Coco and Kson - The Price of Reincarnation
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
- Kson's content creating journey has been a wild one. Filled with joys, and sorrows, and anguish alike. Despite all of that, however, she rose to the top and made a name for herself... but what did it cost?
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She really broke down the doors, dipped out and then is now living her best life just chilling yet still working hard.
So she's basically the VTuber version of Pewdiepie.
@@Doomwolf82002 Yep.
@@Doomwolf82002 except she's not a nazi like Pewdiepie
@@Doomwolf82002 Downgrade version
no she didnt
KSon will always have my respect. And I've seen some people saying that she's doing less Vtuber work now because she made a lot of money, she's spending time with her family, and living her life. I certainly hope she is happy- she seems like a genuinely good person to be around.
I mean, that should be more than obvious.
Coco was mere means to an end.
And, as soon as that end was met, Coco was dumped.
It's hard to imagine KSON being where she is now, if she didn't came up with Coco.
Are your eyes open yet?
@@dylives7667 I don't think it is that serious- I think it's more likely a case of the girl being worth so much, Cover couldn't afford to pay her what she was worth (or didn't want to)- happens all the time.
@@dylives7667 open to what? did you not realize this like immediately? why are you talking like this is some big secret most people can't see lol?
@@dylives7667 You talk as if it's a secret revelation moment when some people out there realize it a long time ago. It's not that hard.
@@dylives7667 this mf really said "someone who was big before became bigger after and got opportunities, how is no one seeing this!" like... yeah, that's kinda how life works my guy
Coco in 2020 is unforgettable, she made her change in hololive.
She's innovative, so if she feels comfortable, she's comfortable.
She made a change and left soon after. Did what she had to do.
she was my first introduction to hololive and got me into vtubers
But now as Kson she is with VShojo
@@animegod1675 The only vtuber content i watch is clips, only streams I did watch were coco's weekly meme reviews. I miss them lmfao
nothing says falling off like appearing in your favourite game series
If only we can all "fall off" so well
If falling off means appearing in 2 of the most important games of one of the most important companies, I also want to fall off...
Not really a huge flex when they have RUclipsrs voicing the main character. Kson used to be what gura is now (except she streamed)
I was about to say the same thing. Shes more popular than ever. Only people who care about Taiwan thing are hard core mainland commies and haters. Most americans consider Taiwan an independent country and the rest dont even care. Also shes hot and she does loads of fan service. Straight men love her.
@@darkshaman98 Dubbing, if you mean Yong Yeah. I'd say being an actual character ingame is a bigger flex.
She is a rule breaker, to push boundaries she requires boundaries, now she has nothing to push against, so there's no need to.
It's because it's against the platform itself that she needs to break through. But I think she should enjoy what she has done at this moment together with the people she is with at this moment, from time to time the company needs to grow and naturally some big projects will be bound to happen.
This is why I think she did fall off.
Spice isn't interesting unless it contrasts with the norm. Kson is the spice. She's probably happier where she is, which is good, but I think she's fallen off because she no longer provides any contrast.
she's breaking the rule, breaking the world, kowaseeee
@@m.thorton9305Kirisake Tendernesses
@@accusetyour reply and the initial comment are the perfect way to explain it
I was recently in Japan and went to her JP Fan Meet. It was fucking awesome! She really comanded the event! You could definetlly tell a lot of the fans there were Coco fans originally. She was genuinelly happy which was fantastic to see.
Coco will always be a huge inspiration to me when I feel like giving up. She will always be a legend, under any name. No one can take that away.
To you. To a lot of new Vtubing followers, she's nobody. I came in when Myth launched, i know the story, i don't care. She was never my style, she never had an appeal, i didn't care when she graduated. To me and many others, EN success is their own, Coco might have helped, by no more than Sora by starting Hololive with Yagoo and A-chan. By joining VShojo, she vanished. She still got nice achievements, but in hololive that ain't special, they all do. Calli got signed, Gura is the biggest and she doesn't even do shit...
Let's be real, if you didn't follow her as Coco, you don't care, she'll disapear and even if Vtubing lives for 100 years, in 30 years nobody will remember her other than a footnote in history.
@@SeaRaven227 lol
@@brreakfastYT Should have channeled that Coco energy, you gave up exceptionally fast.
why should he answer a schizo, mate?@@SeaRaven227
@@SeaRaven227 lmao chill lil bro
I will say part of it is that the Vtuber landscape has dramatically changed. Where Kiryu Coco in 2020 was groundbreaking, the same humor is tame in the 2023. There are also many talents in the industry pushing the medium further compared to the 2020 and pre-2020 era. With that said, there are very few talents in the industry with the business skills and voice of authority she has. Kson is still changing the industry, just not in the spotlight.
Yeah, it's important to remember that VTuber culture in the early Hololive days was basically the same as Japanese idol culture: even being un-idol-like and breaking rules had a clear limit, and the lim. Kiryu Coco intentionally shattered so many of those limits, violated so many unspoken and even spoken rules, and even her reincarnation was a clear statement that she would not simply cease to exist or be worried about her RL self being connected to either of her VTuber forms.
I remember people being scared that openly connecting the Myth girls to their former Internet personae could cost them their jobs, which is an absurd idea now. Seeing Mikeneko reconnect with her old fans and adopt a recognizable new form is something I can only see happening because of Senchou. She pushed the medium forward in a pro-VTuber, pro-international direction in just two years, and she's still doing it now.
Agreed, back in 2021-22 graduations always be a sad things. But after 23 to this day, fans and audience that loved the talent wonder where they would go and evolve. Also EN and JP is not so different compared to 2020 before. All of them can be integrated easily to every audience around the world now.
she's way too much out of spotlight though. her video viewers are like only 1-2k
@@ThermiteKittylmao what, Hololive was wild before Coco. Like Matsuri, Haachama, Senchou, etc.
It actually got stricter after Coco left
Coco/Kson changed and done so much for the Vtuber industry and its community as a whole. She deserves be called one of the GOATs of Vtubing. Wherever and whatever she does now, you know that she will always bring her signature and contagious energy and happiness.
Coco was the bridge that connected vtubers to the western audience. 2020 was a time period of misfortune but also the birthplace of greatness. All the memories made with her, all the shitposting she did, unforgettable.
Coco was the vtuber that connected west ❤
It was only a time of misfortune because companies keep siding with China who literally hates the Capitalistic world of the West and Hates Japan for siding with that type of economy. Hololive was the one in the wrong here, they punished Coco purely because of the information that Western Websites are allowed to show because we aren't Communists. The only people who have issues with Taiwan existing is the CCP because of a multiple decades long fued of who is the true government of China.
i want those years back.
@@akira8393 i wasn't in the rabbit hole before she graduated, but now i understand how important she was.
So if gura, kiara, calli, ina, ame, kronii, mococo, fuwacoco and all hololive EN is because she worked so hard ? If yes she is literally a legend of vtubing!
@@Gimothecat yes. and she's also the one that establishes jp vshojo. though vshojo don't really have itself a strong foot yet. but hopefully things would reach it.
I'm saying it in enthusiasm despite hating vshojo members.
i miss Coco.but I enjoy Kson the Legendary Dragon. She made me the fan of vtubers i am today.
You can now say that she is "Like A Dragon".
i want the dragon back, take back😂
I was not there when she was coco but the problem is that she doesn't talk English at all... So i can't understand at all
@@Gimothecat she speaks english occasionally but yeah for the most part she speaks japanese
@@akira8393 yeah but it still hard...
Instead of fell off, as you mention on the thumbnail, I would say she settle down. Her core fan didn't leave her. She still as successful as she was. Held a wonderful fan meeting in JP and TW. Applied and won the grand final of like a dragon audition. A hype 3D anniversary concert. A beautiful new outfit. Many YABE streams and more. Although she is not viral, nor in the spotlight as before, she is still well-known, motivative, and positive as always.
This is more under the perspective of people who feel that way about her.
Saying such people don't exist would be disingenuous.
@@dylives7667 Maybe something misunderstanding here. I never said people who have another perspectives than me are not exist.
it's the same where PewDiePie is to me, he's not as great as he was then but his life is better nonetheless.
@@akira8393 Wym? He's retired. He only makes a video here and there for fun rather than content/work.
@@ZehRooKiE what i mean is that PewDiePie isn't pushing hard as he was anymore, like you said he's already retired and pretty much does whatever he wants. that's what i mean with kson
I don't think she "fell off", rather,
1. she joined a company where she was no longer unique in her antics and to ramp it up, dividing her audience
2. She streams in JP when a lot of her fans are English speakers
3. It feels like she doesn't know what she wants to be, a vtuber on RUclips or an IRL twitch streamer.
She wants to be both vtuber and RUclipsr. But it's the audience that can't accept, For many people it seems like it doesn't make sense that vtuber is actually someone with a high-tech mask doing a massive content like youtuber.
i think she is, granted doesn't really matter if you're still doing well.
@@leandroiuki4337 I've accepted the change long ago.
I just decided to move on from her.
@@leandroiuki4337I think you are jumping to conclusions, is not that people can't accept her, is more simple and common that you think
Channels in general lost a lot of viewers when they want to have two different type of content for different viewers, just look at matpat, he has game theory apart from food theory or fashion theory, cause each group want and search for different things,, when poketubers try to play a different game, usually it doesnt work
Heck even Ninja was popular just with Fortnite, besides that nothing else worked for him
Thats what Kson doesnt know, having two channels, could be better, same for her languages one for JP and one for EN, cause putting everything in one channel usually doesn't work, and make people think that you are not as good as before, cause your brand kinda diluted
Imagine is Markiplier suddenly adds story videos+ interviews with his neighborhood+ shorts+ Q&A livestreams+ apex legends and reduce the time for his gameplays or his characters, people will watch just the things they like from him, and ignore the rest
I can't watch her streams as she speaks Japanese 😢
When it comes to kson, in retrospect, I realized that she is the kind of creator who needs to collab with others.
Some of her best moments as Coco, the meme reviews, the pranks, the asacoco, all involved other holomems one way or another.
I don't mean this in a condescending way; some of the most successful entertainers in the world don't do as well solo, but absolutely thrives when they can bounce their personalities and ideas off others.
More so than just "breaking the rules," as noted in the video, she juxtaposed herself with other members for that effect.
That is her strength, and that is how she affected changes.
So, I think this is the main reason why she has not been as successful as before, not because she left Hololive and joined VShojo, but that she now does not have enough peers to collaborate with.
There are only 2 other members in Japan who can actually off-collab with kson, 1 of them has basically soft quit vshojo, and that leaves only Henya; this is a HUGE drop from the wealth of personalities she had access to as Coco, all of whom, by the way, were also successful entertainers in their own right.
Solo kson is like clapping with one hand; you can do it, but its just not as loud as two hands. Solo kson is like a boke without the tsukkomi.
tl;dr, kson main strength is to be able to compound entertainment prowess through fun, innovative collab ideas. By herself, she is not as effective and it shows.
Edit 1/1/2024
Nazuna left VShojo, so yeah, Henya is the ONLY member kson can off collab with now...
_"this is a HUGE drop from the wealth of personalities she had access to as Coco"_
The dropoff was the Taiwan incident. Between then and Coco telling the other members that she was graduating you could count the collabs she had outside of Shitpost Review on your fingers.
it's like calli to me, she's great when you have her collabing with others because on her own she's like my dad dying inside playing video games. it's not even funny at that point, it just feels pathetic
@@ElliotKeaton okay i see the same stuff you're saying from 7-8 months ago. I'm a new hololive fan so all i can say is to give my deep respects to kson with what she did to the vtuber scene im general. But damn though I admire your conviction to not move on lmao. the taiwan incident is a forever stain in Cover Corp's legacy but... oh well if it helps you sleep at night you do you i guess.
@@cucumbermainline _"But damn though I admire your conviction to not move on lmao."_
It's not any different from the people who still hold a blood oath against VShojo for what they did to Nux.
I remember watching your Kiryu Coco video about her story, it shed a lot of light in how much impact she made and honestly while seeing all the bad that occurred she still manages to shine even brighter, her KSon streams than I visit from time to time showed me how humble and friendly she is...
Thank you the video DN, and I wish you a hopeful year ahead! Thank you for your hard work this year!
What is a DN
@@EdyAlbertoMSGT3 Oh y'know, just the guy that made this video
DN - Depressed Nousagi
Despite being the same person I see both as objectively different products, as you said Coco was a rebel within her agency and a great counterpart to all other talent, that was her thing, Kson is just herself, an extension of her passions and loves like Yakuza or Gunpla, her model is just a platform for her to engage her japanese audience, I would even say her western fans care very little about her vtubing side and are mostly invested in her as a person and her Irl content
I know Coco even if i was not there when she was still here but i'm wondering, i tried to watch some kson's stream but she doesn't speak English, is it normal?
idc what she has real or new modle, but if i was honest with myself id want the dragon back ; ;
I have always followed Kson. Doesn't matter if she's in Hololive, Indie or Vshojo.
There is nobody that knows Kson better then herself. So I will respect her choices, if she think it's the best way for her, I say go for it. Most what we can do as a fan is to be happy for her, happy that after ALL the crap that China and Taiwan has done, she still is able to smile as Kson. Happy that people like Mousey, Melody, Zen, Froot, everyone at Vshojo welcomed her with open arms. Happy that she's accepted for who she is, even if she is the kind of person to look up the boundaries that is acceptable.
I love Kson 💛
If only SIMPing was a job.
I understand the sentiment and I agree, but respectfully, you doin tricks on it bro
As a previously massive fan of Coco, I do agree with many of the points here. She was the first Vtuber that introduced me to Vtubers, and although I wish nothing but the best for her now that she has a new name and platform, I personally couldn't continue watching her often. When she was in Holo she was a breath of fresh air, and often contrasted really well with the others in Holo that were uptight and 'proper'. Now that she is in Vshojo, where everyone is that type, there is no contrast or flare. I don't have anything against Vshojo and I hope she can continue to have a good career there, but as another comment expertly put it, now that she has no barrier to push against, her content doesn't have the same charm to it.
yeah like i still watch her from time to time, but not nearly as much as i did in 2020 when she was coco. I dont do it intentionally, it just feels weird to me you know? its kinda hard to explain
@@animegod1675 Feel the exact same way mate. When I do occasionally view her streams I can tell she is having fun and that coco is still alive, but other than contentment I do not ever feel like becoming a regular fan again.
Guess I'm "lucky" that she graduated before I found hololive. I regretted not being able to catch her while she was still Coco and I was so happy to find out she was still streaming, even if under a different name.
Its just because the time has changed. Back when she was Kiryu Coco, vtuber was pretty much a new thing. Now, almost everything has been done and every boundaries has been pushed.
Thanks for another great video DN! Hope the results of your personal projects comes to fruition in the upcoming year. See you next time my brother and take care!
Taiwan is a real, independent country.
According to the US... and no one else of relevance.
Soon to be absolutely no one of relevance.
She did fell from the top of the vtubing industry. But she landed pretty well compared to others and is doing more than fine for herself.
true.
Being half way between an English and Japanese vtuber is chocking her success, it is objectively a niche, and it's already within a niche. She doesn't care though.
THIS is the important fact "she doesnt care", but not in a derogatory way... not saying you're saying it that way, just many people in the comment are more or less lamenting Kson isnt AS viral and influential as Coco was... when I think that was never the point. Coco went to sleep not only for the all the hate campaing upon her, but because she wanted to enjoy what she does, and the restrictions in Hololive (as much as I like them, a corpo in on itself is restrictive AF) werent something she wanted to deal with anymore. She didnt want to EXPLODE in popularity or anything. She wanted to keep loving what she does... and I think in that regard she is doing perfectly fine.
I like how even until today Hololive talents show their respect for her
JP, ID, EN, CN
All four branches can stream in balance, but everyting change when the Chinesse nation attacked
Nijisanji did faq all to defend their talents and they have been losing them every few months.
West Taiwan really is the worst.
Honestly, no matter where she goes, she’s always so happy it’s infectious, and I’ll always keep supporting her!
I'm jealous of you, i really do
Haven't cried in a long time, thanks for the wonderful and nuanced video😭
Taiwan Is a country
2020 Coco was an unforgettable experience. A shame that new vtuber enjoyers wont be able to experience that era again. Though reincarnated, it doesnt really hit the same. Nevertheless, I still enjoy watching her just not to the same degree.
"Reincarnated."
As soon as I entered The Rabbit Hole, found out that KSON has been there since day 1.
Coco was the side gig.
Which means that Coco was mere means to an end. The plan b, if you may.
KSON was already making a name for herself on the cosplay scene, and was starting to make connections in the japanese gaming industry.
Then the pandemic hit, and that's when Coco was born.
The plot thickens.
@@dylives7667 The more of your comments I see on this video, the more clear it becomes that you are a legitimate schizo off your meds. I thought you were joking or trolling, but now it's just sad and concerning...
The closest thing to Coco experience was Misora Hina in the Hispanic VTuber scene. I dare to say that that era literally obliterated the WHOLE Hispanic VTuber scene in a way that is almost impossible that Hololive/Holostars and Nijisanji are still unable to catch on that fanbase.
@@dylives7667 even then, I think Coco was more pronounced than Kson was, particularly because she had others to bounce off of.
That's a problem I understood when watching Kson solo both prior to and after holo
@@Eliotime3000also Hizuki Miu, the first vtuber to care for spanish speaking audiences,
sometimes we forget that vtubing/streaming is just another form of entertainment industry. trends will come by and go.. views/audience will also come and go. the most important here is the stability. her graduation and joining vshojo imo is the best thing that could happen for her stability and we can clearly saw how it goes. as for her legacy, it is inevitable that it will fell off just because something's "changed" and change is bound to happen because if not, then everything will just become dull.
i guess, i dunno. gura left for a while and still stays strong despite of it. maybe that's just me. for kson, i dunno if it's really helping when the members there are doing some issues themselves. 😂 most of things kson achieves is really by herself it seems. even her anniversary concert looks better than the vshojo concert🤣
in the end, it's the internet really, things come and go. people change overtime. it sucks but i guess maybe it's for the better.
i honestly prefer it to be dull now because the change that happens in content creators is just too sad that i prefer them not to change ever. but hey, there's nothing i can do
@@akira8393gura is gura, she has changed named and identity thrice and she always somehow manages to become big in that little side of the world
She is not the norm she is pretty much an anomaly, and yeah she somehow always manages to remain relevant she sometimes dips in popularity only to return stronger
Well damn I had no idea about her past. I just liked her because of “Kson.” You can tell she’s lively and has a lot of variety in her streams even completely behind her avatar.
I got even more respect for her now.
Vshojo and hololive feel like homes, homes that accept you after you have done your purpose well in another company, being treated well (unless you're in niji -_-) and graduating (going from the company), and one last thing to mention: whenever someone graduates, don't be sad that it's over, be happy it happened
Coco was the goat. I tried to watch Kson but it's not the same. She may have flamed out quickly but she was a legend and I hope one day she aims for the top again.
for that to happened it would take kson to be like coco again.but then again I'm even she can't replicate the magic anymore
I dont think she wants that tho anymore shes like what pewdiepie is now a person who just does what ever the fuck they want because their legacy and status are set in stone and are in the tier of Greatest RUclipsrs/Streamers of All Time
Statistics wise from viewership and earnings she fell off a cliff. Coco (although we dont know how much of that Cover took) used to be one of the highest earning youtubers out there. Falling off does not mean you can't be still sucessful as she still is. She achieved a couple of her most charished goals after leaving hololive and i am happy for her. She also is free to do whatever she wants now.
I saw Kson live at a convention earlier this year. At the time, I was just amazed to get to meet a big, well-known VTuber. I had no idea everything she had been through, and everything it took to get to this point. I admired her before, my my respect for her as a person has grown immensely knowing all this.
To me, coco always shined best because she was able to take advantage of the very specific context of Hololive as it existed circa 2020-2021. She was a bridge to the english audience, she was able to push the rules and social norms of cover corp without spilling over into anything distasteful, and she had excellent chemistry with all of hololive's cast of characters at the time. It was the very specific fusion of creator and character that made something special. When you took away that context and just threw her into the ocean of the internet at large, you lost something essential.
can't say i disagree
I'll never forget Coco. Being there before Gen 4 and witnessing it all up to her graduation was like the epitome of "you had to be there to experience it", we watched this one dragon come into this not unknown but not yet worldwide community and completely change it in just every way and it was fucking magical.
The so call "fall off" is not her issue, she is still banned from collaborating with other Japanese content creators which made her hard to achieve more
I had no clue kiryu Coco and kason were the same person, now i respect Kson even more
Honestly, she does what she likes, and she seems very content where she is at. I don't see anything wrong with that. Can't go chasing numbers and lose all passion like many content creators are nowadays.
The Orange Dragon has always been my first and best Oshi, however, Kson doesn't have the appeal as before but it doesnt mean I think she'd fallen off.
She's free, happy and successful. I may not watch her anymore, I'm still happy she's happier where she stands.
I think the primary reason why KSon feels different is the collabs with people I sincerely don't like, her sense of humor no longer having the same energy, and the move from RUclips to Twitch.
another being that she isnt like coco to me. coco was awesome because no was like her at the time. nowadays everyone is like her that makes even ollie seem normal😂.
you add her to vshojo and it's not gonna do anything because everyone is just as nuts or stupider and that's just instantly lose the battle. at least she's doing well. I'm happy for that
@@akira8393 to me the primary issue is that her activity is now mostly on Twitch. I literally need to get something out of it to open Twitch at all. I detest that platform.
@@SergioLeonardoCornejo i dont really care even the thot meta because i used mostly holodex. that's the only platform that works just like how i wanted
coco hasnt fallen off for me. i just cant understand japanese
I would argue she did "fall off" to the extent that she doesn't stand out or make waves the way she used to. She's just sort of settled into becoming just one of VShojo. Appearing more like a retired legend than one still in the game. Her accomplishments as Coco are monumental, to be sure, but the fact remains she hasn't accomplished much aside from that Yakuza cameo as Kson. Which isn't as much of a broader accomplishment in the community as what she did before. Now she's just kind of there.
But who knows, maybe she likes it better that way. Some would rather just do their own thing than stand out too much.
it's like PewDiePie to me, it's just sitting there😂
Until the well dries up, I suppose.
We probably are not getting Coco back coz she knows that once she comes back it would be even more difficult to leave.
or not even stood out as she was because it's rare to even have normal streamers than menheras
Kson will always have a special place in my heart.
a minor note, I remember her saying that her Souchou model being designed by Yaman-sensei being actually an accident - she was talking with him, came up with the idea and look, and he just...did the design, not *actually* being commissioned for it.
For me what matters most is that she is happy with what she does. I have the impression that she is much more satisfied with her content nowadays. Just like that obscure internet historian, that seems much more happy and satisfied now. Especially now that he's started taking better care of himself. If it means there is less content it's made up by being better content. And in the end, don't we all prefer the people we like to BE happy then to make us happy?
i used to think that but not anymore.
I was in Japan for her Fan meeting not too long ago and it was really fun!! It was honestly the time of my life and it's thanks to her I'm playing the Yakuza/Like a Dragon game series. Whether its Kaichou or Souchou, I don't care she's always the best. To say she fell off? Hmmm I don't think you can fall off by appearing in your favorite game series.
If she gets paid or volunteer for appearing in the game then thats good to hear, but if she paid to appear in the game and did not receive an income from the game then thats something.
I entered the rabbit hole that is Vtubing during the time Kiryu Coco was about to exit, so during that time I didn't feel much sadness. Hearing the rumors about her going back to her roots, I quickly subbed to Kson's channel even before her graduation as Coco. I feel she shone brighter than she ever did as an indie because she was unfettered and unrestricted, and I'm still glad I'm following her.
Its crazy that all this happened bc she said something like "i have viewers in taiwan" while reading analytics
I don't personally think she "fell off".
She is now the face of vshojo jp, being part of yakuza series she love l, being called savior of rushia and pikamee career, appear in multiple convention, so she is still doing stuff while being part of vshojo.
But I definitely also thinks that her content feels "stagnant". because she has no limit and boundaries anymore, what she does doesn't feel as special as when she is coco.
At least thats what I think
she fell off. when she in Hololive, she is one of the biggest CCV in the vtuber sphere. but now not much. 3k is HoloID number, its still so much but its not that good which come from one of the best vtuber.
Edit: her avg CCV is 1.1k now.
@@akito_yuki309she appeared in 2 triple A games from one of the most important companies, do you think her income comes only from stream donations? Of course not, she streams because she likes it, she definitely doesn't need the money
@@Johnnymeloveostick with statistic when it comes to up and down.
Do she need money ? probably no if she invest her money.
But do she fell off ? her statistic say so.
she did. it dies long ago
@@akito_yuki309one can argue the Hololive CCV is skewed anyway, especially in JP. The tldr of it is, most JP audience will religiously watch their oshi, and maybe another couple of holomem directly, but would rarely watch another agency's talents because of the loyalty to both that talent and Hololive. You just don't have any western VTuber getting the CCV that the JP Hololive members get because of this phenomenon, because of how diverse the western scene is.
Coco's time in Hololive cannot be reproduced or replicated, and I still miss those days. However, I would not want to put her back in Hololive and deny her everything she's built since then.
i believe you can but to do so takes knowing what works back then. with kson can't even capture it, what odds can anyone else do. I don't want her to be in hololive as well but i would want to go back in those days again.
@@akira8393 i am not exactly coco fan my first hololive tuber i watch was rushia but don't let them go back to that shitheap now that is hololive i don't enjoy hololive anymore now i am more interested in niji and indie tuber.
@@wojakthecrusader1410 i can respect that, i just prefer kiryu coco over kson... i am not really fond much with nijisanji mich if it's not a big event.
I feel like she lost her drive. Her content was at it's best when she did colabs with JP Hololive members, building a bridge between western and JP (meme)culture like few other people ever could.
When she went back to Kson it started strong, but became increasingly irrelevant. She spread herself over several platforms by starting streaming on Twitch, IMO leaving her youtube content neglected - especially in terms of RUclips algorithm. As a long time Coco fan (she's basically the main reason why I fell in the rabbit hole) it makes me sad seeing her viewer numbers lower than Aki's back when she was one the least performing Hololive member. That said, I don't really blame the viewers, because apart from the occasional interesting colabs she has with her friends/colleagues, there's not much going on.
Been a good year DN, looking forward to your personal projects, whatever they may be!
Watch the actual video. That thumbnail and title has a narrative reason.
Stop clickbaiting. We know you love Kson and we know she's striving but the thumbnail is just a low blow to Kson. Plus it's a soft misinformation which is bad for your reputation.
@@cry9438Not sure chief. I added quotation marks in the thumbnail to allude questionability. I think that's enough or do people just take things at face value?
Edit: dumb question. Yeah of course people take things at face value.
nah adding it is clickbait enough@@DepressedNousagi
@@DepressedNousagi true chads remember the thumbnail used to say "She fell off"
@@sonofsueraf real.
God i cried so much when she left hololive, kson is now my ultimate oshi though. I loved her then and as ive gotten older i love her even more! She’s hilarious and hella strong
Hmmmmm....
@@hello-im hm?
@@Erin-ic7se 🐚
As many believe Cover have a lot of restrictions during the time Coco is active, there is several context to know to understand the time better. A lot of these is in fandom wiki and VOD are still up to crosscheck.
• Coco debut into a time when 4 of the members (about 20% active members excluding Stars) was demonetized for unknown reason for 2-3months (Mel, Aki, Haacahama, and Choco). They were trying everything from banning ASMR and installing steel breast plate to 3D model. I won't be surprised if there are very strict and weird rules in place.
• About 2 months before the Taiwan incident, Mio got into major copyright strikes that trigger all members taking down their VOD and likely changes in operation on how they do things and event.
Before the incident, she was not alone making a lot of legendary moments, and most of them pretty free on saying FAQ dispite the "idol" image many associated Hololive with. Also at the time Cover have about 35~60 staff (410+ in 2023 Q3 by IR)
• The Taiwan incident hit late September, that is just 9 months after debut. It is not a long time and give a feel on how fast things happens.
About members distancing from her, She is still in 2020 year end events(*I got this wrong, she is in the rewind, not active in the event) and have a lot of collab later (after CN branch closes), like Meme review collab is all the way until graduation since then. There is a clear period she avoided collab as chat is flooded with bot and Cover have no way to handle it yet. It is not accurate that other members are distancing themselves from her, but rather the harassment problem makes it a burden to collab.
All of these happened during the pandemic on and off lockdown.
Coco did a lot, there is a reason she had the best graduation events. But also there are a lot of details is not perceived by fans coming late, such as Fubuki Miko Korone meme was actually carries before Myth debut.
Or details cleared up late after Coco graduation, such as Nijisanji EN management isn't hype about collab with Hololive members, not necessarily Hololive management distancing them. After all Nijisanji is actually way more popular than many western viewers perceived, no reason for them to deal with a risky agency. (Based on VTA awards shows who are the center of western community)
Hopefully this provide some context to the time.
Didn't the Nijisanji thing happen after she graduated from Hololive?
@@rikterterran3833 Depends on how you see it, after the incident I believe (correct me if I am wrong) direct collab between two agency is rare, partly due to the rapid growth that everyone become super busy, but probably also because Nijisanji probably want to avoid that with their VirtuaReal business in China(started 2019 April).
So we knew more now but that is like years later. And we knew management interfered with Collab from Kiara Pomu Collab being called off (not sure which but...you know)
It is likely not a single factor that causes less Collab between two agencies, but it is not accurate to say Hololive is very restrictive on members' collab and activities.
As shown in this video, which I believe is still the common impression among the EN community, the narrative haven't distinguish between rules to safeguard interests of agency and members, and restrictive policies like not work with something or cannot smoke, don't be Ecchi etc, the idol stuff that Hololive clearly don't have all of them.
"She is still in 2020 year end events"
Remember when every single member of Hololive JP _except Coco_ was invited to the New Year countdown stream.
_"and have a lot of collab later (after CN branch closes),"_
Outside of Shitpost Review, the collabs Coco had between her suspension and her telling the other members that she was graduating could be counted on your fingers.
_"like Meme review collab is all the way until graduation since then."_
Because Coco could promise the guests as many live views as a 3D Live, the complete undivided attention of the entire overseas fanbase in an event that was in large part dedicated to themselves, and a spike in subscriptions to their channel. No one went on Shitpost Review because Coco was there, they went on it because it was the biggest regular event in VTubing.
_"There is a clear period she avoided collab"_
Want to be the first person to back up the claim that _Coco_ was avoiding collabs? Because according to Coco she was always asking for them. This reeks of the "Coco was avoiding EN" cope.
_"as chat is flooded with bot and Cover have no way to handle it yet."_
It's called members-only chat. Nothing was stopping them from using it during a collab.
_"It is not accurate that other members are distancing themselves from her, but rather the harassment problem makes it a burden to collab."_
And so they distanced themselves from her.
@@ElliotKeaton Having seen you in multiple comment sections trying to spread this rrat about the other Holo members supposedly treating Coco badly after her suspension, it's a little crazy how unhinged some of your headcanons sound.
You make Coco sound like a beggar with that section about Meme Review guests.
@@ElliotKeaton Ah, I got it wrong on the year end event, since I just remembered seeing her in it. Coco was shown in the rewind award instead of active in the event.
Also bots buy members to harass, members only chat did not works.
Good you have more to add, I am just providing more context to it and a lot depends on how you see it.
Like "according to Coco she actively asked them" and she aren't getting it because of "members distancing from Coco" is against the viewpoint of this video "members and fans being supportive behind" and actually she do have Collab on meme review. No one knows if they are there just for the view, that's your opinion, and we will never know.
I don't put my opinion on what the intention is as it is likely wrong. Just stating what can be crosschecked.
If you find anything else feel free to add, just interpreting their intentions is not really helpful.
I think she’s in retirement phase just like Himel after defeating the dark lord.
Now she just enjoying her life.
Thanks for the vid, D.Nousagi. Cheers for your 2024 endeavours, hope it doesn't crash and burn like my car earlier this year
Great video D.N. you nailed it and covered the history of Kson
I was thinking about this yesterday, thanks
Cover really learn something from every case they been through, they learn how to do good management and put restriction from coco and aloe, they learn how to manage drama and talent's mental health from younger talent like rushia and haachama, it makes them pretty much a very good company
While I was really sad to see her leave Hololive, especially knowing how many lives she touched and changed there, she's in a far better position now than she was then. This dragon was always setting trends, kicking doors in, and generally pushing the seams of her envelope with whatever she did there. Such a boundless person can only operate with authenticity when she has the least amount of restrictions. But let's not get it twisted, she's not a lewdtuber and doesn't cause drama; there are few souls in the vtubing scene who are as true as she is. Damn, I sound like a simp, but out of all the vtubers I've ever been entertained by, she's been the most unforgettable.
Aside from that, those f*&cking antis deserve whatever Hell is waiting for them at the end of the road.
Hey fellow fallout fans! Remember those "antis" are those chinese commie bot we gotta warned the world before the great 2077 just so you know!
We shall witness 2024 being the Year of the Dragon.
Will miss you dearly, Kiryuu Coco.
She succeeded 3 times: once as a Cosplayer, once as a dragon, and once as a kson...
She's a legend.
One amazing thing for Kson. The voice of Coco cosplaying as Coco.
Oks ty for the vid
Hope we or lets just survive the incoming years
I didn't realise Kson was Coco. Thanks.
great video as always - you fill in a lot of the information/lore that would be lost on newer viewers
Kiryu Coco a true legend in all of Hololive Productions
She is doing fine and doing her own thing. She has done her part and if whatever makes her happy as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, then that is fine.
Even if Kson "fell off", she achieved her dream by appearing in her favorite game and can do anything she wants. Icing on cake is that she's being loved so much in Taiwan.
Her antis' tears must taste really delicious, especially those HoloCN impostors xD
So, you're not denying it.
That's the problem with graduation and reincarnation with vtubers.
its not really anything new, the person behind it is still the same person they were before just in a new suit.
to put it simply: What's the need of a superhero if there was no villain? that's what happened to coco/kson.
there are no villains to fight or problems to solve anymore, there's no limits to break or no boundaries to surpass so she doesn't need to exert as much effort as before.
Coco is and still always be one of the most important figures both in the history of both Vtubing and Hololive, even if nowadays "she" has become less noteworthy. In an era where keeping seiso girl kayfabe up was the norm, she changed rules of the game and showed that viewers not only sought seiso idols but also entertainers. She also brought to attention the fact that there was a market for vtubing outside Japan. Nowadays, being seiso is not the norm (especially outside Japan), and English (and other languages) speaking vtubers can be counted by the thousands, and in lots of places (VShojo being one of such places). I don't think "she" has changed, but in the current context of vtubing she no longer stands out that much.
I don't think it's being unseiso that made her stand out in Hololive-folks like Shion, Matsuri and Marine already stood out because of that. Instead, I'd say it was her unparalleled confidence and willingness to take risks as well as involve the community (both EN and JP) in her various projects.
No one in Hololive used the main subreddit like she did-to this day, no one can replicate the sense of unity she would inspire in the community every time she announced a meme review.
@rikterterran3833
Part of what Coco did wasn't iust typical Unseiso (Double entrende and Horni baiting) of then, but also the crossing the line twice, crude humor jokes and outright black humor skits.
She didn't rely on her Fanservicey character design solely, but also on her personal character as well.
Where during 2020, keeping a degree of mostly seiso behavior was the norm, she instead took the JP Delinquent, mixed with her Yankee (US roots) style of busting into the party with chest puffed and full of confidence, and the style of Humor skits she did mixed both cultures.
Her content of then if done now, in 2023-2024, would be probably just average, many EN Indies do similar kinds of skits, Pippa alone markets herself under part of it alone....
Whereas when she was Coco, her content was the necessary demolition charge to open Vtubing to western audiences, now I can't see what else could she as Kson do, to further expand Mainstream Vtubing.
That in and off itself means her current position is where she's fine, but also where she could go with the current scenario, unless she decided to open her own Agency and try expand things through there, though i don't know how viable and economically wise would this venture be.
non-seiso Japanese idol has been the norm at least a decade before VTuber era.
it's no longer standing out when you have everyone else who just copies one another. even hachaama is pretty tame nowadays compared to other things vtubers have done.
I respect Kson, that graduation stream as Coco will live on in my heart forever
Was vaguely aware of VTubers back in the day but it was Coco's half English and subtitled clips that truly sent me down the rabbit hole.
When she was independent I did manual count and found that her income actually increase because she doesn’t need to pay Cover’s fee. It was very rough just calculating her average donation in her stream vs her old supa minus the fees that associated with it.
That was before she joined vshoujo. Hasn’t follow any streamers in a couple of years now. But I assume she’s doing well.
Edit: yep just redo a rough check signs shows that she still does above average compared other to hololive members on Supa which put her roughly the same or even higher income than hololive top performers on Supa (other incomes excluded)
Super chats are such a small revenue source to be perfectly honest, like ever since coco and rushia left i feel like the talents rarely bring them out, they seem mlre focused on their merch and songs
so basically its equal to a wwe superstar that went freelance
She had the spotlight, and experienced some of the harshest negative consequences from that. It's therefore odd that people are assuming she would want to get that back, or that it would somehow be a failure to not be at the center of everything
Coco taught me that companies really need to be able to protect their talents, specially against bs like the ridiculous Taiwan thing.
And K-son taught me that Vtubers are at their best when they have to abide by rules and restrictions, because just like with retro games those restrictions force the talent to innovate and think outside the box while still following the rules. The reason why K-son is nowhere near as influential as Coco was is precisely because she now has total talent freedom, so all her ideas get put out into the wild unfiltered, instead of having rules helping curate said ideas and making them better.
The only thing Kson has that she didn't have in Hololive is that she's in Yakuza, and big W for her on that.
At the same time, yeah. People go into talks about how companies are too restrictive and that they are stifling the creativity of their talents, but there are genuinely good reasons why restrictions can be good.
As you said, rules help curate any ideas you have and make them better, but too much freedom also tends to result in many choosing to do nothing with that freedom.
They have the freedom of choice, they can choose to do this wacky thing as well, but they have no obligation nor motivation to do it.
Coco repeatedly stated that after the incident management rejected every single project she proposed for reasons that had nothing to do with her proposal no matter how many concessions she made. She spent nine months trying to get _anything_ approved and in the end had to literally beg them to let her do a single episode of AsaCoco Live for her birthday live after announcing her graduation.
Coco decided to graduate in March. The same month she talked about how AsaCoco Live was never going to be allowed to come back. The same month she talked about how management rejected every single thing she proposed to replace it with. The same month Coco talked about how strict Hololive had become to her and in general. The same month Coco started her AsaCoco Live watchalongs.
"bUt rEstRiCTioNs brEeD cREaTivITy!!1!"
What was she supposed to create? She wasn't allowed to.
Thanks Dn ❤
This is a really good vid makes you understand his opinion and some facts that can be proven true. Leaving this comment to have this vid spread. Here’s hoping that you get more people to sub.
I miss Coco every day,she was my first favorite. I was angry when she joined vshojo but at this point im happy if she is free to do what she wants.
i miss her too, she was better than kson
She was the one pushing against boundaries in Hololive in Vshojo she's not even close to some of the other members
She doesn't even feel like she's apart of VSJ. Apart from hanging with Henya that is.
@@NuclearWintr That's the thing. Congratulations to her success in getting in the Yakuza series, but when she was streaming, outside of the first couple months she's not really hung out with the rest of VShojo that I've seen currently. When she was Coco, she was a big proponent of "No male collabs", and that kinda has still followed to her indie and VShojo career. And the VShojo crew collabs with a lot of people, a lot of them guys.
henya is to me that stands out because she's actually not a retard in compared to everyone else😂
Nousagi, mate we all respact your work a lot but remember we also care for you too take care of yourself too and merry christmas man :)
Nice video. Crazy how you pratically put the exact things I was thinking of like 3 days ago into the other video.
Thank you for all you've done this year DN! here's to 2024
Love this woman...
Just a genuinely good person...
And how she went behind management of niji members to still be friends with them...
Eh, I really don't think people understand what 'falling off' actually means. Cuz Kson is still hella big, she's doing what she enjoys, showing up in games she's a fan of, and just enjoying her life. Not everything needs to be a mold breaking super contrasting achievement, sometimes being happy where you are is good enough. Not to mention her joining vshojo made Vshojo JP be floated as an idea and the normalization of a vtuber and RL personality not being exclusive from one another in a corporate space.
Of course she'll never do what Coco did again, but that's life, aaand personally I enjoy just seeing her goof around with her life
I always say Coco was like The Boss from MGS for VTubers.
Kson still has a long road ahead of her))) She will make us happy with a lot of pleasant surprises I believe
Wherever she goes, she is そうちょう.
She is still impacting the industry. Hey joining VShojo is a massive deal for them.
"Legendary for her... *krhm* "creativity"...
Yes...
*watches the butt jiggle*...
I'm sure she's VERY creative... yes...
You did that on purpose, right? :D
I didn't understand the majority of what you were talking about (what the hell is a v-shojo?) but I think what you're saying is that Coco is just going by the name "Kson" now, which is awesome and for providing that info alone it was worth being extremely confused and lost for 13 minutes.
i don't have enough knowledge in the whole chinaxtaiwan subject to comment on that. but juts knowing that she hold her ground for what she believed and push foward aways, kson have my respect. and she is super funny to watch too.
a fact that western fans may not known
She went to TW a few time for event
basically TW fans drown her with foods to the point that she literally become fat
made her has boxes of local snacks in her home
and got a sponsor from local brand about a snack which has the myth of "if place on pc, the pc will never went wrong or fixed itself"
the power of Asian feeding, is nice
I’ve been following KSON since she was streaming out of Atlanta - she seems like a genuinely good/fun person and I’m so happy for her success.
"The Price of Reincarnation" should be some sort of series
Maybe for Graduated Corporate Vtubers, yes
This video kinda just opened up my eyes more. since like, i was (still kind of am) still under those rose tinted glasses i had of coco. idk why i felt the way i do now still but i feel more content with this watching this and thinking about my past thoughts and actions again. granted i probably still will be under those rose tinted glasses for a while but eventually i know ill have to put them away cause shes technically still there in my heart. was a crazy emotional ride for me in truth when it came to everything not only the events but like my own personal stuff too 💀but aye.. im glad to be a lil more.. happier or content idk im mostly just emotion spilling a thiny bit lmao