Is this the BEST Titanium Road Bike? Why I'd Choose it Over Carbon

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  • Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 117

  • @LukeRichardson1981
    @LukeRichardson1981 10 месяцев назад +4

    Love my Waltly custom Ti road bike. Looks great, rides great, and super comfortable even on really long days in the saddle. Would never replace it with a carbon bike.

  • @minimedic7749
    @minimedic7749 10 месяцев назад +5

    Glad the Blackheart is getting some praise. I didn't know about them until after I purchased my Aethos. Hard to say what I would've picked had I known about both prior.

  • @cameronfrancis5975
    @cameronfrancis5975 10 месяцев назад +7

    Well done review, I have had mine since August, I’ve got about 2000 miles on it and I would echo your review pretty much verbatim!

  • @aaronedgeart
    @aaronedgeart 10 месяцев назад +3

    Love titanium for road/gravel builds and happy it's getting some more praise here.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      It’s an awesome bike.

  • @purklefluff
    @purklefluff 10 месяцев назад +12

    They look good, they don't corrode, I want one (this is a fact 😅) but as others have said here, the thing about ride quality is more of an urban myth than a reality.
    The differences people may have historically noticed won't have been down to the materials themselves, but the size, shape and wall-thickness of the tubing. If you made four frames of alu, steel, Ti and carbon all with identical size, shape and wall-thickness tubes in the same frame design you'd get near identical feedback as a rider from the frame. Difficulties in manufacturing splinter the materials somewhat, because it's hard to make a steel bike with anything except round tubing (give or take a few exceptions) and Ti is the same. This is ultimately what people are referring to when they praise the smooth ride quality of both materials, essentially thin round tubing is what they are in love with 😂.
    Also, carbon fork, carbon or flexy seatpost, the angle of both giving varied amounts of fore/aft deflection relative to other bikes, good set of wheels and most importantly tyres will account for dang near all of the ride feel you're mentioning here
    If blackheart made a compliant, fast, gorgeous bike, I think we can just congratulate them on an extremely well done job with all the important details that provide those qualities, rather than get all hand-wavey and mystical about the properties of Ti. That's a disservice to the bike builders

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +2

      Good take. Who’s your favorite builder?

    • @purklefluff
      @purklefluff 10 месяцев назад +4

      @@outdoorbros_ ooh, tricky. There's a lot of small builders who should be celebrated and do incredible work, but are tricky recommends to a global market/audience.
      On a more accessible level, I've always rated bikes by Shand and Kinesis, and I think Sonder make a good budget bike too. At the higher end I've definitely been into the specialised crux in terms of my personal ideal bike shed. Time are probably making the best carbon bikes money can buy though, they are crazy good.
      Jack laverack make a good titanium frame, blackheart seem very comparable it's great to see

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад

      @@purklefluff checking them out now, thanks!

    • @blackheartbikeco
      @blackheartbikeco 10 месяцев назад

      🖤Thanks for the love

  • @Harrison.Michael
    @Harrison.Michael 3 месяца назад

    Soon as I saw you rode through “the cobbles of Newport” I almost immediately knew I needed this bike as the cobbles of Newport are a part of my daily ride 😂

  • @user-cx2bk6pm2f
    @user-cx2bk6pm2f 10 месяцев назад +2

    Glad to see Blackheart getting some press. Awesome bikes!

  • @tomka5714
    @tomka5714 10 месяцев назад +6

    +1 for a Ti Frame. These are lifetime frames, just upgrade components as they wear out. No paint to chip, just polish out the scuffs. Switched from carbon years ago and never looked back.

    • @Lotustro
      @Lotustro 10 месяцев назад +3

      The welds crack eventually.

    • @bonbonflippers4298
      @bonbonflippers4298 10 месяцев назад +3

      ​@@Lotustroall materials crack. Just which one will last over time based on usage and accidents/crashes or corrosion.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +2

      Great points!

  • @pedalingprimemover
    @pedalingprimemover 10 месяцев назад +2

    Nice shot of Ridgecrest in Marin at 1:53 :) Such a beautiful road

  • @jmin-f1g
    @jmin-f1g 10 месяцев назад +3

    I 'll be getting a Ti road bike when I am 65, when being faster doesnt matter any more.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      Which bike do you ride now?

  • @angelortiz353
    @angelortiz353 2 месяца назад

    Blackheart road ti perhaps best bike i ever owned, i think it all depends on the rider im coming from an endurance bike and this bike simply smoked it, i usually ride on a group ride 22-23 and this has no issues keeping up been that it feels more stable with less effort its a less forgiving on your body super happy with the bike highly recommended💪💪💪thanks for the review

  • @joeszeto310
    @joeszeto310 9 месяцев назад

    "Cobbles of Newport".. :) I use that section to do my "shake-downs" on new builds. And boy will that shake your bike!

  • @WillPower46
    @WillPower46 10 месяцев назад +3

    I feel the same way about my Ribble Titanium Endurance road bike.

  • @AceMBP
    @AceMBP 10 месяцев назад +7

    Unfortunately the weight gap between carbon and Ti is growing. By my calc's roughly 800+ grams heavier than my Crux(825 gr).
    I used to travel with a Moots around Asia... For travel and rough use Ti is great choice.

  • @888jucu
    @888jucu 10 месяцев назад +1

    I believe the fork rake angle and top tube angle play its part also in absorbing vibrations etc. Back in the old steel bike days we had curved forks with large rake (no toes would touch your tyre etc) and I recall the ride was plush and handling good also but presumably this resulted in less stiffness and hence margjnally slower bike 🤷‍♂️

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      It’s funny how minor differences change the feel of the bike, isn’t it?

  • @ryandodd8941
    @ryandodd8941 6 месяцев назад +2

    I would be curious to see if the frame material actually effects ride feel. I know that it is something that people say but got to ride a ton of bikes when I worked as a mechanic and I could never convince myself that different frame materials had any effect. If they did it was 0.1% of the difference that changing tires has. When manufactures claim compliance numbers for their frames they always test them with a seatpost. I have yet to see a frame that is more compliant than the seat post they use during the test. I don't buy that the frame material effects cornering. That has to be down to placebo or microscopic differences in geometry.

  • @lukewalker1051
    @lukewalker1051 10 месяцев назад +20

    As a mechanical engineer who has been at road cycling for decades and owned a fair amount of all materials.
    1. Carbon is king for ride, handling and speed, energy management aka stiffness and weight due to superior strength to stiffness relative to weight and most importantly, differential frame section modulus aka a carbon frame can be molded to a preferred shape unlike Titanium.
    2. Aluminum is better than Ti because it can be made lighter and hydroformed unlike Ti.
    I would much prefer a CAAD13 frameset to your Ti bike. Both have a carbon fiber fork btw.
    3. Ti is heavier than Aluminum but slightly stronger and so weight ends up being close but doesn't ride better than carbon fiber or hydoformed Al. That is a fallacy. Also Ti doesn't ride better than steel. Steel ends up being heavier and why it is the least preferred material.
    My opinion as a material expert who understands frame materials and most importantly, mechanical engineering which is the nexus of material yield strength, modulus of elasticity, material density and most important, moment of inertia aka a frames propensity to bend based upon its wall section and its localized tube section shape in cross section which can be varied for both carbon fiber and aluminum but not Ti and Steel...afore mentioned is why major bike brands, Specialized, Trek, Giant, Bianchi, BMC, Cannondale...all of them... have carbon fiber and Aluminum at the top of their list. If Ti was preferred, top bike brands would make Ti frames because they aren't shy about overcharging the public for their bicycles. They don't.
    Boutique voodoo.

    • @NoahStephens
      @NoahStephens 10 месяцев назад +2

      This is really well reasoned. Salute.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      Good intel! If I ever do an episode on frame materials, I’d like to have you join.

    • @kenbuist1
      @kenbuist1 3 месяца назад

      Well said. @PeakTorque is also an engineer, and he also debunks the myths of Ti frames. Re: Carbon, I've found some of the older carbon frames are better at dampening road vibrations (most likely because they were not so freakishly light, and had more carbon in the frame). Latest carbon frames seem too stiff and harsh IMO - the wall thickness is so minimal that there isn't much carbon to diffuse road buzz and there is zero flex. I'm also skeptical of the supposed benefits of hi-mod carbon for most riders - yes it's very strong, stiff and light, but not comfortable IMO. I've even read that some pros choose not to ride the hi-mod versions of their team bikes (although they don't make a lot of noise about it, for obvious reasons $$) You're correct about hydroformed Alu - I've got a Alu gravel bike that's fantastic to ride.

  • @thedronescene7474
    @thedronescene7474 10 месяцев назад +1

    I own a Moots Vamoots CRD and is the best bike I have ever ridden.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад

      Looks like an incredible bike.

  • @stephenjewitt9009
    @stephenjewitt9009 4 месяца назад

    Nice to some chatter on titanium. I have lynski with carbon fork and rims. I was expecting a bit more of a quality ride, but my other bikes are very nice as well. I put fater tires on for a better ride and want a suspension stem for poor quality roads. I did change the seat from a more expensive one to one more suited to my sit bones. The smoothest ride is my geurcotti aluminium by Alan in Italy. My carbon colnago is a very nice ride as well. I think titanium is still a good thing, but my current cycling is mostly on my electric ktm mountain bike on trails, which is a bit of a bus in comparison.
    I think getting the bike after having a proper fitting is the best way to go and get good cycling shoes if you think you might get serious or want to get more out of your cycling.
    Test the bikes, and you might be surprised where you end up. You might go up or down in budget to hit the sweet spot that is right and just ride it.
    I have seen some busted carbon bikes and am glad if they have not been mine.

  • @seanism2011
    @seanism2011 10 месяцев назад +5

    Cant any material be tuned to exhibit whatever the desired ride quality is?

    • @redkeyspoke
      @redkeyspoke 10 месяцев назад +1

      Consider rubber, cheese, or even diamond or glass. Still think so?

    • @petersouthernboy6327
      @petersouthernboy6327 10 месяцев назад +1

      Look up Young’s Modulus OP

    • @nerooweb
      @nerooweb 25 дней назад

      yes and this has been proven, most of frame driven riding comfort is marketing nonsens

  • @seanmccuen6970
    @seanmccuen6970 10 месяцев назад +4

    dude, I 'challenge' you to review Blackheart's All Road Ti frameset set up as an everyday/versatile road bike (not a race bike) with fast, light wheel/tire package (30mm tires). this frameset straddles the line between gravel bike/endurance road bike/'classic' road bike. again , not a race bike, just a really good, versatile everyday all-rounder that is quick and well mannered and about 18.5 pounds ready to ride.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +2

      I’m intrigued by it. I’ll reach out and see if I can demo one in the future.

    • @seanmccuen6970
      @seanmccuen6970 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@outdoorbros_ no revelations; you'd conclude it's a quickish handling, light-gravel/all road bike that can work very well as a (non-race) road bike. I think it's noteworthy today because it's Ti and straddles light dirt and pure road duties very well.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      @@seanmccuen6970 I’m on it. Thanks!

    • @seanmccuen6970
      @seanmccuen6970 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@outdoorbros_ shameless admission; I own one, and it's my current primary bike!

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      @@seanmccuen6970 nothing shameless about it. Stoked for ya!

  • @davidlenneberg4303
    @davidlenneberg4303 10 месяцев назад +1

    Nice looking Ti bike, I would’ve preferred it had a 27.2 seat post but you can’t have everything I gather it’s electronic only as it has a integrated handlebars and headset not the greatest for running mechanical it can be done internally but depends on how big the hole are from the head tube to the down tube Interested to know if it works on this bike good review 👍😊

    • @cameronfrancis5975
      @cameronfrancis5975 10 месяцев назад +2

      I’ve got one, mechanical is a no go unfortunately. There isn’t clearance in the headset, nor is it set up for cable guides in the bottom bracket or drive side chain stay.

  • @khchan8341
    @khchan8341 6 месяцев назад

    This is a pretty bike. I ride the Van Nicholas Skeiron on 28mm tires. Tbh, on 28mm, it doesn't ride much better than my caad13. But i just love the look of this bike. Not a fan of carbon ... Too fragile.

  • @tihojla9
    @tihojla9 10 месяцев назад +4

    I cant agree that titanium absorbs bumps better than the carbon, because it flex less.

    • @TheNotSoFakeNews
      @TheNotSoFakeNews 10 месяцев назад +4

      From an engineering point of view titanium, aluminium and carbon frames have exactly the same ability to absorb bumps. Which is to say, almost no ability at all. How smooth the ride is dominated by tyre choice and pressure. There is very little in the way of suspension from a traditional bike frame whatever the material it is. Seatpost design makes some difference, but it's mainly tyre choice and pressure.

    • @bonbonflippers4298
      @bonbonflippers4298 10 месяцев назад +4

      ​@@TheNotSoFakeNews"dominated by tire and tire pressure"
      I did an experiment on this with every component the same including frame geometry on 2 bikes: Titanium and steel.
      As a test I used the exact same tires/psi and wheelset. To make it as uncomfortable as possible I used continental gatorskins at 100psi 25c on aluminum wheels with 17internal.
      The Titanium bike both rode smoother and stiffer than the steel. Both frames were custom built to exact specs as close as possible. The steel was customized in every tubing used. The Titanium was limited to certain butting.
      So in science yes the tires, wheels and psi make the ride not the material. But my testing of over 1k miles each...beg to differ.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      Great experiment!

    • @hamedizzy5137
      @hamedizzy5137 26 дней назад

      @@TheNotSoFakeNewswon’t absorb bumps but it absorbs vibration better for sure. At least this bike was more compliant then any carbon bike I’ve ridden

  • @VendetaBrown
    @VendetaBrown 10 месяцев назад +3

    How does a properly packed carbon bike in a bike bag crack?

    • @petersouthernboy6327
      @petersouthernboy6327 10 месяцев назад

      Oh jeez - watch any F-1 or Indy Car race 😅

    • @harryparkinson
      @harryparkinson 10 месяцев назад

      Was likely in a cloth bike bag or cardboard box

  • @2012potroloco
    @2012potroloco 10 месяцев назад +2

    wonder why road racers only choose carbon frames, none of the teams in tour de france or any other race use titanium. Maybe pricing?

    • @Shadowboost
      @Shadowboost 10 месяцев назад +4

      All out speed. Not many stiff Ti bikes out there at 6.8 kg

    • @theBFactor
      @theBFactor 10 месяцев назад +1

      Weight savings! Carbon gets lighter than they allow so they have to add weight. Also, aerodynamics in carbon shape over ti typical round. I have both ti and carbon and I wish I did the ti first and saved all the money on my carbon bike 😅

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      Agreed with @shadowboost. It’s a speed, weight and overall race performance decision to go with carbon.

  • @jimtro4403
    @jimtro4403 10 месяцев назад +3

    Wow, that bike sounds a little unbelievable!!! Magical maybe?

    • @plantsofwar8834
      @plantsofwar8834 10 месяцев назад +1

      It's simply a compliant road bike, what's magical about that?

    • @jimtro4403
      @jimtro4403 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@plantsofwar8834 Did you watch the video? It's either magical or the bikes he is comparing it to were designed by the Flintstones!!! Sorry the accolades were a little over the top for any bike!

    • @plantsofwar8834
      @plantsofwar8834 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@jimtro4403 yes I did. Nothing was over the top, he just described the experience of a compliant road bike, as it compared to the stiffer bikes he typically rides.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      Did I say magical? I don’t go that far.

  • @rafacycle
    @rafacycle 8 месяцев назад

    How about using titanium bike as gravel bike ? Sounds like perfect sense to me …? Wouldn’t you change your crux for something like this?

  • @litespud
    @litespud 3 месяца назад

    Looks like a great bike, but enough about the “magic Ti ride” already. Tires and geometry (and the carbon fork) play much bigger roles in how the bike rides than the frame material. As for “lifetime bike” - sure, as long as tech doesn’t leave it behind. My #1 ride is a 2000 Litespeed - a fabulous bike that was a bona fide “superbike” in its day, looks as good as new now and will likely last me the rest of my life. However - no disk brakes, limited to 25mm tires, and mechanical or full wireless shifting only (no Di2) so yes, a “lifetime” bike - but only if you except that it will ultimately become a technological dead end. And I say all this as a fully committed Ti fanboy

  • @hockysa
    @hockysa 10 месяцев назад +1

    I wanna know how much it weighed

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +1

      I want to say 18.25 pounds.

  • @brianskies
    @brianskies 10 месяцев назад +1

    Looks nice, didn't know Titanium was more expensive than carbon :/

    • @petersouthernboy6327
      @petersouthernboy6327 10 месяцев назад +1

      And carbon wears out.

    • @krisbowditch827
      @krisbowditch827 10 месяцев назад

      Nice rig dude 👌😀🚴

    • @Shadowboost
      @Shadowboost 10 месяцев назад +2

      ​@@petersouthernboy6327 wrong

    • @seanmccuen6970
      @seanmccuen6970 10 месяцев назад

      @@petersouthernboy6327 that doesn't hold water. a well made carbon frame/fork with good QC and liberal material mass has an indefinite fatigue window and lifespan, even with big, hard miles. as for 'wearing out', you meant welded aluminum frames.

    • @petersouthernboy6327
      @petersouthernboy6327 10 месяцев назад

      @@seanmccuen6970 let google be your friend on this one. I’m right.

  • @tihojla9
    @tihojla9 10 месяцев назад +19

    I think this is one big commercial

    • @auricschiller
      @auricschiller 10 месяцев назад +6

      Too much bro science in the vid. Guy is riding his test on carbon bars and says TI is smoother, says bike is twitchy because of the material and not the geometry. We can def do better than this...

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад +2

      It’s just a look at a good bike.

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад

      Noted.

    • @pearbitch
      @pearbitch 6 месяцев назад

      cry

    • @romanmentor9238
      @romanmentor9238 5 месяцев назад

      you've been brainwashed by carbon marketers

  • @PInk77W1
    @PInk77W1 6 месяцев назад

    I own 6 TI bikes and no car

  • @nerooweb
    @nerooweb 28 дней назад

    The frame material doesn’t matter for ride comfort, stop believing this marketing nonsense

    • @hamedizzy5137
      @hamedizzy5137 26 дней назад

      LOL are you serious? Where did you read this for sure you don’t have real world experience!

    • @nerooweb
      @nerooweb 25 дней назад

      ​@@hamedizzy5137 you sure as hell also believe in 5.1 surround sound headsets when its just all made up marketing. Now tell me I was wrong with that assumptions. Some things are just made up fairy tales that exist to sell them to you. Titanium is a nice material but if you buy a 5k Ti Frame for its comfort then you are just a victim of marketing lies and capitalism.

  • @alainpryt9641
    @alainpryt9641 10 месяцев назад

    👏👏👏👍👍👍🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🚴🏻‍♂️🚴🏻‍♂️🚴🏻‍♂️

  • @dcartier1692
    @dcartier1692 3 месяца назад

    Moots.

  • @jesuscruz836
    @jesuscruz836 10 месяцев назад +6

    carbon is not "delicate"

    • @bonbonflippers4298
      @bonbonflippers4298 10 месяцев назад +1

      Anecdote experiences for me beg to differ....it's just my individual opinion but yes my carbon bikes cracked earlier than my steel or titanium. Carbon mtb is very durable, but these skinny thin walled road bikes aren't mtb durable

    • @outdoorbros_
      @outdoorbros_  10 месяцев назад

      How would you describe it vs titanium?

    • @derekbroussard
      @derekbroussard 9 месяцев назад

      carbon is very delicate in torquing and very strong when against the fibers.

    • @petersouthernboy6327
      @petersouthernboy6327 7 месяцев назад

      OP, look up the notch sensitivity for carbon composites. If cut, carbon fibers - even in a cured epoxy laminate matrix, carbon fiber can be fragile.

  • @benshane8455
    @benshane8455 10 месяцев назад

    This thing is good at one thing, and that’s descending. It’s so F’ing stiff that it will laser through any maneuver you want. Every other situation, very average. Like, an Allez Sprint is a better bike average.

  • @ytfjp
    @ytfjp 7 месяцев назад

    I think your promoting your face than of the bike

  • @timtaylor9590
    @timtaylor9590 10 месяцев назад +4

    ti ride quality has been universally debunked.

    • @redkeyspoke
      @redkeyspoke 10 месяцев назад +5

      Have you ridden a ti bike?

    • @timtaylor9590
      @timtaylor9590 10 месяцев назад +3

      @@redkeyspoke 2, both a buddies of mine, we all know that one guy right. Hes the reason I know this. Do you know why ti or a material like steel may feel nicer to ride. When you do then you'll see it's not the actual material itself, but I suppose you could say it's because of the material. Then there's the frame design itself which have very very little compliance as most of us know seat post deflection is the majority of compliance not the frame. Now if you think ti absorbs smaller vibrations from the road you're wrong because that won't make it past the tires. There's no magic involved it's simple science. The only trickery here is ti frame makers and buyers trying to justify the price, like most things in the bike industry it's just another noodle and meatball flex.

    • @redkeyspoke
      @redkeyspoke 10 месяцев назад +2

      @@timtaylor9590 I'll admit I haven't ridden one, so thanks for sharing your experience. The video specifically discusses a segment of road and how it feels, so maybe the marketing is creating a placebo effect, or maybe makers build (using tube shapes, butting, profiles) titanium bikes to have a certain expected quality and so the rider tends to get what they expect. 🤷‍♂️
      When it comes to material properties, from my understanding, some materials can be built to flex more without compromising absolute strength, e.g. aluminum bikes are inherently stiff, assuming they are built to withstand fatigue over long usage periods.
      I'll admit I'm not sure how stiffness correlates to vibration transmission, though I do know that a nylon guitar string and a steel guitar string tuned to the same frequency will have different tone (which I believe is a function of harmonic frequencies). Maybe that has a subjective impact on what the rider feels?
      BTW, grew up loving your show, Tool Man!

    • @timtaylor9590
      @timtaylor9590 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@redkeyspoke right on. The tube size is the biggest factor on how a frame feels, this is why steel rides nicer than aluminum. And steel can get away with smaller tubes because of it's fatigue resistance whereas ti cannot. Interestingly ti is weaker than aluminum so to make it work for a bike frame they add aluminum to it. I'm not sure how much but it may not be hard to find that out.

    • @bonbonflippers4298
      @bonbonflippers4298 10 месяцев назад +1

      I did an experiment on this with every component the same including frame geometry on 2 bikes: Titanium and steel.
      As a test I used the exact same tires/psi and wheelset. To make it as uncomfortable as possible I used continental gatorskins at 100psi 25c on aluminum wheels with 17internal.
      The Titanium bike both rode smoother and stiffer than the steel. Both frames were custom built to exact specs as close as possible. The steel was customized in every tubing used. The Titanium was limited to certain butting.
      So in science yes the tires, wheels and psi make the ride not the material. But my testing of over 1k miles each...beg to differ.