when the owner of the story is telling you not to.
@@midnight4685you mean someone who was actually a part of the story
Worst part for me was when the show tried to take a turn into social commentary. You don't dig up a story that was this overused, overexploited, where the families were tormetend because everyone kept talking about it and profiting off of it, MAKE ANOTHER SHOW ABOUT IT, filming it like it's any big budget movie and THEN act like you have any right to make it a social commentary on the events and on how terrible it was that everyone kept jumping on the train.
Like the fucking lack of self awareness my god.
They probably didn't give us much background on Tracey, the guy who escaped Dahmer, because he had a criminal record, and ironically enough went on to be a murderer himself. So idk what they could've done to flesh out his character anymore than they did without 1. Down playing his crimes/ignoring them or 2. Telling the truth, and letting the majority of people who don't know, know what he did. I think either way it would've made his character worse in the show since it's supposedly a sympathetic showing of his victims, and that would make me most feel less sympathetic towards him. However that's just this one case for this one victim. I understand why the other victims are mad.
Tracey was one of the two victims that escaped. they could have focused on the other one
@@opalminx8240 I mean they did at least give us some more back story with that whole family. If I remember correctly we didn't hear back from Tracey the rest of the show lmao. But they could've done more with that story, I agree on that.
@Belle R. exactly and they got the details wrong with Tracy as well.
What he did after that point is completely irrelevant as to what is being talked about here.
@@mechanomics2649 it wasn't just after. He had a criminal record prior to Dahmer. Had they brought up Tracey's backstory, they woulda had to bring that up, and that wouldn't be a good look for the show as it paints Tracey out as a criminal, instead of a victim. So in his case, I think it was best they started and stopped his story where they did. Media woulda ate the directors ass if they put that shit out there on top of all the other fuck ups this shows managed to pull off lol. But the only reason I bring up Tracey specifically, is because the creator of the video asked about why they didn't give him more back story. However, I don't know much about the other victims, but I'm sure there was PLENTY they coulda done with them. So I can understand why people are a little upset about that part.
I haven’t even watched the show but seeing clips of Tony just being a guy with hopes and dreams and being excited about something made me tear up
this show made people go from "omg it's dahmer 😨😭" to "omg it's dahmer 😍🥴"
The actor being Evan peters who they find attractive doesn’t help either
@@Jacson_23 people tend to emphasize more with those who are better looking
Could be one reason or maybe the most obvious one.
Hate these people
@@Jacson_23 the real Dahmer was handsome 🤷🏽♀️
@@dlilwon many serial killers were handsome, however the show shouldn't have emphasized it so much.
Usually a show like this should emphasize the ugliness of the charector's actions.
@@Jacson_23 the real Dahmer was cute
I'm not done with the video yet so idk if he's gonna mention it but Jeffrey Dahmer is one of the most adapted real life serial killer stories I've ever witnessed. There are already so many other movies and books detailing his life. I didn't really understand why he needed yet another publication of his atrocities, but seeing that the intention was more towards the victims, I guess I can understand. But still, if they really wanted to shift the focus entirely to the victims, they shouldn't have called it Dahmer and marketed it the way they did.
Silence of the Lambs kind of proves the point that to understand Dahmer means to be Dahmer. Hannibal guides Clarice throughout her case because he himself is a cannibalistic murderer. In a sense, every comment he makes about the killer is a comment on himself: "Garden variety manic depression" that's how he feels about his own state of mind- that both humanizes him and proves that he has no idea that he's actually diagnosing himself. A story like Silence of the Lambs would be a great way to write the Dahmer story through the lense of someone else without making it sound like every story ever told about Dahmer...
Hard disagree, you can understand serial killers and cannibals without being one. The notion that "you need to be to understand" is pretty dumb.
@@sentientbeing8738 you can get an elementarily vague concept of what they are, but that's about it. People assume just because they've considered something they understand the concept... That's dumb.
If people truly understood it, then they share the blame of the crimes for not intervening. They don't... At all. A tiny glimpse and a total understanding aren't synonymous.
Most are fascinated with murderers because most people have imagined killing some shitty person in their life... Far fewer have walked in that world.
Like it or not, it does take one to know one. Otherwise it's just some armchair commentator projecting their assumptions based on what they believe they would've acted like in an alternate reality.
@@thetruthisonlyperspective4872 Emotions and also the lack of are complex but they are able to be understood, you can find reasons behind actions. Psychologists do it all the time. To varying degrees of course, some are better than others. "If people truly understood it, then they share the blame of the crimes for not intervening." The hell does this mean? Are you implying understanding of why bad actions are done means you can stop it? Hahaha. No.
@@sentientbeing8738 what don't you understand? Either you're a killer and you understand or you are only making assumptions. I shouldn't need to dumb it down to this extent, even in the internet.
@@thetruthisonlyperspective4872 And that way of thinking is silly. I should have expected arrogance from you based on your edgy and pathetic username lmao. Also it seems you were the one unable to understand ME. Its very obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that me saying "The hell does this mean?" was in reference to your blame sharing comment. Please never type again.
MindHunter is a tragically underrated show that came to a premature end. I wanted at least three more seasons.
I knowwww. It didn’t have to end with no resolution and shouldn’t have and now for the rest of time it’ll never have an ending. And the tragically funny part of this is that it’s also a Netflix Original and yet they couldn’t let it run it’s course, but THIS thing gets allowed to get made.
@@da3m0nic_79 Netflix greenlit the show for more seasons and it was popular. the problem is the actors contracts expired and i don't think all of them were renewed.
I think the second season really torched that, to me it just did not work and slowly killed my interest
In fairness, the parents of the Children murdered in the Atlanta Child Murders didn't okay them covering that situation either. So, as much as it portrays everything in a much better way than Dahmer, it's guilty of the same thing.
@@carnuatusBut they didn't glorify anything. They made it seem horrifying as it was and they rightfully pointed out that Wayne Williams was probably not responsible for ALL of the deaths.
I think the show mirrors the experience of someone invested in true crime. first, you come for the gruesome parts. you start to humanize the murderer, become interested in his childhood. you might avoid the victims' perspective for a bit but once you whatched every dahmer interview and read every biography, you satrt to wonder about the victims and the community dahmer's crimes affected. and finally you reach the conclusion that there cannot be a reason and you have to keep yourself from thinking about dahmer. I liked the part where you said that in order to understand someone like dahmer, you have to become him. and that is pointless at best. and so is this show: it's not the perspective of dahmer, his father, the victims nor their families. it's ryan murphy's experience of his own dahmer fascination phase
and I feel like this is exactly what we should get out of it. who made this and why? I guess that is what the video is asking, but character analysis on Ryan Murphy are too few and far between imo. He very much comes off as someone who's actually expressing himself through his art rather than some kind of genius at framing other stories through it.
this is random but the piano music in the background in the intro was so soothing
It’s called “Beneath the Mask-rainy day”
From a game called Persona 5
The song is "Tears of..." from the Silent Hill soundtrack. The comment above me is referring to the song that plays after.
@@zalamazu Thank you!!!
I hate the fact that they added so much fiction because people are really stupid and don’t do research. So they take the show as history
I have seen so many people call this an "educational documentary" when it isn't in the slightest
@@Emma-ei2zk ok.
@@iybizuku1366 ok.
@@kinghades3356 ok.
@@Emma-ei2zk ok
my brother watched the series and was horrified by it. however, i had to remind him several times that this was an actual serial killer and the victims were actual people. i said several times that he should really just... watch a documentary if he wanted to learn about dahmer. not some super dramatized tv show about a twisted horror character with a half fabricated story.
nothing was fabricated lol
In my opinion, I thought the first episode was really good. Really engaging and really made feel terrified for the victim who could potentially be Dahmer's next murder victim and really had a grip on me. But as I continued the series, it made me feel that the show was trying to have us understand why Dahmer became who he was and have a sense of pity and around ep 5 was when I gave up because I was turned off. The victims felt more like plot devices to Dahmer's big story which is kinda disrespectful. They are not Dahmer's stepping stones. They were actual human beings who had lives and purposes in this world.
Good for you. I'm sure the world clapped and cheered at your bravery
Why bother to watch a show when you were just on your phone the whole time anyways on the internet?
You just waste your time
@@Mr_Mistah what the fuck's your problem
@@Mr_Mistah damn, why are you so offended about an opinion that clearly doesn't concern you
"The victims felt more like plot devices to Dahmer's big story which is kinda disrespectful." ---->> ?????????????????
I did not feel as if this show tried to show pity for Dahmer. That is on YOU if you feel the slightest bit of sympathy. I did not feel sympathy at all, I just saw a monster who destroyed his victims' lives and their families.
I hate how people think it's normal to romanticize serial killers, even in fiction. It's disgusting on so many levels
The Dahmer memoir puts it really well, the writer pretty much saying he felt empathy for Dahmer until he committed his first murder.
That goes for almost all serial killers. They are a victim until they are not
I cried for hours and hours after watching it. Especially the death of the deaf man, it was so painful to even think about. So many bright, kind, and beautiful people ripped away from loving families. I’m not a hateful person but… I Hate that freak of human history. I’m glad the other Inmate got a hold of him and gave him a brutal and horrific end.
Don’t let history take such emotional control over you
Pathetic 😂
Im sorry there's so many sociopath in your comments section, u right im really sad for the family and felt bad for all of them
How can she's pathetic when what she saying is showing empathy for the VICTIM
Empathy in one hand and vengeance in the other.
Odd how closely those two emotions are associated.
Notice how you only remember him as "the deaf man"?
I refuse to watch it because of how immoral the making of this show is. The way they really just spat in the face of the victims and their families... this whole thing feels so wrong. But am I surprised? Not at all... I am very much interested in true crime, I watch a lot of documentaries, true crimes shows that recount aweful stories in a respectful way and to bring awareness, and just criminology papers and research in general. But this was such a wrong move from them...
This show is really not that different from any other true crime documentary, still all ultimately about finding entertainment in the suffering of real life people, still about the creators making a profit off of that suffering, sure some frame the stories in a way that are more "respectful" of the victims than others, but they are all doing the same thing regardless, they are all very close to the same level in terms of immorality.
@@jpeg204 I think it's important to at least get the permission from the family members of the victims before making a show or movie about the events that affected them
Sorry but I have yet to find a true crime series that wasn't just exploitation via reliving all the lurid details of a real crime, to satisfy people's morbid curiosity. It's nothing new, and I won't pretend like I haven't indulged, but people need to be honest with themselves. It's ALL exploiting others' suffering
@@Hrybread honestly i agree, from horror movies based on real life events to youtube channels talking about certain cases. It's all exploitative no matter which way you look at it. I remember becoming sick after seeing that a museum had an exhibit of Ted Bundy's car, it's like they are treating him like he's some type of artist or something.
@@Hrybread The only "true crime" I've ever heard of that was done right are the coverages by Ask A Mortician for the tragedy that inspired Moby Dick, and the sinking of the Fitzgerald which actually had her VISIT the memorial museum about it and meet family, and talked about the ethics of diving to explore the shipwreck and the living relatives' opinion about it.
When asking “who is this made for?”. I think one has to look at what the series is. How it is framed, how it’s told and so on. And in this case, to me it is unquestionably a horror series.
i couldn't watch dahmer because one time, i wanted to read about how the police were so negligent on the case...and i unfortunately stumbled on a blog that showed what the police saw....and the actual photos...it was so horrifying and disgusting knowing that this was just available to be seen for everyone. i really cannot imagine the pain the victims' families must be going through
Are you saying that photos of his victims are just out there on the internet for random people to see??? What is wrong with people????
Internet forums pre 2006 would have given you an instant heart attack.
@@bigdigs2233I’m so sorry we’re not as cool and brave as you so as to enjoy seeing gore of real life murder victims. I guess we can’t all be as cool as you
@@lavenderhuman damn, they don't teach reading comprehension anymore. Where did I say I enjoyed it?
@@bigdigs2233 Reading comprehension? The post your replied to said they were horrified and disgusted of the fact that the photos were made public. Not how they personally reacted to the photos.
For a better, more considered series about a real-life serial killer, I’d definitely recommend Des, a three-part drama from the UK about Dennis Nilssen, a murderer who has a lot of similarities to Jeffrey Dahmer. It starts as Nilssen is arrested and IIRC doesn’t flash back, so none of the crimes are shown. The detectives and victims are the focus, with Nilssen having a minor role and being shown as very manipulative and arrogant. He’s played absolutely brilliantly by David Tennant and is a very vivid character, but there’s no attempt to explain away his actions and he’s as hateful and abhorrent as his crimes. There’s an absolutely heartbreaking scene where a man Dennis sexually abused speaks out in court that has stayed with me for a very long time. It’s written by Jeff Pope, who does a lot of true crime dramas in the UK, but seems to work with the victims’ families as much as possible and his shows are often as sensitive and ethical as a true crime drama can be.
Was also going to mention this. I think British productions about real serial killers generally tend to be better. The film with Richard Attenborough and John Hurt, 10 Rillington Place is great too, as are See No Evil (Moors Murders) and Appropriate Adult (Fred and Rose West). They depict the murderers as humans but evil, whereas I think the US productions tend to be too dramatic and try to humanize the murderers but in a way that is too simplistic which just makes them sympathetic rather than depicting the complexity of human evil. You see this issue with fictional villains too, they try to make them "complex" but often it's just simplistic sympathetic origins, which show no real understanding.
Yeah, as much as I like Dahmer the series, I do consider Des a better drama. It is also extremely cerebral. Which I don't think mainstream/Netflix viewers would necessarily appreciate...
@@MidnightIsolde Not actually watched the others you mentioned but 10, Rillington Place was certainly great. Truly chilling and depressing, as it should have been.
"Respect the victims" *Proceeds to paint Dahmer's first victim as a homophobe with no evidence; then giving him the most brutal on screen death*
i think the youtube's part where movie reviewers can't stop talking about the Dahmer series and every day, there's several videos about the series and analyzing it and reviewing it are also part of the problem. People are becoming way too obsessed with the series that they can't stop talking about it and making videos on it like this one. They are contributing to the problem and its absolute hypocrisy. The world will be a much better place once the show stops trending and people stop talking about it and making videos on it.
"Homophobe" I'm pretty sure that is how most people would react
@@iknowexactlywhoyouare8701 Yes we are at the point where every youtuber with NO experiences whatsoever in theater or movies industry is thinking he's a good film critic. While basically expressing their political beliefs.
@@GaiusCaligula234 Yeah now not wanting an homo sexual intercourse is now ''homophobic''.
@@MidnightatMidian he literally called him a f*ggot, did you even watch the show?
Being born and raised only 40 minute's away from Milwaukee. I refused to watch this show. This still affects the locals to this day and the victims family's. Growing up it wasnt too uncommon to know someone who either lived near by or even meet the guy. Its not a good feeling knowing that absolute monster was so close. We dont want this and its absolutely disgusting how sensationalized he's become. We stand with the victims and their families.
The best part is that Ryan Murphy is announcing a cinematic universe based on this show. Profits > morality as always.
2 more seasons, I'm wondering who's going to be next? Probably Gacy and... Bundy? BTK? Green River Killer? Richard Ramirez?
@@aaronuzcategui287 Morality is a luxury for those who spend their lives sheltered.
This is for entertaiment. They can talk about 911 and the work of ISIS and paint them in good light and it'll still be okay because "MORALS" is a pansy's right.
Can't wait for Phase 2 where they group together and fight a big bad guy
This ain’t the 1st…. Murphy did the Versace Killer too…. From that one, I knew to avoid this…. Then again, I prefer actual documentaries
I mean if your seeing stuff that you don’t like , maybe you look away? Or maybe you keep looking at it maybe even watch it . Lmao brainless. I’m obviously not discrediting the victims feeling but come on dude 😐 ARE YOU GONNA STARE AT THE SUN OR LOOK AWAY ?
What disgusts me the most about the Dahmer series is the fangirls that flocked to the show. I won't deny that serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy (the ones I can name off the top of my head) did have fangirls whilst they were alive and even after they had been convicted and sentenced for their crimes. However, there's something odd about getting a man like Evan Peters (a man that has many fangirls on TikTok predominantly) to play a horrific serial killer in a Netflix series that really did not do the victims and their families justice. But maybe that's just me and my inability to fall in love with people who kill others.
not just girls idiot. guys too
The real young Jeffrey Dahmer was pretty good looking, and Evan Peters is one of the best and most experienced horror actors of this generation. Most famous actors and serial killers have fangirls. It's not weird that they cast him.
@@autumnatic Perhaps you're right, and Evan Peters did do a good job. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to play a serial killer, especially such a notorious and fucked up one such as Dahmer. However, I don't like how the show writers literally used Evan's good looks and his body for more "intimate" scenes, if you will (for example, when he was working out and we quite literally got shots of his upper abdomen.) The directors and the show writers knew what they were doing.
Hell, what shocked/frustrated me as a black person the most was the black men that were thirsting over this show when Dahmer would have unalived them, like what are we doing here 🥴
@@rhxenyand? Hollywood has a long history of equating ugliness to evil. While not the first movie to do so the Dahmer movie flips this on it's head. Terrible people can be beautiful.
Something that really struck me the wrong way was that they decided to change things about the real story. That made it feel like it was in bad taste
what did they change?
@@aprilmisc from 13:00-17:50 is a whole segment discussing how the show makes up stuff
I only ever watched the first episode. I felt really uncomfortable once I started thinking about the gravity and implications of a show like this. For starters, it already felt like I had stumbled upon something private that I shouldn’t be watching. Once I realized none of the families were on board with this, I never picked it up again. I just felt like doing so would be disrespectful to the people who ACTUALLY endured his terror.
We need to start calling murder cases by those who were murdered and not the killers.
Some true crime youtubers are indeed doing that. Contents aside, it's a good move.
No we do not
Is that how the victims would want to be remembered tho
I'm so glad you talked about Silenced. It marks the point where I decided that Dahmer was a bad show. I really liked the way the episode was going, but as I was watching it, I realized it was feeling a bit too...fabricated for me. I actually paused to go research the ACTUAL story of Tony and yeah, wasn't too happy with what I found. Why is their best episode the one that felt most fake? I feel like there's more to be said about that, but I am not clever enough to word it properly.
Before this series came out I found out years ago Jeffrey Dahmer was being loved by different people. Those type of people that send serial killers love letters while their in prison. This series just made more people realize those weird people exist that are obsessed with real life serial killers.
I find it super annoying that Hollywood regurgitates the same story of serial killers (Dahmer, Zodiac, Bundy, etc) add new info that we found out though the years, market it as “the true, real, untold, story of killer”. And does the usual Hollywood thing of making the killer photogenic, add “fluff” and sanitize other parts. But I think the worst part about all of this is that ,we the people, clap our hands and tell Hollywood that we want more of this, that we want the same story, we want hotter actors, we want to pay to dehumanize the already dead victims (and their families)