Saito FA 120R3 Three cylinders of frustration
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2023
- Hello, my dear viewers and subscribers ! This is continuation of my struggle with Saito FA 120R3 radial engine, still being very close to the N.I.B. condition. Frankly, being a rather naive person who believes in justice, I could not even imagine that someone could produce an insufficiently perfect product, while asking for serious money for it. Considering that the modification of the inlet manifold for this engine costs as much as half or a third of it, then one can imagine the feelings of a person who has invested a large substantial amount for a product that does not correspond to the basic ideas about it and must, if he wants to continue to operate it, invest another half or a third of the investment. For me, this is an abstraction, my sense of justice is really violated. Let's leave it on the conscience of the manufacturer. The next video will be about their main competitors. That's the market...
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Very nice looking and sounding engine! I've always liked the Saito!
Thank you very much for your comment ! I like most of their engines, although there are exceptions. Their single-cylinder engines are excellent, reliable and powerful. But with multi cylinders, not everything is so fine, there are clearly "raw", unfinished models. This is especially noticeable in the radial 3-cylinder models. If initially Saito's engineers thought about the features of the distribution of the fuel mixture over the cylinders. I think, many of us wouldn't have to pay big bucks for upgraded fuel inlet manifolds. I have had and still have enough of these motors to give a clear impression. Anyhow, I'll complete my study with FA 120R3, and I'm sure, that all its problems will be resolved.
Thank you and have a nice day !
HI there, it's me again. I'm sorry to see that the problem still persists with this engine. I commented earlier on your video's with the FA120R3 and noted the first problem with fuel distribution. I'm struggling with this engine as well and that's where the Morris Mini Motors intake manifold came in. It ran a bit better as far as cylinder temperature goes but still dropping one or more cylinders. The fuel blend I'm using is 20% Klotz ans 12% nitro. After making sure the the valve clearances are spot on, the correct prop, OS-F plugs and making sure the mixture is as close as possible to optimum, the only thing left is to get the nitro up to 20%. That has been advised by a club member who runs this same engine with no issues. The guy is interested about the problem with my 120R3 and offered me a custom blended 1 liter fuel with 20% Klotz and 20% nitro. I'll make sure to keep you posted on the results.
Thank you for your comment ! Definitely, very interesting ! I'll wait for the results, much appreciated ! Thank you and have a nice day !
That is true, I bought a brand new Saito Fg60R3, it ran it for 20 minutes and after that it never started again. I bought a new carburetor and nothing. I bought a new ignition and nothing. I have spent a lot of money to try this engine to run
but no success, is very disappointed, it is a big investment for an engine. Now it seems I have to buy a new intake. I am going to put this engine in the storage room, very, very disappointed .
Hi, and thank you for your comment ! Definitely, I'm totally agree with you, so huge investment, and again, investment, and again...What is absolutely disappointing - practically no changes in engines behavior. Probably everyone knows this feeling when you find a solution (or it seems to you that you find a solution), and you naturally expect that something will happen and it will be better. Alas, in this case, this is just another deception, built on the desire to correct your first investment. But that was not the case...Complete frustration.
I understand you very well in this case. But, I’m not giving up, and as soon as my hand heals (today my finger unfortunately got caught under the propeller), I’ll take on this engine again, and I’m sure that I can handle it.
Thanks again for your comment and have a nice day!
Hello, i have the same engine and i have the same problem. In order for each cylinder to have the same working conditions /exhaust/ I bought and installed 3 mufflers from the saito FA40 engine. Unfortunately, still no effects /I'm sorry, it works quieter/. I contacted the engine manufacturer and got this reply: Good day!
Thank you for your enquiry. ・Slow needle and main needle might have not adjusted properly.
・If the propeller the user uses is larger than we recommended, engine may
not run properly. ⇒To use propeller that can reach MAX 9,500rpm is recommended. ( For
example : APC 13” x 8” to 14” x 6” )
・Use plug heat so that the plug is energized when idling.
Following is for instruction manual for FA-120R3. (here was a link to the manual)
...so,. practically without solving the problem :(
Best regards -TOM
Thank you very much for your comments and advices ! I think, that with your kind help I found few possible way's. how to eliminate this behavior. For this week I'm already have some plans for work on the bench, but I think, that I'll give some few chances for Saito FA 120R3. At least, will start with more light propeller and will try to adjust again slow needle and HS needle.
Much appreciated for your support !
I stongly agree that the apc 13x8 is the best prop to run this engine..it might be a 20cc engine. But each cylinder is so small..
@@danielhitchens4407 Thank you for your comment ! Definitely, I'll reduce prop's size according to the the engine's manual recommendations. So, we'll see soon, what will happens...
That is a nice thermal camera.
Thank you very much for your comment ! Definitely, it is ! It has 256*192 pix resolution, 25 fps, so it really supports me for quick control the most parts of the engine. I'm still think, that's very useful device in every workshop, at home, as well. Probably, will make some small video review about it. Not an advertising.
I have the FA200R3 and I found that using an onboard glow driver to help - Basically keeping the three glow plugs energised at low to mid throttle settings. I used a Crain Engineering multi cylinder glow driver. I also ended up spending the money on a Morris Mini Motors intake which also helps - However like you said, it is not a cheap solution.
ruclips.net/video/jYSNut-Sy7k/видео.html
Hi, thank you for video provided ! Nice sound, low vibrations - looks like you were able to overcome and fix typical 3 cyl Saito design flaws, great !
I'll continue to work with this engine, having some ideas, how to balance all tree cylinders, without additional purchases.
Thank you for comments, and have a nice day !
Hey mate, I just thought of something.
My little Magnum FS-52AR recently started breathing back through the carburettor. When I pulled it apart I found the intake valve was in fact slightly worn and indeed leaking compression. Is there a chance your number 3 is going out similarly?
Thank you for your comment ! In fact, I'm still don't understand the basics, the physics of that processes. which are leads for such behavior. It could be, of course. I make a several valves checks, all cylinders showing perfect and similar compression. I think, that this problem wasn't occasional, there should be some consequential logic , why engines #1 cyl being the hottest (because of the leanest fuel mix), than #2 with few degrees less (because of a bit richer fuel mix), than #3 cyl, which runs coolest and sometimes is ceased to fire. Fuel mix in it for sure is the richest, because a lot of fuel mix is thriving through its exhaust manifold, which confirmed on the video. Only it's necessary to clarify, why such fuel richness gradation occurred ? Why this things happens exactly in this order #1, #2, #3 ?
another excellent video.Yes it is frustrating that a company sells at a high price a product that does not work perfect. i bought a mmm inlet manifold for my fa120 r3. it cost me 380 australian dollars so i hope it solves this issue. i am being optimistic as i have read very good reviews about the mmm manifold intake. Its a pity i did not read any information about the problems with the radial intake manifolds before i bought one as if i did i wouldnt have bought one. Where are you located in the world ,just curious. i can send you some photos of the new manifold when i recieve it. might help you sort your fa120 out..cheers dave (australia)
Thank you very much for your comment and your kind offer to share new manifold photos. I think, that photos can be easily sent by email, you can find it in section "About" at my channel. Very interesting, how it can influence on engine's operation. I also cooled down my frustration and decide to continue to investigate all possible way's for solving the problem. So, it means, that I'll install lighter prop, will reset all needles & will try to re-adjust it again. In general, of course, it's possible to fry being all time connected to the glow driver. But this means less maneuverers & heavier plane. So, will provide the next attempt next week, right now another engine is being mounted on the bench.
Thank you and have a nice day !
They seem to be abit frustrating these engines..
The mmm manifold did make a good difference on engine running..cylinder 2 was working way better, almost normal..would still load up on long idle, but thats to be expected..i ended up converting to gas cause it used too much fuel on glow..and i like playing with gas engines..
If you have had your fg60r3 manifold apart, you could compare these 2 manifolds..id suggest before getting a mmm manifold go to a machine shop and get the intake manifold machining to be more like the fg60r3 intake..
Just finished a few flights of my fa120r3 gasser..she runs perfectly and its got the stock intake manifold..tried a 14x6 3 blade and performance is slack at 8000rpm..im sticking with a 13x8..all day 2000rpm idle and 8600rpm on the ground .
Thank you a lot for your comments ! Your experience giving to me some kind of believe, that this problem could be solved, and as far as I understand, engine needs to run closer to it's recommendation in manual;. so, no heavy pro's, thorough low and HS needle adjust, etc. No words, I should bypass this limit, so next runs next week will be additionally dedicated to Saito FA 120R3 tuning attempts. Thank you very much for being so supportive !
i have the same problem with an FA 200 R3. Please let me know if you find a solution.
Thank you for your comment ! Currently, I've to postponed some work with this engine, I'm awaiting for some detailed information about potential fuel manifold modification. Hoping, it should happens in a one - two weeks. Please, stay tuned !
No meu Saito Fg R3 eu fiz três orifícios de 4,5mm ,ao redor, e um orifício no centro desta peça 2,5mm , ficou bem aceitável,
Muito obrigado pelas dicas e pelos detalhes na finalização! Ainda vou pensar nas opções possíveis, muito e mais uma vez sinceramente grato, mas meus! Obrigado e tenha um bom dia!
Hello, l have a Saito FA120 R3 with same problem, did you find the solution to fix it? Thank you
Hi, thank you for your question ! Should say, that I've no find the solution yet, but also, I have an idea, how to try to fix it. May be, in one week I'll complete my investigation with Saito FA 120R3 engine. Thank you and have a nice day !
Im sticking with singles or twins.
Hello and thank you very much for your comment ! It is not too late for that - could you please, to wait till tomorrow ? There is something is goin on...!