Thank you so much for bringing in an electric board expert. Love to have his input as to how well these circuits are made and the quality of the circuitry construction.... particularly as to its robustness.
We started these with the idea that it was going to be mostly an assembly comparison, which is why we focused on mass as opposed to chip selection and overvoltage prevention, but it turns out its much more an electronics battle.. we'll adapt to this going forward.
Dang, I loved hearing about the board design itself (and not just the fact it uses a Raspberry Pi!). Love hearing from a subject matter expert about the electronics / design / manufacturing of the PCB itself.
Sorry to disappoint you Jeff, even though they're all nice guys, only David knows what he's talking about...see some of the other comments from actual EEs. Don't believe me? Ask your dad!
I think the analysis is their product. It's what they sell. It's not just inter web content creation, that part is a byproduct mixed with much additional effort, and free..
I love my 48amp Wallbox. Living in upstate NY, I was averaging 207 miles of charge nightly in the middle of winter. This morning, on a hot day, I got 286. This little box really does the job for my Chevy Bolt EUV.
8:44 proximity pilot and control pilot are teh signals that the J1772 interface uses to communicate with the vehicle. How can so-called EV Experts not know such basics?
It's not there "to look at the communication between the vehicle and the wall unit", the small wires from the 25ft cable were literally connected to that connector block before you disassembled it 🤦
I wonder how much the content is being dumbed down for the perceived target audience? For example, the guys spent a lot of time re-explaining that an EVSE isn’t a “charger.” They glossed over or skipped over other interesting attributes such as the gauge of the wires in the cable, instead opting to talk about the weight. Stating the water resistance IP rating or lack thereof would have been handy. On the other hand, the Munro people are tasked with determining how manufacturable something is and whether it has been de-contented as much as possible. How the consumer feels about something is secondary.
It's just "Proximity" and "Control Pilot", proximity pilot is not used in SAE J1772 type 1 connectors, proximity pilot is for type 2 connectors where the cables are detachable. Confusingly, Proximity and Proximity Pilot are two different things. Even manufacturers get it wrong in their labeling, and Wikipedia has it wrong too, very common mistake. PP is to signal the capacity of the detachable cable (e.g. the car and the EVSE may support 32 amps but the cable only supports 16 amps).
I think the analysis is their product. It's what they sell. It's not just for inter-web content creation, that part is a byproduct mixed with much additional effort, and it is free.
Wow, WOW. This 'multi-discipline thinking aloud tear-down content format' is/was more than excellent. Also great for those of us who do not perform so well with a camera stuck in their face (like myself). Way to go. First time you give Phil over at the Ingeneerix channel some competition in this particular part of the design space. Well, IMnsHO (ns for not so). Thanx a bunch, J@n!
I'd like to hear more discussion on why a feature is good or bad. For instance, the plastic mounting bracket was said to be better than some of the stamped steel brackets. Why? My inclination would be to buy a unit with more metal to it. A heavy electrical cable will be hanging from the unit for hopefully a decade or two - and perhaps outside. Might someone not see the cable at night and fall into it - perhaps putting quite a strain on the bracket? Is the mounting bracket sturdy enough if installed on an uneven surface? Is there enough room inside for an average electrician to work? I'd like the charger to be designed with features that help insure that it will be installed properly and hold up to use and abuse.
One for your list: Enphase Bi Directional EV Charger. This allows the car’s battery to be utilized as a backup power supply for the house when the grid is out, instead of a generator. It also works with the homeowner’s PV system. So, instead of selling back excess power to the grid when you have no choice, you can save to battery. Then sell excess power to grid from your battery when the price is better. Very interesting. Thanks for the videos!
They missed the real point that from the electronics point of view, this product was ridiculously over-engineered - a Raspberry Pi, a Texas DSP and two wireless modules is complete overkill for something that could have been implemented perfectly well on something as simple as an ESP32. That's a way bigger factor in cost than things like weight and details of how it's moulded.
I'd say they used COTS parts to reduce development time and cost. I'm sure that in the current market there is limited demand and much competition and it was better to get something out there cheaply and quickly to build a brand and bring in revenue before going back and re-engineering for cost reduction as the prices of competing products come down.
Thanks Mike! Love your channel! DEEEEP knowledge on electrical systems. We are tearing these down to get a good understanding of the home charging systems, we've been asked about them a few times but didn't have the background in what was on the market. We are really trying to get a deeper perspective of what's in the systems before we give opinions on them at this point. There is a lot of behind the scenes commentary .The two wireless modules are a big head scratcher, but we try to figure out the "why" even if the solution doesn't make much sense. Same with the Raspberry Pi... its cool. But is it needed?
The affordable Austrian Go-e charger (at least v1 and v2) actually use Standard ESP32 boards, providing tons of features. v2 and later versions won several tests in Germany. But are not on the US market. So far I know there are only 3-Phase versions.
i have had one of these for two years, worked flawlessly (I use the timer function 99% of the time but on a few occasions have used the override function, which is nice as you can start charging without having to mess with an assigned schedule. Mine is max 32 Amps (I see this one says 48amps). The only issue i had with mine was the very bright light when i first got it, and at some time a software update (you have to apply these manually) enabled this to be switched off. You can also assign a monetary value to charging so you can see how much you've spent and this can be shown over periods of individual charges or particular timescales such as months.(this is shown in the app not on the unit)
When an EVSE board has both PP and CP connections, it also supports Type 2 cables in an untethered configuration. In J1772 cables, the PP is local to the plug, but in Type 2, it is also present on the other side of the cable, the end that is plugged into the EVSE. There it tells the EVSE about the current capabilities of the cable. With J1772, where the cable always is fixed with the EVSE, that functionality obviously is not needed, so only the CP that connects EVSE and car is present.
There is much more circuitry than I expected. Does this unit have enough compute power to assign multiple user accounts, perform billing, select pricing levels, and connect to cloud software via WiFi. I need these features to support multiple users at a condominium building.
8:02 I am in Europe and we have such Pulsar Plus - a huge mess regarding surplus charging cause they claim to work only with 1 smartmeter from carlo gavazzi OR you know what EVCC cause that is your cheap and reliable full solution with lot more features EVCC is a german development to connect most Wallboxes and in particular that Pulsar plus or with any smart meter to check if the solar panels are feeding in to start the charging, but based on your profile like Surplus only or at least x kW when surplus is available or fastest charging speed possible. This evcc can also start a heatpump or any wifi plug . Runs in HomeAssistant, docker image available. And for Growatt owners: EVCC has an option called proxy where it only listens to the communication of growatt hybrid inverter with the smart inverter via modbus. It is just listening and using the data available like the amount that is fed in now. Everything else will be managed from EVCC - opensoure on github or so. Avoid the terrible expensive and rarely available carlo gavazzi smartmeter for over 220€ . We use a eastron 3 phase smartmeter talking to growatt sph 4600 hybrid inverter with evcc as a listener in that communication line which is called proxy mode .
I have the Wallbox Pulsar Plus installed for me by the company that I bought my EV from. I am off-grid and I am suppose to be using the Eco-Smart feature which Wallbox boasts about to fully utilize my solar generated energy, but the EM112 Carlo Gavazzi MID meter which was installed with the Wallbox charger just doesn't work and the charger keeps waiting for green energy to be available even when I have surplus energy from my solar panels. I saw the Eastron SDM230 meter online and it is cheaper than the EM112, but I do not know if it can be connected as a replacement for the EM112 meter. Please, your guide and assistance will be appreciated. Thank you.
I think they're unfamiliar with this approach, which is more common in Europe. It's actually a much better approach than the ring terminals used on the Grizzl-E, which have had some problems in the field, and are also a hassle for hardwiring, because you need the right size ring terminals and the right crimp tools. Whereas this unit can accept bare wires directly for hardwiring.
Hi great video I have the pulsar plus but noticed a crack in the body which has let water in. Now there are no led lights and the wallbox app won't connect but the charging still works ok. Are there spares available for this unit
Thanks for including the cable length. Another thing that is important for buyers to know would be the different current levels supported. At least the fact that this unit supports multiple levels, but does it support all of the commonly available circuit breakers from 15 A to 60 A like the Tesla Wall Connector does?
The Varistors are called Metal Oxide Varistors. They break down momentarily and conduct electricity when the value on the specification of the part Is exceeded. Gas Discharge tubes, are faster, and longer lasting, and do not become boost as they age and are more effective than MOVs. MOVs get electrically noisy after repeated surge control actions by the component and can become so noisy, that the noise can cause microprocessors to malfunction such as the microprocessor managing the operation of this Wall Charger. MOVs are commonly used in surge protection power strips.
I originally just used my dryer outlet in the garage with the Nema mobile cable. Later I added the Tesla wall connector mainly for better aesthetics vs ugly outlet. Tesla one of the cheaper wall connectors vs Ford and others.
So its a $10 relay with some current measuring, attached to a raspberry pi. Not a bad way to spend $1000! In the good old days, we used a cable and switch.
Hi Sandy.. There is a new off road EV with your name on it being built in Scotland.. But, Monros in Scotland are hill over 3,000 ft.. Bit like you high up in your country.
There is a Czech company GWL that sells a PCB a size of a coin, that can do EV charging, and in the kit you get 12V power supply and 16A 250V relay. So you can build the whole EVSE inside the charger handle, IF you have all the safety electronics in your distribution box or socket (RCD, over current protection, over voltage protection).
Naming is the same for dsl and cable modems. The original modem was a digital to analog converter, so data could be sent as audio over a phone line. A cable modem isn't actually a modem it's just a network adapter but it's still called a modem since people know what it is. In EV groups people talk about regen rates and now it related to gas pedal position, of course it's no longer a gas pedal because there is no gas, but it's still called the gas pedal. People will keep calling an EVSE a charger for many years as well, EVSE's on amazon are listed as chargers as well.
Congratulations on this improved Wall Box Connector review. How many were posted before with only the Chemist and ME, who had absolutely no idea of what they were looking at? 3 or 4 ? Special congratulations to David for being patient and not giggling at these "fish out of water" "presenters". He didn't even burst out laughing at the end when the all important critical weight analysis was posted! Seriously, this series is not exactly a showcase of Munro expertise. If Munro made these "insightful presentations" to the various manufacturers of these devices, they would bill Munro for their wasted time. It would be interesting to have found out what the Raspberry Pi was doing in there. I suspect it takes the CAN bus data from the TI processor decodes & translates it, and sends it to the wireless modules (BT & Wi-Fi). The only somewhat "efficient", thing on this device is that the LEDs are all likely linked with a single, one wire serial bus, eliminating the need for a lot of pins and PCB traces from the uC. The hilarious weight measurement and documentation is meaningless, unless it is compared to the weigh of the building or the typical wall's load capacity: i.e. this "charger / powers supply" weighs only 7.01 kg and the typical wall it is mounted to can support well in excess of 1000.00 kG, which makes it far and away superior to one that is 8.56 kG, but woefully inferior to Tesla's 5.75 kG. 🤣
It has the ESP8266/ESP32 form factor but it's actually a ATWILC3000, which means it's just a straight wifi module with linux drivers which connects over SPI.
I'm astonished that it needs a 32 bit MCU *PLUS* a Raspberry PI just to turn on or off an AC supply to the vehicle ! It seems like massive overdesign to me.
Another possibility is billing/payment/credit/discount infrastructure. Eg: at a business destination charger - if you spend x$ purchase you get #KWH charging discounted after purchase.
Wallbox is very likely using that control board across their product line. They offer EVSEs tailored to unique applications, including units for communal garages such as in apartments or condos. Communication features allow the charger to identify the individual vehicle and associate the energy dispensed to the owners residential utility account regardless of which EVSE the owner uses. This also prevents unauthorized use. I have heard, but not seen documentation, that networked Wallbox EVSEs can manage the load drawn from the garage's electrical service. While Munro videos are interesting from a manufacturing perspective they often contain little meaningful information for those who might actually purchase these devices. Yes, this time you did sort of mention ground fault detection, but didn't know what the proximity sense was about . Seriously? The proximity sense wire signals to the unit that the connector is being plugged into or removed from the car's socket. No proximity connection positively disables AC power out of the EVSE. No, that's no special insider knowledge. It's basic stuff any curious consumer could see if they looked. And ring connectors add at least one additional failure point, usually more. Amateur stuff in this video.
Could someone explain why you would need so much compute power such as a raspberry pi vs a MCU. I wouldn't think there is much processing going on other than wifi and bluetooth
You guys s should only call it EVSE as you know what it is and what it does. It is NOT a charger, as you stated. Only a non professional - dummy or someone that does not care about FACTS would call it a charger. With EV's fairly new, let's get the name correct. Great job and all the details.
The worst thing it has atleast the normal Pulsar, is that it has a fuse, when blown you have to solder the board! Btw, why do you say that from the cable hose it comes out a data cable? Dude, that is simply a cable connected to the CP on the board, it is just a resistor.
An aside for comment from Sandy. The Street reported today that China will double their imports of electric vehicles this year. Also greatly increasing importation to Europe. Ford says they won’t be caught flat footed like they were by Japan, then Korea. FWIW
Can you please do a teardown my wife’s pleasuring device and explain, to all, how the electric revolution impacts the (below?) average working man. Thank you
What attracted me to this, is the fact it didn't need an earth wire because of inbuilt circuit protection (I've forgotten the jargon) Great app Lacks a physical button to just go though, which is less convenient, though may suit some as its more secure
You can also call it EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) and the most important you guys forget to say it’s most of these device use off the shelf components. The AC/DC is a module from mean well. Super easy to source and works out of the box. Tesla use discret components to do the same thing except that it’s harder but it’s cheaper. You have complete control of the cost. Same thing of wifi and Bluetooth module. You can buy off the shelf or make your own. That is also harder and make because you have to do FCC testing and more. The AC/DC also require CSA,UL,CE standards etc. Don’t know why you need a PI. I think they use the PI for bigger commercial products and making the smaller one what easier if they use the same parts.
There is absolutely no reason based on the components shown here (made and assembled in China) explaining why this kind of product costs $700. It should cost 4 times less. Maybe just a little more than a UMC. They are so greedy!
these aren't chargers these are EVSE's the charger is on the vehicle.. These are merely connectors there are no power electronics (igbt's) on these units. Calling these chargers adds to consumer confusion.
No, calling it a charger is simplifying for the masses. If it was called a "charge interface safety device" most people would be like "what?". It interfaces by having a power connection from a outside source. If there is an issue with charging it prevents current flow which is the safety part. You don't want some kid putting nails in the plug end and getting fried.
12:34 lol. you are just reviewing a glorified extension cord/adapter. the charger is actually in the car. I don't know why Munro has to spend and look into these wall connectors.
Once again an underwhelming EVSE teardown video. Munro should stick to cars, these wallbox videos are an embarrassment. The Wallbox is generally a good product, but there are issues Munro didn't even realize/cover: 1.) wire sizing and whole diameter for conduit fitting: The wallbox uses a metric M32 hole... unfortunately that is not compatible with standard 3/4" or 1" NPT for any fittings on the market. You have to drill it out to fit your fitting. Drilling the right diameter hole will void the warranty. Pretty stupid for a product for the North American market to not address that. 2.) WIFI strength and WIFI password requirements: The wallbox is super finicky about signal strength (2.4GHz only) and the complexity of your WIFI password in your router. If you have a secure password containing any special characters, you will not get your Wallbox connected. The Pulsar Plus only accepts letters and numbers. Good luck! 3.) App integration and app to charger response times. The App is optically well designed. However the connection to the charger using the WIFI connection to the network goes over their cloud portal. To establish this connection, you will stare at your screen a lot longer than necessary. Half the time the app goes into a wait mode where the colors are faded until the connection is back. You can switch to Bluetooth only, but that only works if your phone does not have internet access OR if you manually force the app in two sub menus to switch to BT. Just simply inconvinient. 4.) Cable is on the stiff side, not as stiff as a Grizzle or Juicebox, but noticeably stiffer compared to a ChargePoint Home. It is also larger diameter. The J1772 connector itself is fully plastic, has no rubber over-molding and looks very cheap comparted to the rest of the unit. This is specifically bad on the 48A version. (The 40A seems to have a better connector). Cable stiffness can be mitigated in cold winter climates (you're welcome Canada) with a cable retractor placed high enough to take the slag of the excess cable length. This significantly improved the handling in the winter. 5.) Pulsar Plus US offers integrated dynamic load balancing with a group of up to 25 Pulsars. This is a very good feature and is not dependent on a subscription! Canbus is used for the communication between the units. Problem here is, that since the Can coms need to be wired as a daisy chain, in addition to the wiring for the 208/240V connection typically a seperate conduit is required for the coms. This makes the install a lot messier than an implementation, that would e.g. be based on WIFI or a Bluetooth mesh group. We have solved this by using a 600V rated twisted pair, that is run within the same conduit as the power (local AHJ allows this specific method). Again, nice feature but not super installation friendly. 5.1.) The stability of the power balancing is OK, but not really great. As soon as one charger has an issue, the master unit detects a communication problem and all chargers go down to 6A/10A charge current as a protection method. This is very very annoying. The software should be smart enough in case of a single or multiple EVSE communication drop to subtract the highest possible charge current from the system maximum amperage rating and continue with the dynamic load balancing for the rest of the chargers that are still communicating. When your lot is full and people can only charge at (6A)1.4kW/(10A)2.4kW, people get frustrated very quickly 5.2.) Wallbox offers a smartmeter (Garlo Gavazzi) for building load dependent charge current control. This is an amazing feature, especially in capacity constraint installations. Unfortunately the software can only be configured that ONE wallbox can be programmed to that feature. Specifically for installations with multiple chargers and the previously dynamic load balancing, it would be amazing to use the smartmeter to also DYNAMICALLY set the max charge current/power setpoint for the group of chargers DEPENDED on the residual capacity of the building service. But no, that is not implemented and its over a year with little to no movement from Wallbox. 6.) Software Update process and update success rate: Once in a while software updates are shown to be available on the app. When trying to deploy the update, in the majority of tries the update fails. There is also a remote update button on the my.wallbox.com management page. This function has never worked for any of our installation. It says it pushes the update, a day later, still the old firmware is shown. The only way the update can be successfully deployed is with the direct Bluetooth communication to each device at a time. This is not a problem for one or two chargers. But for a fleet of chargers, this is not acceptable. 7.) The Wallbox decal centered on the front of the unit looks great in the first year. Chargers that are exposed to direct sunlight (what a surprise these are installed outdoors) start showing uneven surfaces and a bubbling of this film/sticker/decal. Doesn't affect the function, but is not adding to the confidence for long term stability. to summarize this: The wallbox product is still a European product slighly adjusted to the North American market (e.g. power PCB is 2W+GND to accommodate single phase 208/240V J1772 charging in North America. The understanding of the North American installer and applications here are lacking. Software is promising generally but needs improvement for better usability and should be designed with real world applications in mind. It is noticable, that none of the US/Spain base product managers or sales people have ever installed a bunch of their Pulsars themselves and used the features beyond 'just charging one car'.
"Charger" is totally wrong, as is calling the wall wart or wireless pad for a cell phone a "charger'. They are all just power sources. All cell phones have the battery charger built in the phone, as do all BEVs!
When you leave your garage door open the box will do a light show and say, "look at me" in multiple voices and languages. I wonder what the power draw is in standby mode. I guess to turn it off you have to go to the circuit breaker box. The WiFi is for clock sync and to automatically change to daylight savings plus report to the mother processor and the Bluetooth is so you can put an app on your phone and look at it to see what the box is doing at all times of the day.
Great breakdown of Wall box but.........The great unwashed compare charging your car to charging your phone, got to have the right charger for your phone right? Got to have the right connector on for an Apple right? Anderiod well thats different right? and Who ha look at that Ford and GM going for the Tesla plug, the Tesla charger, the Tesla system every ones going Tesla! Tesla were right Tesla are the leader Tesla the standard buy Tesla stock NOW! Good for us shareholders. Tesla were already opening up Supercharger network with Easydock but no harm done in fact the opposite whos not up for a share rise but to the great unwashed this is another VHS / Betamax war and wall boxes for ever will be chargers
@@uosiumen signalling is the core difference. Tesla uses higher bandwidth digital communication, encryption and authentication. While CCS just sends dumb voltage signal.
Wallbox owns the brand Wallbox but is not blocking others from using the term even though it is there legal property. useless discussion regarding charger or not - does not make sense to teach the audience about what is literally the charger or not especially in a company that claims to focus on efficiency. That discussion was useless and can be repeated for every other charger or wallbox as they are called here ,for sure not EVSE. Funny point was that he did not found the words for it and it needed text overlay. Hope see such discussion never again who or what is a charger cause then I want my fasteners back cause this disussion took the attention away from important points.
Thank you so much for bringing in an electric board expert. Love to have his input as to how well these circuits are made and the quality of the circuitry construction.... particularly as to its robustness.
Thanks for watching!
We started these with the idea that it was going to be mostly an assembly comparison, which is why we focused on mass as opposed to chip selection and overvoltage prevention, but it turns out its much more an electronics battle.. we'll adapt to this going forward.
Dang, I loved hearing about the board design itself (and not just the fact it uses a Raspberry Pi!).
Love hearing from a subject matter expert about the electronics / design / manufacturing of the PCB itself.
Thanks for watching, Jeff!
Sorry to disappoint you Jeff, even though they're all nice guys, only David knows what he's talking about...see some of the other comments from actual EEs. Don't believe me? Ask your dad!
The Raspberry Pi king himself is among us!!
I would like to hear more conclusions like, "This is good because...", or this isn't that good, ...", robust, fragile, etc. /2c
I think the analysis is their product.
It's what they sell. It's not just inter web content creation, that part is a byproduct mixed with much additional effort, and free..
I love my 48amp Wallbox. Living in upstate NY, I was averaging 207 miles of charge nightly in the middle of winter. This morning, on a hot day, I got 286. This little box really does the job for my Chevy Bolt EUV.
It's really is an impressive little piece of hardware.
8:44 proximity pilot and control pilot are teh signals that the J1772 interface uses to communicate with the vehicle. How can so-called EV Experts not know such basics?
It's not there "to look at the communication between the vehicle and the wall unit", the small wires from the 25ft cable were literally connected to that connector block before you disassembled it 🤦
These dudes are hacks...
I wonder how much the content is being dumbed down for the perceived target audience? For example, the guys spent a lot of time re-explaining that an EVSE isn’t a “charger.” They glossed over or skipped over other interesting attributes such as the gauge of the wires in the cable, instead opting to talk about the weight. Stating the water resistance IP rating or lack thereof would have been handy.
On the other hand, the Munro people are tasked with determining how manufacturable something is and whether it has been de-contented as much as possible. How the consumer feels about something is secondary.
That was bizarre, it’s the most basic point of these things.
It's just "Proximity" and "Control Pilot", proximity pilot is not used in SAE J1772 type 1 connectors, proximity pilot is for type 2 connectors where the cables are detachable. Confusingly, Proximity and Proximity Pilot are two different things. Even manufacturers get it wrong in their labeling, and Wikipedia has it wrong too, very common mistake. PP is to signal the capacity of the detachable cable (e.g. the car and the EVSE may support 32 amps but the cable only supports 16 amps).
First thing I noticed was the IDE ribbon cable. 😊✅🆗🆒🏆
The “unpopulated programming connector” is a Tag-Connect pogo pin connector. It’s never populated because it’s effectively a PCB mounted receptacle.
I think the analysis is their product.
It's what they sell. It's not just for inter-web content creation, that part is a byproduct mixed with much additional effort, and it is free.
Wow, WOW. This 'multi-discipline thinking aloud tear-down content format' is/was more than excellent. Also great for those of us who do not perform so well with a camera stuck in their face (like myself). Way to go. First time you give Phil over at the Ingeneerix channel some competition in this particular part of the design space. Well, IMnsHO (ns for not so). Thanx a bunch, J@n!
You guys are the best in providing information to the average person. Thank You!👍
I'd like to hear more discussion on why a feature is good or bad. For instance, the plastic mounting bracket was said to be better than some of the stamped steel brackets. Why? My inclination would be to buy a unit with more metal to it. A heavy electrical cable will be hanging from the unit for hopefully a decade or two - and perhaps outside. Might someone not see the cable at night and fall into it - perhaps putting quite a strain on the bracket? Is the mounting bracket sturdy enough if installed on an uneven surface? Is there enough room inside for an average electrician to work? I'd like the charger to be designed with features that help insure that it will be installed properly and hold up to use and abuse.
Have one of these 48amp wall connectors, and I can say, they work great and good customer service.
Something that wasn’t mentioned is that this charger, if hardwired, can be installed on the exterior.
One for your list: Enphase Bi Directional EV Charger. This allows the car’s battery to be utilized as a backup power supply for the house when the grid is out, instead of a generator. It also works with the homeowner’s PV system. So, instead of selling back excess power to the grid when you have no choice, you can save to battery. Then sell excess power to grid from your battery when the price is better. Very interesting. Thanks for the videos!
They missed the real point that from the electronics point of view, this product was ridiculously over-engineered - a Raspberry Pi, a Texas DSP and two wireless modules is complete overkill for something that could have been implemented perfectly well on something as simple as an ESP32.
That's a way bigger factor in cost than things like weight and details of how it's moulded.
I'd say they used COTS parts to reduce development time and cost. I'm sure that in the current market there is limited demand and much competition and it was better to get something out there cheaply and quickly to build a brand and bring in revenue before going back and re-engineering for cost reduction as the prices of competing products come down.
Thanks Mike! Love your channel! DEEEEP knowledge on electrical systems.
We are tearing these down to get a good understanding of the home charging systems, we've been asked about them a few times but didn't have the background in what was on the market. We are really trying to get a deeper perspective of what's in the systems before we give opinions on them at this point. There is a lot of behind the scenes commentary .The two wireless modules are a big head scratcher, but we try to figure out the "why" even if the solution doesn't make much sense. Same with the Raspberry Pi... its cool. But is it needed?
The affordable Austrian Go-e charger (at least v1 and v2) actually use Standard ESP32 boards, providing tons of features. v2 and later versions won several tests in Germany. But are not on the US market. So far I know there are only 3-Phase versions.
I'll take over engineered over cheapest design/parts as possible anyway.
🙋♂️THANKS ,ANTONIO,JULIAN,DAVE AND THE REST OF THE MUNRO TEAM 👍🤗😎💚💚💚
Have you met any electricians? A plastic wall mount is a great combo with their new impact driver.
Interesting they used Pi CM and dedicated BT and dedicated Wi-Fi modules. Feels like something can be streamlined here.
i have had one of these for two years, worked flawlessly (I use the timer function 99% of the time but on a few occasions have used the override function, which is nice as you can start charging without having to mess with an assigned schedule.
Mine is max 32 Amps (I see this one says 48amps). The only issue i had with mine was the very bright light when i first got it, and at some time a software update (you have to apply these manually) enabled this to be switched off.
You can also assign a monetary value to charging so you can see how much you've spent and this can be shown over periods of individual charges or particular timescales such as months.(this is shown in the app not on the unit)
I had one of those at my rental house and had to warranty it twice. I have a Tesla wall connector and like it much more.
When an EVSE board has both PP and CP connections, it also supports Type 2 cables in an untethered configuration. In J1772 cables, the PP is local to the plug, but in Type 2, it is also present on the other side of the cable, the end that is plugged into the EVSE. There it tells the EVSE about the current capabilities of the cable. With J1772, where the cable always is fixed with the EVSE, that functionality obviously is not needed, so only the CP that connects EVSE and car is present.
There is much more circuitry than I expected. Does this unit have enough compute power to assign multiple user accounts, perform billing, select pricing levels, and connect to cloud software via WiFi. I need these features to support multiple users at a condominium building.
8:02 I am in Europe and we have such Pulsar Plus - a huge mess regarding surplus charging cause they claim to work only with 1 smartmeter from carlo gavazzi
OR you know what EVCC cause that is your cheap and reliable full solution with lot more features
EVCC is a german development to connect most Wallboxes and in particular that Pulsar plus or with any smart meter to check if the solar panels are feeding in to start the charging, but based on your profile like Surplus only or at least x kW when surplus is available or fastest charging speed possible. This evcc can also start a heatpump or any wifi plug . Runs in HomeAssistant, docker image available.
And for Growatt owners: EVCC has an option called proxy where it only listens to the communication of growatt hybrid inverter with the smart inverter via modbus. It is just listening and using the data available like the amount that is fed in now. Everything else will be managed from EVCC - opensoure on github or so.
Avoid the terrible expensive and rarely available carlo gavazzi smartmeter for over 220€ . We use a eastron 3 phase smartmeter talking to growatt sph 4600 hybrid inverter with evcc as a listener in that communication line which is called proxy mode .
EVCC sounds great. Too bad we don't have that in North America.
I have the Wallbox Pulsar Plus installed for me by the company that I bought my EV from.
I am off-grid and I am suppose to be using the Eco-Smart feature which Wallbox boasts about to fully utilize my solar generated energy, but the EM112 Carlo Gavazzi MID meter which was installed with the Wallbox charger just doesn't work and the charger keeps waiting for green energy to be available even when I have surplus energy from my solar panels.
I saw the Eastron SDM230 meter online and it is cheaper than the EM112, but I do not know if it can be connected as a replacement for the EM112 meter.
Please, your guide and assistance will be appreciated. Thank you.
3:57 are you talking about the quality of the ferrules on the cable or the fact they’re using a screw terminal block on the output
I think they're unfamiliar with this approach, which is more common in Europe. It's actually a much better approach than the ring terminals used on the Grizzl-E, which have had some problems in the field, and are also a hassle for hardwiring, because you need the right size ring terminals and the right crimp tools. Whereas this unit can accept bare wires directly for hardwiring.
Hi great video
I have the pulsar plus but noticed a crack in the body which has let water in. Now there are no led lights and the wallbox app won't connect but the charging still works ok. Are there spares available for this unit
The cable linking the 2 PCB's together looks like an IDE ribbon cable used for connecting IDE (Pre-SATA) Hard Disk Drives in PC's 20 years ago.
The electrics dude was a really cool listen.
Thanks for including the cable length. Another thing that is important for buyers to know would be the different current levels supported. At least the fact that this unit supports multiple levels, but does it support all of the commonly available circuit breakers from 15 A to 60 A like the Tesla Wall Connector does?
The Varistors are called Metal Oxide Varistors. They break down momentarily and conduct electricity when the value on the specification of the part
Is exceeded. Gas Discharge tubes, are faster, and longer lasting, and do not become boost as they age and are more effective than MOVs. MOVs get electrically noisy after repeated surge control actions by the component and can become so noisy, that the noise can cause microprocessors to malfunction such as the microprocessor managing the operation of this Wall Charger. MOVs are commonly used in surge protection power strips.
You guys are knocking it out of the park!
Thank you so much!
The control and pilot signals are part of the J1772 standard.
No. CP is, but PP is a Type 2 signal. J1772 has PD, but that is plugcar only and does not extend over the cable to the EVSE.
add a chargehanger to make the perfect setup at home.
I originally just used my dryer outlet in the garage with the Nema mobile cable. Later I added the Tesla wall connector mainly for better aesthetics vs ugly outlet. Tesla one of the cheaper wall connectors vs Ford and others.
Would love to see a teardown of the Emporia EV Charger, I've seen lots of positive reviews of their equipment.
It is a smart contactor.
My request is the Zappi charger from MyEnergi. Appreciate its more of a European market item but would be good to see a teardown by you guys.
LOL, they would be baffled by all the extra safety circuits and the second control line in the cable...
So its a $10 relay with some current measuring, attached to a raspberry pi. Not a bad way to spend $1000! In the good old days, we used a cable and switch.
Hi Sandy.. There is a new off road EV with your name on it being built in Scotland.. But, Monros in Scotland are hill over 3,000 ft.. Bit like you high up in your country.
There is a Czech company GWL that sells a PCB a size of a coin, that can do EV charging, and in the kit you get 12V power supply and 16A 250V relay.
So you can build the whole EVSE inside the charger handle, IF you have all the safety electronics in your distribution box or socket (RCD, over current protection, over voltage protection).
Naming is the same for dsl and cable modems. The original modem was a digital to analog converter, so data could be sent as audio over a phone line. A cable modem isn't actually a modem it's just a network adapter but it's still called a modem since people know what it is. In EV groups people talk about regen rates and now it related to gas pedal position, of course it's no longer a gas pedal because there is no gas, but it's still called the gas pedal. People will keep calling an EVSE a charger for many years as well, EVSE's on amazon are listed as chargers as well.
It looks like somebody found a box from the '90s and "Yajjj, we have a bunch of IDE HDD connectors and cables". :D
Congratulations on this improved Wall Box Connector review. How many were posted before with only the Chemist and ME, who had absolutely no idea of what they were looking at? 3 or 4 ? Special congratulations to David for being patient and not giggling at these "fish out of water" "presenters". He didn't even burst out laughing at the end when the all important critical weight analysis was posted! Seriously, this series is not exactly a showcase of Munro expertise. If Munro made these "insightful presentations" to the various manufacturers of these devices, they would bill Munro for their wasted time.
It would be interesting to have found out what the Raspberry Pi was doing in there. I suspect it takes the CAN bus data from the TI processor decodes & translates it, and sends it to the wireless modules (BT & Wi-Fi). The only somewhat "efficient", thing on this device is that the LEDs are all likely linked with a single, one wire serial bus, eliminating the need for a lot of pins and PCB traces from the uC.
The hilarious weight measurement and documentation is meaningless, unless it is compared to the weigh of the building or the typical wall's load capacity: i.e. this "charger / powers supply" weighs only 7.01 kg and the typical wall it is mounted to can support well in excess of 1000.00 kG, which makes it far and away superior to one that is 8.56 kG, but woefully inferior to Tesla's 5.75 kG. 🤣
What were the wireless modules? ESP32?
It has the ESP8266/ESP32 form factor but it's actually a ATWILC3000, which means it's just a straight wifi module with linux drivers which connects over SPI.
Cost of compnents & assembly?
You may wish to mention that EVSEs also do a GFCI function.
That's basically what he's explaining at 6:10, he just doesn't mention "GFCI"
Please teardown the Webasto 240/20A Turbocord portable EVSE.
Wall connector or outlet. Level 2 charger is on board the car.
I'm astonished that it needs a 32 bit MCU *PLUS* a Raspberry PI just to turn on or off an AC supply to the vehicle ! It seems like massive overdesign to me.
It's WiFi and Bluetooth enabled with web and app access.
@@GregHassler The Wi-fi and bluetooth modules were pointed out. What puzzles me more is why such simple device needs 2 CPUs.
They are clearly deploying building blocks in preparation for 2 way charging
@@mattbrew11 You mean V2G ? You can't do that with a level 1 'charger'. It would need more intelligence in the vehicle's own onboard AC charger unit.
Another possibility is billing/payment/credit/discount infrastructure. Eg: at a business destination charger - if you spend x$ purchase you get #KWH charging discounted after purchase.
Wallbox is very likely using that control board across their product line. They offer EVSEs tailored to unique applications, including units for communal garages such as in apartments or condos. Communication features allow the charger to identify the individual vehicle and associate the energy dispensed to the owners residential utility account regardless of which EVSE the owner uses. This also prevents unauthorized use.
I have heard, but not seen documentation, that networked Wallbox EVSEs can manage the load drawn from the garage's electrical service.
While Munro videos are interesting from a manufacturing perspective they often contain little meaningful information for those who might actually purchase these devices. Yes, this time you did sort of mention ground fault detection, but didn't know what the proximity sense was about . Seriously? The proximity sense wire signals to the unit that the connector is being plugged into or removed from the car's socket. No proximity connection positively disables AC power out of the EVSE. No, that's no special insider knowledge. It's basic stuff any curious consumer could see if they looked. And ring connectors add at least one additional failure point, usually more. Amateur stuff in this video.
No more charger teardown videos? 😞
We are all waiting for the next one
Tear down the Wallbox Qasar 2 DC bidirectional charger please!
5:26: where are you getting 110 volts from a 240 volt device? I’m disappointed.
Could someone explain why you would need so much compute power such as a raspberry pi vs a MCU. I wouldn't think there is much processing going on other than wifi and bluetooth
Would love to see a discussion on that question !
Just keeping it typical and norminal!
You guys s should only call it EVSE as you know what it is and what it does. It is NOT a charger, as you stated. Only a non professional - dummy or someone that does not care about FACTS would call it a charger. With EV's fairly new, let's get the name correct. Great job and all the details.
Yes, they said that in the video. 12:30
@@sjwright2 that's what i said
@@davidws5439 Right. You're saying the same thing.
That was a Typically good review....
(Sorry, it was just "there")
The worst thing it has atleast the normal Pulsar, is that it has a fuse, when blown you have to solder the board! Btw, why do you say that from the cable hose it comes out a data cable? Dude, that is simply a cable connected to the CP on the board, it is just a resistor.
Please add cost of units
I think we can mention market prices. I'll try to add it for the next one.
An aside for comment from Sandy. The Street reported today that China will double their imports of electric vehicles this year. Also greatly increasing importation to Europe. Ford says they won’t be caught flat footed like they were by Japan, then Korea. FWIW
CP and PP ist Tpy2 from Europe
Correct, there is no PP here, just the control pilot. Commonly misunderstood.
Can you please do a teardown my wife’s pleasuring device and explain, to all, how the electric revolution impacts the (below?) average working man. Thank you
Show us mobile app too please.
this will be mute because the usa is moving the the telsa plug
it's too expensive and complex for what it is. Using raspberry is an overkill for this functionality.
What attracted me to this, is the fact it didn't need an earth wire because of inbuilt circuit protection (I've forgotten the jargon)
Great app
Lacks a physical button to just go though, which is less convenient, though may suit some as its more secure
It needs an earth wire
@@edc1569 Maybe it doesn't need a neutral wire...?
@@Jessev741 it doesn't need a neutral, but neither does any other level 2 unit.
You can also call it EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) and the most important you guys forget to say it’s most of these device use off the shelf components. The AC/DC is a module from mean well. Super easy to source and works out of the box. Tesla use discret components to do the same thing except that it’s harder but it’s cheaper. You have complete control of the cost. Same thing of wifi and Bluetooth module. You can buy off the shelf or make your own. That is also harder and make because you have to do FCC testing and more. The AC/DC also require CSA,UL,CE standards etc. Don’t know why you need a PI. I think they use the PI for bigger commercial products and making the smaller one what easier if they use the same parts.
There is absolutely no reason based on the components shown here (made and assembled in China) explaining why this kind of product costs $700. It should cost 4 times less. Maybe just a little more than a UMC. They are so greedy!
these aren't chargers these are EVSE's the charger is on the vehicle.. These are merely connectors there are no power electronics (igbt's) on these units. Calling these chargers adds to consumer confusion.
Yes, they said that in the video. 12:30
No, calling it a charger is simplifying for the masses. If it was called a "charge interface safety device" most people would be like "what?". It interfaces by having a power connection from a outside source. If there is an issue with charging it prevents current flow which is the safety part. You don't want some kid putting nails in the plug end and getting fried.
12:34 lol. you are just reviewing a glorified extension cord/adapter. the charger is actually in the car. I don't know why Munro has to spend and look into these wall connectors.
I'd call this device a "level 1 charge port". 110V at 48 amps is pretty high for most older houses. Many only have 100A service.
It's 220V and that's why there a current adjustment switch; to enable it's use on lower service houses.
Once again an underwhelming EVSE teardown video. Munro should stick to cars, these wallbox videos are an embarrassment.
The Wallbox is generally a good product, but there are issues Munro didn't even realize/cover:
1.) wire sizing and whole diameter for conduit fitting: The wallbox uses a metric M32 hole... unfortunately that is not compatible with standard 3/4" or 1" NPT for any fittings on the market.
You have to drill it out to fit your fitting. Drilling the right diameter hole will void the warranty. Pretty stupid for a product for the North American market to not address that.
2.) WIFI strength and WIFI password requirements: The wallbox is super finicky about signal strength (2.4GHz only) and the complexity of your WIFI password in your router. If you have a secure password containing any special characters, you will not get your Wallbox connected. The Pulsar Plus only accepts letters and numbers. Good luck!
3.) App integration and app to charger response times. The App is optically well designed. However the connection to the charger using the WIFI connection to the network goes over their cloud portal. To establish this connection, you will stare at your screen a lot longer than necessary. Half the time the app goes into a wait mode where the colors are faded until the connection is back.
You can switch to Bluetooth only, but that only works if your phone does not have internet access OR if you manually force the app in two sub menus to switch to BT. Just simply inconvinient.
4.) Cable is on the stiff side, not as stiff as a Grizzle or Juicebox, but noticeably stiffer compared to a ChargePoint Home. It is also larger diameter. The J1772 connector itself is fully plastic, has no rubber over-molding and looks very cheap comparted to the rest of the unit. This is specifically bad on the 48A version. (The 40A seems to have a better connector). Cable stiffness can be mitigated in cold winter climates (you're welcome Canada) with a cable retractor placed high enough to take the slag of the excess cable length. This significantly improved the handling in the winter.
5.) Pulsar Plus US offers integrated dynamic load balancing with a group of up to 25 Pulsars. This is a very good feature and is not dependent on a subscription! Canbus is used for the communication between the units. Problem here is, that since the Can coms need to be wired as a daisy chain, in addition to the wiring for the 208/240V connection typically a seperate conduit is required for the coms. This makes the install a lot messier than an implementation, that would e.g. be based on WIFI or a Bluetooth mesh group. We have solved this by using a 600V rated twisted pair, that is run within the same conduit as the power (local AHJ allows this specific method). Again, nice feature but not super installation friendly.
5.1.) The stability of the power balancing is OK, but not really great. As soon as one charger has an issue, the master unit detects a communication problem and all chargers go down to 6A/10A charge current as a protection method. This is very very annoying. The software should be smart enough in case of a single or multiple EVSE communication drop to subtract the highest possible charge current from the system maximum amperage rating and continue with the dynamic load balancing for the rest of the chargers that are still communicating. When your lot is full and people can only charge at (6A)1.4kW/(10A)2.4kW, people get frustrated very quickly
5.2.) Wallbox offers a smartmeter (Garlo Gavazzi) for building load dependent charge current control. This is an amazing feature, especially in capacity constraint installations. Unfortunately the software can only be configured that ONE wallbox can be programmed to that feature. Specifically for installations with multiple chargers and the previously dynamic load balancing, it would be amazing to use the smartmeter to also DYNAMICALLY set the max charge current/power setpoint for the group of chargers DEPENDED on the residual capacity of the building service. But no, that is not implemented and its over a year with little to no movement from Wallbox.
6.) Software Update process and update success rate: Once in a while software updates are shown to be available on the app. When trying to deploy the update, in the majority of tries the update fails. There is also a remote update button on the my.wallbox.com management page. This function has never worked for any of our installation. It says it pushes the update, a day later, still the old firmware is shown. The only way the update can be successfully deployed is with the direct Bluetooth communication to each device at a time. This is not a problem for one or two chargers. But for a fleet of chargers, this is not acceptable.
7.) The Wallbox decal centered on the front of the unit looks great in the first year. Chargers that are exposed to direct sunlight (what a surprise these are installed outdoors) start showing uneven surfaces and a bubbling of this film/sticker/decal. Doesn't affect the function, but is not adding to the confidence for long term stability.
to summarize this: The wallbox product is still a European product slighly adjusted to the North American market (e.g. power PCB is 2W+GND to accommodate single phase 208/240V J1772 charging in North America. The understanding of the North American installer and applications here are lacking. Software is promising generally but needs improvement for better usability and should be designed with real world applications in mind. It is noticable, that none of the US/Spain base product managers or sales people have ever installed a bunch of their Pulsars themselves and used the features beyond 'just charging one car'.
"Charger" is totally wrong, as is calling the wall wart or wireless pad for a cell phone a "charger'. They are all just power sources. All cell phones have the battery charger built in the phone, as do all BEVs!
Ema 14-50 anyone….?
Charger. A wall box could contain a fire extinguisher or anything else.
It's not a charger though
I don't understand why a plug box needs a full computer inside.
Why does it need Bluetooth, Wi-Fi... To rise it price 10 times.
When you leave your garage door open the box will do a light show and say, "look at me" in multiple voices and languages. I wonder what the power draw is in standby mode. I guess to turn it off you have to go to the circuit breaker box. The WiFi is for clock sync and to automatically change to daylight savings plus report to the mother processor and the Bluetooth is so you can put an app on your phone and look at it to see what the box is doing at all times of the day.
@@timsteinkamp2245 I expect majority of communications done via Wi-Fi, like status display, accounting, cost control, authorization.
Wireless is nice in order to monitor/control charging remotely.
Does it run Doom? 😁
Great breakdown of Wall box but.........The great unwashed compare charging your car to charging your phone, got to have the right charger for your phone right? Got to have the right connector on for an Apple right? Anderiod well thats different right? and Who ha look at that Ford and GM going for the Tesla plug, the Tesla charger, the Tesla system every ones going Tesla! Tesla were right Tesla are the leader Tesla the standard buy Tesla stock NOW! Good for us shareholders. Tesla were already opening up Supercharger network with Easydock but no harm done in fact the opposite whos not up for a share rise but to the great unwashed this is another VHS / Betamax war and wall boxes for ever will be chargers
Why you guys spend time on obsolete charger standard?
Namely, which charger standard?
90% of charging is done on Level 1 and Level 2 EVSE's.
Because signaling will stay the same, difference is in plug at the end of the cable.
@@uosiumen signalling is the core difference. Tesla uses higher bandwidth digital communication, encryption and authentication. While CCS just sends dumb voltage signal.
@@maumas98 NACS uses CCS2 signaling with Tesla plug.
CCS is dead in the US.
What does CSS have to do with Level 1 and Level 2 EVSE's?
Cool, but this is J1772
Wallbox owns the brand Wallbox but is not blocking others from using the term even though it is there legal property.
useless discussion regarding charger or not - does not make sense to teach the audience about what is literally the charger or not especially in a company that claims to focus on efficiency.
That discussion was useless and can be repeated for every other charger or wallbox as they are called here ,for sure not EVSE.
Funny point was that he did not found the words for it and it needed text overlay. Hope see such discussion never again who or what is a charger cause then I want my fasteners back cause this disussion took the attention away from important points.